Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: MetaD13 on July 04, 2012, 01:40 am
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Suggestions? Currently have $50 debit card, will be making purchase soon if I can convert.
Also should I buy these coins while on Tor or regular internet browser? I know some exchanges don't allow proxies but I'm a bit concerned about security(if you couldn't tell by now I'm new to SR).
Thanks in advance! :)
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Personally I use Virwox, it's a digital currency exchange.
Don't use Tor for the actual purchase, if you're really paranoid about security you can send your bitcoins to bitcoinfog first and then on to here which will disguise them for you and give you protection.
If you use a proxy your card may not work and could get blocked, the IP has to match the cards registered location.
You can also purchase moneypaks and trade them on here with a vendor for coins, but I personally don't trust this method as you can get scammed, although there are a lot of 'reputable' vendors.
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Thanks for the info!
If I were to purchase these "moneypaks" and trade them for BTC on here, how much do you think I would get for $50?
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Thanks for the info!
If I were to purchase these "moneypaks" and trade them for BTC on here, how much do you think I would get for $50?
Depends on the seller/exchanger. There are a handful of MP -> BTC sellers on the road. Take a look under money services.
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Dont get ripped off by a MP vendor!
Just use bitinstant, and coinapult to your email or tormail, you will have your coins 1 hour after your deposit and in your sr wallet in 5 hours total or less. Deposits are made at the bank closest to you, very many to choose from and deposits are anonymous and not associated with bitcoin, just "trustcash llc" a separate llc from bitinstant
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Dont get ripped off by a MP vendor!
Just use bitinstant, and coinapult to your email or tormail, you will have your coins 1 hour after your deposit and in your sr wallet in 5 hours total or less. Deposits are made at the bank closest to you, very many to choose from and deposits are anonymous and not associated with bitcoin, just "trustcash llc" a separate llc from bitinstant
I still don't see why being validated on Dwolla and Mt.Gox and then to be able to transfer directly between for only 25cents (iirc) and then tumbling your coins is not the preferred method since it's got the least transaction fees and/or third-party charges. Maybe I'm missing something but spending extra 4% + fee for using BitInstant or an inflated USD/BTC rate for using a MP vendor does not seem to make sense, especially with the prices on SR being as high already. I'm sure most will say "duh, to be more anonymous!" but I hardly worry about getting investigated by LE for legitimately buying a couple hundred dollars worth of BTCs now and then...
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Dont get ripped off by a MP vendor!
Just use bitinstant, and coinapult to your email or tormail, you will have your coins 1 hour after your deposit and in your sr wallet in 5 hours total or less. Deposits are made at the bank closest to you, very many to choose from and deposits are anonymous and not associated with bitcoin, just "trustcash llc" a separate llc from bitinstant
I still don't see why being validated on Dwolla and Mt.Gox and then to be able to transfer directly between for only 25cents (iirc) and then tumbling your coins is not the preferred method since it's got the least transaction fees and/or third-party charges. Maybe I'm missing something but spending extra 4% + fee for using BitInstant or an inflated USD/BTC rate for using a MP vendor does not seem to make sense, especially with the prices on SR being as high already. I'm sure most will say "duh, to be more anonymous!" but I hardly worry about getting investigated by LE for legitimately buying a couple hundred dollars worth of BTCs now and then...
Yes, "legitimately" being the operative word - we all know there are perfectly legal uses for Bitcoins but common sense tells us that their main purpose is to buy illegal goods. As a Bitcoin Trader I only accept cash in the mail for the simple reason it's one of the few safe ways (along with selling Moneypaks) to obtain BTC safely.
You also need to bear in mind there's a difference between linking someone to a specific transaction because they were unable or unwilling to use a coin mixer and proving they bought Bitcoins in the first place, which is trivial if you go ahead and use Paypal/Credit card/Bank transfer to do so. Even cash deposit at a bank is not as anonymous as you might think - I know this because I work in one and started off as a cashier; the time of every transaction (including cash over the counter) is logged and it would be very easy to review the security camera footage to work out who made a deposit at a particular time for a certain amount - once again I know this because we've done this on several occasions to combat money launderers.
