Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: BenCousins on June 28, 2012, 05:00 am
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so i already use a fairly anonymous way of transfering IRL dollars into BTC and i normally just go Cash over counter > SR account.
Just wondering if silk road tumbles when it comes in/when it goes out or when it transfers through SR.
And is there any way of my BTC addresse i give them (i generate a new addresse for each transaction) be linked to SR? Its only a jumble of letters and numbers so i dont see how but i do not understand how the block chain/public transaction history works really
Thanks
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so i already use a fairly anonymous way of transfering IRL dollars into BTC and i normally just go Cash over counter > SR account.
Just wondering if silk road tumbles when it comes in/when it goes out or when it transfers through SR.
And is there any way of my BTC addresse i give them (i generate a new addresse for each transaction) be linked to SR? Its only a jumble of letters and numbers so i dont see how but i do not understand how the block chain/public transaction history works really
Thanks
SR do not mix when coming in.
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so the transaction is in the blockchain? surely you couldnt tell its a SR addresse couldyou?
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so the transaction is in the blockchain? surely you couldnt tell its a SR addresse couldyou?
No you can not tell it's a silk road account by the address, but when in doubt use bitcoinfog.
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so the transaction is in the blockchain? surely you couldnt tell its a SR addresse couldyou?
Hi Ben,
I did a few tests on this myself, Bitcoins are tumbled when being withdrawn from SR wallet addresses not when being sent to them. Of course you can always have a separate SR account to send to first before sending to your main one. Alternatively you can use your SR account to withdraw your coins to your own wallet address which will make it very difficult to trace your transactions.
Remember as I said the only way to obtain Bitcoins safely is to buy them with cash or goods e.g MoneyPaks.
All the best,
V.
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SR do not mix when coming in.
this sentence is meaningless, there always has to be an entry point to a mix, how can a mix mix before the funds hit the mix?
That's right, no mix coming in; mix coming out.
BB
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I was wondering the same thing actually. How safe is it to transfer directly into the wallet? I know when sending the BTC go through a bunch of different wallets before getting to the destination wallet but is it not the same for transferring into the wallet?
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I was wondering the same thing actually. How safe is it to transfer directly into the wallet? I know when sending the BTC go through a bunch of different wallets before getting to the destination wallet but is it not the same for transferring into the wallet?
This all depends on how you obtained your Bitcoins in the first place.
If you obtained your Bitcoins safely by buying them with cash or through selling goods e.g MoneyPaks then there's no material benefit as far as I can see in transferring your coins through multiple wallets before sending them straight to your SR address.
If you used a traceable method to buy your Bitcoins e.g bank transfer then without using a coin mixer it will be possible to trace your transactions throughout the Bitcoin block chain. The best way to illustrate this is to go to www.blockchain.info which is an online representation of the block chain and type your SR wallet address into the bar at the top right. You'll see the balance of your address as well as the amount of coins you've received at that address and the address where those coins came from.
You can take the addresses from which you've received coins and do the same thing to trace back the coins to the very first wallet address where your coins were received - this is true whether you send your coins straight to SR after buying them or send them via a dozen different wallets, so in a sense you're right in saying it isn't much safer.
If you insist on using a traceable method to buy your Bitcoins, I would recommend using a mixing service (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mixing_service) - these are designed specifically to prevent the kind of analysis I've outlined above and will increase your safety.
Silk Road itself has a built in coin mixer for withdrawals but not deposit i.e your coins are not "mixed" when they arrive in your wallet but will be when they leave it. Of course there's no reason you can't have a separate SR account to receive payments then withdraw them to your real one if you want but if you want to be ultra safe I'd recommend using the mixing service Bitcoinfog (http://fogcore5n3ov3tui.onion/) - for a small commission (1-3%) your coins can be mixed and withdrawn in random amounts over a longer period of time which is better than SR's mixer which tumbles your Bitcoins on the spot. No reason you can't use both of course!
At the risk of sounding like a plug if you buy your coins using cash from a Bitcoin trader like me then you can save yourself all this worry and bother!
V.
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This all depends on how you obtained your Bitcoins in the first place.
