Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: subdude on March 12, 2012, 10:17 pm
-
Well...is it?
-
No if you make enough profit you can pull it off :)
-
Anyone that thinks the price of doing business is too high will not be here.
Looks like there are plenty of people that do not think the price of business it too high.
It always varies, depending on what your selling, if you are middle man or source, ect., ect.
-
Silk Road gives us a way to easily reach the broadest customer base possible. The transaction fees on top of all the complication that is inherent in such a project may seem like too much to some. It is these individuals that I would like to remind of the opportunity given to us here on SR. Not only from a business perspective, from the perspective of all those who want change. We're here to keep each other free. I think that's worth a few dollars.
~from the meadow, goatHerd
-
SR? No.
But the associated or indirect costs outside of the SR can be significant. It takes considerable time and effort to be truly anonymous if you're a vendor.
Still, it beats the crap out of paying taxes.
-
- surely there's a difference between domestic and international orders?!
{wholesale subs cost + postage & packaging overhead (per order)
time spent running around IRL Versus packing, reading msg's and the forum etc?!}
???
edit:vendor model obviously differs, depends on whats being sold, upfront investment which determines how quickly need to reclaw cash and buy more means lowers
yours cost per unit / gram / sheet etc..
-
Wow, thanks for explaining your post. It's really clear what you are talking about.
But, I would say that the cost isn't high enough. I see many people who sell their product entirely too cheap, considering that what you are selling can land you in prison for a long time, and they have to deal with people who aren't the most upstanding citizens in their communities. Silkroad throws another wrench into the cogs, because now there is potentially a paper trail, so the alternative is Bitcoins, and you are at risk of a loss due to the fluctuation of the exchange rate, and they have to screw around and wait 3-5 business days every time they want to get their money.
Basically, if you are trying to sell on silkroad, and you are not making enough money, then either raise your prices, or quit selling because you aren't good enough. People freak when I say raise your prices, but competition in markets is good, and with something like illegal drugs, it's a seller's market, which means the seller sets the prices, not the buyer.
-
Silk Road gives us a way to easily reach the broadest customer base possible. The transaction fees on top of all the complication that is inherent in such a project may seem like too much to some. It is these individuals that I would like to remind of the opportunity given to us here on SR. Not only from a business perspective, from the perspective of all those who want change. We're here to keep each other free. I think that's worth a few dollars.
~from the meadow, goatHerd
I agree with your assment, and I think that anyone who complains about prices being too high on SR is taking it seriously for granted.
I mean, isn't it awesome that a place like this exists? Do you realize what the existence of SR does for you? Not having to deal person to person with some very very VERY fucked up people (most of the time), and having to put yourself in dangerous situations and go to dangerous neighborhoods?
-
What cost of doing business?
-
The Bitcoin is a powerful tool for buyers to retain anonymity but I am finding it very difficult to work with as an investment tool as I'd like to offer clients guaranteed returns on their investment and the coins are simply too volatile. Have any other sellers had problems with this or do you take this into account when deciding your prices?
V.
-
The Bitcoin is a powerful tool for buyers to retain anonymity but I am finding it very difficult to work with as an investment tool as I'd like to offer clients guaranteed returns on their investment and the coins are simply too volatile. Have any other sellers had problems with this or do you take this into account when deciding your prices?
V.
Unfortunately, the Bitcoin currency volatility is something that cannot be avoided. I wouldn't try to use Bitcoins as an investing tool; you just have to hedge as best you can.
I wasn't keen on the whole Bitcoin thing from the beginning, and I'm still not a huge fan of all of it, but if it keeps everyone safe then I'm willing to make the sacrifice.
If you remember that both sellers and buyers feel the effects of the currency fluctuation, it's easier to accept taking a loss in certain situations. However, I have found that simply contacting the buyer/seller and explaining your position if there is a problem can work, for instance, I took about a $100 loss (more, probably) on an order that I was working on, and I simply contacted the seller and asked if we could split the loss down the middle, each absorbing half of the loss from my end. He was more than willing to do it, and that helped earn some trust with me big time.
-
What cost of doing business?
Are you serious?
-
But, I would say that the cost isn't high enough. I see many people who sell their product entirely too cheap,
What??? The prices on here are at the very least 100% higher than normal every day prices. They're like 3, 4, 5, sometimes 10 times what they would cost IRL.
Adderall goes for like $2.00/mg here... it's worth $0.10/mg or $0.20/mg when students and coworkers sell it to each other.
Cocaine goes for $350/3.5g here... you can buy it from strangers off the street for $120/3.5g in most cities...
LSD goes for like $15/dose here... it's usually $3 to $7 per dose for me and a decade ago it was $0.50 to $2 per dose usually.
Hydromorphone tabs are like $4.00/mg here... on the street they're $0.25 to $1.00/mg.
