Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: waytoomany on March 16, 2012, 12:41 am
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So, I think it's likely that LE could have a seller account. I think some tend to underestimate the law enforcement and agencies a bit here on SR but i think it would be more ridiculous to say that LE isn't disguised as a seller account. Before you read further, my opinion may be bias due to the blow i been doing.
I mean think about it, maybe it would be impractical for small sales, but for people who buy larger quantities... DEA would have no problem finding people.. they would have your mailing address.
I guess what I'm trying to discuss here is, we should be weary of sellers too. Even the top rated sellers can't necessarily be trusted. The very number 1 rated seller could be an undercover DEA agent just adding up name after name of people buying large quantities.. The shitty part is, is that there really is no way of knowing who to trust here. Cuz shit, a well-rated seller here could get arrested and would more than likely become a snitch to save his own ass from going to prison and just give out the street addresses of all the people who have bought from.
I'm not going to lie but I often wonder, what if my main dealer on SR is just a LE just gathering info about me and just waiting for funding from the state to knock down my doors and prosecute my ass. I don't want to go to the clink.
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I think this alot of the time too..
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I'm not going to lie but I often wonder, what if my main dealer on SR is just a LE just gathering info about me and just waiting for funding from the state to knock down my doors and prosecute my ass. I don't want to go to the clink.
Then don't use SR.
It's all about Risk/Reward. If you think it's worth the risk, then great, but there is that chance that you will go. It's like the pill: you still can get preggers, highly unlikely, but still possible. The only true way of not having it happen is not to do it.
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It probably is/has/or will be happening someday >:( Hell cops do it in real life to gain street cred to get to the bigger ups, of course they will do it here.
But thinking about this too much would make me a paranoid wreck.
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I think good street sense in imperative here.
You wouldn't be careless in a random street deal with someone you didn't know without tapping your internal wisdom of judging trust in strangers, I don't think anyone should be careless here.
Personally, while I believe there are LEO trolls here, I don't think they've yet to wrap their heads around how to really stop SR, or even slow it down.
The people who get popped from purchases on SR are 99% likely to fall from human error and stupid mistakes. Proper research and precautions are imperative.
Galindoi
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Unless you're buying more than personal use at the time, LE aren't going to waste their time on you. The DEA is focused on the distribution channels, not consumers. They aren't going to pursue you unless it's clear that there's intent to sell.
Local cops don't have the resources or the knowledge to do this either - after all, what's the likelihood that a potential buyer falls within their jurisdiction?
It's pretty safe for buyers if you are buying in quantities that are clearly for personal use.
But this is my only post, so who know if you can trust a word I'm saying!
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Unless you're buying more than personal use at the time, LE aren't going to waste their time on you. The DEA is focused on the distribution channels, not consumers. They aren't going to pursue you unless it's clear that there's intent to sell.
Local cops don't have the resources or the knowledge to do this either - after all, what's the likelihood that a potential buyer falls within their jurisdiction?
It's pretty safe for buyers if you are buying in quantities that are clearly for personal use.
But this is my only post, so who know if you can trust a word I'm saying!
Define intent to sell?
For LSD I've heard anything over 5 is possession with intent to distribute. Personally if I picked up a sheet it'd have absolutely nothing to do with selling it, just a head stash. Specially with how weak the acid going around here is, a good trip takes 5-10 hits, so a half sheet is gone before you know it.
Back in my younger years a buddy of mine got count with an ounce of weed and was charged with possession with intent to sell. His lawyer got him 'off' from the max sentence of 10 years to 2 months and community service.
I think it really depends if your lucky or not if the DEA/Customs/LE find it, what kind of mood are they in, how long has it been since they got someone, are they on some sort of roll or do they have bigger fish to fry.
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We won't know until it happens. Someday, something will happen here. But until then it's just speculation.
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DEA has 100s of thousand of emails and addresses of people who ordering on-line prohibited staff. why they would need some more, becoming a seller here. Undercover LE is a buyers only, because they are after sellers not after buyers.
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C'mon...a seller actually giving you product just to bust you? Did I hear that here? If so...can't be done...simply can't be done.
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C'mon...a seller actually giving you product just to bust you? Did I hear that here? If so...can't be done...simply can't be done.
Surely you are kidding.
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C'mon...a seller actually giving you product just to bust you? Did I hear that here? If so...can't be done...simply can't be done.
Surely you are kidding.
+1!
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LEO created this site, to fix our sinking economy. Now get back to dealing.
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C'mon...a seller actually giving you product just to bust you? Did I hear that here? If so...can't be done...simply can't be done.
What are you talking about? It's done every day on the street.
As far as safety here on The Road, I believe it's still much safer than working the streets.
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"16 y/o kid OD's on heroine sold by DEA"
Although I'm sure LE is involved in some way or will be sooner or later, I don't think they would be selling drugs to hopefully get a big time buyer. The top vendors have many, many transactions under their belt. Their product is legit and I can't imagine that LE would be pumping that much product into a market just to hope to catch some big buyer.
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LE would never be allowed to send out controlled substances through international mail carriers, can you imagine the stink if a kid got hold of something they sent?
I could see LE doing purchases but not sales. They could become a seller to harvest buyers names but all they would have is a lot of possibly fake names of people wanting small amounts of product, LE are usually more interested in the next rung up on the ladder, not the bottom.
