Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: MrFibonacci on October 20, 2012, 01:34 am
-
This seems to come up a lot with very little answers following the post and more negative or trivial gloating substituted as genuine feedback. I'm willing to bet that the minute after this posts a certain someone will be all over it. Us noobs and sellers still looking for better options can collaborate and figure this out with or without the help of SR heroes. I still don't understand the problem with it anyways. The only people on SR that should have anything to lose are the ones that made a business out of it. All the other vendors should be well protected and smart enough not to reveal their identity or location while simultaneously teaching others to safely procure their well earned money. I know they're busy though. Plus you have to think that the more people that feel it is safe and easy (as easy as this black market shit iz) to become sellers on the road the more products that will be available to everyone. I was going to pick up some 4-MAR and get the mail thing down, but it's an expensive road trip for me and I want to cross this milestone before making any investments. I have done a lot of research in the last 24 hours or so and this is what I've come up with. After a few basic attempts at the threads I got the feeling that these newer posts were useless, especially with this Aidoneus guy runnin' around and crushing them. No offense dude, but making the subject even more taboo than it already is isn't helping anyone. You did point out one thing though:
It is worth noting that there are several vendors who will cash other vendors out using escrow for as low as 25% (on $1000 or more). It sounds high but, objectively, 25% is a pretty damn good rate to receive clean cash in the mail. Out of the escrow system, I've seen as low as 2%... but huge amounts of trust are required here on your end.
.Hades.
In a way yes 25% isn't much. If you think of it as mark up as a drug dealer. I typically like to double or triple my money and there is no cutting money unless you can't print it and I'm pretty sure that's one thing prohibited here (not that I cut my shit either.) But if I'm trying to start an operation the money in the beginning is going to be the most crucial. You already have to plan it out where you wait for escrow and often shipping charges come out of pocket, then you take and cut a quarter of that income. That's rough! Too rough for most of us I imagine. Also exchanging BTC for physical money seems to have a high scam rate.
So, like I was sayin'. These threads weren't doing it so I started from the back of the archives and worked my way forward before all the posts were getting cock blocked and found this to be the most helpful:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=1225.msg11289#msg11289
One good suggestion is to wash your money through an online casino. I have not looked into this yet, but if you guys are interested and beat me to the punch please share what you've learned and your thoughts or ideas. As with anything on this, because we can make it a small communal thread for us trying to seriously learn about this for us buy us. By all means though if an experienced vendor steps up and wants to drop some solid education on the matter I would be honored.
Then it mentions fake I.D's and Western Union. Fake I.D's seem to be a very viable option, but WU is still a bad idea I think. At least for long time arrangements. I have a link that has a lot of good information on it; including why WU is not a safe asset, but there's one last segway leading to it that's in the last post.
Off shore bank accounts. Untraceable and basically unlimited. The person in the last post mentions how lucky they are to have family in the region to personally accommodate such a resource for them, but for most of us this is an expensive, but the safest thing we could do. A lot of it is explained here with good resources named off:
http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/black-hat-seo/184931-way-accept-money-transfer-anonymously.html
That cloning hardware mentioned sure does sound like a lot of fun! I am most definitely interested in getting one of those fancy accounts. Some sound even more reasonable in price than others. They talk of money cards which is a pretty good option too. These require a social security number which will jeopardize your anonymity unless you give a real one that doesn't belong to you or anyone you associate with for that matter. I read somewhere, I believe on these forums, that there is an algorithm for generating these and I think that a few people on SR can get one for you or help you find it on your own. I don't remember exactly. Here is an interesting post on how to make an anonymous PayPal account with some information on that too. It goes hand in hand with cards:
http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/spiderzq/15460-how-setup-anonymous-untraceable-paypal-account.html
This is the conclusion I've drawn so far. It is my understanding that the IRS has no knowledge of your bank accounts and funds unless your bank suspects you of money laundering. I read several times that banks don't share your finances with the IRS unless you receive or send 10 grand or more unless they find you suspicious. Then they may choose to. But I don't trust the government as much as a two way mirror. I was worried this was just accepted fact and wanted a little more assurance. My mind was eased when I read a few bankers supported this ideal online:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060808125149AAlUIEh
Until I'm swayed otherwise I feel it is safe to use the bank until I can afford to get one of those secret bank accounts. It's just deciding how to go about it I'm still teetering over. I personally am a huge fan of bitfloor. It's still awkward time to time to ask my banker to put hundreds of dollars into a mysterious account, but it is so clean! Pulling money out it is different. You have to register with them using a photo ID. That seems counterproductive to go through a company that makes it so easy to buy BTC without any identity trace and turn around and give them your personal information. I could go the phony route, but I'm thinking if I create a separate bitfloor account from the one I make deposits with and then use the second one to send the money to my bank account using another median like Dwolla or Liberty Reserve (Any preferences?) my accounts shouldn't be tied together by any means. I'd like share what I think is safe for acquiring BTC and hear your thoughts on it. Bitfloor is completely anonymous when you deposit money into your account through a bank.That money is converted to BTC and wired to SR. Silk Road tumbles that money every time it goes through escrow. I think it's paranoid to tumble them again after it's ran through Silk Road. It makes sense to use Bitcoin Fog or something if you're dumb enough to use Mt. Gox. (Even if it Mt. Gox was equally safe as alternative BTC exchanges people don't see that Mt. Gox is evil and most likely infiltrated. Mt. Gox is the biggest provider of BTC and requires thorough identifiers because it is mainstream. Support the underground not the monopoly.) So visa versa it is logical that if a vendor receives money through SR's escrow it should be safe to send your money to an exchange site once and then get a new SR address, right? From there it's converted to your currency and then to the median to the bank. To not arouse suspicion deposit the money into your bank account on the same week day at the same time. This will simply look like direct deposit and no bank would find it suspicious. If you don't think my logic's sound on this I welcome opinions and constructive criticism. I worked really hard at putting this together, because I felt there's a demand for it and I naturally care. I also am no fool in thinking I have this perfectly mapped out and am pleased to hear what you think.
