Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: bornintheusa on June 20, 2012, 04:56 am
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Ok so I've been wondering this for some time now, but don't like posting in the forums because I'm a Luddite compared to most of you, and I'm just fucking paranoid. How many people out there are getting knocks on the door from LE? Every time I see someone post on here about a raid, they're stoned to death through text, accused of being LE, and slammed for like 3 pages. I for one want to know about people's experience with this, so I can attempt to stay out of the same boat..so how many cases are really out there of people getting busted on here? Vendors all say their shipping is 95%99% successful, but who really knows? I have to imagine this question has been asked before, but I haven't really been able to find it. BTW I'm not asking for case numbers, indictments, or anyone on here to be on some dry snitch shit. I would just like to get a good idea of how safe what we are doing really is(obviously it's not a daytime jog through the burbs).
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As a buyer on SR, it's very difficult to be arrested, let alone prosecuted. Say your order something from abroad and even if customs pick it up, they can't actually prove you ordered/purchased it (remember, anyone can said anything to anyone in the post), unless they take all the time and effort to come to your house and search through your computer. Which they'd have to get a warrant for in the first place. And anyone with half a brain cell will wipe their computer of SR data after they order.
So the best thing to do if you get a customs letter is ignore it, and if they try to take it further DENY at all costs.
So as long as you:
- use PGP keys whenever you can.
- order from trusted, well rep'd venders.
- if you get a customs letter or asked to come to the post office when you're expecting an order to come, ignore it, if they take i further deny you ordered anything and don't take responsibility for it.
- after every order wipe all SR data from your computer; TOR cache, cookies, saved passwords, history etc..
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You have an exponentially higher chance of getting caught while using the drugs you buy off SR than actually using/ordering/receiving from SR.
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also, if you are sending your address (encrypted or not) to a new vendor or a vendor you suspect has been picked up by LE and is now assuming their SR seller account, it would be a good idea to do surveillance of your address before, during and after the time your package arrives. if you see no stakeout, you should feel a little less paranoid. good luck
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There are at least 10 known cases of people in jail since they started to buy / sell on SR. Although not everyone knows about it, because the adminds don't want to spread panic over here. But everyone who is not retarded knows this already.
So, is every media outlet in the world also in on this coverup? I can't find a single case like you mention- but you say there are at least ten "known" cases? Known by whom?
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You have an exponentially higher chance of getting caught while using the drugs you buy off SR than actually using/ordering/receiving from SR.
^THIS^
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This actually surprises me every day and I think about this a lot:
SR is huge, judging by the number of vendors and sellers. It's responsible for lots and lots of drug traffic. Yet, it's been around for years and yet it's still in business (and is doing well). It's not heard of in main media other than the initial publicity it's gotten from NPR. Granted, SR is nothing compared to street trade by local gangs and mafia, but it's nevertheless would be a sweet victory for DEA to have it shut down.
All it takes is ONE rogue trusted member or ONE bug in the code to have the location of this site exposed (and potentially buyer and vendor info). Judging from the number of bugs in commercial software (including security software and even NASA software), SR must have at least a few bugs. There are ignorant buyers and vendors, and just about any LE can simply join SR and start buying and/or selling. DEA can throw tons of money and all kinds of experts to have SR exposed.
With all that in mind, how is it that SR is still around? This baffles me.
So when I order from SR, I always order with the following in mind: SR might not be here tomorrow, so stock up, and save vendor contact information for the black day.
Sorry to be a pessimist/paranoid, but I just can't believe SR even exists (though I'm really thankful that it does).
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I've been behaving the same way, but I've been here since February now, seen a few different scenarios of major news outlets around the world running stories on this place, and it's always been here the next day.
Looking at my transaction history I'm beginning to realize I can't afford to be stockpiling for the apocalypse forever. But hey, if you can afford to do that more power to you.
