Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: stephancastle on February 25, 2012, 05:08 am
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Because I gave this seller (vortexmilkman(98)) a low rating (which was explained in the subject line) I have received these series of threatening messages:
1) "So you're not going to change it or reply? OK, we'll see what other goodies you receive in your mail"
2) "Was nice knowing you."
3) "You're in a small little town in the middle of nowhere, Im sure the Post office and or local Police will have fun knowing your address at xxx Robinson St is a center of Drug activity.
Keep fucking playing with me."
This is unacceptable; what's the point of a rating system if I can't be honest, and then this coward threatens me with the police?
I will not deal with a jack-ass like this again, and his text responses show that my rating was spot-on!
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Like yakyak said, if you're new and dealing with a trusted seller, you be best off if you started doing what they ask of you.
Vortex handled that very poorly though, and if he's threatening someone's well being over a review, he must obviously be in an unstable state of mind. Do that to the wrong person though, and you could end up getting a little more than your bargained for. By that I mean he'd have bigger problems than the pigs.
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He needs to have the chance to defend himself. This is a very serious accusation.
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Irrespective of what the buyer did / done / said this vendor threats are just so unacceptable!
This behavior can not be tolerated in any form and DPR needs to investigate and suspend the vendor until an outcome is determined. This really does undermine what SR stands for.
I have never dealt with VMM and I can confidently say (IF proven), given his messages I NEVER will!
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These are indeed very serious accusations. I think that a suspension or whatever action is only appropriate after the facts have been established, rather than before.
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I call bullshit - i want to see screenshot!
PROVE IT!!!!! 2 posts - really? is this KingJoey again?
R u off vacation?
and i modified cause ima stoned and misspelled bullshit
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Ah, Christy, you're right, I may have spoken too soon.
OP, provide a detailed explanation of what you claim please. As Christy said, screenshots if you can.
Hmmm. Stoned sounds like a good idea.
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Irrespective of what the buyer did / done / said this vendor threats are just so unacceptable!
This behavior can not be tolerated in any form and DPR needs to investigate and suspend the vendor until an outcome is determined.
I agree that the threat is grounds for indefinite expulsion. But we don't know if the accusation is true, yet. DPR defeinitely has the duty to investigate this case. I think that suspending someone's vendor account is a drastic maneuver this early in the dispute.
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I'm a little worried that a vendor, regardless of the reasons, has kept a buyers address...
I'm clearly not a vendor, but I was reasonably sure the address goes from the screen to the package and is then promptly forgotten?
Are any other vendors keeping addresses? Its really only a worry if the vendor is in the same country as you... i guess...
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I'm a little worried that a vendor, regardless of the reasons, has kept a buyers address...
I'm clearly not a vendor, but I was reasonably sure the address goes from the screen to the package and is then promptly forgotten?
Are any other vendors keeping addresses? Its really only a worry if the vendor is in the same country as you... i guess...
Many noble vendors won't save your information, sure. But having a list of clients and their locations can be handy- if you get swooped up by the popo and it's certain you'll be convicted, you could use the list as a little bit of leverage when talking deals. And of course, there's always that one asshole buyer who changes his feedback or holds it hostage for more product.
Don't get me wrong- the practice of saving that sort of information is repulsive, and if we get a confirmation of this (which I doubt) there will be some action taken, but it's naive to think all vendors are totally moral people who only have their clients' security in mind.
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I only ordered once by vortex and all i can say is that he seems to be legit and offered a high quality service and product....
So i really don't understand stephancastles rating? Because all other costumers seems to be satisfied with vortex service & Product.
I really like to see screenshots as a proof....
Maybe he is one of this buyers who are trying to get a refund or resend although they got a high quality product........?!?
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Guys, I just don't think vortexmilkman really means to do any of the things he said. I believe he takes his number 12 ranking serious and reading down through his feedback. I see he's done his share of making sure people are takin care of. I think its all talk from from the heat of a bad afternoon. I just don't want to make too much out of too ma.y words.
Threatening to release someone's info to the police is a serious issue. While that alone may not be ban-worthy, storing addresses most certainly would be. Though OP still has yet to release a screenshot or even fully explain the situation, so it could just be a ruse to get free product or something.
Until we get proof either way, I'm sure DPR will deal with it if either of them goes to him.
I assume the feedback in question is:
Finalized early - 25 days later Nothing. He insisted it would've arrived days ago. Moral of the story - don't go out of escrow. Edit: Arrived a month later, without free item promised. Stayin at 2/5 because seller is quick to respond to messages, but only worried about his feedback, not the customers concerns. Also product was packaged in white scrap PAPER for a nice sticky mess and some waste! Great! Clearly this is a secondary/shrug off product I would steer clear. EDIT #3 - Reduced back to 1 for sellers attitude. Quote from seller in response to this review: " PAPER??
