Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: usernamealreadyinuse on May 16, 2012, 08:13 pm
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This is a security question, but not really to do with SR, just in general. Bit old news but the Government are trying to make it legal they can have access to all our comms - internet browsing, text messages etc (Im well aware that for some of our citizens this already happens). So when this comes in will the anonymity of using tor disappear?
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Hi mate,
I saw Theresa May's announcement about this on the Home Office website a while ago. Firstly it's important to bear in mind that this is not nearly as Orwellian as everyone is making out - calls and text messages will be logged but the content won't be recorded in the absence of a court order (at least in theory!).
Onion routing (which Tor uses) is specifically designed to resist surveillance in this way.
It is quite a trivial thing for anyone with a modicum of knowledge about computers to know you're running Tor - the data packets are fairly unmistakeable for a very important reason - they're encrypted.
As such if you're using Tor to access a hidden service (i.e a website with a .onion extension) then it's virtually impossible for the filth to prove you've visited the site through analysing your data traffic alone. (It is possible to "fingerprint" encrypted data to identify the site you might be visiting but I doubt this would stand up in court - all opinions on this are welcome of course).
Your only real worry needs to be for your clearnet browsing activites obviously and also for any non .onion sites you access via Tor which don't use SSL (i.e begin with https:// rather than http://) - obviously Silk Road, Tor mail and so forth aren't amongst these.
Of course you should still take the precaution of encrypting your operating system with a secure password but all anyone spying on your data traffic could tell is that you use Tor, not what information you're sending/receiving.
V.
This is a security question, but not really to do with SR, just in general. Bit old news but the Government are trying to make it legal they can have access to all our comms - internet browsing, text messages etc (Im well aware that for some of our citizens this already happens). So when this comes in will the anonymity of using tor disappear?
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Encrypted information remains encrypted regardless of whether the authorities award themselves the right to "listen in" to it.
TOR use will remain as secure after the law passes as it was beforehand.
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Hi mate,
I saw Theresa May's announcement about this on the Home Office website a while ago. Firstly it's important to bear in mind that this is not nearly as Orwellian as everyone is making out - calls and text messages will be logged but the content won't be recorded in the absence of a court order (at least in theory!).
Onion routing (which Tor uses) is specifically designed to resist surveillance in this way.
It is quite a trivial thing for anyone with a modicum of knowledge about computers to know you're running Tor - the data packets are fairly unmistakeable for a very important reason - they're encrypted.
As such if you're using Tor to access a hidden service (i.e a website with a .onion extension) then it's virtually impossible for the filth to prove you've visited the site through analysing your data traffic alone. (It is possible to "fingerprint" encrypted data to identify the site you might be visiting but I doubt this would stand up in court - all opinions on this are welcome of course).
Your only real worry needs to be for your clearnet browsing activites obviously and also for any non .onion sites you access via Tor which don't use SSL (i.e begin with https:// rather than http://) - obviously Silk Road, Tor mail and so forth aren't amongst these.
Of course you should still take the precaution of encrypting your operating system with a secure password but all anyone spying on your data traffic could tell is that you use Tor, not what information you're sending/receiving.
V.
This is a security question, but not really to do with SR, just in general. Bit old news but the Government are trying to make it legal they can have access to all our comms - internet browsing, text messages etc (Im well aware that for some of our citizens this already happens). So when this comes in will the anonymity of using tor disappear?
Once again, thank you.
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Firstly it's important to bear in mind that this is not nearly as Orwellian as everyone is making out - calls and text messages will be logged but the content won't be recorded in the absence of a court order (at least in theory!).
Yer but no but..... ;D The bigger Orwellian picture is the direction in which we are slowly and steadily creeping, this bill is a firm step in that direction. Simple communication logs sound wonderfully benign right now (after all, its helps us catch 'the terrorists'/bogeyman) but for one, you can count on the fact that this system WILL (statistically speaking) be abused at some point, and to the detriment of some poor innocent sucker. Government monitoring who i call or email day in day out and storing that information indefinitely is alarming to put it mildly.
All these soft little benign changes when amalgamated may add up to a malignant government that can micro manage the behavior of every citizen in order to benefit whatever private entity has the most cash to 'wine and dine' (bribe) politicians. That's why its important to get pissed off and kick up a stink about every inch 'they' slither forward.
20 years from now those logs may be used in your very own country by a fascist dictator (stick with me) to detain and torture you (or anyone) because you had a school buddy who turned out to be the contemporary definition of a 'terrorist' ... we just don't know what the future holds, so why be slack about our security now? Fight for every inch IMO.