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I'm glad I got some responses on this one. At least I know i'm not crazy, and there are others out there wondering this same thing. I mean I know the deal. I know how the concept works, but that's why I ask about people who have been busted. It's like..how did they fuck up so hard? It seems like tor and plausible deniability take care of about 99% of the risk and everything else we are doing is to minimize that 1%. So what the hell is the story with these 10 cases? I guess i'm retarded, but I haven't found shit about them on here.
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All it takes is ONE rogue trusted member or ONE bug in the code to have the location of this site exposed (and potentially buyer and vendor info). Judging from the number of bugs in commercial software (including security software and even NASA software), SR must have at least a few bugs. There are ignorant buyers and vendors, and just about any LE can simply join SR and start buying and/or selling. DEA can throw tons of money and all kinds of experts to have SR exposed.
The location of the site is no secret, it doesn't take a bug in the code to work it out at all. The reality is that:
A) You cut off the head of the hydra and 10 grow back. This site has strict rules, you cant sell people, fake currency etc etc here and the DEA loves that, they know this devil, they know it's just small scale drug purchasing and they don't care. Look at all the other sites that sold card details and human slaves, they get shut down in days. This site is like the tolerated badly behaved family member.
B) The DEA can't shut it down anyway, it's hosted by criminal gangs in Russia who openly flaunt the illegal stuff they host and actually rub it in the US authorities faces as often as they can.
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#1. SR has only been around for about a year and a half. Not years. But congratulations on making it a year since Chucky Schumer made a bunch of noize about shutting down SR.
#2. Carder sites are not shut down quickly. While not even using hidden services, they get investigated for several years before they are swooped down upon all at once with coordinated raids. In the meantime, they grow and grow and get away with a lot of crime.
#3. DEA is basically not skilled enough to be up to the job of shutting down SR. If it happens, it will involve a swath of law enforcement agencies, most likely including the FBI. I wouldn't be surprised if they needed help from NSA to do it.
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Look at all the other sites that sold card details and human slaves, they get shut down in days.
Did any of these sites transact in Bitcoins? I can't help feeling that with the world economic situation the way it is, Bitcoin is their main concern, not website based international drug dealing.
@OP
Any buyer who got arrested here would only have been subject to the sort of punishment that small quantities of drugs would normally attract. Anything else would
Several of my packages didn't arrive, a couple were blatant scams (got that refund;) ), others were clearly nabbed by LE.
No knocks. Nothing.
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There are at least 10 known cases of people in jail since they started to buy / sell on SR. Although not everyone knows about it, because the adminds don't want to spread panic over here. But everyone who is not retarded knows this already.
So, is every media outlet in the world also in on this coverup? I can't find a single case like you mention- but you say there are at least ten "known" cases? Known by whom?
Again I ask- where are these 10+ cases? This is a crock of shit.
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There are at least 10 known cases of people in jail since they started to buy / sell on SR. Although not everyone knows about it, because the adminds don't want to spread panic over here. But everyone who is not retarded knows this already.
So, is every media outlet in the world also in on this coverup? I can't find a single case like you mention- but you say there are at least ten "known" cases? Known by whom?
Again I ask- where are these 10+ cases? This is a crock of shit.
+1 ... sounds exaggerated
I have read one guy talking about getting busted over supertrips mdma ... but it wasnt the guy who was busted, but someone talking about another using who got busted ... other than that, I have heard of a few love letters but nothing else really ...
regards
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Look at all the other sites that sold card details and human slaves, they get shut down in days.
Did any of these sites transact in Bitcoins? I can't help feeling that with the world economic situation the way it is, Bitcoin is their main concern, not website based international drug dealing.
@OP
Any buyer who got arrested here would only have been subject to the sort of punishment that small quantities of drugs would normally attract. Anything else would
Several of my packages didn't arrive, a couple were blatant scams (got that refund;) ), others were clearly nabbed by LE.
No knocks. Nothing.
So did you still use the same address after some packages were nabbed by LE. My question, if you did use the same address, did they still arrive ? The stealthier ones?
I'm wondering whether or not it's worth it for them to flag an address and somehow check all packages to that address. I don't think it is. And I don't think they do flag addresses, because that's just utterly useless, since anyone could just use another address.