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LE would never be allowed to send out controlled substances through international mail carriers, can you imagine the stink if a kid got hold of something they sent?
I could see LE doing purchases but not sales. They could become a seller to harvest buyers names but all they would have is a lot of possibly fake names of people wanting small amounts of product, LE are usually more interested in the next rung up on the ladder, not the bottom.
+1 Yea come on guys, this happens IRL but you have to remember the context, this is SR where we are supposed to be anonymous and I'm pretty sure before LE would not be able to justify actually sending out high quality drugs to general public in order to bust a few buyers, it's a risk vs reward thing..come back to reality man, try to cut that paranoia with a little logic.
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I wish there was a better way to deal with the fact that you actually have to receive the shit somewhere that it's easy to pick up! I'm sure there are people out there with some good methods (i.e. vacant houses), but I wouldn't want them to post how they do it lest LE get one up on us!
It's a bit of a catch 22.
They will always be the thorn in our side...
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Please, I wish people would not cause so much speculation without any sort of proof... if you want to discuss the possibility create a thread in off topic or security. but for you to use a title that suggests you actually have evidence or there is a confirmed LEO is not warranted imo. there is one of these threads like every week where people just want to cry wolf and promote a bunch of fear mongering speculation. you should assume there are LEO on the site obviously, which is a danger with using an unestablished vendor.
Also, LEO can do whatever the fuck they want, which includes training warlords in the school of the americas to distributing weapons or some measly drugs...
Did no one else hear about the recent stories involving a US governmental agency, ATF I believe, which released a bunch of illegal weapons, like automatic assault rifles, onto the (street) black market??? The intention was to track the weapons into the hands of the drug cartels, and then bust them that way...
But as usual all their plans got fucked and for some reason releasing more lethal armory onto the streets ended up being a bad idea, go figure. They subsequently lost track of many of these guns and now they are still being used by the cartels to kill police officers (and of course innocent lives too). Oh the irony. It would be funny if it wasnt so depressing.
And you are debating whether LEO can release some drugs onto the streets because it could possibly kill somebody. Seems to me not to be much of an issue for them.
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Fucking scary, isn't it? With your paranoia level, I would first suggest weening yourself off of any stimulant. If that's not a possibility, go back to the street, my brother/sister. I totally understand paranoia, and it has something to say! Listen to it! Even if you're wrong in the long run.......you're SAFE!
Listen to yourself, even if you're fuckered. Believe in yourself. Leave the road if it will ease your mind. Return when you're better! Or never.
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If a seller here got busted I don't think LEO would be interested in small time buyers, rather the seller's supplier.
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Then don't use SR.
It's all about Risk/Reward. If you think it's worth the risk, then great, but there is that chance that you will go. It's like the pill: you still can get preggers, highly unlikely, but still possible. The only true way of not having it happen is not to do it.
thats ma nigga
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Please, I wish people would not cause so much speculation without any sort of proof... if you want to discuss the possibility create a thread in off topic or security. but for you to use a title that suggests you actually have evidence or there is a confirmed LEO is not warranted imo. there is one of these threads like every week where people just want to cry wolf and promote a bunch of fear mongering speculation. you should assume there are LEO on the site obviously, which is a danger with using an unestablished vendor.
Also, LEO can do whatever the fuck they want, which includes training warlords in the school of the americas to distributing weapons or some measly drugs...
Did no one else hear about the recent stories involving a US governmental agency, ATF I believe, which released a bunch of illegal weapons, like automatic assault rifles, onto the (street) black market??? The intention was to track the weapons into the hands of the drug cartels, and then bust them that way...
But as usual all their plans got fucked and for some reason releasing more lethal armory onto the streets ended up being a bad idea, go figure. They subsequently lost track of many of these guns and now they are still being used by the cartels to kill police officers (and of course innocent lives too). Oh the irony. It would be funny if it wasnt so depressing.
And you are debating whether LEO can release some drugs onto the streets because it could possibly kill somebody. Seems to me not to be much of an issue for them.
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Again it's context guys, according to your story they released the guns in order to bring down a DRUG CARTEL, yes if the fish is big enough LE will stoop to unethical levels to secure a bust because then they can justify it, that is not the case here. I'm not sure what you guy's are buying on here but I'm keeping it smart and sticking to personal amounts in order to fly under radar. And oh yea, this is not the "streets".
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"16 y/o kid OD's on heroine sold by DEA"
Although I'm sure LE is involved in some way or will be sooner or later, I don't think they would be selling drugs to hopefully get a big time buyer. The top vendors have many, many transactions under their belt. Their product is legit and I can't imagine that LE would be pumping that much product into a market just to hope to catch some big buyer.
J'em, I am with you. No way would the DEA or LE take on the risk of distributing actual product via the US Mail for actual use and only later make bust. Your example fo the 16 yr is right on point. Only vulnerability I would see is a large seller would get busted and a 1 time "set up" occurs for buyers. Doubt that would be foremost in LE's mind. Only value would be a a little PR. Still, busting 15-20 people on a few g's across the country would not seem to be headlines making. So over time big vendors sending product is not a big worry, at least in my mind.
