Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: echo_ on July 08, 2012, 02:40 am
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One of my wealthier friends recently got busted, and did a play-by-play with his (very) expensive lawyer. Both of us were told some new information regarding the use of legal rights to protect yourself from police during a search.
You should know that if the police arrive at your door, if they do not have a search warrant you do not talk to them, and refuse the search, or questioning.
If they are, however, already conducting a search inside your house, if you are ever accused of a felony, as I understand it, you have the legally recognized right to invoke a lawyer to be present to make sure the search is being conducted properly. The police legally have to stop the search and wait for your lawyer to be present.
This information was new to me, so I wanted to let anyone around here know about it, in case it could be beneficial. This happened in the US.
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Lol I wonder how long the cops would wait for a lawyer to arrive until they just say fuck this
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then you can use that as evidence against the police while your in court if you end up in court.
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then you can use that as evidence against the police while your in court if you end up in court.
It wouldn't just be evidence against, it would completely kill their case altogether because it would be an unlawful search that would most likely lead to an unlawful arrest. Case would be null and void on that technicality alone.
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I don't understand if I was retarded and forgot to hit post, or my post got deleted.
OP, what exactly did your friend do to get caught? Was he getting things mailed to his own place? International orders? Big/small?
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then you can use that as evidence against the police while your in court if you end up in court.
It wouldn't just be evidence against, it would completely kill their case altogether because it would be an unlawful search that would most likely lead to an unlawful arrest. Case would be null and void on that technicality alone.
Evidence would be considered the "fruit of the poisoned tree." You can't use any evidence gathered from an illegal search.
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I'm not sure whether that is actually true in the UK, unfortunately. I think that judges can allow illegally obtained evidence at their discretion, although you can take the police to civil court afterwards (for all the good that will do).
I could be wrong about this, but this is how it was explained to me by a brief a while back, if I recall the conversation correctly. ???
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I'm not sure whether that is actually true in the UK, unfortunately. I think that judges can allow illegally obtained evidence at their discretion, although you can take the police to civil court afterwards (for all the good that will do).
I could be wrong about this, but this is how it was explained to me by a brief a while back, if I recall the conversation correctly. ???
thats how it is in my country too (another country in Europe)- "evidence is evidence", tho cops or whoever may get trouble afterwards for getting evidence illegally it wouldn't be dismissed.
guess thats only (?) US
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Well that's shit then, I think there are certain limits though. For example in the U.K if a woman pig (a.k.a a Sow) was pulling a sting on a Male suspect I seriously doubt if say, the officer slept with them or exposed herself to get evidence that could ever be used. Thoughts?
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It would be thrown out . . . part of the fuck a sow syndrome!
NCK
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Well that's shit then, I think there are certain limits
But....you're Limitless :P
ok im done
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then you can use that as evidence against the police while your in court if you end up in court.
Yeah but the problem is that it's your word against theirs. If you're alone they can just say you never requested to have your lawyer present. Pigs love to do this shit especially when pulling you over for no justifiable reason. That's why it's always good to have incognito recording devices, or even just stealthily turn on your cell phone video recorder while it's all going on.
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lol if they don't wait for your lawyer and your lawyer shows up and they are already searching then thats your lawyers word + yours against them and you probably should try to record everything either video or just audio if your not in cuffs. Just have a sound recording app on your smart phone and your good to go. I think even normal standard text + call only phones even come with sound recorders
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lol if they don't wait for your lawyer and your lawyer shows up and they are already searching then thats your lawyers word + yours against them and you probably should try to record everything either video or just audio if your not in cuffs. Just have a sound recording app on your smart phone and your good to go. I think even normal standard text + call only phones even come with sound recorders
But its the corrupt as fuck police.
They'll just claim that you never asked for a lawyer. And as soon as you pull out your phone to start recording, they'll take it off you, and then deny that it ever happened.
It happens all the time. You're allowed to film the police (except the anti terrorism squad) in the UK.. But they, knowing the law, will still try to take your camera off you. Not all of them but enough of them. And people, as their shit is being taken or smacked away, are saying "i'm well within my rights to film you".. And the police just carry on regardless and then if the person doesn't put the camera away, charge them with a breach of the peace and claim that they were causing "harrassment, alarm, or distress".
That's the fucking most annoying thing about the breach of the peace laws.. The police extend "harrassment, alarm, or distress" to apply to situations where it just isn't the case. For example.. shouting racist abuse at someone falls under it.. or getting in someones face and being really aggressive.. shit like that, we can say is what the terms actually refer to. But they'll arrest you for filming, and then later say that you were being aggressive and were causing them distress. I've seen it happen. Or they'll arrest you for protesting, saying that you are causing "distress" to the public, because a couple of people complained. That is NOT distress, or anything even like it.
What you're actually causing, is offense. And offending someone, isn't illegal. But the police are too fucking dumb to see that distinction, and hide behind vague words to get their charge and arrest rate up. It's fucking sickening.
