Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: fryerbacon on June 13, 2012, 05:22 pm
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I swear, half of the Onionland is CP. Having visited a few CP message boards, these people are sick fucks and they try to rationalize their "activity" in many different ways. Unfortunately, we will have to co-exist with them.
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It's a festering blister and undesired effect of TOR being anonymous. I'd like to think that law enforcement is focusing more on cracking down on those sites than spending time on SR. I do take small comforts that groups choose to continually DDOS them though.
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I actually rarely wander round the onion now because I don't wana run into that shit. Just use TOR for SR work and that's it.
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Some of them don't even try to hide their monstrosity... reading things like "yeah fuck that 4 year olds ass up and rip her apart"
It's fucking unconscionable. People like that just need to be put to death.
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I swear, half of the Onionland is CP. Having visited a few CP message boards, these people are sick fucks and they try to rationalize their "activity" in many different ways. Unfortunately, we will have to co-exist with them.
We have to co-exist in one way or another with everyone on the planet. I do wonder who is providing these idiots with .onion domain addresses though. Tor makes it hard to DDOS their sites too, due to it's nature it almost protects them.
The golden rule of Tor should be that it is to be used to perform subverted activities that only affect oneself, and not others, such as children.
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It's mostly Russian organised crime Oscar.
And yeah Kap it'd be good if we could just line them up against them all. I'd never get fucking bored putting one through their skulls.
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I actually rarely wander round the onion now because I don't wana run into that shit. Just use TOR for SR work and that's it.
Yup me too. SR, SR Forums, and TorMail is it for me. I just hate that SR gets lumped with CP in every news article (except one which claimed we took a moral high ground, that was nice of them).
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I actually rarely wander round the onion now because I don't wana run into that shit. Just use TOR for SR work and that's it.
Yup me too. SR, SR Forums, and TorMail is it for me. I just hate that SR gets lumped with CP in every news article (except one which claimed we took a moral high ground, that was nice of them).
Until my Land Rover is mentioned, no article will be valid.
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I actually rarely wander round the onion now because I don't wana run into that shit. Just use TOR for SR work and that's it.
Yup me too. SR, SR Forums, and TorMail is it for me. I just hate that SR gets lumped with CP in every news article (except one which claimed we took a moral high ground, that was nice of them).
Until my Land Rover is mentioned, no article will be valid.
It's bound to be eventually (may already have been).. it's finding the article that'll be the jew
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I came across my first CP site by accident yesterday while exploring the Onion. Goddamn those people are scary. I think the only way, and it has worked in the past, is for LE to try and track victims from tracing scant evidence in images. Unlike most RL criminals these kiddie fiddlers usually seem to be intelligent clever people, so they get away with it. And f*ck co-existing with them I want t see them burnt, preferably alive. I have children.
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I actually rarely wander round the onion now because I don't wana run into that shit. Just use TOR for SR work and that's it.
Yup me too. SR, SR Forums, and TorMail is it for me. I just hate that SR gets lumped with CP in every news article (except one which claimed we took a moral high ground, that was nice of them).
Until my Land Rover is mentioned, no article will be valid.
It's bound to be eventually (may already have been).. it's finding the article that'll be the jew
Yeah true. The day it is I'll be well happy. :D
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The golden rule of Tor should be that it is to be used to perform subverted activities that only affect oneself, and not others, such as children.
The problem with golden things is that they're too often composed of a thin layer of gold on the surface with the innards being completely bunk.
It's impossible to perform subverted activities that only affect oneself. Who says there are no minors buying your drugs off SR? Suffering can be inflicted in various ways, not just sexual. We all find ways to rationalize the decisions we make. Some people in the public would like to put something through OUR skulls, just like we would to the CP crowd. So what's wrong, and what's right?
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Some of them don't even try to hide their monstrosity... reading things like "yeah fuck that 4 year olds ass up and rip her apart"
It's fucking unconscionable. People like that just need to be put to death.
Yes I've seen some of the image boards back when I used I2P - scary stuff!
The ones who nail their colours to the mast so to speak don't sicken me nearly as much as the ones who say they're all about "enabling" children to choose a sexual relationship - of course it's normal for a child to have sexual thoughts and feelings and in time (I say in time...!) they will develop a sexual identity of their own without some overweight pervert molesting them pretending that he's doing them a favour!
If you ever want a laugh watch the clips from "To Catch a Predator" on Dateline NBC where the TV network set up special houses and hired actors to pretend to be underage girls and boys. When perverts contacted them online they gave them the address and then Chris Hanson would show up and make them squirm... in later seasons they were actually arrested as under US law speaking to someone who they believed to be a minor in a sexual way online is apparently a crime (not the same in Europe!).
I do enjoy how the old pervs when forced into a corner will inevitably turn to God, it's brilliant!
"..Well you may not believe me Chris my but Jesus is my Saviour."...
Yeah right!
V.
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I swear, half of the Onionland is CP. Having visited a few CP message boards, these people are sick fucks and they try to rationalize their "activity" in many different ways. Unfortunately, we will have to co-exist with them.
We have to co-exist in one way or another with everyone on the planet. I do wonder who is providing these idiots with .onion domain addresses though. Tor makes it hard to DDOS their sites too, due to it's nature it almost protects them.
The golden rule of Tor should be that it is to be used to perform subverted activities that only affect oneself, and not others, such as children.
They were able to DDOS them because alot of them used a clearweb hosting service and so they just DDOS'd the host taking down all the websites it was hosting, the hosting service was able to use clearweb on the grounds that because they are oinon domains nobody can know where they are and nobody can tell which laws apply therefore it is not there responiblity to montior the content on the websites they host. its such a shame to see something like tor where people can express any opinon without fear or police has to be ruined by people like that
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Pisses me off. Anyone remember the The Sun's article on the darkweb? They put us in the same headline as people hosting CP. PISSED me off... we're a minor problem compared to those sick fucks who get off on CP.
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Pisses me off. Anyone remember the The Sun's article on the darkweb? They put us in the same headline as people hosting CP. PISSED me off... we're a minor problem compared to those sick fucks who get off on CP.
It's regrettable but I think sickos sharing CP is a l price we pay to allow total freedom of expression online. Yes some people abuse it but then they did that before the internet ever existed! If it comes down to it I'd rather have them in their darkened bedrooms beating their meat watching CP on the darknet than trying to snatch some kid off the streets in any case.
V.
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You have a good point there. It does however sicken me to think there's people out there getting of on CP. This has always been the case though, I guess the darkweb just enabled them to host CP more securely.
My biggest concern is whether the build up of CP on the darkweb is going to draw more attention to onionland. I'd hate for tor to be shut down and for us to lose out over these sickos. We're buying drugs to put in to our OWN bodies on here. And we're all intelligent people, we know what doses to take and what is a safe/dangerous combo. SR is harm reduction IMO.
But with these CP sites people are exposing other peoples children and everything. We control what we put in to our bodies, but these poor helpless children have no idea what's going on.
But as you said, even before the internet existed this was happening. I still think there should be more articles about CP than drugs. All we ever hear about is the 'War on drugs', every time I put the radio on there's a drug related story. Even a teen dieing of an overdose or a gang being jailed for trafficking drugs.
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You have a good point there. It does however sicken me to think there's people out there getting of on CP. This has always been the case though, I guess the darkweb just enabled them to host CP more securely.
My biggest concern is whether the build up of CP on the darkweb is going to draw more attention to onionland. I'd hate for tor to be shut down and for us to lose out over these sickos. We're buying drugs to put in to our OWN bodies on here. And we're all intelligent people, we know what doses to take and what is a safe/dangerous combo. SR is harm reduction IMO.
But with these CP sites people are exposing other peoples children and everything. We control what we put in to our bodies, but these poor helpless children have no idea what's going on.
But as you said, even before the internet existed this was happening. I still think there should be more articles about CP than drugs. All we ever hear about is the 'War on drugs', every time I put the radio on there's a drug related story. Even a teen dieing of an overdose or a gang being jailed for trafficking drugs.
You're referring to the possibility that Tor traffic might be blocked altogether? It's a possibility but I don't think they're holding off for the sake of a few golden hearted drug-dealers! Of course in countries like China this happens which is why it's very important to run bridges where possible.
Let's hope not everyone judges us for the actions of a few pedos!
V.
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Man I just discovered a hidden wiki full of crazy shit. Dead animal fuckers, penis mutilation, hitmen for hire, etc. The CP sites are pretty fucked up, I saw one with a pedobear logo. That's just plain fucking creepy.
Now I'm no expert, but there seems to be child pornography and women of close to legal age, "jailbait". The CP shit is just incomprehensible. There was a listing for an incest sort of child porn site and I would literally bash some sick bastard's head in with a hammer if I knew he was an incest CHOMO.
The jailbait didn't seem all that bad, but still it's pretty fucked up in a creepy Dad wanting to fuck his daughter's friend sort of way. Some US states have different ages of consent, so in some states one could legally fuck a 14-17 year old.
There's some dark shit on Tor.
*I don't like any sort of CP and was not advocating jailbait, just an opinion*
This is the exact reason I stick to SR and SR forums on Tor. I have no interest in the Hidden Wiki, BMR or any other onion sites. SR is the best onion set ever created. In fact, no, the best SITE ever created.
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Who wants to fuck dead animals and watch little kids take shits? What kind of weird fuckers get off on shit like that man? law enforcement should be focusing on that kind of sick stuff, instead of the farmer's market and silk road. The hidden wiki has damaged my faith in humanity.
To be fair TFM deserved it because they were just thick. I do agree with ya though, they want to put the real degenerates in prison that ruin lives, not people who just make alternative choices.
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I think some of the stuff on the Hidden Wiki is blagged. I once saw a link to 'Human experiments' on there. Sure, in the world we live in this stuff could indeed happen... But I reckon some things on the Hidden Wiki are there to scare people. Looked at it once, then lost interest.
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Who wants to fuck dead animals and watch little kids take shits? What kind of weird fuckers get off on shit like that man? law enforcement should be focusing on that kind of sick stuff, instead of the farmer's market and silk road. The hidden wiki has damaged my faith in humanity.
To be fair TFM deserved it because they were just thick. I do agree with ya though, they want to put the real degenerates in prison that ruin lives, not people who just make alternative choices.
If you think about it from a moral perspective the distinction is quite easy to make. We enable adults to consciously engage in a largely harmless activity in private - it's a world apart from behaviour which actively harms innocent children.
Naturally viewing such videos doesn't do any extra harm to that child but as long as people think there's a demand for such material they're going to keep on uploading it, which encourages people to keep hurting kids ; the best we can do as Sollemnis says is vote with our feet and choose not to visit the Hidden Wiki.
V.
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Who wants to fuck dead animals and watch little kids take shits? What kind of weird fuckers get off on shit like that man? law enforcement should be focusing on that kind of sick stuff, instead of the farmer's market and silk road. The hidden wiki has damaged my faith in humanity.
To be fair TFM deserved it because they were just thick. I do agree with ya though, they want to put the real degenerates in prison that ruin lives, not people who just make alternative choices.
If you think about it from a moral perspective the distinction is quite easy to make. We enable adults to consciously engage in a largely harmless activity in private - it's a world apart from behaviour which actively harms innocent children.
Naturally viewing such videos doesn't do any extra harm to that child but as long as people think there's a demand for such material they're going to keep on uploading it, which encourages people to keep hurting kids ; the best we can do as Sollemnis says is vote with our feet and choose not to visit the Hidden Wiki.
V.
Yeah exactly. On a sort of semi-related note it really pisses me off when people bring things that actively hurt others and try and sell/discuss them on here. Example of this being that TWAT that decided it was a good idea to kidnap someone for BTC. I dunno if you saw the post I put just before I locked the thread Vlad but I blasted that cunt.
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Who wants to fuck dead animals and watch little kids take shits? What kind of weird fuckers get off on shit like that man? law enforcement should be focusing on that kind of sick stuff, instead of the farmer's market and silk road. The hidden wiki has damaged my faith in humanity.
To be fair TFM deserved it because they were just thick. I do agree with ya though, they want to put the real degenerates in prison that ruin lives, not people who just make alternative choices.
If you think about it from a moral perspective the distinction is quite easy to make. We enable adults to consciously engage in a largely harmless activity in private - it's a world apart from behaviour which actively harms innocent children.
Naturally viewing such videos doesn't do any extra harm to that child but as long as people think there's a demand for such material they're going to keep on uploading it, which encourages people to keep hurting kids ; the best we can do as Sollemnis says is vote with our feet and choose not to visit the Hidden Wiki.
V.
Yeah exactly. On a sort of semi-related note it really pisses me off when people bring things that actively hurt others and try and sell/discuss them on here. Example of this being that TWAT that decided it was a good idea to kidnap someone for BTC. I dunno if you saw the post I put just before I locked the thread Vlad but I blasted that cunt.
Thanks Lim,
Yes I did indeed see you blast that cunt as you colourfully put it, and very well deserved too!
The question in itself was a legitimate one as I think it's important to talk about the limitations of the Bitcoin network, even if only to prevent scaremongers from trying to say that cryptocurrencies are the province of kidnappers and Terrorists.
I have about 4 years experience "cooking the books" now and I know you have many more and I cannot think of any way an individual could both hide a million dollars in the block chain and withdraw any meaningful amount... also since a hostage exchange is a one time thing there's no real way a victim's family are going to pay in installments!
Frankly I think if the poster tries something like this laundering the ransom money would be the least of his worries anyway! :-)
V.
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See, we have freedom. OUR bodies are using these drugs. No one else is harmed. It's MY money I use to buy my drugs. CP is at the expense of innocent children. LE who look through these forums should realise we're all safe, friendly and a tight community.
No one here courses any problems, even Mister Dank just makes me laugh, when Lim rips him to shreds, it honestly makes my day! Nothing better then seeing Lim at his best.
Great community, I love everybody here... I help people out where I can, and so do others... vlad1m1r even offers people a safer way to get coins. Lims offering pre-ban Drone which has given me a hard on. No one here is getting hurt, we are no problem what so ever.
Dear LE, please stop harassing us and get your firearms out and pop every pedo in the head. We are a great community and all the drugs here are clean, if they're aren't, we are quickly informed about this. WE are the new generation. We aren't the problem, the pedo's are. So please get off here and leave us to it.
Damn, I'm in a good mood... but this community has given me so much that I had to speak from my heart then.
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Who wants to fuck dead animals and watch little kids take shits? What kind of weird fuckers get off on shit like that man? law enforcement should be focusing on that kind of sick stuff, instead of the farmer's market and silk road. The hidden wiki has damaged my faith in humanity.
To be fair TFM deserved it because they were just thick. I do agree with ya though, they want to put the real degenerates in prison that ruin lives, not people who just make alternative choices.
If you think about it from a moral perspective the distinction is quite easy to make. We enable adults to consciously engage in a largely harmless activity in private - it's a world apart from behaviour which actively harms innocent children.
Naturally viewing such videos doesn't do any extra harm to that child but as long as people think there's a demand for such material they're going to keep on uploading it, which encourages people to keep hurting kids ; the best we can do as Sollemnis says is vote with our feet and choose not to visit the Hidden Wiki.
V.
Yeah exactly. On a sort of semi-related note it really pisses me off when people bring things that actively hurt others and try and sell/discuss them on here. Example of this being that TWAT that decided it was a good idea to kidnap someone for BTC. I dunno if you saw the post I put just before I locked the thread Vlad but I blasted that cunt.
Thanks Lim,
Yes I did indeed see you blast that cunt as you colourfully put it, and very well deserved too!
The question in itself was a legitimate one as I think it's important to talk about the limitations of the Bitcoin network, even if only to prevent scaremongers from trying to say that cryptocurrencies are the province of kidnappers and Terrorists.
I have about 4 years experience "cooking the books" now and I know you have many more and I cannot think of any way an individual could both hide a million dollars in the block chain and withdraw any meaningful amount... also since a hostage exchange is a one time thing there's no real way a victim's family are going to pay in installments!
Frankly I think if the poster tries something like this laundering the ransom money would be the least of his worries anyway! :-)
V.
Interesting you say that because I think the BTC network is actually far more diverse than people really appreciate and I think this will actually only be realised when it comes to the time when more BTC will have to be put in circulation.
Also coincidentally for a bit of fun I did a basic structure for £1M of BTC and then developed it into something calculated to have around a 90% chance of succeeding and it would force the prices up of the BTC by 10-20p (most of the models I did hit 14.5p increase). Was quite an interesting challenge. :)
That's cool, I don't have many more years on you than that to be fair, I think (from what is all based on guesses) I have worked with a more diverse range of methods than yourself and dealt with larger sums.
For example can you do stuff like offshore property double-sells, commodity flips, high-end value fraud and things like that? Also do you work with money that has already been placed or have you set up structures that can place funds without suspicion?
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Who wants to fuck dead animals and watch little kids take shits? What kind of weird fuckers get off on shit like that man? law enforcement should be focusing on that kind of sick stuff, instead of the farmer's market and silk road. The hidden wiki has damaged my faith in humanity.
To be fair TFM deserved it because they were just thick. I do agree with ya though, they want to put the real degenerates in prison that ruin lives, not people who just make alternative choices.
If you think about it from a moral perspective the distinction is quite easy to make. We enable adults to consciously engage in a largely harmless activity in private - it's a world apart from behaviour which actively harms innocent children.
Naturally viewing such videos doesn't do any extra harm to that child but as long as people think there's a demand for such material they're going to keep on uploading it, which encourages people to keep hurting kids ; the best we can do as Sollemnis says is vote with our feet and choose not to visit the Hidden Wiki.
V.
Yeah exactly. On a sort of semi-related note it really pisses me off when people bring things that actively hurt others and try and sell/discuss them on here. Example of this being that TWAT that decided it was a good idea to kidnap someone for BTC. I dunno if you saw the post I put just before I locked the thread Vlad but I blasted that cunt.
Thanks Lim,
Yes I did indeed see you blast that cunt as you colourfully put it, and very well deserved too!
The question in itself was a legitimate one as I think it's important to talk about the limitations of the Bitcoin network, even if only to prevent scaremongers from trying to say that cryptocurrencies are the province of kidnappers and Terrorists.
I have about 4 years experience "cooking the books" now and I know you have many more and I cannot think of any way an individual could both hide a million dollars in the block chain and withdraw any meaningful amount... also since a hostage exchange is a one time thing there's no real way a victim's family are going to pay in installments!
Frankly I think if the poster tries something like this laundering the ransom money would be the least of his worries anyway! :-)
V.
Interesting you say that because I think the BTC network is actually far more diverse than people really appreciate and I think this will actually only be realised when it comes to the time when more BTC will have to be put in circulation.
Also coincidentally for a bit of fun I did a basic structure for £1M of BTC and then developed it into something calculated to have around a 90% chance of succeeding and it would force the prices up of the BTC by 10-20p (most of the models I did hit 14.5p increase). Was quite an interesting challenge. :)
That's cool, I don't have many more years on you than that to be fair, I think (from what is all based on guesses) I have worked with a more diverse range of methods than yourself and dealt with larger sums.
For example can you do stuff like offshore property double-sells, commodity flips, high-end value fraud and things like that? Also do you work with money that has already been placed or have you set up structures that can place funds without suspicion?
Thanks Lim,
I was actually reading on The Bitcoin Trader that this is a potential avenue of attack by LE i.e using vast sums to force down the price of the Bitcoin only to cause it to shoot up again but apparently the effect of this is becoming more negligible as time goes on. As memory serves there's an upper limit of 20 Million Bitcoins which are being created at a steady rate so any ripples would have to be rather shallow in the nature of things!
I'm familiar with commodity flips but I simply haven't had the need to trade in property and securities to the extent you do as I only need to conceal my Bitcoin purchases for the sake of my clients. Now of course things are looking up and I have registered a small "financial services" in the BVI, Memorandum and Articles are in the post as we speak(!) there's no requirement for accounts in the other offshore jurisdictions I've found to be opened by a company incorporated in that territory so I might quietly shelve plans for the account in Belize ; perhaps we should discuss more specifics over PM?
I don't want to sound overly paranoid but at the very least your savvy is worth the consultation fees! :-)
V.
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If you ever want a laugh watch the clips from "To Catch a Predator" on Dateline NBC where the TV network set up special houses and hired actors to pretend to be underage girls and boys. When perverts contacted them online they gave them the address and then Chris Hanson would show up and make them squirm... in later seasons they were actually arrested as under US law speaking to someone who they believed to be a minor in a sexual way online is apparently a crime (not the same in Europe!).
I do enjoy how the old pervs when forced into a corner will inevitably turn to God, it's brilliant!
"..Well you may not believe me Chris my but Jesus is my Saviour."...
Yeah right!
V.
Watching "To catch a predator" used to be one of my favorite hobbies! Seriously, there are some fucked up people out there.
As far as Onionland, just SR/forums/tormail for me. Looked through the tor directory once....a lot of sick shit listed on there
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Who wants to fuck dead animals and watch little kids take shits? What kind of weird fuckers get off on shit like that man? law enforcement should be focusing on that kind of sick stuff, instead of the farmer's market and silk road. The hidden wiki has damaged my faith in humanity.
To be fair TFM deserved it because they were just thick. I do agree with ya though, they want to put the real degenerates in prison that ruin lives, not people who just make alternative choices.
If you think about it from a moral perspective the distinction is quite easy to make. We enable adults to consciously engage in a largely harmless activity in private - it's a world apart from behaviour which actively harms innocent children.
Naturally viewing such videos doesn't do any extra harm to that child but as long as people think there's a demand for such material they're going to keep on uploading it, which encourages people to keep hurting kids ; the best we can do as Sollemnis says is vote with our feet and choose not to visit the Hidden Wiki.
V.
Yeah exactly. On a sort of semi-related note it really pisses me off when people bring things that actively hurt others and try and sell/discuss them on here. Example of this being that TWAT that decided it was a good idea to kidnap someone for BTC. I dunno if you saw the post I put just before I locked the thread Vlad but I blasted that cunt.
Thanks Lim,
Yes I did indeed see you blast that cunt as you colourfully put it, and very well deserved too!
The question in itself was a legitimate one as I think it's important to talk about the limitations of the Bitcoin network, even if only to prevent scaremongers from trying to say that cryptocurrencies are the province of kidnappers and Terrorists.
I have about 4 years experience "cooking the books" now and I know you have many more and I cannot think of any way an individual could both hide a million dollars in the block chain and withdraw any meaningful amount... also since a hostage exchange is a one time thing there's no real way a victim's family are going to pay in installments!
Frankly I think if the poster tries something like this laundering the ransom money would be the least of his worries anyway! :-)
V.
Interesting you say that because I think the BTC network is actually far more diverse than people really appreciate and I think this will actually only be realised when it comes to the time when more BTC will have to be put in circulation.
Also coincidentally for a bit of fun I did a basic structure for £1M of BTC and then developed it into something calculated to have around a 90% chance of succeeding and it would force the prices up of the BTC by 10-20p (most of the models I did hit 14.5p increase). Was quite an interesting challenge. :)
That's cool, I don't have many more years on you than that to be fair, I think (from what is all based on guesses) I have worked with a more diverse range of methods than yourself and dealt with larger sums.
For example can you do stuff like offshore property double-sells, commodity flips, high-end value fraud and things like that? Also do you work with money that has already been placed or have you set up structures that can place funds without suspicion?
Thanks Lim,
I was actually reading on The Bitcoin Trader that this is a potential avenue of attack by LE i.e using vast sums to force down the price of the Bitcoin only to cause it to shoot up again but apparently the effect of this is becoming more negligible as time goes on. As memory serves there's an upper limit of 20 Million Bitcoins which are being created at a steady rate so any ripples would have to be rather shallow in the nature of things!
I'm familiar with commodity flips but I simply haven't had the need to trade in property and securities to the extent you do as I only need to conceal my Bitcoin purchases for the sake of my clients. Now of course things are looking up and I have registered a small "financial services" in the BVI, Memorandum and Articles are in the post as we speak(!) there's no requirement for accounts in the other offshore jurisdictions I've found to be opened by a company incorporated in that territory so I might quietly shelve plans for the account in Belize ; perhaps we should discuss more specifics over PM?
I don't want to sound overly paranoid but at the very least your savvy is worth the consultation fees! :-)
V.
Yeah I wanted to discuss Belize with you, it's not that preferable as an offshore jurisdiction. PM me whenever you want mate, will be good to compare notes,
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i'm not reading 3 pages of shit on CP, just wanted to give my opinion - it's fucking WRONG. those cunts should be tied up and let the poor fuckers they abused, once old enough, beat the living shit out of them with any tools or weapons they choose.
i'm all for pro-choice but as soon as you start hurting others you cross the line. CP is a sexual preference, their brain is wired wrong, there's no way you can get them to think differently, so they should be put out of their misery before they get chance to act on it, or if they've already acted on it, in as much pain as humanly possible.
you can't bundle 15 year olds shagging other 15 year olds into this group - if you are both the same sort of age and consenting it's not even in the same league
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=26540.15
You should read this one Duke, it's.....well revealing.