Opana 40mg's cost like $5 each in India, but they sell for over $100 each here...
Can you name any drugs which are inexpensive here, other than MDMA?
-
Can you name any drugs which are inexpensive here, other than MDMA?
It's the whole issue with a global market as SR. As long as there are enough buyers from regions where certain drugs are expensive, you won't see a lower price here.
For instance: in NL street coke goes for 50 euro/g (about 65 usd), higher quality will up the price. Here on SR I pay only slightly more (but I do get better quality) - so I'm quite happy with the coke prices. On the other hand I will never buy MDMA on SR. 50 usd/g is overpriced, as I source high quality MDMA locally for 25 eur/g (30 usd).
-
But, I would say that the cost isn't high enough. I see many people who sell their product entirely too cheap,
What??? The prices on here are at the very least 100% higher than normal every day prices. They're like 3, 4, 5, sometimes 10 times what they would cost IRL.
Adderall goes for like $2.00/mg here... it's worth $0.10/mg or $0.20/mg when students and coworkers sell it to each other.
Cocaine goes for $350/3.5g here... you can buy it from strangers off the street for $120/3.5g in most cities...
LSD goes for like $15/dose here... it's usually $3 to $7 per dose for me and a decade ago it was $0.50 to $2 per dose usually.
Hydromorphone tabs are like $4.00/mg here... on the street they're $0.25 to $1.00/mg.
Opana 40mg's cost like $5 each in India, but they sell for over $100 each here...
Can you name any drugs which are inexpensive here, other than MDMA?
You're not understanding what I'm saying. I think even people on the street aren't charging enough for their drugs. Some of them are, but some definitely aren't. When you take into consideration the risk involved and the demand for certain drugs, the price should be much higher than it is.
For example, some people on the street are still charging $100 per gram for methamphetamine, and that's how much it cost 20 years ago!! Yeah, I think considering inflation, demand, and the new penalties involved, it should be at least double that. This has caused so many buyers who aren't connected to the source to expect to get it at $100 per gram, hell, you are probably one of them. One gram of meth should last someone days, and maybe even over a week. Charging $100 per gram for it makes some people think that they could go through a gram in a day or two, which is insane, yet we see it happen time and time again! Not only a waste of good drugs, but very dangerous for the person.
-
..if costs are too high we are loosing the war.
-
Well said my friend - I have been putting out feelers on another thread for people interested in investing their Bitcoin earnings but response has been lukewarm to say the least. I work for a Hedge Funds company and we avoid currency fluctuations by spreading investments over a basket of currencies, a significant portion of which are sunk into tangible assets. (This obviously is nothing new and many e-Currencies do the same - google "Ven")
It would seem however the criminal underworld are happy to live free now and not have a care for the future. Of course I suppose any dealers interested in cashing in could just withdraw 100K into a briefcase and keep it under their bed but it sounds like a rather stressful way to spend your Twilight years!
V.
The Bitcoin is a powerful tool for buyers to retain anonymity but I am finding it very difficult to work with as an investment tool as I'd like to offer clients guaranteed returns on their investment and the coins are simply too volatile. Have any other sellers had problems with this or do you take this into account when deciding your prices?
V.
Unfortunately, the Bitcoin currency volatility is something that cannot be avoided. I wouldn't try to use Bitcoins as an investing tool; you just have to hedge as best you can.
I wasn't keen on the whole Bitcoin thing from the beginning, and I'm still not a huge fan of all of it, but if it keeps everyone safe then I'm willing to make the sacrifice.
If you remember that both sellers and buyers feel the effects of the currency fluctuation, it's easier to accept taking a loss in certain situations. However, I have found that simply contacting the buyer/seller and explaining your position if there is a problem can work, for instance, I took about a $100 loss (more, probably) on an order that I was working on, and I simply contacted the seller and asked if we could split the loss down the middle, each absorbing half of the loss from my end. He was more than willing to do it, and that helped earn some trust with me big time.
-
To kidx, what in THE f*ck are you talking about? You play this game knowing the consequences. What the game is worth to one person, may not be worth it to another person.
Supply and demand, dictates what one can charge and what one cannot charge. Lower to middle class clientele have a particular threshold, and normally value quantity over quality and are more price sensitive. Upper middle class to wealthy, customarily, want the best. Money is not an issue, but convenience and quality is.
I say that to say, you know the risks of this game when you enter. Even though one has participated, no amount of money is logically worth the risk...just something you can live with. Honestly, IRL, unless you are in this game to make no profit until you can get 10 grand for an attorney, it is not for you. 90% of cats don't make 10 grand in this game before it is game over. But even if you could make double, triple or quintuple that, it still isn't "worth" it because you can't spend your money while you are incarcerated.