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Well said BanWork, I wish we had a few more people like you in the Lib Dems who are more willing to campaign...!
Having said this, I am not sure we can count on public support to maintain our privacy as we deal with concepts that most of them have trouble grasping ; even the fundamentals of Public Key Cryptography can take a lay person hours to grasp, so you see our problem!
At the risk of sounding paranoid, in order to operate safely we must assume as you say that Big Brother is very much here and is analysing the content of our telephone calls / clear net e-mails / SMS - the simple solution is to stop using them and make sure we Torify our connections and use GPG to encode any sensitive messages/e-mails!
V.
Firstly it's important to bear in mind that this is not nearly as Orwellian as everyone is making out - calls and text messages will be logged but the content won't be recorded in the absence of a court order (at least in theory!).
Yer but no but..... ;D The bigger Orwellian picture is the direction in which we are slowly and steadily creeping, this bill is a firm step in that direction. Simple communication logs sound wonderfully benign right now (after all, its helps us catch 'the terrorists'/bogeyman) but for one, you can count on the fact that this system WILL (statistically speaking) be abused at some point, and to the detriment of some poor innocent sucker. Government monitoring who i call or email day in day out and storing that information indefinitely is alarming to put it mildly.
All these soft little benign changes when amalgamated may add up to a malignant government that can micro manage the behavior of every citizen in order to benefit whatever private entity has the most cash to 'wine and dine' (bribe) politicians. That's why its important to get pissed off and kick up a stink about every inch 'they' slither forward.
20 years from now those logs may be used in your very own country by a fascist dictator (stick with me) to detain and torture you (or anyone) because you had a school buddy who turned out to be the contemporary definition of a 'terrorist' ... we just don't know what the future holds, so why be slack about our security now? Fight for every inch IMO.
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The worrying thing is that it's only a few steps after this that Theresa May is talking some shit about how "we need to install monitoring software on all computers to keep track of what people are doing. data will only be accessed with a court order".
Seriously, you let this shit in once, and it evolves. And then you have people saying "for normal internet users there is nothing to fear, you won't even notice the software, it only comes into play when we suspect people are doing illegal activities".
And the politicians will be talking shit about "for ordinary, working members of society..." And that's the shit that really pisses me off, because those same ordinary members of society love alcohol and cigs, and are quite within their rights to.. but I love fucking coke and mdma, and I'm sick of being treated like a freak for having different tastes.
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Hi Kappacino,
I'm not sure we need worry about monitoring software being put on our own machines but this is certainly the status quo for public terminals in schools/libraries which is a worry.
I was very concerned about the Digital Economy Act which allowed copyright holders to have websites unilaterally blocked (in much the same way SOPA/ACTA would have woried) all in the name of protecting IP. The "three strikes and you're out" policy of cutting off internet access to repeat infringers also would make it difficult for organisations like libraries to offer internet access to poorer people who cannot afford their own computers.
Of course for people like us, as I said it's not a real concern. Robust encryption combined with using Tor hidden services means that although it may be possible for your ISP to tell your connection is encrypted, it would be near impossible for them to prove through traffic analysis alone that you had accessed SR for instance.
This highlights the futility of this kind of legislation - innocent people find their freedom of expression is curtailed while for criminals it's business as usual!
V.
The worrying thing is that it's only a few steps after this that Theresa May is talking some shit about how "we need to install monitoring software on all computers to keep track of what people are doing. data will only be accessed with a court order".
Seriously, you let this shit in once, and it evolves. And then you have people saying "for normal internet users there is nothing to fear, you won't even notice the software, it only comes into play when we suspect people are doing illegal activities".
And the politicians will be talking shit about "for ordinary, working members of society..." And that's the shit that really pisses me off, because those same ordinary members of society love alcohol and cigs, and are quite within their rights to.. but I love fucking coke and mdma, and I'm sick of being treated like a freak for having different tastes.
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(contains humor so if you laugh donate a bit coin to a mod!)
Sadly people will sacrifice freedom for security and the modern trend is to have every aspect of our life scrutinized.
Facebook is a classic example of information that in the past needed an army of spies to gather just 0.1% of.
We are sleepwalking towards tyranny as others have said.
And people using tor are seen as an enemy of the state in many nations.
In fact people use Tor to speak out on issues that if said in public would get them killed.
So whilst some here think Tor is just for potheads to buy some good hash please bear in mind some people's lives depend on being able to speak out in an anonymous manner.