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yeah i've already read that, just shocked at some people sounding like they're trying to defend it. i can't understand why some people think that way - they're ruining the lives of people that can't defend themselves - how can anyone even think of defending that? Anonymous managed to get one of these sites members locked up didn't they - good old boys. hopefully they'll get all moralistic and take down the lot of them
man it's too early for these deep and meaningful conversations... i'm going for a fag
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yeah i've already read that, just shocked at some people sounding like they're trying to defend it. i can't understand why some people think that way - they're ruining the lives of people that can't defend themselves - how can anyone even think of defending that? Anonymous managed to get one of these sites members locked up didn't they - good old boys. hopefully they'll get all moralistic and take down the lot of them
man it's too early for these deep and meaningful conversations... i'm going for a fag
Yeah what pissed me off about that thread is that not only is it a moral disgrace but also I had two people try and tell me why I was definitively wrong and then after that tell me what to think in a patronising manor, or what I call "receiving the complete cunt package". Also I'm sorry but where does a buyer get off telling a vendor or Mod how to think and form an opinion. I don't care if people disagree with my views on anything, that's the beauty of diversity but no fucker is taking away mine or anyone's right to have their own thought. This is fucking SR for fuck sake, having your own opinions and the freedom of choices is what this place is based on.
Also as a Vendor and a Mod I think I deserve a little bit more respect that to be patronized like that. Without the Admin, Vendors and Mods nobody would be buying fuck all drugs in the first place. I wouldn't fucking dream of talking to anyone like that, especially to any of the bigger vendors or any of the Mods/Admin who have all been here longer. Show some basic respect.
Finally Raouly have you got a spare fag? I cant be arsed to walk to the shop yet and I'm wound up.
Rant over.
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These threads are great for locating predators among us, goes to show they really are numerous on the TOR network. I say burn them at the stake!! >:D
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yeah i've already read that, just shocked at some people sounding like they're trying to defend it. i can't understand why some people think that way - they're ruining the lives of people that can't defend themselves - how can anyone even think of defending that? Anonymous managed to get one of these sites members locked up didn't they - good old boys. hopefully they'll get all moralistic and take down the lot of them
man it's too early for these deep and meaningful conversations... i'm going for a fag
Yeah what pissed me off about that thread is that not only is it a moral disgrace but also I had two people try and tell me why I was definitively wrong and then after that tell me what to think in a patronising manor, or what I call "receiving the complete cunt package". Also I'm sorry but where does a buyer get off telling a vendor or Mod how to think and form an opinion. I don't care if people disagree with my views on anything, that's the beauty of diversity but no fucker is taking away mine or anyone's right to have their own thought. This is fucking SR for fuck sake, having your own opinions and the freedom of choices is what this place is based on.
Also as a Vendor and a Mod I think I deserve a little bit more respect that to be patronized like that. Without the Admin, Vendors and Mods nobody would be buying fuck all drugs in the first place. I wouldn't fucking dream of talking to anyone like that. Show some basic respect.
Finally Raouly have you got a spare fag? I cant be arsed to walk to the shop yet.
It's like they honestly believe we're going to be seduced into joining the bandwagon. Sorry, but that shit's where I draw the line. I fucking hate bratty little kids, but in no way, shape, or form would I ever want something as rotten and depraved as that to happen to them. >:(
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Lol maybe that is why kmfkewm is so good at internet security...perhaps he's downloading pics of Big Steve fisting Little Johnny at the annual nonce convention. After that performance I wouldn't be surprised.
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haha - same here Gaz; i can't stand kids, but it doesn't mean i want any harm to come to them, especially not in that fucking vile fashion. just want the little bastards to stay away from me
yeah you can have a fag lim mate, i can see you being absolutely furious about that other thread :) B&H only though i'm afraid, don't do Marlys.
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Haha nahhhh not you Guru don't be daft. I was referring to this thread here - http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=26540.msg289735;topicseen#new
Read it from the start, you'll see what I mean.
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Good, maybe it will save some harmless dumb fuck from downloading a few pictures off of limewire out of curiosity and getting his ass vanned by the feds and labeled a sex offender for life because of it. Not to mention that no information should be censored. Not to mention that for child pornography images to exist, the molestation must have already taken place, it isn't like you can molest children though the Tor network. Plus law enforcement still find people who use Tor to upload original material, photographic forensics and other techniques. So the people actually producing CP are in many cases not being saved by Tor, and the people who view it are exactly the type of people that Tor should be protecting.
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It's mostly Russian organised crime Oscar.
And yeah Kap it'd be good if we could just line them up against them all. I'd never get fucking bored putting one through their skulls.
lolwut?? Their CPU and a PRNG is providing them with .onion addresses, and why would Russian organized crime want to distribute CP free of charge? It is mostly fanatical pedophiles who call themselves boy or girl lovers and think that they are being oppressed and that pedophilia will be seen as perfectly acceptable in ten or twenty years. They see themselves as freedom fighters in much the same way that SR sees himself (and is seen by others here). Most of them are extremely delusional and actually think having sex with children is good for them. Some of the others are quite psychopathic and are essentially the child sexual abuse version of serial killers. These people are quite dangerous, as many of the former are producers with many victims and many of the latter are the worst sort of human possible to imagine.
It is a shame that Tor protects child molesters and abusive psychopaths, but I think it is good that it protects peoples right to access information, including CP.
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It's mostly Russian organised crime Oscar.
And yeah Kap it'd be good if we could just line them up against them all. I'd never get fucking bored putting one through their skulls.
lolwut?? Their CPU and a PRNG is providing them with .onion addresses, and why would Russian organized crime want to distribute CP free of charge? It is mostly fanatical pedophiles who call themselves boy or girl lovers and think that they are being oppressed and that pedophilia will be seen as perfectly acceptable in ten or twenty years. They see themselves as freedom fighters in much the same way that SR sees himself (and is seen by others here). Most of them are extremely delusional and actually think having sex with children is good for them. Some of the others are quite psychopathic and are essentially the child sexual abuse version of serial killers. These people are quite dangerous, as many of the former are producers with many victims and many of the latter are the worst sort of human possible to imagine.
It is a shame that Tor protects child molesters and abusive psychopaths, but I think it is good that it protects peoples right to access information, including CP.
You make some decent arguments, but that's entirely dependent on the point of view taken. Jailbait, aka 16 and older, can be fine to an extent considering most are mature enough for sex by that age. Too bad we don't live in a perfect world and most pedo's are sexual deviant's.
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guys i just started to explore deep web today...well yesterday...this is the only place ive been but the dude who gave me the gift of deep web never said a word about child porn...is there really that much of it in this tor deal and if so what do i need to look for to avoid it...diggin younger lookin age appropriate teen girls is 1 thing but kids is another altogether and i have alot of faults but even thinkin about takin advantage of kids aint 1 of em and i just dont want to be around it on purpose i also dont want to wander up on it...anonymous or not i dont want that stuff even to be able to gimme a cookie im sort of scared to be here on sr but from what im told im fairly safe...if any1 can help me avoid that mass of suffering please reply
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To all of the people in this thread who admit to having seen CP, do you realize how lucky you are that you were on Tor or I2P or Freenet when you saw it? There are countless people just like you who saw CP on Limewire or Kazaa even only one time and they are entirely fucked because of it. I also find it hard to believe that you accidentally stumbled on CP on Tor, the shit is usually behind several disclaimers that you would have to click past, unless you somehow got directed to such a site past all of the disclaimers and didn't know what CP or JB meant on an image board, or somehow got a direct link to CP that didn't describe what the link was, which I can't remember ever having seen. I have NEVER stumbled on CP or JB on Tor. Maybe it is more in your face now than it used to be, it has been quite a while since I traveled around general onion space, but it used to be very well separated from everything else.
what do i need to look for to avoid it.
look for the disclaimers that say ---WARNING--- UNDERAGE CONTENT, and failing to notice those keep an eye out for the multiple paragraph warnings describing the security measures you should be taking to view very illegal underage content, failing that try not to click on links to sites that are named Child Porn Archive, failing that avoid clicking on links that are named either CP or JB. Those little hints generally mean that CP is in the general direction that you are traveling, somewhere in the distance.
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Lol I didn't mean you mate. Was referring to this thread - http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=26540.30
I wasn't actually pissed about other people opinions, people can think whatever they please. It's a free world after all. What pissed me off was the fact that despite the fact I quite politely said "Ok we will just agree to disagree" I was told over and over my opinion wasn't valid and then was told what I should think and how should go about thinking it. Sorry but nobody tells me what opinions I should have on something, especially as I did them the courtesy of not launching into someone and being actually extremely rude just because they have a different opinion to me. As I said this has nothing to with what they thought, as I said it's a free world. It's just that when I show someone some respect I want it in return, not an ego trip lol.
Just read the thread, I'm not being unreasonable on this.
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Lol I didn't mean you mate. Was referring to this thread - http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=26540.30
I wasn't actually pissed about other people opinions, people can think whatever they please. It's a free world after all. What pissed me off was the fact that despite the fact I quite politely said "Ok we will just agree to disagree" I was told over and over my opinion wasn't valid and then was told what I should think and how should go about thinking it. Sorry but nobody tells me what opinions I should have on something, especially as I did them the courtesy of not launching into someone and being actually extremely rude just because they have a different opinion to me. As I said this has nothing to with what they thought, as I said it's a free world. It's just that when I show someone some respect I want it in return, not an ego trip lol.
Just read the thread, I'm not being unreasonable on this.
Agreed wholeheartedly, several times I saw you trying to end the dispute in a mature manner yet they just continued squabbling over it. ???
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Man I just discovered a hidden wiki full of crazy shit. Dead animal fuckers, penis mutilation, hitmen for hire, etc. The CP sites are pretty fucked up, I saw one with a pedobear logo. That's just plain fucking creepy.
Now I'm no expert, but there seems to be child pornography and women of close to legal age, "jailbait". The CP shit is just incomprehensible. There was a listing for an incest sort of child porn site and I would literally bash some sick bastard's head in with a hammer if I knew he was an incest CHOMO.
The jailbait didn't seem all that bad, but still it's pretty fucked up in a creepy Dad wanting to fuck his daughter's friend sort of way. Some US states have different ages of consent, so in some states one could legally fuck a 14-17 year old.
There's some dark shit on Tor.
*I don't like any sort of CP and was not advocating jailbait, just an opinion*
whew I thought you were going to forgo the mandatory disclaimer but you just put it at the end
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ty anonaus and kmfkewm il stay on the road...i came to deep web for the road the road is where il stay...glad this is the 1st place i came..if not no tellin where i would have ended up...i appreciate the info
please and thank you
psycho-not
this reminds me of a saying my dad told me when i was about 9...
''just because you can son doesn't mean you should''
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kmfkewm, not if it is Russian. I thought it was some weird shit. It was called Golden Shell or some shit. Looked like some weird lifestyle site. It was, just way more weird and nasty than I was expecting!
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guys i just started to explore deep web today...well yesterday...this is the only place ive been but the dude who gave me the gift of deep web never said a word about child porn...is there really that much of it in this tor deal and if so what do i need to look for to avoid it...diggin younger lookin age appropriate teen girls is 1 thing but kids is another altogether and i have alot of faults but even thinkin about takin advantage of kids aint 1 of em and i just dont want to be around it on purpose i also dont want to wander up on it...anonymous or not i dont want that stuff even to be able to gimme a cookie im sort of scared to be here on sr but from what im told im fairly safe...if any1 can help me avoid that mass of suffering please reply
Any technology hackers use to hide their IP, location, identity etc has always been adopted by CP. They've always been one door over, which is why CP often find themselves being hacked, shut down, or generally harassed by various hackers and scenes. I remember 10+ years ago there were public listings of CP IRC channels and IP's to encourage attacks.
The whole drug market is a relatively new scene and is bringing a whole lot more attention to the underground than ever before, which has been mainly the hacking scene, the carders scene and CP. Unless you seek them out you shouldn't have any trouble, they aren't looking to be found.
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will the scourge of people watching videos of little kids taking shits never end :-/ ? I for one will feel much better knowing that there are not anonymous people watching already recorded videos of little kids taking shits. Please also go after the people watching men stretching their anuses out, and everything else disgusting on the internet.
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will the scourge of people watching videos of little kids taking shits never end :-/ ? I for one will feel much better knowing that there are not anonymous people watching already recorded videos of little kids taking shits. Please also go after the people watching men stretching their anuses out, and everything else disgusting on the internet.
just because something is history doesn't make the means justified. people doing stupid shit to themselves is their own fault, having your uncle bob video tape you at 6 taking a shit isn't the same as two consenting able minded people doing whatever the hell they want.
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Kill them.
Kill them all!
Fucking low life trash.
I feel tainted even knowing those scum use onion.
But they used VHS video also - they use all technology. Its not the technology to blame and most people who want to be anon are just concerned citizens who think its wrong for governments to use technology to spy on us all.
Even cops set to task to bring down vendors off SR will agree that a few people buying a bit of weed, coke, E and whatever is illegal but compared to child abuse drug abuse (some here will abuse their drug of choice) is a victimless crime.
Children need love and care. Anyone using them in a sexual manner needs killing as soon as possible.
Thanks for reading.
kill them all.
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Kill them.
Kill them all!
Fucking low life trash.
I feel tainted even knowing those scum use onion.
But they used VHS video also - they use all technology. Its not the technology to blame and most people who want to be anon are just concerned citizens who think its wrong for governments to use technology to spy on us all.
Even cops set to task to bring down vendors off SR will agree that a few people buying a bit of weed, coke, E and whatever is illegal but compared to child abuse drug abuse (some here will abuse their drug of choice) is a victimless crime.
Children need love and care. Anyone using them in a sexual manner needs killing as soon as possible.
Thanks for reading.
kill them all.
+1 Karma
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Kill them.
Kill them all!
Fucking low life trash.
I feel tainted even knowing those scum use onion.
But they used VHS video also - they use all technology. Its not the technology to blame and most people who want to be anon are just concerned citizens who think its wrong for governments to use technology to spy on us all.
Even cops set to task to bring down vendors off SR will agree that a few people buying a bit of weed, coke, E and whatever is illegal but compared to child abuse drug abuse (some here will abuse their drug of choice) is a victimless crime.
Children need love and care. Anyone using them in a sexual manner needs killing as soon as possible.
Thanks for reading.
kill them all.
Boil 'em, Mash 'em, Stick 'em in a Stew! >:D
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will the scourge of people watching videos of little kids taking shits never end :-/ ? I for one will feel much better knowing that there are not anonymous people watching already recorded videos of little kids taking shits. Please also go after the people watching men stretching their anuses out, and everything else disgusting on the internet.
just because something is history doesn't make the means justified. people doing stupid shit to themselves is their own fault, having your uncle bob video tape you at 6 taking a shit isn't the same as two consenting able minded people doing whatever the hell they want.
Are you truly incapable of seeing the distinction between your uncle Bob video taping you taking a shit at the age of six, and someone ten years later watching the video on Tor?
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So let me get this straight...
On SR it is totally okay to say that we should torture and kill people who have not harmed others, simply because of a sexual preference they have no choice in having....
but we should love the police and absolutely not talk about killing them, because they are just doing their jobs (which they choose to have) by locking us up for life due to us wanting to use drugs, while harming nobody at all?
what the fuck is wrong with you people?
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Welcome to teh interwebs.... !
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So let me get this straight...
On SR it is totally okay to say that we should torture and kill people who have not harmed others, simply because of a sexual preference they have no choice in having....
but we should love the police and absolutely not talk about killing them, because they are just doing their jobs (which they choose to have) by locking us up for life due to us wanting to use drugs, while harming nobody at all?
what the fuck is wrong with you people?
Your problem is you're viewing this from only one perspective, rather than from any one of ours. We can just as easily turn this around on you and say what the fuck is wrong with you?
Obviously we're at a standstill in opinions but you still won't agree to disagree, so again I say what the fuck is wrong with you? ???
stoplikingwhatidontlike.jpg
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So let me get this straight...
On SR it is totally okay to say that we should torture and kill people who have not harmed others, simply because of a sexual preference they have no choice in having....
but we should love the police and absolutely not talk about killing them, because they are just doing their jobs (which they choose to have) by locking us up for life due to us wanting to use drugs, while harming nobody at all?
what the fuck is wrong with you people?
Your problem is you're viewing this from only one perspective, rather than from any one of ours. We can just as easily turn this around on you and say what the fuck is wrong with you?
Obviously we're at a standstill in opinions but you still won't agree to disagree, so again I say what the fuck is wrong with you? ???
stoplikingwhatidontlike.jpg
I believe scientific studies and the abundance of information and I think that thought crime is a horrible notion, wtf is wrong with me! I don't think that viewing a picture results in quantum entanglement molestation, wtf is my problem.
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Why would people want to put kiddie porn on the sweet vidalia? That's what I call fucking up a good thing. Personally I may not have even been a member to even post here but from what I gather, that kinda shit is what the SR is against. Personally what people do to get off is their business, but don't fuck up a good thing cause you can't get your rocks off to a 19 year old teen slut you could probably pick up in a bar(some bars where I live allow 19 year olds) with a cheezy pickup line and a couple of well placed lies in less time it would take to find and download KIDDIE PORN, much less pay for it. Hell the 19 year olds come to the bar drunk and you can't buy them shit. Not to mention if you go to jail for that, you'll be getting it balls deep from a silverback gorilla for at least 10 years. Hell if your that fucking perverted get a fatty, we call them slump buster's, and get some jaw. You get off and she knows your not going to take her out tomorrow night.
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So let me get this straight...
On SR it is totally okay to say that we should torture and kill people who have not harmed others, simply because of a sexual preference they have no choice in having....
but we should love the police and absolutely not talk about killing them, because they are just doing their jobs (which they choose to have) by locking us up for life due to us wanting to use drugs, while harming nobody at all?
what the fuck is wrong with you people?
Your problem is you're viewing this from only one perspective, rather than from any one of ours. We can just as easily turn this around on you and say what the fuck is wrong with you?
Obviously we're at a standstill in opinions but you still won't agree to disagree, so again I say what the fuck is wrong with you? ???
stoplikingwhatidontlike.jpg
I believe scientific studies and the abundance of information and I think that thought crime is a horrible notion, wtf is wrong with me! I don't think that viewing a picture results in quantum entanglement molestation, wtf is my problem.
The fact that you encourage it to be made by viewing it is wrong enough for me. >:( I don't give a damn if you've never touched a child in your life, if you get off on that shit you are one bizarre motherfucker. That is an entirely abnormal fetish to have and isn't psychologically healthy in the least bit.
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Km, pedophiles pose a significant dilemma. I acknowledge that it is their innate sexual preference just as homo and hetero sexualities are not choices. So simple pedophiles who have never abused children do not deserve any punishment, just treatment because children, unlike adults, do not harbour the mental capacity to have a consensual sexual relationship. Giving them cp is not proper treatment for sooooooo many reasons. It feeds a sordid industry of child rape and the pedophiles desire to ASS FUCK children. Instead, the government could fund research pursuing more effective ways to combat child molestation and help pedophiles rather than deregulating cp...
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Km, pedophiles pose a significant dilemma. I acknowledge that it is their innate sexual preference just as homo and hetero sexualities are not choices. So simple pedophiles who have never abused children do not deserve any punishment, just treatment because children, unlike adults, do not harbour the mental capacity to have a consensual sexual relationship. Giving them cp is not proper treatment for sooooooo many reasons. It feeds a sordid industry of child rape and the pedophiles desire to ASS FUCK children. Instead, the government could fund research pursuing more effective ways to combat child molestation and help pedophiles rather than deregulating cp...
Like shipping them to an island to fend for themselves with nothing but an internet connection so they can fap all day long and night? I should think not! >:( The cheaper solution is to just eliminate them once and for all, full out holocaust style. 8) I'm sure the meth-heads are with me on this, what else would give soldiers the motivation to do this? ;)
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That's fucking disgusting when they try and justify it by saying that the kids WANT it. Do they have ANY idea of the damage they're causing? Every last one of them should be put to death
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That's fucking disgusting when they try and justify it by saying that the kids WANT it. Do they have ANY idea of the damage they're causing? Every last one of them should be put to death
I don't know if you're fishing for karma or not, but boy howdy you sure got it. ;D
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It is pointless to argue with many of you guys , this subject shuts down your brains and makes you incapable of higher thought. Your cognitive processes become entirely dominated by emotion. You can't even make a distinction between viewing something and participating in something.Your arguments against the right to view CP are all about child molestation, like the two things are equal somehow. I really think you are mentally incapable of seeing the distinction. It is so weird, but whatever.
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Km, pedophiles pose a significant dilemma. I acknowledge that it is their innate sexual preference just as homo and hetero sexualities are not choices. So simple pedophiles who have never abused children do not deserve any punishment, just treatment because children, unlike adults, do not harbour the mental capacity to have a consensual sexual relationship. Giving them cp is not proper treatment for sooooooo many reasons. It feeds a sordid industry of child rape and the pedophiles desire to ASS FUCK children. Instead, the government could fund research pursuing more effective ways to combat child molestation and help pedophiles rather than deregulating cp...
Does pornography feed your desire to ass fuck adults, or do you already desire to ass fuck adults without seeing pornography? And what child pornography industry is there? Essentially the entire commercial child pornography industry has been shut down for years. The vast majority of CP distribution consists of groups of people who only know each other by IP address putting shit up on public P2P networks for free, without even any real community aspect to speak of. The rest is anonymous people who don't even know each other by IP address trading on Freenet and Tor, or pseudonymous forum communities. The producers don't molest children simply because of the demand for CP, it is stupid to think so. The demand for CP could arguably lead to some production of CP, but it sure as hell does not lead to more child molestation.
PS: Even if it does lead to more child molestation, I still think people have the right to view CP. Buying cocaine leads to more murders in Mexico, should you be banned from buying cocaine? What, do you support murder?!?!
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It is pointless to argue with many of you guys , this subject shuts down your brains and makes you incapable of higher thought. Your cognitive processes become entirely dominated by emotion. You can't even make a distinction between viewing something and participating in something.Your arguments against the right to view CP are all about child molestation, like the two things are equal somehow. I really think you are mentally incapable of seeing the distinction. It is so weird, but whatever.
So you're an emotionless paedophile? Your parents must be awful proud. ::)
Sorry bro, but last I checked humans had emotions. :P
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Hm, not really interested in CP, it is a pretty fascinating community with a lot of history though. They are also some of the pioneers of doing highly secured illegal shit online, twenty years ago some of them were using better security than you are today. Jerking off to image of exploited children is definitely not good, not really bad either though. Kind of sick and strange sure, morally it is pretty solidly neutral though. Certainly not something to make a big fuss about, or send someone to jail over. Actually having sexual interaction with children is pretty clearly morally bad, for many definitions of child. Pretty strange you can not see the distinction. Your words actually lessen the badness of child molestation by comparing it to viewing pictures of molested children, even though the two things are not even close to on the same level.
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It is pointless to argue with many of you guys , this subject shuts down your brains and makes you incapable of higher thought. Your cognitive processes become entirely dominated by emotion. You can't even make a distinction between viewing something and participating in something.Your arguments against the right to view CP are all about child molestation, like the two things are equal somehow. I really think you are mentally incapable of seeing the distinction. It is so weird, but whatever.
So you're an emotionless paedophile? Your parents must be awful proud. ::)
Sorry bro, but last I checked humans had emotions. :P
Definitely do not meet the diagnosis criteria for pedophilia, maybe I am somewhat emotionally blunted compared to the average person, but I think I make up for it with extra portions of rationality.
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It is pointless to argue with many of you guys , this subject shuts down your brains and makes you incapable of higher thought. Your cognitive processes become entirely dominated by emotion. You can't even make a distinction between viewing something and participating in something.Your arguments against the right to view CP are all about child molestation, like the two things are equal somehow. I really think you are mentally incapable of seeing the distinction. It is so weird, but whatever.
Hi Kmfkewm,
Many thanks for your thoughts this has been an interesting discussion!
There does seem to be a school of thought which says if a child has already been abused and that's been recorded, that no additional harm can come to that particular child if a video is viewed.
Of course it's a touchy issue but while bearing this in mind, I still think that downloading such material shows your support of the community and could even encourage adults to continue supplying the demand for fresh material of children being abused.
I don't doubt that the majority of such people don't actually go on to harm a child directly themselves but this says less about them than the opportunities available to them to be in contact with children.
Of course there are grey areas such as how you and I might define CP (for example until recently in Britain it was quite legal for 16 year old girls to appear topless in newspapers like "The Sun") and personally I wouldn't want to criminalise normal displays of affection between teenagers such as kissing which has been banned recently in South Africa (http://allafrica.com/stories/200712280591.html).
