Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: bogben on June 26, 2012, 07:34 pm
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Looking for some input on this idea as I am too close to it be objective but it seems pretty watertight to me.
As I am currently gearing up to make extract some DMT (the prices on SR are just too much compared to the negligable price of making it myself) and I realised that I am starting to accumulate gear that miight be hard to explain in the event of a police visit (seperatory funnel, clamp stand, hotplate/stirrer, heating mantle, various RB flasks, grahams condenser, test tubes, pentane,acetone, heptane fractions, NaOH ect ect). While I could just tell them that I am a collector this seems like a lame excuse and not likely to be much use.
So I have started working on some salvia extractions, trying different solvents for recrsytallisation, just generally making sure there is plenty of salvia crystals/unextracted gunk around as a viable explanation for the glassware and chemicals. Now assuming I am smart enough to keep anything DMT related off the property except when extracting or smoking, this seems bombproof to me but am I missing something really obvious?
As a side note if you like making your own beer/wine or your own biodesiel these would also be good ways to hide otherwise suspicous items.
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Looking for some input on this idea as I am too close to it be objective but it seems pretty watertight to me.
As I am currently gearing up to make extract some DMT (the prices on SR are just too much compared to the negligable price of making it myself) and I realised that I am starting to accumulate gear that miight be hard to explain in the event of a police visit (seperatory funnel, clamp stand, hotplate/stirrer, heating mantle, various RB flasks, grahams condenser, test tubes, pentane,acetone, heptane fractions, NaOH ect ect). While I could just tell them that I am a collector this seems like a lame excuse and not likely to be much use.
So I have started working on some salvia extractions, trying different solvents for recrsytallisation, just generally making sure there is plenty of salvia crystals/unextracted gunk around as a viable explanation for the glassware and chemicals. Now assuming I am smart enough to keep anything DMT related off the property except when extracting or smoking, this seems bombproof to me but am I missing something really obvious?
As a side note if you like making your own beer/wine or your own biodesiel these would also be good ways to hide otherwise suspicous items.
Why not make your own biodiesel?! I'm serious! It's good for the planet and you'd have a steady stream of grateful people to your door buying it for cash, which would allow you to buy DMT ready made on here? Plus you could also make your own hooch and sell it/drink it by the barrel! Whoever says doing things legally isn't the best way? :-)
V.
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You are thinking of this wrong. You do not have to explain why you have the glassware. The burden of proof lies on the police to PROVE that you were using it for illegitimate purposes, not for you to prove that you weren't. So if the police ask, DO NOT say anything. All you can do at that point is say something that the police can prove is a lie, which will only dig you a deeper hole. You have a right to remain silent - use it =)
Also - and I'm not sure of this - but extracting salvia crystals might not be a good thing. Possibly the police could use it to prove that it's for human consumption? Doesn't seem likely, but I thought I'd mention it to you so you can make the decision.
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You are thinking of this wrong. You do not have to explain why you have the glassware. The burden of proof lies on the police to PROVE that you were using it for illegitimate purposes, not for you to prove that you weren't. So if the police ask, DO NOT say anything. All you can do at that point is say something that the police can prove is a lie, which will only dig you a deeper hole. You have a right to remain silent - use it =)
Also - and I'm not sure of this - but extracting salvia crystals might not be a good thing. Possibly the police could use it to prove that it's for human consumption? Doesn't seem likely, but I thought I'd mention it to you so you can make the decision.
Wrong answer. There is no way that the police will give you an inch if they find labware in your basement. ESPECIALLY if you have things like reagents etc down there as well. The whole thought train on this is silly. You DO NOT EVER want to do this sort of thing IN YOUR HOME. NO. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER. Seriously if you do, you are breaking rule number 1 of labbing. You do that shit in a rented space/allotment shed/unit. NEVER do this where you live.
