Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: warweed on February 20, 2012, 07:07 am

Title: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: warweed on February 20, 2012, 07:07 am
Ok I have been in talks with DPR and he suggested i post this the existing thread however I think it will be lost in all the messages in response just to the Original Post

Here is my though I like the current feeback system and I also understand the need for the new feedback system (now in place) due to people like me selling Digital Goods it was certainly needed and even people racking up there own feedback HOWEVER I don't think it is simply enough

and here is why lets say hypothetically I become a vendor I sell I dunno 50 grams of I dunno say MDMA I rack up descent "cred" now I decide I want to sell  a much more expensive drug and desirable drug say it's H I can now use my cred to rip people

Here is my proposed new feedback system
--------------------------------------------------------------------
It should still be designed similarly to the way it is right now (the new feedback system)
However it should be broken down so that a User is rated on the product in each individual category and reflected as such this should refine how and what the vendor has sold and what there rank is in that category  and also the individual items should be ranked based on feedback especially on vendors that sell the same item like 300 times going through page after page of feedback can be challenging

subsequently a vendor should also not be able to sell some bomb weed and then sell some shitty K and then the feedback be based as a whole it should be broken down so a buyer can make a informed choice

ALSO Another issue arises say a vendor does 45 sales a day he decides after selling some awesome weed he is going to buy some cut mdma and flip it on SR for some profit 90% of people don't bitch and complain but 10% does what stops the vendor from removing that item and then making a new one the exact same so the page based stats are gone and now a buyer is forced to rifle through a ass ton of feedback to find info on a item that's not listed anymore


SR/ DPR Is trying to create somthing wonderful but he has to "balance" privacy carefully but what i don't understand is why .. if i buy herion or weed or crack or coke why does it matter if another vendor knows what i have bought im a online persona I honestly think vendors are getting the short end of the stick a bit in regards to making a informed transaction between a vendor and a buyer because there are infact rippers on both sides

So i would love to hear your feedback in regards to my proposal and then see if you can make some additions to how we can tweak it a bit then I can break it down chop it up submit my proposal further to SR and see what happens maybe he likes the idea and creates another thread takes another vote and impliments




Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: warweed on February 20, 2012, 10:17 am
Thoughts anyone ??
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: warweed on February 21, 2012, 05:03 am
bump for a bit of feedback
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Beneficial)
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on February 21, 2012, 05:46 am
Ok I have been in talks with DPR and he suggested i post this the existing thread however I think it will be lost in all the messages in response just to the Original Post

Here is my though I like the current feeback system and I also understand the need for the new feedback system (now in place) due to people like me selling Digital Goods it was certainly needed and even people racking up there own feedback HOWEVER I don't think it is simply enough

and here is why lets say hypothetically I become a vendor I sell I dunno 50 grams of I dunno say MDMA I rack up descent "cred" now I decide I want to sell  a much more expensive drug and desirable drug say it's H I can now use my cred to rip people

Here is my proposed new feedback system
--------------------------------------------------------------------
It should still be designed similarly to the way it is right now (the new feedback system)
However it should be broken down so that a User is rated on the product in each individual category and reflected as such this should refine how and what the vendor has sold and what there rank is in that category  and also the individual items should be ranked based on feedback especially on vendors that sell the same item like 300 times going through page after page of feedback can be challenging

subsequently a vendor should also not be able to sell some bomb weed and then sell some shitty K and then the feedback be based as a whole it should be broken down so a buyer can make a informed choice

ALSO Another issue arises say a vendor does 45 sales a day he decides after selling some awesome weed he is going to buy some cut mdma and flip it on SR for some profit 90% of people don't bitch and complain but 10% does what stops the vendor from removing that item and then making a new one the exact same so the page based stats are gone and now a buyer is forced to rifle through a ass ton of feedback to find info on a item that's not listed anymore


SR/ DPR Is trying to create somthing wonderful but he has to "balance" privacy carefully but what i don't understand is why .. if i buy herion or weed or crack or coke why does it matter if another vendor knows what i have bought im a online persona I honestly think vendors are getting the short end of the stick a bit in regards to making a informed transaction between a vendor and a buyer because there are infact rippers on both sides

So i would love to hear your feedback in regards to my proposal and then see if you can make some additions to how we can tweak it a bit then I can break it down chop it up submit my proposal further to SR and see what happens maybe he likes the idea and creates another thread takes another vote and impliments

- as a buyer i don't mind being rated according to what i've bought per category -this is a more positive way of promoting experience based on the product bought and
  the weight it has versus what else is on offer.
         - this helps a vendor determine what the scamming phase the buyer is up to / or not -this buyer has good feedback for a product i sell...

