Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Dread Pirate Roberts on February 27, 2012, 04:36 am
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UPDATE: Specific listings can be made stealth now as well. From the Seller's Guide:
When listing or editing an item, you may also control its visibility. By checking the box next to stealth listing, you remove the listing from public searches, browsing, and even your user page, so it is only accessible by visiting the item url directly (you can find a link on your account page). This is useful for custom listings meant only for a specific buyer, or for listings you don't want visible on your publicly facing user page.
There are heroes among us here at Silk Road. Every day they risk their lives, fortunes, and precious liberty for us. They are on the front lines making tough decisions and working their asses off to make this market what it is. Of course I am talking about our vendors. I won't try to acknowledge them individually because we are blessed with so many extraordinary people who have stepped up to the task and taken it upon themselves to find a way to stock the shelves at Silk Road. They labor tirelessly to balance the heavy responsibilities they've taken on. From customer support, to supply chain and inventory management, to promotion, to quality control, to risk management and mitigation, to IT, to Bitcoin finance, to order fulfillment, and on and on, these guys and gals are professionals that are rising to the top of their game.
Often, when another superstar vendor joins our ranks, they rise quickly toward the top of the heap. They are amazed by the demand for their products and service, but also troubled by the attention they've gained. They risk so much already and being in the spotlight, while good for business, also poses the risk of becoming a target for law enforcement.
At the request of some of our top vendors, we are implementing a new feature called Stealth Mode. From the Seller's Guide:
Stealth mode allows you to run your business out of view of the general public. Whether your sales are growing faster than you can expand your infrastructure to keep up, or you just don't want to be in the public eye any more and are happy with the size of your current customer base, stealth mode might by the solution for you. When activated, your listings will no longer appear in public searches, category views, or any pages linked to from the public site. However, your user and item pages will still be available when accessed directly, so your regular customers can still make purchases from you. Just make sure they have your userpage url. Note: It can take up to an hour for your listings to go stealth because of caching.
Our aim is to give our vendors the ability to control the growth rate and visibility of their businesses and take on the level of risk they are comfortable with.
Here's to our heroes! Cheers!
Update: after reading your responses, I realized one of the main reasons for going stealth would be to hide the size and scope of your operation. So, some data has been removed from a vendor's user and item pages when in stealth mode.
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I think this is great.
I couldn't imagine processing hundreds of illicit shipments every week. I'm sure it can be quite laborious to setup and execute properly.
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I think that any attempt to make the market easier to manage for the vendors is great, but that being said I also think that this is a step towards encouraging a "private market" mentality which goes against all that SR stands for. At every opportunity we should, as a community, try to be inclusive towards newer buyers. When I made my first purchase a few months ago, I was amazed by the variety of products and the eagerness of vendors to help me understand the system better. I would hate to see anything less for those who are new to the community. :-\
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Would it be possible to randomize one's own profile addresses? Because LE could just copy the popular vendors profile .onion address now before anyone has a chance to go stealth, also any customer could leak the address to the public. It would be ideal to be able to switch up .onion addresses at will, then update customer base.
-Just a thought 8)
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Would it be possible to randomize one's own profile addresses? Because LE could just copy the popular vendors profile .onion address now before anyone has a chance to go stealth, also any customer could leak the address to the public. It would be ideal to be able to switch up .onion addresses at will, then update customer base.
Explain to me then how your supposed to find your vendor?
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Wow, so, while I understand the premise, this could really backfire. How am I to find the good sellers now?
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suppose you had a personal key created between you and a merchant - a random key that SR remembers to use to redirect you to a certain vendor. Here you can see their products, and order them - without even needing to see their vendor ID. You could spread the vendor between friends by suggesting another link, that the vendor can then chose to accept or deny, etc.
Buyers would have a 'folder' storing a list of these keys, with some order or notes they want to put next to it. These keys individually are useless, as you cannot draw vendor information back out of them
1Would it be possible to randomize one's own profile addresses? Because LE could just copy the popular vendors profile .onion address now before anyone has a chance to go stealth, also any customer could leak the address to the public. It would be ideal to be able to switch up .onion addresses at will, then update customer base.
Explain to me then how your supposed to find your vendor?
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It's a fine idea but can people stop throwing the word "hero" around.
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Hmm. This sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice I fear it may alienate some of the potential good customers out there. Hopefully the incoming crop of vendors can each find their niche and everything works out okay.
This will certainly put more emphasis on the Forums for research of vendors, products, quality reports, and vendor reports in general, especially as the regular feedback may not be viewable in some cases.
Hopefully if it doesn't work out, we will have the foresight to improve the process.
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Ionno, I'm a rather infrequent buyer of small amounts, but aside from some bitching and moaning if I have to wait 2.5 weeks for something that takes 3 days I try to be a good buyer, like, finalize as soon as I get it, polite, fair feedback etc.
Somehow I think that this will mean that particularly due to my infrequent small buying habit I'll now prolly end up with access limited to "second tier" vendors. Ionno if that will be the final drop making me decide to get my shit downtown again.
I mean, if on top of the premium price we pay, and the hassles we go through to get coin and all that shit that is of annoyance just to get a few pills or noses I'll now find myself limited to not-so-established vendors then it really makes no point to me anymore. With the general sentiment lately I'm pretty convinced all the established reliable vendors will go stealth.
Ionno. Yah vendors you all are my heros............................despite your motivation being making money :P
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Ionno, I'm a rather infrequent buyer of small amounts, but aside from some bitching and moaning if I have to wait 2.5 weeks for something that takes 3 days I try to be a good buyer, like, finalize as soon as I get it, polite, fair feedback etc.
Somehow I think that this will mean that particularly due to my infrequent small buying habit I'll now prolly end up with access limited to "second tier" vendors. Ionno if that will be the final drop making me decide to get my shit downtown again.
I mean, if on top of the premium price we pay, and the hassles we go through to get coin and all that shit that is of annoyance just to get a few pills or noses I'll now find myself limited to not-so-established vendors then it really makes no point to me anymore. With the general sentiment lately I'm pretty convinced all the established reliable vendors will go stealth.
Valid point.
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Noticing a lot of updates lately :)
Cheers to the vendors who are in the front lines battling for us.
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Stealth mode = "temporary" private market. Most vendors will not want to stay that way for long. When they are comfortable to take on new clients, they will deactivate stealth mode. In fact, some might pick certain days or the beginning or ending week of a month to deactivate stealth mode.
What it might also encourage is a referral system of sorts. Regular customers can from time to time, refer a poster on the forum to the vendor via PM by simply giving them the URL to the vendor. The new customer would then tell the vendor that they were referred by the regular customer who gave them the URL. Perhaps the vendor would show their appreciation for the vouched new customer by give the referrer a little bonus.
But then again, a SR forum poster can simply start a thread and post the URL to a vendor who is currently in stealth mode defeating the stealth mode.
Or people could use Warweed's SR user base to search for vendor URLs.
The other solution for a vendor to slow down new customer growth is to establish a minimum order size.
Anyway, we'll see how this goes. But I doubt SR will turn into a bunch of private markets or elite buyers clubs. If it does, that would be a shame as it would subjugate new buyers to the risk of having to purchase from non-established sellers and having to go outside of escrow system by finalizing early as the norm. Something which would be a scammer's heaven.
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I bet that the longer a buyer has been here the less likely they are to do shenanigans. Buyers with user numbers under, say, 7582 should be able to see through stealth mode. I like to keep a pantry with small quantities of many things. I average 3 TX per month but they are small. 2 of those 3 are repeated only a few times over a 12 month period. And I try to buy from only the best-rated sellers, having been burned by lesser lights. Stealth mode sounds that it will likely shut me out off from several vendors that I otherwise pay quickly and get along well with: vendors who would welcome doing business with a buyer like me.
or buyers with >29 TX
or expenditures >357 BTC
or refund rates < 1.12%
you see where I'm going with this
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...we are implementing a new feature called Stealth Mode...
While I totally understand the reasons why, I don't believe this is a good solution. As many have said, it may make certain vendors unavailable to smaller or less frequent buyers.
That's not a good thing for anybody.
What % of total SR turnover is from small buys, say less than $100 USD ???
Total turnover may reduce, if people can't find what they want.
Take me...
$250-300 USD a month average
Use a lot of different vendors.
Average transaction around $40-50 USD
can't order big - strict dealing laws here
Yes
I am small time for these guys
But
lots of little guys like me on SR
And
we all add up!
mg
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GREAT IDEA. Now tell me how to do it. Don't just tell me about it.