Uhh dude, its called fucking PARCHMENT paper from the dispensary......
You're so full of shit with your reviews.....
Whatever.....fuck you now you get no free product"
This sellers response left me confused, as I was not about the piece of scrap paper he shipped my wax in. There was text on it. Wax paper does not have text and is not white. Also he claimed to send me a free lollipop with my late shipment, which clearly never happened in the first place, as promised. All in all, if your looking for an integral seller who respects customers and will fix problems, avoid this one!
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Either OP or vortexmilkman fucked up BIG. Threatening to release personal info to the police is some serious bullshit. And making a false accusation of bullshit this serious is also some serious bullshit. I'm keeping an eye on this thread.
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wow, that's really fucked up shit. Sowwy to say but this needs investigating and appropriate action. It is not unreasonable to think that some sellers may get the idea that a nice address list is good leverage in case of getting popped. And after all, getting a lot of good feedbacks is primarily a means of protecting business interests, not protecting buyers out of the goodness of the heart.
However, OP, I hope you can back this with screenshots...
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apparently the OP doesn't know what parchment paper is, and yes you can write on it, and no, it's not the same as wax paper.
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Not sure what the score is here, would love to see vortex respond but since he is established vendor I would give him the benefit of the doubt, but if there is anything to these accusations I couldn't think of a bigger transgression by a vendor than storing info and worse threatening getting the pigs involved. This would be the type of thing that would make me think hard if this was worth the risk and I'm sure scare off a lot of potential new members. Not to sound naive because I'm sure all vendors do not have same level of professionalism and are careless with info but there is enough info in forums and on SR to locate the most legit and hopefully trustworthy vendors. I really hope this is looked into and whatever party is full of shit is dealt with proper like.
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Im looking on his feedback and I dont see a low rating recently, other than 5 days ago... "Marked this to "in transit" then ordered me to finalise before he sent it out, giving me zero buyer protection, even though I'm on SR for 8 months, have had over $200 of transactions and a perfect record. This "policy" was is nowhere to be seen on his seller info."
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This is why we need a private SR to go with the public one. Complete bullshit.
Not saying that vortex or the buyer have the blame on this, i take no sides. Dispute is to early
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This is why we need a private SR to go with the public one. Complete bullshit.
All nice and fine in theory, but if you have any experience in the world of private BT trackers you'll know that the sleaziest people are the first to figure out how to get in and actually succeed in doing so. I also can't see this idea being viable in terms of "free market" dynamics. Without those all you have is a club of 50 friends sending each other drugs now and then. If you go the other route, as in, promotion to the VIP lounge, all you'll create is a run for it by the sleazeballs. Just sayin'...
sowwy for the thread-hijacking...
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I think this thread should be deleted. It was accidentally brought to forums by very new person. Again....it needs deletion.
why the hell would they delete the thread where a vendor is called out as blackmailing customer with LE? If anything it should be stickied
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I think this thread should be deleted. It was accidentally brought to forums by very new person. Again....it needs deletion.
why the hell would they delete the thread where a vendor is called out as blackmailing customer with LE? If anything it should be stickied
+1 for the good of vendors and buyers alike.
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Look, I think this whole thing is a non-issue until actual screenshots of the convo are posted for the community on the .onion uploader
(it's here, OP: http://xfq5l5p4g3eyrct7.onion)
Until then I consider this entire thread to be a bunch of bullshit. There has to be evidence in the accusation of a crime. There is none here....
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Look, I think this whole thing is a non-issue until actual screenshots of the convo are posted for the community on the .onion uploader
(it's here, OP: http://xfq5l5p4g3eyrct7.onion)
Until then I consider this entire thread to be a bunch of bullshit. There has to be evidence in the accusation of a crime. There is none here....
+1
The burden of proof ALWAYS lies with the prosecution not the defendant...
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Well the prosecution (the accuser in this case) posted transcripts of the conversation... if the accused 'did' say he would contact L.E. and S.R. has proof of this then the seller should be kicked... this is a harsh environment and anyone who sells illegal substances who threatens to involve the pigs should be eradicated... just my opinion.
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Well the prosecution (the accuser in this case) posted transcripts of the conversation... if the accused 'did' say he would contact L.E. and S.R. has proof of this then the seller should be kicked... this is a harsh environment and anyone who sells illegal substances who threatens to involve the pigs should be eradicated... just my opinion.
Sounds reasonable to me.
