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Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: ZMAN on April 01, 2012, 04:56 pm

Title: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: ZMAN on April 01, 2012, 04:56 pm
Obviously we should not accept a package from anyone or sign, but how can we tell if the LE planted a devicce

it has been done before

how do these devices work, is their something i can use to scan for any type of electricity at all?


http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/Controlled%20Deliveries.html
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: TrustusJones on April 01, 2012, 05:09 pm
the wireless device would work on a standard wireless frequency and based on it's size it would need to be fairly close to the monitoring unit. I would assume if you lived on a long road without many places to park that the vehicle where the receiver was located would be fairly noticeable. I would immediately mark the package 'return to sender' then take the dog for a walk around the block.

If you wanna go high tech I think a regular wireless detection device sold in most spy shops would work just fine. Just make sure you turn off all devices that give off a wireless signal such as your cell phone so you get the best results when trying to detect something coming from the package.

If you do a search for wireless detection there is a lot out there: http://www.spytechs.com/bug_sweep_equip/Bug-Detector-SK199.htm
A pen RF Detector for $50... carry it in your pocket, run it around the package before opening.

TJ
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: ZMAN on April 01, 2012, 05:55 pm
I am concerned that i would not be scanning for the right frequency with wireless signals. Since their is no electronics in my mailbox and the package would need a battery, is something available to detect eectricity?
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: Prawl42 on April 01, 2012, 06:21 pm
wouldnt a standard RF scanner work? no expert here but id imagine it would be putting out some rf signals
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: TrustusJones on April 01, 2012, 06:26 pm
yes... all wireless devices work within a set frequency.
Wireless detectors scan that frequency and let you know if anything is giving off a signal in that frequency.

If there is a device in the box giving off a signal it should be easily identifiable by even the cheapest of wireless detectors.

TJ
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: peach on April 01, 2012, 06:33 pm
Very simple, just buy a jamming device.
L1 GPS signals can be blocked very easily with commercially available jammers, LE doesn't have access to L2 GPS because that's reserved only for the military.

Some jammers have the combo of blocking both cellphones frequencies and GPS frequencies.
Actually if they are using real time GPS tracking, by just blocking cellphones will do its job because GPS trackers use the cellphone network to send data for real time tracking online.

If they are using RFID, they must be really fucking close.

BUT, there is another problem with jammers, it is freaking noisy.
The way that jammers work is like this: imagine someone talking to you. You can clearly recognize your friend's voice, and you can pinpoint his location by sound.
Now the jamming devices works like a noise making machine, that covers your friend's voice and you can't hear a damn thing. If your friend has this noise making machine, you might not hear his voice, but still you can now where the noise is coming from.

Most devices are not prepared to detect jamming machines, but if it becomes a pattern that they keep losing their signals every time they want to track you, they might start to think a way to solve that little problem and start scanning for jamming frequencies, in the same way that the FCC triangulates pirate radio stations.

Therefore THE BEST method to avoid tracking is by blocking it passively is by using a mini Faraday cage that blocks all the frequencies. You can make the lining of a bag with aluminum, and when you put whatever you want in the bag, and you close it you'll be passively blocking all the spectrum of radio frequencies.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: patron420 on April 01, 2012, 06:40 pm
Therefore THE BEST method to avoid tracking is by blocking it passively is by using a mini Faraday cage that blocks all the frequencies. You can make the lining of a bag with aluminum, and when you put whatever you want in the bag, and you close it you'll be passively blocking all the spectrum of radio frequencies.

+1 I remember years ago hearing of people stealing stuff from stores with a man purse type device lined with aluminum foil. The bags would stop all frequencies & the shoplifting tags wouldn't go off when people walked out the door with the items. This would work to "jam" them without a actual jammer.

Also though any regular wireless detector device will let you know what's in that package. They even make like keychain ones that have like 3 leds to indicate strength. like red for low, yellow for mid, green for strong.