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You are thinking of this wrong. You do not have to explain why you have the glassware. The burden of proof lies on the police to PROVE that you were using it for illegitimate purposes, not for you to prove that you weren't. So if the police ask, DO NOT say anything. All you can do at that point is say something that the police can prove is a lie, which will only dig you a deeper hole. You have a right to remain silent - use it =)
Also - and I'm not sure of this - but extracting salvia crystals might not be a good thing. Possibly the police could use it to prove that it's for human consumption? Doesn't seem likely, but I thought I'd mention it to you so you can make the decision.
Wrong answer. There is no way that the police will give you an inch if they find labware in your basement. ESPECIALLY if you have things like reagents etc down there as well. The whole thought train on this is silly. You DO NOT EVER want to do this sort of thing IN YOUR HOME. NO. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER. Seriously if you do, you are breaking rule number 1 of labbing. You do that shit in a rented space/allotment shed/unit. NEVER do this where you live.
You make good points, but I don't see how our two opinions are mutually exclusive? Yes, he shouldn't have it in his home - but if the police do go asking about it, he also shouldn't be saying a single word to "explain" why he has it.
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he also shouldn't be saying a single word to "explain" why he has it.
isn't that what lawyers are for?
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You miss the point. What I am saying is that you never even store the equipment in your own home. Go rent a locker or something at a storage ghetto that you see on storage-wars. You NEVER keep anything like that where you live. Go on my SR page and Google image the lab equipment I offer on there. Given, it's obviously not the sort of kit you need for producing a few grams of DMT but the outcome IS THE SAME. You have what the law classes as a laboratory for the manufacture of illicit narcotics. If they catch you with that and there is ANY trace of anything illegal on that equipment they will drop manufacturing charges on you there and then. If they then find anything that can be used as evidence that you have supplied said drugs to others you wont get intent to supply you will just be hit with distribution.
You might now be thinking "Yeah but what if I clean the equipment? It'll be fine then and I wont get nicked". Wrong. Some of the shit that goes on equipment is nigh on impossible to clean off, and I guarantee that you will not get it all. If they find one trace, you are fucked.
Obviously if you are caught by the police doing anything you don't say anything. That's a given. However don't even think if they catch you with lab equipment and reagents etc they wont haul that shit off to forensics as soon as they see it and at that point it wont matter a gnats fuck whether you talked or not. You will be fucked anyway. Not sure about the U.S but in the U.K you would get 15 years MINIMUM for even a minor lab set up and then they'd add more for any conspiracy (which they can do by just two of you being there at the time).
Bottom line is if you are manufacturing drugs be it 1ug to 100tonnes you NEVER EVER do it in your own home.
I'm actually pretty astonished that this was even suggested. If I was next to either of you I'd have to give you a stupid-person punch.
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You are thinking of this wrong. You do not have to explain why you have the glassware. The burden of proof lies on the police to PROVE that you were using it for illegitimate purposes, not for you to prove that you weren't. So if the police ask, DO NOT say anything. All you can do at that point is say something that the police can prove is a lie, which will only dig you a deeper hole. You have a right to remain silent - use it =)
Also - and I'm not sure of this - but extracting salvia crystals might not be a good thing. Possibly the police could use it to prove that it's for human consumption? Doesn't seem likely, but I thought I'd mention it to you so you can make the decision.
Wrong answer. There is no way that the police will give you an inch if they find labware in your basement. ESPECIALLY if you have things like reagents etc down there as well. The whole thought train on this is silly. You DO NOT EVER want to do this sort of thing IN YOUR HOME. NO. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER. Seriously if you do, you are breaking rule number 1 of labbing. You do that shit in a rented space/allotment shed/unit. NEVER do this where you live.
I can't agree more with Lim, if you rent a place for an illegal lab be sure to move to a new place very often !!
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Ill agree with Lim but it really depends on where you live, the local laws, and in the US Reasonable doubt.
In the US some states have laws that require a lab to be registered before owning some types of glassware. Know your local laws! I would also avoid using rental lockers/storage places. Every time I have used one they open the storage room every other month, by cutting the lock off, so they can "Spray for bugs." They see something like that and they will report it!