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Look. If LEO's selling some good shit, I'm buying. What's his Silk Road URL? I know they didn't go stealth. :P
Seriously though... LEO is probably the scammers. A LEO tactic to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt in the community. They would take advantage of the system's weakness. They're scam buyers and scam sellers. Look at the policies that had to be enacted because of scammers. Makes it harder for new buyers to buy and makes it harder for established sellers to sell to new buyers. This has the effect of concentrating buyer/seller groups. And everyone in those mall groups trust on another. So all LEO has to do a have an account with one of these trusted selllers and they can be keen on looking for stupid mistakes.
Diversification is one of the keys to avoid LEO's traps.
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This is why you should buy from a german vendor ;)
You ask WHY?
Because the german LE is not allowed to take part on any suspicious or
even unlawful act! They simply would not buy and of course they also
would not sell any restricted items!
Of course our customs are very restrictive also by sending to foreign
countries but I can be proud of more than 100 shipments to countries
all over the world and only two reported seizures from norwegian customs.
Yes, that´s right NORWEGIAN CUSTOMS ;)
Have a look into my profile, stocklisting, recent feedback or just to sent me
a question and i will try to do my best as I am doing now for more than
5 month testified a 100% by my customers!
Greets JD
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Yeah guys seriously think just a little bit harder. LE is not going to pose as a fucking vendor, jesus. That idea is so incredibly flawed in so many ways. A kid ODing on drugs LE sent is just one of many reasons why this would NEVER EVER happen.
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But if a reputable seller was LE, they'd have to have had sold drugs to people. Otherwise they would never have been able to get a good rep. People would have to receive drugs from the LE vendor in the mail.
There would have to be real money involved bc SR takes a commission fee.
I don't put it past LE to be so hypocritical, but I think it would fuck up their case if they actually sold drugs to people. So it's pretty far fetched IMO.
The only way I could see a reputable seller being LE is if the he was legit at some point, got busted, and is now in cahoots with LE.
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Look. If LEO's selling some good shit, I'm buying. What's his Silk Road URL? I know they didn't go stealth. :P
Seriously though... LEO is probably the scammers. A LEO tactic to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt in the community. They would take advantage of the system's weakness. They're scam buyers and scam sellers. Look at the policies that had to be enacted because of scammers. Makes it harder for new buyers to buy and makes it harder for established sellers to sell to new buyers. This has the effect of concentrating buyer/seller groups. And everyone in those mall groups trust on another. So all LEO has to do a have an account with one of these trusted selllers and they can be keen on looking for stupid mistakes.
Diversification is one of the keys to avoid LEO's traps.
^Yeah, if the actual LEOs will be doing anything, it's this. They won't be selling you the drugs themselves, that's what confidential informants, cooperating witnesses, etc are for. I can see them recruiting vendors as rats, but I doubt they'd let them continue selling hard drugs due to liability issues someone mentioned earlier. That leaves them with what? Weed, Viagra, maybe some RCs and/or LSD? Benzos?
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But if a reputable seller was LE, they'd have to have had sold drugs to people. Otherwise they would never have been able to get a good rep. People would have to receive drugs from the LE vendor in the mail.
There would have to be real money involved bc SR takes a commission fee.
I don't put it past LE to be so hypocritical, but I think it would fuck up their case if they actually sold drugs to people. So it's pretty far fetched IMO.
The only way I could see a reputable seller being LE is if the he was legit at some point, got busted, and is now in cahoots with LE.
LE is hypocritical, no doubt, but no way would they invest that much time, effort and to bust someone for buying an eighth of shrooms.
If LE has their eye on SR, they are trying to bust sellers, or the operators of the site. I'm sure someone in the DEA gets wet dreams about raiding SR's servers.
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OP = LEO
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Itss america... sorry but,,,,
no other country gives a fuck but america.. be a top coke seller/mdma.else wath out they are 100% on this website...... no doubt about it.
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Come again?
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This is why you should buy from a german vendor ;)
You ask WHY?
Because the german LE is not allowed to take part on any suspicious or
even unlawful act! They simply would not buy and of course they also
would not sell any restricted items!
Of course our customs are very restrictive also by sending to foreign
countries but I can be proud of more than 100 shipments to countries
all over the world and only two reported seizures from norwegian customs.
Yes, that´s right NORWEGIAN CUSTOMS ;)
Have a look into my profile, stocklisting, recent feedback or just to sent me
a question and i will try to do my best as I am doing now for more than
5 month testified a 100% by my customers!
Greets JD
Nice little plug ;).
But there's more to above story, than sildenafil is saying. Buying international can in the long run be safer than buying domestic. Although the changes of your product being caught is larger when buying international, the actual risk of getting prosecuted and what not is pretty low. LE from different countries don't tend to work together that much.
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First time I saw silk road I though:"wow the guys are buying and selling schedule 1 and 2 substances over the internet? That is so stupid, they are just gonna get busted."
Then I made my first order, then I made another order, then I realised LE doesnt care about silk road. It is out of the publics eye, and out of sight is out of mind. I think unless the public gets outraged at SR we are fairly safe for the time being. But the day will come when some kid living is the suburbs buys drugs from SR, becomes a victim of NATURAL SELECTION; ODs and his parents are outraged and LE has no choice but to bust some buyers and sellers on SR.
