Author Topic: Needle in a Haystack  (Read 28072 times)

Dread Pirate Roberts

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Needle in a Haystack
« on: October 28, 2013, 05:53:19 pm »
Lots of you have kindly messaged me recently offering your assistance and some have offered bitcoins to donate to the project and as many of you know I have not accepted funding, I feel others having a financial stake in Silk Road is not beneficial but I digress.

One of the greatest risks we face which we cannot solve as operators is that of network traffic analysis, that is monitoring the traffic through the tor network and over time this will increase the statistical probability of being able to positively identify hidden services and users. Most of the time spent on our security issues is hardening the servers, reducing single points of failure and preventing front-end exploits and these are not usually announced or discussed publicly as to minimize what law enforcement may know of our technical set up, capabilities and staff. To reduce this threat however - we need YOUR help.

The problem of network/traffic analysis is that it cannot be simply "fixed" as a bug would be and our best measure to counteract it is to make the task more difficult, take longer and be more expensive for our adversaries, hopefully dissuading them from the task as spending vast sums of money and man power even for law enforcement is not feasible if it is not considered a reasonably cost-effective operation. This was first put to me as the old problem of finding a needle in a haystack: there is finite space within the network and as you analyze more of it you are reducing the space you know it will definitely be and so you can focus your attentions. With enough time and data, identifying our servers would actually be a trivial task for the NSA which is not an admission I make lightly. As far as threats from law enforcement is concerned we know they are the only organization along with GCHQ capable of mounting an effective assault.

I would like to add that despite all of this what will seem to many as a very dangerous threat against them, it is very unlikely they will undertake such a task against one individual unless your pseudonym is Dread Pirate Roberts. However, for those who ask why does it concern them, it is because if this tactic could possibly unmask people, it can certainly unmask the servers and thus any data you have stored there.



So how can you help?

If we return to the analogy of the needle in the haystack, one could argue to reduce the size of the needle which is a valid point but is a pessimistic view of the situation - I would propose we simply increase the size of the haystack. To increase the size of the network means adding more relays, exits nodes, users, hidden services and bandwidth. By doing this, we are giving law enforcement and our adversaries considerably more work and analysis to do in order to unmask us and I uphold we will never be totally safe from the NSA, but we can certainly put them off by making it far less cost-effective. There are 3 ways anyone can help and also I will clarify Silk Road's position on how we are helping to address the matter ourselves too.

[Home Relays]

In an ideal world, everyone using Tor would act as a relay, but we understand not everybody can. Being a relay or exit node (exit nodes are less suitable on home connections) is as simple as enabling the relaying option on the Vidalia control panel but you may not see much traffic if your relay is not maintained or kept online. Users with small home servers would be ideally placed to host a home relay as it may run 24/7 and provide a highly distributed network.

[VPS/Dedicated Server Relays]

In the old forums astor composed a great guide to setting up your own relay which I will re-post below, but you can find the original post here:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=202510.0

Remember - hosting a relay is not illegal and you have no legal liabilities for Tor content in almost every country although I would still advise asking a lawyer if unsure, therefore you do not actually need to register these anonymously although there are still options mentioned in the guide for anonymous servers or ones which accept bitcoin. Setting a relay on a VPS or dedicated servers allows greater availability, uptime and you don't need to worry over the hardware maintenance. For how little a VPS costs (a few bucks a month) you are making massive contributions to the network. The average user on this forum would only consume a small amount of megabytes per hour they browse so even if you can only provide 10Gb worth of bandwidth a month (less than 5kb/s), you would be a net contributor on the network, although for latency purposes I would recommend relaying only if you can provide 40kb/s+, even just for 1 day.

[Donate to non-profit entities]

Of all 3 - this is least secure way of going about improving the network but for many it is the only realistic option due to lack of technical expertise or legal problems such as a vendor not wanting to have a tor relay tied to his or her name. Some non-profit organizations currently taking bitcoin donations and turning them into more bandwidth are NoiseTor (noisetor.net) and TorServers (torservers.net). If you cannot do either of the above, I would absolutely recommend donating any spare bitcoins to one of these organizations, even if it is just a few cents ($1 = approx 16Gb of bandwidth on typical hosts).

The concern of only donating or relying on a handful of organizations to control a vast amount of the network is that if they become compromised or are complicit with law enforcement, this actually can increase the risk of traffic analysis since they have more data to work from. So, only use this option if the first two are not realistic in your circumstances and you still want to help.



How Silk Road is addressing this matter

Within our new bounties section, it has attracted a lot of attention of my recent post outlining our search for a relay operator who can manage high-bandwidth relays and exit nodes for us. To make this understood, these relays have no connection to the servers which host our forums or the ones which are hosting the market.

What we have taken to is leading by example in this problem though. Although the figures presented by the FBI were heavily distorted (see OzFreelancer's blog: http://allthingsvice.com/2013/10/18/about-this-1-2-billion-crap/), there is no question running Silk Road is an extremely profitable avenue and I think investing a fair sized portion of those profits is a fair way to give back to the community and the network. As a result on the day the market launches (not long now) I will be establishing a Relay Fund to cover the costs of running a cluster of new relays, with $5,000 set aside for the first month which will grow as the market does. This amount I hope will transfer at least several hundred terabytes of data.

Pending further investigation, we are also penning several reimbursement programs and incentives (such as donation matching), both for our own causes (ie Tor relays) and other general charities (Erowid, Lifeboat Association, Archive.org etc).



I hope you all can take the time to join the fight and help me help you for a faster, safer and more diverse network.
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Dread Pirate Roberts

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 05:53:44 pm »
Credits go to astor who originally posted the guide at: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=202510.0



Since people expressed interest in running relays, I've written a guide that can get you set up. There are many ways to run a relay, so for the sake of simplicity, I will focus on virtual private servers running Ubuntu 12.04. Feedback is definitely welcome.