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I'm sorry, I'm pondering all the elements brought forward but I'm still not pacified. Why?
a) "outgrowing your logistics" That is fallacious. The proper response by a vendor not able to fulfill his orders anymore is "less offers", not offers reduced to a select circle of people. 100 orders are 100 orders. Dun make any difference if they are from previous customers or new ones, unless of course you'd keep a database, which certainly you don't, do you now? For all intents and purposes, the "logistics" of EVERY order should be the same whether it is a new or a returning customer.
b) We are purporting to be proponents of the "Free Market". There are two schools pertaining to this though. One is, to say a market is only free if a seller can freely decide whom to sell to, and who not. The other is, to say a market can only be free if every participant of that market can have equal access to all available info and resources. This is clearly not the case if reputed/reliable sellers withdraw from the public market in knee-jerk reactions to an isolated case of feedback extortionists trying to hogg some free product. To the detriment of ALL buyers.
c) Lets say vendor A has a really great hookup for primo speed at a very fair price, but obviously, a limited supply. Now obviously this vendor will find plenty opportunities to sell his primo goods. But aside from his transactions, he also has an impact on the overall market, in that his market presence offers incentive for others to lower their prices also in order to compete. Now since this vendor has a limited supply, and obviously a strong interest in risk mitigation, it is only natural that he will go stealth, makes perfect sense........in this individual sellers perspective. However, sellers of primo goods going stealth, removes the incentive for other sellers to also lower their prices / improve quality to be able to compete. In fact, a driving actuator of market leverage is taken out of the equation. The best sellers will have the biggest run on their product hence being the first to go stealth. Thus their offerings are removed from regular market dynamics. Is this really what a market needs that already has a price premium over IRL?
d) Can you even imagine the frustration level if you're roaming the seller feedbacks to find the best vendor of your drug of choice, just to then find out...DUH....gone stealth. This type of frustration is one of the things that made me give up buying in the club. Everyone raving about XYZs pills, and you're the shmuck not getting any, cuz sowwy pal, private party buyers only.
I'm basing all this on a lot of assumptions, I'd happily be proven wrong. But it is what it is. Your protection from exposure should be being here. Being behind TOR, behind SR, with doing your due diligence on your security measures and practices. The idea that you become any safer as seller if you cut off after the 100th 200th 500th customer is fallacious at best.
I can understand the current atmosphere of sellers wanting a bit more protection, but afaict this is mainly because of a few rotten apple feedback extortionists. To take that as an opportunity to create exclusive "members only" clubs is detrimental to the market overall, and might be counter productive. I'm already thinking, will I be invited to buy from a "good" seller ever again if I dare to give a 3 instead of a 5 for having had to wait 4 weeks for my shit?
Sowwy folks. A lot of good shit was thought up by SR lately. The feedback overhaul, separation of guns and drugs, excellent solutions. This however, I can't say I agree with, because it creates too much leverage for the supply-side. Basically we're going from "ha I'll extort a dimebag by threatening with bad feedback" to "gimme a good feedback or you won't get in the big boys clubs anymore"
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It seems like this could back fire and would make sr go a bit south for some people. Maybe if when the seller is on stealth mode only buyers with good stats could see his listing and the ones with lower stats could not. yes, no?
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That would solve some of the problems that johnwholesome mentioned but it would still create an unfair exclusivity. I think we must realize that there is no perfect solution to this problem. However I don't think this stealth program is the right way to go. Saying that, I can not think of anything better??? It's going to be a problem no matter what. I guess we can say that at least they're being proactive and showing initiative, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. It shows us that SR is an ever-evolving platform.
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A lot of these things seem pretty experimental still! Nothing to do but make it work, neh?
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As a vendor it scares me to death at times usually late at night seeing shadows with my security cameras paranoia sets in and I think about what all that can happen and how life as I know it could end. Its almost enough to throw away all your hard work, investments and what you believe in. Having to deal with only your repeat or proven buyers would be a great alternative rather than to give it all up to be able to lay low for awhile. I appreciate the caring and thoughtfulness of this idea.
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???
I kind of thought of SR as being the "Stealth mode" of the internet (via TOR, etc)... more stealth after that?!?! You'll disappear!!!
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I understand your concerns about losing access to certain items and this being unfair to certain kinds of buyers. In general though, the more options you give to market participants the better, and you have to think through the consequences of them not having those options to see the whole picture. For example, how many people saw the opportunity to sell on Silk Road and said "no thanks, too much exposure"? We don't know. How many have sold less than they could have because they wanted to stay low key? Again, we don't know. Even ignoring those effects, what will happen if a big vendor goes stealth. Well, new customers won't see their listings anymore and will buy from their competitors instead. These competitors will sell out of their stocks faster and until they can re-up will have to raise their prices. This is painful in the short run for buyers, but will act to attract new vendors with their own stock of the product. Prices fall, more vendors are participating, and for all intents and purposes, the market is stronger. Now instead of forcing all vendors to be public, we give them the option and the ones that want exposure can have it and the ones that don't don't have to, and the forces of supply, demand and the profit motive will incentiveize vendors to do what's best for themselves and their customers.
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x.x
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BRAVO! this is exactly what I wanted because I'm one of those rising to the top. Soon all will know whats up and I wont have to be one of the most wanted here because LE wont be able to see, love this thanks
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We'll see how this pans out. Don't like it, in my opinion. There's a private scene for a reason. Noobs will get fucked out of quality vendors if they decide to go stealth one day.
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if a vendor goes stealth will their .onion address be the same as before?
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@DPR
I reckon you are not a big fan of the resurgence of Keynesian economics :)
I will freely admit that my perspective is rather narrow, namely, that of the occasional/small-time but honest buyer. But aside from my petty self-interest, I'm also assuming that my type might be quite representative for a substantial number of buyers.
What I am getting at is, that in my personal (and humble) opinion, I believe that despite all our "in the world's face" attitude, we still have a very fragile market here. I am simply not sure if such a heavily supply-sided measure will benefit the overall growth. You mentioned potential sellers might not have become sellers for fear of exposure. But then I ask, how would these would be sellers become sellers in the first place, they have to start at some point out in the open.
You make a very compelling argument. It is sensible, and economically sound. However, I do believe (again in my humble opinion) that it falls short of accounting for human nature. Whether it will strengthen the market or suffocate it with fragmented exclusive buyer clubs remains to be seen.
I'm hoping for the best, I hope this works out. I hope the typical modus operandi for sellers won't be "gather 200 feedbacks then disappear" leaving the average occasional buyer with the "questionable startups". I simply don't want to be a guinea pig for new vendor testing.
I'm not claiming to be savvy enough with my economics to make such judgements, but I do think of myself as someone able to sense certain trends, atmosphere, whatever you want to call it. My worry is simple: The strongest and reputable vendors here offer a service that is worth the hassles of paying premium and going through the hoops and loops. Many of the "not so savvy" or "well-intended" vendors simply don't justify the loops and hoops one has to go through to make a purchase. It would just be regrettable if a large section of the market would be shut out from the "insider" trade, because after all we are still in direct competition with real life transactions.
That being said, I think we have found enough common ground so that we can agree to disagree. I'd enjoy nothing more than being proven wrong though!!! Hence I shall from now on embrace the changes, albeit with a little reservation and skepticism.
...edited for typo
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Wow! What an incredibly bad idea :(
Is this a lean towards exclusivity? I do understand how some vendors would want it but from a buyer's view it can be pretty harsh. I personally buy from trusted vendors as I have too much to lose getting caught because a vendor is a scammer or packages the item poorly. The top vendors are the one's who don't do this but stealth mode would ensure we don't have access to them.
Anyway that's the way I see it. Hopefully I'm wrong :-\
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I agree with johnwholesome, this seems a bad idea to me.
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all the people complaining here seems it's buyers. You don't understand that if your a big mover and have low prices LE while go after you more than another vendor. I guess you just have to trust the vendors rep but I support this. Buyers don't care because they are not the ones LE wants more likely. I could care less if I lose most my business for piece of mind.
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all the people complaining here seems it's buyers. You don't understand that if your a big mover and have low prices LE while go after you more than another vendor. I guess you just have to trust the vendors rep but I support this. Buyers don't care because they are not the ones LE wants more likely. I could care less if I lose most my business for piece of mind.
I'm not obtuse towards your plight at all mate. It's a valid point. But then tell me, how are you gonna make sure none of your "invited" buyers aren't LE?
I'm not gonna rail against this anymore or try to debunk it, decision's been made we all gotta live with that. All I'm saying to your point is just taking your offerings of the front page offers an added security layer that is minimal to non-existent. All LE needs to do is hang on the forums. By your logic (and I'm not belittling it or anything, as I said, the point has validity to some extent) the next logical step would be to remove seller review threads, because after all, a seller with a lot of good reviews will easily become an LE target, no?