The only counterargument I've really seen against this are buyers who don't believe they buy enough Bitcoins to make it worth the Police's trouble to track them down. In actual fact it's no more or less trouble to spot someone has purchased one Bitcoin or a thousand if they've used a method that can be linked to them but I am usually able to persuade them of the logic of a "What If" scenario, namely:
If a package containing illegal goods is sent to your door and you accept it into your home, you can be arrested. If you later try to claim that you had no knowledge of its contents and it can be proven in court that you purchased a digital currency, the chief use for which is trafficking in illegal goods, do you really think a Jury of your hard headed peers is going to be convinced you're an innocent victim?
Admittedly the risk is low but it's very real. I say play it safe and use cash/money paks to get your coins -I obviously stand nothing to gain from saying this to Americans (Happy Independence Day by the way!) but believe me you can do without the kind of publicity that may come from purchasing your Bitcoins in an obvious manner.
V.
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How easy is it to use money paks to get BTC using a debit card? I understand there are multiple ways of exchange, any specific website I should try?
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I wouldn't use a debit card to buy btc, but that's just me. I'd cash out the card and then deposit the cash via bitinstant or use the cash to buy a moneypak. Using cash is always safer than cards because they leave an electronic "paper trail." Dwolla->MTG is the least expensive way to obtain btc but it just takes so long for Dwolla to clear the transactions if you don't consent to a credit check for instant approval and they have your bank and other information. I'd rather pay the extra 5% for same-day btc purchases, but again that is just me. Cash deposits are nominally more anonymous than Dwolla->MTG for the reasons stated above, but there is still a risk with cameras etc. Depending on how many btc you plan on using, there are a number of reputable vendors on the SR that will help you, and are the safest option for laundering or buying suspicious amounts of btc. Limitless is one that comes to mind, and there are others.
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Once you wait the 30 days on Dwolla can you use it as freely as you want??
Also I'm new to this - like two months, and bitcoins have gone up over $1 in that time. WTF?
The 30 day wait period is only for certain Dwolla accounts and Mitum Sigilum (sp) is one of them. Btc fluctuate by the minute but I believe more and more people are using btc so the fiat price reflects the demand. Personally, I think this is a good thing because it shows that people are confident in the value of btc.
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Dont get ripped off by a MP vendor!
Just use bitinstant, and coinapult to your email or tormail, you will have your coins 1 hour after your deposit and in your sr wallet in 5 hours total or less. Deposits are made at the bank closest to you, very many to choose from and deposits are anonymous and not associated with bitcoin, just "trustcash llc" a separate llc from bitinstant
I still don't see why being validated on Dwolla and Mt.Gox and then to be able to transfer directly between for only 25cents (iirc) and then tumbling your coins is not the preferred method since it's got the least transaction fees and/or third-party charges. Maybe I'm missing something but spending extra 4% + fee for using BitInstant or an inflated USD/BTC rate for using a MP vendor does not seem to make sense, especially with the prices on SR being as high already. I'm sure most will say "duh, to be more anonymous!" but I hardly worry about getting investigated by LE for legitimately buying a couple hundred dollars worth of BTCs now and then...
Yes, "legitimately" being the operative word - we all know there are perfectly legal uses for Bitcoins but common sense tells us that their main purpose is to buy illegal goods. As a Bitcoin Trader I only accept cash in the mail for the simple reason it's one of the few safe ways (along with selling Moneypaks) to obtain BTC safely.