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You're right. evidence is evidence in the US. they will lie on the stand and say they saw it through the window. HUGE corruption in the US. My best friend just got shot but a cop. He was completely unarmed and handcuffed...
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Well that's shit then, I think there are certain limits though. For example in the U.K if a woman pig (a.k.a a Sow) was pulling a sting on a Male suspect I seriously doubt if say, the officer slept with them or exposed herself to get evidence that could ever be used. Thoughts?
Its pretty unlikely to ever come up outside of some Hollywood movie.
I don't know if this kind of stuff is common place in the USA but UK policewomen don't sleep with people to obtain evidence.
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I personally hate what the police has become. They don't protect anybody anymore. Luckily, the laws (at least in my country) are good enough to protect us citizens. I studied law a bit at secondary grammar school and I'd recommend it to everybody to learn something as well. Very useful stuff.
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Colin Stagg. I think that was his name. A woman named Rachel Nickell was raped and murdered in front of her young son on Wimbledon common. The police decided that Mr Stagg was the culprit on the basis he lived in the area and was thought of as a bit weird. A young attractive policewoman was assigned to flirt with him and illicit sexual fantasies of a violent nature from him. At first he was only able to manage some fasirly vanilla stuff involving bondage but with her coaching eventually progressed to knives and blood. I think she may have got as pseudoconfession out of him dressed as a sexual fantasy. The line of ethical evidence gathering was definitely crossed and left far behind. He served a long time on remand, presumably being unpleasantly treated as a nonce, before being completely exonerated; although I think his life was pretty well ruined( certainly his chances of getting a date suffered). He got a fairly substantial sum in compensation eventually I think.
Obviously this case showed that such evidence is inadmissable; but it also shows that police are prepared to play fast and loose if they think you are guilty.
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then you can use that as evidence against the police while your in court if you end up in court.
It wouldn't just be evidence against, it would completely kill their case altogether because it would be an unlawful search that would most likely lead to an unlawful arrest. Case would be null and void on that technicality alone.
Don't you love the US Justice system Lim?
At the trial of Britain's most notorious drug baron Curtis "Cocky" Warren, evidence which had been illegally obtained was admitted at trial. On appeal the presiding Judge specifically said that the fact that Police Officers who had bugged his car did so without permission from French authorities didn't make the evidence inadmissible.
Let's relocate Stateside?! :-)
V.
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It wouldn't just be evidence against, it would completely kill their case altogether because it would be an unlawful search that would most likely lead to an unlawful arrest. Case would be null and void on that technicality alone.
This only applies in the US.
In the UK, as I've found out myself, the police don't need any warrants to search your house. They can simply knock on the door and if you refuse to let them in knock it down. Then any evidence found can and will be used against you in court. I think the UK police just need "suspicion" which basically means anything.
The UK police sure do love using that red key:
http://tinyurl.com/cp3r43n
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It wouldn't just be evidence against, it would completely kill their case altogether because it would be an unlawful search that would most likely lead to an unlawful arrest. Case would be null and void on that technicality alone.
This only applies in the US.
In the UK, as I've found out myself, the police don't need any warrants to search your house. They can simply knock on the door and if you refuse to let them in knock it down. Then any evidence found can and will be used against you in court. I think the UK police just need "suspicion" which basically means anything.
The UK police sure do love using that red key:
http://tinyurl.com/cp3r43n
Are you serious? That's fucked up! I don't see how anyone would dare grow dope in such a police state. One tip-off and you're done. Ubiquitous CCTV and police being able to wreck havoc in your home at will? And here I thought the UK had some laws respecting privacy and civil liberties. And you guys are worried about US terrorism laws creating a police state in America? Well we're not bent over to anywhere near that level of invasiveness. Not even close.
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Atleast in the UK the police, well regular police doesn't carry any firearms.. thank god for that, I'd imagine if they did they would be shooting more mofo's then US cops....
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as for you guys talking about recording shit when questioned by police this is a very good idea.
Use the OpenWatch app for iphone android, you hit the button once from your main screen and it starts recording video/audio, but runs in the background and is completely hidden. this app was developed exactly for the purpose of recording police corruption.
the best thing is, you make it obvious your trying to record, they take the phone off you, walk away to have their private discussion (holding your phone), and that's usually where they fuck up and say 'right, lets sting this prick'.
we used it in the occupy movement here in western australia, but luckily we had the best cops i've ever heard of in the global occupy movement. they simply said they agreed with us and let us camp illegally as long as we didn't fuck up.
then they caught us smoking weed and just said 'dont fuck this whole protest up for a joint, other cops would bust you right here' and walked away.