I would say have a detector & if it did go off, put that package in a aluminum foiled bag & drive & drop it off in a drop box, with return to sender on it.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: ZMAN on April 01, 2012, 09:50 pm
Would blocking the signal make them think id opened the package and come snatch me? wouldnt my metal mailbox blok he signal? Its not really an issue of tracking, they are using these devices so they can tell when intercepted packages have been opened.

If I detect a frequency near my box, i aint gonna go near it!! let alone pick it out and do anything wth it! Id probably leave town!
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: peach on April 02, 2012, 05:32 pm
@nomodeset
BY the time you brought to your home to fry it in your oven, they would already have tracked you to your home.
Btw, you would be burning your wares along with the transmitter. Think people, please.
Don't be... like that.

Never forget the KISS principle: KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID!
Also known as the Occam's Razor heuristics.
Just use aluminum to block all the radio frequencies.
It won't matter what type of tracking device they have, it will simply block them all.

If they lose their tracking signal, it can mean a lot of things, it doesn't mean that you opened the package.
They won't be losing the signal when you open the package.
What really will be happening, very probably, if they cared to plant a tracking device it means that they will very probably have physical surveillance nearby observing who picks up the package, and tail you from a reasonable distance.
The remote tracking will most definitely be used as an insurance if they ever lose sight of you.

It would be very foolish to feel safe just because you are jamming any probable signal.
That's not how LE works, they are not like Anonymous who love to do everything from behind a screen.
If they suspect you, they will be there doing oldschool legwork tailing you... and that's if they suspect that you might not be the real recipient.
Otherwise they might just come out from the bushes right away when you remove the package from the mailbox.

The safest method would be a combination of techniques:
1) Get a RF detector. Get the one that vibrates to use it concealed.
If you feel that your thingy starts goes crazier than a spinster's dildo as you are getting near the mailbox, just keep walking pass it calmly, and none will be the wiser.

2) After coming and going a few times, and you don't find anyone or anything suspicious around the block (people sitting ducks, people in cars, people watching the streets, some vans, suddenly homeless people, new neighbors), then approach the mailbox always paying attention to the RF detector.

3) If you don't feel any vibrations at all, just as an insurance, put it in a booster bag (the aluminum lined bag) which will block all RF.

4) If you are not arrested by now, still check if you are not being tailed. Look for cars, colors, models and take a mental note. Turn and keep turning, do a stop at a grocery shop, go to a barber shop, do your everyday errands, this way you can sure that nobody is following you.
If they know what they are doing they might be following you like two or three cars behind you.

Alternative to Nº4, much simpler and neat:
Use a mule, give him an aluminum lined priority envelope (or box), and whenever he receives your package, instruct him to repack it in the specially prepared faraday caged envelope as soon as he picks it up, and redeposit it in a mailbox for the re-delivery to your real drop site.
You can have prepared a bunch of dummy envelopes with similar weight and shape delivered to bogus but existing addresses.
Put all these dummy envelopes and yours in several mailing boxes: and you just to made the LEO's day a nightmare: they will not be able to get a warrant, and if they planted a tracking device, it will be absolutely useless.
Btw, always use gloves when doing this, from start to end.

Obviously this is costly and time consuming, but it would be infallible.

By the way, this thread inspired me to offer another product:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/c2257c5f48
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: CharasBros on April 02, 2012, 06:26 pm
you cant detect nothing, because most probably they using RFID tag which not transmitting anything, but once box opened tag will transmit. it is small enough TAG to be placed even in flat envelope, but that grim future still have to come.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: peach on April 02, 2012, 07:28 pm
@nomodeset
Yes, they can't arrest you unless you accept your package.
I was thinking in another scenario where you actually use a drop site, not your real address to receive it.
It would be absolutely stupid to receive anything incriminating it to your home.