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Ill agree with Lim but it really depends on where you live, the local laws, and in the US Reasonable doubt.
In the US some states have laws that require a lab to be registered before owning some types of glassware. Know your local laws! I would also avoid using rental lockers/storage places. Every time I have used one they open the storage room every other month, by cutting the lock off, so they can "Spray for bugs." They see something like that and they will report it!
Incorrect. In the U.S manufacturing is a Federal crime. State law goes straight out the window I'm afraid. My point is that when they scrub the glassware (which they do) and find some microcosm of narcotic on there (which they will) you are 100% fucked. You were caught with a lab set up, reagents and then traces of narcotics and on top of that if you were stupid enough to do it where you live in your own home and if you are with someone that's conspiracy.
And yeah, some states may require a license but why would you be registering an underground lab that is going to be producing Narcotics? That's a very bad idea.
Just do yourselves a favor and just accept what I am saying and don't question it.
1. If you are going to manufacture anything keep it out of your house
2. Do not tell anyone about it
3. Do not store the equipment in your home
4. Ensure that the place you locate the lab in is remote/quiet/unused
5. If you are caught kiss your ass goodbye and be silent
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Incorrect. In the U.S manufacturing is a Federal crime. State law goes straight out the window I'm afraid. My point is that when they scrub the glassware (which they do) and find some microcosm of narcotic on there (which they will) you are 100% fucked. You were caught with a lab set up, reagents and then traces of narcotics and on top of that if you were stupid enough to do it where you live in your own home and if you are with someone that's conspiracy.
No, In most cases the state laws are applied and not the federal law's. If the feds want to get involved and they were not the ones working the case they have to push for a change of venue. The only time it defaults to a federal case is if it was a federal investigation pursuant to the arrest.
Micro amounts of narcotics found on lab glass have been disputed many times. It tends to fall back to the dollar test. Test 20 American $1 bills and 17 of them will have narcotic residue.
If you are caught with the glassware, precursors, and reagents you are screwed. However having the glassware and/or reagents is not enough. Then again, if they raid you they WILL have more than just the fact that you have glassware, the glassware will be an add-on.
The reason for this boils down to the fact that the glassware and reagents can be used for a lot of things from making biodiesel to reclaiming gold from old electronics. Heck with glassware, a ball mill, and some reagents/acids you can take uranium ore and make refined yellow cake uranium. Completely legal where I live, think of the fun that could be during a raid. The cop checks the yellow powered and wants to know what it is. :o
And yeah, some states may require a license but why would you be registering an underground lab that is going to be producing Narcotics? That's a very bad idea.
The point was not that you should register, the point was to know what glassware you can have and what you can not have. Asking to buy the wrong types of glassware at the lab supply can get you flagged and they are watched heavily.
Just do yourselves a favor and just accept what I am saying and don't question it.
1. If you are going to manufacture anything keep it out of your house
2. Do not tell anyone about it
3. Do not store the equipment in your home
4. Ensure that the place you locate the lab in is remote/quiet/unused
5. If you are caught kiss your ass goodbye and be silent
I agree with this, all good advice if you intend to manufacture.
The problem is finding #4
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If I was next to either of you I'd have to give you a stupid-person punch.
Hey now, there is no need for violence :P
I'd like to point out that if I could afford a rental space to do this stuff I would be able to afford DMT on here which would make the whole thing moot. While I understand your paranoia limitless and think it is a good idea I think you are giving the foresincs too much credit. That is not entirely speculation either, I have experienced the police forensic work and while it is doubtless POSSIBLE to find microscopic traces on a cleaned piece of glassware they sure as fuck can't do it. They missed all the items I had used for DMT and then cleaned with soap and hot water...so...that doesn't worry me overly. obviously if they break down the door and I'm standing with a bottle of Rootbark extract in my hand its all over. Also every solvent/reagent has a legitmate other use (eg acetone as degreaser, NaOH as drain unblocker ect).