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Cops CANNOT let drugs out on the street unless they can prove to their supervisors that they WILL get them back.
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While understandable, I find threads like these funny. Most trial transcripts are part of the public domain, read them... and add a dash of critical thinking.... you'll soon realize that "LEO" is not pursuing the recreational users. Parenthetically, I'm certain they are involved here, but not at risk to the/a buyer.
How do the douche-bags say it.....? SWIM was in court the other day, and during cross-examination of Detective Vargas of the XXX county PD, he fucked up by .... (excerpt):
"Q. Does the Task Force look the same today as it did when you started 21 years ago?
A. No.
Q. In what ways has it changed?
A. When I started 21 years ago, I was actually assigned to the XXX County Sheriff's Office Narcotics Unit. XXX PD had their own Narcotics Unit. Around 2000, we merged together. There already was a Task Force, which was based in the City of XXX. Around 2000, we merged into one unit, so there is only one Task Force that has all the agencies put together in there."
....
[Discussion about two types of informants and their motivations - omitted]
"Q. Now, you mentioned the term "controlled buy." What do you mean by that?
A. A controlled buy is when we have an informant that has given us a location where
he or she can buy drugs. What we do first is meet that informant, we get the information, we try to do a little bit of homework on it to see if it is reliable or not or if they are telling the truth. What we will do is have the informant contact the supplier, make arrangement to purchase a certain amount of drugs. Prior to sending that person to the drug dealer, we will search that person's car and his or her person. If they are not driving, we just search the person. We will search them and the vehicle to make sure they are not carrying drugs into a suspected dealer's house so they have no drugs on them and no money so they can't buy stuff themselves. If they do have money, we take it and hold onto it until it is done. After that, then, we will follow them to the house, make sure that we keep on that person, that they go nowhere else, that they meet nobody else. .....
Q. One last question on this topic before we move on to some stuff more directly related to this particular investigation. Is it often the case that you as detectives give informants the targets? In other words, say, hey, I've got a tip that Joe is out dealing a lot of cocaine. Can you go see if you can get into Joe? Or does it most often work in the reverse where the informants are bringing you a potential target?
A. We don't give informants targets to go out and track down for us. They are the ones that usually give us the information, a name and location. There have been times where like we receive a complaint of an establishment that is selling drugs in the parking lot or inside the bar. We might sent an informant in a car to see what's going on, but we don't give them names and targets. We just send them in to check things out. But as far as names, we don't give them names."
Now, I'm a bit drunk and tired, and so, I don't want to explain - or, ask SWIM to explain to me. (ha-ha). But SWIM did win his 3.6 motion, and Vargs's testimony was impeached.... This, however, is from a couple of weeks ago - understand what is and is not permissible for LEO... very limited.
Paranoia is good but too much can be crippling. Not to get political, but it's your body and mind not the governments - and so, you are the master of your domain, not what some legislative or judicial body determines.
As Rage Against The Machine said quoting NWA - "FUCK THE POLICE.... Comin straight from the underground. Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown, And not the other color so police think, They have the authority to kill a minority....Fuck that shit, cuz I ain't tha one."
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I laughed pretty hard at this:
"Before you read further, my opinion may be bias due to the blow i been doing."
I've been thinking about this now and, to my mind, there is no doubt that SR is in some degree compromised. Think about how crazy this is. You're buying drugs, online. Plus we're talking about LE, which, practically speaking, has an infinite amount of resources compared to anyone here.
I don't know, overall I get a pretty bad vibe, but maybe I am not so brave as some people here.
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No offense OP, but you also totally miss the fact that SR, by it's very systemic nature, makes it difficult to PROVE that, not only did you actually make the specific purchase, but that it was your INTENT to do so. If you shut up and keep your ego in check you can always stay safe in the realms of your mind.
Be smart and control your online and mobile footprint at all times. The internet, whether this be good or bad, affords you the ability to control your identity...use it to protect yourself and use the available resources to navigate through the scammers.
For us Americans we have especially strong civil liberties, whether or not they've weakened in the last decades. We have a right to counsel and not to speak; this simple fact is so undervalued when it really is that important.
Above all, Karma is fucking real...always keep yourself grounded.
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Undercover sellers = unlikely (less some zealous rambo cop)
The more structural approach however would likely focus on cash flow, acquiring data from btc exchanges etc.etc.
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I know opinions are like assholes but......
LE does conduct reverse "buy/busts", they are typically done in the same fashion as they do to bust those trolling for street hookers. They do these for the same reason they crack down on "johns", to shame the buyers and as public relations to send a message to would be buyers/johns that hey you might get busted.
That said; if a LEO did pose as a seller on SR and busted a buyer we would hear about it, they would make a big public deal out of it because the purpose would be to intimidate and scare potential SR customers. Now we could argue the effectiveness of this tactic but that is neither here or there.
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The only police agencies that let drugs back onto the market are big city narcotics units. It's not like the feds gave away automatic rifles to drug cartels or anything lol.
But seriously, I doubt LE will be selling hard drugs as vendors on here especially after the whole Fast & Furious debacle. I do see them busting a few low-hanging vendors and then flipping them to informants while allowing them to continue their business. LE builds a case against all the buyers, then swoops in and makes an example of them. How many buyers would still trust SR after that, especially if the cops are smart and go after something small like weed to make the full spectrum of buyers piss themselves in fear?