If you obtained your Bitcoins safely by buying them with cash or through selling goods e.g MoneyPaks then there's no material benefit as far as I can see in transferring your coins through multiple wallets before sending them straight to your SR address.
If you used a traceable method to buy your Bitcoins e.g bank transfer then without using a coin mixer it will be possible to trace your transactions throughout the Bitcoin block chain. The best way to illustrate this is to go to www.blockchain.info which is an online representation of the block chain and type your SR wallet address into the bar at the top right. You'll see the balance of your address as well as the amount of coins you've received at that address and the address where those coins came from.
You can take the addresses from which you've received coins and do the same thing to trace back the coins to the very first wallet address where your coins were received - this is true whether you send your coins straight to SR after buying them or send them via a dozen different wallets, so in a sense you're right in saying it isn't much safer.
If you insist on using a traceable method to buy your Bitcoins, I would recommend using a mixing service (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mixing_service) - these are designed specifically to prevent the kind of analysis I've outlined above and will increase your safety.
Silk Road itself has a built in coin mixer for withdrawals but not deposit i.e your coins are not "mixed" when they arrive in your wallet but will be when they leave it. Of course there's no reason you can't have a separate SR account to receive payments then withdraw them to your real one if you want but if you want to be ultra safe I'd recommend using the mixing service Bitcoinfog (http://fogcore5n3ov3tui.onion/) - for a small commission (1-3%) your coins can be mixed and withdrawn in random amounts over a longer period of time which is better than SR's mixer which tumbles your Bitcoins on the spot. No reason you can't use both of course!
At the risk of sounding like a plug if you buy your coins using cash from a Bitcoin trader like me then you can save yourself all this worry and bother!
V.
Very informative post. Thank you. :D
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what about if LE brought off you to follow there coins? and is there anyway you can trace the BTC clinet wallet you have on your computer to your IP?
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what about if LE brought off you to follow there coins? and is there anyway you can trace the BTC clinet wallet you have on your computer to your IP?
Hi Ben,
First I will answer your second question (if that makes sense!) - Yes your IP address is logged for transactions so you should run your Bitcoin client via TOR, it will take longer but is much safer.
As for your first question, yes this is conceivable but a couple of things make this difficult to detect. Firstly as I explained, SR has it's own coin mixer (by all means visit blockchain.info as I outlined above and test this for yourself as I did, it's a great way better to understand how Bitcoin works). As far as I know buyer's coins are also "mixed" each time they place an order (perhaps one of our more gifted members can confirm?)
Of course this works both ways too - owning "tainted" coins would probably not prove that you necessarily received them in payment for something. A notable example is listed on the Bitcoin Wiki (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=73385.0) whereby a user had received a number of BTC in payments, some of which had apparently been stolen in the great Bitcoinica Heist. He argued successfully that this in itself didn't prove anything as anyone using a mixing service could well have received said "tainted" coins - it didn't reflect on him or his customers. Of course this user was a Bitcoin trader and broker (like me!) so didn't have any reason to conceal the fact he was using Bitcoins as he could readily demonstrate his activities were legal.
Secondly vendors are quite canny at ways of "cashing out" their Bitcoins without leaving a paper trail. I doubt many of them simply wire the funds to an exchange and then to their own bank account as even if it isn't possible to prove they've received the specific coins, large sums showing up in their accounts will merit further investigation.
They can of course skip the bank account issue altogether and use a BTC trader to send them cash in the mail in exchange for their coins (I offer this service myself) or receive precious metals like gold bullion in the mail in exchange for BTC via Coinabul.
There are also other methods to salt away your funds such that even if LEO had made the original purchase it would make it extremely difficult to detect through proxy bank accounts, forming offshore companies etc. I'd rather not go into details as it's an area of finance I only have a small experience with and also you never know who's reading!
V.
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running my BTC wallet rough TOR is as simple as settings>options>connect through socks4 proxy?
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running my BTC wallet rough TOR is as simple as settings>options>connect through socks4 proxy?
Correct!
V.
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And on the way out, go trough IW or something similar.
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Bitcoin Fog?
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Bitcoin Fog?
Yes that is a good diea.
BB