Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: Adasel on July 19, 2012, 07:02 pm
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Hi guys.
Its been a while since i posted my own thread so this time i really need to get something off my chest.
I am seriously looking into ways to make money, and being legit the only way seems to play the stock market.
I need any advice on this as possible, or if you are aware of any kind of Stock Exchange "games" that might be out there worth trying.
Any advice is better than no advice, thanks!!
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Find bets where the odds at the bookmaker exceed the lay odds at a betting exchange, and then place an equal stake for each.
So for example ladbrokes have 10/1 for team X to beat team Z.
On betfair, you can lay the bet (this means that instead of placing a bet with someone, a bet is placed with YOU as the bookmaker), at 9/1.
You allow a £100 stake for each.
If team X wins, you get £1000 from ladbrokes as your bet won, and lose £900 at betfair to the person that placed a bet with you, so you make £100 overall.
If team Z wins, you lose your £100 bet at ladbrokes but gain the £100 stake from the person that bet with you at betfair.
Therefore you can't lose.
It might seem too good to be true, and there are various complications in betting concerning specific rules of events etc.. And it does take some work to find situations where the odds are higher at the bookie than they are at an exchange, but I know for a fact that this is possible to do, and know people that earn A LOT by doing this
You're basically just buying and selling bets.
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Haha bring me £50K Adasel and I will give you back enough to buy a house without a Mortgage. ;)
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There is a virtual trading app that uses realtime markets at http://simulator.investopedia.com
I tried my hand at some fantasy trading and failed miserably. :'(
So, I'm keeping my money under the mattress for now. May have another crack at it, I've got a few grand that I can't put in the bank and its pissing me off lust sitting there devaluing. ::)
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Haha bring me £50K Adasel and I will give you back enough to buy a house without a Mortgage. ;)
I may take you up on that some day
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There is a virtual trading app that uses realtime markets at http://simulator.investopedia.com
I tried my hand at some fantasy trading and failed miserably. :'(
So, I'm keeping my money under the mattress for now. May have another crack at it, I've got a few grand that I can't put in the bank and its pissing me off lust sitting there devaluing. ::)
Further to what BanWork says - the above tool is one we were shown when I first started working in Hedge Funds.
Of course it's also worth noting that the Bitcoin has its own Stock Exchange but I am deeply suspicious of the promised rates of return on offer there. Anyone trading in those kind of volumes wouldn't be able to make any money from arbitrage due to the fact that a mass sale of that number of Bitcoins would force down the value - http://www.thebitcointrader.com/2012/05/bitcoin-stock-market-miners-and-pirates.html
The only securities I trust are the ABS run by a very entrepreneurial Chinese man as your investment is protected by precious metals such as gold. These actually form part of the investment portfolio I offer to SR users at 6% a month (the difference being I guarantee to protect your investment unlike the "Pirates") :-)
If you want to get into playing the stock market in a real way a sensible minimum investment is around GBP 2000 (USD 3000) - unfortunately brokers aren't nearly as affordable as they should be but if you play with small amounts you might be able to work up enough of a reputation to join an investment club which is a group of individuals who pool their cash to make greater gains.
Usually everyone brings something to the table so what you lack in financial acumen you can make up for in doing some background research into companies e.g how long they've been in business, what's their annual turnover, have there been any shifts in high level positions of late, any large contracts (imagine for instance the amount of money someone could have made betting against the market with G4S if they'd known early on that they'd bitten off more than they could chew for their contract in providing security at the London Olympics. It doesn't take a Broker to realise what was going to happen when the shit hit that proverbial fan (See : http://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?shareprice=GFS)
If you're an absolute beginner and want to get into playing the Stock Market in a small way I can suggest the following books:
Easyway Guide "The Complete Guide to Investing in the Stock Market" (Robert Fellowes).
"How the Stock Market Workds : A beginner's guide to investment" (Michael Becket).
The latter book is written by the Daily Telegraph (a British newspaper for right wing fascists) - and it demonstrates how to read a newspaper's financial pages which is an essential skill if you want to get into this in a real way. Remember never to invest more than you can afford to lose!
All the best,
V.
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I had quite an interesting chat the other day with my broker (who I went to school with lol, so he's also my close friend) and we were discussing how much money people made by betting that Greece wouldn't exit the Euro (this isn't the stock market but I'm thinking outloud here) and apparently it was loads. Really wish I'd got involved in that. :(
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Ugh I wish I bought btc back when it was worthless, I'd be rollin in the dough now if that was the case :(
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Ugh I wish I bought btc back when it was worthless, I'd be rollin in the dough now if that was the case :(
Yeah same. :(
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I wish i had invested in Google actions when it was at 50$ ... FML !!!!! I may be fucking rich :'(
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41$ for 10,000 bitcoins.......I COULD HAVE SO MUCH BLOW!!!!!!