Nevertheless I can't agree that viewing CP is a passive act any more than watching hurtcore or snuff videos is ; if you convince the purveyors there is a demand for the same then they will keep on producing it!
V.
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PS: Even if it does lead to more child molestation, I still think people have the right to view CP. Buying cocaine leads to more murders in Mexico, should you be banned from buying cocaine? What, do you support murder?!?!
Are you seriously trying to defend child pornography? Its fucking sick and anyone who engages or supports it in anyway should be castrated. Im a pretty peaceful guy but i would not hesitate to kill any sick fuck who even looks at my kids (or any innocent child) with thoughts of violating them. Comparing child porn to drugs is such an asinine argument its not even funny. Silkroad is about spreading awareness that responsible drug use is not the problem, but the war on drugs is. If cocaine wasnt illegal no one would be dying in mexico. Its not the small time users fault that mexican cartels are brutally murdering each other, its due to the system that is currently n place where violence is a crucial part of the equation to control the illegal drug trade.
Silkroad is another step towards a future of legalization and acceptance. It has the power to change the way the world views responsible drug use. Any form of CP only furthers these sick fucks twisted sexual tendencies and furthers leads them to believe its ok or justifiable. Fuck that.
I dont believe that its something those sick fucks cant control either, or that they are "born that way" so we should give them a break. Thats bullshit. Its wrong period. They know its wrong, and instead of trying to get better or get help, they continue to violate innocent children. All pedophiles die and burn in hell now.
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Its not the small time users fault that mexican cartels are brutally murdering each other, its due to the system that is currently n place where violence is a crucial part of the equation to control the illegal drug trade.
It is not a CP viewers fault that children are molested either....
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Vlad, imagine a content distribution system where it is cryptographically impossible for anyone to know how many people are downloading a particular file. This is called private information retrieval. So, you think that if a pedophile accesses CP via PIR, it is okay? Because it is impossible for the uploader or anyone else to know if anyone requested to download the CP, so the demand for CP in a PIR distribution network can NOT directly lead to more production, as it is impossible for anyone to determine ANY INFORMATION about the demand for CP via analysis such a system.
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Km, pedophiles pose a significant dilemma. I acknowledge that it is their innate sexual preference just as homo and hetero sexualities are not choices. So simple pedophiles who have never abused children do not deserve any punishment, just treatment because children, unlike adults, do not harbour the mental capacity to have a consensual sexual relationship. Giving them cp is not proper treatment for sooooooo many reasons. It feeds a sordid industry of child rape and the pedophiles desire to ASS FUCK children. Instead, the government could fund research pursuing more effective ways to combat child molestation and help pedophiles rather than deregulating cp...
Like shipping them to an island to fend for themselves with nothing but an internet connection so they can fap all day long and night? I should think not! >:( The cheaper solution is to just eliminate them once and for all, full out holocaust style. 8) I'm sure the meth-heads are with me on this, what else would give soldiers the motivation to do this? ;)
From what I've read as Sabteria says this seems to be a fundamental part of their sexual identity. Of course sexuality is a spectrum and you'll find many men find young adults or older teenagers attractive (without necessarily acting on those feelings) but a paedophile is defined as someone with a preference for pre-adolescent children.
I worked with someone who treated these kind of offenders for over 12 years and his opinion was that they cannot change, although with time some of them had apparently stopped offending (although the majority didn't!).
Worse still, many of them are intelligent and quickly learn to master the language used in by psychologists so can give the illusion of being a reformed sinner without actually feeling any genuine remorse and fully intending to continue harming children.
The only certainties are that :
- There are no children in prison, so if a paedophile is locked up then they cannot groom, molest or even contact children.
- If the paedophile is dead then they cannot harm anyone.
It is very important Justice is seen to be done and we don't allow accusations to replace actual evidence. We also need to take into account the circumstances of a crime e.g a 21 year old man kissing his 15 year old girlfriend doesn't make me want to form a lynch mob!
Nevertheless we do have a duty to protect the most vulnerable in society and if we're finding that people are faced with urges to molest young children, we should certainly offer therapy in the first instance. If they act on these urges however and this can be proved in a court of law I think we have no choice but to remove the threat they pose to society through execution.
Many thanks to everyone who's commented so far, very interesting topic!
V.
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Vlad, imagine a content distribution system where it is cryptographically impossible for anyone to know how many people are downloading a particular file. This is called private information retrieval. So, you think that if a pedophile accesses CP via PIR, it is okay? Because it is impossible for the uploader or anyone else to know if anyone requested to download the CP, so the demand for CP in a PIR distribution network can NOT directly lead to more production, as it is impossible for anyone to determine ANY INFORMATION about the demand for CP via analysis such a system.
An interesting notion isn't it? Does anyone know if this is how CP sites work in practice? For example is it possible to leave comments on videos and images even if it's not possible to know how many people have downloaded them?
Do you think it would be also possible to get an idea of the popularity of material you've uploaded by seeing it hosted on other sites or would material shared in this way be downloaded centrally?
V.
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Its not the small time users fault that mexican cartels are brutally murdering each other, its due to the system that is currently n place where violence is a crucial part of the equation to control the illegal drug trade.
It is not a CP viewers fault that children are molested either....
Its fucking wrong. Every last thing about it. Getting off to images of children, or even thinking about it is wrong. You were the one who tried to compare drug use and cp. There is no comparison except that they are both currently illegal. I only responded to this thread because i was disgusted that someone would be trying to defend this shit. There is no argument here and if you truly believe that there is nothing wrong with jerking off to images of children you too can die and burn in hell as well.
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@kmfkewm
You seem pretty knowledgeable about the child pornography scene. I don't know about you but when I look at some porn, I "engage" in masturbation. In your case that would mean jerking off to an image of an exploited child, which makes you a sick bastard. Please stop typing and fuck off to your chomo board.
You don't have to like child pornography to understand that pedos are on the front-lines, from the law enforcement perspective. They are the number one targets; drug users are considerably lower on the list of potential targets. Almost any study of law enforcement tools, techniques and tactics inevitably leads you back to the kiddie diddlers, since they are a prime focus of law enforcement efforts at suppression. Given that the kiddie diddlers tend to use the very same privacy and anonymity tools as the rest of us, any successes by law enforcement in locating, unmasking and apprehending the kiddie diddlers will also impact us.
Remember, any tools or techniques that can be used to unmask THEM can also be used to unmask US.
Guru
A very good point Guru - there is an extent here to which we've been hoisted on our own petard!
Of course Tor hidden services weren't created for the benefit of paedophiles but we're aware that many of the techniques they use to mask their activities are the same as those used by us.
I don't see a moral dilemma in this for the very simple reason that we apply these techniques in very different ways! The US & the UK routinely engage in espionage and many of our techniques are not dissimilar to those employed by less liberal countries like China and Russia to oppress people and deny them their human rights - this doesn't make espionage a bad idea overall!
You also make an excellent point about pedos being the No. 1 target for LE as I think there's simply more public pressure on them to do so.
V.
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Vlad, imagine a content distribution system where it is cryptographically impossible for anyone to know how many people are downloading a particular file. This is called private information retrieval. So, you think that if a pedophile accesses CP via PIR, it is okay? Because it is impossible for the uploader or anyone else to know if anyone requested to download the CP, so the demand for CP in a PIR distribution network can NOT directly lead to more production, as it is impossible for anyone to determine ANY INFORMATION about the demand for CP via analysis such a system.
An interesting notion isn't it? Does anyone know if this is how CP sites work in practice? For example is it possible to leave comments on videos and images even if it's not possible to know how many people have downloaded them?
Do you think it would be also possible to get an idea of the popularity of material you've uploaded by seeing it hosted on other sites or would material shared in this way be downloaded centrally?
V.
I am not aware of any CP distribution taking place over PIR, although OFFsystem might qualify for that, I know little about OFFsystem though. I am not saying this is how CP distribution today is done, but I am saying that if your primary issue with CP viewers is that the demand they create leads to production, then that issue would be solved if distribution took place over a PIR system. If the possibility of determining popularity of material by uploading to non PIR distribution mechanisms exists, then that would only apply to people who are actually uploading content. So still, your major gripe with CP is addressed in a world where all CP transfers are done via PIR. And you are left only being able to use your 'demand leads to more production, so should be banned' argument against people who upload or download outside of the PIR.
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@kmfkewm
You seem pretty knowledgeable about the child pornography scene. I don't know about you but when I look at some porn, I "engage" in masturbation. In your case that would mean jerking off to an image of an exploited child, which makes you a sick bastard. Please stop typing and fuck off to your chomo board.
You don't have to like child pornography to understand that pedos are on the front-lines, from the law enforcement perspective. They are the number one targets; drug users are considerably lower on the list of potential targets. Almost any study of law enforcement tools, techniques and tactics inevitably leads you back to the kiddie diddlers, since they are a prime focus of law enforcement efforts at suppression. Given that the kiddie diddlers tend to use the very same privacy and anonymity tools as the rest of us, any successes by law enforcement in locating, unmasking and apprehending the kiddie diddlers will also impact us.
Remember, any tools or techniques that can be used to unmask THEM can also be used to unmask US.
Guru
Glad to see someone else who stays up to date on law enforcement cyber techniques
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Vlad, imagine a content distribution system where it is cryptographically impossible for anyone to know how many people are downloading a particular file. This is called private information retrieval. So, you think that if a pedophile accesses CP via PIR, it is okay? Because it is impossible for the uploader or anyone else to know if anyone requested to download the CP, so the demand for CP in a PIR distribution network can NOT directly lead to more production, as it is impossible for anyone to determine ANY INFORMATION about the demand for CP via analysis such a system.
An interesting notion isn't it? Does anyone know if this is how CP sites work in practice? For example is it possible to leave comments on videos and images even if it's not possible to know how many people have downloaded them?
Do you think it would be also possible to get an idea of the popularity of material you've uploaded by seeing it hosted on other sites or would material shared in this way be downloaded centrally?
V.
I am not aware of any CP distribution taking place over PIR, although OFFsystem might qualify for that, I know little about OFFsystem though. I am not saying this is how CP distribution today is done, but I am saying that if your primary issue with CP viewers is that the demand they create leads to production, then that issue would be solved if distribution took place over a PIR system. If the possibility of determining popularity of material by uploading to non PIR distribution mechanisms exists, then that would only apply to people who are actually uploading content. So still, your major gripe with CP is addressed in a world where all CP transfers are done via PIR. And you are left only being able to use your 'demand leads to more production, so should be banned' argument against people who upload or download outside of the PIR.
I suppose my concern would be that even if you used PIR users would learn of the popularity of their content vicariously by comments left on videos/images or mirroring on other CP sites.
I appreciate this is ducking the issue however - let us imagine a system whereby a person could upload such content and have no idea who was watching it, would this then ethically absolve a downloader of any moral responsibility for viewing it?
If you don't mind I'd like to take some time to mull this over before responding in full, speak soon!
All the best,
V.
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Alternatively, you could consider a point in the future where CGI has advanced to a level which lets you generate fully synthetic CP that is indistinguishable from reality. Would you also advocate killing and burning people who want to view such content?
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Why no
Alternatively, you could consider a point in the future where CGI has advanced to a level which lets you generate fully synthetic CP that is indistinguishable from reality. Would you also advocate killing and burning people who want to view such content?
Why not use it to fuck synthetic women (or men if thats what floats your boat) instead of children?
If you are getting off to images of naked children, whether real or artificial, there is something wrong with you. These issues need to be addressed with professional help, or how about by listening to your conscience?
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Are you fucking kidding me? Were talking about raping children here. What the fuck is worse than that?! Bring up an issue that is intelligent and worth discussing and then you will see fair and reasonable conversation. There is no liberal or conservative argument here. How the fuck can you not see that.
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A good business who be to be a hitman who would do contract work for familys of abused children to kill or torture the degenerate abuser.
It is just the most selfish act imaginable after killing children, these people are evil and should be killed.
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CP=Kids being raped, abused, and violated.
we werent talking about raping children. it you guys who brang it up. would you prefer a pedophile jacks off in his room to CP, or he goes out and kidnaps and rapes your 5 year old daughter?
I wouldnt prefer either. I would prefer that anyone who condones or performs any of these acts disappears from the face of the earth. Since that isnt a possibility I will just have to settle for fucking tearing a new asshole to anyone who tries to defend or condone these horrific acts. And if i could I 100% would get drunk (and high) and watch them all burn, fuck it ill start the fire, as you stated below.
And btw i dont need alcohol or drugs, and could do it sober with no remorse.
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CP=Kids being raped, abused, and violated.
we werent talking about raping children. it you guys who brang it up. would you prefer a pedophile jacks off in his room to CP, or he goes out and kidnaps and rapes your 5 year old daughter?
I wouldnt prefer either. I would prefer that anyone who condones or performs any of these acts disappears from the face of the earth. Since that isnt a possibility I will just have to settle for fucking tearing a new asshole to anyone who tries to defend or condone these horrific acts. And if i could I 100% would get drunk (and high) and watch them all burn, fuck it ill start the fire, as you stated below.
And btw i dont need alcohol or drugs, and could do it sober with no remorse.
They don't know that what they're doing is wrong, they can't be reasoned with or helped so don't bother trying. Let the fuckers dwell over their own twisted thoughts. :P
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CP=Kids being raped, abused, and violated.
we werent talking about raping children. it you guys who brang it up. would you prefer a pedophile jacks off in his room to CP, or he goes out and kidnaps and rapes your 5 year old daughter?
I wouldnt prefer either. I would prefer that anyone who condones or performs any of these acts disappears from the face of the earth. Since that isnt a possibility I will just have to settle for fucking tearing a new asshole to anyone who tries to defend or condone these horrific acts. And if i could I 100% would get drunk (and high) and watch them all burn, fuck it ill start the fire, as you stated below.
And btw i dont need alcohol or drugs, and could do it sober with no remorse.
They don't know that what they're doing is wrong, they can't be reasoned with or helped so don't bother trying. Let the fuckers dwell over their own twisted thoughts. :P
Maybe you're right Gary, or maybe they just need to get fucked up and possibly have their assholes raped while they are held down and beaten within inches of their life. I dont know, but i prefer the latter.
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CP=Kids being raped, abused, and violated.
we werent talking about raping children. it you guys who brang it up. would you prefer a pedophile jacks off in his room to CP, or he goes out and kidnaps and rapes your 5 year old daughter?
I wouldnt prefer either. I would prefer that anyone who condones or performs any of these acts disappears from the face of the earth. Since that isnt a possibility I will just have to settle for fucking tearing a new asshole to anyone who tries to defend or condone these horrific acts. And if i could I 100% would get drunk (and high) and watch them all burn, fuck it ill start the fire, as you stated below.
And btw i dont need alcohol or drugs, and could do it sober with no remorse.
They don't know that what they're doing is wrong, they can't be reasoned with or helped so don't bother trying. Let the fuckers dwell over their own twisted thoughts. :P
Maybe you're right Gary, or maybe they just need to get fucked up and possibly have their assholes raped while they are held down and beaten within inches of their life. I dont know, but i prefer the latter.
I'd probably do something a bit more sinister if I could, but yeah that would be fine too. ;D
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Are you fucking kidding me? Were talking about raping children here. What the fuck is worse than that?! Bring up an issue that is intelligent and worth discussing and then you will see fair and reasonable conversation. There is no liberal or conservative argument here. How the fuck can you not see that.
No, YOU are the one who continually raises the issue of raping children here. This thread is about child pornography; in the jurisdiction where I live, it is perfectly possible to be charged, convicted and jailed for child pornography without EVER having involved a child whatsoever. People have been prosecuted, convicted, and JAILED -- for writing erotic fiction containing underage characters.
The age of consent in this country is 16. From a legal perspective, with relatively few restrictions, it is perfectly legal for two 16 year olds to engage in sexual intercourse. That said, if they take photos or videos of themselves engaged in the act, they are guilty of making and possessing child pornography. If one of the partners passes a copy of the photos/video to the other, they are guilty of distribution of child pornography. Even if the girl writes about her experiences in her diary, she risks prosecution -- if the diary is ever seen by anyone other than the author, she has committed a criminal offence, merely by committing certain words to paper.
Even in the United States, there have been cases such as I've described above. Read about the following case, and read the Court of Appeal's judgment. One of the couple is now a lifelong registrant as a sex offender.
Police blotter: Teens prosecuted for racy photos
http://news.cnet.com/Police-blotter-Teens-prosecuted-for-racy-photos/2100-1030_3-6157857.html
Court of Appeal judgement: http://politechbot.com/docs/child.porn.laws.apply.to.minors.020807.html
Guru
Whats your point bub? The OP was asking what I thought about CP on TOR. I think i expressed my feelings on the matter......
Just because there are different laws regarding CP in different jurisdictions does not change my opinion. This post wasnt about different jurisdictions and how the law varies depending on what country you are from.
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Are you fucking kidding me? Were talking about raping children here. What the fuck is worse than that?! Bring up an issue that is intelligent and worth discussing and then you will see fair and reasonable conversation. There is no liberal or conservative argument here. How the fuck can you not see that.
You are talking about raping children, more like screaming about children being raped while we are talking about pictures being viewed.
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Are you fucking kidding me? Were talking about raping children here. What the fuck is worse than that?! Bring up an issue that is intelligent and worth discussing and then you will see fair and reasonable conversation. There is no liberal or conservative argument here. How the fuck can you not see that.
No, YOU are the one who continually raises the issue of raping children here. This thread is about child pornography; in the jurisdiction where I live, it is perfectly possible to be charged, convicted and jailed for child pornography without EVER having involved a child whatsoever. People have been prosecuted, convicted, and JAILED -- for writing erotic fiction containing underage characters.
The age of consent in this country is 16. From a legal perspective, with relatively few restrictions, it is perfectly legal for two 16 year olds to engage in sexual intercourse. That said, if they take photos or videos of themselves engaged in the act, they are guilty of making and possessing child pornography. If one of the partners passes a copy of the photos/video to the other, they are guilty of distribution of child pornography. Even if the girl writes about her experiences in her diary, she risks prosecution -- if the diary is ever seen by anyone other than the author, she has committed a criminal offence, merely by committing certain words to paper.
Even in the United States, there have been cases such as I've described above. Read about the following case, and read the Court of Appeal's judgment. One of the couple is now a lifelong registrant as a sex offender.
Police blotter: Teens prosecuted for racy photos
http://news.cnet.com/Police-blotter-Teens-prosecuted-for-racy-photos/2100-1030_3-6157857.html
Court of Appeal judgement: http://politechbot.com/docs/child.porn.laws.apply.to.minors.020807.html
Guru
It's common sense that getting your panties in a bunch over fantasies involving minors when you yourself are a mature adult is morally wrong.
What I mean is that even in the event that laws regarding this subject were nonexistent, the vast majority of people would still feel the same. What you bring up are obvious flaws in the system, which while unfortunate, still happens on occasion. So yes I do agree that instances I've seen such as when a fourteen year old is registered as a sex offender for being in possession of pornographic material received from his sixteen year old girlfriend, but we're pretty positive that those defending pedophiles in the recent threads are not fourteen years old.
This could all be resolved if those in question would simply agree to disagree and cease their condescending attitudes towards the rest of us, but until that happens we'll continue this discussion for as long as necessary. >:(
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CP=Kids being raped, abused, and violated.
we werent talking about raping children. it you guys who brang it up. would you prefer a pedophile jacks off in his room to CP, or he goes out and kidnaps and rapes your 5 year old daughter?
I wouldnt prefer either. I would prefer that anyone who condones or performs any of these acts disappears from the face of the earth. Since that isnt a possibility I will just have to settle for fucking tearing a new asshole to anyone who tries to defend or condone these horrific acts. And if i could I 100% would get drunk (and high) and watch them all burn, fuck it ill start the fire, as you stated below.
And btw i dont need alcohol or drugs, and could do it sober with no remorse.
They don't know that what they're doing is wrong, they can't be reasoned with or helped so don't bother trying. Let the fuckers dwell over their own twisted thoughts. :P
Maybe you're right Gary, or maybe they just need to get fucked up and possibly have their assholes raped while they are held down and beaten within inches of their life. I dont know, but i prefer the latter.
Yes holding down people and beating them to within inches of their life after ass raping them is the perfect punishment to give to people who look at pictures of children being molested, potentially far less viciously than that.
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CP=Kids being raped, abused, and violated.
we werent talking about raping children. it you guys who brang it up. would you prefer a pedophile jacks off in his room to CP, or he goes out and kidnaps and rapes your 5 year old daughter?
I wouldnt prefer either. I would prefer that anyone who condones or performs any of these acts disappears from the face of the earth. Since that isnt a possibility I will just have to settle for fucking tearing a new asshole to anyone who tries to defend or condone these horrific acts. And if i could I 100% would get drunk (and high) and watch them all burn, fuck it ill start the fire, as you stated below.
And btw i dont need alcohol or drugs, and could do it sober with no remorse.
They don't know that what they're doing is wrong, they can't be reasoned with or helped so don't bother trying. Let the fuckers dwell over their own twisted thoughts. :P
Maybe you're right Gary, or maybe they just need to get fucked up and possibly have their assholes raped while they are held down and beaten within inches of their life. I dont know, but i prefer the latter.
Yes holding down people and beating them to within inches of their life after ass raping them is the perfect punishment to give to people who look at pictures of children being molested, potentially far less viciously than that.
Thank you! Finally you understand! And here I was beginning to think we were having no impact on you. :D
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The violent retards in this thread make me so glad for Tor, because even though people want to torture others to death, they can't trace them through Tor. Makes me happy that even though libertarians are not the majority, they have far more intelligent people in their ranks percentage wise, and can protect people from stupid laws and stupid violent people.
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I think he was being sarcastic Gary.
Kmfkew-You are still on the whole "looking at a picture" thing like its no big deal. Wtf?
Go to a museum or check out facebook if you want to look at pictures.
People are jerking off to pictures of little kids! What is the proper form of punishment for that??? Someone please enlighten me, but fyi, unless it involves a blow torch and a pair of pliers i may be a little hesitant to accept it.
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I don't hold being incapable of thinking rationally against you joey, not everyone can overcome emotion and indoctrination on the path to reason.
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The violent retards in this thread make me so glad for Tor, because even though people want to torture others to death, they can't trace them through Tor. Makes me happy that even though libertarians are not the majority, they have far more intelligent people in their ranks percentage wise, and can protect people from stupid laws and stupid violent people.
Lmao. Lets take TOR out of the equation. Ill still continue to voice my opinions with or without the anonymity that tor provides. As a matter of fact i already do on other clearnet forums, but thats another story. Its the sick fuck pedophiles that will cower and hide. They should be more thankful that TOR exists than anyone else because it allows them a place to gather with the other sick twisted scum of the earth.
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Kmfkew-You are still on the whole "looking at a picture" thing like its no big deal. Wtf?
Nope looking at picture is no big deal. Look at whatever the fuck you want to. Here, look at this, some legal united states produced hurtcore:
http://blindflaneur.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/napalm_kim_phuc.jpg
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Im done with this post. Everyone gets theres in the end.
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before reading kmfkewm's arguments on viewing CP I would have held the stance that it should be illegal. now i am not convinced, keep up the posting even when the frustration of people who can't use logic to reason in an argument and/or trolls makes it hard to continue, please :)
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CP=Kids being raped, abused, and violated.
we werent talking about raping children. it you guys who brang it up. would you prefer a pedophile jacks off in his room to CP, or he goes out and kidnaps and rapes your 5 year old daughter?
I wouldnt prefer either. I would prefer that anyone who condones or performs any of these acts disappears from the face of the earth. Since that isnt a possibility I will just have to settle for fucking tearing a new asshole to anyone who tries to defend or condone these horrific acts. And if i could I 100% would get drunk (and high) and watch them all burn, fuck it ill start the fire, as you stated below.
And btw i dont need alcohol or drugs, and could do it sober with no remorse.
They don't know that what they're doing is wrong, they can't be reasoned with or helped so don't bother trying. Let the fuckers dwell over their own twisted thoughts. :P
Maybe you're right Gary, or maybe they just need to get fucked up and possibly have their assholes raped while they are held down and beaten within inches of their life. I dont know, but i prefer the latter.
I'd probably do something a bit more sinister if I could, but yeah that would be fine too. ;D
ok e-hero
your the one who keeps de-railing the subject to rape and only looking at it with tunnel vision. the way you see it is, you werent unforortunate enough to be born with these sexual tendencies, so it doesnt matter and everyone who does should be tortured to death for your enjoyment based on something they were born with, and it doesnt matter because it doesnt effect you. Go run for governor of texas you phaggot
That's a good idea, especially since I'm already mayor of Whore Island. ;D
And of course I bring up rape. What else do pedophiles do when looking at the photo's other than masturbate? If they were to act out on their fantasies, that would be rape. The way I see it is any adult aroused by children has a serious social defect. Instincts naturally make any normal being to want to eradicate the defect, it's also the rational thing to do. Survival of the fittest, and in society pedophiles are at the bottom of the food chain. Even in small African villages, with no real laws to speak of, the people brutally eradicate any sexual predator.
