Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: wanna-be on June 15, 2012, 10:04 pm
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kmf could easily find my IP here. Bridgeless and VPN-less Tor is a joke. PGP is so difficult for most users to operate that most would prefer to not. I haven't seen any youtube videos that show how to use them, and most people get lost because the userface isn't made for rookies.
Bitcoins aren't even slightly anonymous. All these sellers from TFM were outed by the feds simply buying some drugs with bitcoins and watching the bitcoin transactions through block explorer. A few tracked bitcoins wound up passing their way through a legitimate exchange like Mt Gox. Voila, the feds start tracing the transaction history back up the chain. It's actually less secure than old fashioned money laundering. I think they might have even used bitfog. Has anyone seen the evidence besides the grand jury indictments?
I guess this Limetless guy knows some wizardry with bitcoins, but unless you buy the bitcoins (insecurely) to pay him, you're outta luck, pal! Plus who's to say he isn't a LEO? If what he knows is beyond his client's understanding, his clients could be dupped into at some point, exposure. Just like on TFM. Who used bitcoins. Whether or not they used other payment methods.
And to top it all off, no one even has a secure method of exchanging bitcoins into USD. All the vendors have to either open a bank account or get cash in person or via mail. Is it just me or is cash in mail seriously the most sketchy thing ever?
And it's not to pick on anyone in particular. It's just that Lim always seems to have an answer. Even if it is laced with a touch of sarcasm. Peace be with you all.
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You clearly don't know what you're talking about and the fact that you wrote all of that nonsense makes me wonder what drug you're on. TFM got shutdown after years of investigation and this was BEFORE bitcoin was even established as a currency so they were taking payments via paypal, western union, etc. They were leaving paper trails left and right for the feds to keep piling evidence for their prosecution. Most people do know how to use PGP and if they don't then that's their fault for being lazy, it's seriously so easy to beef up your security but on top of all this you have to ask yourself whether LE really cares about the buyers rather than the vendors.
If a buyer buys btc using a MP from a vendor on SR and gets the btc sent directly to their account, how is LE able to even know that those btc belong to the buyer or even used to buy contraband? You're forgetting that SR has a built-in tumbler and it's a pretty good one, throw bitcoinfog in the mix and it's nearly impossible to know what btc belongs to who.
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Everyone on here except you and me is LE then? Since most vendors and many others are constantly being accused of being LE.. This board sometimes is like a anti drug campaign cause it seems drugs make you paranoid and stupid lol Just say no
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Is it just me or is cash in mail seriously the most sketchy thing ever?
This is the only way of obtaining Bitcoins safely short of mining for them (slow and costly) or selling goods and services (for which you would need a vendor account.
The Bitcoin block chain is secure in the sense of providing pseudonymous transactions - potential security issues occur when trying to purchase Bitcoins or cashing out i.e the entry and exit points to the block chain. These can be hugely mitigated through use of cash/goods in the mail.
If people were to rely exclusively on sending precious metals/cash in the post both to buy and sell Bitcoins I feel this would hugely increase everyone's safety - I admit I am a Bitcoin trader who sells BTC for cash but that doesn't make what I've said any less true :-)
V.
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I guess this Limetless guy knows some wizardry with bitcoins, but unless you buy the bitcoins (insecurely) to pay him, you're outta luck, pal! Plus who's to say he isn't a LEO? If what he knows is beyond his client's understanding, his clients could be dupped into at some point, exposure. Just like on TFM. Who used bitcoins. Whether or not they used other payment methods.
And to top it all off, no one even has a secure method of exchanging bitcoins into USD. All the vendors have to either open a bank account or get cash in person or via mail. Is it just me or is cash in mail seriously the most sketchy thing ever?
And it's not to pick on anyone in particular. It's just that Lim always seems to have an answer. Even if it is laced with a touch of sarcasm. Peace be with you all.
I am saying Lim isn't working for an LEO for starters! I work in the Finance Industry and I routinely meet and talk with Police from Financial Crime Units across the UK. Very few of them are even dimly aware of the Bitcoin and while they may be aware of some of the methods used by Lim to allow vendors to disguise their transactions in principle, no Police officer I have ever met has matched his level of cunning and ingenuity in so doing!