This guide includes instructions for Windows users. I will write Linux instructions in a separate post, and if someone would like to add Mac instructions, I'd greatly appreciate it.


Finding a Hosting Provider

In order to run a relay, you will need a dedicated server or a virtual private server. There are two features you should look for:

1. Geographical location
2. Bandwidth

Other specs like RAM and CPU tend not to matter until the bandwidth gets really high, like on an unmetered server. Most of the time, your bandwidth limits will keep the Tor client well below your RAM and CPU limits.

There is no minimum amount that you need to spend on a server. You can lease a VPS for under $10 a month or a dedicated server for hundreds of dollars. I think every little bit helps, especially if the servers are geographically diverse. For this guide, I'm going to assume you don't want to drop hundreds of dollars on your first server, so we'll focus on setting up a small to medium sized VPS. The price range I'm thinking is $10 - $50 a month, which should give you 512 MB to 1 GB of RAM and 200 GB to 1 TB of bandwidth.

I'm not going to make specific recommendations for hosting providers, for obvious reasons, but most relays are in North America and Europe. It would be nice if we had more relays in South America, Asia and Africa. The infrastructure in Africa is the most underdeveloped, so you may want to focus on finding providers in South America and Asia. They will be more expensive than providers in North America and Europe. If you can't find providers in your price range, it's OK to run a relay in North America and Europe. As I said, every little bit helps.

Another thing to consider when searching for a VPS is that there are different virtualization technologies. These include OpenVZ, Xen, VMWare, Virtuozzo, and KVM. For this guide, I'm going to recommend running your relay in an OpenVZ container, because it is one of the most popular virtualization technologies, it is generally cheaper than the others for the same specs, your operating system will be installed for you by the hosting provider, and the OpenVZ connection limits aren't really a problem with low bandwidth relays. If you want your relay to push more than 1 TB of traffic a month, you should switch to something like Xen or KVM, or a dedicated server.

It's a good idea to read reviews of the hosting provider before ordering, but this can be tricky. There are a lot of fake web sites with shill reviews. In general, well-known forums with large communities (like webhostingtalk.com) are a better place to look for reviews than random web sites.

When you find a provider that you like, look for their Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), which will sometimes be part of their Terms of Service (TOS). Most hosting providers have links to these documents on their main page. Read through them to find out if they ban proxies. If there is no mention of Tor, "proxies" or "open proxies" almost always include Tor. Some hosting providers specifically ban Tor. Some only ban exit nodes. The latter case is OK, because we will be setting up non-exit relays. You don't want to waste time setting up a relay that will be shut down a week later because it violates your hosting provider's AUP.



Ordering a Server

Once you find a hosting provider, you can create an account and order the VPS. I don't see a problem with leasing a VPS with your real identity. There are 4300 relays at the moment. You will be lost in a big crowd. However, you shouldn't mention that you set up a relay in this thread or anywhere else on the forum! You shouldn't use information (like a username) that links you to your Silk Road identity! If you really want anonymity, at the end of this guide there's a section that offers some suggestions, but keep in mind that takes a lot more work.

During the ordering process, you will be asked to choose an operating system. Select Ubuntu Server 12.04, so we can simplify things. Every VPS provider should have an OpenVZ image for that OS. If the VPS has 512 MB of RAM or less, use the 32 bit version. If it has 1 GB or more, use the 64 bit version.

A common box that you have to fill out is the "domain name". You don't need a domain name to order a VPS. You can fill in anything, like example.org. For the server name, put anything you want, it will become the hostname. If it asks for DNS information, just put ns1 and ns2, it doesn't matter.

Also, lease the VPS on a monthly basis for the first few months, even if there are discounts for longer terms. Your VPS may turn out to have crappy networking or frequent reboots, so you don't want to pay for a year of hosting and be forced to abandon the VPS after a month.

After ordering, you'll get an email with the IP address and login details of your VPS.



Configuring the Relay

The first thing we need to do is figure out the RelayBandwidthRate based on the monthly bandwidth limit of the VPS. Keep in mind that most hosting providers count both incoming and outgoing bandwidth, so Tor relay traffic gets counted twice. A VPS that pushes 1 TB of traffic from the perspective of the hosting provider, actually pushes 500 GB of traffic from the perspective of the Tor network (it's the same data, coming and going).

Let's say your VPS is allowed 1 TB of traffic per month. That's 1,000,000 MB. So the rate (per second) that you would use in your Tor configuration is:

1,000,000 / 30 / 24 / 60 / 60 / 2 = 0.192 MB or 192 KB

This is a good place to start. In practice, most relays don't max out their bandwidth. In fact, many relays only use 30-50% of their max bandwidth rate. You can watch the bandwidth of your relay for a few weeks and increase it if you are using much less than your limit. For example, if in the first two weeks it uses 250 GB (and could have used 500 GB, because that's half of your 1 TB per month), then you can double the RelayBandwidthRate. It can take a few weeks of adjusting to find the right balance.

After you get the login information, download PuTTy from the web site:

http://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/latest/x86/putty.exe

This program lets you connect over a protocol called SSH, or Secure Shell, which creates an encrypted connection to a command prompt on the server. Run PuTTy and fill out the following information:

Host name (or IP address): <your VPS IP address>
Port: 22
Connection type: SSH

Before we go any further, click on the words "Default Settings" under "Saved Sessions" and click the Save button to the right of it. That way you don't have to enter the IP address each time.

Then click Open. You'll see a prompt to accept the server's host key, click Yes. You only have do this the first time.

login as: root
password: <what you were given>

Note that you can resize the window if it's too small.