Don't call me a hero by the way, I'm only a human. 8)
I think he was being sarcastic Gary.
I was too, guess I'm not very good at it. ::)
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I think he was being sarcastic Gary.
Kmfkew-You are still on the whole "looking at a picture" thing like its no big deal. Wtf?
Go to a museum or check out facebook if you want to look at pictures.
People are jerking off to pictures of little kids! What is the proper form of punishment for that??? Someone please enlighten me, but fyi, unless it involves a blow torch and a pair of pliers i may be a little hesitant to accept it.
if garys not smart enough to detect such obvious sarcasm, i really dont thnk he has any place in a debate concerning such a sensitive issue
I was being just as sarcastic as your pal kmfkewm was in his post before mine, you must be a bigger dunce than I originally thought. ::)
No offense Joey. ;)
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I think he was being sarcastic Gary.
Kmfkew-You are still on the whole "looking at a picture" thing like its no big deal. Wtf?
Go to a museum or check out facebook if you want to look at pictures.
People are jerking off to pictures of little kids! What is the proper form of punishment for that??? Someone please enlighten me, but fyi, unless it involves a blow torch and a pair of pliers i may be a little hesitant to accept it.
if garys not smart enough to detect such obvious sarcasm, i really dont thnk he has any place in a debate concerning such a sensitive issue
I was being just as sarcastic as your pal kmfkewm was in his post before mine, you must be a bigger dunce than I originally thought. ::)
No offense Joey. ;)
coming from someone who made a thread about knocking himself? attention seeking phaggot
Oh boo-freakiny-hoo, that really cut me deep. :'(
I'm going to go cut myself and listen to my Nickleback albums because they 'get me'. :-[
BAHAHAH No..and coming from an obvious troll themself? Don't make me laugh. attention seeking phaggot
^-^
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CP=Kids being raped, abused, and violated.
we werent talking about raping children. it you guys who brang it up. would you prefer a pedophile jacks off in his room to CP, or he goes out and kidnaps and rapes your 5 year old daughter?
I wouldnt prefer either. I would prefer that anyone who condones or performs any of these acts disappears from the face of the earth. Since that isnt a possibility I will just have to settle for fucking tearing a new asshole to anyone who tries to defend or condone these horrific acts. And if i could I 100% would get drunk (and high) and watch them all burn, fuck it ill start the fire, as you stated below.
And btw i dont need alcohol or drugs, and could do it sober with no remorse.
They don't know that what they're doing is wrong, they can't be reasoned with or helped so don't bother trying. Let the fuckers dwell over their own twisted thoughts. :P
Maybe you're right Gary, or maybe they just need to get fucked up and possibly have their assholes raped while they are held down and beaten within inches of their life. I dont know, but i prefer the latter.
I'd probably do something a bit more sinister if I could, but yeah that would be fine too. ;D
ok e-hero
your the one who keeps de-railing the subject to rape and only looking at it with tunnel vision. the way you see it is, you werent unforortunate enough to be born with these sexual tendencies, so it doesnt matter and everyone who does should be tortured to death for your enjoyment based on something they were born with, and it doesnt matter because it doesnt effect you. Go run for governor of texas you phaggot
That's a good idea, especially since I'm already mayor of Whore Island. ;D
And of course I bring up rape. What else do pedophiles do when looking at the photo's other than masturbate? If they were to act out on their fantasies, that would be rape. The way I see it is any adult aroused by children has a serious social defect. Instincts naturally make any normal being to want to eradicate the defect, it's also the rational thing to do. Survival of the fittest, and in society pedophiles are at the bottom of the food chain. Even in small African villages, with no real laws to speak of, the people brutally eradicate any sexual predator.
Don't call me a hero by the way, I'm only a human. 8)
I think he was being sarcastic Gary.
I was too, guess I'm not very good at it. ::)
In small african villages people rape babies because they think it cures HIV
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CP=Kids being raped, abused, and violated.
we werent talking about raping children. it you guys who brang it up. would you prefer a pedophile jacks off in his room to CP, or he goes out and kidnaps and rapes your 5 year old daughter?
I wouldnt prefer either. I would prefer that anyone who condones or performs any of these acts disappears from the face of the earth. Since that isnt a possibility I will just have to settle for fucking tearing a new asshole to anyone who tries to defend or condone these horrific acts. And if i could I 100% would get drunk (and high) and watch them all burn, fuck it ill start the fire, as you stated below.
And btw i dont need alcohol or drugs, and could do it sober with no remorse.
They don't know that what they're doing is wrong, they can't be reasoned with or helped so don't bother trying. Let the fuckers dwell over their own twisted thoughts. :P
Maybe you're right Gary, or maybe they just need to get fucked up and possibly have their assholes raped while they are held down and beaten within inches of their life. I dont know, but i prefer the latter.
I'd probably do something a bit more sinister if I could, but yeah that would be fine too. ;D
ok e-hero
your the one who keeps de-railing the subject to rape and only looking at it with tunnel vision. the way you see it is, you werent unforortunate enough to be born with these sexual tendencies, so it doesnt matter and everyone who does should be tortured to death for your enjoyment based on something they were born with, and it doesnt matter because it doesnt effect you. Go run for governor of texas you phaggot
That's a good idea, especially since I'm already mayor of Whore Island. ;D
And of course I bring up rape. What else do pedophiles do when looking at the photo's other than masturbate? If they were to act out on their fantasies, that would be rape. The way I see it is any adult aroused by children has a serious social defect. Instincts naturally make any normal being to want to eradicate the defect, it's also the rational thing to do. Survival of the fittest, and in society pedophiles are at the bottom of the food chain. Even in small African villages, with no real laws to speak of, the people brutally eradicate any sexual predator.
Don't call me a hero by the way, I'm only a human. 8)
I think he was being sarcastic Gary.
I was too, guess I'm not very good at it. ::)
In small african villages people rape babies because they think it cures HIV
Well shit, have you ever tried it? I'm sure you'd be the one to know though. ;D
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(Disclaimer: I'm not sure if my response here will be inappropriate because I was a victim, so if it is then Limitless please just delete it, no offense will be taken)
I find the issue of CP on Onionland difficult and so like others now have to avoid going to places other than SR.
My memory of my abuse is horrifically bad. I only know that it actually took place rather than being my imagination/me being mad because I found a single picture of myself being abused...and finding Tor obviously lead me to think "are there more?" Because of this I spent a long, long time wondering whether the CP on Tor could hold the answers for me. Could I talk to these people and figure out why? Could I find more pics of me and figure out who abused me? (No idea who did it at this point, but know a lot of what was done and where) I seriously obsessed about it for weeks...I thought about trawling the pages looking for myself... But ultimately, I had to accept that no good can come from this. And that there's just ugly fucking people in this world. And even if I did find myself what about the 100,000s of others?
I do often run what I'd say to the authorities in my head if they ever arrested me for the little bit of weed and things I buy on SR, especially in relation to the CP on Tor...and frankly, I'd be so pissed off! I like to fantasize in my head that they arrest me and I create a massive media shit storm for them...I smoke a bit of weed to make my life liveable (and it's like a j a day, not all day every day), I'm successful personally and professionally, and yet you're focusing your efforts on arresting me when I'm the victim of the people you appear to be ignoring?
God, I feel the need to add a postscript to say that I did grow up into a very successful and functioning person. Well, mostly... :)
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Who said that pedos are born this way? where is your proof of it? And how can someone, discussing this sensible theme, say homosexuality is like pedophilie?
No way, I never saw someone hurt from a homosexual relationship but CP is always a one way pleasure and will hurt the child. (even when the child will not notice at first)
with homosexuality you just want a counterpart to be in love with. Or having sex with someone for pleasure. There are homosexual persons that are pedos, too.
So if I am not mistake there is no proof that pedos are born this way. IMHO pedophilie is ALWAYS a mental illness.
yeah I know it sounds like this black and white sight thing and there is more grey ... bla bla bla ... but tell this child that commited himself to the sex with an adult, years later what happened and give this (now grown up) human the right to judge it, in a grownup state of their mind. I bet you wouldnt geht hugs for it.
Come on this is fucked up. we are talking about children here.
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Aligibbs- Sorry to hear about your situation. I dont wish any bad things on you or anyone else. This world is a fucked up place sometimes. Im not a violent person, it brings me no joy to come here and spew out threats, and I dont want to see anyone go to jail or have their lives ruined. I wish this shit didnt exist. I want a world where no child would have to ever experience anything like you mentioned. That would be my solution if i could make it happen. But i cant, nor can anyone else. The only people who can put a stop to this type of behavior are the ones who commit these actions.
What i said in earlier posts regarding violence was aimed at the people who actively participate in the violation of children not to anyone who has ever in their life looked at a picture of a naked child. TBH, my actions are just a defense mechanism because I have no control over these situations. I know people who were sexually abused in their youth and they suffer with it everyday of their life. I honestly would kill someone if they ever tried to violate my children, just like im sure anyone else in this world would do to protect their family. The problem isnt solved by me or anyone else by making threats to anyone though. But, I do not, nor will i ever condone this type of shit though, and i honestly feel that the people who commit these actions deserve to be punished severely and that jail is too good for them.
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Aligibbs- Sorry to hear about your situation. I dont wish any bad things on you or anyone else. This world is a fucked up place sometimes. Im not a violent person, it brings me no joy to come here and spew out threats, and I dont want to see anyone go to jail or have their lives ruined. I wish this shit didnt exist. I want a world where no child would have to ever experience anything like you mentioned. That would be my solution if i could make it happen. But i cant, nor can anyone else. The only people who can put a stop to this type of behavior are the ones who commit these actions.
What i said in earlier posts regarding violence was aimed at the people who actively participate in the violation of children not to anyone who has ever in their life looked at a picture of a naked child. TBH, my actions are just a defense mechanism because I have no control over these situations. I know people who were sexually abused in their youth and they suffer with it everyday of their life. I honestly would kill someone if they ever tried to violate my children, just like im sure anyone else in this world would do to protect their family. The problem isnt solved by me or anyone else by making threats to anyone though.
That being said, I do not, nor will i ever condone this type of sick behavior, and i honestly feel that the people who commit these actions deserve to be punished severely and that a jail cell is too good for them.
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No way, I never saw someone hurt from a homosexual relationship but CP is always a one way pleasure and will hurt the child. (even when the child will not notice at first)
I am pretty sure jacking off to gay porn is always a one way pleasure too, but maybe there is re-homosexual-pleasure-ization or something, I don't keep up with the latest magics regarding photographs.
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@12345 - so you don't think people are born to grow up with a specific sexual preference? i can't help being attracted to women - no one taught me that, it's just my preference, like gay guys can't help being attracted to other men - i don't have anything against gays - if you don't hurt anybody do what the fuck you like as far as i'm concerned, each to their own and all that, but you KNOW that gay guys dads did NOT want them growing up that way because they wouldn't be able to carry on the family name etc (honestly - is there any man out there who would NOT be secretly disappointed if their ONLY son turned out to be gay?). did their dads manage to 'teach' them to be straight? most likely if they tried too hard they'd end up with an estranged son who is still gay. so what makes you think pedos aren't born to grow up with bad wiring in their brain? it's not an illness - thats just a copout. like when people say obesity is an illness - fair enough some people do have a thyroid problem or whatever, but not fucking half the population, or whatever the stats are for obesity - bollocks is it, you've just got no self control when it comes to pies.
i'm not at all putting gays in the same basket as pedos, but it's the best example i could think of to get across what i'm trying to say
I like to think of pedophilia as a deviant sexual preference and separately as a mental illness, with the sexual preference not necessarily being coupled with mental illness but with the mental illness being mutually inclusive with pedophilia. The mental illness of pedophilia is characterized by extremely delusional thinking. Many pedophiles realize that it is bad to have sex with children, and they entirely avoid it. I do not see them as particularly mentally ill, although they certainly are not normal. However, some pedophiles do not think anything is wrong with pedophilia. They think that children are better off being molested by them, and that there is a conspiracy to keep the act of sexual interaction with children illegal and demonized. Some of them are even more extremely delusional, and think that actually sexually hurting children is an expression of love. They are very convinced that they are the good guys and see themselves as freedom fighters, or mentors/teachers or as helping impoverished children by paying them for sex acts etc, while in reality they are viciously abusing children. I think that when there is this significant of a disconnect from reality, that it is much more characteristic of a mental illness than of a deviant sexual preference. However in some cases it is fairly consistent with psychopathy, so there is probably a distinction to be made between 'psychopathic pedophilia' and 'delusional pedophilia'. These two sorts of pedophile are the vast majority of actual child molesters but are not even a majority of those who consume child pornography.
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do you think they are born with this 'mental illness' or after they grow up their brain just goes wrong?
I think that they are born with pedophilia as a sexual preference, and are then susceptible to developing the mental illness. Some people argue that exposure to child porn increases the probability that they will develop the mental illness via desensitization and becoming part of a community. However, I firmly believe that even if child porn increases the risk of child molestation that it should not be illegal as not everyone will progress down this path. And a counter argument that has a decent number of scientific studies backing it is that child pornography is a sexual release for all sorts of pedophile, and will lead to reduced child sex abuse as it offers an alternative to actual child molestation.
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I actually rarely wander round the onion now because I don't wana run into that shit. Just use TOR for SR work and that's it.
I only use tor for SR never even had it before then. Damn I have my blood all boiled up, I need to go stripe someone grr
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Fuck this has become a long thread.
What makes me laugh is that the people advocating the alternative policy regarding CP can't accept that the majority don't agree with them and just throw out the "You have no rational train of thought" lines again and again.
I don't care what people think on this and I am not telling anyone what to think so shut the fuck up before you think I am. I just find it hard to get my head round how hard some people find it when people don't take the pseudo-progressive liberal point of you.
Not everyone has to agree with you like you don't have to agree with everyone else, it's what makes the world an interesting place. Get over it and move on with your life.
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Fuck this has become a long thread.
What makes me laugh is that the people advocating the alternative policy regarding CP can't accept that the majority don't agree with them and just throw out the "You have no rational train of thought" lines again and again.
I don't care what people think on this and I am not telling anyone what to think so shut the fuck up before you think I am. I just find it hard to get my head round how hard some people find it when people don't take the pseudo-progressive liberal point of you.
Not everyone has to agree with you like you don't have to agree with everyone else, it's what makes the world an interesting place. Get over it and move on with your life.
because the "majority" keep advocating senseless violence. (not senseless if they have actually harmed a child, no one is disagreeing with that)
You obviously didn't read his post thoroughly. ::)
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Fuck this has become a long thread.
What makes me laugh is that the people advocating the alternative policy regarding CP can't accept that the majority don't agree with them and just throw out the "You have no rational train of thought" lines again and again.
I don't care what people think on this and I am not telling anyone what to think so shut the fuck up before you think I am. I just find it hard to get my head round how hard some people find it when people don't take the pseudo-progressive liberal point of you.
Not everyone has to agree with you like you don't have to agree with everyone else, it's what makes the world an interesting place. Get over it and move on with your life.
because the "majority" keep advocating senseless violence. (not senseless if they have actually harmed a child, no one is disagreeing with that)
Re-read my post, you have missed my point entirely.
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Fuck this has become a long thread.
What makes me laugh is that the people advocating the alternative policy regarding CP can't accept that the majority don't agree with them and just throw out the "You have no rational train of thought" lines again and again.
I don't care what people think on this and I am not telling anyone what to think so shut the fuck up before you think I am. I just find it hard to get my head round how hard some people find it when people don't take the pseudo-progressive liberal point of you.
Not everyone has to agree with you like you don't have to agree with everyone else, it's what makes the world an interesting place. Get over it and move on with your life.
first point, who gives a fuck what the majority thinks?
second point, think whatever you want until you start killing people or locking people up because they looked at pictures
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I think some of the stuff on the Hidden Wiki is blagged. I once saw a link to 'Human experiments' on there. Sure, in the world we live in this stuff could indeed happen... But I reckon some things on the Hidden Wiki are there to scare people. Looked at it once, then lost interest.
yea whats up with that human experiment thing. that shit is fucked up. and it seems they make each other mate to test the fetuses as well. shit is fucked up.
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Fuck this has become a long thread.
What makes me laugh is that the people advocating the alternative policy regarding CP can't accept that the majority don't agree with them and just throw out the "You have no rational train of thought" lines again and again.
I don't care what people think on this and I am not telling anyone what to think so shut the fuck up before you think I am. I just find it hard to get my head round how hard some people find it when people don't take the pseudo-progressive liberal point of you.
Not everyone has to agree with you like you don't have to agree with everyone else, it's what makes the world an interesting place. Get over it and move on with your life.
first point, who gives a fuck what the majority thinks?
second point, think whatever you want until you start killing people or locking people up because they looked at pictures
Christ for someone who considers themselves above everyone you are truly phenomenal at missing the point.
My point is not whom is in the majority and whom is not. Who gives a fuck about this? I never said that was my point, it was merely an observation.
What I am saying is that you continue to rail against people who clearly aren't going to change their mind and they have every right to hold to the opinion they have JUST LIKE YOU DO WITH YOUR OUTLOOK ON THIS. Just accept this and move on with your life because if you have nothing better to do than run into this brick wall over and over again then you need to get a hobby.
I can't for the life of me not see why this is so hard for people to understand. X person thinks one thing, Y person thinks the other and Z person may even think something else and they are all entitled to think as they see fit.
Just leave it be, trying to change peoples minds about things and in particular this subject is a fools errand and it just makes you look as intolerant as the people you stamp that label on.
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i think those who look at pictures, vids, etc I really can't understand it so I prefer not to think about it. in my mind I just can't get it. does not fit.
those who molest children and make vids, rape etc.. should all put a double barrel shotgun on their mouth and make their only good action while they are in this world.
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Thanks for the nice things people said. I now realize that was probably a gross over share on my part, oops!
I can't remember who asked what question but I'll try and answer them.
It was a printed off picture (as opposed to a professional one) so my assumption was that they were taken digitally and as such someone had probably uploaded it. And my main motivation was just to try and ascertain who took the picture and who was in it (whoever they were knew what the fuck they were doing, or it was at least premeditated, picture is basically evidence free...no identifiable anything!). I've pretty much made peace with it, actually. I'll probably never know, and I'd rather never remember.
I never actually looked at any of the CP sites on Tor, I'm not that brave, nor that mentally stable. I do ok, but I'm fairly certain that'd tip me over the edge, or most people, really.
And no, I don't think it'd actually work if I got arrested. But I like to rant at the authorities about it in my head sometimes when under the influence of the odd substance or two...or maybe even out loud...don't we all?? :)
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I dunno how anyone could stomach to look at it even out of the most morbid curiosity to be honest. I was thinking about this the other day and I although I normally have no sympathy for any LE I do feel sorry for the poor bastards that have to investigate that shit. If I had to deal with that day-in day-out I'd be on the happy pills guaranteed. Couldn't adjust to that.
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I agree with limitless 100%, in no way shape or form do i ever feel anything for LEO's , except when it comes to this matter...
The act of people doing this, for fun, or for monetary gain, is fucking disgusting, and horrifying to even think a human is capable of such....vile and disturbing acts.
To all the pedophiles of the .onion world. GO FUCK YOURSELVES, MUTILATE YOUR GENITALS AND JUMP OFF A FUCKING BRIDGE! This world is better off without scum like this...And i hope every fucking CP site gets shut down here on the .onion
( i know they wont, but i can dream can't i? )
Preying on children is wrong, no matter how you think you can justify it. You can say " oh, but im mental, im sick blah blah blah "
Its not a fucking sickness, its your own sick fucking sexual desire to look at kids, and i hope that every single one of these bastards is dragged 20 miles by a rope attached to their dicks.
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Do you people know that the sex offender registries are full of children (something like 35%) ?
Do you know that LEOs have arrested children (BELOW 10 YEARS OLD), in cases such as "playing doctor" ?
Do you know that the FUCKING FBI hosts child porn in LimeWire in order to set traps?
LEO is scum. LEOs are thiefs, terrorists, child rapists. No redeeming qualities.
The pedophilia hysteria is something really horrific. Don't be trollbait.
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what is this onionland?
a forum?
what's the address?
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Do you people know that the sex offender registries are full of children (something like 35%) ?
Do you know that LEOs have arrested children (BELOW 10 YEARS OLD), in cases such as "playing doctor" ?
Do you know that the FUCKING FBI hosts child porn in LimeWire in order to set traps?
LEO is scum. LEOs are thiefs, terrorists, child rapists. No redeeming qualities.
The pedophilia hysteria is something really horrific. Don't be trollbait.
Pedophilia hysteria is fucking scary, it is hard to believe there are people who want to kill others over how they feel or what they see.
Also one last point, to the people who say omg well it is illegal...in Czech Republic child porn is legal to possess. No images or videos of anything are banned. Personal use possession of all recreational drugs is decriminalized to the point that it is essentially legal, and the age of consent is 15 :D. It is a shame that other countries are not so free :<.
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Do you people know that the sex offender registries are full of children (something like 35%) ?
Do you know that LEOs have arrested children (BELOW 10 YEARS OLD), in cases such as "playing doctor" ?
Do you know that the FUCKING FBI hosts child porn in LimeWire in order to set traps?
LEO is scum. LEOs are thiefs, terrorists, child rapists. No redeeming qualities.
The pedophilia hysteria is something really horrific. Don't be trollbait.
Pedophilia hysteria is fucking scary, it is hard to believe there are people who want to kill others over how they feel or what they see.
Also one last point, to the people who say omg well it is illegal...in Czech Republic child porn is legal to possess. No images or videos of anything are banned. Personal use possession of all recreational drugs is decriminalized to the point that it is essentially legal, and the age of consent is 15 :D. It is a shame that other countries are not so free :<.
Likewise it's hard to believe there are people who want to fuck little kids in the ass. ???
Also you're the last person I expected to use the argument that "It's legal therefor it's okay". :o
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Do you people know that the sex offender registries are full of children (something like 35%) ?
Do you know that LEOs have arrested children (BELOW 10 YEARS OLD), in cases such as "playing doctor" ?
Do you know that the FUCKING FBI hosts child porn in LimeWire in order to set traps?
LEO is scum. LEOs are thiefs, terrorists, child rapists. No redeeming qualities.
The pedophilia hysteria is something really horrific. Don't be trollbait.
Pedophilia hysteria is fucking scary, it is hard to believe there are people who want to kill others over how they feel or what they see.
Also one last point, to the people who say omg well it is illegal...in Czech Republic child porn is legal to possess. No images or videos of anything are banned. Personal use possession of all recreational drugs is decriminalized to the point that it is essentially legal, and the age of consent is 15 :D. It is a shame that other countries are not so free :<.
Likewise it's hard to believe there are people who want to fuck little kids in the ass. ???
Also you're the last person I expected to use the argument that "It's legal therefor it's okay". :o
Well if people want to say "it's illegal so it isn't okay", then I think the "it's legal so it is okay" counter argument is okay to use, as it pretty much cancels out their arguments.
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Pretty much my goal is to reduce your arguments to their core, which is "The thought of people thinking children are sexually attractive repulses me, let's kill them because of how they feel and think, regardless of what they actually do"
We have established that it is possible to legally download child porn in such a way that no information about the demand for child porn can be known, via use of private information retrieval in the Czech Republic. So it is theoretically quite possible to completely shoot down the "demand leads to supply" and "it is illegal" arguments. Numerous scientific studies have been done that shoot down the "child pornography viewing leads to pedophiles being more likely to molest" argument. So really you are simply left with the "These people think things I don't like, let's kill them!!!" argument.
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Do you people know that the sex offender registries are full of children (something like 35%) ?
Do you know that LEOs have arrested children (BELOW 10 YEARS OLD), in cases such as "playing doctor" ?
Do you know that the FUCKING FBI hosts child porn in LimeWire in order to set traps?
LEO is scum. LEOs are thiefs, terrorists, child rapists. No redeeming qualities.
The pedophilia hysteria is something really horrific. Don't be trollbait.
Pedophilia hysteria is fucking scary, it is hard to believe there are people who want to kill others over how they feel or what they see.
Also one last point, to the people who say omg well it is illegal...in Czech Republic child porn is legal to possess. No images or videos of anything are banned. Personal use possession of all recreational drugs is decriminalized to the point that it is essentially legal, and the age of consent is 15 :D. It is a shame that other countries are not so free :<.
Likewise it's hard to believe there are people who want to fuck little kids in the ass. ???
Also you're the last person I expected to use the argument that "It's legal therefor it's okay". :o
Well if people want to say "it's illegal so it isn't okay", then I think the "it's legal so it is okay" counter argument is okay to use, as it pretty much cancels out their arguments.
So you pretty much prove the point Limetless was trying to make? ???