One final thing I'm checking into is this:
http://coinabul.com/index.php/
I haven't got to checking out if the money is sound pertaining to my local area, but it's definitely worth looking into. It could be a good way to go around the bank altogether. If anyone checks it out for themselves please share what you find.
Thanks for listening,
Peace and love
-
Just keepin' it fresh. 60 plus views and no ideas, or was it just too long of a read for any one to care? Could use some support. I'll check more into the gold thing on Monday.I'll pretend to be optimistic and imagine you all studying. :D "Yeah, that's it." Haha
-
Deposits of more than $10,000 are reported to the IRS. I can verify this personally, as I've been asked to give ID when making large cash deposits for my boss. They're also watching for closely-bunched deposits that add up to $10,000, to ensure that people aren't just depositing $5,000 on three consecutive days in order to skirt the ID requirement. It's called 'structuring', and the banks run software to detect this sort of thing.
Banks are required by law to report deposits that they deem 'suspicious', and these reports are kept secret from the customer. If you're depositing large amounts of money into a bank account, those transactions are on paper, and if the IRS decides to take a closer look, you're going to have to explain it. If you're small-time, this might not be a problem, but there's no guarantee. The IRS doesn't go away, and they're really fucking good at getting their pound of flesh.
Remember also that Al Capone was brought down by the IRS, and not the FBI. 'Follow the money' isn't just good advice if you're trying to catch a president who breaks the law. It works for the regular criminals as well.
Limetless offers consultation on money laundering at a fee. It's probably money well spent if you're looking to stay out of prison.
I'd just use the money to buy a lifetime's supply of MDMA. It never goes bad (in our lifetimes, at least), it's easily convertable to cash, and there's no paper trail.
-
One final thing I'm checking into is this:
http://coinabul.com/index.php/
I haven't got to checking out if the money is sound pertaining to my local area, but it's definitely worth looking into. It could be a good way to go around the bank altogether. If anyone checks it out for themselves please share what you find.
Just a quick comment on CoinaBul: They're legit. Slow! (Takes 2 to 3 weeks to get your bullion.) But they are legit. And in America, anyway, American gold is as good as cash. No records need be kept by the dealers. So if you do decide to go btc -> gold -> cash, make sure you buy Eagles, not Krugerrands or some other foreign bullion.
If CoinaBul wasn't so freeking slow, they'd be a darned good answer if you're in a area where you can actually get cash for your gold. Some dealers want to give you a check. Okay if you want to have to claim that money on your taxes, I suppose, but personally I don't consider checks a long term answer. If I wanted to claim the money, I'd use an exchange and put it in the bank (or on my PayPal card) directly.
-
Two things...
First, you're completely misunderstanding my responses to threads with similar topics. If you look at threads that are much older than my even being on the forums (> 2 months), you'll see that the same information is given... I'm not out to make the topic 'more taboo,' I'm simply responding with the same information I found when we went looking for an answer ourselves. I'm sorry if you don't like the answer... it's just the way it is. I'm not cock blocking anything.
Second...
The only people on SR that should have anything to lose are the ones that made a business out of it. All the other vendors should be well protected and smart enough not to reveal their identity or location while simultaneously teaching others to safely procure their well earned money. I know they're busy though.
THIS right here proves that you just don't get it. I'm sure that the majority of people here are advocates of open information and sharing to make the community better — ourselves included — but this just isn't one of the topics that applies to. The reason the information isn't shared is not for fear of giving up ones location or identity, it's for fear of rendering those methods useless or less effective. If such things were common knowledge, it would be that much easier for LE and/or other agencies/organizations to either stop, track, or identify us. If you think they aren't on here reading the same forums you are then you are either incredibly naive, at best, or completely stupid, at worst. Overall, these are the reasons why people like Limitless can charge a premium for such information...
This isn't an attack on you, I just want you to understand the issue as it's very clear you don't. As another posted mentioned, Al Capone was brought down because he failed Money Laundering 201. It's not easy nor should it be taken lightly. Yet another reason the information isn't freely available. Sorry, but for some things you need to be creative and thoroughly think things through on your own. While there is a wealth of information on these forums (and others), I doubt there are many people who will hold your hand through certain facets of business such as ours... and certainly nobody that will do it for free beyond some basic info.
Maybe I'm completely off base, but I doubt it. I'd certainly love some senior vendors to chime in as much as you would... trust that. Time will tell.