The first thing you should do after logging in is change the root password, especially since it was emailed to you in plaintext. Do that with the following command:

Code: [Select]
passwd


And enter the password twice.

BTW, for all of these commands, you can copy them from this guide and paste them into PuTTy by right-clicking in the command prompt window.

Now type

Code: [Select]
nano /etc/apt/sources.list


Add this line at the end of the file:

Code: [Select]
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org precise main


Enter the following sequence to save the file and exit: ctrl+x, y, enter

Enter the following lines into the command prompt to install Tor and the relay monitor ARM:

Code: [Select]
apt-get update
apt-get install deb.torproject.org-keyring
apt-get update
apt-get install tor tor-arm

Hit Y[enter] whenever it asks you to confirm an action. The first install command will give you a warning because you haven't imported the PGP key for that software repository yet, which is what you're doing with that command.

Now we'll edit the configuration file to turn our Tor client into a relay. First, backup the original configuration file:


Code: [Select]
cp /etc/tor/torrc /etc/tor/torrc.backup


If you screw something up, you can restore Tor to its default state with the following commands:


Code: [Select]
cp /etc/tor/torrc.backup /etc/tor/torrc
service tor restart


Let's edit the configuration file:


Code: [Select]
nano /etc/tor/torrc


Find the following lines and remove the # at the beginning. Anything that follows a # is treated as a comment instead of an instruction to Tor, so we are adding these instructions.


Code: [Select]
ControlPort 9051              # This is a comment that Tor ignores, but everything before the hash is an instruction that Tor reads
CookieAuthentication 1

ORPort 9001                   # Change this to ORPort 443  !!!!

Nickname ididnteditheconfig   # Change ididnteditheconfig to whatever nickname you want, no spaces, nothing drug or SR related

RelayBandwidthRate 100 KB     # Change 100 KB to whatever you calculated for your server earlier
RelayBandwidthBurst 200 KB    # Make this double the value above. If you server is using too much bandwidth, make this the same as the line above

ContactInfo Random Person <nobody AT example dot com>  # Create a throwaway email address and put it here

ExitPolicy reject *:*         # This line makes your relay a non-exit


Then type: ctrl+x, y, enter

Code: [Select]
service tor reload


Congratulations, you're running a relay!

The RelayBandwidthRate and RelayBandwidthBurst are what you will probably want to adjust after a few weeks of watching your relay's bandwidth.

A note about the contact info. You don't need to enter a name. Remove the "Random Person" part entirely. However, you should enter a real email address. The purpose of providing an email address is if your relay is misconfigured, the Tor people can contact you and tell you about it. On the other hand, this email address will appear in your relay's descriptor, which is public, so use an alternate address from any of your main ones.

There is a program called ARM (Anonymous Relay Monitor) that lets you monitor your relay. To run it, type:

Code: [Select]
arm


You can click the left and right arrow keys to see the different panels of info. To exit arm, type: q, q

Another way to view info about your relay is to search for it on https://atlas.torproject.org

Finally, to exit the SSH session, type:

Code: [Select]
exit




Securing Your Server

The following is not necessary, but it's an extremely good idea.

A better way to log in to your server is to create a regular user account, disable root logins, create an SSH key for your regular user, and disable password logins. That makes it virtually impossible for someone to break into your server (people try to hack into servers through SSH all day long).

To create a regular user account, enter this command:

Code: [Select]
adduser <username>


Change <username> to any one-word username you want.

Enter the password for that user twice, and make it different from root's password. Leave the rest of the prompts (like Full Name) blank by hitting enter through them, then hit y at the end.

You can test out your new user. Exit the SH session and launch PuTTy again. Now that you have a regular user, you can add it to the PuTTy configuration so you don't have to type it in every time.

In the configuration window that you get when PuTTy launches, go to Connection -> Data

Auto-login username: <the regular user you created>

Go back to the Session section, highlight "Default Settings", and click Save again. Connect to your server. You should only have to enter the password this time, and of course it will be your regular user's password.

When you login as the regular user, you can't do much outside of your home folder. You can't install or remove software. This is a security feature. You have to become root. In order to do that, type:

Code: [Select]
su


And enter root's password.

To exit being root, type exit, and to completely exit the SSH session, type exit again.

Let's make this even more secure by adding an SSH key.

Download this program and run it:

http://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/latest/x86/puttygen.exe

Next to "Generate a public/private key pair", click Generate. This will take a few minutes. Click around randomly to create entropy and speed it up.

When it's done, it'll say "Public key for pasting into OpenSSH authorized_keys file". Copy the entire thing in the box. Log into your server as the regular user and type this:

Code: [Select]
mkdir .ssh
nano .ssh/authorized_keys

Paste that public key in (by right-clicking once, as before). Then hit ctrl+x, y, enter.

Back in PuTTyGen, enter a key pass phrase and confirm it, then click "Save private key" and save it somewhere on your computer. The pass phrase protects your private key just like with PGP. At this point you can exit out of PuTTyGen.

Now launch PuTTy again, and in the configuration window, go to Connection -> SSH -> Auth.

Find the field that says Private key file for authentication, click Browse and select your private key.

Go back to Session, highlight "Default Settings" and Save.

Connect to your server again. This time it will ask you for the pass phrase to your private key, not the password to the regular user.

If you login successfully, great! You can disable root and password logins. Type:


Code: [Select]
su
nano /etc/ssh/sshd_config


Find these lines:

Code: [Select]
PermitRootLogin yes             # Change it to no

#PasswordAuthentication yes     # Remove the # at the beginning and change it to no

Save and exit with ctrl+x, y, enter.

Restart the SSH server:

Code: [Select]
service ssh restart


Exit completely out and log back in as the regular user. You should login just fine. To test your settings, you can change PuTTy to login as root and it should deny you.