I just want some facts too, though.
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There are at least 10 known cases of people in jail since they started to buy / sell on SR. Although not everyone knows about it, because the adminds don't want to spread panic over here. But everyone who is not retarded knows this already.
So, is every media outlet in the world also in on this coverup? I can't find a single case like you mention- but you say there are at least ten "known" cases? Known by whom?
Again I ask- where are these 10+ cases? This is a crock of shit.
+1 ... sounds exaggerated
I have read one guy talking about getting busted over supertrips mdma ... but it wasnt the guy who was busted, but someone talking about another using who got busted ... other than that, I have heard of a few love letters but nothing else really ...
regards
The neighbors brought DEA attention to my building, and the smell of the great smoke from SR got the DEA at my door. I let em in like a stupid, handed em over all the drugs and they left. Have had packages delivered to the same address after the incident and had no problems. Grand Jury meets next month Will I be indichted? I got Bail Money I got BitCoin Money. I havent consulted with an attorny. They didnt arrest me, the lead agent even left me my bong and some weed to smoke. The city cops where like your leaving drugs behind? The Agent was like "yeah I want him to think about what just happened"
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ya sounds like he pulled the # 10 out his ass. there arent really any know sr busts i can think of off hand and someone who was busted may be reluctant to post it. tbh idk how many ppl have been busted thru sr. if youre careful and a buyer youll be fine. there have, however, been non sr vendors who were busted
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Yes- as much as the media and Chuck the fuck Schumer were all over SR, it would be an explosive story if someone got busted for a SR transaction.
And as far as shutting down SR, Chuck the fuck, how is that going for you? Can we get a progress report brother?
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Dude.. Just make sure your house + computer is clean for every parcel if you're that worried. Have your drugs stashed somewhere else, cash too.
That way, even if they do raid you, you can play dumb.
All the SR cases that have involved raids, they found drugs on the premises
That's all that needs to be said, take the hint. Keep your house + PC clean.
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Guru, I find it hard to believe that the NSA is that lawless
If they're that paranoid, and have come this far, and care this much, they must have very very very very very deep operatives and assets... (~I'm not saying they dont)
IF they knew where bin laden was, they know where DPR is now.. They must have that technology.
So why don't they shut him down? What is their protocol? Why do we seem to escape unharmed?
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Guru, I find it hard to believe that the NSA is that lawless
The only response I can give you is to read Bamford's books (See list below).
If they're that paranoid, and have come this far, and care this much, they must have very very very very very deep operatives and assets... (~I'm not saying they dont)
My understanding is that NSA relies on sigint (signals intelligence) as opposed to humint (human intelligence).
IF they knew where bin laden was, they know where DPR is now.. They must have that technology.
So why don't they shut him down? What is their protocol? Why do we seem to escape unharmed?
It's entirely possible that they know who DPR is, and where they are located. As to why they don't shut him down, or why we escape unharmed, I suspect it is that they don't care -- likely, from their perspective, DPR is small potatoes. I believe they could care less.
Bibliography:
Bamford, James (1982). The Puzzle Palace: a Report on America's Most Secret Agency. Houghton Mifflin. ISBN 0-14-006748-5.
Bamford, James (2001). The Puzzle Palace: Inside the National Security Agency, America's Most Secret Intelligence Organization. Viking Pr. ISBN 0-14-023116-1.
Bamford, James (April 30, 2002). Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency. Anchor. ISBN 0-385-49908-6.
Bamford, James (May 10, 2005). A Pretext for War: 9/11, Iraq, and the Abuse of America's Intelligence Agencies. Anchor. ISBN 1-4000-3034-X.
Bamford, James (September 16, 2008). The Shadow Factory: The Ultra-Secret NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America. Doubleday. ISBN 0-385-52132-4.
Many of these books are available on torrent sites.
Guru
I will read these books as this is a subject that interests me greatly.
I hope this isn't just a way for you to appear legit (not saying that), I just hope not. I'll get back to you when I've read the books and have a more informed opinion. At the moment I'm just taking shots in the dark.