- buying something from a vendor i would like to see a more granular rating level per category, to have piece of mind that i'm buying a consistently quality product
  of my choice. I have no real way of determining what the current product rating is whether its what the vendors specialises in nor trying to separate it from the  overall vendor experience has been.


- the privacy issues,: the ratings need to come out into the open for everyone to be able to weigh their authenticity, rather than being left buried in the system or being
  pressurised into leaving feedback and for the purpose of distinguishing between what a vendor has sold -ebook Versus mdma....

  it exposes what a vendor has been selling which is a good thing...

  the predicament arises by providing the feedback on each item bought not too provide too much data like quantity nor cost, item desc & feedback + rating is enough detail, if it means someone could profile me as a buyer seeing what i buy i have to waive that as long as feedback is a 2-way process.



Selling an ebook might seem to be an easy job but someone has collected them...
Building an automated billing and its service requires thought and coding...
Packaging a whole lot of orders individually is also labour intensive...technology usually takes a back seat here..
Providing the best of both worlds requires technical skill aside from intricacy and dedication into packaging and which both sides are guilty of - People skills.

Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: warweed on February 21, 2012, 08:29 am
a very insightful post thank you :)
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: OldGuard on February 21, 2012, 01:04 pm
I do not care if someone is the #2 seller on SR or the number #300 seller on SR all I care about is the feedback they receive from previous buyers for the product I am interested in. This is not some competition to see who is number one, just look around you some of the biggest (#1) companies in the world are ones who I would never buy from because of their unethical business practices all in the name of being making money and being #1.

The best sellers are always more interested in providing quality service and products to their customers at fair prices not being thought of by certain people to be a top 10 seller on the site. If vendors spend their time satisfying customers instead of worrying about what is essentially a meaningless ranking they have things will go well for them.

As we have seen in the past on SR some of the top ranked sellers on this site did a cash grab when things started to go bad for them (including things outside SR) so where they rank should mean little to the average buyer. Smart buyers only care about the feedback (especially recent) vendors have received from their customers not some meaningless rank based on unknown formulas they probably cannot understand.
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: username456 on February 21, 2012, 01:39 pm
Warweed got your eBook "How to get Laid" still not got laid, what gives?
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: cacoethes on February 21, 2012, 05:50 pm
I do not care if someone is the #2 seller on SR or the number #300 seller on SR all I care about is the feedback they receive from previous buyers for the product I am interested in. This is not some competition to see who is number one, just look around you some of the biggest (#1) companies in the world are ones who I would never buy from because of their unethical business practices all in the name of being making money and being #1.

The best sellers are always more interested in providing quality service and products to their customers at fair prices not being thought of by certain people to be a top 10 seller on the site. If vendors spend their time satisfying customers instead of worrying about what is essentially a meaningless ranking they have things will go well for them.

As we have seen in the past on SR some of the top ranked sellers on this site did a cash grab when things started to go bad for them (including things outside SR) so where they rank should mean little to the average buyer. Smart buyers only care about the feedback (especially recent) vendors have received from their customers not some meaningless rank based on unknown formulas they probably cannot understand.

This, exactly.  I take the time to READ THE FEEDBACK of the product I am interested in purchasing.  The feedback paints a picture of the product, and of the seller.

I also take the time to use the information in the forums to corroborate a seller's feedback...  If one supports the other, then I consider the seller to be vetted enough for me to make an informed decision.

I recently broke my own rules, and took a chance on a new vendor I wasn't sure about, thinking that everyone has to start somewhere.  Now I regret that decision, but it's my own fault...  Besides, I never play with more money than I'm willing to lose.
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: RickyRango on February 22, 2012, 12:03 am
Something else I'd like to bring up is dealing with buyers leaving retarded feedback.  99% of SR users are great to deal with, but every now and then there's a few who just take the fucking cake.  For example, someone bought a digital product off me.  The listing specifically said it's for Americans and I can't guarantee it can be used international, but he orders it anyway and gives me a 2, saying, "Great for Americans but not for The Netherlands."  Well no fucking shit, that's why I wrote the warning in the item's description!  Currently I have no protection against shit like this, and I've even messaged support several times with no clear response.  I could go on with more ridiculous bullshit other people have left on my account, but I digress.

Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Beneficial)
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on February 22, 2012, 03:21 am
- as already suggested the current seller #1 - 250 ratings are meaningless and redundant as there are a real mix of products and services sold and its the "rating"
  & 2-way feedback {seller<--> buyer} per category thats of use.

-  there are a loads of SR suggestions regarding status', flags to indicate when sellers are available, data needs to be exposed and summarised all of which will require
   extra code and interface design; we also dont want to micro manage sellers nor buyers but both sides need to see at a glance what action to take or where some
   product is in the process, obviously the interface shouldn't be cluttered with colours and buttons -so a balance of usability Versus simplicity.