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Pretty much I just want you to admit that you have no good reason to hate all pedophiles, and the reason you hate them all is based entirely on their feelings instead of their actions, and that you think it is okay to kill or arrest someone over the way that they feel instead of over any real harm that they actually cause. Instead of trying to disguise your baseless hate as having any rational reasoning behind it.
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Pretty much I just want you to admit that you have no good reason to hate all pedophiles, and the reason you hate them all is based entirely on their feelings instead of their actions, and that you think it is okay to kill or arrest someone over the way that they feel instead of over any real harm that they actually cause. Instead of trying to disguise your baseless hate as having any rational reasoning behind it.
You fail to realize that I believe any sick fuck that get's their diddlies from looking at children should be mutilated. So your argument is invalid. ::)
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Seriously, why are you so set on changing peoples minds? Why do you feel that everyone should think the same as you? It's quite ridiculous.
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It's fucking unconscionable. People like that just need to be put to death.
i disagree, I think we should simply castrate them. it seems like the most humane thing to do, honestly. Look, this is a tough problem to think about at all, but there are some good points made about the nature of being a kid toucher. I think its just a sexual orientation that some people can't avoid...they've existed in all cultures and societies across time and earth; aside from being tortured by the taboo of their sexual orientation they would be normal. problem is, their sexual orientation is damaging to individuals and society as a whole.
so? cut their balls off. then they stop desiring any sexual activity at all and can get on with their lives and the parents in the eunuch's neighborhood can sleep easy. I'm sure the pedo's would fight against it with all their will, but they'd probably thank us for it once it was done. I can't imagine the headspace those guys live in.....::shudder:: I don't venture out browsing in onionland because thats the kind of shit you can't unsee, if you know what i mean.
anyway, spread the word: find out someone's a pedo? gotta get his balls.
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Seriously, why are you so set on changing peoples minds? Why do you feel that everyone should think the same as you? It's quite ridiculous.
Some people have a need to be right. I can be like that, and I can be overbearing about it at times, which is why I made some of the remarks to you that I did.
Guru
Yes but the difference with you is that 1. you aren't rude and 2. you debate and don't enforce and 3. you clearly didn't expect me to change my mind lol.
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Pretty much my goal is to reduce your arguments to their core, which is "The thought of people thinking children are sexually attractive repulses me, let's kill them because of how they feel and think, regardless of what they actually do"
We have established that it is possible to legally download child porn in such a way that no information about the demand for child porn can be known, via use of private information retrieval in the Czech Republic. So it is theoretically quite possible to completely shoot down the "demand leads to supply" and "it is illegal" arguments. Numerous scientific studies have been done that shoot down the "child pornography viewing leads to pedophiles being more likely to molest" argument. So really you are simply left with the "These people think things I don't like, let's kill them!!!" argument.
Actually that's wrong:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18442288
http://ceop.police.uk/Documents/ceopdocs/CEOP%20IIOCTA%20Executive%20Summary.pdf
"A meta-analysis24 of research which looked at prevalence rates of contact sexual offending within different IIOC offender samples established a correlation of 55%"
Basically, 55% of people who view child pornography online go on to abuse children in real life.
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It's fucking unconscionable. People like that just need to be put to death.
i disagree, I think we should simply castrate them. it seems like the most humane thing to do, honestly. Look, this is a tough problem to think about at all, but there are some good points made about the nature of being a kid toucher. I think its just a sexual orientation that some people can't avoid...they've existed in all cultures and societies across time and earth; aside from being tortured by the taboo of their sexual orientation they would be normal. problem is, their sexual orientation is damaging to individuals and society as a whole.
so? cut their balls off. then they stop desiring any sexual activity at all and can get on with their lives and the parents in the eunuch's neighborhood can sleep easy. I'm sure the pedo's would fight against it with all their will, but they'd probably thank us for it once it was done. I can't imagine the headspace those guys live in.....::shudder:: I don't venture out browsing in onionland because thats the kind of shit you can't unsee, if you know what i mean.
anyway, spread the word: find out someone's a pedo? gotta get his balls.
I think that the assumption here is that a paedophile's motive for molesting children is primarily sexual. I'm not convinced this is the case as castration has not been shown to reduce this type of sexual offence.
The first source I found on Google says as much : http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawreview/frames/252/spalfram.html
It would seem in the States there is also a worry that legally it would be Unconstitutional, though in the past challenges of this kind have failed as far as child abusers are concerned (cf. Megan's Law).
It seems to me the only humane solution for the sake of both the paedophile and their potential victims is to either segregate them from society permanently or simply execute them if they're found guilty of molesting a prepubescent child.
It doesn't mean we relax the burden of proof, nor form lynch mobs, nor will we condemn an adult who has sexual relations with a teenager as a matter of course but where there is evidence a person presents this kind of danger to the community it seems to me that execution is the only way society can protect itself.
I apologise in advance if this sounds inhumane but there doesn't seem to be any other viable solution at this stage!
V.
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Pretty much my goal is to reduce your arguments to their core, which is "The thought of people thinking children are sexually attractive repulses me, let's kill them because of how they feel and think, regardless of what they actually do"
We have established that it is possible to legally download child porn in such a way that no information about the demand for child porn can be known, via use of private information retrieval in the Czech Republic. So it is theoretically quite possible to completely shoot down the "demand leads to supply" and "it is illegal" arguments. Numerous scientific studies have been done that shoot down the "child pornography viewing leads to pedophiles being more likely to molest" argument. So really you are simply left with the "These people think things I don't like, let's kill them!!!" argument.
Actually that's wrong:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18442288
http://ceop.police.uk/Documents/ceopdocs/CEOP%20IIOCTA%20Executive%20Summary.pdf
"A meta-analysis24 of research which looked at prevalence rates of contact sexual offending within different IIOC offender samples established a correlation of 55%"
Basically, 55% of people who view child pornography online go on to abuse children in real life.
Actually that is wrong and made up bullshit propaganda from law enforcement agencies
http://libertus.net/censor/resources/statistics-laundering.html#ncm40
"40 per cent of arrested child pornography possessors sexually abused children"
According to an opinion article by Bernadette McMenamin, CEO of Child Wise (ECPAT in Australia), published in the The Australian on 8 January 2008: "In 2005 the United States National Center for Missing and Exploited Children revealed that 40 per cent of arrested child pornography possessors sexually abused children."[77]
The 40% number was in a report distributed by the NCMEC in 2005 and the percentage concerned research findings in relation to a total of 429 cases during the 12 months beginning 1 July 2000. However, insofar as the phrasing of the assertion quoted above appears to imply that 40% of persons arrested for possession of child pornography were found to have sexually abused children, it does not accurately reflect the research findings.
The research found that "one out of six", i.e. 16% of "cases originating with an allegation or investigation of child pornography discovered a dual offender who had also sexually victimized children or attempted to do so".
Findings of the N-JOV Study
The source of the 40% figure is the second report on the National Juvenile Online Victimization Study ("N-JOV Study")[78] conducted by researchers (Janis Wolak, David Finkelhor, and Kimberly J. Mitchell) at the Crimes Against Children Research Center, University of New Hampshire (in north-western U.S.A.). The research report was "funded by the U.S. Congress Through a Grant to the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children".
(Note: Although NCMEC's media release of 18 August 2005 cites the above research report as the source of numerous NCMEC claims about 'growing', 'increasing', etc, the research report did not find, or claim, that anything is increasing, growing, etc. The research concerned a one year period beginning 1 July 2000 and did not compare findings from that period with any other period.)
According to the research report:
The goals of the National Juvenile Online Victimization (N-JOV) Study were to survey law-enforcement agencies within the United States (U.S.) to count arrests for Internet-related sex crimes committed against minors and describe the characteristics of the offenders, the crimes they committed, and their victims.
The above report was the second report on the N-JOV Study and it was focussed on a 'representative national sample' of persons arrested for Internet-related sex crimes who possessed child pornography, i.e. a sub-set of the cases identified in the N-JOV survey.
The researchers found that "[U.S.] Law-enforcement agencies nationally made an estimated 1,713 arrests for Internet-related crimes involving the possession of child pornography during the 12 months beginning July 1, 2000". The estimate of 1,713 was projected from 429 actual cases identified.
The researchers also stated "[T]o give some perspective on this estimate of 1,713 arrests for Internet-related CP possession, we estimate there were approximately 65,000 arrests in 2000 for all types of sexual assaults committed against minors".
In the sub-set comprising persons who possessed child pornography (429 actual cases), 47% of the cases arose in the criminal-justice system as cases of child sexual victimization or attempted child sexual victimization (solicitations to undercover investigators) and 53% of the cases arose as cases involving child pornography possession.
The 40% number is a further sub-set which comprises cases/persons whom the researchers termed 'dual offenders' because "They sexually victimized children and possessed child pornography, with both crimes discovered in the course of the same investigation":
We found 40% of the cases involving CP possession in the N-JOV Study involved dual offenses of CP possession and child sexual victimization detected in the course of the same investigation. All of these offenders had identified child victims. An additional 15% both possessed CP and attempted to sexually victimize children by soliciting undercover investigators posing online as minors. When these cases of attempted child sexual victimization are counted, 55% of the CP possessors were dual offenders (unweighted n = 241, weighted n = 936).
(Note that the actual number of dual offender cases identified was 241).
84% of the dual offenders were discovered in cases starting as investigations of child sexual victimization which subsequently turned up child pornography possession (55% child sexual victimization plus 29% solicitations to undercover investigators). 16% were discovered in cases starting as investigations of child pornography which subsequently detected a sexually victimized child or an attempt to do so (solicitation to an undercover investigator).
The researchers stated:
When we looked at all of the cases originating as allegations or investigations of CP possession and examined how many resulted in the arrests of dual offenders, we found
In 14% of cases investigators found dual offenders who both possessed child pornography and sexually victimized children
In 2% of cases investigators found offenders who possessed child pornography and attempted to sexually victimize children by soliciting undercover investigators posing online as minors
84% of cases involved CP possession but investigators did not detect concurrent child sexual victimization or attempts at child victimization
This means one out of six cases [i.e. 16%] originating with an allegation or investigation of child pornography discovered a dual offender who had also sexually victimized children or attempted to do so.
The research report also states:
Limitations
The N-JOV Study is the first research gathering information about a national sample of arrested CP possessors. Data from a national sample is a strength of the N-JOV Study, but like every scientific survey, the study also has limitations. Readers should keep some of these important things in mind when considering the findings and conclusions of this study.
First, ...
Second, ...
Third, there is an additional caution to our findings about dual offenders. Knowing a considerable number of dual offenders were discovered during investigations of Internet-related, child-sexual-victimization and CP possession cases does not explain how possessing child pornography is related to child sexual victimization or whether it causes or encourages such victimization. We did not have the data to determine this. In particular we had no information about the sequencing of the crimes committed by dual offenders or about undetected crimes they may have committed and little information about their criminal histories and how they used the child pornography they possessed.
[emphasis added]
In summary, the U.S. case research from which the NCMEC's 40% figure originates, found in a one year period beginning 1 July 2000, an estimated 1,713 arrests for Internet-related crimes involving the possession of child pornography (of which 55% also involved sexual victimization of children, or attempts to do so), and an estimated 65,000 arrests in the U.S. for all types of sexual assaults committed against minors. Of the Internet-related cases, one out of six [i.e. 16% of] the cases originating with an allegation or investigation of child pornography discovered a dual offender who had also sexually victimized children or attempted to do so.
so 16% is a more realistic figure, of course then you also need to filter out the people who are called sex offenders for doing things like fucking 16 year olds, that will probably drop at least a few percentage points. Then you also need to take into consideration that this is not at all a comprehensive study, they can at best go off of the people they arrested, and in many cases they found people with CP after busting them in undercover operations where they were pretending to be minors, of course that population of CP possessors is going to have a much higher rate of prior offending. The entire thing is a bunch of propaganda bullshit, at the very worst the figure is 16% and even that is a bullshit exaggeration in reality it is probably below 10%.
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d00d did u kno that lsd causes chromosome damage and weed makes ur dick fall off it must be true police.com said so!! They have absolutely not got a massive financial stake in keeping people terrified of drugs and drug users so I can trust what they say!!!!!
It isn't like hunting people down for downloading CP is a multi billion dollar a year industry. It is one of the biggest scams in the world. Omg people who download CP are 110% child molesters who want to rape your children!!!!! 0_0 send us moneys !!!! We spider limewire for a billion dollars (pinky in mouth)!!! think of teh childrenz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111
ps: before you say 'omfgzmgz even 10% is too much!' I want you to think of the percentage of white males who molest children, so should we lock all white males up to prevent that small % from potentially molesting children? If you say no my only reply is , you are a pedophile scum fuck and I hope you are ass raped with a butcher knife.
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Pretty much my goal is to reduce your arguments to their core, which is "The thought of people thinking children are sexually attractive repulses me, let's kill them because of how they feel and think, regardless of what they actually do"
We have established that it is possible to legally download child porn in such a way that no information about the demand for child porn can be known, via use of private information retrieval in the Czech Republic. So it is theoretically quite possible to completely shoot down the "demand leads to supply" and "it is illegal" arguments. Numerous scientific studies have been done that shoot down the "child pornography viewing leads to pedophiles being more likely to molest" argument. So really you are simply left with the "These people think things I don't like, let's kill them!!!" argument.
Actually that's wrong:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18442288
http://ceop.police.uk/Documents/ceopdocs/CEOP%20IIOCTA%20Executive%20Summary.pdf
"A meta-analysis24 of research which looked at prevalence rates of contact sexual offending within different IIOC offender samples established a correlation of 55%"
Basically, 55% of people who view child pornography online go on to abuse children in real life.
Actually that is wrong and made up bullshit propaganda from law enforcement agencies
http://libertus.net/censor/resources/statistics-laundering.html#ncm40
"40 per cent of arrested child pornography possessors sexually abused children"
According to an opinion article by Bernadette McMenamin, CEO of Child Wise (ECPAT in Australia), published in the The Australian on 8 January 2008: "In 2005 the United States National Center for Missing and Exploited Children revealed that 40 per cent of arrested child pornography possessors sexually abused children."[77]
The 40% number was in a report distributed by the NCMEC in 2005 and the percentage concerned research findings in relation to a total of 429 cases during the 12 months beginning 1 July 2000. However, insofar as the phrasing of the assertion quoted above appears to imply that 40% of persons arrested for possession of child pornography were found to have sexually abused children, it does not accurately reflect the research findings.
The research found that "one out of six", i.e. 16% of "cases originating with an allegation or investigation of child pornography discovered a dual offender who had also sexually victimized children or attempted to do so".
Findings of the N-JOV Study
The source of the 40% figure is the second report on the National Juvenile Online Victimization Study ("N-JOV Study")[78] conducted by researchers (Janis Wolak, David Finkelhor, and Kimberly J. Mitchell) at the Crimes Against Children Research Center, University of New Hampshire (in north-western U.S.A.). The research report was "funded by the U.S. Congress Through a Grant to the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children".
(Note: Although NCMEC's media release of 18 August 2005 cites the above research report as the source of numerous NCMEC claims about 'growing', 'increasing', etc, the research report did not find, or claim, that anything is increasing, growing, etc. The research concerned a one year period beginning 1 July 2000 and did not compare findings from that period with any other period.)
According to the research report:
The goals of the National Juvenile Online Victimization (N-JOV) Study were to survey law-enforcement agencies within the United States (U.S.) to count arrests for Internet-related sex crimes committed against minors and describe the characteristics of the offenders, the crimes they committed, and their victims.
The above report was the second report on the N-JOV Study and it was focussed on a 'representative national sample' of persons arrested for Internet-related sex crimes who possessed child pornography, i.e. a sub-set of the cases identified in the N-JOV survey.
The researchers found that "[U.S.] Law-enforcement agencies nationally made an estimated 1,713 arrests for Internet-related crimes involving the possession of child pornography during the 12 months beginning July 1, 2000". The estimate of 1,713 was projected from 429 actual cases identified.
The researchers also stated "[T]o give some perspective on this estimate of 1,713 arrests for Internet-related CP possession, we estimate there were approximately 65,000 arrests in 2000 for all types of sexual assaults committed against minors".
In the sub-set comprising persons who possessed child pornography (429 actual cases), 47% of the cases arose in the criminal-justice system as cases of child sexual victimization or attempted child sexual victimization (solicitations to undercover investigators) and 53% of the cases arose as cases involving child pornography possession.
The 40% number is a further sub-set which comprises cases/persons whom the researchers termed 'dual offenders' because "They sexually victimized children and possessed child pornography, with both crimes discovered in the course of the same investigation":
We found 40% of the cases involving CP possession in the N-JOV Study involved dual offenses of CP possession and child sexual victimization detected in the course of the same investigation. All of these offenders had identified child victims. An additional 15% both possessed CP and attempted to sexually victimize children by soliciting undercover investigators posing online as minors. When these cases of attempted child sexual victimization are counted, 55% of the CP possessors were dual offenders (unweighted n = 241, weighted n = 936).
(Note that the actual number of dual offender cases identified was 241).
84% of the dual offenders were discovered in cases starting as investigations of child sexual victimization which subsequently turned up child pornography possession (55% child sexual victimization plus 29% solicitations to undercover investigators). 16% were discovered in cases starting as investigations of child pornography which subsequently detected a sexually victimized child or an attempt to do so (solicitation to an undercover investigator).
The researchers stated:
When we looked at all of the cases originating as allegations or investigations of CP possession and examined how many resulted in the arrests of dual offenders, we found
In 14% of cases investigators found dual offenders who both possessed child pornography and sexually victimized children
In 2% of cases investigators found offenders who possessed child pornography and attempted to sexually victimize children by soliciting undercover investigators posing online as minors
84% of cases involved CP possession but investigators did not detect concurrent child sexual victimization or attempts at child victimization
This means one out of six cases [i.e. 16%] originating with an allegation or investigation of child pornography discovered a dual offender who had also sexually victimized children or attempted to do so.
The research report also states:
Limitations
The N-JOV Study is the first research gathering information about a national sample of arrested CP possessors. Data from a national sample is a strength of the N-JOV Study, but like every scientific survey, the study also has limitations. Readers should keep some of these important things in mind when considering the findings and conclusions of this study.
First, ...
Second, ...
Third, there is an additional caution to our findings about dual offenders. Knowing a considerable number of dual offenders were discovered during investigations of Internet-related, child-sexual-victimization and CP possession cases does not explain how possessing child pornography is related to child sexual victimization or whether it causes or encourages such victimization. We did not have the data to determine this. In particular we had no information about the sequencing of the crimes committed by dual offenders or about undetected crimes they may have committed and little information about their criminal histories and how they used the child pornography they possessed.
[emphasis added]
In summary, the U.S. case research from which the NCMEC's 40% figure originates, found in a one year period beginning 1 July 2000, an estimated 1,713 arrests for Internet-related crimes involving the possession of child pornography (of which 55% also involved sexual victimization of children, or attempts to do so), and an estimated 65,000 arrests in the U.S. for all types of sexual assaults committed against minors. Of the Internet-related cases, one out of six [i.e. 16% of] the cases originating with an allegation or investigation of child pornography discovered a dual offender who had also sexually victimized children or attempted to do so.
so 16% is a more realistic figure, of course then you also need to filter out the people who are called sex offenders for doing things like fucking 16 year olds, that will probably drop at least a few percentage points. Then you also need to take into consideration that this is not at all a comprehensive study, they can at best go off of the people they arrested, and in many cases they found people with CP after busting them in undercover operations where they were pretending to be minors, of course that population of CP possessors is going to have a much higher rate of prior offending. The entire thing is a bunch of propaganda bullshit, at the very worst the figure is 16% and even that is a bullshit exaggeration in reality it is probably below 10%.
Of course our common sense should tell us that to say, "Most molesters view child porn" is not the same thing as saying "Most people who view child porn are molesters".
I gave some thought to what you said about being able to upload material in such a way that you have no idea how many people have downloaded it. You said that you believed that this would abrogate any moral responsibility from the downloader for encouraging the creator of child pornography to continue to upload such material.
Just a few points about this:
- Are we sure that this is the way material is shared in practice? Are there no comment sections on images or videos? I imagine there would be on image boards? Also wouldn't it be possible for the people who set up a site like this to monitor visitor traffic to see if there's an interest for their materials, even if they can't tell if a specific file has been downloaded?
- Does removing this particular obstacle through use of technology necessarily mean that the downloader won't encourage others by sharing such material themselves with other paedophiles? If so, wouldn't it make them responsible for encouraging the creation and viewing of such materials anyway?
- Does removing this particular moral objection to downloading CP i.e that it encourages the creation of yet more CP necessarily mean that there are no other reasons to find such material objectionable? If you don't believe the fact that it causes moral outrage for the majority is a good enough reason to make something illegal where should we draw the line? What about hurtcore and snuff pornography and the like?
- Does this issue need to be about legalising or criminalising CP across the board? I imagine you're aware that there are different categories of CP depending on the age of the child and the degree of sexual activity? For instance if a man were caught with a video of intercourse with a six year old girl this would be treated much more severely than a 21 year old man having a picture of his topless 16 year old girlfriend on his phone.
As such, can't we just have faith in the current system where apply our common sense on a case by case basis by outlawing more extreme forms of CP involving young children but dealing leniently with teenagers who share provocative images of themselves?
V.
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- Are we sure that this is the way material is shared in practice? Are there no comment sections on images or videos? I imagine there would be on image boards? Also wouldn't it be possible for the people who set up a site like this to monitor visitor traffic to see if there's an interest for their materials, even if they can't tell if a specific file has been downloaded?
This is not how material is currently shared in practice, other than maybe on OFFsystem. There are most likely comment sections on all the distribution mechanisms other than Limewire style P2P networks. It is not a site per-se, it is a network. The network would need to host various things other than CP. If it is PIR, nobody will be able to differentiate the interest in CP from the interest in other things on the network. There could be zero interest in the CP, or it could be all CP, nobody can know. Likewise, monitoring traffic will not tell you what is a client is requesting, it could be CP or it could be anything else on the network.
Here is the most basic PIR system, and the only way to do it with a single server. There is a website that hosts images. Anyone can upload images. To download any image, you need to download all of the images. If you want image of an apple, you need to download the entire archive of images and then filter it for apples. Now nobody can know which image you were interested in, thus the demand for certain images is perfectly concealed. This is an extremely basic example of PIR but it shows that it is possible and maybe gives you a better idea of what it is. You can do a lot with PIR, don't be fooled by the simplicity of the example I gave.
It is actually kind of ironic that, in the extremely basic PIR example I gave above (everyone downloads everything, then filters it for what they are interested in), you perfectly hide the demand for CP by having a lot more people downloading it than actually want it. So download CP to combat child sex abuse I guess. I just proved that, if demand for CP leads to production, less production will happen if more people download CP ;).
- Does removing this particular obstacle through use of technology necessarily mean that the downloader won't encourage others by sharing such material themselves with other paedophiles? If so, wouldn't it make them responsible for encouraging the creation and viewing of such materials anyway?
Apples and oranges man, we were talking about if downloading and viewing CP should be illegal, not if sharing CP outside of a PIR system should be illegal.
- Does removing this particular moral objection to downloading CP i.e that it encourages the creation of yet more CP necessarily mean that there are no other reasons to find such material objectionable? If you don't believe the fact that it causes moral outrage for the majority is a good enough reason to make something illegal where should we draw the line? What about hurtcore and snuff pornography and the like?
Snuff and hurtcore should also be legal to possess and view. We draw the line no where. There is no line. No picture or video should be illegal to view. There is also moral outrage over drug use as far as the majority goes, is that good enough of a reason to keep drugs illegal?
- Does this issue need to be about legalising or criminalising CP across the board? I imagine you're aware that there are different categories of CP depending on the age of the child and the degree of sexual activity? For instance if a man were caught with a video of intercourse with a six year old girl this would be treated much more severely than a 21 year old man having a picture of his topless 16 year old girlfriend on his phone.
Yes it needs to be about legalizing viewing of CP across the board. I am not saying "Hm, some CP isn't that bad at all, and these teenagers who took pictures of themselves and uploaded them to the internet are not sexually abused when people view the pictures", I am saying "Even the worst most disgusting sort of CP imaginable should not be illegal to view, because it is a fucking series of pixels, and has absolutely no effect whatsoever on anyone other than the person viewing it, and censorship is bad in all of its forms".
As such, can't we just have faith in the current system where apply our common sense on a case by case basis by outlawing more extreme forms of CP involving young children but dealing leniently with teenagers who share provocative images of themselves?
First of all, the age of consent to make pornography should be lowered to such that pictures of naked 16 year olds are not even illegal to produce, and for two, no, censorship is bad.
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Two days later Captain Chomo is still going on boy-fucking tirades. Sigh.
I think that you must live in an alternate universe, the reality that you apparently see is quite different from the reality that I see.
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This is going to be unpopular.. but here it is..