I thought that it was already a given here.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: peach on April 03, 2012, 05:16 am
I reiterate myself: absolutely stupid to get it shipped it at home.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: Laughing Man on April 03, 2012, 05:32 am
There was already a large discussion on OVDB about this for large international shipments. We were thinking about a light sensor connected to a bluetooth transmitter. Upon exposure to light it would wipe the chip's memory to avoid reversing by LEO and would stop transmitting the signal. This way when you went to pick up the package from your mail box, you could use your phone to check if it has been tampered with or not and if it had, abandon the package.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: peach on April 03, 2012, 05:45 pm
@nomodeset
You seem to have problems with reading comprehension.
I was talking specifically when they use electronics for tracking, not to detect opening.

By the way It is stupid to receive packages at home, regardless of the electronics used.
Always use a drop site, and if paranoid just repack it and send it to a second drop site.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: Joy on August 09, 2012, 07:25 pm
There was already a large discussion on OVDB about this for large international shipments. We were thinking about a light sensor connected to a bluetooth transmitter. Upon exposure to light it would wipe the chip's memory to avoid reversing by LEO and would stop transmitting the signal. This way when you went to pick up the package from your mail box, you could use your phone to check if it has been tampered with or not and if it had, abandon the package.

If this technology is for real,i want 1 of those. ;D
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: Ether on August 10, 2012, 04:22 am
http://pz65gyca5nrafhrf.onion/PolyFront_2/polyfront.html
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: CharasBros on August 10, 2012, 02:54 pm
it is easy can be implemented on sellers side, plenty of different devices on market for $1-2  each. but question is if buyers will be willing
to buy receivers and will to learn all required components of the system. it can be priceless especially for those countries in which LE used to deliver busted consignments.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: Joy on August 10, 2012, 06:52 pm
it is easy can be implemented on sellers side, plenty of different devices on market for $1-2  each.

Could u please direct me to this "plenty of different devices on market for $1-2  each" ?
I try to google them, find a various types & then confused to use wich one :o
I read wiki & was thinking to use RFID frequency bands 3.1–10 GHz (microwave)-Ultra wide band-Range up to 200 meters - requires semi-active / active tags = cost 5$.   Rigth now im looking for this stuff @ google ;D
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: foundacoolusername on August 10, 2012, 09:14 pm
Peach:  Why do you feel its stupid to receive packages at home?  Many people get packages everyday, legit or not so legit?  What does receiving a package indicate in terms of guilt?  Doesn't prove an order?  I'd even say opening it proves nothing, unless you are found to be opening the internal components of an engine or something of that nature.

Simply opening a letter you didn't expect that was in your name doesn't seem like much "evidence" of anything to me.

However, going to a drop location, picking up something in someone else's name, opening that...now perhaps there's a case on you.

Not trying to be an asshole, just a serious discussion of why you think its dumb to have something delivered to your own name, and/or sign for it?
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: CharasBros on August 11, 2012, 07:10 am
it is easy can be implemented on sellers side, plenty of different devices on market for $1-2  each.

Could u please direct me to this "plenty of different devices on market for $1-2  each" ?
I try to google them, find a various types & then confused to use wich one :o
I read wiki & was thinking to use RFID frequency bands 3.1–10 GHz (microwave)-Ultra wide band-Range up to 200 meters - requires semi-active / active tags = cost 5$.   Rigth now im looking for this stuff @ google ;D

range depend on your antenna too, you will know if your passive tag fried even before postman reach your door. good idea in general, fix system in place, and hope to a seller who want to follow. I would be interested for sure, but unfortunately my knowledge in this field is limited  too.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: Joy on August 11, 2012, 11:54 am
joy, rfid backscattering can be easily detected, if the design itself was open source or mass produced then customs could scan only for the specific fingerprint this device would make, leading to a 100% interception rate on packs with these

there's currently a group of people being financed by a major lsd importer that's working on this, they're using gsm instead of rfid

I see,so it have to be specific fingerprint / different specific fingerprint on each tags.
May i know where do u got this info "there's currently a group of people being financed by a major lsd importer that's working on this, they're using gsm instead of rfid" ?
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: pine on August 11, 2012, 02:09 pm
joy, rfid backscattering can be easily detected, if the design itself was open source or mass produced then customs could scan only for the specific fingerprint this device would make, leading to a 100% interception rate on packs with these

I reluctantly came to the same conclusion.

