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Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: KingJoey on November 23, 2011, 08:24 pm

Title: Take that shit to trial
Post by: KingJoey on November 23, 2011, 08:24 pm
While reading the forums I noticed allot of Silk Road users seem too have little if any experience with the legal system and how police operate. So I wanted too share my past experiences with the law and how I was able too combat the system.

My first experience with the justice system came when I was 14 years old. A police officer came too a park I was at and for no reason I ran away. While I was running the police officer caught up with me, tackled me, sprayed me with mace, then he shot me with a tazer and took me too juvi. I was charged with resisting an officer with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer. Its been 11 years but all I remember is me getting my ass kicked by a grown man when I was a kid. I was scared too say the least. My mom and dad have never been part of my life so when it came time too ask for advice I asked my grandparents. I told them I wanted too take the charges too court. But they explained too me that the police had told them that I would risk years in juvi prison if I took this charge too court. That was a blatant lie since I had no record but because my grandparents were law abiding citizens with no past experience with the justice system they bought it hook line and sinker. So I plead out and walked away with guilty pleas on both charges and ultimately I spent 14 months behind bars.

Years later I look back and wish there was someone that I could of asked for better advice, someone that knew from experience how the justice system in America works, but since no one was their I bought into the lies and did the time. While behind bars I made up my mind too forever fight against the police and the justice system as a whole. This has caused me too have warped thinking and I have taken extreme actions against police officers as my own way of retaliation. But all of this could of been avoided if someone would of told me how the justice system works, so I am going too tell you guys what no one told me.

They lie and bullshit too get you to plea out. Since I got my juvi convictions I have had over 10 arrests some felony some misdemeanor and some both. But I was only convicted of 3 misdemeanor out of all those arrests. More than one time I have committed a felony, got caught and beat it in the courts.

One thing I have learned is that police will gauge you right away. They will assess you and how much you know and they will base their actions on that. If you are inexperienced they will bullshit you and tell you that you will get the max time. But if you know your way around they will quickly offer you a plea with a lesser charge.

I have had 3 felony cases that I took to trial and I beat each one without ever going to trial.

The first case was for possession and sales of marijuana. The police told me I was going to serve 5 years in prison and I told them too set a trial date. Then the Friday before trial they said they came up with a video of me selling too an informant but they would give me one last chance to make a deal. They offered to reduce the charges to just possession and intent to distribute but as far as I was concerned a drug charge no matter what was something I couldn't afford. I declined the offer and told them I would be in court Monday. That Sunday I received a special delivery from the US post office: A certified letter that said my case had been dropped. What happened to the video? What about the informant who was going too testify against me? And the 2 vice cops that said they knew I was a drug dealer? I guess it wasn't enough for them too risk a trial. I served no time and never took a plea deal.

The 2nd felony I took too trial was for felony criminal mischief. I crashed through a chain link gate of a business with my car. They had me on camera and the owner claimed I did $2,000 in damage which was a felony. I visited the owner and paid him the $2,000 in cash and told him it was a mistake he was cool about it and said he wasn't interested in pressing charges since he had the money, which was like $1500 over what the actual damage was anyway so he made allot of money off me. Well the state decided too press charges against me anyway. The business owner refused too testify against me and explained that he had a favorable view of me because I owned up to my actions. The state had a video tape of me crashing into the gate and it was clear that I did it. However, I was unwilling to accept a felony conviction for hitting a gate with my car. I told the state to buckle up and get ready for trial. The state then submitted an offer in writing to reduce the felony to the misdemeanor criminal mischief and too give me probation. I saw this as my ticket out. I instantly said im taking this too trial and then I told the judge and the DA at my next court date that I didn't think a jury would convict me and send me too prison when your offer was probation. It was bold of me but ultimately it paid off, the state dropped all charges and I didn't do a day or pay a dollar.

The next case was a recent one just 1 year 6 months old. I got a DUI, felony feeling and eluding, felony wreckless driving, 7 tickets all at once for driving in fractions, refusal too take a breathalyzer and careless driving. I was told I was going too prison for sure this time. But by now that was something I was used too hearing. I hired a lawyer and decided too fight all charges. I definitely did everything they said and it was very risky for me too take these charges too trial but I would rather take a risk then take a felony charge. So I got my defense ready and then refused too even consider the states offers. I got too the point where I was coming into court and the state would say they had a new offer I would say right away im not interested I am going too trial, I didn't even want too hear the offers. I told my lawyer the judge and anyone who would listen that I am taking it too trial because I had a way too beat these charges that was full proof. No one had any idea what that way was and neither did I but I convinced all of them because I got that letter in the mail I had got once before, the trial was canceled just 1 day before it was supposed too start.