You also need to bear in mind there's a difference between linking someone to a specific transaction because they were unable or unwilling to use a coin mixer and proving they bought Bitcoins in the first place, which is trivial if you go ahead and use Paypal/Credit card/Bank transfer to do so. Even cash deposit at a bank is not as anonymous as you might think - I know this because I work in one and started off as a cashier; the time of every transaction (including cash over the counter) is logged and it would be very easy to review the security camera footage to work out who made a deposit at a particular time for a certain amount - once again I know this because we've done this on several occasions to combat money launderers.
The only counterargument I've really seen against this are buyers who don't believe they buy enough Bitcoins to make it worth the Police's trouble to track them down. In actual fact it's no more or less trouble to spot someone has purchased one Bitcoin or a thousand if they've used a method that can be linked to them but I am usually able to persuade them of the logic of a "What If" scenario, namely:
If a package containing illegal goods is sent to your door and you accept it into your home, you can be arrested. If you later try to claim that you had no knowledge of its contents and it can be proven in court that you purchased a digital currency, the chief use for which is trafficking in illegal goods, do you really think a Jury of your hard headed peers is going to be convinced you're an innocent victim?
Admittedly the risk is low but it's very real. I say play it safe and use cash/money paks to get your coins -I obviously stand nothing to gain from saying this to Americans (Happy Independence Day by the way!) but believe me you can do without the kind of publicity that may come from purchasing your Bitcoins in an obvious manner.
V.
You make a lot of good points. I just feel like I would have to have a pretty significant purchase intercepted in order for any LE to actually think of me as an SR user and worth their time to try and surprise visit or search warrant my place (not that that has never happened). I usually buy small quantities of things so the chance I am worth some detective's time seems very low to me...but in the event I somehow did get arrested from it, it would only be a gram or two of something which could happen regardless of SR even existing.
Either that, or maybe LE monitor large BTC transactions and then they check somehow if it was used for something illegal. Maybe somehow they follow those larger BTC address transactions all the way through tumblers to possibly an identifiable USD/BTC exchange site and force my information from that site.
I'm sure it could happen, I guess part of me hates higher fees...a lot ???
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Dont get ripped off by a MP vendor!
Just use bitinstant, and coinapult to your email or tormail, you will have your coins 1 hour after your deposit and in your sr wallet in 5 hours total or less. Deposits are made at the bank closest to you, very many to choose from and deposits are anonymous and not associated with bitcoin, just "trustcash llc" a separate llc from bitinstant
I still don't see why being validated on Dwolla and Mt.Gox and then to be able to transfer directly between for only 25cents (iirc) and then tumbling your coins is not the preferred method since it's got the least transaction fees and/or third-party charges. Maybe I'm missing something but spending extra 4% + fee for using BitInstant or an inflated USD/BTC rate for using a MP vendor does not seem to make sense, especially with the prices on SR being as high already. I'm sure most will say "duh, to be more anonymous!" but I hardly worry about getting investigated by LE for legitimately buying a couple hundred dollars worth of BTCs now and then...
Yes, "legitimately" being the operative word - we all know there are perfectly legal uses for Bitcoins but common sense tells us that their main purpose is to buy illegal goods. As a Bitcoin Trader I only accept cash in the mail for the simple reason it's one of the few safe ways (along with selling Moneypaks) to obtain BTC safely.
You also need to bear in mind there's a difference between linking someone to a specific transaction because they were unable or unwilling to use a coin mixer and proving they bought Bitcoins in the first place, which is trivial if you go ahead and use Paypal/Credit card/Bank transfer to do so. Even cash deposit at a bank is not as anonymous as you might think - I know this because I work in one and started off as a cashier; the time of every transaction (including cash over the counter) is logged and it would be very easy to review the security camera footage to work out who made a deposit at a particular time for a certain amount - once again I know this because we've done this on several occasions to combat money launderers.