The results of the Drug War and genocide waged against all manner of "thought criminals" has resulted in a situation where many sorts of people are arrayed in opposition to the "forces of law".
Slamming the pedos and begging the pigs to only focus on "those damn pedos" is sniveling, contemptible and CRAVEN.
Grow a pair. These people are every bit as much victims of the Pig Regime as we are. They are no more deserving of having their human rights violated because of other people's opinions on their possession/use of "information" (i.e. media) than drug users are for altering their own state of consciousness (again an instance of voluntary "information manipulation").
Just as a Pig will focus on the absolute worst aspect of the drug scene to justify their fascist behavior
"well heroin junkies steal and kill to fund their habits"
so they will focus on scenarios where the worst sorts of sexual exploitation are theorized to justify their intervention
"these people are sodomizing 4 year olds!!!".
In fact.. the reality is mostly responsible adults using drugs in private that they bought or grew with legitimately owned resources.
And in fact.. most of the pervs are wanking off to jailbait pics.
The solution, the "cure" is FAR FAR FAR worse than the disease. I don't see someone with a horrible head cold and euthanize them as a "treatment"!!
Until the LE are lined up against the wall and executed en masse, the pervs are right here in the hot seat with the rest of us social malcontents.. and we'd best get used to having erstwhile allies who we find deplorable.
Save the ire and disgust for the REAL enemy.. the ones who rape, kill, steal and kidnap on a regular basis.
Instead of ball-licking the law-dogs and begging them to please go after "evil pedo bastards".
How much moral COWARDICE is it going to take before some of the posters on this thread choke on their own lack of serious moral fiber and recognize the true enemy isn't people wanking off (to whatever shit they are wanking off too).
It is the motherfuckers who want to cage, rob and control YOU.
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What's with the censorship? Question is what our opinion is and when I tell that I'm perfectly fine with CP, the post gets deleted?
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It seems to me the only humane solution for the sake of both the paedophile and their potential victims is to either segregate them from society permanently or simply execute them if they're found guilty of molesting a prepubescent child.
It doesn't mean we relax the burden of proof, nor form lynch mobs, nor will we condemn an adult who has sexual relations with a teenager as a matter of course but where there is evidence a person presents this kind of danger to the community it seems to me that execution is the only way society can protect itself.
I apologise in advance if this sounds inhumane but there doesn't seem to be any other viable solution at this stage!
V.
Oh this is HILARIOUS.
You casually talk about killing a peado.. yet you are all self-righteous when it comes to discussion of responding in kind to the LE bastiches who kidnap, murder and rob folks.
MORALLY BANKRUPT HYPOCRITE FOR THE FAIL!!
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It seems to me the only humane solution for the sake of both the paedophile and their potential victims is to either segregate them from society permanently or simply execute them if they're found guilty of molesting a prepubescent child.
It doesn't mean we relax the burden of proof, nor form lynch mobs, nor will we condemn an adult who has sexual relations with a teenager as a matter of course but where there is evidence a person presents this kind of danger to the community it seems to me that execution is the only way society can protect itself.
I apologise in advance if this sounds inhumane but there doesn't seem to be any other viable solution at this stage!
V.
Oh this is HILARIOUS.
You casually talk about killing a peado.. yet you are all self-righteous when it comes to discussion of responding in kind to the LE bastiches who kidnap, murder and rob folks.
MORALLY BANKRUPT HYPOCRITE FOR THE FAIL!!
Thank you for your thoughts and for capitalising key words ; no doubt other users would have had trouble following your line of thought otherwise... erm...!
Anyway, as I said there's a world of difference between executing someone after a fair trial and arbitrarily murdering someone by taking the law into your own hands.
I drew this distinction when we talked about the Police and the Military killing people as a last resort in the course of their duty in accordance with the laws of a democratic state and I stand by that.
There's no contradiction or hypocrisy in advocating the death penalty as a sentencing option after a person has been found guilty of molesting a young child as opposed to murdering a Police officer in cold blood.
If you remember that thread was shut down after some more unpleasant people started openly advocating murder of LEO so I suggest if you have a grievance about this you send me a message so we can discuss it in private.
V.
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I don't want to think about it, people who abuse of kids are just monsters .. i use TOR for SR and to connect to my VPS servers with an hidden ssh access. They are several good way to use TOR, SR is one of them ;) use the TOR network responsibly!
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I think it should be illegal to download and view CP because of my views on consent. I don't think people have a right to view images of a child being raped as that child has not consented to the act itself, the production of the image, or the distribution of it. My interpretation of kmfkewm's position is that he is a consequentialist of some kind or other, so I can see why he takes the position he does. And I agree that a person viewing CP does not have the same consequences as a person producing it. It's just that I don't think that the consequences are the most important issue here.
I'll try and get my point across with a non-CP example
Let's say you take a photograph of yourself where it looks like you have a double-chin, and decide you don't want anyone else to see it. I think that you are under no obligation to show it to anyone. I think that if you inform me that you care very strongly about no-one else viewing the image, that you would feel greatly upset if someone else did view the image, and if I respect you as a human being and care about your dignity (which I ought to do), then I have a duty to assist you in preventing others from viewing the image as far as I can. And I think that this has nothing to do with whether or not someone else viewing the image would cause you any harm, or even whether you would ever find out the image had been viewed. I think it is part of a duty I have to respect your humanity; to respect you as a being in your own right, not merely a means to the end of another's goals.
Now let's say that rather than you taking the photo, someone else takes it, and the photo is of you being violated in the most disgusting way imaginable. I think the argument is the same, but the imperative for me is far stronger.
I think the problem with arguing from a position like kmfkewm's is that the same type of reasoning - consequentialist - leads people to say things like:
The production of CP is bad because it harms the children in the images.
Which then leads others to make the argument:
It does not actually harm the children in some cases; sometimes they are too young to remember.
Which then leads into an empirical debate about whether or not abuse is harmful; whether some kinds are more or less harmful than others. Whereas I see it really as a moral debate, where the simple issue is: children are not in a position to offer consent; are defenseless; and should not be used merely as a means to sexual gratification. And I think this applies also to the viewing of the images: they did not consent to the production of the images, so the person who creates them has no right to them, particularly in virtue of the circumstances in which the images were produced. Thus I think no-one has a right to distribute them, and as I think that most victims of abuse, if asked, would say that they do not want the images of their abuse distributed or viewed by anyone, that we have a duty to prevent their distribution and to prevent others from viewing them.
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I think it should be illegal to download and view CP because of my views on consent. I don't think people have a right to view images of a child being raped as that child has not consented to the act itself, the production of the image, or the distribution of it. My interpretation of kmfkewm's position is that he is a consequentialist of some kind or other, so I can see why he takes the position he does. And I agree that a person viewing CP does not have the same consequences as a person producing it. It's just that I don't think that the consequences are the most important issue here.
I'll try and get my point across with a non-CP example
Let's say you take a photograph of yourself where it looks like you have a double-chin, and decide you don't want anyone else to see it. I think that you are under no obligation to show it to anyone. I think that if you inform me that you care very strongly about no-one else viewing the image, that you would feel greatly upset if someone else did view the image, and if I respect you as a human being and care about your dignity (which I ought to do), then I have a duty to assist you in preventing others from viewing the image as far as I can. And I think that this has nothing to do with whether or not someone else viewing the image would cause you any harm, or even whether you would ever find out the image had been viewed. I think it is part of a duty I have to respect your humanity; to respect you as a being in your own right, not merely a means to the end of another's goals.
Now let's say that rather than you taking the photo, someone else takes it, and the photo is of you being violated in the most disgusting way imaginable. I think the argument is the same, but the imperative for me is far stronger.
I think the problem with arguing from a position like kmfkewm's is that the same type of reasoning - consequentialist - leads people to say things like:
The production of CP is bad because it harms the children in the images.
Which then leads others to make the argument:
It does not actually harm the children in some cases; sometimes they are too young to remember.
Which then leads into an empirical debate about whether or not abuse is harmful; whether some kinds are more or less harmful than others. Whereas I see it really as a moral debate, where the simple issue is: children are not in a position to offer consent; are defenseless; and should not be used merely as a means to sexual gratification. And I think this applies also to the viewing of the images: they did not consent to the production of the images, so the person who creates them has no right to them, particularly in virtue of the circumstances in which the images were produced. Thus I think no-one has a right to distribute them, and as I think that most victims of abuse, if asked, would say that they do not want the images of their abuse distributed or viewed by anyone, that we have a duty to prevent their distribution and to prevent others from viewing them.
I have no duty to prevent others from viewing images of anything. What if someone has a picture of them with a double chin leak out to the internet? Should we have task force for tracking down the people who view it? Should we send them to jail? By your logic it is just as bad to look at an embarrassing photograph of a celebrity that some paparazzi took, as it is to look at CP. I guess we should arrest everyone who reads tabloids and give them sentences equal to the sentences people receive for viewing CP? Anyway I think molestation is bad even if the victim does not remember. They are obviously not able to consent to having sex. However, there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE that they will remember someone anonymously viewing their picture! There is a difference between looking at a photograph of the holocaust and being a war criminal!
PS: Vinny, you stupid fuck. Earlier in this thread, you said you viewed CP on Tor. Now you argue that people who view CP should be killed or go to jail. So please, turn yourself in. You obviously intentionally browsed a CP image board after seeing it on Tor, as it is not possible to accidentally surf around CP. You broke CP laws in doing so, and should be made to register as a sex offender after getting ass raped in jail. I find it funny that the dude who admitted to checking out CP on Tor is calling someone who never said such a thing captain chomo, if I am captain chomo for saying it should be legal to view CP, what does that make you for admitting that you checked out some CP sites on Tor? President Chomo?
Man I just discovered a hidden wiki full of crazy shit. Dead animal fuckers, penis mutilation, hitmen for hire, etc. The CP sites are pretty fucked up, I saw one with a pedobear logo. That's just plain fucking creepy.
Now I'm no expert, but there seems to be child pornography and women of close to legal age, "jailbait". The CP shit is just incomprehensible. There was a listing for an incest sort of child porn site and I would literally bash some sick bastard's head in with a hammer if I knew he was an incest CHOMO.
The jailbait didn't seem all that bad, but still it's pretty fucked up in a creepy Dad wanting to fuck his daughter's friend sort of way. Some US states have different ages of consent, so in some states one could legally fuck a 14-17 year old.
How are you going to explain to the feds why you were looking at jailbait and sites with pedobear logos? What is it okay for YOU to check out CP but if others do it they are sick fucks and must die right? You are special I guess? The only thing that makes you special in the eyes of the law is the fact that they can't see you because you used Tor, as far as they are concerned YOU are a CP sex offender who just has not been busted yet.
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I have no duty to prevent others from viewing images of anything. What if someone has a picture of them with a double chin leak out to the internet? Should we have task force for tracking down the people who view it? Should we send them to jail? By your logic it is just as bad to look at an embarrassing photograph of a celebrity that some paparazzi took, as it is to look at CP. I guess we should arrest everyone who reads tabloids and give them sentences equal to the sentences people receive for viewing CP? Anyway I think molestation is bad even if the victim does not remember. They are obviously not able to consent to having sex. However, there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE that they will remember someone anonymously viewing their picture! There is a difference between looking at a photograph of the holocaust and being a war criminal!
Well I agree that there is a difference between looking at a photograph of the holocaust and being a war criminal. I also don't think we should have a task force for tracking down the people who view unflattering pictures, or that people should receive the same sentences for viewing those sorts of images as they do for viewing CP. But I think I do find that kind of tabloid journalism disgusting, and the leering consumers disgusting. But my levels of disgust are much higher when it comes to people taking the same attitudes towards CP. So by my logic, yes, I think it is the same sort of thing that is going on. I guess I believe people have a right to their image. So I see it as the same right being violated. But I don't think that necessitates equal punishment, or means that there is not greater urgency to tackle CP before tabloids. Or that I would even bother to attempt to tackle tabloids - I think that they are bad, but not really enough to move me to action - probably a moral failing on my part, but there is only so much stuff I can give a crap about before I end up being a gibbering tweaky mess, which doesn't really help anyone.
I think I agree with you that there is no such thing as "re-victimization", but I see the people deriving pleasure from CP images as profiting from the act in the images, and think that should be punished. I guess when I think of someone looking at an image of the holocaust I don't imagine them to be taking pleasure in it, whereas my understanding is that this is the reason people look at CP. And I guess it's this that I find abhorrent. So I know there is no chance that the victim will know about the person viewing the picture, but it's not the harm to the victim I'm concerned about in this case, it's the gains to the person viewing the image.
I'm tempted to say that viewing CP is a victimless crime, but still a crime that ought to be punished. It seems to me like a crime against humanity, rather than against particular human beings. But as that sounds to me quasi-religious and ever so slightly insane, I guess it is the storage and distribution I am most concerned with. And the nature of images is that they must be stored somewhere to be viewed, so I guess this is the crime I see the person committing when they view the image. Perhaps if you look over the shoulder of a person viewing CP on their computer you are not committing a crime. Though I think you then have a duty to punish them for having the image on their computer, and if you don't you have committed some kind of moral failing.
Perhaps the difference between the holocaust images and the CP images is that I feel like it is important that images of the holocaust are viewed, because of the historical nature of the event - seeing the outcomes of fascism is an important lesson I think. Seeing the outcomes of an individual's sexual perversions is perhaps a lesson I don't think that needs to be learned. I guess that would be the standard response. But maybe more importantly the CP image does not show the outcomes of the act; it doesn't show the psychological damage to the child. There is no way to capture that in an image. Whereas with holocaust images we see the death which was the outcome of the Nazi ideology. Maybe there is a certain kind of truth that can be seen in images of the holocaust that I don't think can be fully captured in CP images because of the differences between the nature of crimes that are documented in them. And then also there is this feeling I have the victims of the holocaust would want us to see the images, whereas the victims of pedophiles I imagine would not want us to view the images. So I guess with the holocaust images I assume consent, and with CP I do not. Which is maybe not an assumption I am entitled to. But it's one I make in the absence of further information.
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If I may summarise it seems that the thrust of the argument in favour of decriminalising CP centres around the fact that the victim may be ignorant that firstly they are being filmed and that others are taking pleasure at their abuse.
We have also discussed and agreed it is (theoretically!) possible to download images and videos in such a way that the uploader doesn't know how many times they have been viewed - although the fact that this doesn't seem to be the way this works in practice should say something about it.
I think I would ask all of you to consider though the fact firstly that the person in question is taking pleasure at seeing an innocent person being harmed - this is what in itself makes child pornography unethical to me, though I accept a paedophile doesn't need to view CP in order to find these kind of thoughts pleasurable. The fact once again that paedophiles DO in fact view CP rather than solely fantasising should tell us something in my humble opinion.
Secondly, a child does not need to be aware that a specific person has viewed images or videos of them to become distressed. It would be enough to know that images/videos of them have been recorded and potentially shared on the internet.
I have been doing some (extremely!) cautious googling and managed to find a story of a girl who has been abused and filmed in secret by her own father:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008928541_webfreeman26m.html
When she found that the videos of her father molesting her were widely distributed on the internet she found this very distressing:
"Those images have become one of the most prolific child porn series, downloaded by countless people around the world. Kylie said she goes "ice cold" every times she thinks about what they're doing.
"They're dangerous and, even though I don't know them, they're continuing to hurt me," she said."
I do appreciate that her awareness of people downloading videos of her is vicarious and she may not know each specific time that a certain person has viewed her being abused but that does not absolve said paedophile from their responsibility not to view such material!
V.
I have no duty to prevent others from viewing images of anything. What if someone has a picture of them with a double chin leak out to the internet? Should we have task force for tracking down the people who view it? Should we send them to jail? By your logic it is just as bad to look at an embarrassing photograph of a celebrity that some paparazzi took, as it is to look at CP. I guess we should arrest everyone who reads tabloids and give them sentences equal to the sentences people receive for viewing CP? Anyway I think molestation is bad even if the victim does not remember. They are obviously not able to consent to having sex. However, there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE that they will remember someone anonymously viewing their picture! There is a difference between looking at a photograph of the holocaust and being a war criminal!
Well I agree that there is a difference between looking at a photograph of the holocaust and being a war criminal. I also don't think we should have a task force for tracking down the people who view unflattering pictures, or that people should receive the same sentences for viewing those sorts of images as they do for viewing CP. But I think I do find that kind of tabloid journalism disgusting, and the leering consumers disgusting. But my levels of disgust are much higher when it comes to people taking the same attitudes towards CP. So by my logic, yes, I think it is the same sort of thing that is going on. I guess I believe people have a right to their image. So I see it as the same right being violated. But I don't think that necessitates equal punishment, or means that there is not greater urgency to tackle CP before tabloids. Or that I would even bother to attempt to tackle tabloids - I think that they are bad, but not really enough to move me to action - probably a moral failing on my part, but there is only so much stuff I can give a crap about before I end up being a gibbering tweaky mess, which doesn't really help anyone.
I think I agree with you that there is no such thing as "re-victimization", but I see the people deriving pleasure from CP images as profiting from the act in the images, and think that should be punished. I guess when I think of someone looking at an image of the holocaust I don't imagine them to be taking pleasure in it, whereas my understanding is that this is the reason people look at CP. And I guess it's this that I find abhorrent. So I know there is no chance that the victim will know about the person viewing the picture, but it's not the harm to the victim I'm concerned about in this case, it's the gains to the person viewing the image.
I'm tempted to say that viewing CP is a victimless crime, but still a crime that ought to be punished. It seems to me like a crime against humanity, rather than against particular human beings. But as that sounds to me quasi-religious and ever so slightly insane, I guess it is the storage and distribution I am most concerned with. And the nature of images is that they must be stored somewhere to be viewed, so I guess this is the crime I see the person committing when they view the image. Perhaps if you look over the shoulder of a person viewing CP on their computer you are not committing a crime. Though I think you then have a duty to punish them for having the image on their computer, and if you don't you have committed some kind of moral failing.
Perhaps the difference between the holocaust images and the CP images is that I feel like it is important that images of the holocaust are viewed, because of the historical nature of the event - seeing the outcomes of fascism is an important lesson I think. Seeing the outcomes of an individual's sexual perversions is perhaps a lesson I don't think that needs to be learned. I guess that would be the standard response. But maybe more importantly the CP image does not show the outcomes of the act; it doesn't show the psychological damage to the child. There is no way to capture that in an image. Whereas with holocaust images we see the death which was the outcome of the Nazi ideology. Maybe there is a certain kind of truth that can be seen in images of the holocaust that I don't think can be fully captured in CP images because of the differences between the nature of crimes that are documented in them. And then also there is this feeling I have the victims of the holocaust would want us to see the images, whereas the victims of pedophiles I imagine would not want us to view the images. So I guess with the holocaust images I assume consent, and with CP I do not. Which is maybe not an assumption I am entitled to. But it's one I make in the absence of further information.
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it's a shame most of the kids get traumatized and they can't do shit about it when they grow up. some stories scream revenge....
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If I may summarise it seems that the thrust of the argument in favour of decriminalising CP centres around the fact that the victim may be ignorant that firstly they are being filmed and that others are taking pleasure at their abuse.
No that is not the thrust of the argument in any way shape or form. The thrust of the argument is, looking at pictures causes nobody harm! Banning people from looking at pictures and videos is censorship and censorship is bad, especially bad when you censor things just because you don't like the people who look at those things entirely separate of any harm being done to anyone. What is so hard to understand about this that so many of you are having so much trouble to understand the argument?
I think I would ask all of you to consider though the fact firstly that the person in question is taking pleasure at seeing an innocent person being harmed - this is what in itself makes child pornography unethical to me, though I accept a paedophile doesn't need to view CP in order to find these kind of thoughts pleasurable. The fact once again that paedophiles DO in fact view CP rather than solely fantasising should tell us something in my humble opinion.
So you think it should be illegal to take pleasure in seeing innocent people being harmed? And how is it that you don't think that this is being the fucking thought police?
Secondly, a child does not need to be aware that a specific person has viewed images or videos of them to become distressed. It would be enough to know that images/videos of them have been recorded and potentially shared on the internet.
Yes, which is great reason for keeping production of CP illegal, but a great example of why it doesn't matter if ten thousand or zero people look at images that have been uploaded to the internet. There is always the possibility that images are being viewed and that is all that matters to any potential victim, they don't know or give a fuck about the monthly bandwidth of freedom hosting.
I have been doing some (extremely!) cautious googling and managed to find a story of a girl who has been abused and filmed in secret by her own father:
Okay, first of all her father was an enormous asshole. I feel very sorry for her. Secondly, she makes a lot of money every time someone is caught with one of the videos her father took because there are laws that children in CP found on the PC of people arrested are entitled to financial compensation from those people. She is the poster child (poor use of the word maybe?) for using the legal system to collect large amounts of compensation from the people who view the CP she is in. And I am pretty okay with this! I mean, in general I am against copyright law etc, but it is an issue I am somewhat undecided on. I can by some stretch of the imagination see the CP that she is in as being her property, and see that she has the right to restrict access to it as she sees fit and sue people for copyright infringement. That is not anywhere near as absurd as SENDING PEOPLE TO PRISON FOR LOOKING AT PICTURES. CP as a civil matter you can argue to me and have a chance of convincing me, although this largely applies to copyright in general. Convincing me that people should go to prison (ie: criminal , not civil) for looking at pictures will not even happen after hell freezes over.
"They're dangerous and, even though I don't know them, they're continuing to hurt me," she said."
Well if she doesn't want to be informed every time someone downloads her images / videos I guess she could stop requesting to know about every case where they are found so that she can get compensation from everyone arrested with them. So being given the choice between knowing how popular the videos her father took are and getting court ordered compensation from everyone caught with them, she opted for the later choice. I have no doubt she is not happy about what happened and all the money in the world is not worth it to her, and I really don't mean to sound even at all cold towards her, but it is a crock of shit that people viewing images are hurting her.
I do appreciate that her awareness of people downloading videos of her is vicarious and she may not know each specific time that a certain person has viewed her being abused but that does not absolve said paedophile from their responsibility not to view such material!
She knows every time someone is arrested with her CP because they are made to pay compensation to her
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I think I agree with you that there is no such thing as "re-victimization", but I see the people deriving pleasure from CP images as profiting from the act in the images, and think that should be punished. I guess when I think of someone looking at an image of the holocaust I don't imagine them to be taking pleasure in it, whereas my understanding is that this is the reason people look at CP. And I guess it's this that I find abhorrent. So I know there is no chance that the victim will know about the person viewing the picture, but it's not the harm to the victim I'm concerned about in this case, it's the gains to the person viewing the image.
Have you never seen a nazi forum ? I wouldn't be surprised if some of them jack off to pictures of the holocaust.
Anyway I see your argument, although I disagree with it. I am always happy to see people actually HAVE an argument rather than just foaming at the mouth ranting about ass fucking pedophiles with butcher knifes and calling everyone who disagrees with them pedophiles like they are paranoid schizophrenics or something.
I am actually woken up to the light! We should ban pictures of poverty and disease and war and murder because with no demand for pictures of these things they will all go away !!! My God I can not believe that I never before saw just how powerful pictures could be 0_0
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I think I agree with you that there is no such thing as "re-victimization", but I see the people deriving pleasure from CP images as profiting from the act in the images, and think that should be punished. I guess when I think of someone looking at an image of the holocaust I don't imagine them to be taking pleasure in it, whereas my understanding is that this is the reason people look at CP. And I guess it's this that I find abhorrent. So I know there is no chance that the victim will know about the person viewing the picture, but it's not the harm to the victim I'm concerned about in this case, it's the gains to the person viewing the image.
Have you never seen a nazi forum ? I wouldn't be surprised if some of them jack off to pictures of the holocaust.
Anyway I see your argument, although I disagree with it. I am always happy to see people actually HAVE an argument rather than just foaming at the mouth ranting about ass fucking pedophiles with butcher knifes and calling everyone who disagrees with them pedophiles like they are paranoid schizophrenics or something.
I am actually woken up to the light! We should ban pictures of poverty and disease and war and murder because with no demand for pictures of these things they will all go away !!! My God I can not believe that I never before saw just how powerful pictures could be 0_0
1 x mention of the Holocaust 1 x use of the word Nazi - I respectfully invoke Godwin's Law! :-)
I don't want to form a lynch mob or rave about murdering them in any number of gruesome ways but it takes a certain mindset to take pleasure at seeing an innocent child harmed and I feel extremely comfortable in condemning any man or woman who does so. The harm that's done is to the individual themselves, their potential victims and the children in the images who know that there are pictures of them being molested on the internet.
Images of poverty, disease and war are simply not the same thing. They are taken, published and viewed for entirely different reasons.
I admit there's an extent to which harmless images might be seen in a certain context. For example a Jihadist poring over diagrams of Big Ben to look for structural weaknesses in order to fly a plane into it can hardly be said to have a harmless mindset although the picture itself is innocuous enough.