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It's like talking to myself. In the US most of the police are corrupt. Do you know all they need for a legal search and seizure? To say they smelled someone smoking marijuana, and that could be the farthest thing from the truth. And standing there waiting for your lawyer, they will say the saw small baggies or a gun that I'm not registered to have, and it's their word against you. The cops don't carry guns where you are Lim? that's very comforting knowing how quick the cop here are to shoot at us for absolutely nothing. I have seen too many of these power hungry small dick cops take advantage of their badge. So please don't go saying in America john doe would get off, because they are smarter and more cold blooded than you know. And judges? You don't get a fair trial, the DAs and judges go golfing all afternoon together, putting together their case.
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You really needed a expensive lawyer to tell you this information?
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It's like talking to myself. In the US most of the police are corrupt. Do you know all they need for a legal search and seizure? To say they smelled someone smoking marijuana, and that could be the farthest thing from the truth. And standing there waiting for your lawyer, they will say the saw small baggies or a gun that I'm not registered to have, and it's their word against you. The cops don't carry guns where you are Lim? that's very comforting knowing how quick the cop here are to shoot at us for absolutely nothing. I have seen too many of these power hungry small dick cops take advantage of their badge.
No doubt. And it's really fucking hard for these corrupt as fuck cops to ever get fired for their abuses either. They're so insulated by their police unions that the city/state usually can't touch them. Only if it generates enough bad publicity can it force some accountability for these pricks.
So please don't go saying in America john doe would get off, because they are smarter and more cold blooded than you know.
Yeah. You get pulled over for no reason, you'll get told you've got a taillight out. If you tell them no you don't, they'll smash your taillight out. That's why I've got a stealth recording device in my car that captures audio, front, and rear view that records realtime while storing remotely whenever I've got my alarm disabled.
And judges? You don't get a fair trial, the DAs and judges go golfing all afternoon together, putting together their case.
Actually, it's amazing how hiring the right trial lawyers can make a fair trial far more likely. Judges go golfing with trial lawyers too. But you have to be able to afford them, and afterwards you're going to be much less wealthy. :(
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yeah, I had a tail light out and they got a warrant over dispatch because they could "see" seeds and smell alcohol. which is crazy because I do pills. I hate drinking. So they decide to get everyone out the car and I look over and they are beating the shit out of my good friend. Seven cops to one...all they had to say was "we saw him swallow something". Well, they held him until 48hrs and nothing passed because he didn't swallow anything. They were so busy with him, and they had no female cops, that I had the stash. And like I just said my best friend was just murdered. Handcuffed and unarmed and three cops against a 130lb 5'6 guy and they shot him in cold blood. He's dead because those pigs are trigger happy. It's not free in the USA. You see red white and blue flashing behind you, you panic and hope you make it through. This is an interesting video. Law student gets away with a gun and without giving anyone his name, and until the captain comes, the cop is certain he is right.
http://hw-static.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/wplayer/NAPP2g.swf?skin=http://hw-static.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/wplayer/wshh2f.swf&thumbnailURL=http://hw-static.worldstarhiphop.com/u/pic/2012/06/18/ikjuyhgtrfefefewdwde.jpg&file=http://hw-videos.worldstarhiphop.com/u/vid/2012/06/18/osdytwdywdtewtdtetdfdf3gfgre5gfref54fdwf4fref4rddewd44444.flv&vl=wshh9uupF06WWu97tcLT&autostart=false&volume=1&youtubePlugin=http://hw-static.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/wplayer/YoutubePlugin1e.swf
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yeah, I had a tail light out and they got a warrant over dispatch because they could "see" seeds and smell alcohol. which is crazy because I do pills. I hate drinking. So they decide to get everyone out the car and I look over and they are beating the shit out of my good friend. Seven cops to one...all they had to say was "we saw him swallow something". Well, they held him until 48hrs and nothing passed because he didn't swallow anything. They were so busy with him, and they had no female cops, that I had the stash. And like I just said my best friend was just murdered. Handcuffed and unarmed and three cops against a 130lb 5'6 guy and they shot him in cold blood. He's dead because those pigs are trigger happy. It's not free in the USA. You see red white and blue flashing behind you, you panic and hope you make it through. This is an interesting video. Law student gets away with a gun and without giving anyone his name, and until the captain comes, the cop is certain he is right.
http://hw-static.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/wplayer/NAPP2g.swf?skin=http://hw-static.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/wplayer/wshh2f.swf&thumbnailURL=http://hw-static.worldstarhiphop.com/u/pic/2012/06/18/ikjuyhgtrfefefewdwde.jpg&file=http://hw-videos.worldstarhiphop.com/u/vid/2012/06/18/osdytwdywdtewtdtetdfdf3gfgre5gfref54fdwf4fref4rddewd44444.flv&vl=wshh9uupF06WWu97tcLT&autostart=false&volume=1&youtubePlugin=http://hw-static.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/wplayer/YoutubePlugin1e.swf
He's actually really lucky because, first, the cop allowed himself to be recorded. And with the recording device going that precluded any possibility of a beat down. My bet is if that recording device wasn't running he would have been apprehended on the spot and a bullshit reason like assault with a deadly weapon against a law enforcement officer would have been the reason for arrest.