Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: richyrich on April 03, 2012, 09:18 pm
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I opened this thread not for free advice but because everybody who has BTC has the opportunity to get taxfree income but how is this possible in a brilliant way? I was thinking to apply for a prepaid debit or creditcard service and use an ATM to withdraw everything after selling the BTC for a low fee. Of course google came right up with some services but is there anyone who want to discuss this or has any idea, using bank transfer will make you pay taxes in a way after a few years 100%. Please share.
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cash by mail would be viable
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Cash by mail to various drops.
Get a debit card from OKPay in British Virgin Isl (it's a USD card)
Get a debit card from Aurumxchange
Get a debit card from the other dozens of BTC debit card vendors, or convert to LR and withdraw to a card
Buy an anonymous bank account from a carding forum
Register an offshore Internet Business corporation in the Seychelles, Belize, Panama or somewhere else, get a bank account with it
Open a fake decoy LLC and despot wires to it, declare some small tax. Probably the best way. You have a plausible front business, government gets some tax, you fly under the radar as opposed to using a bunch of the same offshore debit cards in the same machines over and over until somebody notices and takes an interest.
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Register an offshore Internet Business corporation in the Seychelles, Belize, Panama or somewhere else, get a bank account with it
This is the best place but those jurisdictions are targeted by the OECD now because of their notoriety as havens. If you are going to go down this route you need to have a proper understanding of the Offshore jurisdictions laws regarding secrecy and what disclosure treaties they have in place with your home nation. Their is a lot more to it than people think.
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Register an offshore Internet Business corporation in the Seychelles, Belize, Panama or somewhere else, get a bank account with it
This is the best place but those jurisdictions are targeted by the OECD now because of their notoriety as havens. If you are going to go down this route you need to have a proper understanding of the Offshore jurisdictions laws regarding secrecy and what disclosure treaties they have in place with your home nation. Their is a lot more to it than people think.
Yeah, either way the account should be opened with a fake passport.
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I haven't come across anyone who will issue a debit card without forms of ID. It's not like you can send in a photoshop'd passport as they'll verify if it's legit or not.
I have no idea how vendors on here are cashing out without leaving some sort of trail that leads right back to them. Other than the obvious which is a fake ID. The forged stuff on here looks shit. Only 1 has caught my eye but it's silly expensive to even consider right now.
How much safer is it to get a debit card from a bank in Belize or Panama. I've got no fucking idea if they'll simply straight up alert the authorities in my country of origin of my $$ usage.
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I haven't come across anyone who will issue a debit card without forms of ID. It's not like you can send in a photoshop'd passport as they'll verify if it's legit or not.
I have no idea how vendors on here are cashing out without leaving some sort of trail that leads right back to them. Other than the obvious which is a fake ID. The forged stuff on here looks shit. Only 1 has caught my eye but it's silly expensive to even consider right now.
How much safer is it to get a debit card from a bank in Belize or Panama. I've got no fucking idea if they'll simply straight up alert the authorities in my country of origin of my $$ usage.
This guy sells anonymous debit cards on HackBB; http://clsvtzwzdgzkjda7.onion/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=1803
They have poor limits though.
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Well I would ask.. why do you want the value/money in USD as opposed to BTC? If you are trying to pay rent and buy diapers sure.. but if you are trying to save money why convert it to paper?
I am planning to vend here on the Road (soon as harvest starts). I have a solid IRL work to eat on and am planning on keeping the proceeds of my vending in e-currency... specifically Bitcoin and Pecunix. Both are/can be anonymous (good luck proving I own it) and don't have to be "transferred" across borders like a bank transfer. They are totally immune to seizure unless I give up my codes. Bitcoin has some volatility yes, and it's a new currency (though I personally love it's long term prospects). Pecunix is the old-school digital gold. It's managed to survive where e-gold failed/lost. Off-shore, good legal structure, good governance.
For those who are less fond of leaving their BTC online have you considered this? http://coinabul.com/ . Apparently these folks will let you cash in your BTC to buy gold bullion and have it mailed to the address of your choice.. Since this happens outside any US State laws there would be no sales tax. Buying a commodity is not an taxable event with respect to personal income tax. Purchasing bullion is immune to GST and VAT in many jurisdictions.