I have referred to him before as a 'Napoleon' of white collar crime ; something which he proved two days ago when I announced plans to open an offshore account in Belize to store some of my profits in selling Bitcoins and he warned me in advance that this was unwise. I consulted with one of my colleagues who told me that compliance requirements are much stricter in this jurisdiction than others and that Lim's advice to use a different offshore location was correct. Surely if he'd been working for some sinister government organisation he'd simply have allowed me enough rope to hang myself?
You say he has an answer for everything ; to put it another way he's willing to express his opinion and to help people with questions rather than selfishly guard knowledge of the kind you claim e.g using PGP, obtaining Bitcoins safely. On the basis any more experienced user who's willing to help newcomers to the Silk Road is suspect, you see the dilemma?
V.
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Yea I get your point, V. And when I mentioned cash in mail, I was talking about receiving cash. Even if someone might send drugs to someone's house out of malice, I cant see that being the case with cold hard cash. So there is little in the way of legal defense when he gets that $3k as part of a controlled delivery.
So I have a friend who wants to start vending. Obviously he wants cash. Unless you can pay normal bills with btc somehow?
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Yea I get your point, V. And when I mentioned cash in mail, I was talking about receiving cash. Even if someone might send drugs to someone's house out of malice, I cant see that being the case with cold hard cash. So there is little in the way of legal defense when he gets that $3k as part of a controlled delivery.
So I have a friend who wants to start vending. Obviously he wants cash. Unless you can pay normal bills with btc somehow?
It's a dilemma and no mistake - and indeed it's why people like Lim are so valuable to the community in helping vendors transform their assets into something more tangible.
In my own case as you know my business regularly receives cash in the mail however this is not illegal in and of itself. While I agree receiving large amounts of cash by post is suspicious and could lead to further investigation I doubt you'd persuade a Magistrate or Judge to sign a search warrant purely on this basis.
Moreover there's no requirement for a vendor to receive the cash/precious metals they buy just at their home address. A PO Box or a friend's address is fine too.
V.
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Errrrrm hello....surely if you take a wander over to my Vendor account you'll see that everything I sell is class A/B in the U.K. I've done 131 confirmed transactions in 3 months with another 50+ in the loop right now. How stupid are are you to think U.K LE could do that shit and be sanctioned to sell drugs off-the-cuff just to make arrests. Jesus go out, buy a fucking brain, wire it up and then use it correctly. I hope you realise that over here in the U.K LE are much more restricted than in the U.S on things like reverse stings. That shit don't fly here my friend, actually that shit does fly...it flies straight out of court and over the magic rainbow and into No-Convictionland.
Also DICK'ED, don't start speculating on my ML credentials when you clearly know jack-shit-all about the subject itself. My system is rock-solid and I'm sorry if this is arrogant but it's the best damn system that you will find and I seriously doubt any Vendor is using a better one (please, if you think you are hit me up so we can compare notes and I'll publicly give you kudos for outdoing me, I'm not proud enough to not give credit where credit is due). My methods are in fact so solid you could use them to build a mother-fucking nuclear bunker out of it. If you want to know why I don't publicly disclose my methods that's because you would be a dumb fuck to share how you launder money on a publicly viewable forum which is watched by the Alphabet Mafia and yeah, I regard anyone that even talks about the poor-mans methods of cashing BTC in that category as well and I have warned people against discussing it in forums before. Second reason is obvious, I wouldn't get paid.
Also, when I work with a client I generally encourage them to independently fact-check the information I give them. Doing this means I keep my information up-to-date and it allows them to see for themselves my method is solid before they go any further.
And yeah, I generally have an answer if people ask me or I jump in on a subject I have knowledge about. That's because I'm smarter than the average bear and I've been around the block. Sorry for being generally good at what I do and sharing the wealth, clearly this was not the way forward. Now that you have shown me how wrong I was for aiming high I best embark on a career of knitting jumpers for llamas of which I have no knowledge at all.
Also your facts are pretty bent out of shape on TFM, they got nicked because of things like Paypal, Western Uniom and a general standard of retardation when it comes to things like security and other things.
Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to eat my pizza, watch my film, comment on some more threads and probably watch some porn later on in the evening as a bed time treat. That is if you are done trolling me of course? If you have more to say please be quick because I will be quite pissed if my pizza gets cold. It's my weekly treat.
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All these sellers from TFM were outed by the feds simply buying some drugs with bitcoins and watching the bitcoin transactions through block explorer. A few tracked bitcoins wound up passing their way through a legitimate exchange like Mt Gox. Voila, the feds start tracing the transaction history back up the chain. It's actually less secure than old fashioned money laundering. I think they might have even used bitfog.
One payment method TFM did NOT accept was Bitcoin. Only a couple of the vendors there accepted Bitcoins on other boards, but they weren't busted for the other boards. They were busted for TFM, and TFM did NOT accept Bitcoins. They were outed by the feds for using Hushmail. Do NOT use Hushmail people!
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All these sellers from TFM were outed by the feds simply buying some drugs with bitcoins and watching the bitcoin transactions through block explorer.
And you know this from...?
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Great post Sarge, we still meeting Inspector Morse at 1?
Rofl you just made my evening.
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Prepare the tin foil hats...
http://tinyurl.com/cq862wo
8)
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Prepare the tin foil hats...
http://tinyurl.com/cq862wo
8)
I want that cat. Nuff said.
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Hey Lim, i'm not in a position yet to make use of your service, but out of curiosity, what kind of losses would be involved in the laundering process? Say, for every grand's worth of bitcoins, what would be the cash amount available at the end?
I appreciate if you don't want to give details, even general stuff like this. I'm just asking out of idle curiosity for now.
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Hey Lim, i'm not in a position yet to make use of your service, but out of curiosity, what kind of losses would be involved in the laundering process? Say, for every grand's worth of bitcoins, what would be the cash amount available at the end?
I appreciate if you don't want to give details, even general stuff like this. I'm just asking out of idle curiosity for now.
Apart from the fee I charge for my service + the set up costs and the standard fees at the exchanges and those incurred by using Fog none at all. That is the beauty of my system. :)
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Hey Lim, i'm not in a position yet to make use of your service, but out of curiosity, what kind of losses would be involved in the laundering process? Say, for every grand's worth of bitcoins, what would be the cash amount available at the end?
I appreciate if you don't want to give details, even general stuff like this. I'm just asking out of idle curiosity for now.
Apart from the fee I charge for my service + the set up costs and the standard fees at the exchanges and those incurred by using Fog none at all. That is the beauty of my system. :)
The magic word : consultancy :-) Speaking of which Lim I will send you a message tomorrow so we can compare notes on offshore accounts if that's OK, I'm just looking for general information as my bank doesn't have branches in these jurisdictions but I'll happily cross your palm with proverbial silver if we go into any level of detail.
V.
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No worries Vlad, just PM me whenever. If you want to secure it my key is on my page, just sent me a message with your key under it for me. From the thread I read I have pretty much got a good idea of the direction you should be going anyway but I need ya to flesh it out a bit so I can be sure.
And yeah, I will tweak your thing as a freebie but if we get in deep we can chat prices then. :)
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If KMF can find my IP, then I would encourage him to post it here.
If he does that then I will pay him 100 coins.
I can probably find the IP address of SR, and maybe a tiny fraction of user IP addresses, but I can not select a specific target and have a high probability of being able to deanonymize them in a realistic amount of time. It would also cost me more than 100 bitcoins, but not an unrealistic amount.
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I wish there were a team of KMFs whose 9to5 was to try to de-anonymize us in the intersection of Tor, SR, and GPG....
And then to make patches when they are successful...
I think it would be worth the expense, DPR...
Well they've had 14 months now... :-)
V.
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I wish there were a team of KMFs whose 9to5 was to try to de-anonymize us in the intersection of Tor, SR, and GPG....
And then to make patches when they are successful...
I think it would be worth the expense, DPR...
Well they've had 14 months now... :-)
V.