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once again SR admins demonstrated very deep understanding of our business, impressive. if vendor cannot control whom he sale, then it is serious handicap for the whole system. in fact it is why many serious vendors even do not want to bring their businesses on SR.
in facts, the trend is here already and if administration will not be able to recognize it, ... well sales will take place in PMs.
number of serious vendors on SR , who do not known to anybody, they have one or two listings and huge list of items on their profile page. these vendors been in the game for a while and have a habit to deal that way. go to the last page in each category and you will find few vendors there, with good reputation, who do not posting any new sales for a while.
why do they not post any new sales, for a few reasons: their prices are wholesale and once you posted a sale like 10 kg of cocain US to US , you are prime attraction for LE. you must be an idiot to do that.
most guys, who posted here opposing views are quite fresh and their concerns are baseless.
Once it is done SR will remains as same, as it is now for newcomers. but much better for those who want to bring some serious business here.
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I've been a small-time honest buyer here for almost a year.
I loved this place for having access to top quality drugs that I could not find anywhere,
but was only making about couple of purchases a month.
So now I'm going to be locked out of the best products, I guess.
This is quite said.
DPR, you know, if you want to make this place and the vendors a little bit less "exposed", all you need to do is
anonymize the statistics.
Really, for now I can see: how many vendors there are, how many registered buyers there are, how much of each listed product
product each vendor has sold. I can estimate how many purchases are made per hour, how many buyers register a day, and how
these statistics progress. I can estimate the same for each of the listed product of each vendor.
Just replacing individual stats with averages + an (optional- up to the vendor) indicator of volume goes a long way towards reducing exposure for vendors.
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Fast forward a month from now, and you have people like Warforge selling lists of direct URLs to stealthed vendors.
Not sure this is going to accomplish very much to be honest with you. It's certainly not going to be very effective in hiding vendors from LEO. It will do a decent job of protecting certain vendors from dealing with unestablished buyers, and perhaps that has some value, but it also has some pretty serious negatives...besides, is it really that hard to just cancel an order from somebody you don't want to sell to?
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Wow, so much hate for the new feature. :(
I don't really see the problem here. This apocalyptic scenario most of you are afraid of is based on so many assumptions:
1) Every reputable vendor will decide to be in stealth mode all the time,
2) They won't ever give out their URLs even if you ask via PM here in the forums,
3) Nobody else will either, and
4) Warweed's user search will break and it will be completely impossible for anyone to ever code anything similar again.
I believe that every single one of these assumptions is false, except for assumption number 2 in certain specific scenarios.
I already have my favorite vendors bookmarked anyways, so it won't affect me if they go stealth. If they don't want my business, they can cancel my orders and ask me to do my shopping elsewhere. All I'll be missing out on is the opportunity to window shop with other vendors who might have better offers. But they have the right no not make their offers public.
DPR, I think this is a great feature. Anything that gives vendors more control over their own business can only be positive in a market like this.
Cheers,
Horizons.
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I would love to see a more options. It would be great if some items could be put in stealth mode, so that they do not appear in listings and on the regular profile page but you were given the option to distribute a different url listing those items to customers you want to deal with. For example, if I sold mainly weed but also offered coke from time to time, I would like to hide the coke business from the general public.
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I would love to see a more options. It would be great if some items could be put in stealth mode, so that they do not appear in listings and on the regular profile page but you were given the option to distribute a different url listing those items to customers you want to deal with. For example, if I sold mainly weed but also offered coke from time to time, I would like to hide the coke business from the general public.
That would be easy to include in the country settings as special entry (something like:repeat buyer only)
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A lot of simple points made that illustrate the ineffectiveness of this new feature for what it seems to want to accomplish.
The funniest of them is a vendor selling URLs of the stealth vendors. I could see someone doing that. LOL.
I don't see how this will bring bigger players here as someone suggested. Who would know that they are even here? LOL.
On a serious note, I can imagine the moderators on the forum having to play wack-a-mole for posts that pop up which list stealth vendor URLs. Since anyone can start a profile, those that oppose the idea would likely start a new profile and routinely post these URLs in an effort to undermine the system. Some people are activist like that.
LEO likely already has every URL to every vendor, so unless stealth mode also means a change of URL when stealth, I don't see how that will protect current vendors from LEO's prying eyes. And if it did mean a change of URL when stealth, vendors would have to PM all their clients (or the ones they like best at least) with the new stealth URL. And that would be fine since most regular customers rarely venture to new vendors anyway. Even when the prices of other vendors might be cheaper. But now they might not know that. :p
The only thing stealth mode would seem to accomplish is locking out new buyers from established vendors. Especially new buyers who don't ever visit the forum. And that's fine. Sucks for them. But new buyers who never visit the forum are likely the ones that need the most hand holding.
If stealth mode is designed with the intention of bringing newer and bigger vendors, I suppose those vendors will scour the forum looking for potential regulars and PM them an invitation to sample their wares. Or come on unstealthed (new word) and stay that way for a month or two before going stealth. But then again, LEO would have noticed their arrival and captured their vendor URL.
So I don't think this has anything to do with providing a small measure of protection from LEO.
What I think is that with SR gaining more and more media exposure, established sellers wouldn't be able to handle the volume nor would they want to. So for that purpose, stealth mode is a must.
I don't know. I suppose there's more to stealth mode than discussed. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to accomplish anything other than locking out new clients for a time. I say for a time because no vendor is going to stay in stealth mode indefinitely. When they are ready for new clients, they will go public for a time.
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What I think is that with SR gaining more and more media exposure, established sellers wouldn't be able to handle the volume nor would they want to. So for that purpose, stealth mode is a must.
All vendors list how many of a product they have when making the listing, though this isn't shown anywhere to buyers, so no vendor should get more orders than they can fill.
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What I think is that with SR gaining more and more media exposure, established sellers wouldn't be able to handle the volume nor would they want to. So for that purpose, stealth mode is a must.
All vendors list how many of a product they have when making the listing, though this isn't shown anywhere to buyers, so no vendor should get more orders than they can fill.
Buyers see something of it when they place orders. There's a max quantity posted next to the order quantity dialog box. It could be max per person or max in general.
Let's assume it means max in general. It's one thing to sell out in a month. Quite another to sell out in a few days or even a day. Imagine having to fill hundreds of orders per day? Everyday? Stealth mode would mitigate that sort of problem.
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All I ask is a deadline, if it's not too late, when this will be implemented so I can go through the listings and save favorite vendor info for future reference. Also, my user name is different between the forums and the market so vendors would never know who I am if they were to look for their regulars here in order to contact them.
I do respect the vendors' concerns but I also fear being potentially locked out from the best product. There's nothing I like doing more than signing on and perusing all the listings.
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This is a great idea, and I'm sure a lot of vendors will be taking advantage of this new feature, even temporarily.
That being said, I have no problem with LE poking around my profile page (although I wish the max displayed transactions was back down at 250). I already sort of use a system that would put me into stealth mode(ish), and that's that I list what I am willing to sell for the week, and that's it. Once it's bought up I wait until I am ready for another batch. Couple that with my minimum buyer stats and most of the worries are left to other vendors and I usually deal with the good ones.
Thank you, DPR, for giving vendors another tool to use. Buyers arguably take more risk on a regular basis just because it's their physical information on the package, but if one of us ever got caught because of SR it would be a crucifixion.
Stay safe out there, everyone :)
Anarcho47
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I see the rise of a problem of a subset market where established buyers pm vendors addresses for a few bitcoins...
ggg
P.S. I commend DPR for actively thinking of ways to improve the site. Kudos DPR!
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YEAH!! stepping it up DPR!
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I have been thinking a change like this is the next evolution. I feel bad for the new users that can't get on the upper tier of buying, and I really like the peace of mind of getting to know those I am serving. And this is a solution that might keep me in business. I was more wanting to have a "subscriber list" for each listing. Where each listing I can specify if it is open, or only available to one or more users. I might have an open listing for something small, and then when I trusted a user, I might add them to some of the more expensive listings..??
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What's all the fuss about? This is a minor feature. Just bookmark any notable vendors. Duh...
Most link to their SR sell page in their forum sigs anyway.
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What's all the fuss about? This is a minor feature. Just bookmark any notable vendors. Duh...
Most link to their SR sell page in their forum sigs anyway.
That assumes that linking to Seller page in sigs will remain. Not likely once a seller goes stealth.