Now think about what an attacker has to do to get into your server. First he has to guess your regular username. Then he has to steal your private key or brute force one that works with your public key. That's like having a 2048 bit password! Then he has to guess root's password. Your server is very secure.



Server Maintenance

You should login in to your server every once in a while and update the software. Login as the regular user, change to root (su), and issue these commands:

Code: [Select]
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade




Purchasing a Server Anonymously

As I said before, I don't think it's necessary, but if you want to get a server anonymously, here are some ideas that may or may not work. Suggestions are definitely welcome. :)


The first thing you need to realize is that the vast majority of hosting providers use fraud detection services, because hackers and spammers love leasing servers anonymously or with stolen credit cards. You almost certainly can't sign up with a hosting provider from a Tor exit node. A popular fraud detection service called MaxMind claims to block VPNs and open proxies too:

https://www.maxmind.com/en/ipauthentication

If you really want to be anonymous, I don't think you should be using a VPN anyway, because you're trusting their word that they don't log, or that LE won't compel them to log in the future. The best way to find a "clean" IP address is to point Tor browser at a web proxy. There are web sites that list thousands of them, but for obvious reasons I won't list them here. You may have try many web proxies before you find one that isn't blocked.

The other issue is payment method. There are a few dozen hosting providers that accept bitcoins, which you could use by anonymizing them your normal way, but all of the ones that I know about are in North America and Europe, which doesn't help the diversity of the Tor network. Again, if you really want to be anonymous, that's fine because a relay in NA or EU is better than no relay.

Other than bitcoins, there are a few potentially anonymous payment methods with fiat currency.

1. Prepaid debit cards
2. e-currency and precious metals exchanges, like Pecunix
3. an anonymous PayPal account

MaxMind claims to block prepaid debit cards:

https://www.maxmind.com/en/ccv_overview

So I don't know if that will work.

As far as e-currency exchanges go, Liberty Reserve is gone, so I don't know what else exists other than Pecunix, but by routing money through several exchanges, you can potentially anonymize it. You'll have to find a hosting provider that takes these payment methods, or cash out to a different payment method.

Also, you might be able to register a PayPal account by pointing Tor Browser at a web proxy, and use fake info that is geographically close to that proxy, then go to Freenode #bitcoin-otc or localbitcoins.com and sell BTC for PayPal credit that gets deposited to your account, then use that to pay for the server.

All of these methods involve some work and a high chance of failure, but you're welcome to try them.
Quote 23: Criticism has plucked the imaginary flower from the chain not so that man may continue to bear the chain without consolation or fantasy but so that he may throw off the chain and cull the living flower.

wholepyo

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 06:41:00 pm »
gotta come back to this when i get the money

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2013, 03:25:29 am »
I'll be following your efforts in this regard closely, and am ready to chip in a few of my BTCs in support of them.
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charas

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2013, 08:53:29 am »

 Hi

  I'm no computer head by any means, but I would love to help anyway I can.
 I would/will set up a home relay, does the speed of connection cause problems?
 My net speed is very slow, less than 0.5 meg my provider tells me that if I lived any further
away from the exchange they would not be able to supply broadband to me.
Would the speed cause a problem with a relay?
Sorry for the dumb question.

C

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2013, 02:51:54 pm »
Will certainly invest when I can.

Surely the concept of putting the needle somewhere the farmer cannot go also makes a good strategy ?

There are countries with more than adequate tech infrastructure where the NSA/GCHQ has no power. Finding the needle in a field you do not own or have any powers to enter would make sense to.

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theb3arjew

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2013, 03:49:37 am »
I have a couple dollars sitting in a wallet I could give someone willing to set up a relay and make the payments.
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2013, 03:31:27 pm »
This is a step in the right direction, but you cant ignore the fact hidden services havent been updated in two years. Even if you cant donate to the tor project directly (and if you could who knows if they would still bother to work on hidden services), but you can commission those interested in working on hidden services to implement their proposed developments.

Growing the network is certainly a good idea but increasing the size of the haystack is a rather burdensome and unrealistic approach when your opponent possesses a high powered magnet and a room-sized x-ray machine.


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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2013, 03:35:18 pm »
Ya, I agree it should be part of a wide strategy.

However, I believe putting the needle where it cannot be touched even if found is smarter, or have lots of needles in similar locations where even if one is found, it cannot be touched, and even IF it can be touched, there is another yet to be found, and while seeking that one, another is already being placed.

We need a hydra ;)
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46andtwo

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2013, 03:57:25 pm »
subbed, going on 'to do' list
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2013, 04:01:07 pm »
Growing the network is certainly a good idea but increasing the size of the haystack is a rather burdensome and unrealistic approach when your opponent possesses a high powered magnet and a room-sized x-ray machine.
I agree that it's very troublesome. At the time of this writing there's about 4,500 tor nodes (exit/relay etc. CLEARNET LINK: https://metrics.torproject.org/network.html) I also know that you can get a cheap VPS with 1 TB bandwidth for around 5$ per month. DPR wrote that for the first month 5,000$ will be set aside to create and maintain these kinds of servers. Say you could spend all those money creating 1,000 x 1 TB tor relays, that would make a relative difference. Only problem is, of course, setting up the 1,000 servers is very time consuming to say the least. You could launch a lot of instances from the same VPS provider, and set up everything automatically, the problem here is the same as donating to the non-profit entities:
Quote
The concern of only donating or relying on a handful of organizations to control a vast amount of the network is that if they become compromised or are complicit with law enforcement, this actually can increase the risk of traffic analysis since they have more data to work from.
Overall I think increasing the network is a good idea, but how to do it quick and efficiently is the challenge here. Also, who wouldn't want faster Tor browsing? :D
You cannot arrest an idea.