What I learned is that I am just as good at lieing as they are and that they arnt equipped too deal with skilled liars and street savy criminals. In fact if they know your street smart and you have a history of beating charges like me they get too a point where they will drop charges easily just because they all want the easy target and there are many easy targets, but not me.

I am not a gangster and if you saw me on the street I bet you would feel like I was a regular person that posed no threat, which is the case. But when the DA tells the judge we are going too give him 10 years unless he takes the plea(your not allowed to speak too the DA yourself so you have too speak too the judge while the DA is listening too communicate too the DA lol), then I say well judge if I am going too get 10 years them I am going to get some money orders because I will need canteen, the DA thinks differently about you. They don't understand why your not afraid, they are confused because their lies arnt working on you. They realize they will have too do work and prove their case as opposed too the standard method of simply lieing in order too get a plea. They become worried that their record of conviction rates will drop and that lower conviction rates by a DA means lower chance of a promotion. They become selfish and think about their careers. Ultimately they come too the conclusion that's its more important too have a high conviction rate and get a promotion then too deal with a street savy middle class white dude that might be able to convince a jury not too convict. They can always just drop the charges and then place the blame on the arresting agency.

I love too look the judge in the eye and tell him that I am a good dude and that the day of my trial this court will be packed and I will have 20 character witnesses too tell the jury about what I do each day for my community. I explain that I have been volunteering for the past 8 years. That respected members of the community need me and they are willing too come too court and fight for me. I explain that a jury isnt going to convict me when the many people I help in the community are on the stand explaining that when the government ignored them and they had no where too turn too that I was the one who tutored their kids and help them in school. That there is a single mom that goes too my church and that her children look up too me and I set a positive example. That the police officers who arrested me made a mistake. The community is hurting and they need as much help as they can get and that me being in jail costs money but me being on the streets makes somethings for some people better. These things are all true but whats not true is that I am innocent of what they say for the most part. But I am able too use everything too build a defense that at best gives the DA a roll of the die chance to convict me. Why bother? Even if I did do it I am a good dude and I do belong on the streets not in prison and any jury would also come too this conclusion.

One of the best things I ever said too the judge was this: A jury has no obligation too convict. Even if the defendant has broken a law the jury still has the right to determine if that law is unjust or if it doesn't apply too this specific case. And thats true, even if you do break the law a jury can still say you are not guilty while simultaneously admitting you broke the law.

My point is dont buy into the bullshit and if your a criminal get ready too network and volunteer in your community and do good. I do good things because I enjoy helping people and because I have guilt for things I have done. I also use those positive actions too escape future prosecutions and it works flawlessly. No lawyer can buy the sympathy of a jury the way a pastor can. No DAs words are stronger than the voice of a young handicap women who explains that I am the one who takes time out of my day too help her and do what the government wont do.
Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: clight on November 23, 2011, 09:08 pm
good post

the part about you feeling guilty for your past actions,

should not be the reason for your volunteer work ect ...

try getting over your mistakes ... move on and volunteer ... and not because it makes you feel good about yourself

More so along the lines of a being a straw ... one so light yet heavy enough to break a camels back

Take Care

Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: gumby on November 23, 2011, 09:30 pm
Cops are scum. Plain and simple.

The stories I have heard from ex cops who left in disgust are terrible.
Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: RapidImprovement on November 24, 2011, 09:03 am
Wow. Powerful. The government is fucked up. They can take some of your income and throw you in jail if you don't pay up. They require you to go to school and to go to school I'm pretty sure ALL public schools require you to be vaccinated and while your getting shots they offer"optional" vaccinations for more $. WTF.

Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: envious on November 24, 2011, 09:36 am
Excellent post! Just because we use drugs DOES NOT MAKE US CRIMINALS! The cops are the ones committing crimes against humanity. Harming other people and ruining lives! They are the scum of the earth. ALWAYS TAKE IT TO THE BOX! Do not give into these fucking cunts and do not let them scare you.
Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: Bob Arctor on November 24, 2011, 11:00 am
too --> to
your --> you're

But seriously, don't drive high on drugs on alcohol. Shit's fucked up, no matter how many old ladies you've helped to cross the road:/
Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: anton on November 24, 2011, 12:11 pm
+1 respect
Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: envious on November 24, 2011, 06:11 pm
Even if he is full of shit, his advice is right. Take it to trial! Alot of times they WILL drop charges because they don't want to go through an expensive trial.
Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: phubaiblues on November 24, 2011, 06:39 pm
Yeah, most people just get sick of waiting, or can't make bail, and since plea bargains are what prosecutor and your lawyer both want, there is a lot of pressure to comply...also, if you're sitting in a county felony tank for any period of time, you just get sick of it, and want to get outside, and prison looses it's threat.  Mostly, it's wealthy people who have the luxury of doing this: one, they can get out on bail...and two, they can get a high-powered lawyer who is willing to fight their case, so prosecutors are way more inclined to thro it out...

But again, you often get offered such a good deal, that will sometimes get your right out of jail, the moment you cop a plea, that most do it: a few years, joint suspended, and probation, compared with sittting in county for months and months, fighting some case, where--if you loose--judge will happily thro the felony time at you, no more probation, strait to pen...that's why people who've already done time have much less fear of the whole thing, but on the other hand, if you already have a record, judge throws a lot more at you...

And every state is different...people who cop a 'probation with prison suspended' plea often end up doing what they call 'life on the installment plan' where you keep getting violated on probation violations, and original beef gets reinstated and you can do year after year down the line, for some penny-ante crime you would have probably beat in the first place.

Best scenario is if they'll drop it to misdemeanor, and give you time served, but that's not always possible...if you have money, get a lawyer, and tell him up front you want to fight it...

Better yet, have an ongoing good relationship with a bondsman, so your first money is spent just getting the fuck out of the cage, as we don't think straight, locked up, and often think we will 'quit dope and get our lives together anyway' so we take probation, go back to dope, and then start doing serious time, as it's easy to violate you, once you are in system...

Some of us, we get cracked, do 'all fucking day', with the new laws: so many states now have habitual offender laws which take all the fun out of having a couple felonies already stacked up, might as well 'hold court in the streets' as play by the rules...fortunately I'm a nice boy, it's my evil brother that taught me all this....
Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: KingJoey on December 04, 2011, 06:25 am
The police did not have audio or video. But as the trial date got closer they claimed they did. And unfortunately for me everything I said was true.
Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: angelbunny on December 06, 2011, 06:35 am
As someone who has been in multiple court cases since I was young (nothing drug related, thank god), I was only guilty once and it was for a speeding ticket. I could have taken the time and escalated the issue. The officer lied his ass off and I had proof, but I decided to pay the $240 or whatever it was, because I didn't want to spend months dealing with such shit.

As such, the best advice I can give, is that 'fighting for your right as an American citizen' translates out to 'fighting for your rights in court', not physical. It doesn't matter how law abiding you are (or lack thereof). You should always pick a fight through the courts. I make roughly $100 an hour, and I still take the time. There really is no excuse. It doesn't matter how much evidence they say they have, or what they say, for that matter. If they pick a fight, talk to a lawyer.

The first lesson is to never admit guilt. From a legal stand point saying something as simple as, "I'm sorry!" in response to calm someone down is admitting guilt. Technically, the best advice is 'don't talk to the police', but that is often misunderstood. Small talk is fine, and honestly I recommend it, because that way you come off as an intelligent person that knows their shit, instead of someone who is too paranoid to talk to a cop. However, the second they start saying things like, "Why would you ever do that?" Then it is best to pull the ignorant card and clam up.

Another piece of advice most people do not realize, is when they are in legal trouble and can not afford legal council, or do not think it is worth their time, they ask for advice/help from friends, family, and even the officers trying to lock them up. The truth of the matter is you can get legal advice without paying a penny. All you have to do is find a lawyer under the subject you're being tried under. For example, if you get a speeding ticket, then go to a traffic lawyer. Tell them your story, and then ask them what options you have. From there they will 'pitch' to you what you can do to fight the given situation. You can go to as many lawyers as you have time and get advice from them all the same way. You do not have to accept their legal council after you waist their time. I know it sounds dickish, and perhaps it is, but court is no laughing matter. Treat lawyers like consultants. They will tell you how you can get help. From there you can do the research on your own and put two and two together. This is an obvious mistake KingJoey has made. At a young age if he would have looked into legal council he wouldn't have spent time behind bars.