The best thing about SR is the difficulty involved in prosecuting users who know what they're doing. Someone else already mentioned this, but it's very, very hard to actually prove intent and even possession if the buyer covers his tracks, doesn't fall for controlled deliveries, and knows not to talk to cops. However, that won't help if the feds want to round up a bunch of buyers and just throw charges at them hoping a few stick. The feds don't like to tarnish that conviction rate of theirs but I can definitely see them arresting dozens of buyers only to have charges dropped, so as long as it panics the SR community and severely disrupts business.
My advice is don't be the low hanging fruit. There's always a chance you'll be caught either way, but IMO it's still safer to buy off SR (if you do it right) than to buy off the street, even if you're dealing with friends. "Randomly" receiving a package with drugs offers more deniability than a hand off in the street or buying from a CI you know personally.
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The problem I see with LE vending legitimate drugs is the lack of control.
1) You could get your drugs without incident. Without someone being there to officially document you taking delivery, there isn't much evidence once the drugs are gone and consumed.
2) You could get your drugs via controlled delivery. If you've taken every other precaution, shut your fucking mouth and get an attorney. You should be fine.
3) You never receive your package of pure Afghani #4 because your neighbor's teenage son or daughter get it instead, overdose, and die. That's going to over real well during the resultant investigation.
When cops sell drugs, guns, or anything else, those products are tightly watched/monitored.controlled. This element of control is lost when packages are mailed received without controlled delivery. Look how much shit the Eric Holder and the DoJ are getting over walking guns to Mexico...
Much more likely is that LE will purchase drugs, gather intel, file disputes, and cause chaos.
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If LE was vending, wouldnt simply ordering be enough to charge? I mean you've transfered money, supplied an address..
Everyone talks about them actually shipping. If they wanted to make an example out of someone, I really dont think they would have a problem.
Intent and follow through were there, thats enough for prositution. When they did drug stings they don't have to hand you product, soon as you confirm the transfer they can arrest.
The harder part I think would be jurisdiction for local LE. As well as proving it was you, although honestly that wouldn't be that hard, even with fake name PO box/etc..
Not going to go into details laying out how easy this would be given a warrant.
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If LE was vending, wouldnt simply ordering be enough to charge? I mean you've transfered money, supplied an address..
Everyone talks about them actually shipping. If they wanted to make an example out of someone, I really dont think they would have a problem.
Intent and follow through were there, thats enough for prositution. When they did drug stings they don't have to hand you product, soon as you confirm the transfer they can arrest.
The harder part I think would be jurisdiction for local LE. As well as proving it was you, although honestly that wouldn't be that hard, even with fake name PO box/etc..
Not going to go into details laying out how easy this would be given a warrant.
Anyone can mail you something. I could order drugs and send them to you because I'm pissed that I caught you sleeping with my wife. You could order drugs and send them to the dude you caught sleeping with your wife. Anyone with a personal vendetta against anyone else could do the same.
Without a single shred of evidence linking you to the order itself, the case that could be made seems flimsy, at best. A controlled delivery is made, a warrant is served, but not a single bit of evidence exists that can link you to the order. Life would suck while you were getting it sorted out, but still... No evidence, no case. "I'd like to speak to my attorney right now" is all that should be said.
Now, if after serving a warrant, your computer is seized, and there is found sufficient evidence to show that you had at least visited Silk Road, then such evidence would be used to back up their case against you. The more evidence, the stronger the case.
It's all a calculated risk, but one I'm willing to accept after taking the necessary precautions.
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Psyops
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Psyops
Wonder what percentage of newbie buyer disputes are attempts at this?
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You would have to be a little naive to think that LEO would never try and open a vendor account. I don't give a shit if it's federal, state, or local. I would never put it past any level of US law enforcement to create a vendor account. They have used reversed stings for years after busting weed/crack holes, or even to bust potential "johns" in prostitution stings. They don't let you get to far after you buy it though, so you would know right away once you were duped by LEO in a reverse sting.
You also have to account for scammers like ObamaGirl potentially being LEO. This would be an easy way to get addresses and just to piss people off.
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haha... it makes me laughing reader all this crap... are you really that paranoid people? ...ähm... yeah, to put something right - le is after seller not buyers, otherwise they would need 1 billion more agents to bust them too, haha... ;)
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It's not paranoia, it's simple fact that LE has used selling drugs as a way to bust users, not just sellers.
Another fact is that some of the people that are buying stuff on SR are buying large enough amounts to be reselling whatever it is they are buying on SR.
At the end of the day, they can do whatever the hell they want. It may not hold up in court, but no one here wants to sit through the stress of a trial. It would only take a few busts of some of the more frequent buyers on here to start a shit load of real paranoia.
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As you say there's no way to be certain.
I work as a Paralegal though and I have to tell you this would be considered textbook entrapment. The very nature of SR means that a Law Enforcement Agent would be placing themselves in an extremely compromising position by having an account on here in the first place, even in the name of ostensibly policing the internet for illegal activity.
If we ignore the first issue and assume your District Attorney's office in America, or my Crown Prosecution Service in England would overlook the issue of entrapment, there is also the issue of the burden of proof.