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2013, 07:46:50 pm »
I agree that it's very troublesome. At the time of this writing there's about 4,500 tor nodes (exit/relay etc. CLEARNET LINK: https://metrics.torproject.org/network.html) I also know that you can get a cheap VPS with 1 TB bandwidth for around 5$ per month. DPR wrote that for the first month 5,000$ will be set aside to create and maintain these kinds of servers. Say you could spend all those money creating 1,000 x 1 TB tor relays, that would make a relative difference. Only problem is, of course, setting up the 1,000 servers is very time consuming to say the least.

You can get a vps with 1 TB (192KB/s) for 5$. It would be located in europe or north america tho. Would such a server even benefit the tor network in those regions? I have read voices that say no. Some say anything below 1 MB/s for a relay is not really viable (especially in those regions). So, let's assume the cheapest you want to chose is 4 TB bandwith. Now we'd want to invest in regions where there is a lack of servers (that lack of servers has a reason, they are expensive). I think 30 servers for that 5000$ is more realistic. It is still a great number and would be awesome but imo it is not as easy as you think to really improve the network.
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TheMadHatter

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2013, 08:02:58 pm »
You can get a vps with 1 TB (192KB/s) for 5$. It would be located in europe or north america tho. Would such a server even benefit the tor network in those regions? I have read voices that say no. Some say anything below 1 MB/s for a relay is not really viable (especially in those regions). So, let's assume the cheapest you want to chose is 4 TB bandwith. Now we'd want to invest in regions where there is a lack of servers (that lack of servers has a reason, they are expensive). I think 30 servers for that 5000$ is more realistic. It is still a great number and would be awesome but imo it is not as easy as you think to really improve the network.
I never implied it would be an easy task, at least I never tried to imply that. ;)

I would say it's a great initiative from DPR to start up a 'campaign' like this. Any help on the network is beneficial, not only for SR. Additionally DPR is encouraging people to start up their own relays and/or donate to different tor related entities. Then again, this is an ongoing thing. Maybe it will 'only' be 5,000$ the first month, if the market grows to the size of the previous SR, hopefully DPR will continue this 'money stream' accordingly.

Could you direct me towards some of that information regarding the importance of the location of the relays? It sounds like an interesting read :)

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2013, 08:34:05 pm »
This is fantastic information.

Subscribed ;D
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2013, 08:57:43 pm »
It's great to hear that the new SR will be investing money back into improving the very technologies which keep us all safe. Do you have any other security-related projects in mind for possible investment in the future, or is it just the Tor network and possibly charities?
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2013, 09:04:31 pm »
I agree TheMadHatter.

I actually think i heard that in a youtube video from applebaum, will try to find it. I also don't really understand and would like to know why vps in asia or africa are that much more expensive.
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2013, 09:09:40 pm »
I would like to add that on the "Get Involved" section of the Tor Project's website, they suggest that everyone wishing to help out spin up their own Tor Bridge using TorCloud for less than $3.00 per month.

The clearnet link to the TorCloud project is https://cloud.torproject.org/

Thus far, I would just like to express how impressed I am with the way everyone is going about moving forward. The open calls for support, and solicitation of suggestions and input is a very wise choice in my opinion. It is quite encouraging to see a careful and pragmatic approach being taken to get the pieces in place -- taking into account any and all lessons learned thus far and as more information becomes available that can help avoid repeating of any of the same mistakes that may have helped contribute to the unfortunate downfall of the first iteration in this incredible experiment that is a true free market.

Bravo everyone!

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2013, 09:41:13 pm »
We will actually be opening a huge variety of new services and projects in the coming months but I feel for now I already have a high enough workload. Once the market is up and stable, I will reduce my time spent on actually developing it to focus on new initiatives and also consider future security issues. Most importantly, once stable services are up and running we will be handing them off either as a sale or simply giving the keys to somebody else who can be trusted to continue them so that they do not depend on Silk Road to function in the event we are taken down.

On that note, if you have any ideas of other hidden services you'd like to see or other implementations we could do to help the wider network you are always welcome to PM me or place it in Feature Requests as I intend to be more open and approachable than my predecessor on innovations you may have.
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2013, 09:56:07 pm »
[...] youtube video [...] applebaum [...]
That should be all I need to know in order to find it. Don't even bother looking for it, if it's out there, it will be found! Thanks a lot.

Yeah you're right. It doesn't make any sense that it should be more expensive in these particular parts. Everything else is cheaper there, why not servers?


We will actually be opening a huge variety of new services and projects in the coming months but I feel for now I already have a high enough workload. Once the market is up and stable, I will reduce my time spent on actually developing it to focus on new initiatives and also consider future security issues. Most importantly, once stable services are up and running we will be handing them off either as a sale or simply giving the keys to somebody else who can be trusted to continue them so that they do not depend on Silk Road to function in the event we are taken down.

On that note, if you have any ideas of other hidden services you'd like to see or other implementations we could do to help the wider network you are always welcome to PM me or place it in Feature Requests as I intend to be more open and approachable than my predecessor on innovations you may have.

Outsourcing is always a good idea ;) I mean your workload must be enormous! I love the idea of focusing on new initiatives it's an important aspect to a healthy community with a great future!
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2013, 12:57:10 am »
fuck it ill throw in a few grand for towards the relay and exit node fund.. lets out spend those asshole feds
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2013, 11:27:45 am »
As a relative newcomer to tor and the deepweb scene, I find myself compelled by this thread to do what I can to promote the health of the network, but I am wondering how safely I can do so.

The main concern I have is as follows: Assuming I were a university student with a relatively solid connection speed provided by my university's housing, would the university or LE be able to detect me running a home relay/exit node and would it be inadvisable to do so using the university's connection, in the event that it violates the terms of my contract regarding use of the internet here? Or, to put it another way, while DPR assures me that it is not illegal to run a home network/exit node, is this something that the university would realistically be able to detect/trace to me/take action against me for?

