Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: Kappacino on April 23, 2012, 06:57 pm
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Can someone please explain to me the law behind the concept of controlled delivery.
From what I understand, the idea is that you are asked to sign for the package, and once you sign for it, this proves that you ordered it?
How does that logically follow? I'd sign for any package that came to my door just to see what was inside it. I wouldn't just turn away something with my own name on it. In fact I have signed for unknown packages in the past that turned out to be free stuff/surprise gifts from friends/family etc. Signing for it doesn't prove I ordered it, surely? Does this really hold up in court? Could you not just claim that you didn't know who had sent it but you thought it might be a surprise present? That isn't even that unbelievable.
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Here is a copy/paste from a Roid buying site: (My own little addition is that controlled deliveries are to nab the sellers, not so much buyers. I'm sure that the buyer would be implicated, or used in the prosecution to a degree, but no, they're not spending countless surveillance hours and thousands of tax dollars to catch you in your threatening 1/2 gram of weed purchased off SR).
"Before we read about controlled deliveries and the associated implications, let us read what exactly a controlled delivery is to create a clear understanding.
Controlled delivery is the technique of allowing suspect or illicit consignments of narcotic drugs and/or psychotropic substances or their substituted substances to clear into the geographical territories of one or more countries with prior knowledge and under regulation of the competent authorities. This technique is used to identify people behind the commission of offences established under law of the land.
Purpose
The purpose of controlled deliveries is to identify and bring to justice principals, financiers, and organizers of illegal drug trafficking. These deliveries are also allowed to dismantle trafficking or smuggling groups as well as to identify and prosecute violators of the law.
By the above statements, it can be easily made out that that a controlled delivery is nothing but a tool employed by criminal prosecution departments. This tool is indispensable to detect international organized crime (smuggling/trafficking).
Let us now read about types of controlled deliveries to get more insights on this concept. The four types of controlled deliveries are The 'Cold Convoy', Under cover operations, Postal consignments, and Cooperating courier.
While undertaking procedures of controlled deliveries, criminal prosecution departments monitor suspicious packages that can contain narcotic drugs, psychotropic substances, or their substitutes. Once suspicion is aroused, the department officials usually investigate records of earlier packs to identify the point of origin and destination. Once the suspicion is confirmed, the officials arrange for a controlled delivery to the original recipient. If the pack containing prohibited drugs is accepted, officials start searching for more drugs by producing a search warrant.
Am I, as a buyer, at risk?
No. The criminal prosecution officials target unauthorized drug sellers
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Thanks for the info. But if that is the case, why have numerous people posted here that they/their friend got hit with a controlled delivery and were in turn arrested/charged with possession or intent to supply?
Even if I got a kilo of coke in the post.. assuming I had nothing else in my house, would I be prosecuted for that kilo of coke? Does signing for a package really equal proof?
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Thanks for the info. But if that is the case, why have numerous people posted here that they/their friend got hit with a controlled delivery and were in turn arrested/charged with possession or intent to supply?
Even if I got a kilo of coke in the post.. assuming I had nothing else in my house, would I be prosecuted for that kilo of coke? Does signing for a package really equal proof?
I had also wondered this. When you get busted during a controlled delivery are you being charged for the drugs that you received, or just what ever is already in your home?
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search controlled delivery on youtube theirs lots of tv shows that explain it.
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Can someone please explain to me the law behind the concept of controlled delivery.
From what I understand, the idea is that you are asked to sign for the package, and once you sign for it, this proves that you ordered it?
How does that logically follow? I'd sign for any package that came to my door just to see what was inside it. I wouldn't just turn away something with my own name on it. In fact I have signed for unknown packages in the past that turned out to be free stuff/surprise gifts from friends/family etc. Signing for it doesn't prove I ordered it, surely? Does this really hold up in court? Could you not just claim that you didn't know who had sent it but you thought it might be a surprise present? That isn't even that unbelievable.
You'll probably get a lot of differing opinions on this topic, but it seems to me that the primary purpose of a controlled delivery is to secure the chain of evidence, so that it can be used in court. With the evidence secure, and therefore admissible in court, the fishing expedition begins.
What will they find at your residence? What information will you divulge out of fear? What information will be found on your computer? If it gets this far, they will make a case against you if they're able... And it's all going to be based on proving that you knew about, ordered, or were otherwise expecting that package. If they find additional drugs at your residence, then you'll be charged for those separately.
It seems just as likely that the package could be placed in a mailbox, then the mailbox observed until you collect the contents... But what if you don't check the mailbox? What if your nosy neighbor roots through your mail? What if you are somehow able to hide the package before they swoop down on you? Or hand it off to a courier, who manages to slip away with it? Easier to just bring it to your door and try to get you to take it.