I don't have the extra two thousand dollars or few extra hundred hours of time required to try and trace hidden services for a hobby. Clients would be much harder for me because even after the hidden service is identified I couldn't put it under passive surveillance, and the attack that would allow me to force it to use my node as entry guard would potentially be quite expensive to keep up over time, depending on the luck of the draw (ie: if I only need to DOS one set of entry guards before it selects my node as entry, I can maintain possession of one of its entry guards for about one or two months, but if I need to DOS twenty sets it will be less likely). So there is a significant probability that I can trace it all the way to its IP address, I can certainly trace it to each of its entry guards though. If I got lucky I could use a timing attack to deanonymize all of the clients that use my secondary node as entry while I own SR entry guard, failing that I could try website fingerprinting attacks with markov models from an entry guard that would potentially allow me to correctly guess some peoples IP addresses if they used my entry guard to connect to SR. None of these things would be trivial for me to do and I simply do not have the motivation or the funding for it, plus I am busy working on other things.
I am 100% positive that I can give you three IP addresses that are one hop away from SR though, this would be much easier too but would still require me to have a server to dedicate to it, preferably two.
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8) **Tips hat to Lim**
:-\ **disappointed look to kmf***
Am I gonna have to shorten the legs on this pedastal, kmf?
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I am laughing at the OP. sad thing is you know some people will read this thread and think that Bitcoins/Tor are more insecure than they had thought, even after they have researched the risks.
And that is exactly what wanna-be (who I'm assuming is LE) is trying to accomplish.
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kmf could easily find my IP here. Bridgeless and VPN-less Tor is a joke. PGP is so difficult for most users to operate that most would prefer to not. I haven't seen any youtube videos that show how to use them, and most people get lost because the userface isn't made for rookies.
Bitcoins aren't even slightly anonymous. All these sellers from TFM were outed by the feds simply buying some drugs with bitcoins and watching the bitcoin transactions through block explorer. A few tracked bitcoins wound up passing their way through a legitimate exchange like Mt Gox. Voila, the feds start tracing the transaction history back up the chain. It's actually less secure than old fashioned money laundering. I think they might have even used bitfog. Has anyone seen the evidence besides the grand jury indictments?
I guess this Limetless guy knows some wizardry with bitcoins, but unless you buy the bitcoins (insecurely) to pay him, you're outta luck, pal! Plus who's to say he isn't a LEO? If what he knows is beyond his client's understanding, his clients could be dupped into at some point, exposure. Just like on TFM. Who used bitcoins. Whether or not they used other payment methods.
And to top it all off, no one even has a secure method of exchanging bitcoins into USD. All the vendors have to either open a bank account or get cash in person or via mail. Is it just me or is cash in mail seriously the most sketchy thing ever?
And it's not to pick on anyone in particular. It's just that Lim always seems to have an answer. Even if it is laced with a touch of sarcasm. Peace be with you all.
Care to back up your accusations with some solid references to reputable sources? Namely:
* Tor IP can easily be traced to client
* Bitcoin transactions can easily be traced to client
* PGP is impossible to operate
I'm in tech industry and while I haven't contributed to tor, bitcoin, or pgp, I'm pretty familiar with the way they work. These tools are used by millions worldwide to stay anonymous, avoid government surveillance and firewalls, and encrypt communication. They're used by regular people, hackers, and corporations alike.
The ONLY way your argument might be valid is when a person uses one ore more of these in an ignorant way. But if they don't care to learn how to use them properly to protect their privacy, they don't deserve any privacy - just like an accident on the a well-maintained road is either the fault of one driver or the other - not road's or car's fault.
No offense, but you're either stupid or a troll for posting such baseless pile of paranoid shit and wasting everyone's time on this forum.
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bitcoin is only as anonymous as the method you use to cash in and unless you mix your funds it would be trivial to deanonymize you. and try to explain public key cryptography to joe q citizen and see what kind of reactions you get. :P
By Joe Q I'm assuming you mean the average person?
I've noticed in my time here that the above-average folk tend to have success as buyers and vendors, where the average and below tend to get frustrated and lose their shit, because a lot of security measures, say PGP for example, are just way beyond comprehension. This IS a good thing. ;D ;) It's probably better if folks who can't understand PGP stay away!