Furthermore, would this have any effect on my ability to safely browse and utilize less-than-legal deepweb resources?

I hope I haven't asked any stupid questions and that more experienced users than I can provide helpful answers as I do my best to become a responsible and helpful member of this community.

EDIT (more info): I had successfully completed several purchases on the original SR without any backlash or seeming notice by the university, and am capable of torrenting (using PeerBlock) with no ill effect, in case this has implications which would affect the answers to my questions.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 11:30:38 am by canaryman »

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2013, 11:32:27 am »
I've already made a couple donations.


And like stated, everyone should try run some sort of home relay. Let's make the LE actually do some work instead of sitting on their fat asses.

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2013, 11:41:16 am »
As a relative newcomer to tor and the deepweb scene, I find myself compelled by this thread to do what I can to promote the health of the network, but I am wondering how safely I can do so.

The main concern I have is as follows: Assuming I were a university student with a relatively solid connection speed provided by my university's housing, would the university or LE be able to detect me running a home relay/exit node and would it be inadvisable to do so using the university's connection, in the event that it violates the terms of my contract regarding use of the internet here? Or, to put it another way, while DPR assures me that it is not illegal to run a home network/exit node, is this something that the university would realistically be able to detect/trace to me/take action against me for?

Furthermore, would this have any effect on my ability to safely browse and utilize less-than-legal deepweb resources?

I hope I haven't asked any stupid questions and that more experienced users than I can provide helpful answers as I do my best to become a responsible and helpful member of this community.

EDIT (more info): I had successfully completed several purchases on the original SR without any backlash or seeming notice by the university, and am capable of torrenting (using PeerBlock) with no ill effect, in case this has implications which would affect the answers to my questions.

Whether or not it would be advisable to run a relay from your university network, I cannot answer. As DPR stated, running a relay isn't illegal, and the information entering and exiting a relay should be well encrypted. This gives you plausible deniability for anything 'fishy' going on, since you don't know what's going on. As for running an exit node from home/university I cannot recommend. The information leaving the exit node is partially unencrypted (depending on SSL state between the Tor user and the server they're accessing) and may sometimes contain illegal stuff. This illegal stuff would then be tied to your IP address, and this would create unwanted attention.

My overall opinion: You should definitely set up a relay, but stay away from exit nodes. Hidden services doesn't use exit nodes anyway.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 11:42:46 am by TheMadHatter »
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2013, 11:44:52 am »
The main concern I have is as follows: Assuming I were a university student with a relatively solid connection speed provided by my university's housing, would the university or LE be able to detect me running a home relay/exit node and would it be inadvisable to do so using the university's connection, in the event that it violates the terms of my contract regarding use of the internet here? Or, to put it another way, while DPR assures me that it is not illegal to run a home network/exit node, is this something that the university would realistically be able to detect/trace to me/take action against me for?

Furthermore, would this have any effect on my ability to safely browse and utilize less-than-legal deepweb resources?
In the US, there's absolutely nothing illegal about running a Tor relay.   Running a Tor *exit* (which connects to the clearnet for Tor users) is a magnet for abuse complaints, and many ISPs will throw you off just because of the headache. 

Nobody is suggesting that anybody run a Tor *exit node* without understanding the implications of that.  Just a Tor relay.

Running a Tor relay (the suggestion, and the purpose of the tutorial) has none of those issues. You're simply rerouting traffic for other users.

But yes, your university or ISP will be able to see that you're running a Tor relay, and that may violate their Terms of Service.  It may not be a good fit for you. 

The only downside that I'm aware of from running a Tor relay from your only/main browsing IP is that some websites blindly block all known Tor relays.. so even your non-Tor traffic from that IP may get blocked or handled differently (get stuck in CAPTCHA land to prevent abuse, etc)


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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2013, 12:03:36 pm »
Thanks very much to TheMadHatter and Whom for your help - I had not realized the difference in the risks of running a home relay vs. an exit node. I'll consider setting up a relay after I examine my terms of service contract with the university to verify that I'm not technically breaking any of their rules. Anything I can do to help the network.

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2013, 06:15:42 pm »
I've set up a home relay now with >1.5 Mbps :).

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2013, 06:34:20 pm »
I've set up a home relay now with >1.5 Mbps :).
Sweet.. When I reach post 50, you are getting a karma +
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2013, 07:06:02 pm »
As a relative newcomer to tor and the deepweb scene, I find myself compelled by this thread to do what I can to promote the health of the network, but I am wondering how safely I can do so.

The main concern I have is as follows: Assuming I were a university student with a relatively solid connection speed provided by my university's housing, would the university or LE be able to detect me running a home relay/exit node and would it be inadvisable to do so using the university's connection, in the event that it violates the terms of my contract regarding use of the internet here? Or, to put it another way, while DPR assures me that it is not illegal to run a home network/exit node, is this something that the university would realistically be able to detect/trace to me/take action against me for?

Furthermore, would this have any effect on my ability to safely browse and utilize less-than-legal deepweb resources?

I hope I haven't asked any stupid questions and that more experienced users than I can provide helpful answers as I do my best to become a responsible and helpful member of this community.

As has been said, running a relay is not illegal. In addition, many universities (though which ones exactly I'm not sure) actually support the Tor network, because it allows people living under oppressive regimes to access information, so I shouldn't see it being a problem from their perspective (best to consult your terms of service first though) - if there is any issue with it, I imagine it will come from the ISP providing internet to your campus, but I don't know of any ISPs who specifically prohibit running Tor relays, for the same reason: Tor provides access to online content (including content owned by the ISP themselves) to people who would otherwise not be able to access it.