So, I get what all the fuss is about. Some buyers like to sample different top vendors periodically. If the vendor goes stealth before they had a chance to bookmark the page, they won't find the vendor and will miss an opportunity to acquire top quality stuff from a top vendor. I guess not everyone is a regular who is loyal to a single vendor or handful of vendors.
I have a short list of top vendors that I deal with and one exceptional vendor (Pharmville) that I regularly deal with. So I won't be affected by this change at all. But since it's a community here, I feel obligated to at least empathize with those who might be affected by it.
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You know it's just possible that there are good sellers out there who are specifically looking for people like you. From what i've seen selling big on here is a full time job. Apart from not having anywhere near enough stock to deal with demand I personally don't have the time to deal with the massive amounts of pms from buyers, some people need their hand held til they get the package, want updated at each stage, act in a jail bait manner etc. Plenty of good sellers who don't need that kind of stress can supply a small group of trusted buyers with this new mode. If you haven't been an annoying buyer then you'll probably be invited back by someone.
...we are implementing a new feature called Stealth Mode...
While I totally understand the reasons why, I don't believe this is a good solution. As many have said, it may make certain vendors unavailable to smaller or less frequent buyers.
That's not a good thing for anybody.
What % of total SR turnover is from small buys, say less than $100 USD ???
Total turnover may reduce, if people can't find what they want.
Take me...
$250-300 USD a month average
Use a lot of different vendors.
Average transaction around $40-50 USD
can't order big - strict dealing laws here
Yes
I am small time for these guys
But
lots of little guys like me on SR
And
we all add up!
mg
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I can see how this is giving more freedom to vendors but in turn its taking freedom from the buyers. For someone like me that just joined SR i might get left behind. Established buyers will get to keep the good vendors and new buyers will play the role of guinea pig testing out new vendors to see if theyre legit. I know its the vendors right to sell to whoever they want just like its the buyers right to buy from whoever they want but in my opinion SR is great the way it is and putting new hurdles in the way of buyers isnt going to make it any better.
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You know it's just possible that there are good sellers out there who are specifically looking for people like you. From what i've seen selling big on here is a full time job. Apart from not having anywhere near enough stock to deal with demand I personally don't have the time to deal with the massive amounts of pms from buyers, some people need their hand held til they get the package, want updated at each stage, act in a jail bait manner etc. Plenty of good sellers who don't need that kind of stress can supply a small group of trusted buyers with this new mode. If you haven't been an annoying buyer then you'll probably be invited back by someone.
Good point. But how will the vendor know to invite them? I guess by looking over buyer stats and sending unsolicited PMs to those buyers who meet a certain criteria?
Not bad then. That would be a welcomed surprise to get an invite from a top seller. It could make SR even more fun and exciting. And perhaps give new buyers an incentive to buy regularly and behave themselves so that they could get an invite.
So vendors can better target potential new clients, perhaps the buyer stat should include the catagories that buyers have bought from instead of just the BTC amount spent. Though, perhaps the buyer should be given the option to display that info for privacy sake.
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I think it's an interesting idea...
I can't help feeling like this all came about because i tore into pharmville though...the next day dude pulled all his listings and hasn't been back since. Then a week later, this - a solution to all his problems. No doubt, ill never be seeing him again... :P
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So lets take it a step further, just for argument's sake, if we're all about the LE aspect, then the only conclusion would be that if a seller goes "stealth", his review threads would also have to disappear, no?
Cuz after all, what good is hiding from the market what you got on offer, if you get 3,4,5 rave feedbacks about your stellar <insert drug name here> every day?
Won't that provide equal "public exposure" of your potential throughput?
And how is it going to be enforced? Is divulging a stealth vendor's profile url going to be a "punishable offense" from now on?
This all just smacks a lot of government methodology - just with a different objective than they have...
As for the buyer-side, my money is hard earned, when I spend it, I want to be sure I get the most and the best out of it. A market where I constantly wonder if I am getting really the best that market has to offer, or some second-tier distribution is just a bit less "enticing". On the buyer side it's just simple psychology folks. Sure, great vendor goes dark, someone else will jump in to fill gap. Be that as it may, the "hassle load" of purchasing here as is, ionno if I want "fillers", I want the primo. /ego trip off... lol
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Fast forward a month from now, and you have people like Warforge selling lists of direct URLs to stealthed vendors.
Not sure this is going to accomplish very much to be honest with you. It's certainly not going to be very effective in hiding vendors from LEO. It will do a decent job of protecting certain vendors from dealing with unestablished buyers, and perhaps that has some value, but it also has some pretty serious negatives...
besides, is it really that hard to just cancel an order from somebody you don't want to sell to?
It may not be hard to cancel but it can be bad for your reputation since when you cancel an order the buyer still has the option to leave feedback and as we have seen in the past these buyers are usually not happy so they are likely to give you a 1/5 rating.
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I think it's an interesting idea...
I can't help feeling like this all came about because i tore into pharmville though...the next day dude pulled all his listings and hasn't been back since. Then a week later, this - a solution to all his problems. No doubt, ill never be seeing him again... :P
They didn't arbitrarily pull their listing. They had a very good but very sad reason for having to do so. I thought you read about that? Guess that doesn't mean much to you given your issue with them. Sorry that you didn't have a good experience. I really am.
But it's definitely not about you (yes, I noticed the tongue sticking out smiley which denotes sarcasm/jest). But it's in part about the recent flood of new buyers because of increased site publicity. And now that there's a weaponized SR, there will a bit more publicity.
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Did this go into effect already? I noticed practically all of the LSD listings disappeared. This is going to seriously screw over my spring break plans :(
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I really like this idea.
Once a vender gets comfortable with their customer base, they can go off the grid and let some of the other sellers vi for the all the fresh blood. Helps new venders have a chance to get some business and old venders manage their que :)
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Thank you for the nice words and encouragement ~ Sometimes it can be rough; especially for those of us who work solo
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I think it's a good idea but calling the vendors hero's is a bit dramatic.
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I think this is a great idea, giving the vendors a little more security if they choose only benefits the community as a whole anyway.
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i applaud all the vendors who actively try to make this a great community by risking their neck everyday. and to DPR for not resting on his laurels and trying to improve this site any way he can. le won't and it's good for the SR to always be improving security methods.
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I think it's an interesting idea...
I can't help feeling like this all came about because i tore into pharmville though...the next day dude pulled all his listings and hasn't been back since. Then a week later, this - a solution to all his problems. No doubt, ill never be seeing him again... :P
They didn't arbitrarily pull their listing. They had a very good but very sad reason for having to do so. I thought you read about that? Guess that doesn't mean much to you given your issue with them. Sorry that you didn't have a good experience. I really am.
But it's definitely not about you (yes, I noticed the tongue sticking out smiley which denotes sarcasm/jest). But it's in part about the recent flood of new buyers because of increased site publicity. And now that there's a weaponized SR, there will a bit more publicity.
Dang benJ! what I can I say you totally right. :-[ :'( :-[ This was terribly insensitive of me, but I swear I didn't mean it like that. As you may know, I did read that I did post about pv and a couple times I said I was sorry about that, and I meant it. :'(
My first post WASsuspiciously vague, but promise I wasn't trying insinuating anything I just didn't want to air out my dirty laundry all up in the forums anymore than I already have (I would REALLY like to talk more about this in pm or SILB), but whatever, I'll go on. Once again as you are evidentally aware I have been "having it out with PV", but for no reason. you see I actually sent PV a prettttyyyy nasty little drunken pm that started out as an apology - trying to show how irrational my behavior WAS, only to sound irrational NOW - and then it just turned into this drunken belligerent nonesensical thing...I can only imagine how bad it really was, i havnt even re-read it yet, too embarrassed :-[ lol!
Furthermore I toatlly realize that it's not about me and that he was going through some hard times. That is precisely why I didn't want to spam his inbox with more of my bitchy bullshit (that meas my apology in shieldz language, btw) at a time when he wants nothing more than some peace and quiet. So I figured I'd wait until he was back to spam his inbox again ;))
ALL that said, I'm still going to re-pharse this post to do it justice. What I meant to say was...that I feel guilty I tore into PV like that. I"m sure he's pissed at me and I anted to apologize when he got back but now it looks like PV is going to get what he wants and I am forever going to feel like arse (meaning pv said he wanted an efficient way to deliver the service that his custos expect w/o the stress of SO many new customers because it's getting unpredictable and becoming impossible to keep up - I get it seriously I do, that's what I meant when I said PV's #1 figure it out" I literally meant figure it out get innovative with it, that's what #1 does in my mind - except dpr you're always #1) and I can't (and still can't) help feeling like it was my fault like I "brought this shit to a head" type of thing. Not that my order was sooo important that he ahd to re-shape his biz model...
