Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: helll on July 16, 2012, 08:00 pm
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I'm about to send some cash in the mail and I want to make sure there is no way to trace the transaction back to me. I'm having trouble finding good info about removing fingerprints though.
Right now my idea is to buy gloves, a sponge and some rubbing alcohol, but I have no idea if this will be enough. What kind of substances destroy the oils left by our skin? Thanks!
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Watch the movies - just rub it down with a t-shirt and you're golden. No really - smudge the prints even a little, and they can't prove anything. If it isn't a nice looking print, they can pull a partial, but anything that isn't like 99% accurate will make for a fun, short trial (where you get off of course....).
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Are the bank notes fresh from the printing press? If not I'm sure the 1000+ other finger prints and traces of cocaine should cover you up ;)
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In the movies you see they put the bills in a pillow case and put it washing machine (literally money laundering, lol). From what I understood, bills aren't made of paper, but rather some kind of fabric. Water, soap and careful handling shouldn't damage them. Try it with a 1 dollar bill first.
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I'm about to send some cash in the mail and I want to make sure there is no way to trace the transaction back to me. I'm having trouble finding good info about removing fingerprints though.
Right now my idea is to buy gloves, a sponge and some rubbing alcohol, but I have no idea if this will be enough. What kind of substances destroy the oils left by our skin? Thanks!
Hi buddy,
The man who receives my orders and banks them asked me the same question when we started out on here.
I work in a bank and can tell you for nothing the Police over here do not bother to do this often as money is absolutely caked in fingerprints - the courts require that a fingerprint have a certain integrity to be valid and bank notes simply cannot hold a print in that way due to the number of times they're handled. I'm also not entirely sure the paper lends itself well to such analysis due to the fibres inside it : http://www.fosterfreeman.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=300:visualise-and-image-dfo-treated-fingerprints-on-a-p20-note&catid=11:company-news&Itemid=152
In any case given how often money changes hands (no pun intended) would a clear fingerprint on a note prove anything in any case?
V.
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In any case given how often money changes hands (no pun intended) would a clear fingerprint on a note prove anything in any case?
I agree there is big plausible deniability in such a case. They will not get a conviction based of a fingerprint on a banknote.
However, I think OP just doesn't want anything being traced back to him. Even though they can't prove anything, a few clean fingerprints might bring the eye of Sauron upon you.
BTW, @OP. Preferably, I wouldn't try to wash fingerprints off cash. (If you start using all kinds of fancy chemicals, dogs might smell something.) I would just make sure there are no prints of mine on it in the first place. I would just drive to the nearest ATM and wear thin gloves while handling the money.
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Thanks for the helpful replies everyone.
The bills are all different in terms of newness, and there are hundreds of them, most of which I probably touched directly at some point.
My solution was to gently rub both sides of the bills with a damp sponge while wearing gloves. I will do the same to the package I send it in. ej3k1 I totally agree about not using chemicals and decided to go with water for that reason.
Thanks for the article vlad, here's a thread I came across after some more research that seems to have some very knowledgeable people commenting:
http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/forensic-science/messages/8210?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1
Definitely an interesting topic.
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Fingerprints are a pattern made up from the oils and fats that are present on your skin. These fatty substances do not dissolve in water. The rubbing motion of the sponge might smudge the pattern so much that it can't be used, but water will do little to actually erase the prints.
If you really have such a big amount of cash, I'd consider putting them in a pillowcase in the washing machine, on the most gentle program available. The detergent in the washing powder should wash away the prints and the bills shouldn't get damaged by that.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question108.htm
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Wow.
If you put your money into a dishwasher or a washing machine then your money is going to surely glow under a UV light. The powers/chemicals used are fluorescent.
You know what normal paper looks like under a UV light? Like a lamp.
You know what paper money looks like under a UV light? The exact same apart from the designed bits which are supposed to fluoresce anyway.
This is the No.1 method banks and shops detect counterfeit bills. Because getting the right kind of paper to make counterfeit notes is non-trivial a task unless you own a paper mill. A bank will instantly spot a stack of notes treated with washing detergent and report it to a LEO because they'll assume you're a counterfeiter, how do you imagine that going down? ("oh, lol, no, you're a drug dealer lol, our honest mistake, sorry about the trouble Sir")
Do not use washing detergent on your bills unless you want the Secret Service monitoring you. No kidding, due to some freak of united states bureaucracy, the same guys who protect POTUS also are the dudes who are supposed to track down counterfeiters. Google it if you don't believe me.
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Use rubbing alcohol. You don't need to be rough, a simple hand wipe accomplishes much. If you get a powerful UV light (wear protective eyewear with yellow lenses), you should be able to detect any fingerprints before/after, and there is the benefit that strong UV light will practically murder any organic stuff like DNA, which is why doctors in hospitals wash their hands under specially designed UV light stands (it's not blue to look cool).
Use a hair dryer to dry the bills individually. Alcohol evaporates very fast. There won't be any remaining when it reaches bank HQ. You shouldn't wash your money, but you should dry it, lol! :D
Lastly; use gloves. It's a basic requirement, whether or not you think the prints are recoverable. It's cheap. It's effective. It's guaranteed to work. srslyyouguise.jpg
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What a stupid fucking question!
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Wow.
If you put your money into a dishwasher or a washing machine then your money is going to surely glow under a UV light. The powers/chemicals used are fluorescent.
You know what normal paper looks like under a UV light? Like a lamp.
You know what paper money looks like under a UV light? The exact same apart from the designed bits which are supposed to fluoresce anyway.