Then you either store the gold in a safe or vault of your choice.. or take it to the local Chinatown or melt it down yourself and sell it off at the local cash for gold. Either way should be alot simpler than creating a corporate structure.
I realize anyone on Silk Road who's got alot of BTC is likely a dope dealer, so why the hell should we give a fuck about the tax code (assuming we aren't getting caught) but keeping all the profits as BTC, digital gold currency or physical bullion DOES have the nice effect of not involving either of two things which MUST be reported by US residents and citizens for tax purposes..
1.) ownership of a foreign bank account
2.) ownership of a foreign corporation or business entity.
If we don't care about the law why does this matter? Well the overseas banks have "know your customer" regs and you often have to GO there physically to start an International Business Corporation which can hold the bank accounts for you.
Digital currency and gold starts to seem alot simpler and easier then eh? Just have to keep your mouth shut. And in dealing.. that should have been lesson #0. :D
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Too bad no one selling gold bars on SR. 8)
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Anonymous credit card is interesting. Any service that provides selling BTC to creditcard?
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Register an offshore Internet Business corporation in the Seychelles, Belize, Panama or somewhere else, get a bank account with it
This is the best place but those jurisdictions are targeted by the OECD now because of their notoriety as havens. If you are going to go down this route you need to have a proper understanding of the Offshore jurisdictions laws regarding secrecy and what disclosure treaties they have in place with your home nation. Their is a lot more to it than people think.
Lim is correct in saying this. Your fastest route would be to get a re-loadable debit card from AurumXchange or another BTC vendor. Simple cash withdrawals at a bank are where it is at nowadays.
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Register an offshore Internet Business corporation in the Seychelles, Belize, Panama or somewhere else, get a bank account with it
This is the best place but those jurisdictions are targeted by the OECD now because of their notoriety as havens. If you are going to go down this route you need to have a proper understanding of the Offshore jurisdictions laws regarding secrecy and what disclosure treaties they have in place with your home nation. Their is a lot more to it than people think.
Lim is correct in saying this. Your fastest route would be to get a re-loadable debit card from AurumXchange or another BTC vendor. Simple cash withdrawals at a bank are where it is at nowadays.
Yeah although it all depends on the amounts you are talking about really. You can do a few Gs easily but if you are talking about a consistent flow of black capital you need to set up a proper corporate structure. The complexity of said structure all depends on the amounts of capital you need to clean and there are obviously several different methods and methods that can be combined. This stuff is sort of my bread and butter so if anyone wants to learn how to do it properly PM me. I do charge fees for this though because I'll teach the full works and fit it to your individual needs.
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Too bad no one selling gold bars on SR. 8)
Funny you say that buddy as I have been thinking about offering gold coins/bars on SR - do you think anyone would be interested?
I can say with some authority as I work in funds that keeping your savings in BTC is an extremely bad idea - even if the Bitcoin were stable and guaranteed to be around for the rest of your life which it isn't, you'd be missing out on further investment opportunities.
I have two clients who invest large sums with me on a monthly basis. They have me pay them regular installments plus interest into an Aurum XChange MasterCard which they bought legally in their own names. The funds are paid from a bank account I set up in the name of a bogus charity with myself and them as Trustees. They claim that can't be tracked but I don't think it would stand up to intense scrutiny.
I'm always open to suggestions!
V.
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Too bad no one selling gold bars on SR. 8)
Funny you say that buddy as I have been thinking about offering gold coins/bars on SR - do you think anyone would be interested?
I can say with some authority as I work in funds that keeping your savings in BTC is an extremely bad idea - even if the Bitcoin were stable and guaranteed to be around for the rest of your life which it isn't, you'd be missing out on further investment opportunities.
I have two clients who invest large sums with me on a monthly basis. They have me pay them regular installments plus interest into an Aurum XChange MasterCard which they bought legally in their own names. The funds are paid from a bank account I set up in the name of a bogus charity with myself and them as Trustees. They claim that can't be tracked but I don't think it would stand up to intense scrutiny.
I'm always open to suggestions!
V.