.Hades.
-
Oh, also... the online casino thing is a pretty solid idea. Except for the fact that the 30%+ tax you'd have to pay the Government is more than the aforementioned 25% fee to exchange for cash (in some cases... considerably more). Still a decent idea if you want to go 'legit.'
.Hades.
-
And in America, anyway, American gold is as good as cash. No records need be kept by the dealers. So if you do decide to go btc -> gold -> cash, make sure you buy Eagles, not Krugerrands or some other foreign bullion.
I never heard this before. I thought all gold was viewed equal. Do you have any further information on this subject?
Thanks.
-
Some distributors of bullion log the movements of their product through registration, serial numbers, and certificates. I believe this is what (s)he is referring to.
.Hades.
-
And in America, anyway, American gold is as good as cash. No records need be kept by the dealers. So if you do decide to go btc -> gold -> cash, make sure you buy Eagles, not Krugerrands or some other foreign bullion.
I never heard this before. I thought all gold was viewed equal. Do you have any further information on this subject?
Thanks.
Sure. Here's a quick link: http://goldsilver.com/article/irs-1099-gold-reporting-private-gold-private-silver-bullion/
There are MANY others. Google "gold reporting requirements" and you'll be deluged.
-
I'd just use the money to buy a lifetime's supply of MDMA. It never goes bad (in our lifetimes, at least), it's easily convertable to cash, and there's no paper trail.
I'm sorry... You got me there. What's "MDMA"?
-
mdma is what they make ecstacy pills out of ,he means buy that with your coins on here and sell local as a way of cashing out so u dont need any banks and u can make more if mdma sells fast and is expencive were u live ,u can do same with any product that u can get here and sells easy local
-
I would like to chime in on a few different things here.... First I'd like to say that WU is an awesome option... I cant speak for all locations but I have locations I know about where no ID is needed to send money under 10k.
Also.. If you are lucky you may even have people in WU that can pull the money out on the other side and then send it in the mail ;)
....
Now.. I am also talking to someone in the gold business.. As soon as he gets the OK from his lawyers he plans to come online and sell gold for BTC...
He might not be on this site for obvious reasons but he wil be around and that will be a good way to turn btc into cash..
As for depositing BTC into your a bank account with your real name on it,... well if you do that then you deserve whats coming to you and thats all I can say about that.
Online casinos-to bank account... better idea but still some issues... You may be asked later to prove these winnings and you wont be able to and as such can be proven that the BTC were only sent from the casino and not earned at the casino.. Even if you put them all in play at some point you may be asked to divulge your deposits into your account and player history (I have seen it happen on legit sites) and then the gig is up..
The best way to do it is btc for cash... either mail or WU in my opinion... but hey... what do I know?
He is gonna charge something I assure you, and most probably will be around 25%
-
Maybe I'm completely off base, but I doubt it. I'd certainly love some senior vendors to chime in as much as you would... trust that. Time will tell.
.Hades.
And my point is that you haven't really helped anyone by telling them no one will help them five times over. It looks like to me you just post to feel better about yourself. You're not attacking me, but I'm either really ignorant or really stupid. Yeah thanks dude. It sounds like your off base to me. You're not sure either you're just representing the people that do. What are you they're secretary or something. (That's rhetorical/No"?") I think it's ignorant to think that the system doesn't already know every single way to launder money. They probably did all of them first. The idea is they can't really stop it unless they catch them. Just like they can't currently stop the road from doing it's thing. Either that or they're allowing it, because somehow they're benefiting from it. But I don't see how they could.
I've used WU a few times. And I always get carded from amounts of a hundred to seven hundred. That could just be my area, but it's not of much use to me. And if it were a long term safe route dude wouldn't have got busted by the CIA or whatever it was in the link.
I still haven't followed up on if the gold pay out is equal in my area, but it's good to here that it works for some. You're right though. That's a long time after you get your stuff out of escrow. That's a minimum 3 to 5 week wait per transaction. And you would probably want to buy volume instead of doing it for every transaction. So you'd wait to buy the gold 'til it feels worth making the drop. This Coinibul doesn't do express mail at a reasonable expense or what?
I didn't say deposit BTC into my bank, but yeah anonymous money into a bank account with my name on it. You think it's too risky to do that for a few months until I could afford on of those bank accounts? It shouldn't arouse suspicion if you deposit a small enough amount with regularity, should it?
I can't push MDMA anymore. That's basically why I'm doing this. There's too much competition right now. I'm no gangster. I want to sell something unique on the Silk Road and get cash for it.
-
Maybe I'm completely off base, but I doubt it. I'd certainly love some senior vendors to chime in as much as you would... trust that. Time will tell.
.Hades.
And my point is that you haven't really helped anyone by telling them no one will help them five times over. It looks like to me you just post to feel better about yourself. You're not attacking me, but I'm either really ignorant or really stupid. Yeah thanks dude. It sounds like your off base to me. You're not sure either you're just representing the people that do. What are you they're secretary or something. (That's rhetorical/No"?") I think it's ignorant to think that the system doesn't already know every single way to launder money. They probably did all of them first. The idea is they can't really stop it unless they catch them. Just like they can't currently stop the road from doing it's thing. Either that or they're allowing it, because somehow they're benefiting from it. But I don't see how they could.