Will refusing the package make any difference legally? I have no idea, and have yet to see an answer that involved something more than speculation (even if such speculation was based on knowledge of the law). It probably won't, but they still have to prove you were expecting it- signing for it could be interpreted in court as some sort of admission. This is also why I avoid checking DCNs and tracking numbers... Something else to link me to that package I knew nothing about.
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most of the case law brought before the appellate courts that I have read (read tons!!) that involved controlled delivery usually also contained the element of possession. Simply signing is usually not enough to prove possession since a family member or pretty much anyone can sign who answers the door. Every case I read the investigating agency had placed a tracker in the shipment that would emit a short range wireless signal to let the guys in the black vans know to bumrush your house. Signing 'may' not be enough for possession but opening it is pretty much an open and shut case in the eyes of the law. If you open it... it is yours!
Never sign, but if someone does, write 'return to sender' on the package and go for a ride. Look for any cars or vans you don't recognize. Drive for about a mile and find a garbage receptacle and get rid of the packaging... you should be safe.
Good luck!!
TJ
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Just refuse to sign in all cases.
If they planned to arrest you, it'd make their case stronger that you signed for the pack.
I *think* technically you aren't supposed to sign for packs you don't recognize, but everyone does it anyway.
Anyway, if they approach your door asking you to sign, why the hell would you? It's an obvious sign they're on to you, and the dumbest thing to do would be to accept the package when the pigs are ready to come in.
Dunno about you but I like my front door securely locked and on it's hinges.
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i was just typing that exact same thing thunderweed
so is that the case: just never sign and you'll be fine?
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most of the case law brought before the appellate courts that I have read (read tons!!) that involved controlled delivery usually also contained the element of possession. Simply signing is usually not enough to prove possession since a family member or pretty much anyone can sign who answers the door. Every case I read the investigating agency had placed a tracker in the shipment that would emit a short range wireless signal to let the guys in the black vans know to bumrush your house. Signing 'may' not be enough for possession but opening it is pretty much an open and shut case in the eyes of the law. If you open it... it is yours!
Never sign, but if someone does, write 'return to sender' on the package and go for a ride. Look for any cars or vans you don't recognize. Drive for about a mile and find a garbage receptacle and get rid of the packaging... you should be safe.
Good luck!!
TJ
Excellent points...!
i was just typing that exact same thing thunderweed
so is that the case: just never sign and you'll be fine?
I think it could still be a very unpleasant and scary experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone, but seems like a good place to start...
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Just refuse to sign in all cases.
If they planned to arrest you, it'd make their case stronger that you signed for the pack.
I *think* technically you aren't supposed to sign for packs you don't recognize, but everyone does it anyway.
Anyway, if they approach your door asking you to sign, why the hell would you? It's an obvious sign they're on to you, and the dumbest thing to do would be to accept the package when the pigs are ready to come in.
Dunno about you but I like my front door securely locked and on it's hinges.
True, but I've had packages before that I've had to sign for, that didn't even have a tracking number. And sometimes vendors use a tracking number and don't let you know.
To be honest I think common sense dictates that ultimately, you couldn't be successfully charged just for signing for a package (too many mitigating circumstances).
And really, I don't think you could be convicted for opening said package either. I could send you a kilo of coke, it gets spotted, they do a controlled delivery, you get a package, open it, notice that its full of cocaine, then the police bust in. Doesn't seem like proof to me.
I think Trustus is right, most logical thing to do is, if you get asked to sign for a package, immediately write RETURN TO SENDER across it, then wait a few hours.
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i was just typing that exact same thing thunderweed
so is that the case: just never sign and you'll be fine?
Not that you'd be fine, but if you were asked to sign, always say no, no matter how big the package was.
Great minds think alike 8)
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using a tracking number or a dcn doesnt mean you have to sign for a package at least domestic usa i have heard int'l least from canada if they track it/ use express you do have to sign so most vendors dont even offer than anymore cuz most of didnt want that. you just gotta do research before you order make sure to ask vendor if you'll have to sign or if vendors dont wanna be bothered w all those pms just put it on ur profile page
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I know of two times a package was brought to the door of afoaf and it was declined and it was a done deal. There might have been multiple questions or more than zero but the unfortunate receivers of an unknown package kept calm and composed and lived to tell about it.
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If you want tracking sometimes you gotta sign. Sometimes I feel this makes mail appear more official and less suspicious. My idea is accept the package. Close the door, write "return to sender" on it, and walk out to the car holding the unopened package. Put it under the seat and drive away. take care of errands or something. Leave it under the seat for a few days unopened. If you get stopped you are on your way (eventually) to the post office to return it. If you don't get stopped sneak it out of the car at another location like a friends house. At some point you'll be sure it's ok, then open it and stop worrying.