It is indeed a crime to attempt to buy drugs but how would the Prosecution go about proving a connection between you and an attempted buyer? There is no IP address to link to you to the account you created through SR, nor the e-mail address with which it is associated. Bitcoin transactions are difficult enough to trace at the best of times and as memory serves SR uses a mixer to obfuscate the transaction history further.
Even if a clear transfer of funds could be established from a particular buyer account and yours, this is a far cry from the burden of evidence necessary to lay out before a jury - in reality all they would have is your address, which could have been written by anyone with access to a phone book.
I wouldn't be surprised if Police monitor SR when possible but setting themselves up as established vendors would get them nowhere.
V.
It's not paranoia, it's simple fact that LE has used selling drugs as a way to bust users, not just sellers.
Another fact is that some of the people that are buying stuff on SR are buying large enough amounts to be reselling whatever it is they are buying on SR.
At the end of the day, they can do whatever the hell they want. It may not hold up in court, but no one here wants to sit through the stress of a trial. It would only take a few busts of some of the more frequent buyers on here to start a shit load of real paranoia.
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So, I think it's likely that LE could have a seller account.
Ya think?
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Anyone can mail you something. I could order drugs and send them to you because I'm pissed that I caught you sleeping with my wife. You could order drugs and send them to the dude you caught sleeping with your wife. Anyone with a personal vendetta against anyone else could do the same.
Always love hearing this reasoning. I'd sooooo love to be in the court when it gets a run. The howls of laughter would be deafening.
Seriously, who with a vendetta of any sort would send drugs? Anthrax maybe, but drugs? As a payback? Remind me to sleep with your wife!
Lies work when they're simple and believable. Which is why for example sending it to a previous resident might work. Won't get you off probably, but it's more believable than telling a cop "yeah, this guy found me balls deep in his wife, so he send me a few grams of rack as a fark-you".
Don't forget, for your excuse to work, the cops would have to be tipped off by the husband. Doesn't work if customs/mail randomly finds it.
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What kind of LE would actually distribute drugs themselves? If someone died off the drugs they sold...they'd be fucked. No what they do is buy drugs off sellers to acquire a warrant to bust them.
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"16 y/o kid OD's on heroine sold by DEA"
+1
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In direct answer to the OP, I think you may have hit the blow a bit too hard pal. Like the people above said the Bacon solicits to buy to get warrants to arrest those that sell. You may get some bent Bacon selling bits out of an evidence lock up but that's about it. If there was Bacon on here they would be soliciting to build cases against sellers that are the big fish rather than the buyers who are the tiddlers. You gotta cut the head off a snake and watch the body die yano.
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I have thought about this and agree with what most people say in regards to LE only going for the sellers. Apart from getting detailed information from exchanges which itself would be a huge undertaking. Isn't it possible they could order from sellers and check for DNA, a hair or a fingerprint on the inner packaging could easily lead to someone on the criminal database (if they are on there that is).
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I don't underestimate LE at all, I mean think about DarkMarket, operating on a carders market is much more dangerous but no one thought at the time that the admin himself was an FBI agent. They did NOT sell 3rd party dumps themselves though, they have in the past though sold dumps with generated numbers so they could easily identify and nab those trying to use them. That's the difference.
So is it possible some vendors are LE? Yes, probable even. But they aren't going to be slinging dope around the country/world as a cover, they have very strict guidelines they must abide by, they can do controlled sales with approval but no one in the FBI is going to approve to blindly mailing drugs around.
What's more likely is LE being a vendor selling bitcoins or offering bitcoin services, which they can then track their 'customer' using these bitcoins to send to a vendor and then following the trail from there.
It's also more likely buyers are LE than sellers, as it's pretty common for undercover to get approval for controlled buys as they try to move up the ladder to bulk sales. The vendors that stick to the tried and true methods of NEVER giving up anonymity under any circumstances, having a buyers account separate from their vendors account, and shipping their products in a random way from numerous locations will be relatively untouchable.
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Uh oh, this BC Bud is actually Grade A Oregano. That seller must be a cop with morals.
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What's more likely is LE being a vendor selling bitcoins or offering bitcoin services, which they can then track their 'customer' using these bitcoins to send to a vendor and then following the trail from there.
Ha, that's funny. I was just thinking the same thing about BTC Buddy whom is now asking vendors to sell their bitcoins to him/her. Establish a reputation selling bitcoins, then offer to buy bitcoins from vendors.
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Funnily enough I've been approached by two vendors now interested in giving me Bitcoins to sell to buyers in exchange for a commission. (For those of you who don't know I sell Bitcoins to people in the UK for cash in the mail).
I've said no in each case as I can't see any incentive for a BTC vendor to do this - why buy Bitcoins at inflated rates from vendors when I can obtain them directly myself and pass the savings onto customers?
That's not to say that a BTC Trader who offers to do this service is necessarily LE as he may just be trying to cover his own ass as he hasn't found a way to obtain Bitcoins safely but I agree you should look on such requests with suspicion!
V.
What's more likely is LE being a vendor selling bitcoins or offering bitcoin services, which they can then track their 'customer' using these bitcoins to send to a vendor and then following the trail from there.