I've used WU a few times. And I always get carded from amounts of a hundred to seven hundred. That could just be my area, but it's not of much use to me. And if it were a long term safe route dude wouldn't have got busted by the CIA or whatever it was in the link.
I still haven't followed up on if the gold pay out is equal in my area, but it's good to here that it works for some. You're right though. That's a long time after you get your stuff out of escrow. That's a minimum 3 to 5 week wait per transaction. And you would probably want to buy volume instead of doing it for every transaction. So you'd wait to buy the gold 'til it feels worth making the drop. This Coinibul doesn't do express mail at a reasonable expense or what?
I didn't say deposit BTC into my bank, but yeah anonymous money into a bank account with my name on it. You think it's too risky to do that for a few months until I could afford on of those bank accounts? It shouldn't arouse suspicion if you deposit a small enough amount with regularity, should it?
I can't push MDMA anymore. That's basically why I'm doing this. There's too much competition right now. I'm no gangster. I want to sell something unique on the Silk Road and get cash for it.
Gold's good but you got to keep in in small amounts... also to avoid some laws it needs to be jewelery form.. so a 24K Indian gold wedding piece for example... Anyways... Good luck here on the road.. I was gonna come after the MDMA vendors because in Montreal you can get boom shit for between 5-7k a KG but the risk of doing time and becoming a target by LE has forced me to not got that route and just carry top of the line buds!
-
Maybe I'm completely off base, but I doubt it. I'd certainly love some senior vendors to chime in as much as you would... trust that. Time will tell.
.Hades.
And my point is that you haven't really helped anyone by telling them no one will help them five times over. .... -snip-
Look man, I +1 you for effort and goodwill. Aidoneus is right though. Just think about what you are doing. Basically you want to post a manual for LE on how and where to trace the money in an open forum. Something like that would be flat out reckless.
Just imagine you were to say...uhm..."and then we get a prepaid debit card from soandso", blam, now you have a bunch of would be vendors running around using debit cards from the same issuer ever so happily informing LE where to take a closer look. Are you even aware how easy it would become to do correlation analysis and pick them out? Keep in mind that this forum is more than likely scraped by every relevant law enforcement agency there is for later analysis, archived prolly forever.
I commend you on wanting to put in the effort, but exposing hidden money trails by posting them in an open forum kinda would make 'em no longer hidden money trails, wouldn't it?
-
+1
I'm absolutely not trying to cut anyone's legs out from under them before they get started. We are having to figure it out for ourselves as well, so it's not as though we're trying to speak on high about the subject.
.Hades.
-
BTC -> Gold has been around for quite bit, nothing too new.
http://coinabul.com/
Can't recommend it though.
-
there are sellers who offer anonymous prepaid visa debit cards
buy one, then use the appropriate site to convert your coins to cash onto the card, withdraw it at an ATM wearing sunglasses and a hat
these cards have a max balance of $999, and an aggregate amount of $5000 per 30 days
so im assuming that means you can send $999 to it 5 times before its rendered useless for the month
still, $5000 per month for the price of the card is good. and you can just buy more cards
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/3a64cbb8d9
-
BTC -> Gold has been around for quite bit, nothing too new.
http://coinabul.com/
Can't recommend it though.
LMAO...that son of a bitch!!!! Let me tell you something.. that number in canada to contact them...hahahahah..... telus prepaid montreal!!!
REPRESENT......
;)
-
there are sellers who offer anonymous prepaid visa debit cards
buy one, then use the appropriate site to convert your coins to cash onto the card, withdraw it at an ATM wearing sunglasses and a hat
these cards have a max balance of $999, and an aggregate amount of $5000 per 30 days
so im assuming that means you can send $999 to it 5 times before its rendered useless for the month
still, $5000 per month for the price of the card is good. and you can just buy more cards
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/3a64cbb8d9
I thought anything regarding CC was not able to be sold on SR, maybe there is a line I am unware of. Either way, those cards are severely limited (as you mentioned) in most peoples opinions
-
I had the understanding that it was referring to selling "stolen" cards.
Selling visa cards that you fill with your own money I don't think is against the rules, though someone correct me if I'm wrong.
-
Is it really such a big deal in your countries to find someone who would buy your BTC in RL where you could send a gofer? What are you afraid of?
I'm planning to start such a business here on SR first for Europe.
-
mdma is what they make ecstacy pills out of ,he means buy that with your coins on here and sell local as a way of cashing out so u dont need any banks and u can make more if mdma sells fast and is expencive were u live ,u can do same with any product that u can get here and sells easy local
Thanks for that. :)
-
BTC -> Gold has been around for quite bit, nothing too new.
http://coinabul.com/
Can't recommend it though.
If by "recommend" the expectation is: Will they send you your gold, then yes, I can recommend them. They've never not shipped me bullion I've paid for.
If by "recommend" you mean does "express" mean express? Then no, I cannot recommend them. They're beyond slow. I've had them take 3 weeks to ship an order. The norm is 2 weeks and I've never seen a shipment shipped in less than 7 days. Too, communication sucks. They're supposed to send emails confirming orders and when shipped and so on. I've never gotten them. I've talked to the chappy on the phone a few times. I get the feeling that Coinabul is a one man show. Nothing wrong with that, as long as he's got his shit together. And that, IMO, is dubious.