Officers lie all the time. They lie about everything, and it is in their best interest to do so. In a sense they are more slimy than the people they are putting away. If they say they have a video recording of you doing something illegal, then file for a discovery of that evidence. What this means is they have to legally show you the evidence they have before court, and if they do not if you file properly in a legal manner, and then bring the evidence to court, that evidence can be thrown out, because they refused to show it to you ahead of time. So what I mean is, don't believe what they say. Let them backup their own words with their actions before believing them.

KingJoey mentions one of the best recommendations above, that most people overlook, which is officers judge you based on your ignorance. If you play dumb they will go out of their way to fuck you over. If you play hardball, they most likely will see that as a challenge and it could give them more of an excuse to lie in court. However, if you know the legal code of the law they are planning on citing you with you can twist those words in a normal positive, and peaceful comment, that lets them know you know the legal code and makes them back away. Also, if you're willing to argue with them with things like, "How could you say that!?" which are not to rude and hopefully not to argumentative, it will show them you are willing to fight in court. Officers have a sort of quota and one of the factors in that is how many cases they lose. If they lose too many cases then they could be fired, have lower pay, be passed up on a promotion, or whatever. So, if you show that you're not negative, but you know the law, or are willing to fight their charges, they will often back off. Here is an example:

I was pulled over by highway patrol at 3am in the morning going down the freeway at roughly 80mph. The officer was going 70mph. When he pulled me over he said, "You nearly blew my doors off!" I paused for a split second then looked at him bewildered and said, "No sir. I was behind you for quite some time on the road. It took roughly 6 seconds for me to pass you ... you where going 65mph? At 5 seconds is that is a little over 68mph approximately? (Not admitting guilt if it is a question.) I feel that I was driving safe on the road at the flow of traffic and have not..." at this point he started walking away without saying a word. He did not ask for my license and registration or anything. He just drove off without a word. There was no way in hell he was going to give me a ticket when I basically gave him a speech that any judge would have dismissed the ticket over. From that I had no paperwork and no hassle, because I chose to be both polite and legally smart.

So, if you're planning on breaking the law, find out what the laws are word for word, so you know exactly what they will charge you with and how to avoid evidence or twist that against them as a preemptive strike. It does work and it takes roughly an hour of research, if you know what to look for. Thank you Google!
Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: subtlety on December 07, 2011, 03:26 am

First and foremost, hire a lawyer.  If this is impossible, you're going to have a tough time staying out of jail with your record and current charges.  But anyone who wanted to help you will need some more info than what you posted.

1. Have you signed anything given to you by the cops?
2. I assume you're out on bail? PR? Posting from your Iphone in an 8x8?
3. Your 5th arrest is pending. Is this because you got arrested before your court date? I only ask because that muddies up my previous bail question.  Are both charges pending? Did you refuse a bac or breathalyzer for the DUI. If so, did they take your license on the spot? (guilt is generally assumed if you refuse, at least in some places)
4. 4th arrest, you plead guilty to a possession charge when you were not in possession?!  What evidence did they charge you with?  These questions aren't as important because if you plead guilty, it is a guily charge on your record regardless of the circumstances. The charge will be taken into account when your are sentenced.     
5. Were you a minor when you got your second and third charge? Does differed adjudication keep the charges off your record?
6. I assume you saw a warrant for the raid? Possession is 9/10th's as they say.  You're going to need to be focused on technicalities, procedural errors, and rights violations if their evidence is good.

I've got no legal background, but these are the things that popped into my head reading your post. This is going to be a tough one. A lawyer could find flimsy evidence and maybe keep you out of jail on a plea, or he/she could find a really poor case, fight it, and win. A public defender won't take the time to do this, and you'll have trouble dealing with cops yourself as far as discovery of the evidence in their case (they are dicks, and will try to intimidate you, especially if their case sucks.)

tl,dr:  Hire a lawyer, and good luck.