@Joy, it's something you just have to roll your own on. A standardized solution would weaken our strategic advantage swarming gives us. "Diversity is Strength" (!) (shades of a sort of inverse Big Brother there, Big Sister to the rescue!)

If we all put light sensitive equipment in packages, eventually customs will be opening packages inside special darkrooms. There is no point in allowing an adversary to evolve a defense unless your plan was to throw the more naive vendors to the dogs as cannon fodder down the road. Although postal inspectors are not stupid, they fundamentally operate with reactionary stratagems like package profiling, as does the state in general e.g. trying to block Tor or strong crypto.

To be honest I'm not sure how smart it is to be using GSM inside packages going through the postal system. I can very easily imagine a postal inspector thinking "Well, shit, this could be a IED, had better call bomb disposal crew" and soon there's an inquisitive little robot trundling towards your package in a blast pit (I feel sad when they get blown up in movies like Hurt Locker, they seem so friendly! :-) )

IMHO passive RFID or active RFID tags that have a little power source daemon to tell themselves when to turn on are the best bet. Like how a CMOS battery ensures the computer knows the time the next time you wake it up, but only checked periodically somehow. I must admit I haven't done a vast amount of research in this area but it's little projects like these that could give you a decisive edge over the competition a while down the road if you were shipping larger than normal quantities.

In theory active RFID can reach a range of 100 meters (emphasis on *theory*), which makes them ideal for detecting a dead drop that's gone amiss. You could hypothetically simply drive past on a completely different street to check the drop hasn't been compromised. Such technology seriously breaks LE balls.

Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: 34trimethoxy on August 11, 2012, 11:00 pm
joy, rfid backscattering can be easily detected, if the design itself was open source or mass produced then customs could scan only for the specific fingerprint this device would make, leading to a 100% interception rate on packs with these

I reluctantly came to the same conclusion.

@Joy, it's something you just have to roll your own on. A standardized solution would weaken our strategic advantage swarming gives us. "Diversity is Strength" (!) (shades of a sort of inverse Big Brother there, Big Sister to the rescue!)

If we all put light sensitive equipment in packages, eventually customs will be opening packages inside special darkrooms. There is no point in allowing an adversary to evolve a defense unless your plan was to throw the more naive vendors to the dogs as cannon fodder down the road. Although postal inspectors are not stupid, they fundamentally operate with reactionary stratagems like package profiling, as does the state in general e.g. trying to block Tor or strong crypto.

To be honest I'm not sure how smart it is to be using GSM inside packages going through the postal system. I can very easily imagine a postal inspector thinking "Well, shit, this could be a IED, had better call bomb disposal crew" and soon there's an inquisitive little robot trundling towards your package in a blast pit (I feel sad when they get blown up in movies like Hurt Locker, they seem so friendly! :-) )

IMHO passive RFID or active RFID tags that have a little power source daemon to tell themselves when to turn on are the best bet. Like how a CMOS battery ensures the computer knows the time the next time you wake it up, but only checked periodically somehow. I must admit I haven't done a vast amount of research in this area but it's little projects like these that could give you a decisive edge over the competition a while down the road if you were shipping larger than normal quantities.

In theory active RFID can reach a range of 100 meters (emphasis on *theory*), which makes them ideal for detecting a dead drop that's gone amiss. You could hypothetically simply drive past on a completely different street to check the drop hasn't been compromised. Such technology seriously breaks LE balls.