EDIT (more info): I had successfully completed several purchases on the original SR without any backlash or seeming notice by the university, and am capable of torrenting (using PeerBlock) with no ill effect, in case this has implications which would affect the answers to my questions.

PeerBlock, though well intentioned, is largely a gimmick - it blocks outgoing connections based on constantly updated lists of known Microsoft, NSA etc. IP addresses (many of which are owned by domains such as "nsa.com") - but Windows is closed-source (and developed with input from the NSA) and I shouldn't imagine it would be difficult for the NSA/Microsoft to extract information to an unknown address. The best way to stop information leaking from your machine is not to use Windows at all (or iOS for that matter), but use Linux instead for anything you want to go unnoticed. Also, I'm not sure using PeerBlock for torrenting makes much difference, as BitTorrent was not designed for anonymity - in order to achieve a large number of peers, it gives out your IP address to everyone it connects with, and uses that IP address to request files.

EDIT: Just re-read your post, for some reason the first time round I thought you were talking about using PeerBlock for Tor as well as BitTorrent. Also just did a quick Google to refresh my knowledge of PeerBlock, but found I was generally right. PeerBlock blocks connections to a list of known addresses (held for example by copyright holders), but there is nothing to stop them just using new IP addresses.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 07:14:45 pm by R160K »
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2013, 11:07:44 am »
will relay as soon as i can, astor please come back.
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2013, 05:26:01 am »
The content of this entire post fills me with bubbly confidence, bravo.
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2013, 05:37:55 pm »
What about running a hidden service that acts as a decoy honeypot for leo, like it trades in cp and snuff films, so most of the heat gets taken off SR. Keep it running on some throaway server somewhere not connected to you in any way then reup it somewhere else when it gets taken down.

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2013, 02:46:56 am »
DPR one of the things you need to look into is this allegation that NSA has tapped the backbone somehow and is going to record just about every packet timing of the entire directory of relays.  The only defense i can think of is to try and set these mega relays up in places that would resist western taps.  North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Russia, China  etc....

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2013, 02:50:08 am »

 Hi

  I'm no computer head by any means, but I would love to help anyway I can.
 I would/will set up a home relay, does the speed of connection cause problems?
 My net speed is very slow, less than 0.5 meg my provider tells me that if I lived any further
away from the exchange they would not be able to supply broadband to me.
Would the speed cause a problem with a relay?
Sorry for the dumb question.

C

It shouldn't.  As long as you can do atleast 40 KB/sec you should be good.  Tor has the option to limit the bandwidth so it doesn't kill the rest of your connection.

Keep in mind that if you run a rely your ip might get banned by certain sites that freak out that you are a tor user.  They typically are banks and many message boards...just and fyi

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2013, 04:41:29 am »
will relay as soon as i can, astor please come back.

I do not think astor is going to come back, from reading his posts from the old forum it looks like he does not trust Tor anymore and will not be returning anytime soon.
Knowledge is power and as a community that knowledge can be used as a tool to aid the community, as I am only human if anything I submit on these forums is incorrect please contact me directly or quote the noted error and I can learn from my mistakes and minimize any form of misinformation.

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2013, 06:58:52 pm »
The Tor Project tries to keep a list of known good and bad ISPs:

[CLEARNET] https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2013, 01:11:47 am »
I'll donate when I can.  Hopefully will be able to set up a home relay next year
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2013, 11:49:21 pm »
VERY nice DPR, your doing a fantastic job my man! keep up your gangster!!!! ;)
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2013, 03:47:34 am »
I set up a Tor relay according to these instructions and it was quite easy.  The guide instructions say to use nano as a text editor, but my ubuntu server instillation didn't seem to have it to start with.  Vi worked just as well (instructions on how to use vi are online).  Now over the next few weeks I'll fiddle with the bandwidth to get it up to my max monthly limit.

I have a bitcoin address here that anyone can feel free to send some spare coins to.  If I get enough I'll set up another VPS Tor relay.

My VPS Tor relay donation address:
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2013, 11:08:04 am »
I set up a Tor relay according to these instructions and it was quite easy.  The guide instructions say to use nano as a text editor, but my ubuntu server instillation didn't seem to have it to start with.  Vi worked just as well (instructions on how to use vi are online).  Now over the next few weeks I'll fiddle with the bandwidth to get it up to my max monthly limit.

I have a bitcoin address here that anyone can feel free to send some spare coins to.  If I get enough I'll set up another VPS Tor relay.

My VPS Tor relay donation address:
1No5YRZMCQzcMnK7ZEYNBMfJPCzZbNBVUX

Good to see more people helping out the Tor network which in turns only helps out its users.
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2013, 07:01:20 pm »
I currently run two high-speed tor relays (not exit nodes and bridges) I am paying for them out of pocket and plan to run more.
It was originally noted in the bounty that expenses will be paid + a small tip for setting up nodes for Silk Road...