- more privacy issues: bulk / bigger orders between vendors placed thru the normal escrow system (?) should possibly be excluded from public visibility
  as this exposes distribution that could be exploited for the purpose of profiling etc.


Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: caffeine_me on February 22, 2012, 05:46 am
thank you for putting the time/energy into continually improving the process.  Having the vendor rated for each category is a great idea.  I think it will separate out the top dogs even further.  I don't know how many times I will find a ton of info on the vendor for one product, but almost nothing on another product.  I want to buy the best product, not the best vendor.  Although, my favorite vendors are my favorite for the reason.
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: warweed on February 22, 2012, 06:43 am
thank you for putting the time/energy into continually improving the process.  Having the vendor rated for each category is a great idea.  I think it will separate out the top dogs even further.  I don't know how many times I will find a ton of info on the vendor for one product, but almost nothing on another product.  I want to buy the best product, not the best vendor.  Although, my favorite vendors are my favorite for the reason.

thank you and this is kinda what i was aiming for but yeah who knows it certainly does not hurt to try

RickeyRango I agree 100% i think feedback should be disputable to a point or at least if it's less then 5out of 5 have possible mediation for say 72 hours were the vendor and buyer could try and come to some sort of conclusion 

I hate getting shit feedback for DG it's like you just paid .3 btc for 800 some books and your going to cry to me that 1 book out of the whole pack has yahoo banners or some shit
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: padawan65 on February 22, 2012, 12:43 pm
This site seems to be getting along just fine, I have been using for about 2 months and thought originally all the ratings, feedback and forums were totally useless.  I even got scammed on what I thought should have been a good vendor 100% 40+ transactions, rapidly went down to 50% from 50+ transactions and then gone without a trace, and a suspect delivering one product.

Now, I feel I can read a vendor with a large number of transactions and actually know the vendor almost as well as if he was in the corner store, it is a matter of reading everything about the vendor, and then filtering out the bullshit. 

We wouldn't want great vendors stats with turnover by product, giving too much info.  When I was first on this site I wasn't even sure if the whole site wasn't some scam.  But now after receiving several orders I know it isn't.   It is just a matter of reading between the lines, sometimes under the lines and knowing what you want from the vendor.

It is fun it is anarchic way, reading through the little squabbles, people complaining about nothing, but everything adds to the story.  I know have complained about these things recently but am now laughing at them.

So all you need to do is take a bit of time, read the feedback, the forums, and if in doubt just place a small order.  I dont believe in asking vendors questions - unless their is something unusual in their listing - let them be busy filling our order, instead of wether they wont some in Fiji on their first order to finalise early (most will).  You may be scammed once or twice, but hopefully never under the same circumstances.

And read the harm reduction forums, there are some quite fun threads there, some good squabbles, but amongst it some good advice. 

Remember we here for a good time (hopefully a long time)
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: padawan65 on February 22, 2012, 12:48 pm
I got warweeds, how to get laid, and how to look sexy.  Not having much luck either but got a cuddle from my cat tonight.

Perhaps reading the books would have helped!!!  My job for the weekend will report back, if I can keep the babes in control.
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: OldGuard on February 23, 2012, 01:21 pm
I got warweeds, how to get laid, and how to look sexy.  Not having much luck either but got a cuddle from my cat tonight.

 ;D
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Benficial)
Post by: midas on February 23, 2012, 01:52 pm
A problem I see is the rating in percentage and not the amount of sales. It should be like eBay.

When you see a list of sellers, most of them has a 100 next to them. If a guy has ONLY ONE good sale (could be fake) he gets a 100 next to his name. If a guy has sold hundreds of products and has a few 4/5 his name will have a 98 next to it. Actual system is useless in that sense.

Another problem is the feedback. How accurate could it be? EVERY seller should have a forum thread with subtopics for each product. One for Weed, one for mdma...
Title: Re: Proposed change(s) to How feedback should be handled (Much More Beneficial)
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on February 25, 2012, 01:08 am
an interesting point ;-
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=12361.msg125024#msg125024

"If a seller is successful at selling larger orders of illegal items, their quality shipping and compared risk factor should count towards something.
Sellers who deal only in Digital goods and legal goods are not taking any risk, really, so their products will always arrive... whereas if someone is selling H, has a 100 rating and they regularly ship to places like Australia, they should get a higher rating.  I know this isn't exactly what DPR is doing, but digital goods and services, and legal items also tend to be less expensive than ounces of blow or H... so this will work!
Thanks DPR for being on the ball!"


-  there's more risk in selling drugs but still requires technical skill and know how to sell eBooks or services -they are just very different models; can you measure how
  much effort has gone into formulating an electronic or computer service? -yes on the surface its being sold for a fraction of the selling price of some drugs but all the
  preparation has gone on behind the scene