EDIT: What were the quantities in relation to the three delivery charges?  You don't need to be specific, but are we talking grams or QP's or what?  This is generally taken into account with sentencing.

Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: subtlety on December 07, 2011, 05:10 am
Well, first, please tell me it's not the same lawyer that didn't bother to defend you against a possession charge without an actual possession?  Because if so, you should probably get a different lawyer.  As for the 2nd and 3rd charge, did you finish out your probation without incident?  If not, you're having a serious run of bad luck.  Those charges will go back on your record when you're found in violation of that probation, which will really fuck you.  If that probation was up, then those charges are sealed and cannot be taken into account for future offenses/sentencing (usually; there could be some language in the ruling that doesn't actually make the charges "disappear" but if they told you they would, they probably did. Judges don't tend to lie the way cops do, there's no reason to. They're judges, after all.)  You need to find out if those charges are "sealed" or if it is some special case where the charges can still be entered into court and used by the prosecution to sway sentencing.  "Sealed" and "disappeared" are most likely different things and the distinction could be very important in your case. Law is almost 90% about language.

As for your lawyer issues, it's a matter of course for a busy lawyer to differ all the early parts of a case to his paralegal(s)  Discovery and background info is all busywork that takes time.  In my experience, you're lawyer is going to review everything very close to the court date, bring you in for a meeting, and give you his very expensive opinion on your chances and options.  Lawyers know that the first court date is not so much a deadline, but more of a date to have game plan by.  Any lawyer worth his salt will walk into the courtroom and have the trial date pushed back six months as a matter of course unless you come to an agreement with him that can be settled at the first appearance (ie; plea deal, or guilty plea based on something he works out with the prosecution that you accept.)  Keep this in mind and  the next couple of months will be a little less tense for you.

You can always request a personal meeting with him.  He will not blow you off, unless he doesn't care about your case at all, at which point you have to get a lawyer who does. However, he's not gonna waste your time and his with a meeting until he has something to tell you. One thing you should be able to find out right away is the status of those two "disappeared" charges, because if they can't use them, then you've only got one prior as far as I can tell (what was the weight on that charge?)  If you don't go to court for the DWI/Possession before this case, it can't be used (I think they can bring up the pending charges, but I'm not sure how that will effect your case without a ruling. I think it's only useful for bail hearings.)  It's understandable that you are worried and anxious, but court cases take time and lawyers know this and also that nothing is final until they're standing in front of the judge.

The strength of the case against you is going to be the deciding factor in this whole thing.  Only you're lawyer will be able to give you a best case/worst case. There isn't a lot you can do at this point but wait to see what he finds out. I wish someone could tell you right away that it's a slam dunk in your favor and not to worry, but you're probably not going to find that here.  From what you've said you played it as well as you could during the arrest, now you have to hope the cops fucked up, your lawyer is a genius, or a healthy combination of the two.

Again, I have NO legal background.  I've been charged a couple of times, and have a little experience with understanding how the system works.  Obviously, everything is location specific, and there are any number of other factors to consider that probably only your lawyer could help you with.

Hope it works out for you.


Title: Re: Take that shit to trial
Post by: angelbunny on December 07, 2011, 04:39 pm
When it comes to lawyers never hesitate to shop around! You don't have to stick with the first one you pick. Shop around!

I think of lawyers more as consultants than lawyers. Knowledge is power and in an ideal situation you want to find one that specializes in your particular case and knows the details of that specific area of law inside and out.

Finding a decent lawyer, can be as easy as looking up reviews online. For example, out here I would go on, type in my city, then type in 'drug lawyer' and it will auto do the subcategory of lawyer with the keyword of 'drug' in reviews looking for anyone mentioning a good lawyer that helps out with drugs. Since I've never had a run up with the law regarding drugs I do not know if there is a technical term for those types of lawyers.

Outside of the lawyer details, sometimes ripping a case apart can be as easy as a mistake, like reviewing the warrant. If they typoed on the address all of the evidence they found using that warrant can be thrown out in court.

So you do have options, but some require creativity, and most likely identifying such creativity will require you to do. No matter how good your legal council is, they were not there, and therefor they can not identify small things that could matter in big ways.

Outside of you helping yourself and getting lucky, you're kinda fucked.  :-\ Get a lawyer, and a good one.