This said I'd appreciate if we could continue to discuss this in private Kmfkewm as I think it's safe to say you've voiced your thoughts and I'm a little worried about what newer users to the forum might think if they saw established members espousing such controversial opinions. If any of you are reading this, I'd encourage you to read through the whole thread and see where everyone has had a chance to voice their views.
V.
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Secondly, she makes a lot of money every time someone is caught with one of the videos her father took because there are laws that children in CP found on the PC of people arrested are entitled to financial compensation from those people. She is the poster child (poor use of the word maybe?) for using the legal system to collect large amounts of compensation from the people who view the CP she is in. And I am pretty okay with this!
You just said that money is valid compensation for emotional distress.
So what, if I butt rape you and I pay you $8,000.00 then it's OK, you're not emotionally distressed any more?
The money is meaningless, infact in my opinion it makes things worse and should be taken out of the system.
Also LOL @ the thought that criminals EVER pay compensation. Loads of my friends have been to court on drug & IT related crimes and never ever pay the court "fines" even sometime millions of dollars. It's meaningless.
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Fuck all of you, have fun knowing that in a hundred years more civilized people will look back at people with your mindset wondering how humans could be so barbaric as to want to imprison people for viewing images. I don't care what new people to SR think about my opinions, or old people on SR, I will not hold my tongue although I agree I have said everything that really needs to be said. I'm amazed nobody has locked or deleted this thread honestly, it seems anything controversial is immediately shut down. Oscar, eat a fat dick for manipulating my words go troll somewhere else. I said I am pretty okay with the fact that she gets court ordered compensation from people, not that it is okay she was molested because she was paid for it. It is just worth noting that one of the loudest proponents of the re-victimization theory for keeping CP possession illegal, is making a substantial amount of money off of people being arrested for viewing CP, and it is also worth noting that she obviously values this income more than she values not knowing how many people are downloading CP she is in. Those are simply facts, interpret them however you like.
Or, I was fucking around on the hidden wiki, looking at hitman for hire sites, and other fucked up shit, and clicked on a few links.
hey president chomo, replace hidden wiki with limewire, hitman sites with music/movies and few links with a few files and you perfectly fit the description of half of the people who are arrested with CP you fucking idiot. There is absolutely no difference between you and half of the 'sex offenders' that you want to do such horrible things to, the ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU IS THAT YOU USED TOR. So please go rush to turn your pedophile ass into the fucking police for viewing CP, they do not care how many links you clicked on. God are you fucking retarded or something? You are calling for death to people who do the same exact shit that you just did. Go fucking kill yourself then!
I can't believe so many people who would otherwise claim they are pro freedom or libertarian or anarchist would actually want to lock people up for looking at pictures, it is fucking barbaric and I have no doubt what-so-ever that in the future people will look back and wonder how humans could be so fucking stupid and cruel.
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Fuck all of you, have fun knowing that in a hundred years more civilized people will look back at people with your mindset wondering how humans could be so barbaric as to want to imprison people for viewing images. I don't care what new people to SR think about my opinions, or old people on SR, I will not hold my tongue although I agree I have said everything that really needs to be said. I amazed nobody has locked or deleted this thread honestly, it seems anything controversial is immediately shut down. Oscar, eat a fat dick for manipulating my words go troll somewhere else. I said I am pretty okay with the fact that she gets court ordered compensation from people, not that it is okay she was molested because she was paid for it. It is just worth noting that one of the loudest proponents of the re-victimization theory for keeping CP possession illegal, is making a substantial amount of money off of people being arrested for viewing CP, and it is also worth noting that she obviously values this income more than she values not knowing how many people are downloading CP she is in. Those are simply facts, interpret them however you like.
Or, I was fucking around on the hidden wiki, looking at hitman for hire sites, and other fucked up shit, and clicked on a few links.
hey president chomo, replace hidden wiki with limewire, hitman sites with music/movies and few links with a few files and you perfectly fit the description of half of the people who are arrested with CP you fucking idiot. There is absolutely no difference between you and half of the 'sex offenders' that you want to do such horrible things to, the ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU IS THAT YOU USED TOR. So please go rush to turn your pedophile ass into the fucking police for viewing CP, they do not care how many links you clicked on. God are you fucking retarded or something? You are calling for death to people who do the same exact shit that you just did. Go fucking kill yourself then!
I can't believe so many people who would otherwise claim they are pro freedom or libertarian or anarchist would actually want to lock people up for looking at pictures, it is fucking barbaric and I have no doubt what-so-ever that in the future people will look back and wonder how humans could be so fucking stupid and cruel.
You need to go study philosophy to learn how to argue coherently, I never said:
it is okay she was molested because she was paid for it.
I said: "You just said that money is valid compensation for emotional distress."
Which means that money is clearly not valid compensation for individual personal emotional distress. It has nothing to do with it being socially "OK" or not, which is a whole different matter.
The core of the issue is that looking at images of children under the age of 18 naked or in explicit situations is morally wrong because of the same reasons most houses have curtains and most women wear bra's.
If I secretly made an exact genetic clone of you with no brain so no potential in life, then murdered it, would it be murder since noone including yourself ever knew it existed? Ought you feel personally offended by that, or not?
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There's a distinct difference from clicking a link while cruising the darknet for the first time, and trolling around TOR jerking off to kiddie porn. I saw a pedobear and a kid in a bathtub and hauled ass out of there. Fuck you KM. Your philosophy is warped. Sick bastard. Since you're the one with the dissenting opinion, you're the troll. I don't think there are many here that share your views on child pornography.
do you think law enforcement will listen to you when you tell them that it is okay you clicked on links to pedo sites because you didn't jack off while doing it? I am pretty sure the "But I didn't jack off to it" defense will not work for you. Your only defense is that you were using Tor, unfortunately there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of people who were not. Thus, I am glad that people use Tor to look at CP, is my answer to the title of this thread. I think it is great that you are not going to go and be ass raped in prison Vinny! Also, it doesn't really bother me that you think me not wanting you to be ass raped in prison makes me a pedophile.
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Fuck all of you, have fun knowing that in a hundred years more civilized people will look back at people with your mindset wondering how humans could be so barbaric as to want to imprison people for viewing images. I don't care what new people to SR think about my opinions, or old people on SR, I will not hold my tongue although I agree I have said everything that really needs to be said. I amazed nobody has locked or deleted this thread honestly, it seems anything controversial is immediately shut down. Oscar, eat a fat dick for manipulating my words go troll somewhere else. I said I am pretty okay with the fact that she gets court ordered compensation from people, not that it is okay she was molested because she was paid for it. It is just worth noting that one of the loudest proponents of the re-victimization theory for keeping CP possession illegal, is making a substantial amount of money off of people being arrested for viewing CP, and it is also worth noting that she obviously values this income more than she values not knowing how many people are downloading CP she is in. Those are simply facts, interpret them however you like.
Or, I was fucking around on the hidden wiki, looking at hitman for hire sites, and other fucked up shit, and clicked on a few links.
hey president chomo, replace hidden wiki with limewire, hitman sites with music/movies and few links with a few files and you perfectly fit the description of half of the people who are arrested with CP you fucking idiot. There is absolutely no difference between you and half of the 'sex offenders' that you want to do such horrible things to, the ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU IS THAT YOU USED TOR. So please go rush to turn your pedophile ass into the fucking police for viewing CP, they do not care how many links you clicked on. God are you fucking retarded or something? You are calling for death to people who do the same exact shit that you just did. Go fucking kill yourself then!
I can't believe so many people who would otherwise claim they are pro freedom or libertarian or anarchist would actually want to lock people up for looking at pictures, it is fucking barbaric and I have no doubt what-so-ever that in the future people will look back and wonder how humans could be so fucking stupid and cruel.
You need to go study philosophy to learn how to argue coherently, I never said:
it is okay she was molested because she was paid for it.
I said: "You just said that money is valid compensation for emotional distress."
Which means that money is clearly not valid compensation for individual personal emotional distress. It has nothing to do with it being socially "OK" or not, which is a whole different matter.
The core of the issue is that looking at images of children under the age of 18 naked or in explicit situations is morally wrong because of the same reasons most houses have curtains and most women wear bra's.
If I secretly made an exact genetic clone of you with no brain so no potential in life, then murdered it, would it be murder since noone including yourself ever knew it existed? Ought you feel personally offended by that, or not?
It isn't even illegal to fuck 16 year olds in the majority of the USA, so why is it wrong to look at pictures they take of themselves flashing a mirror? Where do you even get the number 18 from? To me, as an external observer, it seems like your government has planted this number into your brain.
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“A life sentence is what we give first-degree murderers,” he said, “and possession of child pornography is not the equivalent of first-degree murder.”
Absolutely correct child pornography is not the equivalent of first-degree murder... It's worse...
I personally know poor children and people who have been affected by pedophiles, they're seriously fucked up and they fuck up the lives of many people around them, they are a huge burden on the state for their who lives as the need support with serious drug issues, alcoholism, psychological treatment, relationship issues, agoraphobia and fear of doing normal day to day activities, they can never have proper relationships etc etc all because one selfish bastard decided to touch them and take a few photos and they remember it. Believe me, children REMEMBER IT.
At least if you're murdered you're dead and that's it.
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Fuck all of you, have fun knowing that in a hundred years more civilized people will look back at people with your mindset wondering how humans could be so barbaric as to want to imprison people for viewing images. I don't care what new people to SR think about my opinions, or old people on SR, I will not hold my tongue although I agree I have said everything that really needs to be said. I'm amazed nobody has locked or deleted this thread honestly, it seems anything controversial is immediately shut down. Oscar, eat a fat dick for manipulating my words go troll somewhere else. I said I am pretty okay with the fact that she gets court ordered compensation from people, not that it is okay she was molested because she was paid for it. It is just worth noting that one of the loudest proponents of the re-victimization theory for keeping CP possession illegal, is making a substantial amount of money off of people being arrested for viewing CP, and it is also worth noting that she obviously values this income more than she values not knowing how many people are downloading CP she is in. Those are simply facts, interpret them however you like.
Or, I was fucking around on the hidden wiki, looking at hitman for hire sites, and other fucked up shit, and clicked on a few links.
hey president chomo, replace hidden wiki with limewire, hitman sites with music/movies and few links with a few files and you perfectly fit the description of half of the people who are arrested with CP you fucking idiot. There is absolutely no difference between you and half of the 'sex offenders' that you want to do such horrible things to, the ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU IS THAT YOU USED TOR. So please go rush to turn your pedophile ass into the fucking police for viewing CP, they do not care how many links you clicked on. God are you fucking retarded or something? You are calling for death to people who do the same exact shit that you just did. Go fucking kill yourself then!
I can't believe so many people who would otherwise claim they are pro freedom or libertarian or anarchist would actually want to lock people up for looking at pictures, it is fucking barbaric and I have no doubt what-so-ever that in the future people will look back and wonder how humans could be so fucking stupid and cruel.
Life Sentence for Possession of Child Pornography Spurs Debate Over Severity
By ERICA GOODE
Published: November 4, 2011
Does downloading child pornography from the Internet deserve the same criminal punishment as first-degree murder?
A circuit court judge in Florida clearly thinks so: On Thursday, he sentenced Daniel Enrique Guevara Vilca, a 26-year-old stockroom worker whose home computer was found to contain hundreds of pornographic images of children, to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
But the severity of the justice meted out to Mr. Vilca, who had no previous criminal record, has led some criminal justice experts to question whether increasingly harsh penalties delivered in cases involving the viewing of pornography really fit the crime. Had Mr. Vilca actually molested a child, they note, he might well have received a lighter sentence.
“To me, a failure to distinguish between people who look at these dirty pictures and people who commit contact offenses lacks the nuance and proportionality I think our law demands,” said Douglas Berman, a law professor at Ohio State University, who highlighted Mr. Vilca’s case on his blog, Sentencing and Law Policy.
Sexual offenses involving children enrage most Americans, and lawmakers have not hesitated to impose lengthy prison terms for offenders. In Florida, possession of child pornography is a third-degree felony, punishable by up to five years in prison. Mr. Vilca was charged with 454 counts of possession, each count representing one image found on the computer.
Steve Maresca, the assistant state attorney in the case, said that in his view, Mr. Vilca “received a sentence pursuant to the sentencing guidelines.”
“Too many people just look at this as a victimless crime, and that’s not true,” he said. “These children are victimized, and when the images are shown over and over again, they’re victimized over and over again.”
But Lee Hollander, Mr. Vilca’s lawyer, called the sentence ridiculous.
“Daniel had nothing to do with the original victimization of these people; there is no evidence that he’s ever touched anybody improperly, adult or minor; and life in prison for looking at images, even child images, is beyond comprehension,” he said.
Mr. Hollander said Mr. Vilca had consistently said he did not know the images were on his computer. He refused a plea bargain of 20 years in prison, after which the state attorney increased the charges. The sentence will be appealed, Mr. Hollander said.
Troy K. Stabenow, an assistant federal public defender in Missouri’s Western District, noted that most people assume that someone who looks at child pornography is also a child molester or will become a child molester, a view often mirrored by judges.
But a growing body of scientific research shows that this is not the case, he said. Many passive viewers of child pornography never molest children, and not all child molesters have a penchant for pornography.
“I’m not suggesting that someone who looks at child pornography should just walk,” he said. “But we ought to punish people for what they do, not for our fear.”
State and federal laws, which generally increase penalties based on the number of pornographic images, reflect the idea that acquiring child pornography requires extensive time and effort and thus is a measure of a defendant’s involvement and interest. But with the rise of the Internet, it is possible to download hundreds of images in a matter of minutes, making the size of a stash a less than reliable indicator, Mr. Stabenow and other criminal justice experts said. It is now a rare case that does not involve the possession of hundreds, or even thousands, of images.
As a result, many federal judges have issued sentences lower than those called for by federal guidelines, which add months for multiple images and other aggravating factors. And even when such sentencing enhancements are enforced, the sentences — which can sometimes be 18 or 20 years — are often well below what Mr. Vilca received. The federal guidelines, for example, recommend a minimum of 57 to 71 months in prison for possession of 600 or more images of very young children.
Paul Cassell, a former federal judge who is now a law professor at the University of Utah, said there was no question that “consumers of child pornography drive the market for the production of child pornography, and without people to consume this stuff there wouldn’t be nearly as many children being sexually abused.”
Mr. Cassell is involved in efforts to get restitution for victims of child pornography, and has filed a petition in one case with the Supreme Court. But he said that while he was not familiar with Mr. Vilca’s case and did not know what other facts might be involved, “in the abstract, a life sentence for the crime of solely possessing child pornography would seem to be excessive.”
“A life sentence is what we give first-degree murderers,” he said, “and possession of child pornography is not the equivalent of first-degree murder.”
A version of this article appeared in print on November 5, 2011, on page A9 of the New York edition with the headline: Life Sentence for Possession of Child Pornography Spurs Debate Over Severity.
Guru
Wow hundreds of images he is lucky to have gotten so many a lot of people are busted after only downloading a dozen images from public P2P networks. Some are even raided after a single image! Life sentence for CP is pretty easy to get in some places, since every image is a completely different charge if the prosecutor wants it to be. Even if you only get one year per image you are pretty fucked if they charge you with 100 counts of possession of CP for loading a single page with 100 images on it. Seems sort of strange that just clicking on one link one time can give you a life sentence, I wonder how many links vinny clicked on, it sounds like at least two.
These law enforcement / 'justice' people live in their own world of propaganda that they inflict upon themselves. They are just as disconnected from reality as pedophiles who think it is good for children to have sex. They live in a fantasy.
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He seemed rather coherent in the beginning, but now the anger and repressed pederastic rage is setting in. This is obviously some sick person trying to rationalize their own behavior, and in a way it is sad. I hope you find the strength to stop looking at pictures of little kids taking shits KM. Maybe you need to find Jesus?
Says the person who clicked on links that took him to sites with pedobear logos , pictures of naked children in bathtubs, and jailbait. I am frustrated at how hard it is turning out to be to convince you that you should not be ass raped in prison Vinny :-/
PS: We should maybe not talk about such controversial groups as the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) on SR, because that secret pedophile organization is strongly in favor of decriminalizing child porn possession and distribution.
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I think one of the main issues is that everyone thinks that they are somehow special or unique. Several people in this thread say that they have been to CP forums / image boards, many of them use what they saw as the starting point for their tirades about how people who go to CP forums / image boards are sick fucks who deserve death and/or jail. They seemingly fail to recognize that they themselves are members of the set of people that they are condemning to death and/or jail, by virtue of having gone to CP forums / image boards. But they do not see themselves as deserving death and/or jail time for some reason. So immediately we can see that these people are hypocrites who do not really believe that people should go to jail and/or be put to death for viewing CP forums / image boards, or else they would be turning themselves into the police and / or killing themselves.
Perhaps they think that it should be legal to view CP unless you enjoy doing so. This would be an entirely unenforceable law though, unless we get mind reading devices. So, them not enjoying CP would not make them exempt from being punished for viewing CP in a sane world. Also, CP will essentially be legalized if the police need proof that someone jacked off while looking at CP (vinnys argument for why it was okay that he looked at CP, after all he didn't jack off to it !!). I can not conceive of a scenario in which it would be sane to say that everyone other than vinny (or any other individual... or subset of individuals, such as those who do not jack off to CP) should be put to death and or go to jail if they view CP.
If the act of viewing CP causes a magical revictimization to occur, then vinny is guilty of revictimizing the children who he saw naked in a bathtub and should be punished for it, regardless of if he jacked off or enjoyed it or not (after all, it is the act of viewing CP that causes the revictimization to occur. Some argue that revictimization only occurs if the viewer enjoys the CP, to make an exception for law enforcement, but as law enforcement would not be able to determine if vinny or anyone else enjoyed seeing CP or not, they would need to either arrest everyone other than law enforcement who MAY have enjoyed CP or they would need to arrest nobody who views CP as they MAY NOT have enjoyed it).
The same is true for the demand for CP causing supply. Vinny obviously had some demand for CP, or he would not have clicked through the layers of disclaimers on the path to CP, and also he apparently clicked on several links as he says he saw jailbait in addition to children in bathtubs. Thus, vinny caused the bandwidth of a CP server to slightly spike, and made a record of some anonymous person requesting to load a CP site. So if the demand for CP leads to supply, vinnys actions will lead to a child being molested, and he should be punished for this. Also, if we believe the lie that 55% of people who view child pornography go on to molest children, we can conclude that vinny now has a 55% chance of molesting a child himself.
I personally think that vinny, and the other various posters who talked about how the pedophiles on the disgusting CP sites that they were browsing should be put to death, should not be punished for what they did. So I establish here that not everybody should be punished for viewing CP. Now, I think that rules should apply equal to pretty much everyone. If Vinny and the others should not be punished for what they did it strongly implies that what they did did not violate the rights of anyone. After all, we punish people who violate the rights of others, for example thieves. Now, we do not make a distinction between a thief who steals for no particular reason and a thief who steals for personal gain. We recognize that stealing is bad, regardless of the reasons for it. Life is almost always this way, things that are bad are generally always bad and things that are not bad are generally never bad. So if it is not bad for Vinny to have looked at CP, and he did not violate anyones rights in doing so, then it is this way regardless of his motivation for looking at CP. Thus, I must conclude that even if a pedophile enjoys looking at CP, it is no more wrong for them to look at CP than it is for Vinny to. After all, if a thief steals for no reason he is no less guilty of theft than a thief who steals for personal gain. Thus, I conclude that nobody should be punished for viewing child pornography, and if vinny disagrees with me then it is only logical for him to admit that he should be punished for viewing CP.
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Since most points seem to have been covered, I will just bring one rebuttal point regarding the issue of freedom. Governments have always struggled to find the line between permitting personal and individual freedom and protecting the common good. Sometimes government may believe that the common good infringes on those personal freedoms, such as with child pornography, and a government withholds that personal freedom pursuant to that belief. This is a point of contention as not everyone sees it that way. Some believe individual freedom is the more important, and that as a community we must sacrifice some common good to preserve individual liberty. My thought is that each individual has both a personal identity and an identity as part of the larger society which I will call collective freedom. Each individual must actively preserve their own individual freedom as a matter of duty. However, when a particular individual freedom becomes intertwined with others' individual freedom, it becomes chiefly a matter of collective freedom. The right to view images is an individual freedom which should not be curbed. However, the right to view images of under matured children in acts which may psychologically or physically damage these children, is a collective freedom. In other words, a man is exercising individual freedom if he is viewing images that were not detrimental to another person's individual freedom. Children are protected by law because the collective wisdom from scientists, parents, psychologists and lawmakers is such that under mature people have not developed the tools necessary to compete and interact with adults. Once they do, they can navigate our social world and make the choice to be involved in pornography. Until then, it is a damaging act of coercion and fear. In that regard, the answer to the question posed in this thread is an emphatic no.
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pretty hot topic!
If someone in the UK had sex with a consenting 15 year old girl then that makes the older party a pedophile and subject to all kinds of rules and regulations in the UK.
If that person were to jump on a plane and fly to many of the other countries in Europe, Germany being the example, then that person could legally have consenting sex with a 14year old, without being labelled a pedophile or being subject to all the sex offender red tape you would in the UK.
Then if our hypothetical pedophile really wanted, they could jump on a flight to Spain where age of consent is only age 13 as long as he does not use deceit to get his wicked ways with the young Spanish senorita.
Or if he really wanted a safe bet he could go hang out in Northern Cyprus, where it is only a misdemeanor to sleep with a girl age between 13 - 16. although if the hypothetical pedophile tried this with a young boy, sodomy laws in northern Cyprus would see our pedophile fucked in the ass(no pun intended) by the legal system, punishable with up to 5 years in jail. Now is that discrimination of the sexes or what!
All this being said, which country is correct?
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pretty hot topic!
If someone in the UK had sex with a consenting 15 year old girl then that makes the older party a pedophile and subject to all kinds of rules and regulations in the UK.
If that person were to jump on a plane and fly to many of the other countries in Europe, Germany being the example, then that person could legally have consenting sex with a 14year old, without being labelled a pedophile or being subject to all the sex offender red tape you would in the UK.
Then if our hypothetical pedophile really wanted, they could jump on a flight to Spain where age of consent is only age 13 as long as he does not use deceit to get his wicked ways with the young Spanish senorita.
Or if he really wanted a safe bet he could go hang out in Northern Cyprus, where it is only a misdemeanor to sleep with a girl age between 13 - 16. although if the hypothetical pedophile tried this with a young boy, sodomy laws in northern Cyprus would see our pedophile fucked in the ass(no pun intended) by the legal system, punishable with up to 5 years in jail. Now is that discrimination of the sexes or what!
All this being said, which country is correct?
Or he could go to the Vatican where the age of consent is 12, and actually is right on the cutoff for being considered legalized pedophilia (pedophiles are attracted to children up to 12 years old, oder than that is not considered pedophilia by anyone other than laypeople and law enforcement).
Personally, I think there is absolutely no reason to have an age of consent above 15, but I do recognize that at 14 1/2 sexual maturity is reached so pretty much every normal male would be sexually attracted to people slightly under 15. The appropriate age of consent is pretty much entirely unrelated to the right to view images though.
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I believe you would be miss informed about the age of consent in the Vatican state, from what i knew it was the same as the rest of Italy, 14 years old.
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Nope it is 12 in the Vatican. Also in Colombia, Panama, Chile and parts of Mexico.
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The Vatican does not have its own separate criminal code. Instead, in matters of criminal law, as per Article 3 of the "Law of the Source of Law" (one of the six fundamental laws adopted upon ratification of the Lateran Treaty in 1929) the Vatican State generally uses current Italian national law, as well as regional and municipal laws for Rome, as long as they do not conflict with ecclesiastical law or laws specifically promulgated by Pope for the Vatican.[84] As a result, the age of consent is 14, the same as Italy's
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Nope it is 12 in the Vatican. Also in Colombia, Panama, Chile and parts of Mexico.
The minimum age of consent in Colombia is 14 regardless of gender and/or sexual orientation. However sexual acts with children aged between 14 and 18 can be prosecuted as Estupro, under the Article 301 - Acceso carnal mediante engaño and Article 302 - Acto sexual mediante engaño if consent is obtained through "deceit" ("engaño").[9]
The age of consent of 14 is determined by Article 208 of the Colombian Penal Code, Law 599 of 2000 (source), which reads: “Article 208 – Abusive 'carnal access' of minors under 14 – He who has carnal access with a person under 14 years old, will be placed in prison for 4 (four) to 8 (eight) years”. The definition of “carnal access” (acceso carnal) is later given in Article 212, and refers basically to vaginal, anal or oral sex, but also includes the penetration of the vagina or of the anus by another part of the human body or by an object.