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Bitcoin prices are insane, I bought some a few months ago..well the missus did, she paid £3.70 for em, that was back in March maybe April. When I came to sell the remaining 2 the other day I nearly shit a kitten, sold em for £6.40 each!
Given enough money you could make some serious coin from them...hell the other day they were £5.70 on MtGox while £6.60 on InterSango, with enough volume and patience and a keen eye I reckon you could make a few hundred quid a week...sounds small but just for taking a few clicks it's not bad
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I've heard of Betfair. I don't have any personal experiences with betting sites, but perhaps other members can chime in.
If you're serious about investing, I'd suggest opening up a brokerage account. As I believe someone else said, they usually will require a minimum initial deposit, and sometimes a minimum account balance as well. Granted, these investments aren't quick money, hence - investment.
Take some time and research what your options are and what exactly you are looking for.
sdesu
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Lim, good idea and i might get back to you on that.
Sadly the only form of betting i am familiar with is the horses. If anyone has any pointers on this that would be great.
Also, i have just checked out that fantasy stock market app and it looks pretty sweet. I'll keep you posted on my progress if i make a long term dedication.
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Stock market can be fun but it requires a pretty solid upfront investment if you want to do any real damage. Personally, I wouldn't approach it without at least some 10,000$ that you are comfortable playing with.
FOREX, or foreign currency exchange, is a market that you might want to check out. You can have more fun with a smaller up-front investment and it's, to my mind, a lot more new-user friendly. Of course, it's very easy to get wiped out, too. But, in all honesty, success in any market you enter comes down to disciplined money management.
A book I would recommend is the text on Technical Analysis by a guy called Murphy. It's a great entry text for anyone that is interested in any market, not just FOREX.
Also, pretty much every FOREX broker offers 'practice' accounts where you can mess around with fake money and get a feel for it.
BabyPips is a great site and community for everything FOREX, so I would recommend this as your first stop if you're interested.
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41$ for 10,000 bitcoins.......I COULD HAVE SO MUCH BLOW!!!!!!
Bwahaha, my thoughts exactly
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Hi guys, thanks for all the info.
So far i have gone with BanWorks idea and registered a account on investopedia.
I was given a start of 100k us dollars. So far i have put an order through of 400 shares each in two companies.
I kept checking my status, and then it dawned on me that the stock market is closed at the weekends (how is a noob supposed to know these things!).
Although im pretty sure i purchased some of the stock on Friday, so surely that should be showing?
Anyway ill wait till monday and if all goes well, i'll keep you guys posted on how my money making goes.
As for the betting idea goes, its a good one. But to be honest to make it work properly it sounds like would need a good few grand to invest in properly.
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That's another cool thing about the FOREX markets, they're pretty much open 24 hours a day because there are always currencies being traded in some part of the world.
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I picked up shares of a few companies just after the crash of 2008. Sold them after I had made some nice profits about 2 years later. ROI was approx 13% so I was pretty happy.
Come April 15, turns out the taxman takes about half of said profits :'(
Needless to say, not a big fan of the stock market anymore. Only worth it for the fat cat inside traders IMO.
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I had quite an interesting chat the other day with my broker (who I went to school with lol, so he's also my close friend) and we were discussing how much money people made by betting that Greece wouldn't exit the Euro (this isn't the stock market but I'm thinking outloud here) and apparently it was loads. Really wish I'd got involved in that. :(
Well the drama's far from over. Right now an even larger sum could be made betting on whether the Euro will survive at all, which I believe to be at about even odds. It really could go either way. There's a remarkable lack of urgency on display by the ECB and the German government is still in flat denial of the kind of aggressive bond buying that will need to happen by the ECB to get out of the current conundrum. Greece could still be a casualty if Germany decides to try cutting deadweight as a desperation measure before coming around to this commitment.
So the people that made the most on Greece staying in on the Euro had to have purchased short term calls.
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Funny, I just opened a *insert cheesy internet broker here* account not too long ago with a few grand.
The annoying thing about having one with so little in it is, I basically have to make a 1% gain just to cover commission, so I have to know it will make a significant pop instead of profiting from little waves.
I've made a hundred or two (correctly predicted the most fascist outcome on ACA ruling), but nothing worth writing home about.
For learning, investopedia as a whole is great. I've spent days on there. Zerohedge.com is also pretty nice for finance in general.
