Quote from: flyfly on June 22, 2012, 08:51 amAll bitcoin is is a ledger.There are NO discrete coins being passed around, no serial numbers, no benjamins, no washingtons and no satoshis. It is a history of transactions over a coin. Like a house, the coin never leaves the lot (miner), the miner just signs away title to it, or a room in it. You can subdivide or aggregate your titles and sign them away too..jim ledgered he gave you 100 btc, ppl looked, said ok and signed it.amy ledgered she gave you 100 btc, ppl looked, said ok and signed it.you ledgered you gave 150 of that 200 (or just any 150 worth of title you have access to) to SR, ppl signed it.can't pay in exact change? no prob, rip a larger title up and give yourself the remainder on the side.SR (or any washer) took that 150 and spammed the ledger with it N number of ways, eventually making an entry giving you 150 back from whatever it had access to, ppl signed it.All washing does it discharge your dirty title history into the cloud.But since everyone else is farting in the cloud too, you're going to get some parts of dirty titles back.Yes, mixers can ensure you don't get your same titles back during that washing session by keeping the addresses separate.After that, all bets are off.Bob could've got your dirt in his session, signed it over to larry who washed it in a future session, then you come by for round two and you now have parts of your dirty titles again.All washing does is trade shit for shit.Only one person ever had guaranteed clean title, the miner who crapped it into the cloud in the first place. And he probably got it from selling weed on SR to buy video cards off BMR shipped to his home address.Washers could guarantee clean title but there is no 'tina stole my btc / scammed me' registry.And there never will be because- central banks and regulators are sooo dead- her anon would be broken by standing up (she sells crack and smokes weed btw)- no anon pki web exists- and none of the three ever will because the whole thing would be fuck all complex and consumeall time/space/energy and full of anon fakes that no one would care. better to just secure your walletsand deal with known entities as usual.You could reject receipt of your own title history by inspecting proposed coin delivery, but then washers (easily fedz, or raided, or ordered) would have a log of that. And washers aren't going to wait around holding allocated bank for you while you sit there trying to avoid the fed by rejecting random coinloads including your own. So that don't work either.OK, so that's what washers don't tell you... you eventually get dirty asscrack coin back, even your own.And BTC/currency traders/exchangers don't tell you that either.It's 6 degrees of freedom and you get dirt. That's all there is to it. (actually more like 2 degrees because the graph is small and half the population is illegal.)Washing is real nice, a bunch of automated buying and selling amongst fake people, it helps, but it's not necessary. Separate addresses per transaction is a MUST, and bitcoin code should do this for you nowadays.No washer, trader, buyer or seller is perfect, uncorruptible, unorderable or lives forever.Any transactions that do hit the real world are subject to takedown, either from someone else's dirt, or your own.Your only defense is to keep 100% of your transactions 100% anonymous.Enjoy that free shipping :)Thanks for this FlyFly - I actually feel a little embarrassed as I actually asked a question earlier today in a thread re: "clean" Bitcoins and you've answered it in your post above! Many thanks again.V.