Don't do coins, they have serial numbers that can be traced. Ingots you can get away with because they can be easily melted down to get rid of any serial numbers and then sold on. Obviously you can melt down the coins but you'd need to do a fuck load to make them into ingots. I would buy gold/silver/platinum ingots on here if the opportunity but the bars would have to have any identification marks taken off them before shipping and I wouldn't have them shipped via standard methods OR to my home country.
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Too bad no one selling gold bars on SR. 8)
Funny you say that buddy as I have been thinking about offering gold coins/bars on SR - do you think anyone would be interested?
I can say with some authority as I work in funds that keeping your savings in BTC is an extremely bad idea - even if the Bitcoin were stable and guaranteed to be around for the rest of your life which it isn't, you'd be missing out on further investment opportunities.
I have two clients who invest large sums with me on a monthly basis. They have me pay them regular installments plus interest into an Aurum XChange MasterCard which they bought legally in their own names. The funds are paid from a bank account I set up in the name of a bogus charity with myself and them as Trustees. They claim that can't be tracked but I don't think it would stand up to intense scrutiny.
I'm always open to suggestions!
V.
Don't do coins, they have serial numbers that can be traced. Ingots you can get away with because they can be easily melted down to get rid of any serial numbers and then sold on. Obviously you can melt down the coins but you'd need to do a fuck load to make them into ingots. I would buy gold/silver/platinum ingots on here if the opportunity but the bars would have to have any identification marks taken off them before shipping and I wouldn't have them shipped via standard methods OR to my home country.
Interesting, thanks for your thoughts, maybe I'll offer some on here as I have a supplier who sells smaller ingots - the problem with not having a serial number of course is that they'd not be sealed which might be important to some buyers to make sure they're receiving gold at the agreed weight and purity. Does anyone else from the floor have any strong feelings about gold bars with serial numbers? If so I'll try to lay my hands on unmarked ingots - bearing in mind it's not illegal in itself to buy, sell or own gold.
V.
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The gold route is rather stupid imho, but if it works, then it works.
Two income sources:
1) btc -> prepaid debt cards. Not all of them need an ID, but the only ones I know of that do not need an ID take 10-20% off the top, which is frustrating. To save money it is better to get a fake ID, and then go to an atm and get cash from the prepaid debt card of your choosing. You can easily withdrawal thousands a month to cash with little issue.
2) For the larger stuff that has to go into the bank (legitimate account), it needs to be taxed as income. The idea is to drip small amounts directly into your bank so it doesn't increase income tax very much. This money can then be saved/invested/...
The best option is to work a day job, have legitimate money go into the bank, and then the illegal money to debt card/cash, and use cash for all of your expenses, like shopping, gas, and restaurants. If you make tons quick, faster than your bills, then save it in an online currency like Percunix, Liberty Reserve, or one of the many other less volatile currencies. From there you have money saved up for retirement. The trick is to never take out $5,000 or more at any given time.
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There is no red flag for not pulling out money. Many people have multiple bank accounts and they use another for their primary transaction and the rest for their savings.
Also moving legitimate money to another bank usually for investing is not only completely legal, but almost all of the money is still drawn out regardless.
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No Gold/Silver etc isn't illegal to own but stolen Gold/Silver is. There would be no point in selling legal metals here because you why would you need to sell it here when you can just go down the easier routes. Bent metals however can't be sold down the proper channels and has to be sold at cut prices. Ingots are like bank notes in the sense that serial numbers can be used to trace them so if the rozzers burst into your home and find ingots with known serial numbers it's the same as if they find marked bills. If you are going to sell bent gold you have to know jewelers that will take it off your hands no-questions asked to make it into jewelry or people that can re-stamp the ingots properly.
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Ah gotcha. And if they have serial numbers they can always be traced whether they are coins or ingots. If they aren't bent then it doesn't matter a shit or a shake about the serials and you could just sell them through an offshore to dodge the tax on the sales. If they aren't legit then as I say you gotta melt the shiny down and you need to have jewelers to take it off your hands much in the same way bent garages can operate as chop-shops. Alternatively you COULD set up a bent gold sourcing company and re-stamp bent ingots yourself... Not sure if that's been done before and it'd be complicated as fuck but it could probably work. :)