Lol that big brother big sister part made me laugh
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: mrguymann on August 11, 2012, 11:31 pm
gps shit can get pretty small nowadays- the radio frequency stuff is obsolete for the most part.
But all that super-spy tech shit isnt very cost effective just to bust a small dealer or user.
THe way you'd most likely get busted is someone ratting you out, or if one of your packages "accidently" got opened somehow.
But you shoulda known the job was dangerous when you took it, bock , bock, bock bock. If your not prepared to possibly do some time for your passtimes, you aint down for your crime -and better reconsider whats at risk.
But ease your worries, if they really want to bust you they'll make shit up and lie under oath in court to bust you, they do it almost every day.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: sunny1 on August 12, 2012, 12:42 am
The devices talked about only tell them if and when its been opened. It does not transmit until opened as has been said. There is no point in using rfid because it has to receive a signal before it can retransmit and they would have to be constantly transmitting to your box in hope of getting something back. And a rfid will transmit soon as it gets a signal and i don't see how it could be rigged to show a box was opened but i suppose its possible. Most likely it will be a transmitter that operates only after the box is opened.

Talking about keeping it simple, just put the package by the door, mark return to sender and wait. The cops if there are any do not have infinite patience and will come to the door after a while. You calmly say "i didn't order this" and hand it over. If you did not sign for it they do not have a valid warrant and this *should* work. Keep it simplei!
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: CharasBros on August 12, 2012, 03:00 am
thing is cops nowadays getting smarter and they are delivering parcels containing actual drugs. then watch.
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: FarmerBob on August 12, 2012, 03:10 am
In almost all circumstances I respectfully disagree with Peach.  If you properly assess the risk and you are certain you're using stealth packaging then home deliveries are probably the best.  It never looks suspicious when an online retailer sends you something to your real name at home or to a valid PO box.  It looks very suspicious when something is sent to a foreclosed home, an apartment under a fake name, neighbors house, business, etc...

You may then think: "well at least you won't get a CD if you send it to the foreclosed home", and if you live in the united states you'd be 100% wrong.  I'd expect a controlled delivery to be MORE likely at a drop location. 

CharasBros is absolutely correct!

People seem to be very misinformed about the legal requirements for a controlled delivery.  There are occasionally state laws restricting certain actions during delivery of contraband but it's largely up to the LE agency, what the DA approves, and what the judge will sign on that warrant.  Once they know there's drugs in a package and it's likely going to somebodys drop location the judge will sign off on just about anything.  It is very very common for local LE to monitor drop points, wait for someone to pick up the package, then immediately bust that person and by the time the cops reach that guys house the judge has already signed the search warrant.

There is no law in the US that says anyone has to knock on your door

There is no law in the US that says you have to sign anything.

If you ship to a business any employee at that business can legally open the package.

There is no limitation on what LE agency can bust you.  It can be Postal Inspectors, DEA, FBI, or they can always hand it off to State/Local PD.

If you ship it to your house and your house is clean when it comes, you may grab it out of your mailbox, open it up, and 5 mins later the swat team might bust in.  If you lawyer up and say "I never ordered this, I don't know what's going on" you'll likely get away Scott free, in fact if your house is spotless the DA will know he doesn't have a case and they'll drop all charges.

If you ship to a drop, or somewhere under a fake name and pick it up you can't claim ignorance anymore.  They WILL bust you for possession of whatever is in that box and your lawyer will have a real tough time painting the picture that you're just an innocent victim.  No jury will buy it, the DA knows that, and the best you could hope for is a decent plea deal.

If you're moving big loads internationally obviously you don't use your house.  Those of you in this business know what I'm talking about, but you still don't use fake names or other suspicious bullshit. 

-----------

Regarding tracking devices, if you are a dealing with a major shipment then most likely they'll throw every resource at you.  The local PD will want a piece cause they'll want a piece of the $$$.  In the united states LE gets to use the money they seize to fund their departments.  I wouldn't doubt they even fund themselves on occasion.  It would make up for the lack of stock options, so why not.  Anyways that gives them one hell of an incentive to lay in the bushes for days with a spotting scope and a radio and just wait for you to pick up your package.  And i'd be worried much less about the supposed tracking device, much more about the take-down team / helicopter / local PD waiting at the dunkin donuts listening to their radios, waiting for the call.
 