The only counterargument I've really seen against this are buyers who don't believe they buy enough Bitcoins to make it worth the Police's trouble to track them down. In actual fact it's no more or less trouble to spot someone has purchased one Bitcoin or a thousand if they've used a method that can be linked to them but I am usually able to persuade them of the logic of a "What If" scenario, namely:
If a package containing illegal goods is sent to your door and you accept it into your home, you can be arrested. If you later try to claim that you had no knowledge of its contents and it can be proven in court that you purchased a digital currency, the chief use for which is trafficking in illegal goods, do you really think a Jury of your hard headed peers is going to be convinced you're an innocent victim?
Admittedly the risk is low but it's very real. I say play it safe and use cash/money paks to get your coins -I obviously stand nothing to gain from saying this to Americans (Happy Independence Day by the way!) but believe me you can do without the kind of publicity that may come from purchasing your Bitcoins in an obvious manner.
V.
You make a lot of good points. I just feel like I would have to have a pretty significant purchase intercepted in order for any LE to actually think of me as an SR user and worth their time to try and surprise visit or search warrant my place (not that that has never happened). I usually buy small quantities of things so the chance I am worth some detective's time seems very low to me...but in the event I somehow did get arrested from it, it would only be a gram or two of something which could happen regardless of SR even existing.
Either that, or maybe LE monitor large BTC transactions and then they check somehow if it was used for something illegal. Maybe somehow they follow those larger BTC address transactions all the way through tumblers to possibly an identifiable USD/BTC exchange site and force my information from that site.
I'm sure it could happen, I guess part of me hates higher fees...a lot ???
Yeah, it would have to be thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars worth of btc for LE to take notice. Besides, one could argue that buying personal amounts on SR is much safer than doing so on the streets. Never heard of anyone being busted for buying on SR yet, but have heard of countless people being arrested on the street for both buying and/or selling. That's something to consider. Also, there is no doubt that LE follows large btc transactions to the furthest extent. If it is possible, they will do it.
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So I WOULD have to wait for every Dwolla deposit to clear for 30 days before moving it? Or just the 1st? Thanks!
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So I WOULD have to wait for every Dwolla deposit to clear for 30 days before moving it? Or just the 1st? Thanks!
No, you would need to have your Dwolla account for 30 days before you can transfer funds to another Dwolla account that requires you to be a Dwolla member for 30 days. After the first 30 days, you can transfer as much as you like at any time to any Dwolla account. Supposedly this is a security measure, but I can't see how this would make anything more secure. As others have said, I would personally advise against using Dwolla to purchase bitcoins. I personally do not like the idea of giving anyone my bank info if I can help it. A cash deposit via bitinstant is faster and safer, but costs 5% of your purchase. Seems worth it to me if you want to be safer and have bitcoins in your SR account the same day.
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So I WOULD have to wait for every Dwolla deposit to clear for 30 days before moving it? Or just the 1st? Thanks!
No, you would need to have your Dwolla account for 30 days before you can transfer funds to another Dwolla account that requires you to be a Dwolla member for 30 days. After the first 30 days, you can transfer as much as you like at any time to any Dwolla account. Supposedly this is a security measure, but I can't see how this would make anything more secure. As others have said, I would personally advise against using Dwolla to purchase bitcoins. I personally do not like the idea of giving anyone my bank info if I can help it. A cash deposit via bitinstant is faster and safer, but costs 5% of your purchase. Seems worth it to me if you want to be safer and have bitcoins in your SR account the same day.
Yeah I guess I am just lazy. Dwolla instant -> Mt.Gox -> IW / BF -> SR all within 30 mins, no fees, and all from home. :)
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So I WOULD have to wait for every Dwolla deposit to clear for 30 days before moving it? Or just the 1st? Thanks!
No, you would need to have your Dwolla account for 30 days before you can transfer funds to another Dwolla account that requires you to be a Dwolla member for 30 days. After the first 30 days, you can transfer as much as you like at any time to any Dwolla account. Supposedly this is a security measure, but I can't see how this would make anything more secure. As others have said, I would personally advise against using Dwolla to purchase bitcoins. I personally do not like the idea of giving anyone my bank info if I can help it. A cash deposit via bitinstant is faster and safer, but costs 5% of your purchase. Seems worth it to me if you want to be safer and have bitcoins in your SR account the same day.