There is another vendor on the web who sells gold for bitcoin, but the minimum order is 4 ounces. I don't remember the url right now. If anyone cares, drop me a line and I'll go dig it up again. I've never tried them, but they claim that they ship promptly etc. etc.
Another poster here said a friend was going to setup shop as a bullion vendor. I hope s/he does, and I hope s/he has the cash flow to be able to promptly fill orders. Coinabul needs some competition in the smaller purchases arena.
-
Maybe I'm completely off base, but I doubt it. I'd certainly love some senior vendors to chime in as much as you would... trust that. Time will tell.
.Hades.
And my point is that you haven't really helped anyone by telling them no one will help them five times over. .... -snip-
Look man, I +1 you for effort and goodwill. Aidoneus is right though. Just think about what you are doing. Basically you want to post a manual for LE on how and where to trace the money in an open forum. Something like that would be flat out reckless.
Just imagine you were to say...uhm..."and then we get a prepaid debit card from soandso", blam, now you have a bunch of would be vendors running around using debit cards from the same issuer ever so happily informing LE where to take a closer look. Are you even aware how easy it would become to do correlation analysis and pick them out? Keep in mind that this forum is more than likely scraped by every relevant law enforcement agency there is for later analysis, archived prolly forever.
I commend you on wanting to put in the effort, but exposing hidden money trails by posting them in an open forum kinda would make 'em no longer hidden money trails, wouldn't it?
I thank you sir for the good karma. I like being commended(:, but I guess I just don't understand. There shouldn't be a risk on the Tor right? I thought that was the point. It's not traceable, so as long as no one posts an unencrypted physical address... but yeah, you're right I am totally unaware of correlation analysis or how it works. I thought "hidden" was hidden. How is it different from the highest selling vendors on the road? I'm not trying to argue or come off sarcastic. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.
I'd like to add that that visa actually looks pretty good. I think it's better the others I've seen. But either way I gotta hold off on on vending just yet. I was hoping to get this set up earlier so I could afford some professional help, but I had to use my seed money. I'll probably be back to this thread in due time. I still think it's a good idea to keep it going and open to more sharing.
-
Limetless offer's information on safely laundering and cashing out etc. His price is high as fuck, but what's the comprable price of going to prison?
-
I am now offering a complete launder and cash out guide PM me for more info!
I. Introduction
Many vendors of cashout methods have convinced others and even themselves that this is a complex process which requires wizardry and thousands of dollars in knowledge to achieve. This could not be further from the truth. Others have changed their listings from $10,000 to say $1,000 in weekly maximum withdrawals and don't even seem to know the security of their own methods or how to launder properly. This simple, cost-effective guide contains all you need to cash out and launder ALL of your SR earnings safely. A backup method for smaller amounts is also disclosed.
-
Just a note .... unless it's already been answered.
Yes all gold is equal, but certain distributor's of it are considered more 'valuable' or more 'desirable' when being sold on the gold market because as I think someone said already IN PART, that they carry a more stringent auditing system and a simpler, faster, more reliable, and more trustable mean's of keeping track of their gold stock, where it came from, when, how, who measured it's purity and mass, etc. so gold investor's (and the big ones are rich as fuck ... and you know richies go for the 'brand name' type shit) will prefer to purchase their gold from one distributor over another.
But it's value is exactly the same, it's just a matter of which distributor is more ultimately more trustable then the others. I think another user gave his view on which one to go with and which one to avoid, both will work, but go with what this user has said cuz it sounds like he know's the gold market well enough to know which gold is 'of more value' (even though they all carry the same MONETARY value).
Or at least do your homework on which distributor to purchase from before you go dropping a tonne of bitcoins on a troy ounce bar of gold :D. Though i've heard coins are the way to go, and this is probably true because a bar is heavy as fuck, worth a lot in one package vs. coins that are worth less each, but same of a 1 troy ounce bar if you buy 1 troy ounce mass of coins. In other words just more flexibible in how you sell your gold, instead of one huge lump sum bar vs. many equal value in total coins, but each coin only being of a smaller value.
Anyways, perhaps this was a pointless post lol, but just trying to throw my 2 cents in there from my admittedly small amount of experience with the purchase of gold, but I still do have ..... a bit of experience buying it :).
-
Some distributors of bullion log the movements of their product through registration, serial numbers, and certificates. I believe this is what (s)he is referring to.
.Hades.
Never, ever get cash off of here.
You know I might sound paranoid but.. the LE could set up a vendor account, offering large chunks of cash at fair prices and then vendors will use the service to cash out.
Lets say you cash out $10.000.
The LE send you the money.
But what do the LE do? Mark the notes.
Then when you come to leave feedback, they know you have received - they alert the department in the area that you have sent the cash too and you have the LE turn up at the door, and what do they find? The marked cash (possibly even drugs) and the person receiving the money can't deny they didn't know what it was, and they can't deny using SR.