99% of buyers would be best shipping to their houses, and if they're smart about what their doing, and the senders are smart about how they send there is really no risk of convictions or even charges for that matter.  Certainly they don't have to be concerned with advanced tracking devices and techniques.

1% of buyers are big importers or moving larger amounts, they need to do thing differently to avoid some serious prison time.

100% of people need to educate themselves on how to minimize their risk and take the nessisary precautions to keep themselves from seeing the inside of a Jail, 100% of people should also have a lawyer.  A simple family lawyer is a smart thing to have, that way when the shit hits the fan you have someone to call and either he or someone he refers can immediately represent you.


Best Regards,
Bob




Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: Joy on August 12, 2012, 07:41 pm
Thanks all for the info.  :)
Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: pine on August 13, 2012, 03:03 am
3) If you don't feel any vibrations at all, just as an insurance, put it in a booster bag (the aluminum lined bag) which will block all RF.

4) If you are not arrested by now, still check if you are not being tailed. Look for cars, colors, models and take a mental note. Turn and keep turning, do a stop at a grocery shop, go to a barber shop, do your everyday errands, this way you can sure that nobody is following you.
If they know what they are doing they might be following you like two or three cars behind you.

Alternative to Nº4, much simpler and neat:
Use a mule, give him an aluminum lined priority envelope (or box), and whenever he receives your package, instruct him to repack it in the specially prepared faraday caged envelope as soon as he picks it up, and redeposit it in a mailbox for the re-delivery to your real drop site.
You can have prepared a bunch of dummy envelopes with similar weight and shape delivered to bogus but existing addresses.
Put all these dummy envelopes and yours in several mailing boxes: and you just to made the LEO's day a nightmare: they will not be able to get a warrant, and if they planted a tracking device, it will be absolutely useless.
Btw, always use gloves when doing this, from start to end.

Interesting post, a few observations/critique:

Building a booster bag is a non-trivial assignment. I know I advocate Faraday Cage devices from before on pickup assignments and it sounds stupidly simple, but as any ORC team will tell you there's two practical problems that catch you out.

1. You need complete enclosure or it doesn't work.
2. If you're serious about blocking the signal, you require >30 layers. You need to block from single digit hz to Ghz!

To do it properly you need to alternate layers of plastic/alum in those layers. The best way to achieve this is to obtain plastic wrap, this is the kind kids use for covering their school books or copy books. i.e. big sticky roll of thick plastic wrap. Obtain the longest rolls in width/height you can possibly get. Now, obtain an alum foil roll, the kind used in industrial kitchens. It is thick and long, so it should fit the plastic roll. Finally, use a rolling pin to attach the foil to the plastic. Make up an entire roll of this. It's very fast considering how long it would take if you didn't do this.

Now you have more than enough raw material to build a seriously good booster bag.

The other problem is enclosure. It would be a pity to throw away the magnificent bag you have created so use some leftover 'booster roll' to make a top flap and then use a tape, thermal tape I think it's called, to seal the flap in place. Recycle! You could try Velcro too I suppose. Always test with mobile phones and other communication equipment to make sure you did it right.

--

An alternative to the alternative is to arrange a swop. Since you're meeting this mule anyway, why don't you obtain an identical outfit (and similar looking fellow), bag, the works, I would recommend wearing a cap/sunglasses. Then you meet up in some public toilet e.g. at a bar/restaurant/shop and arrange a swop. He dresses up as yourself, grabs a very similar appearing bag and wanders out, goes home and watches bugs bunny. You bide your time and change your clothes to something different. Pop the booster bag into another shopping bag and make your escape 15 or 20 minutes later. This way you don't have to deal with the paranoia of "is somebody following me" and your pal gets paid to watch bugs bunny at home while LE looks on somewhat mystified at this amazingly relaxed 'drug dealer'. The best thing would be to call a taxi to the front of the shop and walk out using passers-by as cover when you duck into the cab. This decreases the odds of a street interception team finding your destination to near zero as far as I'm concerned.