Yeah I guess I am just lazy. Dwolla instant -> Mt.Gox -> IW / BF -> SR all within 30 mins, no fees, and all from home. :)
Hey, if you can take the risk of using Dwolla and exposing your personal info to Dwolla and MTG then it is the cheapest way to obtain bitcoins without leaving your home or knowing somebody. If I weren't so cautious, I'd use Dwolla all day long because fuck all these fees! But I'm not willing to take the risk, even if it is slight.
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Yeah I guess I am just lazy. Dwolla instant -> Mt.Gox -> IW / BF -> SR all within 30 mins, no fees, and all from home. :)
This is what I want to do so badly - not have to leave my home and talk in person to humans!. Obviously I know that making a transaction online is VERY much not preferable to doing it anon with cash at a bank, but like jackintherox, I too am exceedingly lazy, and uncomfortable interacting with a bank teller doing bitcoiny stuffs. I feel so exposed and vulnerable and like the teller could read my mind or know something was up.
jackintherox, if I interpreted your method correctly (Dwolla instant -> Mt.Gox -> IW / BF -> SR), it is:
1 - Dwolla bank transfer direct deposit from your bank to Dwolla,
2 - then buying Bitcoins at Mt.Gox with Dwolla funds,
3 - then sending those coins to InstaWallet? and/or BitCoinFog,
4 - and finally to SilkRoad.
Correct? You really feel comfortable doing that? How many times have you done it? If I could do it that way and feel safe I would love it. I mean if BitCoinFog and InstaWallet and BlockChain etc. are doing what they are supposed to do, then shouldn't sending the coins through one or two of them then to SR be sufficient to separate you and your original legit Dwolla and Mr.Gox transaction from where the BitCoins end up after being laundered once or twice?
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A Jury would not be swayed by the bitcoins = drugs argument.
The price of bitcoins has rocketed so investing is actually a job for some lucky bastards.
Also, bitcoins are mined (created on computers with powerful and expensive graphic cards)
There are a ton of legal goods on sale here. Anything from a iphone to a handbag.
And BTC gambling.
BTC charity.
BTC is just money. Money is used to buy drugs but no jury would convict on the strength of money being found.
Anyone buying hundreds of bitcoins via bank transfers, avoids the tax vendors charge whilst if everyone bought BTC openly then we would see it widen so that we end up with a BTC ebay or BTC pay per view watching me suck my own manhood.
Me love you long long time. 4 BTC for 30 mins of long love time.
Send BTC to whatever - redalloverthelandguy
Long time love!
So good!
(things a man has to do!)
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This is what I want to do so badly - not have to leave my home and talk in person to humans!. Obviously I know that making a transaction online is VERY much not preferable to doing it anon with cash at a bank, but like jackintherox, I too am exceedingly lazy, and uncomfortable interacting with a bank teller doing bitcoiny stuffs. I feel so exposed and vulnerable and like the teller could read my mind or know something was up.
I feel you, but dude the bitinstant/moneygram/walmart method is so painless. Last time I did it, I quietly walked up to the Walmart customer service desk, took one of the moneygram forms from the holder, filled it out, handed it to the girl along with my cash. She said maybe 5 words to me. And I had my coins by the time I got back home..so convenient. I mean, you do leave the house to get groceries and whatnot occasionally I assume. Just do this the next time youre planning to hot walmart.
Yes the dwolla->MtGox->wallet method is cheaper, but the whole process takes several business days and of course there's the whole issue of dwolla having your identity, and the rumors of the Man watching MtGox closely, if you care about that stuff.
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A Jury would not be swayed by the bitcoins = drugs argument.
That's something of a sweeping statement. A Jury would not be persuaded that evidence you bought the staple currency used on Silk Road had any relevance to a package containing contraband was delivered to your home...?