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It also seems entirely possible that the NSA would be able to find Bin Laden but not DPR. Al Qaeda has used stenography and unencrypted media to store sensitive files among other stupidly lax security methods, whereas there is some evidence that governmental agencies don't have good TOR exploits at the moment.
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It also seems entirely possible that the NSA would be able to find Bin Laden but not DPR. Al Qaeda has used stenography and unencrypted media to store sensitive files among other stupidly lax security methods, whereas there is some evidence that governmental agencies don't have good TOR exploits at the moment.
Bin Laden was hiding with the assistance of a state intelligence agency in their own country
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Any evidence that Bin Laden used TOR or related technologies to hide his location, and still got caught and killed?
I would think he didn't....but if he did, then it might be a safe assumption that DPR can (and will) get caught when the resources are avaliable...
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If Bin Laden used Tor he would have been killed much more quickly. I feel bad for the person in a remote Pakistani village who is connecting to Tor, I am pretty sure that would have been enough intelligence to warrant further investigation. From what I have heard, it sounds like Osama had a human courier who took USB dongles with messages on them from him, then sent the messages quickly from random access points, and also got replies and brought the messages back on USB dongle. It doesn't even sound like he was using encryption or steganography from the reports, but I find this hard to believe personally.
He was located because they tortured someone into giving up the name of his human courier and then they identified his couriers location and covertly followed him to the compound.
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Look at all the other sites that sold card details and human slaves, they get shut down in days.
Did any of these sites transact in Bitcoins? I can't help feeling that with the world economic situation the way it is, Bitcoin is their main concern, not website based international drug dealing.
I sincerely doubt it. Consider that, by design, there will never be more than 21 million bitcoins. Right now, bitcoins are worth about $6.46 U.S.
Some estimates of the number of coins in circulation are about 7.5 million to 8 million. Assuming the higher figure, at the current exchange rate, that amounts to on the order of about $50 million U.S. Frankly, that is just too small an amount for the powers that be to worry about. Frankly, compared with the estimated values of the regular, meat-space drug trade (estimated by some sources at $94 billion U.S.), the entire bitcoin economy is hardly more than a rounding error.
Guru
Quite so Guru, I think we're a very small slice of a very large pie. Policing to a large extent is about allocation of resources and there is currently nowhere near the level of public pressure on LEO to capture vendors on here as there is to apprehend shady characters hanging around school gates peddling dope to young children or to avenge the deaths of innocent people caught in the crossfire of drug wars.
Of course this is no reason not to be vigilant!
V.
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How do you wipe SR data off your computer (TOR cache, etc.) ? I thought tor didn't keep any logs?
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How do you wipe SR data off your computer (TOR cache, etc.) ? I thought tor didn't keep any logs?
In theory the Tor browser deletes your cookies and other browsing data when you close it. In the past however bugs have been discovered that can leave such data behind. Naturally it's also often possible to recover data that's been deleted so I'd suggest you run your Tor browser from an encrypted partition/USB stick to be on the safe side.
V.
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Km according to both obama and mccain, torture, did not extract the courier's name from ksm http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/john-mccain-to-bush-apologists-stop-lying-about-bin-laden-and-torture/2011/03/03/AF10AnzG_blog.html
torture is ineffective and oftentimes harmful because it provides false information, provides the opposition with an excuse to torture, and goes against inalienable human rights.
just fact checking :)
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Just thinking, as long as Silk Road doesn't get too much mass media attention, then is it really going to piss the voters off that much? And therefor cause the government agencies to try and shut it down. Sort of 'out of site, out of mind' so to speak.
It's not like we're your local drug dealers who make the area you live in look bad. Your average Jo would have no idea any of this was going on if it wasn't reported in any media. Maybe that's just wishful thinking?
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There is so much bullshit being said about this.
There are ZERO....Let me repeat...ZERO Sr cases out there.
Your biggest risk with SR is the exact same risk as IRL. Just be smart and you won't have any problems and you won't get ripped off.
Those are the facts.
Anyone saying any different is just full of shit.
:D
RxKing