I swear didn't know that tounge was smiley too. I for real was thinking shocked face but to me our shocked face looks too inquisitive and certainly insinuates more than tounge face (:o), imo. I was more thinking "fudge" without being too emotionally forthright(?), like a general that "bummer/not great" or more verbally, overall nuetral with a twinge of unhappy. I could have been less of an emotionally-gaurded, narcissistic prick about it and gone withsad face, but i'm not and I didn't. srry
Thanks BenJ! you better than a terapist holmes!! hahaha ;D.. jk :-X seriously jk my bad...
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Thanks, but I already know I'm a hero!
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Hey everyone,
What can I say about this awesome new feature but,
"cheers and thank you for making this site more awesome and unbelievable"
now if we can just do something about the email and the real need for a selectable "delete" feature. Oh well, one thing at a time huh
Peace 8)
Libby
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A very comforting addition. I appreciate this :)
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It continues to confuse me why DPR doesn't just allow the vendors to see more stats on the buyers. Total money spent is a huge barometer of a customer being a scammer or not.
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I like this idea, but I think it would be tons better if we could choose our listings to appear to people who have a certain number of buys already. This way the only way law enforcement can see what we are selling is if they buy tons of stuff on the market, which as far as I know, they do not.
Just give a variable option for us. Like, if I type in 10 then only people with 10 or more buys can see my listings. Now that would be amazing.
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It's a fine idea but can people stop throwing the word "hero" around.
You obviously are not a vendor :D
I like this idea, but I think it would be tons better if we could choose our listings to appear to people who have a certain number of buys already. This way the only way law enforcement can see what we are selling is if they buy tons of stuff on the market, which as far as I know, they do not.
Just give a variable option for us. Like, if I type in 10 then only people with 10 or more buys can see my listings. Now that would be amazing.
Yeah I am glad I can manage things a bit better. I don't really want newbie buyers to be able to see my massive drop shipping listings as I don't want to put my suppliers at risk. As it is now I deny anyone for drop shipping that doesn't have enough buys or seems sketchy. I have suppliers who sell 2c-b which is very very sensitive especially in China (it is illegal in China).
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It continues to confuse me why DPR doesn't just allow the vendors to see more stats on the buyers. Total money spent is a huge barometer of a customer being a scammer or not.
We can see all this on a buyer
Total transactions: 18
Total spent: $924.87
Refund rate: 0%
Auto-finalize rate: 2.67%
Member for: 3 months
I think this is excellent info to have
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if you have ordered from them before, you have their account page in your transaction history.
the more you know ====================*
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REAL MEN OF GENIUS!
We salute you pentium pablo escobars!! Playing World of Warcraft on your left monitor, slinging yak on your right monitor. Is that ma yelling from upstairs? It may be it may be. But that doesn't stop you...
Keep on keepin on.
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if you have ordered from them before, you have their account page in your transaction history.
the more you know ====================*
Yep.
But if you haven't ordered from them before, you won't have their account page in your transaction history.
The more you consider==================*
And that is the point of some here. They are not noobs and don't want to be treated like noobs and all the headaches that usually come with serving noobs. But they'd rather be treated as good members of the community that any vendor would have the pleasure of dealing with.
Sure, it's not as big a worry since most top vendors won't stay stealth for too long. Likely just when they need to take a break from increased influx of buyers. So if one is on often enough, they should catch them when they "de-cloak." And then some will PM with one another to reveal to URL. Or, someone might just post the URL to a cloaked vendor mistakenly or purposely on the forum. Lots of other scenarios I'm sure.
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It continues to confuse me why DPR doesn't just allow the vendors to see more stats on the buyers. Total money spent is a huge barometer of a customer being a scammer or not.
We can see all this on a buyer
Total transactions: 18
Total spent: $924.87
Refund rate: 0%
Auto-finalize rate: 2.67%
Member for: 3 months
I think this is excellent info to have
Are you saying as a vendor you can see that info from the buyers somehow?
Or are you just saying, buyers can see these stats. Because we all know about them, what we want is for vendors to be able to see them.
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I love chiming in on changes :)
This is a good idea. I have only been a seller for a little while and even with my lack of reviews the orders kept flying in. It depleted my supply I had saved for SR (most of the product went locally, and I will be keeping more on hand next harvest) very quickly and I was sending out more than 5 packages every monday. If I were a long time established vendor I couldn't imagine how much volume you would have to do.
Reasons why this is a good idea:
1) While it may not reduce your risk of an leo buying your items, it does allow you to cut down on the amount of packages you are taking to the post office daily. I didn't really get a giddy feeling hauling around 7 flat rate boxes with someone elses name on the return address.
2) When you get low on product you can be sure that only very interested buyers or previous buyers could get your product. I had to dissapoint a few people when I said that I won't have stock until mid-march. It would have been nice to be able to set aside a few for return customers as I care about them more.
3) The big timers seemingly have a hard time handling the logistics of so many packages and are the most likely to ghost. This allows new sellers to step in and create a name for themselves. I was hesitant to start selling marijuana when I saw how many listing there were. Now I know that it doesn't really matter though :)
4) If I want to take it easy for a few weeks I can ghost my listings so only returning customers can order. Giving myself a sort of vacation without alienating my customer base.
However, this could all be accomplished more easily with a return customer only checkbox. The only reason I have to ghost is to keep some product in stock for regulars and this would be a more appropriate option for me.
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I support stealth mode. It's a seller's market, we feel it hard as consumers in the lesser competitive categories. If a stealthed vendor doesn't want my business, I'm sure another would be glad to take the burden. And if there is some sort of mechanism to set threshold buyer stats for visibility, buyers (like myself, you?) will have ourselves to blame if we can't see products.
Realistically, if you are good at what you do--as a vendor--you could shout anti-Semitic slurs at Mossad agents in listings and sell guns to ATF agents without your whereabouts being compromised. If you are relying on stealth mode to keep you, and by extension me, safe; I'm not interested.
Stealth mode in my initial impression seems like just another way for the media to attack us and claim the child predators use the stealth mode to peddle child-porn. And they very well may be. I'll be right back, I'm opening a stealth seller account to sell human traffic. Anyone interested in a 117-year-old triathlete? Not house trained, though he is good with children.
Oh, never mind. I forgot I'm invisible.
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all the people complaining here seems it's buyers. You don't understand that if your a big mover and have low prices LE while go after you more than another vendor. I guess you just have to trust the vendors rep but I support this. Buyers don't care because they are not the ones LE wants more likely. I could care less if I lose most my business for piece of mind.
I'm not obtuse towards your plight at all mate. It's a valid point. But then tell me, how are you gonna make sure none of your "invited" buyers aren't LE?
I'm not gonna rail against this anymore or try to debunk it, decision's been made we all gotta live with that. All I'm saying to your point is just taking your offerings of the front page offers an added security layer that is minimal to non-existent. All LE needs to do is hang on the forums. By your logic (and I'm not belittling it or anything, as I said, the point has validity to some extent) the next logical step would be to remove seller review threads, because after all, a seller with a lot of good reviews will easily become an LE target, no?
I agree with you absolutely. But thats why I'm only gonna accept customers for three more weeks and try to go private for the customers that like my serive and nobody else.
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=13458.0
This alleviates the majority of my concerns...
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It continues to confuse me why DPR doesn't just allow the vendors to see more stats on the buyers. Total money spent is a huge barometer of a customer being a scammer or not.
We can see all this on a buyer
Total transactions: 18
Total spent: $924.87
Refund rate: 0%
Auto-finalize rate: 2.67%
Member for: 3 months
I think this is excellent info to have
Are you saying as a vendor you can see that info from the buyers somehow?
Or are you just saying, buyers can see these stats. Because we all know about them, what we want is for vendors to be able to see them.
Vendors can see this info by clicking on the stats on an order.
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Vendors can see this info by clicking on the stats on an order.
This is great, but even better we would be able to click on any user's name and see their buyer stats. I'll get a PM from someone and say 'sure, if your stats are good I can do a custom listing for that'. But I can't see their stats until they buy something...this is good to promote getting a buyer/seller relationship but I wonder what I miss out on because I don't really trust them till they buy an item. On the other hand I usually don't hear from them again so yeah...take it for what it is.
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Opening post updated
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[quote link=topic=13347.msg128073#msg128073 date=1330321312]
It's a fine idea but can people stop throwing the word "hero" around.
[/quote]
These people risk life in prison to make this whole thing possible. Risking your life to help others (whether their motivations are selfish or not) is heroic in my book.