The higher the percentage of brains over pretend brains on SR, the longer and better SR will prosper!
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Everyone on here except you and me is LE then? Since most vendors and many others are constantly being accused of being LE.. This board sometimes is like a anti drug campaign cause it seems drugs make you paranoid and stupid lol Just say no
I have often thought that what if this was a huge DEA fake web site, everyone on here was LEO, as with the dealers, etc. but then I got some illegal drugs. Stopped giving a fuck.
i can die a happy man now. :)
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Everyone on here except you and me is LE then? Since most vendors and many others are constantly being accused of being LE.. This board sometimes is like a anti drug campaign cause it seems drugs make you paranoid and stupid lol Just say no
I have often thought that what if this was a huge DEA fake web site, everyone on here was LEO, as with the dealers, etc. but then I got some illegal drugs. Stopped giving a fuck.
i can die a happy man now. :)
So you've had Stage 1 Silk Road paranoia!
Stage 2 is wondering whether the DEA allows Silk Road to keep the population in control, because it's too good to be true and too obvious for them not to be doing something...
Stage 3 is totally stop giving a fuck!
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kmf could easily find my IP here. Bridgeless and VPN-less Tor is a joke. PGP is so difficult for most users to operate that most would prefer to not. I haven't seen any youtube videos that show how to use them, and most people get lost because the userface isn't made for rookies.
Bitcoins aren't even slightly anonymous. All these sellers from TFM were outed by the feds simply buying some drugs with bitcoins and watching the bitcoin transactions through block explorer. A few tracked bitcoins wound up passing their way through a legitimate exchange like Mt Gox. Voila, the feds start tracing the transaction history back up the chain. It's actually less secure than old fashioned money laundering. I think they might have even used bitfog. Has anyone seen the evidence besides the grand jury indictments?
I guess this Limetless guy knows some wizardry with bitcoins, but unless you buy the bitcoins (insecurely) to pay him, you're outta luck, pal! Plus who's to say he isn't a LEO? If what he knows is beyond his client's understanding, his clients could be dupped into at some point, exposure. Just like on TFM. Who used bitcoins. Whether or not they used other payment methods.
And to top it all off, no one even has a secure method of exchanging bitcoins into USD. All the vendors have to either open a bank account or get cash in person or via mail. Is it just me or is cash in mail seriously the most sketchy thing ever?
And it's not to pick on anyone in particular. It's just that Lim always seems to have an answer. Even if it is laced with a touch of sarcasm. Peace be with you all.
Please don't type shit and act like you've been around. For writing this CRAP and pumping up the paranoia meteor you totally deserve to be shit on. Thanks for shitting up the forums with more paranoid BS.
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Please don't type shit and act like you've been around. For writing this CRAP and pumping up the paranoia meteor you totally deserve to be shit on. Thanks for shitting up the forums with more paranoid BS.
Exactly. So much FUD, I wish people would chill.
kmf couldn't "easily find any IP here"...
Perhaps he could make a website and entice you to visit it, maybe even making a new forum account and linking to a pic of amazing new drugs which you would click on, then do a java or javacript driveby on your browser to find your souce IP, but that's not kmf doing anything, it's your own stupidity for clicking on an external link...
Remember common sense 2012 is infinitely better than Norton 2012... ;)
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My point is that no one posts a foolproof way to go BTC-to-USD. And after volumes of "tor isn't secure," how am I paranoid?? Every expert says that Tor is only one cog in the traffic analysis incognito wheel.
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My point is that no one posts a foolproof way to go BTC-to-USD. And after volumes of "tor isn't secure," how am I paranoid?? Every expert says that Tor is only one cog in the traffic analysis incognito wheel.
Because people everyday, such as limitless and EVERY OTHER VENDOR ON SR, are going BTC to USD no problem. Sure they have to hide their transactions and some other things but they are getting their cash out reliably.
Yes, neither of these things are perfect because NOTHING IS. EVERY SYSTEM IS VULNERABLE TO SOMETHING. Its up to YOU to decide if you want to take the risk.
Now stop trying to drum up fear and let me get back to this bowl.