Even if the package is being sent to a friend or whatever, they would have to be pretty fucking loyal not to open their mouths when the police are hounding them - and even if they didn't talk, they would be let go.
But, now that person is being watched by the police.. all it takes is an association with you to be be built and then the LE start watching you.
-
Maybe I'm completely off base, but I doubt it. I'd certainly love some senior vendors to chime in as much as you would... trust that. Time will tell.
.Hades.
And my point is that you haven't really helped anyone by telling them no one will help them five times over. .... -snip-
Look man, I +1 you for effort and goodwill. Aidoneus is right though. Just think about what you are doing. Basically you want to post a manual for LE on how and where to trace the money in an open forum. Something like that would be flat out reckless.
Just imagine you were to say...uhm..."and then we get a prepaid debit card from soandso", blam, now you have a bunch of would be vendors running around using debit cards from the same issuer ever so happily informing LE where to take a closer look. Are you even aware how easy it would become to do correlation analysis and pick them out? Keep in mind that this forum is more than likely scraped by every relevant law enforcement agency there is for later analysis, archived prolly forever.
I commend you on wanting to put in the effort, but exposing hidden money trails by posting them in an open forum kinda would make 'em no longer hidden money trails, wouldn't it?
I thank you sir for the good karma. I like being commended(:, but I guess I just don't understand. There shouldn't be a risk on the Tor right? I thought that was the point. It's not traceable, so as long as no one posts an unencrypted physical address... but yeah, you're right I am totally unaware of correlation analysis or how it works. I thought "hidden" was hidden. How is it different from the highest selling vendors on the road? I'm not trying to argue or come off sarcastic. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.
I'd like to add that that visa actually looks pretty good. I think it's better the others I've seen. But either way I gotta hold off on on vending just yet. I was hoping to get this set up earlier so I could afford some professional help, but I had to use my seed money. I'll probably be back to this thread in due time. I still think it's a good idea to keep it going and open to more sharing.
I came here looking for the same thing you are, but john makes a valid point. It has nothing to do with tor or the anonymity of individuals. What it comes down to is lots of people are looking for a safe and efficient way to cash out. While the government is most likely aware of the existence of all (or at least the vast majority) of them, as it is right now they have a pretty wide field to watch.
Now, if someone were to detail right here on these forums one exact route to get clean money from silk road to your pocket lots of people would start doing it. Why wouldn't they? A proven method that works for other vendors would be great. The problem comes from the fact that now you have a big group all using the same method and LE has the exact same info on it as the group using it. This considerably narrows what LE would have to watch for in order to catch people using that method. Now that method is unsafe and not only are those of us who were looking for a method out of luck, so are the people who were already using it quietly.
-
... Are you even aware how easy it would become to do correlation analysis and pick them out? Keep in mind that this forum is more than likely scraped by every relevant law enforcement agency there is for later analysis, archived prolly forever.
Starting in September everything we post here WILL be archived forever - in a Utah desert, United States of America:
"...Inside, the facility will consist of four 25,000-square-foot halls filled with servers, complete with raised floor space for cables and storage. In addition, there will be more than 900,000 square feet for technical support and administration. The entire site will be self-sustaining, with fuel tanks large enough to power the backup generators for three days in an emergency, water storage with the capability of pumping 1.7 million gallons of liquid per day, as well as a sewage system and massive air-conditioning system to keep all those servers cool. Electricity will come from the center’s own substation built by Rocky Mountain Power to satisfy the 65-megawatt power demand. Such a mammoth amount of energy comes with a mammoth price tag—about $40 million a year, according to one estimate...."
Copied from:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/
-
To protect my own safety I can't get too detailed, but my current cash out method costs me 20-25%. I won't describe in specifics my cash out method, but I wanted to address some of the things I read in this thread...
Also, everyone who keeps mentioning these gold cash out options - consider this:
For starters you are taking a hit on the actual purchase. On Coinabul the price of gold vs. the actual value of the gold is significantly marked up. I calculated it and for $5,000-$10,000 I believe it was about 10-15% mark up, for $1,000-$5,000 the mark up was 20-25% and for less than $1,000 the mark up was around 30%.
Then, when you go to a local gold dealer with your new gold, do you think they are going to give you the 100% cash value for your gold? No! They need to make money too. I never bothered cashing out with gold because I figured it would eat up almost all of my profits.
Purchasing cash from a vendor on SR:
If you have a separate account for purchases (which every vendor should)...you can wash your BTC thru BTCfog (costs 3-5%) then purchase whatever listings are available. The markup is still there (15-30%) but it's a more direct approach. If you are extra paranoid, get a fake ID and open a PO Box under the fake name. Extra cost (PO Box's run $10-$30/month)...but if you are super paranoid it might be worth it.
And for everyone that says "don't get cash, they can trace the serial number!!!" please stop fear-mongering. Do you think cash registers have some sort of sensor that reads serial numbers and are directly connected to the U.S. Treasury? Do you think banks have that? You're wrong. Let me educate you about cash:
-99% of cash gets continuously recirculated.