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These people risk life in prison to make this whole thing possible. Risking your life to help others (whether their motivations are selfish or not) is heroic in my book.
Prison wouldn't be too bad, as long as your mind is right! ;)
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These people risk life in prison to make this whole thing possible. Risking your life to help others (whether their motivations are selfish or not) is heroic in my book.
Amen to that!
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These people risk life in prison to make this whole thing possible. Risking your life to help others (whether their motivations are selfish or not) is heroic in my book.
Wouldn't that make buyers even more heroic? :P
After all, we are the ones handing out our address to perfect strangers, basically broadcasting years worth of incarceration to people we have never seen rather than going downtown where we have a much broader picture as to how risky a situation might be? Of course all in the name of our ideals to further free markets and liberty for all humans to do with their bodies as they please :P
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These people risk life in prison to make this whole thing possible. Risking your life to help others (whether their motivations are selfish or not) is heroic in my book.
Wouldn't that make buyers even more heroic? :P
After all, we are the ones handing out our address to perfect strangers, basically broadcasting years worth of incarceration to people we have never seen rather than going downtown where we have a much broader picture as to how risky a situation might be? Of course all in the name of our ideals to further free markets and liberty for all humans to do with their bodies as they please :P
Well, compare the average prison sentence you get as a buyer or as a seller.
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In the US at least, that would be entirely arbitrary. I've done time. I've seen guys that moved kilos a week get less time than a second-time speed users. More is not always more, sometimes it's the opposite, especially where the US justice system is involved....
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In the US at least, that would be entirely arbitrary. I've done time. I've seen guys that moved kilos a week get less time than a second-time speed users. More is not always more, sometimes it's the opposite, especially where the US justice system is involved....
How odd! Where I live, sentences are always proportional to volume, among other things. For A to get a heavier sentence than B having moved less of the same drug, there'd have to be evidence that police were bribed, or that his crime somehow involved greater risk to the public welfare or something along those lines. Or, of course, if A were a repeat offender and B were not, or if B made some sort of deal to rat out C.
But all else being equal, it makes no sense for someone who only moves drugs for personal use and friends to get a harsher sentence than a trafficker... then again, it makes no sense for most of these drugs to be illegal in the first place, so why should anything else about drug laws be rational?
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We can see all this on a buyer
Total transactions: 18
Total spent: $924.87
Refund rate: 0%
Auto-finalize rate: 2.67%
Member for: 3 months
I think this is excellent info to have
Are you saying as a vendor you can see that info from the buyers somehow?
Or are you just saying, buyers can see these stats. Because we all know about them, what we want is for vendors to be able to see them.
(Vendors can see this info by clicking on the stats on an order.)
Well i take it all back and apologize for my ignorance. I was never aware of this feature and have been flying
in the dark this whole time. How long has this been available? I feel like a complete boob..
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We can see all this on a buyer
Total transactions: 18
Total spent: $924.87
Refund rate: 0%
Auto-finalize rate: 2.67%
Member for: 3 months
I think this is excellent info to have
Are you saying as a vendor you can see that info from the buyers somehow?
Or are you just saying, buyers can see these stats. Because we all know about them, what we want is for vendors to be able to see them.
(Vendors can see this info by clicking on the stats on an order.)
Well i take it all back and apologize for my ignorance. I was never aware of this feature and have been flying
in the dark this whole time. How long has this been available? I feel like a complete boob..
It could be a new feature, I'm a new vendor so I thought it was always there :)
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I think it's been available since before you started vending lol.
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I don't quite understand how this would work. Will there still be regular listings with the vendor name? I'm just asking because i don't wanna be stuck buying from low end dealers if all the good ones are hidden. It's a constant process of research and observation to find good vendors.
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can I second that motion? it's a rather good idea.
suppose you had a personal key created between you and a merchant - a random key that SR remembers to use to redirect you to a certain vendor. Here you can see their products, and order them - without even needing to see their vendor ID. You could spread the vendor between friends by suggesting another link, that the vendor can then chose to accept or deny, etc.
Buyers would have a 'folder' storing a list of these keys, with some order or notes they want to put next to it. These keys individually are useless, as you cannot draw vendor information back out of them
1Would it be possible to randomize one's own profile addresses? Because LE could just copy the popular vendors profile .onion address now before anyone has a chance to go stealth, also any customer could leak the address to the public. It would be ideal to be able to switch up .onion addresses at will, then update customer base.
Explain to me then how your supposed to find your vendor?
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If I was a vendor Id want to take every precaution I could. As a newbie buyer I want as much access as I can get. Once vendors start losing new customers, their sales will slowly decrease then they will want more new ones.
Things will probably balance themselves out.
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Congrats SR on the updates. Hidden listings will be a good thing, as people can always post on the forums if they are looking for a vendor, and vendors can check out potential new customers.
Hats off the the other heros. If I've bought from you twice, you know you have my full respect. ;)
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I'm sorry, I'm pondering all the elements brought forward but I'm still not pacified. Why?
a) "outgrowing your logistics" That is fallacious. The proper response by a vendor not able to fulfill his orders anymore is "less offers", not offers reduced to a select circle of people. 100 orders are 100 orders. Dun make any difference if they are from previous customers or new ones, unless of course you'd keep a database, which certainly you don't, do you now? For all intents and purposes, the "logistics" of EVERY order should be the same whether it is a new or a returning customer.
b) We are purporting to be proponents of the "Free Market". There are two schools pertaining to this though. One is, to say a market is only free if a seller can freely decide whom to sell to, and who not. The other is, to say a market can only be free if every participant of that market can have equal access to all available info and resources. This is clearly not the case if reputed/reliable sellers withdraw from the public market in knee-jerk reactions to an isolated case of feedback extortionists trying to hogg some free product. To the detriment of ALL buyers.
c) Lets say vendor A has a really great hookup for primo speed at a very fair price, but obviously, a limited supply. Now obviously this vendor will find plenty opportunities to sell his primo goods. But aside from his transactions, he also has an impact on the overall market, in that his market presence offers incentive for others to lower their prices also in order to compete. Now since this vendor has a limited supply, and obviously a strong interest in risk mitigation, it is only natural that he will go stealth, makes perfect sense........in this individual sellers perspective. However, sellers of primo goods going stealth, removes the incentive for other sellers to also lower their prices / improve quality to be able to compete. In fact, a driving actuator of market leverage is taken out of the equation. The best sellers will have the biggest run on their product hence being the first to go stealth. Thus their offerings are removed from regular market dynamics. Is this really what a market needs that already has a price premium over IRL?
d) Can you even imagine the frustration level if you're roaming the seller feedbacks to find the best vendor of your drug of choice, just to then find out...DUH....gone stealth. This type of frustration is one of the things that made me give up buying in the club. Everyone raving about XYZs pills, and you're the shmuck not getting any, cuz sowwy pal, private party buyers only.
I'm basing all this on a lot of assumptions, I'd happily be proven wrong. But it is what it is. Your protection from exposure should be being here. Being behind TOR, behind SR, with doing your due diligence on your security measures and practices. The idea that you become any safer as seller if you cut off after the 100th 200th 500th customer is fallacious at best.
I can understand the current atmosphere of sellers wanting a bit more protection, but afaict this is mainly because of a few rotten apple feedback extortionists. To take that as an opportunity to create exclusive "members only" clubs is detrimental to the market overall, and might be counter productive. I'm already thinking, will I be invited to buy from a "good" seller ever again if I dare to give a 3 instead of a 5 for having had to wait 4 weeks for my shit?
Sowwy folks. A lot of good shit was thought up by SR lately. The feedback overhaul, separation of guns and drugs, excellent solutions. This however, I can't say I agree with, because it creates too much leverage for the supply-side. Basically we're going from "ha I'll extort a dimebag by threatening with bad feedback" to "gimme a good feedback or you won't get in the big boys clubs anymore"
I'm 55 years old, grew up in the age of Woodstock, Jimmy Hendrix, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin.
I have used various pharmaceuticals (responsibly) all my life.
I agree with Johnnywholesome's statement one hundred percent...
As a newcomer to SR I've been intrigued and impressed and overjoyed at this wonderful place. Now I see this development, and I feel terribly let down and disheartened. It's taken me two months to scan and read about and decide on vendors, to work out how to use encryption and to acquire some coins. To finally and tentatively make a purchase or two a few days ago, sticking to all the rules and etiquet, and in general just wallowing in the freedom and magic of a site I have been wishing for even before the inception of the internet...
I work hard to afford my recreational drugs.
Now I feel despondent at the possible 'elite club' looming on the horizon...
Don't rob SR of it's magic.