Benefits:

- no concerns about fingerprints.
- don't need to trust mule with product or 'lost in translation' occurrences.
- no postal costs
- you are not posting a booster bag through the postal system.





Title: Re: Electronic signalling devices - can they be detected to avoid a controlled deliv
Post by: peach on August 14, 2012, 04:20 am
In almost all circumstances I respectfully disagree with Peach.  If you properly assess the risk and you are certain you're using stealth packaging then home deliveries are probably the best.  It never looks suspicious when an online retailer sends you something to your real name at home or to a valid PO box.  It looks very suspicious when something is sent to a foreclosed home, an apartment under a fake name, neighbors house, business, etc...

You may then think: "well at least you won't get a CD if you send it to the foreclosed home", and if you live in the united states you'd be 100% wrong.  I'd expect a controlled delivery to be MORE likely at a drop location. 

CharasBros is absolutely correct!

People seem to be very misinformed about the legal requirements for a controlled delivery.  There are occasionally state laws restricting certain actions during delivery of contraband but it's largely up to the LE agency, what the DA approves, and what the judge will sign on that warrant.  Once they know there's drugs in a package and it's likely going to somebodys drop location the judge will sign off on just about anything.  It is very very common for local LE to monitor drop points, wait for someone to pick up the package, then immediately bust that person and by the time the cops reach that guys house the judge has already signed the search warrant.

There is no law in the US that says anyone has to knock on your door

There is no law in the US that says you have to sign anything.

If you ship to a business any employee at that business can legally open the package.

There is no limitation on what LE agency can bust you.  It can be Postal Inspectors, DEA, FBI, or they can always hand it off to State/Local PD.

If you ship it to your house and your house is clean when it comes, you may grab it out of your mailbox, open it up, and 5 mins later the swat team might bust in.  If you lawyer up and say "I never ordered this, I don't know what's going on" you'll likely get away Scott free, in fact if your house is spotless the DA will know he doesn't have a case and they'll drop all charges.

If you ship to a drop, or somewhere under a fake name and pick it up you can't claim ignorance anymore.  They WILL bust you for possession of whatever is in that box and your lawyer will have a real tough time painting the picture that you're just an innocent victim.  No jury will buy it, the DA knows that, and the best you could hope for is a decent plea deal.

If you're moving big loads internationally obviously you don't use your house.  Those of you in this business know what I'm talking about, but you still don't use fake names or other suspicious bullshit. 

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Regarding tracking devices, if you are a dealing with a major shipment then most likely they'll throw every resource at you.  The local PD will want a piece cause they'll want a piece of the $$$.  In the united states LE gets to use the money they seize to fund their departments.  I wouldn't doubt they even fund themselves on occasion.  It would make up for the lack of stock options, so why not.  Anyways that gives them one hell of an incentive to lay in the bushes for days with a spotting scope and a radio and just wait for you to pick up your package.  And i'd be worried much less about the supposed tracking device, much more about the take-down team / helicopter / local PD waiting at the dunkin donuts listening to their radios, waiting for the call.
 
99% of buyers would be best shipping to their houses, and if they're smart about what their doing, and the senders are smart about how they send there is really no risk of convictions or even charges for that matter.  Certainly they don't have to be concerned with advanced tracking devices and techniques.

1% of buyers are big importers or moving larger amounts, they need to do thing differently to avoid some serious prison time.

100% of people need to educate themselves on how to minimize their risk and take the nessisary precautions to keep themselves from seeing the inside of a Jail, 100% of people should also have a lawyer.  A simple family lawyer is a smart thing to have, that way when the shit hits the fan you have someone to call and either he or someone he refers can immediately represent you.


Best Regards,
Bob

Interestingly, theory aside, I know more cases of people getting busted for getting it shipped to their homes, than people picking it up at drops.
I rely on empiricism.

Btw, I never said that you had to use a fake name or a foreclosed house, that would be plain dumb.
A drop don't need to be neither.