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Nope it is 12 in the Vatican. Also in Colombia, Panama, Chile and parts of Mexico.
n Chile, the age at which there are no restrictions for sexual activities is 18, while the minimum age of consent is 14. Limitations exist between 14 and 18 years old (Art. 362 Chilean Penal Code). Even when not clearly stated in Article 362, later on, in Article 365, homosexual activity is declared illegal with anyone under 18 years old.
There also exists in the Chilean Penal Code, a legal figure called estupro. This figure establishes some limitations to sexual contacts with children older than 14 and younger than 18 years old. The estupro legislation (Article 363) defines four situations in which sex with such a children can be declared illegal even if the minor consented to the relationship (non-consensual sex with anyone older than 14 y.o. falls under the rape legislation, Article 361; while any sexual contact with anyone under 14 y.o. falls under the statutory rape legislation, Article 362.)
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I find conflicting reports when googling for it, several sources say 12 but the Italian government claims it is the same as Italian law.
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this site lists 12 for Chile
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
but this one lists 16
http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm
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http://www.ageofconsent.com -- A legal research site. ©1998-2000
probably old information
edit: I love the first 2 lines and last line
This is not an official guide. We do not guarantee the accuracy of any of the information contained herein. Please help me keep this as correct as possible by sending any corrections that are needed as well as the SOURCE or site where we can verify the corrections. We derive our information mostly from the published laws of the various states and governments.
BUT YOU WON'T FIND A MORE ACCURATE GUIDE ON THE WEB.
I wonder if this guide was written for members of the super adventure club?!?
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http://www.ageofconsent.com -- A legal research site. ©1998-2000
probably old information
edit: I was going somewhere and had a point to make, but my sleepy stoner brain has gone and lost it...............
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The age of the child shouldn't factor in. Each culture and society has a different method of child rearing that makes a kid mindful and mature at separate ages. Furthermore, it makes kids able to handle sexual situations properly at different ages. Maybe cultures with lower ages of consent socialize their children to handle sex earlier. USA always trips about sex so the age of consent is 16 to 18 varying by state. Doesn't mean one standard should be applied to another. If it's right somewhere it doesn't mean it is right in another culture and state. Thank you.
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The age of the child shouldn't factor in. Each culture and society has a different method of child rearing that makes a kid mindful and mature at separate ages. Furthermore, it makes kids able to handle sexual situations properly at different ages. Maybe cultures with lower ages of consent socialize their children to handle sex earlier. USA always trips about sex so the age of consent is 16 to 18 varying by state. Doesn't mean one standard should be applied to another. If it's right somewhere it doesn't mean it is right in another culture and state. Thank you.
Moral relativism is more disgusting than naked teenagers , and boils down to "Enslaving blacks was not immoral when it was culturally acceptable"
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how do u even browse onion land?
i had this notion that u can only find CP if u deliberately look for it.......
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how do u even browse onion land?
i had this notion that u can only find CP if u deliberately look for it.......
This tends to be the case on darknets (although not so much on clearnet, especially if you go to 4chan), which is why it is so funny to see people who say they have been to CP sites on Tor/I2P/Freenet bitching about other people going to CP sites on Tor/I2P/Freenet. But OMGZ of course it is a special case for them, because they didn't jack off to it and it was only that one time and only for a minute and they only clicked a few links and and and fuck you kmfkewm you are a dirty pedophile and I hope all pedophiles like you die a painful death and burn in hell! These people would be quick to condemn someone to death for doing exactly what they did, if the someone else were ever to be busted and a nice news article posted along the lines of "Pedophile busted visiting CP site on Tor!", and they would laugh at his claims of not jacking off, only doing it one time, etc and call for him to be castrated and shot in the back of the head. Scary as it is to think that humans would want to do that to someone for looking at a picture, the more scary thing is that they can not see themselves in that situation when the only thing preventing it from happening to them is the network that they are condemning for supporting pedophiles.
Here is a little hint. If you think "looking at CP is bad and should be illegal" and "child molestation is bad and should be illegal" and also think saying "I went to a CP site, but only once, and I only clicked a few links, and I didn't jack off or enjoy it, and it was only for a minute before I got the fuck out of there!" makes the action of looking at CP morally justifiable, but saying "I molested a child, but only once, and I only touched them a few times, and I didn't cum or enjoy it, and it was only for a minute before I got the fuck out of there!" doesn't make molestation morally justifiable, then maybe you need to reconsider some of your positions (I will let you pick!), because there appears to be some inconsistency in your sense of morality.
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The age of the child shouldn't factor in. Each culture and society has a different method of child rearing that makes a kid mindful and mature at separate ages. Furthermore, it makes kids able to handle sexual situations properly at different ages. Maybe cultures with lower ages of consent socialize their children to handle sex earlier. USA always trips about sex so the age of consent is 16 to 18 varying by state. Doesn't mean one standard should be applied to another. If it's right somewhere it doesn't mean it is right in another culture and state. Thank you.
Moral relativism is more disgusting than naked teenagers , and boils down to "Enslaving blacks was not immoral when it was culturally acceptable"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that because there have been state sanctioned atrocities in the past we should now legally permit other state sanctioned atrocities to avoid moral relativism within different countries? Yes governments have institutionalized oppressions of freedom, which child porn is also, and that is not an excuse for doing it today. Governments should protect the people from their own fervor. Read my earlier post in this thread too. Thanks for your thoughts though :)
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The age of the child shouldn't factor in. Each culture and society has a different method of child rearing that makes a kid mindful and mature at separate ages. Furthermore, it makes kids able to handle sexual situations properly at different ages. Maybe cultures with lower ages of consent socialize their children to handle sex earlier. USA always trips about sex so the age of consent is 16 to 18 varying by state. Doesn't mean one standard should be applied to another. If it's right somewhere it doesn't mean it is right in another culture and state. Thank you.
Moral relativism is more disgusting than naked teenagers , and boils down to "Enslaving blacks was not immoral when it was culturally acceptable"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that because there have been state sanctioned atrocities in the past we should now legally permit other state sanctioned atrocities to avoid moral relativism within different countries? Yes governments have institutionalized oppressions of freedom, which child porn is also, and that is not an excuse for doing it today. Governments should protect the people from their own fervor. Read my earlier post in this thread too. Thanks for your thoughts though :)
It is moral relativism to say that it is okay to have sex with people of a certain age in one location but not in another. Moral relativism is the belief that morality is determined by culture, and it also means that it was not immoral to enslave blacks when it took place but would be immoral to do so today. The only thing that government should do is cease to exist.
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YEAH, KM! Why can't the US be more like Mexico, Colombia, the Vatican, or that eastern European country that legalized possession of child porn?!?! ;P (ABSURDLY SARCASTIC)
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YEAH, KM! Why can't the US be more like Mexico, Colombia, the Vatican, or that eastern European country that legalized possession of child porn?!?! ;P (ABSURDLY SARCASTIC)
The Czech Republic has indeed legalized CP possession, you would probably like it in CZ as it is also the most libertarian country I know of when it comes to drug use. A shame that so many people are only selfishly libertarian instead of principled libertarian :-/
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I think child porn is disgusting and vile and the people being caught do it should get their dicks chopped off. The poor young children that have to go through these things will be scarred for the rest of their lives. I read an article the other day of a father caught one of his employees molesting his 8 year old daughter... he ran out side and beat the shit out of the guy until he died. I would have done the same exact thing to that pos. I don't get how someone could do that to a child, they are helpless and innocent I don't understand how people get off on this shit it's sick.
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or perhaps Im not a libertarian at all because I live in reality and not on the interweb...
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I invented kiddie porn
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If i ever find out where i pedophile lives ill kill them no questions asked and the best part is id have no connection to them so the murder would never be solved
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However warped his thinking, you have to strangely respect the man's resolve. Still, fucked up world view. Some sort of weird anarchy-libertarian combination.
Agorism
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If i ever find out where i pedophile lives ill kill them no questions asked and the best part is id have no connection to them so the murder would never be solved
There's an app for that...
(for real, if you live in the US...I can't remember what it's called, but it maps all the people on the sex offenders register surrounding you. It seems terribly inaccurate though so I'm not actually advocating you use it, and/or go around killing people!)
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one could perhaps locate kmfkewm but finding his general area, then looking at the sex offender registry in his area and cross referencing
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wtf? everybody wants your head kmfkewm! lol
I agree with a lot of things you said. I don't think that looking at CP should be illegal. I don't thing looking at whatever should be illegal. The problem is that not being illegal creates a huge market for that and so a lot of kids will suffer IRL because there are people profiting from it. And i'm 100% against molesting children. On the other hand making it illegal does not improve the situation. Just like drugs. I think we have to evolve has human beings and pass the legal/illegal cowboy point of view.
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This problem exists all over the place; the fact that Tor is used to help distribute CP is not a negative consequence of the technology, it is a negative consequence of freedom itself. We all agree that people should be free from invasions of privacy by default, but we can't expect that everyone will continue to act so virtuously when the surveillance cameras stop recording. It is the same problem with all technologies - if you are in favour of guns for example, then it is an unfortunate consequence that you will have higher rates of gun crime. If you are in favour of computers, then you will have higher rates of intellectual property infringement. If you are in favour of any technology, it can be used for either good or nefarious ends - the choice belongs to the user only.
It is a sorry consequence that by giving citizens greater freedoms, you must give those same freedoms to those who would use them for less than reputable ends.. but that is life.
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I invented kiddie porn
How old were you at the time ?:-D
V.
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I am going to be starting a weekly live web-cast really soon called "Loving the Kiddie Lover's Back" where I get pedo's to dress up like the cute little kids they like to molest... force feed them endless cock and finish with a gang bang anal raping scene that will leave them crippled for life. Bust up every motherfucking finger so they won't ever be able to look at CP again. Shit: I get a woody just thinking about it. ha ha. :) :)
Yeah..yeah..."anarchy".."freedom" "cyberpunk" whatever. Call me old-fashioned.. but I think child molesters are lowlife scum and should be treated as such. Sun-light is the best disinfectant.
But then again..perhaps actually having children or being an uncle or aunt just might make you a little "over protective" of them and a little "intolerant" towards their exploitation.
Duhhh....gee.. ya figure?
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wtf? everybody wants your head kmfkewm! lol
I agree with a lot of things you said. I don't think that looking at CP should be illegal. I don't thing looking at whatever should be illegal. The problem is that not being illegal creates a huge market for that and so a lot of kids will suffer IRL because there are people profiting from it. And i'm 100% against molesting children. On the other hand making it illegal does not improve the situation. Just like drugs. I think we have to evolve has human beings and pass the legal/illegal cowboy point of view.
Essentially nobody is really profiting from CP anymore. Maybe in the early 2000s that was true to an extent, some softcore studios in Eastern Europe were making a few million dollars for selling naked pictures of several thousand kids. But they were all shut down. A year or two ago every single one of the for profit CP sites that were known to the united states law enforcement community were shut down. If anyone is still actually making profit from CP, it would be producers in limited membership underground networks.
Today the majority of damage from the demand for CP comes from a distribution structure that requires participants to submit group unique material every X period of time, or have their membership revoked. This is bad as these groups quickly exhaust the supply of non-original material, and effectively start revoking the membership of those who do not molest children to meet the requirements of maintaining membership and furthering their group collection. This is very likely to encourage their members to start molesting children once they are incapable of finding premade CP that is not part of the group collection.
The funny thing is that if CP possession were legal, but not paying for it or producing it....both of these distribution structures would crumble (well, for financial profit is already essentially mythical in modern times).
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so what, plenty of people involved in the drug scene keep up with developments in the cp scene. they are after all law enforcement's whipping boys and it behooves us to study the strategies used against them.
study, yes, but the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.
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You sound like an unabridged child pornography expert, like a child porn hipster, "I was jerking of to kids on VHS, before it was cool!"
+1 for the expression "child porn hipster". Classic. :)
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You sound like an unabridged child pornography expert, like a child porn hipster, "I was jerking of to kids on VHS, before it was cool!"
Meh, I know about everything relating to any sort of organized internet crime. The history of the online CP scene is fascinating and has many similarities to the online drug scene. In fact, the most advanced groups in their community have generally been some steps ahead of us, there were massive open to the public CP trading sites on Tor several years prior to the drug scene reaching that level of publicity and security.
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You sound like an unabridged child pornography expert, like a child porn hipster, "I was jerking of to kids on VHS, before it was cool!"
Isn't it generally good to know a lot about things before you come to conclusions regarding them? Let's see, fuck the studies, fuck knowing anything about it, immediately jump to conclusions based on no knowledge and active denial of science. Sounds like you will have the best ideas regarding how to deal with CP. I am somewhat of an expert regarding the distribution of CP and structure of CP trafficking networks, but it is from study of distribution group countermeasures and the feds measures against them, not jacking off to kids on VHS :). I also know a lot about various credit card fraud groups / techniques / history , hacker groups / techniques / history, drug trafficking groups / techniques / history, militant groups / techniques / history, terrorist groups / techniques / history, various extremist groups / techniques / history, activist groups / techniques / history, arms smuggling groups / techniques / history.....hell I could even hold my own in a conversation about jewelry thieves groups / techniques / history and a little bit about gem smugglers.
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I can tell you a fair amount about hanging drywall, history, and have some good experience with baked goods but it doesn't mean I should be mingling with pederastsand preaching the merits of child fucking.
Let me know when you find a technique from the dry walling community that will assist you in avoiding the feds. Also, I don't preach the merits of child fucking...in fact I am strongly against child fucking. You on the other hand are apparently pro child fucking, as you browsed CP while holding the belief that people who browse CP lead to children being fucked.
Also there is no requirement to mingle with pedophiles to learn about them, there are dozens of case studies and bits of information in law enforcement reports.
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Today the majority of damage from the demand for CP comes from a distribution structure that requires participants to submit group unique material every X period of time, or have their membership revoked. This is bad as these groups quickly exhaust the supply of non-original material, and effectively start revoking the membership of those who do not molest children to meet the requirements of maintaining membership and furthering their group collection. This is very likely to encourage their members to start molesting children once they are incapable of finding premade CP that is not part of the group collection.
I read about this and I agree, the demand that people provide their own pictures in order to have continued access to the material seems like the easiest and quickest way for the problem to be proliferated.
Also, I want to say I think it's unfair that people are calling kmfkewm a kiddy fucker...that's clearly not what s/he's said and some of the points they've made are very valid and I agree with some of them!
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Perhaps they think that it should be legal to view CP unless you enjoy doing so. This would be an entirely unenforceable law though, unless we get mind reading devices. So, them not enjoying CP would not make them exempt from being punished for viewing CP in a sane world. Also, CP will essentially be legalized if the police need proof that someone jacked off while looking at CP (vinnys argument for why it was okay that he looked at CP, after all he didn't jack off to it !!). I can not conceive of a scenario in which it would be sane to say that everyone other than vinny (or any other individual... or subset of individuals, such as those who do not jack off to CP) should be put to death and or go to jail if they view CP.
If the act of viewing CP causes a magical revictimization to occur, then vinny is guilty of revictimizing the children who he saw naked in a bathtub and should be punished for it, regardless of if he jacked off or enjoyed it or not (after all, it is the act of viewing CP that causes the revictimization to occur. Some argue that revictimization only occurs if the viewer enjoys the CP, to make an exception for law enforcement, but as law enforcement would not be able to determine if vinny or anyone else enjoyed seeing CP or not, they would need to either arrest everyone other than law enforcement who MAY have enjoyed CP or they would need to arrest nobody who views CP as they MAY NOT have enjoyed it).
The same is true for the demand for CP causing supply. Vinny obviously had some demand for CP, or he would not have clicked through the layers of disclaimers on the path to CP, and also he apparently clicked on several links as he says he saw jailbait in addition to children in bathtubs. Thus, vinny caused the bandwidth of a CP server to slightly spike, and made a record of some anonymous person requesting to load a CP site. So if the demand for CP leads to supply, vinnys actions will lead to a child being molested, and he should be punished for this. Also, if we believe the lie that 55% of people who view child pornography go on to molest children, we can conclude that vinny now has a 55% chance of molesting a child himself.
I personally think that vinny, and the other various posters who talked about how the pedophiles on the disgusting CP sites that they were browsing should be put to death, should not be punished for what they did. So I establish here that not everybody should be punished for viewing CP. Now, I think that rules should apply equal to pretty much everyone. If Vinny and the others should not be punished for what they did it strongly implies that what they did did not violate the rights of anyone. After all, we punish people who violate the rights of others, for example thieves. Now, we do not make a distinction between a thief who steals for no particular reason and a thief who steals for personal gain. We recognize that stealing is bad, regardless of the reasons for it. Life is almost always this way, things that are bad are generally always bad and things that are not bad are generally never bad. So if it is not bad for Vinny to have looked at CP, and he did not violate anyones rights in doing so, then it is this way regardless of his motivation for looking at CP. Thus, I must conclude that even if a pedophile enjoys looking at CP, it is no more wrong for them to look at CP than it is for Vinny to. After all, if a thief steals for no reason he is no less guilty of theft than a thief who steals for personal gain. Thus, I conclude that nobody should be punished for viewing child pornography, and if vinny disagrees with me then it is only logical for him to admit that he should be punished for viewing CP.
Not really kept up with this thread since I last posted, so sorry for going back so far, and it looks like the bit I've quoted has some relevance to my view.
So I think I do have a problem with people viewing CP images - but any of us who are advocating punishing people for viewing CP get put in the position where whoever is administering the punishment presumably has to view the images to compile the evidence. So, I appeal to the fact that these people are not viewing the images with the same intentions as pedophiles - and I think that a person's intentions are morally relevant, although I agree that working out what a person's intentions are is a (possibly intractable) problem. So when it comes to actually punishing people for viewing images there is a problem of how to prove a case. I guess "beyond reasonable doubt" is ok for me, but I suppose this can lead to wrongful convictions. Would I prefer no convictions to some correct and some incorrect decisions? I'm not sure, depends on the severity of punishment - but I think I lean towards the side of trusting the jury. Though I agree the punishment should not be of the severity of punishments for murder, or even the severity of the punishment for carrying out the acts in the images. Really I'm most interested in the moral rather than the legal side of things, though obviously the two are intertwined and it is a lot easier to make a moral case and then just ignore all the problems of implementation. I guess I don't accept that the law is unenforceable, I think that it is imperfectly enforceable, and I am not entirely uncomfortable with imperfectly enforced law.
More strongly, I have a problem with the storage and distribution of images. I think that storing and distributing CP images does violate the rights of the person in the photo, as I think that they have a right not to have people see images of them being abused. So I guess I think that when vinny accesses CP images, if he does so in a way that leads them to be stored on his computer for a period of time, then he has done something criminal and should be punished for it. I think the distinction I would is not between stealing for personal gain/stealing for no reason, but doing something deliberately and doing something by accident - and we do make a distinction between murder, manslaughter and so on. So I agree that a person who has accidentally downloaded CP through limewire or whatever does not deserve the same sort of punishment as someone who is browsing through CP forums past all the warnings and so on. If vinny has been deliberately accessing CP, whether he was doing it for pleasure or out of simple curiosity, I think he should be punished for it, though I do think viewing the images for pleasure is a greater crime. There are cases (such as the fairly high-profile case of the actor Chris Langham) where, as I understand it, people who have previously been abused have accessed CP and made the defense that they had wanted essentially to see into the world of their tormenters or something. I have some sympathy for this defense. I guess I think that each case is different and so sentencing should reflect this - I think there are such things as mitigating and aggravating circumstances.
I think I am also of the view that a person has a duty to destroy any CP images that they come across, if it is within their power to do so. So I guess I see the storage of the images as a moral failing in the sense of a failure to fulfill one's duty. Although I guess there is then an argument to be made that if there is a demand for these images, and people keep destroying the ones already in existence, more are going to be produced to keep up supply. So there is a conflict between what I think is right and what I think is pragmatic.
When it comes to people wanking over images of the holocaust, yeah I think that is pretty fucked up. I think I already claimed that I thought holocaust images were of historical import, whereas CP images are not, which is why I don't think those images ought to be destroyed; why I think they ought to be preserved. I do have a problem with people wanking to images of the holocaust. I don't think it causes anyone any harm other than the person doing the wanking, but then I think the same is true of someone wanking to CP images. I don't think viewing the image causes anyone any harm except the person who views it - unless the victim in the image is aware of it. But I think in both cases it is an illegitimate source of pleasure; I don't think people have a right to seek pleasure in that way, indeed I think they have a duty/obligation not to do so out of something like respect for humanity. I guess I think that such acts degrade humanity in a way; they are disrespectful, and I think people deserve to be shown about as much respect from others as they show others. So do I think people should be punished for jacking it to pictures of the holocaust? Yes, probably. How the hell are we going to enforce that? No idea. Do I care? Not really, although I probably should. Another moral failure on my part I guess.
Anyway, think this is an interesting debate, would prefer it if people didn't waste energy on calling kmfkewm a child rapist. CP is certainly a complicated as well as an emotive issue, so it's good to have a space where I can bounce ideas around and try and work out whether what I think stands up to scrutiny/is insane.
One thing I would be interested in is how property/ownership are conceived by agorists. I find the idea of "possession" as a crime to be a bit of a weird one...
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I don't like being brought up in this conversation because I clicked open new tab on eight or so fucked up websites on the hidden wiki. There is no data storage going on here, I wipe the discs on my computer a few times a month. What I saw was the hidden wiki for the first time, and clicked on some things. I also clicked on the dead animal fuckers site, the mercenary for hire site, and others. I admitted to the mistake, and it was disturbing to say the least, hence me being overly aggressive in stating CP offenders are fucked in the head, and those advocating CP should open a pedo site once, and see a sad-faced child with a penis coming toward him/her, with a fucked up comment section full of nasty pedophiles getting their rocks off..
Sick bastards.
Every time you open a tab with images you are storing those images in at least your computers volatile memory, most likely traces of them are left on your hard drive as well. The simple fact of the matter is that what you did is not at all different from what a very substantial number of people arrested with CP did to get busted, they saw some fucked up sounding file names on limewire downloaded a few of them out of curiosity, deleted them and then six months later were raided and forensics people recovered the deleted images. The only real difference between you and them is the fact that you used Tor so you will not be raided or have your computer analyzed. When you call for fucked up things to happen to these people, you are calling for fucked up things to happen to yourself. Why do you think it is okay for you to load pedo sites once and admit to your mistake but if someone else does it you literally want their balls? So fucking hypocritical. Opening a pedo site once on the clearnet to see a sad faced child with a penis coming toward him/her will end up with you being ass fucked by Bubba, and you seem to be very happy about this for some reason. I am left to conclude that your secret fantasy is not pedophilia but rather being raped in the ass in prison.
Further, as I already said, you can not reasonably claim that an action is bad or good based on the emotional state it creates in the person committing it. Law enforcement are allowed to browse and trade in CP to bust other people browsing and trading in CP, but I can't recall a law enforcement operation where they molested children to bust other people molesting children. The idea that someone can have an immoral or illegal emotion is fucking absurd, and I immediately write off anyone who thinks this way as being mentally defective. Solely *actions* can be immoral (ie: murder is immoral as an action, not enjoying murdering someone does not make it moral) and solely *actions* should be illegal, and morality and legality should be *universal*. It is insanity to argue that if an action should be considered illegal or not should rely on the emotional state created in the person committing the action.
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How the hell are we going to enforce that? No idea
How about we make pictures of the holocaust illegal and arrest people who possess them on the grounds that they may have derived pleasure from a crime committed by someone else? Allow me to be the first to offer my services in tracking down such vicious war criminals before they revictimize the victims of the holocaust, for the meager amount of one billion dollars I will provide many thousands of IP addresses belonging to these suspected war criminals.
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Some of them don't even try to hide their monstrosity... reading things like "yeah fuck that 4 year olds ass up and rip her apart"
It's fucking unconscionable. People like that just need to be put to death.
Did I just read that quote right? I feel sick
Bring back Chinese water torture, the rack, iron maidens and compulsory castration .....
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Pedophiles should be put out of their misery because they are sick from birth nobody can change how their brain is wired. Theyre attracted to children the way im attracted to womean or how a gay man is attracted to another man. A gay man is also born gay because their brain is wired differently than a straight mans brain...because the majority of the population is straight you could say that gay men are also abnormal from birth....... but being gay dosent hurt anybody at all so theres no problem in being gay. Thats how i look at it...I hope nobody that is gay gets offended by this comparison because thats not my intention at all im just comparing the two so I can make the point that abnormality's are fine as long as they dont hurt anybody else.
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Guys, considering you can't sell CP or items that can harm people on SR, I think this thread should be closed. I like trolling, and this has undoubtedly become a witch burning and flame war. I don't think there are any actually pedophiles posting, just those with different ideals, but talking about it only brings out the worst in people, like religion or politics, it is a touchy subject.
Agreed 100%. Like the late Rodney King said " Why can't we all just get along?".
I didn't come here for any kind of porn.
I ain't here to flame (unless a vendor fucks me over)
I am strictly here to get fucked up on good dope.
Any suggestions? :) :) :)