It just comes down to not giving a single f*ck, loving the facade of freedom while dealing, and living the life how you want under the radar.
-
To kidx, what in THE f*ck are you talking about? You play this game knowing the consequences. What the game is worth to one person, may not be worth it to another person.
Supply and demand, dictates what one can charge and what one cannot charge. Lower to middle class clientele have a particular threshold, and normally value quantity over quality and are more price sensitive. Upper middle class to wealthy, customarily, want the best. Money is not an issue, but convenience and quality is.
I say that to say, you know the risks of this game when you enter. Even though one has participated, no amount of money is logically worth the risk...just something you can live with. Honestly, IRL, unless you are in this game to make no profit until you can get 10 grand for an attorney, it is not for you. 90% of cats don't make 10 grand in this game before it is game over. But even if you could make double, triple or quintuple that, it still isn't "worth" it because you can't spend your money while you are incarcerated.
It just comes down to not giving a single f*ck, loving the facade of freedom while dealing, and living the life how you want under the radar.
Oh, I know all that. Supply and demand aren't some foreign concept to me.
It's just my opinion that a lot of people aren't charging enough for their drugs. I actually do have good cause to believe that through my experience, and certainly I'm entitled to my opinion.
I think that there are too many "middle men" dealers who aren't as business savvy or connected, and sometimes they are impulsive, so many of their decisions aren't the best ones. Many people, for instance, are perfectly happy to sell drugs just so that they get their own drugs for free. So, their addiction is the driving factor, not profiting in any other way.
There are also those who are simply drawn to it because they want to be a part of a underground drug culture. I'm sure you've met certain people who use drugs as a way of attracting women, so it's kind of like that. Their motivation isn't monetary gain at all, and they'll take a loss just so that they can feel cool.
Last, I think there are too many people trying to sell drugs that can't or won't sell to people who are willing to pay higher prices. They sell to only one demographic, so they think that what they are selling it for is the market rate, but that's untrue when there's a market of individuals demanding the product that don't have access to it. Many people with money are either too afraid or don't want to deal with some of these shady, scumbag dealers, and when some of them do they end up getting robbed or taken advantage of. If you have the ability to tap into that market you can easily double the price of what you now feel is the market rate.
It's cool, though. You do what you do, and I'll do what I do.
I know this: I ain't talking about no bullshit 10 grand, that's for sure...start adding zeroes to that figure, and maybe your will start to think that it's worth the risk.
-
You know what, I totally agree with your last response.
I was not able to glean that from your first few responses but you absolutely correct about the seller types.
Did this sh!t as a business. Never touched the supply. Treated like eBay.
However, most customers that were out there would tell me, "I used to do it, then I started "doing" it, and couldn't make any money."
I'm with you all the way, I am just mad as sh!t that I am a F2F vendor and I use SR as my supplier when they are retailers! ;D
-
Well said my friend - I have been putting out feelers on another thread for people interested in investing their Bitcoin earnings but response has been lukewarm to say the least. I work for a Hedge Funds company and we avoid currency fluctuations by spreading investments over a basket of currencies, a significant portion of which are sunk into tangible assets. (This obviously is nothing new and many e-Currencies do the same - google "Ven")
It would seem however the criminal underworld are happy to live free now and not have a care for the future. Of course I suppose any dealers interested in cashing in could just withdraw 100K into a briefcase and keep it under their bed but it sounds like a rather stressful way to spend your Twilight years!
V.
Vladimir,
What are the likely downsides to simply leaving the Bitcoin as Bitcoin. What is the longterm likely direction of the Bitcoin?
It seems to me that one perfectly good option is simply to keep one's Bitcoins from vending (or at least a sizeable chunk of them) as Bitcoins and wait to see where the chips fall?
Another simple option is convert them to Pecunix. Gold is performing quite well and can be expected to continue to appreciate.
Lastly one could simply convert the Bitcoins to physical bullion.
I am not an investment professional.. but is there an obvious reason NOT to leave part as Bitcoins, part as digital gold currency and the rest as physical metals.. assuming one is more interested in growing drugs and selling them than in portfolio management??
-
Another simple option is convert them to Pecunix. Gold is performing quite well and can be expected to continue to appreciate.
How do you convert bitcoins to Pecunix in a simple way?!?!
-
Another simple option is convert them to Pecunix. Gold is performing quite well and can be expected to continue to appreciate.
How do you convert bitcoins to Pecunix in a simple way?!?!
I could be being an idiot but google pulled up several options in the first page of "bitcoin to pecunix". Usually when I get those kind of results on a search, and since they are both e-currency, I assume it would be feasible to convert them. I should have been more clear.. I may have mispoken.. it's the "idea" that's simple.. run a currency swap then hold the result. (I have *NOT* tried this personally yet FWIW.)