DPR, does this offer still stand or are we to use our own funds? I could make a serious impact with some funding.
Until then, I will continue to set up nodes anonymously and my donation address is as follows:  1Muw67iiPR7E291KVdBzbU4HErV3PMfweU
5$ will get a 10-100Mbit/sec host, so the money will go to good use.
If others need help setting up nodes, Either anonymously or not, whether Bridges, Relays, or Exit nodes, PM me
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2013, 04:25:52 am »
I have just opened a number of items on my vendor page where users can purchase TOR Nodes, Bridges, Private Bridges, and Exit relays in their own name. The charge includes hosting, my set up time, and SR fee. Please check out the items here. Feel free to ask any questions via here or my vendor profile:

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2013, 05:59:10 pm »
I have just opened a number of items on my vendor page where users can purchase TOR Nodes, Bridges, Private Bridges, and Exit relays in their own name. The charge includes hosting, my set up time, and SR fee. Please check out the items here. Feel free to ask any questions via here or my vendor profile:

http://silkroad6ownowfk.onion/users/incoming/items

I was actually wanting to ask you something, what control do you give the users over these services that you set up ? What is their lifespan and what is stopping you from taking control or creating a log of sorts that can be used as a piece in following a certain group of users of the Tor network around the internet.
Knowledge is power and as a community that knowledge can be used as a tool to aid the community, as I am only human if anything I submit on these forums is incorrect please contact me directly or quote the noted error and I can learn from my mistakes and minimize any form of misinformation.

incoming

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2013, 08:55:13 pm »
I have just opened a number of items on my vendor page where users can purchase TOR Nodes, Bridges, Private Bridges, and Exit relays in their own name. The charge includes hosting, my set up time, and SR fee. Please check out the items here. Feel free to ask any questions via here or my vendor profile:

http://silkroad6ownowfk.onion/users/incoming/items

I was actually wanting to ask you something, what control do you give the users over these services that you set up ? What is their lifespan and what is stopping you from taking control or creating a log of sorts that can be used as a piece in following a certain group of users of the Tor network around the internet.

Timespan is one month. I was offering no control over the service or box itself, just access to the tor relay, or just run one and you could see the server you paid for in the Tor stats (you can name the node). My reputation would have to be trusted or built so-to-speak for the private relay. For example, your home IP address could be discovered (by me) and that is the same risk of using any TOR bridge operated by anyone that you know.
However, I can tell you that I am not logging or watching the machines in any way. If you have cautions about that, ask one of your friends who runs a hosting company to set up a tor private bridge for you instead of buying it from me. As for the relays, and exit relays, you would never be connecting to them directly, so your anonymity will remain. Also, for the private tor bridge, even i was watching for IP addresses, your TOR destinations wouldn't be known.
This was mostly an idea where users could sponsor their own relays, and the private bridge is a last-minute idea. You definitely want to be using a private bridge relay from someone you trust.
Hope that clears it up
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2013, 07:59:25 am »
Thanks for putting this info out there. The Tor project's funding is far less than it's adversaries. They can use some coin. Great tutorial.
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2013, 03:22:38 pm »
brilliant to spread the knowledge so everyone can refer back to it when needed 8)

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2013, 12:33:01 am »
Thank you for the information DPR. Its great the community is included in the updates and information.

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2013, 08:42:00 am »
big thank you to all the nameless people involved in keeping the ship afloat, kudos :)
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2013, 05:56:32 am »
everyone interested in helping go to the Official Haystack Fund($1.00 donations):
http://silkroad6ownowfk.onion/items/tor-exit-relay-fundraiser
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2013, 12:40:52 pm »
Switched my tor over to relay I don't know why I waited so long works just fine and helps S.R good, good!
"Ignorance killed the cat, curiosity was framed".

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2013, 12:52:43 pm »
What does this mean on the relay?

Directory Port Reach ability test Failed

DNS Highjacking Detected

Server Port Reach ability Failed

Why did this happen??
"Ignorance killed the cat, curiosity was framed".

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2013, 12:54:25 am »
Hey DPR im still recieving the DDos warning blah blah anyways
im moving into a new flat soon with 20/20 fibre to the door if there is anything in short supply am happy to run 24/7 relays from our connection will go through guides and get onto it next week when we move

nathan.burnett

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2013, 06:33:08 am »
I've enabled relaying, putting in my part

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2013, 12:02:14 am »
Is the relay issue still on? Need to get into it but will have to do some reading
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2014, 11:51:02 am »
I must admit it took me a while to read it all and I even understand the majority of it. A great deal of effort was put into it, I couldn't possibly explain it any better. I only hope that regular users will be able to understand but once again, I couldn't have put it any better! Def. one big +1  ;)

ldopa

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2014, 12:11:46 pm »
Well since that guide was written the number of relays has increased from 3500 to 5000. I doubt it was because of that guide but it looks like lots of people are figuring out how to run relays.

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2014, 07:52:52 pm »
Is the relay issue still on? Need to get into it but will have to do some reading

Well like Idopa said, since the guide was written, the number of relays has increased about 50%, but there will always be a relay issue.  Especially due to the needle in the haystack theory.  But also, a faster Tor Network is better for all of us.  Let's all do our part, it doesn't have to be that difficult.  Just changing your settings to allow Tor relaying is a big help if everyone using Tor were to do it.

So if you aren't yet helping out and you can- then at least enable Tor relaying!  That is the easiest way to help out (other than donating btc to Tor, etc)

Jolly Roger

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2014, 08:24:43 pm »
Check with your ISP first. Certain ISPs strictly forbid this or require you to pay extra money.

If you want ask anonymously, email them over Tor using an anonymous email.
They would live and die under it.

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2014, 05:24:16 am »
This is a great idea. Having more relays not only helps dark markets succeed but also helps people in oppressed countries express their thoughts and opinions.
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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2014, 06:14:37 pm »
i would sugest we switch from being a needle in a haystack to being a piece of hay in the needle stack

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2014, 11:57:16 pm »
i would sugest we switch from being a needle in a haystack to being a piece of hay in the needle stack

Ahahahahahaha!!!  I like your syle bozoonthebus!!!  +1 to you

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2014, 05:12:21 pm »
can we open new topic about pure technical-configuration questions about relay running on ubuntu? Lets call that "Needle in a Haystack Error Mesages", or "Needle in a Haystack Configuration Questions" or ..... I spend some time lucking for answers about  "debian-tor arm" errors or some other questions and found no answers. Any ideas?

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Re: Needle in a Haystack
« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2014, 07:24:02 am »
1+ I like this idea.
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