100 years ago in the West a man could be jailed if he had sex with another man. Even consentual sex between adults over 21.
Right now we live in an age which will be seen in 100 years as the age when people who took drugs were jailed.
It will seem silly to future generations.
They will look at a time capsule of SR and marvel at people being worried over using drugs.
Or we will all go insanely religious and kill each other for just jerking off over a picture of some vampire chick.
In reality vampires are nasty horrible cold blooded dead people so getting laid would be creepy really. Plus - mostly you will be sucked dry and won't be allowed to be a vampire yourself. All this vampire obsession is wrong. Unless your on coke and your woman wants to play a little bit.
But the government won't even let that be.
Even though half the government are either on drugs or have kids who are having a few lines, dropping a few pills and smoking the bud and hash that is being smoked in every street in the UK tonight and every night.
In 50 years we will have all manner of 'nano spy' machines. The military already have plans to have insect drones. Maybe it will make war easier. We launch a inter continental mosquito with a lethal poison and sting Mr Dictator. Job done. Troops can catch up with studying porn and experimenting with drugs and alcohol and catching STDs with 1 in 20 actually getting it off a 'ladyboy'.
I'm sure the government will use it wisely! ::)
Enjoy yourself its later than you think!
Hitler would have today's population eating out of his hand.
In fact we seem to have Hitlers all over the place - a few have been killed of late but other Hitlers replace them - actually in the case of Libya its the most insane of the insane who now have the right to rule the lives of one and all. I think someone there even looking at Western news would need Tor to access it because the new Hitler has the local and national media and old men with beards want to murder young men for getting a hard on or young women for showing enough leg.
A world full of Hitlers!
anyway I have a cunning plan which is to advertise a nuclear bomb for sale on the armoury. A tactical Russian battlefield nuclear bomb - my uncle found it along with some opium in Iraq in one of Saddams palaces. Its in good condition. Not pressed any buttons but my aunty who I left the device with lost her hair and got leukemia as she used it as a foot rest. Its got Russian lettering on it and I'd say that the radioactive material alone would be worth a fortune! But this is the real thing. Russians are good at making these things. They made a few hundred thinking that they could sneak about and blow up a few things in the Cold War. So this is a cold war device and I'd be asking at least 1,000,000 bitcoins which is cheap. I'm looking for half upfront - and the buyer collects!
I will do a knock down price of 250,000 BTC to the security services. To help make the world a safer place. Or we can cut a deal and I can lure some customers in so you can see why they want this device. Lets say I get 10,000 BTC per terrorist.
Then again English terrorists have not got any money. the Irish would have bough this but they don't need it now. The Israelis I would sell to them because if I sold it to Muslims I'd be hunted down! Being half Jewish I'd be caught as I keep telling everyone in the pub that I'll nuke Palestine or Iran. When I get drunk I boast about my nuclear device but they think I'm mad. Well fuck them. My therapist says I'm doing great since my last panic attack. I actually panicked and pushed my mother in law off a canal barge. I had drank 14 cans of Stella but felt fine. I'm a trustworthy guy - never robbed off a cell mate ever and my crack habit is a lot better now. So if you want to make the deal of a lifetime - maybe your God is telling yo to KILL KILL KILL and lets face it most terrorists don't really kill a lot of people. So your God would be annoyed and send you to HELL if you never at least tried to bring world peace and harmony with some small tactical nuclear explosion. We are talking more a few dozen city blocks not an entire state. Radiation would be very low - just a few states or a few hundred square miles.
You could hold some bank to ransom!
Imagine the look on your ex's face!
Or if your some real loser who needs the ego boost of going down in history - then you could be like THE serial killer of all serial killers! You would have books, movies, plays, even schools would have you in history! Like Nero or Caesar only just some loser with a nuke!
And special offer for anyone in Canada who lives near Tony that coke vendor and H vendor who screwed us up the ass without lube! Nuking him would be an act of ultimate 'flaming'. A Flame war of all flame wars.
So - I got the goods and will become a seller on the armory and become rich!
for years I just kept this 'heirloom' just as many keep an old hand grenade or old service revolver.. I was always a peaceful guy but selling this would make me a nuclear free guy and I want to be that man.
So, if you want some good old nuclear action, I be your man!
Any offers here.
Or are you some kind of dick-less wimp who gets all wishy washy over a bit of nuclear retaliation.
Put your hand in your pocket and buy some BTC and be a real man!