-Businesses need cash to give change to their customers
-If businesses deposit cash to the bank, the bank needs the cash to give to their customers
-If the banks have too much cash, they send it to a central vault (bank-owned, not government owned)
-When other bank branches need cash they get it from the central vault, where it goes back out into the system
At no point in time during this whole process does the money get into the hands of the boogeyman or whoever you think it is that monitors cash. Yes, LE agencies will write down serial numbers of bills, but they normally do this right before they do a sting. So it goes like this:
-'This is officer dickhead, and here you can see I have $1,000, serial numbers X Y and Z. We are going to give these bills to an undercover officer who will purchase a quarter pound of weed from the suspect'
-'Buy goes down, officers swarm in'
-'Subject was found with $1,000 in cash, serial numbers X, Y, and Z, take him to jail'
Cash is one of the safest things you can have. It can be hidden, it can be laundered, it can be used for anything, and it can't be traced unless you use $10,000 or more for anything. I will acknowledge that; the Patriot Act requires any business to report cash transactions of $10,000 or more. DON'T buy a car for $15,000 cash. DON'T put $20,000 cash down on a house. And DON'T deposit $12,000 cash to your account.
However, you can deposit $5,000 on Wednesday and $6,000 on Friday ;)
And then you can write a check for an $11,000 car.
Both of those transactions are non-reportable.
However if you are under investigation, you will have a hard time describing those deposits.
Getting into money laundering, you can establish a business for relatively low cost and siphon money through it, pay taxes etc etc.
Or you can go to the Casino with $7,000 cash, buy a bunch of chips....play low-stakes poker for a couple hours, then go cash your chips out, and claim you won $7,000, pay taxes on it at the end of the year, now you have clean money.
In my honest opinion, the best way to be a vendor on SR is to use real-life money to fund your business and stack your bitcoins, don't cash em out. The BTC is constantly increasing, look at what it is trading at today vs. last year vs. 2 years ago. Cash out every six months - 1 year, hell hold onto them as long as you can. By then your BTC will be worth way more than it was when you did the transaction, so even if you pay 20% markup, it won't hit you as hard. If letting virtual money sit around makes you uncomfortable, cash out in gold and then bury it somewhere nobody else will find it. Come back in a few years and it will be worth way more.
In closing:
I have accepted that being a vendor on SR means that I will have to pay a percentage to get my cash out of the system. Anonymity isn't free and I'm okay with taking a hit on profits if it means I don't go to prison. Being a drug dealer IRL might be more profitable but it is a thousand times more risky. I'll keep paying my 20-25% to get my cash, it's a small price to pay for blatantly disregarding the law ;)
-
^^ Nice post.
-
Typically if you're within the United States it'd be wise to keep it outside of the United States, or any other countries that work with our government.
;)
-
It's time for a bedtime story:
I've spent several years cruising along different so called "fraud" boards etc.
There were guys offering prepaid credit cards which could be used for cashing out WebMoney (by exchange), PSC (Paysafecard), Ukash, LR etc.
Well, guess what happened? Some of those prepaid credit cards had been sold online and used to be loaded with stolen credit cards,
therefore the companies who have distributed / sold them, started to request more credentials (e.g. IDs, electricity bill and even more fucked up identification methods). In addition there were different "levels" of on those cards to prevent fraudulent transactions / cash outs etc.
Every "level" had a specific limit and of course every more to your needs suitable limit needed more credentials, activations, fees to pay etc.
Long story short: In general those cards have become useless, simply because it's such a pain in the ass to talk to different companies regarding activations, higher levels etc.
I've forgot to mention: You had always to pay fees at ATMs and sometimes, even for no reason, those cards have got suspended.
Any alternatives? Yes, "anonymous" bank accounts, someone opens a bank account with a faked ID, uses it himself / herself or sells it online.
NOT RECOMMENDABLE, I've read some stories where someone buys such a bank account, pays approx. 1000 €, gets his card etc. delivered and the seller calls the bank to suspend the account or duplicates the card etc.
To be honest, all what I've experienced and seen is that every public method will get exploited and attracts LE.
If you're someone who's making quite a fortune here and you want to cash out, be fair and use someone who has got expertise.
Because if you have ongoing income, 25% doesn't really matter and I totally agree with Cali4niaLove.
It would be really nice to establish a official Bitcoin cash out service here on Silk Road, I believe that many users would benefit from it.
Best wishes,
Deutsche Bank
-
You can sell your bitcoins to me using Western Union. See the link to my vendor page. Thanks and good luck.
-
Cashing out using another Anonymous person would not be wise for vendors. Especially with WU
-
Thanks, what is your reasoning? We've done it many times. Can you explain the risk? Why is WU especially risky?
-
They're pretty invasive about your privacy asking for your ID. It kind of de-anonymizes the vendor. And no-offense to you or anything, but why should somebody trust you with their identity or their associates identity. Not making an judgement towards you or anything,
-
Yes, Western Union requires photo ID from both the sender and receiver. To send money, all that is needed is the receiver's name (as it appears on the receiver's ID) city, and country. To receive the money, all that is needed is the sender's name (as it appeared on the sender's ID), country of origin and MTCN code from the sender. Buying and selling BTC is still legal everywhere as far as I know, and there is no reason to ever mention to the WU staff the purpose of the money transfer. Naturally, it is best to use fake ID's or an agent if you decide to use this method.
Cheers!