This is the No.1 method banks and shops detect counterfeit bills. Because getting the right kind of paper to make counterfeit notes is non-trivial a task unless you own a paper mill. A bank will instantly spot a stack of notes treated with washing detergent and report it to a LEO because they'll assume you're a counterfeiter, how do you imagine that going down? ("oh, lol, no, you're a drug dealer lol, our honest mistake, sorry about the trouble Sir")
Do not use washing detergent on your bills unless you want the Secret Service monitoring you. No kidding, due to some freak of united states bureaucracy, the same guys who protect POTUS also are the dudes who are supposed to track down counterfeiters. Google it if you don't believe me.
--
Use rubbing alcohol. You don't need to be rough, a simple hand wipe accomplishes much. If you get a powerful UV light (wear protective eyewear with yellow lenses), you should be able to detect any fingerprints before/after, and there is the benefit that strong UV light will practically murder any organic stuff like DNA, which is why doctors in hospitals wash their hands under specially designed UV light stands (it's not blue to look cool).
Use a hair dryer to dry the bills individually. Alcohol evaporates very fast. There won't be any remaining when it reaches bank HQ. You shouldn't wash your money, but you should dry it, lol! :D
Lastly; use gloves. It's a basic requirement, whether or not you think the prints are recoverable. It's cheap. It's effective. It's guaranteed to work. srslyyouguise.jpg
Can somebody please link to one or two DNA destroying lamps ? We would like to incorporate this in our work!
Thanks a bunch Pine for this great post !!!
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Are the bank notes fresh from the printing press? If not I'm sure the 1000+ other finger prints and traces of cocaine should cover you up ;)
did 1000+ people touch the same combination of bills?
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Can somebody please link to one or two DNA destroying lamps ? We would like to incorporate this in our work!
Thanks a bunch Pine for this great post !!!
No problem, but remember it's a supplementary tool, you shouldn't rely on it, it's more like a back-up tool in case of human error etc.
I should warn you some UV light can be extremely harmful to humans (so don't use them as a sun bed!). You're made of DNA too, so bear that in mind, you don't want to put the light in your eyes or be in front of it for more than a moment or so. You want UV light scanning packaging (I was thinking if you had a long circular clothes line, you could peg a package to it, and then spin it until it meets a UV light housing area that protects you from the UV light, then after a while spin it again until it arrives back, and then put another layer of packaging on it etc, just a stray thought, if you had zillions of packages this would surely improve efficiency uberfold).
[quote
At certain wavelengths (including UVC) UV is harmful to humans and other forms of life. In most UVGI systems the lamps are shielded or are in environments that limit exposure, such as a closed water tank or closed air circulation system, often with interlocks that automatically shut off the UV lamps if the system is opened for access by human beings.
UVGI is often used to disinfect equipment such as safety goggles, instruments, pipettors, and other devices. Lab personnel also disinfects glassware and plasticware this way. Microbiology laboratories use UVGI to disinfect surfaces inside biological safety cabinets ("hoods") between uses.
[/quote]
Here is an example of such a system:
http://www.freshozone.com/ultraviolet-germicidal-irradiation-uvgi-system.html
That one is probably very expensive though. You should google for cheaper versions, I bet there's a bunch of hospitals or labs that throw out their old stuff and you could obtain it dead cheap 2nd hand. Another good guide would be those industrial manuals for suppliers that labs get. I just use a standard UV light band (about $50) to do 5-10 second sweep on each package exterior which was fairly cheap (party animals use UV light in nightclubs so they fluoresce, I have one of those clubbing UV lights which is more usually affixed to the ceiling or a wall), but am unsure of how effective it is, because I'm not sure what frequency it is. It has to be effective to some degree, but couldn't give you numbers.
Also I hate people who don't put prices on their websites. Fucking moronic business practice that is not applicable to the 21st century. I don't want a fucking bespoke UVGI system, Jesus Christ! I swear these kinds of businesses are like highway robbers, but possibly without the bohemian flair.
Anyway, search for a UVGI system and you'll get what you want. It won't make all fingerprints visible, I should have clarified that, here is more details:
Latent fingerprints are invisible to the naked eye under ordinary light, but can be made visible by dusting, chemical development, or an alternate light source.
What’s an alternate light source?
In forensics, the term alternate light source (or ALS) is used generically to describe any bright light source that emits light at a single wavelength or a narrow band of wavelengths. An ALS may emit light at any wavelength from far ultraviolet through the visible spectrum and into the far infrared. For example, a standard “black light” fluorescent tube is considered an ALS, as is a sodium- or mercury-vapor lamp.
It can work, but you need more types of light than just UV light if you're to do it properly (and a bit of training). Plus you don't want to spend all your time doing this per package it'd take too long to be honest, so best to concentrate on DNA, it will damage DNA for sure, which can only aid you in a worse case scenario of human error.
So: rubbing alcohol for prints, uv light for dna. And again, these are backup strategies in case of human error, a proper series of handling procedures and a proper staging area for packaging is the main line of defense.
Forensics people have the best ones, but they're really expensive -.-
P.S. You can have a lot of fun with UV light.
1. Look inside your oven (OMG) you may feel compelled to clean it afterwards.
2. Briefly point it at your teeth after your brush them.
3. Point it at your neighbor's white sheets on the washing line. Good way to seriously spook them. Looks freaky as hell.
4. Track your pet animals from room to room to see where they've been.
5. Using saliva, trace 'blood spatter', smeared palm prints and 'help' on an entire wall. Then convince your friends somebody was murdered there. Good for Halloween, heck, any occasion really.
Submit more ideas, I must get yet more value out of this device :)