I agree with all your points LIm but I quitrew frankly can't afford that level of security and I don't see how this lower level is less secure (obvious exceptions aside).
I'm not sure I'd call a plastic bottle and a pyrex baking tray a "lab"....... :P
While I know I don't have to justify it, a reasonable explanation is never a bad thing to have.
Jameslink2, that is quite right they CAN be used for anything and I hope to create a legitimate cover for them (salvia and all its extracts are 100% legal here)
What! make Biodeisel? And encourage people to drive? Never! :P
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If I was next to either of you I'd have to give you a stupid-person punch.
Hey now, there is no need for violence :P
I'd like to point out that if I could afford a rental space to do this stuff I would be able to afford DMT on here which would make the whole thing moot. While I understand your paranoia limitless and think it is a good idea I think you are giving the foresincs too much credit. That is not entirely speculation either, I have experienced the police forensic work and while it is doubtless POSSIBLE to find microscopic traces on a cleaned piece of glassware they sure as fuck can't do it. They missed all the items I had used for DMT and then cleaned with soap and hot water...so...that doesn't worry me overly. obviously if they break down the door and I'm standing with a bottle of Rootbark extract in my hand its all over. Also every solvent/reagent has a legitmate other use (eg acetone as degreaser, NaOH as drain unblocker ect).
I agree with all your points LIm but I quitrew frankly can't afford that level of security and I don't see how this lower level is less secure (obvious exceptions aside).
I'm not sure I'd call a plastic bottle and a pyrex baking tray a "lab"....... :P
While I know I don't have to justify it, a reasonable explanation is never a bad thing to have.
Jameslink2, that is quite right they CAN be used for anything and I hope to create a legitimate cover for them (salvia and all its extracts are 100% legal here)
What! make Biodeisel? And encourage people to drive? Never! :P
LOL you think anyone with common sense calls a plastic bottle and a pyrex baking tray a lab? No, they do not. However the LAW does. You seem to be making the mistake that many people in that you are assuming that if caught the law will see your activity the same way you do and will give you a slap on the wrist. Good luck with that train of thought...it has fucked many people over..
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If the law and common sense overlapped more this would be a much better world!
The Law is an ass eh? No worries, I know they will try to charge me as large scale manufacturer and supplier of drugs should they find anything, and as I say, if caught producing I am fucked (as I would be where ever I was when caught). However the plan is not be caught (or at worst smoking it - then its personal use) and from my experience a good wash is enough though being older and ...well older I will now be scrubbing out with acetone, water,methanol and then water again. But thanks Lim, I needed that injection of paranoia! I was feeling entirely too comfortable and that is when mistakes are made (I should know).
The question is "yes I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough"
I think Bill Hicks said it best "the war on drugs is a war on personal freedoms"
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LOL you think anyone with common sense calls a plastic bottle and a pyrex baking tray a lab? No, they do not. However the LAW does.
Lim, There is a law on the books in the US that makes it illegal to own a device that filters a liquid across a substance and into a pyrex beaker. It was passed as part of a law to ban meth labs.
*pours him self a fresh cup of coffee*
I always wondered how they were going to enforce a ban on coffee pots.
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Yeah I mean if you are only doing a few grams you obviously aren't going to need a unit but Christ don't do it in your own home. My point is that no matter the amount, the level of cautiousness and planning should be exactly the same.
And Jameslink yes, of course lol. The difference is what it's used for and if it's caught not filtering coffee then bad times. Also the facetiousness isn't needed. :)
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You are quite right Lim, maybe I'll go hide in the woods and do it :P (grams? grams! ahh I wish I could make grams! 0.5g is a good haul! thats like...10 giantic trips or 15 moderate ones - quite enough to be going on with).
lol....coffee....I do sometimes wonder what the law makers are thinking when they do those things , rather like the UK's determination to ban anything and everything that contains an amine group :P its practically heroin!