It's at times like these I'm happy I don't use drugs! :-D
To repeat, the ONLY safe ways to obtain Bitcoins are by using cash or selling products/services - any other method can be used to identify the original purchase of your coins and in turn you.
V.
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Yeah I guess I am just lazy. Dwolla instant -> Mt.Gox -> IW / BF -> SR all within 30 mins, no fees, and all from home. :)
This is what I want to do so badly - not have to leave my home and talk in person to humans!. Obviously I know that making a transaction online is VERY much not preferable to doing it anon with cash at a bank, but like jackintherox, I too am exceedingly lazy, and uncomfortable interacting with a bank teller doing bitcoiny stuffs. I feel so exposed and vulnerable and like the teller could read my mind or know something was up.
jackintherox, if I interpreted your method correctly (Dwolla instant -> Mt.Gox -> IW / BF -> SR), it is:
1 - Dwolla bank transfer direct deposit from your bank to Dwolla,
2 - then buying Bitcoins at Mt.Gox with Dwolla funds,
3 - then sending those coins to InstaWallet? and/or BitCoinFog,
4 - and finally to SilkRoad.
Correct? You really feel comfortable doing that? How many times have you done it? If I could do it that way and feel safe I would love it. I mean if BitCoinFog and InstaWallet and BlockChain etc. are doing what they are supposed to do, then shouldn't sending the coins through one or two of them then to SR be sufficient to separate you and your original legit Dwolla and Mr.Gox transaction from where the BitCoins end up after being laundered once or twice?
Correct. What is the harm in being validated at MtGox and Dwolla? Bitcoins are not illegal, and if you clean them how can they be traced/who would want to trace my little amounts of bitcoins that I buy. I have used this method over the last few months to spend over $4000 on the SR and so far so good (knock on wood?). SR and IW or BF both tumble coins and I have no bought anything over half an ounce so I doubt I am any sort of target. Stay with reliable sellers and you should be fine.
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Correct. What is the harm in being validated at MtGox and Dwolla? Bitcoins are not illegal, and if you clean them how can they be traced/who would want to trace my little amounts of bitcoins that I buy. I have used this method over the last few months to spend over $4000 on the SR and so far so good (knock on wood?). SR and IW or BF both tumble coins and I have no bought anything over half an ounce so I doubt I am any sort of target. Stay with reliable sellers and you should be fine.
Oh, the naivete! I give up...
V.
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Correct. What is the harm in being validated at MtGox and Dwolla? Bitcoins are not illegal, and if you clean them how can they be traced/who would want to trace my little amounts of bitcoins that I buy. I have used this method over the last few months to spend over $4000 on the SR and so far so good (knock on wood?). SR and IW or BF both tumble coins and I have no bought anything over half an ounce so I doubt I am any sort of target. Stay with reliable sellers and you should be fine.
Oh, the naivete! I give up...
V.
I am being quite naive. But can you help me out? What would you prefer? I mean, I am no dealer and never buy large quantities so I feel safe with my tin hat. I know my post sounded too confident in my ways but I am curious as to your input.
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I just got off the bitinstant website and it says that i can have the BTC sent right to my email address....wouldnt this be preferable to sending them to mtgox? Would it not be safer to have them sent to my tormail then to bitfog then to SR?
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why dont you post on one of the many threads about the exact topic rather than thread from four months ago that doesnt even have anything to do with your question?
and you just got off bitinstant??? really? because for me and everyone else the email is no longer an option
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:-[ sorry, i guess i didnt look to see how old the post was....thought it was about buying btc...thats what i was reading anyways....extremely new here so i guess i got lost and confused....and yes, when i posted that question i had just got off the site and it said i can have them emailed to me. Such an odd response to such a simple question...sorry...didnt mean to offend you...in the meantime i found a way to get btc on SR...didnt know i could do that either...now i do...thanks for the negative unhelpful response that didnt answer anything for me.............