Ha, that's funny. I was just thinking the same thing about BTC Buddy whom is now asking vendors to sell their bitcoins to him/her. Establish a reputation selling bitcoins, then offer to buy bitcoins from vendors.
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Perhaps LE would pose as vendors to farm addresses.. But then again they'd have to sell drugs to do that. I know that isn't beyond them, but it doesn't seem up to scale to do something that serious to bust people buying personal amounts.
I think whats far more likely is that they're profiling vendors based on forum posts/time of logins/amount of sales/postmarks ETC or pursuing some sort of fault in Tor to locate the main SR servers.
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What kind of LE would actually distribute drugs themselves? If someone died off the drugs they sold...they'd be fucked. No what they do is buy drugs off sellers to acquire a warrant to bust them.
Worst reasoning ever. If you are American, just google "Operation Fast and Furious." At least one dead federal agent, and possibly hundreds of Mexican citizens.
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I don't underestimate LE at all, I mean think about DarkMarket, operating on a carders market is much more dangerous but no one thought at the time that the admin himself was an FBI agent. They did NOT sell 3rd party dumps themselves though, they have in the past though sold dumps with generated numbers so they could easily identify and nab those trying to use them. That's the difference.
So is it possible some vendors are LE? Yes, probable even. But they aren't going to be slinging dope around the country/world as a cover, they have very strict guidelines they must abide by, they can do controlled sales with approval but no one in the FBI is going to approve to blindly mailing drugs around.
What's more likely is LE being a vendor selling bitcoins or offering bitcoin services, which they can then track their 'customer' using these bitcoins to send to a vendor and then following the trail from there.
It's also more likely buyers are LE than sellers, as it's pretty common for undercover to get approval for controlled buys as they try to move up the ladder to bulk sales. The vendors that stick to the tried and true methods of NEVER giving up anonymity under any circumstances, having a buyers account separate from their vendors account, and shipping their products in a random way from numerous locations will be relatively untouchable.
This is spot on. It is silliness to think that LE can sell drugs to gain convictions, it just doesn't work that way because it runs into entrapment laws. If LE are vendors on here then if they were going to do a controlled sale they would be targeting vendors and offering them bulk quantities, not regular buyers UNLESS they were buying kilo+ amounts. What they are more likely to do is go after vendors through their finances and this is most likely to be done by profiling peoples exchange accounts.
Also the idea that LE would pose as vendors to farm addresses is highly unlikely, why the fuck would they go after a few gram buyers? They don't care about you, they care about the vendors, the mods, the admin and the staff. That's who they are likely to target.
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I don't underestimate LE at all, I mean think about DarkMarket, operating on a carders market is much more dangerous but no one thought at the time that the admin himself was an FBI agent. They did NOT sell 3rd party dumps themselves though, they have in the past though sold dumps with generated numbers so they could easily identify and nab those trying to use them. That's the difference.
So is it possible some vendors are LE? Yes, probable even. But they aren't going to be slinging dope around the country/world as a cover, they have very strict guidelines they must abide by, they can do controlled sales with approval but no one in the FBI is going to approve to blindly mailing drugs around.
What's more likely is LE being a vendor selling bitcoins or offering bitcoin services, which they can then track their 'customer' using these bitcoins to send to a vendor and then following the trail from there.
It's also more likely buyers are LE than sellers, as it's pretty common for undercover to get approval for controlled buys as they try to move up the ladder to bulk sales. The vendors that stick to the tried and true methods of NEVER giving up anonymity under any circumstances, having a buyers account separate from their vendors account, and shipping their products in a random way from numerous locations will be relatively untouchable.
This is spot on. It is silliness to think that LE can sell drugs to gain convictions, it just doesn't work that way because it runs into entrapment laws. If LE are vendors on here then if they were going to do a controlled sale they would be targeting vendors and offering them bulk quantities, not regular buyers UNLESS they were buying kilo+ amounts. What they are more likely to do is go after vendors through their finances and this is most likely to be done by profiling peoples exchange accounts.
Also the idea that LE would pose as vendors to farm addresses is highly unlikely, why the fuck would they go after a few gram buyers? They don't care about you, they care about the vendors, the mods, the admin and the staff. That's who they are likely to target.
LE sell drugs to get convictions all the time, it is called a reverse sting and entrapment is no defense. For entrapment to work LE would need to offer you drugs, you turn them down and then they continually pressure you into buying them. If they offer drugs and you place an order it is not entrapment. In parts of Europe the law is different but in USA reverse stings are common place.
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Ah ok, well in the U.K that shit don't fly here. But even saying that there is no way that the U.S LE or any other for that matter would bother farming addresses in that way, it's not worth the time or resources. They aren't interested in the buyers, they want the sellers and staff.
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I don't underestimate LE at all, I mean think about DarkMarket, operating on a carders market is much more dangerous but no one thought at the time that the admin himself was an FBI agent. They did NOT sell 3rd party dumps themselves though, they have in the past though sold dumps with generated numbers so they could easily identify and nab those trying to use them. That's the difference.
So is it possible some vendors are LE? Yes, probable even. But they aren't going to be slinging dope around the country/world as a cover, they have very strict guidelines they must abide by, they can do controlled sales with approval but no one in the FBI is going to approve to blindly mailing drugs around.