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I think differentiating between mega stores and the mom & pops is likely a good thing. I think that the proposed customization feature will slow the growth of SR as newbies will have less access to the mega-stores. This will not likely be a pricing issue, but a supply and variety problem. That said, clearly greater protections are needed for both buyers and sellers as it would seem that LE is making inroads via forced "bank" compliance with AML. If you've felt any of the past few weeks' "random" fails, closures, or changes in policy across the BTC world it would be reasonable to assume that a strategic plan of attack is underway.
Personally, I can see that the stats that are posted for buyers and sellers, public and private are too revealing. LE seller, fishes for frequent buyers or large dollar buyers... I think simple is better. % disputes, plus three levels, 1st timer, newbie, safe mode enabled (meaning has a lot of buys or bought a USB or some sort of basic security)
I also think that the operating paradigm should be to embed "anti-entrapment" language into all agreements especially buyer-seller interoperability. And I also think that both DCNs and green dot are likely to become huge traps b/c with neural nets and profiling, mega-store sellers become targets and the picture becomes more detailed over the course of time.
In this same vein, I think that a great use of the crafty brains that is SR could be to devise a system whereby Sellers can shift into new online identities with some sort of algorithm for recognizing past success. Maybe just a simple 3 point system Gold, Silver, Bronze. Less gratifying but strength in numbers. This way, LE has to start from the beginning or find a infallible link between the two accounts. I also think that there should be more check boxes and less text in seller descriptions.
Finally, perhaps we should all consider the wisdom of creating a simple cheap Buyer USB that can be purchased or self made but mandatory after a certain $ amount or # of purchases. Coupled with similar options at various price points for all sellers. If we ALL wear condoms... as strong as the weakest link....
If I had more time, this message would be shorter,
Bookish
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It's a fine idea but can people stop throwing the word "hero" around.
Hah agreed. It sounds like Stephen Colbert dropping 'heros' every 3 seconds to describe his viewers.
I'm NOT downplaying the service and awesome-ness-itude (yup just invented that word) high quality vendors provide SR community.
I fucking abso-balls-lutely LOVE all you great sellers, but lets be real here folks.
'heros' is a tad hyperbolic, no? It's not like SR vendors are saving AIDS orphans from the world trade center on 9/11.
Just my .02cents
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It's a fine idea but can people stop throwing the word "hero" around.
Hah agreed. It sounds like Stephen Colbert dropping 'heros' every 3 seconds to describe his viewers.
I'm NOT downplaying the service and awesome-ness-itude (yup just invented that word) high quality vendors provide SR community.
I fucking abso-balls-lutely LOVE all you great sellers, but lets be real here folks.
'heros' is a tad hyperbolic, no? It's not like SR vendors are saving AIDS orphans from the world trade center on 9/11.
Just my .02cents
Actually it can be demonstrably argued that world peace, world hunger, AIDS, terrorist attacks, etc., are all easily solved by allowing completely unfettered trade and free markets between all people. "When goods cross borders, soldiers won't" I believe is the saying.
I'm just a miniscule speck in the massive organism that is the world economy, but who knows? I might have already saved someone getting mugged, beaten up, killed, or poisoned by laced product or having to choose inferior synthetics. All by offering them a peaceful, violence-free alternative to obtaining drugs in the physical black market.
Imagine how much good the legit opiate vendors are doing on here...... Compared to ghetto cruising, I would definitely say they are providing a "heroic" alternative...
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It's a fine idea but can people stop throwing the word "hero" around.
Hah agreed. It sounds like Stephen Colbert dropping 'heros' every 3 seconds to describe his viewers.
I'm NOT downplaying the service and awesome-ness-itude (yup just invented that word) high quality vendors provide SR community.
I fucking abso-balls-lutely LOVE all you great sellers, but lets be real here folks.
'heros' is a tad hyperbolic, no? It's not like SR vendors are saving AIDS orphans from the world trade center on 9/11.
Just my .02cents
Actually it can be demonstrably argued that world peace, world hunger, AIDS, terrorist attacks, etc., are all easily solved by allowing completely unfettered trade and free markets between all people. "When goods cross borders, soldiers won't" I believe is the saying.
I'm just a miniscule speck in the massive organism that is the world economy, but who knows? I might have already saved someone getting mugged, beaten up, killed, or poisoned by laced product or having to choose inferior synthetics. All by offering them a peaceful, violence-free alternative to obtaining drugs in the physical black market.
Imagine how much good the legit opiate vendors are doing on here...... Compared to ghetto cruising, I would definitely say they are providing a "heroic" alternative...
You make a valid point Anarcho. But guess we have to agree to disagree.
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It's a fine idea but can people stop throwing the word "hero" around.
Hah agreed. It sounds like Stephen Colbert dropping 'heros' every 3 seconds to describe his viewers.
I'm NOT downplaying the service and awesome-ness-itude (yup just invented that word) high quality vendors provide SR community.
I fucking abso-balls-lutely LOVE all you great sellers, but lets be real here folks.
'heros' is a tad hyperbolic, no? It's not like SR vendors are saving AIDS orphans from the world trade center on 9/11.
Just my .02cents
Actually it can be demonstrably argued that world peace, world hunger, AIDS, terrorist attacks, etc., are all easily solved by allowing completely unfettered trade and free markets between all people. "When goods cross borders, soldiers won't" I believe is the saying.
I'm just a miniscule speck in the massive organism that is the world economy, but who knows? I might have already saved someone getting mugged, beaten up, killed, or poisoned by laced product or having to choose inferior synthetics. All by offering them a peaceful, violence-free alternative to obtaining drugs in the physical black market.
Imagine how much good the legit opiate vendors are doing on here...... Compared to ghetto cruising, I would definitely say they are providing a "heroic" alternative...
You make a valid point Anarcho. But guess we have to agree to disagree.
I don't think we're really disagreeing - I'm just saying there is a context here. And no, I do no wear a mask and cape while I'm packaging up my goodies to send off to all four corners of the planet... ;)
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Yeah looks like this could go two ways, and one of them would make the site very daunting for new users. It's not like the site is inundated with sellers we could do with many more imo
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I don't think we're really disagreeing - I'm just saying there is a context here. And no, I do no wear a mask and cape while I'm packaging up my goodies to send off to all four corners of the planet... ;)
Well Anarcho you just absolutely RUINED how I envision all top-notch SR vendors....
Please tell me you atleast have a utility belt with lots of gadgets?! ;D
"Where does he get all those WONDERFUL toys?"
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I don't think we're really disagreeing - I'm just saying there is a context here. And no, I do no wear a mask and cape while I'm packaging up my goodies to send off to all four corners of the planet... ;)
Well Anarcho you just absolutely RUINED how I envision all top-notch SR vendors....
Please tell me you atleast have a utility belt with lots of gadgets?! ;D
"Where does he get all those WONDERFUL toys?"
well, maybe I do sometimes throw on a cape just to spice things up a bit. But if you picture a handsome devil in what is pretty-much-a-hazmat-suit while packaging, you've got me pegged ;)
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It's a bird, it's a plane, no it's anarcho47!
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It's a bird, it's a plane, no it's anarcho47!
I just karma'd you up for that. What do you think, should I adopt it as my new business slogan, or what?
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Thank you sir!
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It's a bird, it's a plane, no it's anarcho47!
I LOL'd
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Great Idea!
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I think that any attempt to make the market easier to manage for the vendors is great, but that being said I also think that this is a step towards encouraging a "private market" mentality which goes against all that SR stands for. At every opportunity we should, as a community, try to be inclusive towards newer buyers. When I made my first purchase a few months ago, I was amazed by the variety of products and the eagerness of vendors to help me understand the system better. I would hate to see anything less for those who are new to the community. :-\
I totally agree BC cos all us noobs have to start somewhere !!!
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Yeah - as a newbie (ish), i too agree this might be lame for us. I've been working to establish a good rep as a good buyer, but this may block me off from some of the best vendors. Which is a shame. Oh well I guess.. first world problems.
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Why don't you just put back the S.R. to the way it was?
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I don't think we're really disagreeing - I'm just saying there is a context here. And no, I do no wear a mask and cape while I'm packaging up my goodies to send off to all four corners of the planet... ;)
Well Anarcho you just absolutely RUINED how I envision all top-notch SR vendors....
Please tell me you atleast have a utility belt with lots of gadgets?! ;D
"Where does he get all those WONDERFUL toys?"
well, maybe I do sometimes throw on a cape just to spice things up a bit. But if you picture a handsome devil in what is pretty-much-a-hazmat-suit while packaging, you've got me pegged ;)
This is a great idea for a new super hero, saving the world one anonymous transaction at a time...