If you're good at predicting things, there's also Intrade...basically buy or sell a commodity representing whether or not something will happen that trades in between $0 and $10 until the event does or doesn't happen. If it does, the value of the commodity automatically goes to $10; if it doesn't, $0. It has elections, box office results, etc.
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Funny, I just opened a *insert cheesy internet broker here* account not too long ago with a few grand.
The annoying thing about having one with so little in it is, I basically have to make a 1% gain just to cover commission, so I have to know it will make a significant pop instead of profiting from little waves.
I've made a hundred or two (correctly predicted the most fascist outcome on ACA ruling), but nothing worth writing home about.
For learning, investopedia as a whole is great. I've spent days on there. Zerohedge.com is also pretty nice for finance in general.
If you're good at predicting things, there's also Intrade...basically buy or sell a commodity representing whether or not something will happen that trades in between $0 and $10 until the event does or doesn't happen. If it does, the value of the commodity automatically goes to $10; if it doesn't, $0. It has elections, box office results, etc.
I hear you buddy! Investing in the stock market is not nearly as simple or as inexpensive as it should be!
My own broker charges a flat fee of GBP 10 each time I buy or sell shares* which I find easier to work with than an investment system. One way to grow your wealth as I think I mentioned above is to start your own investment cooperative so that you and others with financial savvy can pool your resources to make larger gains.
As I said a sensible minimum investment per venture is around USD 3,000 if you want to see any kind of significant gain but of course if there are twelve of you each putting in USD 250 for instance, then this lowers the risk** and allows you to start investing small amounts from your monthly salary. This also splits the transaction fee between all of you, though of course your gains are fractionally lower too.
V.
*No doubt an overweight SOCA Detective munching on his doughnut is yelling at a Subordinate :"Get me a list of brokers who charge a flat fee in the UK! I think we can nail this guy down once and for all! ;-)
**Actually the risk is still the same but your losses are proportionately less i.e you only stand to lose USD 250 rather than USD 3,000 in this instance.
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my guy who deals in forex says metatrader is the program to use
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Thanks for that FTP!! 8)
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Thanks for that FTP!! 8)
No problem buddy :)
Here are two threads that may be of interest to you. I found these because I was interested in this exact thing a few weeks ago:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10736.0
http://blog.bitcoinwatch.com/2011/09/bitcoin-technical-and-bitcoin-market-analysis-august-26th-2011-by-s3052-2/
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This investopedia software for fantasy trading has been a very painful learning curve. I know it has only been a few days but ive made nothing but losses so far.
I looked into that meta trader software, but its actually REAL software that allows you to trade online more effectively.
Also, the investopedia site only seems to allow yo to invest in the american market. Because so far i cannot figure out how to change to european market or how to use GBP.
So far, stock market trading sucks a big one for me lol.
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I could write so much advice in this thread but I simply don't have the time at the moment, I will come back to it on the weekend. Just briefly reading through I've smiled so many times seeing things I've successfully done, am doing or have failed at.
Without a doubt the best way to earn serious money quickly is property investment, particularly commercial property. Residential is good too, but too small time, you need to do many and quickly which is too much work and hassle for me. Property investment is very proactive though, and requires you to know the right people, but brings in serious dough. Almost every top business person you know of, who is mega rich, didn't make their money from the business they were famous for, they made their serious dough when they sold that business and used the cash to invest in property. With commercial property you can easily double your money monthly, you just need to have a sharp brain and sharp friends.
For this reason, due to the fact it's proactive, stock market investment comes a close second. You don't make nearly as much money, and it's much riskyer, but you don't need to leave the sofa nowadays. Personally I got extremely lucky, I bought mining and precious metals (gold etc) shares after doing extensive research in 2008 and sold them this year, making a shed load of cash. (90% increase in share value, every year for 4 years). I've then shorted them (bet against the market) and guess what they've bombed (which is a good thing if you're shorting), making me an even bigger shed load of cash.
I also have other investments which bring in good returns, such as wine futures, which is where a group of me and my friends (8 of us) collectively invest in a whole vineyards harvest for a year. If they have a good year and sell the bottles at $80 a bottle, we make a nice return, if they have a terrible year and sell at $5, we loose out, although not that much. You need to have a good knowledge of the wine industry and going on a WSET course for a couple of weeks can give you a head start with that. The returns are massive though, and it's fairly obvious which vineyards consistently do well and which are poor. I consider this safer than the stock market and better returns.
Also stamps, rare earth metals, classic cars etc etc the list goes on, as I said I'm too busy to go into too much detail.
OZ
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Thanks for all that info!!
Also i have found a link for a uk based stock market game woo hoo so going to start fresh.
Property defiantly looks like the way to go.
If anymore stock market advice goes into this thread, it needs to be stickied!!