What's more likely is LE being a vendor selling bitcoins or offering bitcoin services, which they can then track their 'customer' using these bitcoins to send to a vendor and then following the trail from there.
It's also more likely buyers are LE than sellers, as it's pretty common for undercover to get approval for controlled buys as they try to move up the ladder to bulk sales. The vendors that stick to the tried and true methods of NEVER giving up anonymity under any circumstances, having a buyers account separate from their vendors account, and shipping their products in a random way from numerous locations will be relatively untouchable.
This is spot on. It is silliness to think that LE can sell drugs to gain convictions, it just doesn't work that way because it runs into entrapment laws. If LE are vendors on here then if they were going to do a controlled sale they would be targeting vendors and offering them bulk quantities, not regular buyers UNLESS they were buying kilo+ amounts. What they are more likely to do is go after vendors through their finances and this is most likely to be done by profiling peoples exchange accounts.
Also the idea that LE would pose as vendors to farm addresses is highly unlikely, why the fuck would they go after a few gram buyers? They don't care about you, they care about the vendors, the mods, the admin and the staff. That's who they are likely to target.
LE sell drugs to get convictions all the time, it is called a reverse sting and entrapment is no defense. For entrapment to work LE would need to offer you drugs, you turn them down and then they continually pressure you into buying them. If they offer drugs and you place an order it is not entrapment. In parts of Europe the law is different but in USA reverse stings are common place.
Yeah I've seen it on one of those COPS type shows where plain clothed police or FBI were standing at a spot, virtually dragging peopl;e off the street to offer them drugs....the people would say no, then they would keep on at them till they bought it....the geezers would walk off ting in hand, then they would bust the fuck outta them....I couldn't believe it man....Fuckers.
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Telling things like that is ridiculus to try to paint any picture onto an inanimate picture called the US government. Most of what it does it does not know about, they justify it in their minds.....their minds are shattered easily just like the millions they do to others every year.
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I don't underestimate LE at all, I mean think about DarkMarket, operating on a carders market is much more dangerous but no one thought at the time that the admin himself was an FBI agent. They did NOT sell 3rd party dumps themselves though, they have in the past though sold dumps with generated numbers so they could easily identify and nab those trying to use them. That's the difference.
So is it possible some vendors are LE? Yes, probable even. But they aren't going to be slinging dope around the country/world as a cover, they have very strict guidelines they must abide by, they can do controlled sales with approval but no one in the FBI is going to approve to blindly mailing drugs around.
What's more likely is LE being a vendor selling bitcoins or offering bitcoin services, which they can then track their 'customer' using these bitcoins to send to a vendor and then following the trail from there.
It's also more likely buyers are LE than sellers, as it's pretty common for undercover to get approval for controlled buys as they try to move up the ladder to bulk sales. The vendors that stick to the tried and true methods of NEVER giving up anonymity under any circumstances, having a buyers account separate from their vendors account, and shipping their products in a random way from numerous locations will be relatively untouchable.
This is spot on. It is silliness to think that LE can sell drugs to gain convictions, it just doesn't work that way because it runs into entrapment laws. If LE are vendors on here then if they were going to do a controlled sale they would be targeting vendors and offering them bulk quantities, not regular buyers UNLESS they were buying kilo+ amounts. What they are more likely to do is go after vendors through their finances and this is most likely to be done by profiling peoples exchange accounts.
Also the idea that LE would pose as vendors to farm addresses is highly unlikely, why the fuck would they go after a few gram buyers? They don't care about you, they care about the vendors, the mods, the admin and the staff. That's who they are likely to target.
LE sell drugs to get convictions all the time, it is called a reverse sting and entrapment is no defense. For entrapment to work LE would need to offer you drugs, you turn them down and then they continually pressure you into buying them. If they offer drugs and you place an order it is not entrapment. In parts of Europe the law is different but in USA reverse stings are common place.
Right, I agree that would not be entrapment. I'm not saying LE won't sell drugs, they do it all the time, but they need approval for controlled sales. Having an undercover under surveillance doing a controlled sale or selling/purchasing from a suspects home in order to get a warrant is one thing, and happens often. Mailing drugs around would be completely uncontrolled, and I just can't see this being an approved way for them to pursue or convict anyone.
So let's say for a minute an LE agency did decide to go undercover as a vendor here. If they come right out trying to sell bulk only, no one is going to buy shit. If they start small then they have to legitimately sell small amounts of drugs to buyers since they aren't going to waste the manpower to bust small buyers, and if they did then they would never get any feedback that they would need before they could even start selling bulk to people they would actually want to bust.
I just think there are hundreds of more likely and legitimate threats than an LE agency being an undercover vendor. An undercover buyer is much more likely and as I said the tools are there for vendors to protect themselves from such a threat by remaining completely anonymous at all costs. Of all face to face sellers in the country, LE still can't control it and they convict them left and right but most of them are caught by someone snitching, which gives places like SR a huge advantage where a vendors buyers don't even know who they are, or where they are if they spread their drops out well enough.
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I have no idea if it is happening or not, but to think the government wouldn't sell drugs is ridiculous. It is well documented that the DEA imported cocaine to the West Coast for years to support the contras. Well documented...did the cocaine kill people? I'm sure....