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I've been here a LONG time, but I don't buy very often, and when I do, it's usually from different vendors, just because I like trying new stuff.
Restricting your content only for frequent buyers will hurt me a lot! With 420 coming up, I'll need to purchase a LARGE amount of goods, and if I can't find good deals for high quality stuff, my entire day, no, my LIFE could be potentially ruined.
Please only go stealth if you're in danger! Otherwise, stay public so anyone who has money can buy from you.
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this seems scary. all a LE would have to do is create a new free sample listing for "full" members, look at their stats and see who spends a lot of money to find out who are resellers.
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i completely agree that these vendor are in fact heroes. they work very hard, and have to deal with constant bitching, not to mention that the silkroad is getting huge. it is a lot diffrent than when i joined 8 months ago. many more scammers, and people who take this service for granted. i came here to get mdma because where i live it is completely non existant. im amazed at being able to get top quality pills, and molly. if an order doesnt arrive i normally just eat the loss, because i know that the vendors must pay for this too. its a full time job, and im sure it doesnt help when people leave feedback such as: "(1/5) two of the pills came crushed and it came a 2 later than it said on his page, mabey in the future he needs to change this shitty service"---(AAkovens page). it makes me sick to read feedback like this. this will be the demise of this website, vendors will quickly get sick of such cocky little fuckers. it used to not be this way. but back on topic, i think this is a very good idea. this would help a great deal if vendors have too many orders, or if they dont want to expand their operation anymore. it would however be very easy to find the vendors page with this feature.
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So maybe this explains why the number of US coke vendors has dried up. I have >30 transactions with 0% refund rate but buy from a variety of vendors. Now, I have no idea where the "hero" vendors are. I understand the theory, but it's not like I'm a noobie, I just don't buy from the same vendor all the time. Guess I'm screwed.
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I don't think that the Stealth Mode is going to be as bad as people think. If the listing is not searchable sellers will notice a LARGE drop in sales. Even the most reliable buyer might turn away if the seller goes in complete Stealth Mode and stops offering products on public pages. People don't like to wait, and having to message the seller so he can message you back so you can look at the picture of the item you're buying and it's description sounds ridiculous. Also I think thank most reliable, high ranking sellers have thought well about their security and have multiple backup plans and loopholes in case LE gets involved. Another point I want to make is that like other people have said there's A LOT of us here on SR who don't go above $100 per order. Usually these quantities can be packaged and sent off using any of the mailboxes on the street without having to go through the Post Office. So the only thing a seller has to worry about is the return address that they provide, and I'm sure that 99% of sellers have a reliable fake address that they use in case the item gets seized in the mail. So yea, it's nice to see SR is thinking of those few scenarios where a seller might want to be hidden.
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Yeah, I haven't bothered to add any vendor as a "fan", so I guess that's their loss and my loss?
It's up to them, but I'm not gonna add every vendor as a fan just so I can see one or two goods that I can buy.
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Just added the first vendor that sent me a sample on SR NorCalKing.
The sample was nicely sized and very well packaged :)
Titan's haze is definitely a strain that I am going to need to try again.
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Sesampino.
His coke has a lot of repeat customers. True there might be better quality out there sometimes but I do not htink Sesampino would sell low quality - actually - he has some labelled as such but that is honesty.
He went out of his way for me like no other vendor has.
His delivery is FAST and shipping method as good as they get.
Acetone wash took off 10% of one batch.
The fish-scale (now sold out I presume) was costly but no washing needed. I was blown away by it. 100mg lasted a night! That is fine coke!
I am UK so getting some decent quality coke was great. This put UK style coke to shame. I NEVER buy UK coke since the 90s when we had so many tons coming in of top grade coke that even dealers had the original block for 'special customers'. Even the cut coke was good!
There are some quibbles over quality re Sesampino but every coke dealer has that.
Little though I may buy this coke I'd like to treat my women to an 8-ball which would last her a year!
I will wash and hopefully lose 10% of the stuff that was in the original block. No imported block of cocaine is 'pure'. Every last dealer in the world can sell quality that is cut 10%. Nobody would notice if coke was 70 or 80% pure. In the UK even the usual 10-20% coke sells each week to the tune of millions of pounds. Friday night? In the UK? A ton of coke will be shifted.
So I will stick with Sesampino and will be honest about quality. I am a UK coke user who uses a few times per year. Not an expert but I did use the quality we used to have in the UK. I felt like a KING on it - and chatting women up you always aim high! On beer I aim for the gutter. Or used to. lol.
So Sesampinio - he always delivers, I doubt one of his packages would be intercepted.
His coke, for UK users, is a step in the right direction. Sure you can take a chance with new vendors, but Ses has been here 8 months and its a fast turnaround. You order, finalize if your a new customer or have few transactions. 3 days later odds are you will be looking at your package. you will open up the sealed bag and weight the product and it will be correct.
I'd wash all cocaine unless someone done it for me.
I actually look forward to getting some more coke and have enough left to have another good three nights out! That is six nights out from a coke costing almost £100 a gram! Break it down, it was actually good value for money as I had a real special time. No wish to fiend the stuff. No comedown. Nose stuffy for an hour the next day but fine.
I wish I was a coke head so I could buy more off Sesampino as way of saying thankyou!
Well maybe not. Coke ought to be a special occasion event. I also think it ought to be a social lubricant. You ought to want to be in company but if you like to sit and have an 8 ball to yourself then its your life. I liked to sit in with speed. Work on stuff.
OK got to go.
Sesampino is my hero. But he is a guy so I am not going to swoon over him! I would shake his hand and say thanks to him.
Say what you will this vendor has been here 8 months and has helped the SR seem like a place were you can get quality coke. for UK persons, men and woman, we appreciate fine cocaine for that special night.
Thanks ses!
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A vendor could keep separate accounts, one for small transactions and a stealth account for large transactions. In other words, some transactions are stealthy while others aren't. This would give sellers more safety and control.
On the other hand, if a buyer is trusted then why do they need to use Silk Road to make a transaction?
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And
we all add up!
little by little :)
'til nobody can stop us.
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Said it in his comments, but Cozmo has been nothing but superb as a vendor. The Aus vendors are low in number, and (understandably) high in price (doctor shopping is hard here, and if you're importing from overseas as wholesale you're facing serious transport costs and a federal police that is more efficient than most with this kind of stuff). But Cozmo comes up with prices that are quite incredible considering (I speak as someone who gets benzos on script, so I have an excellent basis for comparison both in terms of price and difficulty of running a vendor operation), and is a rare gentleman in this business.
In drug trades, we're all pretty much used to the assumption that people will screw you if and when they ever get the chance - it's the ultimate in 'buyer beware'. Cozmo is the reverse of that: he is fast, efficient, safe and absolutely meticulous when it comes to providing good service. Frankly, as a lawyer-turned-academic, I almost want to talk the guy out of it - he seems like too nice a guy to risk being shut behind bars by some asshole prohibition legislation.
Otherwise, I can't recommend his stuff highly enough.
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The dynamics of this community are so fascinating and exciting to me. I'm so glad to be a part of it, even if it is mostly as a spectator/small timer. Although I'm fresh to the scene and may change my opinion later, currently as a buyer, I'm totally cool with stealth mode. Even though I have come across some stellar vendors in teh forums that I am excluded from b/c of it and that kinda sucks. Small but painful sacrifice shouldn't be a problem if long term benefits are expected.
I came here looking for Brutusk reviews, tho.
I love that man, man!! *bawls*
Not to be a kiss ass but, Dread Pirate is my biggest hero, for many reasons. :P
VLR!
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Starlight Express has earned the right to be called a hero. He is such a nice guy, and has his business down to a T. He is also very helpful and willing to take money out of his pocket to make sure his loyal customers are happy. He has been around for awhile and I hope it stays that way.
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I am new to SR, and reading through this forum I agree that based on several points this is not a good idea, is this stealth mode now active? I have to agree that it will be bad for noobs and also promote allot of scammers...
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There are heroes among us here at Silk Road. Every day they risk their lives, fortunes, and precious liberty for us. They are on the front lines making tough decisions and working their asses off to make this market what it is. Of course I am talking about our vendors. I won't try to acknowledge them individually because we are blessed with so many extraordinary people who have stepped up to the task and taken it upon themselves to find a way to stock the shelves at Silk Road. They labor tirelessly to balance the heavy responsibilities they've taken on. From customer support, to supply chain and inventory management, to promotion, to quality control, to risk management and mitigation, to IT, to Bitcoin finance, to order fulfillment, and on and on, these guys and gals are professionals that are rising to the top of their game.
You know exactly how it feels bro.