-
See the last phrase and stick to bitcoins. Western union is used by L.E. to arrest you
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 2,521
Loc: Canada Flag
Are Authorities Closing In On the Online Drug Market Silk Road?
#16604558 - 07/28/12 03:25 PM (6 months, 9 hours ago)
Just over a year ago, we broke the story of Silk Road, the underground online market that's like an eBay for illegal drugs. It's been thriving ever since. But as the summer drags on, Silk Road users are becoming increasingly paranoid over a series of unexplained disappearances. And the Drug Enforcement Agency has now revealed it's investigating the site. Is Silk Road really as invincible as it seems?
In early July, the DEA told the Austin TV news station KXAN that it was investigating Silk Road, where users openly buy and sell drugs, from heroin to ecstacy and pot. New York Senator Chuck Schumer had asked the DEA to look into the site after we first wrote about it about a year ago, but this is the first public acknowledgement that the DEA has heeded his call.
Silk Road users don't seem immediately concerned about news of the investigation. "ASSHOLE reporters writing lies," wrote user TrustusJones in a post about the article on Silk Road's bustling forums. He or she probably feels well-protected by the twin technologies Silk Road uses to keep users hidden: The anonymity software the Tor Network and Bitcoins, a nearly untraceable currency. (Proving its bona fides once again, Tor recently stymied an FBI kiddie porn investigation.)
But over the past few months, a number incidents have suggested that Silk Road users are vulnerable, unsettling some users and sparking rumors of a crackdown. Don your tin-foil hat, and follow me.
One of the most prominent incidents was the sudden disappearance of a much-beloved cocaine dealer named "MiN," in May. For months, MiN, who claimed to live in Canada, had sold and shipped some of the highest quality coke in the dark net—one user described it as "STRONG, euphoria and some speediness." After he vanished, customers flocked to the Silk Road forums to complain that their orders hadn't been filled. Rumors swirled that MiN had been busted and that he was actually the alter ego of a family of four from Ottawa who were arrested in mid-May and charged with exporting huge amounts of cocaine abroad. (The Ottawa Royal Canadian Mounted Police would not comment on whether Silk Road was involved in the Ottawa case.)
It was said that MiN tripped up by accepting Western Union money orders in addition to Bitcoins, which opened him up to being traced.
-
I'm not sure if you are talking about something more complicated than a money transfer that has different requirements. I am, also, not saying I reccommend W' Union.
I do believe money transfers can be sent without ID and There is an option on the clerks screen to make it so the reciever need not show ID if the amount is under 1,000USD. Then, the sender gives a secret question and answer used to prove identity. You will need to sign when sending but can use a fake name and address etc.. They use a Phone number to determine if you are ordering them at multiple locations (to exceed the $limits), so be sure to use a new # at each location if doing multiples. New name's probably good also.
-
Cash is one of the safest things you can have. It can be hidden, it can be laundered, it can be used for anything, and it can't be traced unless you use $10,000 or more for anything. I will acknowledge that; the Patriot Act requires any business to report cash transactions of $10,000 or more. DON'T buy a car for $15,000 cash. DON'T put $20,000 cash down on a house. And DON'T deposit $12,000 cash to your account.
However, you can deposit $5,000 on Wednesday and $6,000 on Friday ;)
No. no you cant. Its called structuring and the banks check for that. Maybe $5k this week and $6k next week. Either way you may have to explain where the money came from.
And then you can write a check for an $11,000 car.
Both of those transactions are non-reportable.
However if you are under investigation, you will have a hard time describing those deposits.
Any transaction over $10,000 is reportable, be it check, cash, bullion, dirt, dogshit, WoW gold.....
Getting into money laundering, you can establish a business for relatively low cost and siphon money through it, pay taxes etc etc.
You can, but good luck explaining how you made all that money when you had no sales to show of. Service based businesses are usually used for this purpose because theres no stock to show for it, but physical services are easy to monitor, and most businesses have this thing called employees that you'd have to hire to appear legit.
Or you can go to the Casino with $7,000 cash, buy a bunch of chips....play low-stakes poker for a couple hours, then go cash your chips out, and claim you won $7,000, pay taxes on it at the end of the year, now you have clean money.
The casinos arent stupid, they know what you came in with and what you cashed out with, you cant just claim that as winnings.
Im not sure how this turned into a laundering conversation, the topic was cashing out anonymously, laundering is the next step, making this cash appear legitimate. If you want to cash out anonymously the only way to currently do this without knowing someone who will break the rules for you (gold buyer/WU clerk/Bank Mgr who wont ask for ID) is to use a bitcoin to cash service or have a trusted friend do it for you (if you have drugs in your possession).
There is another way, that is to sell your BTC to people who would make a cash deposit into your bank account. However there are regulations around this and you would have to consult an attorney before actually doing this, as it would raise alot of flags and you'd might have to explain why a bunch of random people are depositing cash into your account.
Other than that you can always use the psuedo anonymous method of selling bullion to local buyers. If you can find a personal collector instead of a businesses chances are they're not going to ask for id. Also try https://localbitcoins.com/ and see if anyone wants to buy.
-
Nice thread here, I must admit it is a pain finding a way to cash out but if you plan on being here long-term its worth it as some said to pay 20%