This possibly? https://wm-center.com/rates.php?type=exch
As opposed to trying to execute a complex stock strategy or pick a good hedge fund. Vladimir talks like he is pro or semi-pro at the investment game. Swapping bitcoin to pecunix (or dollars to yen etc.) would be a pretty simple idea to a financial pro.
Might be a complicated bitch to a simple fungi farmer like myself though.. but I love gold. It's understandable. I mistrust exotic financial instruments concocted by people just as smart as me who spent their lives learning investment banking rather than.. er.. what I mispent my youth learning!).
-
Well said my friend - I have been putting out feelers on another thread for people interested in investing their Bitcoin earnings but response has been lukewarm to say the least. I work for a Hedge Funds company and we avoid currency fluctuations by spreading investments over a basket of currencies, a significant portion of which are sunk into tangible assets. (This obviously is nothing new and many e-Currencies do the same - google "Ven")
It would seem however the criminal underworld are happy to live free now and not have a care for the future. Of course I suppose any dealers interested in cashing in could just withdraw 100K into a briefcase and keep it under their bed but it sounds like a rather stressful way to spend your Twilight years!
V.
The Bitcoin is a powerful tool for buyers to retain anonymity but I am finding it very difficult to work with as an investment tool as I'd like to offer clients guaranteed returns on their investment and the coins are simply too volatile. Have any other sellers had problems with this or do you take this into account when deciding your prices?
V.
Unfortunately, the Bitcoin currency volatility is something that cannot be avoided. I wouldn't try to use Bitcoins as an investing tool; you just have to hedge as best you can.
I wasn't keen on the whole Bitcoin thing from the beginning, and I'm still not a huge fan of all of it, but if it keeps everyone safe then I'm willing to make the sacrifice.
If you remember that both sellers and buyers feel the effects of the currency fluctuation, it's easier to accept taking a loss in certain situations. However, I have found that simply contacting the buyer/seller and explaining your position if there is a problem can work, for instance, I took about a $100 loss (more, probably) on an order that I was working on, and I simply contacted the seller and asked if we could split the loss down the middle, each absorbing half of the loss from my end. He was more than willing to do it, and that helped earn some trust with me big time.
Wow, what a surprise, that people don't really trust hedge fund companies in this day and age.
I wonder why that is? It's almost as if some recent economic event has caused people to not want to invest their money in these types of speculative enterprises...
-
Hi Philter,
Thanks for your message.
To answer your question why it isn't a good idea to leave a large portion of your profits as Bitcoins I'd have to say that they have no inherent value in and of themselves and the value attributed to them by those who trade on SR for example is constantly up and down. That doesn't mean to say you can't profit from the Bitcoin directly, for example by buying them from one exchange for a certain price then selling them in another - or indeed simply buying a shed load of them and waiting until they appreciate in value but in my opinion it smacks too much of throwing one's eggs in one basket.
You're absolutely right in saying that it would make sense to convert Bitcoins to another e-currency such as Pecunix or to precious metals but there are fees involved in so doing and even if you end up with a neat stack of gold bars under your bed, it's a far cry from that to nicely laundered funds sitting in a bank account in your name which you can use towards improving your lifestyle and/or a comfortable retirement.
I joined SR as I realised that decent and successful vendors could well be sitting on a mountain of Bitcoins, the value of which could fall away any second - withdrawing the money as cash/bullion attracts hefty fees and also draws suspicion to them. In my view what's needed is a way to invest Bitcoins and receive it as cash plus interest in regular instalments into one's bank account.
Would love to hear all your thoughts on this.
V.
Well said my friend - I have been putting out feelers on another thread for people interested in investing their Bitcoin earnings but response has been lukewarm to say the least. I work for a Hedge Funds company and we avoid currency fluctuations by spreading investments over a basket of currencies, a significant portion of which are sunk into tangible assets. (This obviously is nothing new and many e-Currencies do the same - google "Ven")
It would seem however the criminal underworld are happy to live free now and not have a care for the future. Of course I suppose any dealers interested in cashing in could just withdraw 100K into a briefcase and keep it under their bed but it sounds like a rather stressful way to spend your Twilight years!
V.
Vladimir,
What are the likely downsides to simply leaving the Bitcoin as Bitcoin. What is the longterm likely direction of the Bitcoin?
It seems to me that one perfectly good option is simply to keep one's Bitcoins from vending (or at least a sizeable chunk of them) as Bitcoins and wait to see where the chips fall?
Another simple option is convert them to Pecunix. Gold is performing quite well and can be expected to continue to appreciate.
Lastly one could simply convert the Bitcoins to physical bullion.
I am not an investment professional.. but is there an obvious reason NOT to leave part as Bitcoins, part as digital gold currency and the rest as physical metals.. assuming one is more interested in growing drugs and selling them than in portfolio management??