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where are the transcripts? I didn't see a link to screenshots in this thread, only text typed in a box (just like I'm doing now).
me: I am not happy with this product
DPR: I am secretly a seller and you are getting no refund.
Does this mean that the site's owner is now factually a seller and an asshole to boot??
It's all bullshit unless original content is produced. If this were an arbitration session sworn witnesses would need to attest, or a signed document/recording would have to be produced in order to verify this is actually real. All we have right now is "well johnny said that sally did", which is hearsay. Inadmissible!
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shenanigans. prove it.
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where are the transcripts? I didn't see a link to screenshots in this thread, only text typed in a box (just like I'm doing now).
me: I am not happy with this product
DPR: I am secretly a seller and you are getting no refund.
Does this mean that the site's owner is now factually a seller and an asshole to boot??
It's all bullshit unless original content is produced. If this were an arbitration session sworn witnesses would need to attest, or a signed document/recording would have to be produced in order to verify this is actually real. All we have right now is "well johnny said that sally did", which is hearsay. Inadmissible!
+1
While I'm not excusing the behaviour on either side, solid evidence needs to be produced. Anyone with basic literacy can put text into a box, if OP was adamant he'd present the originals promptly to back his sketchy story up. Until then it's hearsay and VMM doesn't need to defend himself against that. IF Sshots or links appear, and it's proven VMM is a c**t... I'm putting my hand up to be given the job of tongue and kneecap removal!
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I'm thinking if the seller had done anything remotely like that we would have seen some screenies or other form of trying to convince us by the buyer. I doubt something that serious would be getting forgotten because of tea at grandma's around five...
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I'm a little worried that a vendor, regardless of the reasons, has kept a buyers address...
I'm clearly not a vendor, but I was reasonably sure the address goes from the screen to the package and is then promptly forgotten?
Are any other vendors keeping addresses? Its really only a worry if the vendor is in the same country as you... i guess...
Many noble vendors won't save your information, sure. But having a list of clients and their locations can be handy- if you get swooped up by the popo and it's certain you'll be convicted, you could use the list as a little bit of leverage when talking deals. And of course, there's always that one asshole buyer who changes his feedback or holds it hostage for more product.
Don't get me wrong- the practice of saving that sort of information is repulsive, and if we get a confirmation of this (which I doubt) there will be some action taken, but it's naive to think all vendors are totally moral people who only have their clients' security in mind.
Yeah if a vendor kept a list of buyers he would be a dumb fuck to hand this over to LE.
"here is a list of people I sold to" lmao
"thanks I will be sure to let the judge know how cooperative... and busy you have been" LoL
I think it is naive to think that some vendors 'dont' keep a list. Just like it is naive to think that some troll buyer wont trash your feedback with dishonest and unrealistic feedback.
Nor is it is naive to think that a vendor will not get pissed off with dishonest feedback and send you a 'care package'.
Feedback works even if it is negative. A good vendor will take it on board and a good vendor will not take it up their arse if there is false feedback. It doesnt happen IRL and it sure is shit wont happen on SR.
IMO if you are out to rubbish a vendor with bullshit lies you deserve everything you get.
1 VMM - 0 OP
Oh and btw OP, I ordered from VMM and never received my product. I gave a 5/5 and stated I never received my product. Thats were it ends for me. Im a realist and expect a certain percentage of product to get intercepted. If VMM didnt send the product I am not to know. I write it off and move onto the next vendor (if it is my first order).
Go have a tantrum some place else.
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I'm a little worried that a vendor, regardless of the reasons, has kept a buyers address...
I'm clearly not a vendor, but I was reasonably sure the address goes from the screen to the package and is then promptly forgotten?
Are any other vendors keeping addresses? Its really only a worry if the vendor is in the same country as you... i guess...
Many noble vendors won't save your information, sure. But having a list of clients and their locations can be handy- if you get swooped up by the popo and it's certain you'll be convicted, you could use the list as a little bit of leverage when talking deals. And of course, there's always that one asshole buyer who changes his feedback or holds it hostage for more product.
Don't get me wrong- the practice of saving that sort of information is repulsive, and if we get a confirmation of this (which I doubt) there will be some action taken, but it's naive to think all vendors are totally moral people who only have their clients' security in mind.
Yeah if a vendor kept a list of buyers he would be a dumb fuck to hand this over to LE.
"here is a list of people I sold to" lmao
"thanks I will be sure to let the judge know how cooperative... and busy you have been" LoL
I think it is naive to think that vendors 'dont' keep a list. Just like it is naive to think that some troll buyer wont trash your feedback with dishonest and unrealistic feedback.
Nor is it is naive to think that a vendor will not get pissed off with dishonest feedback and send you a 'care package'.
Feedback works even if it is negative. A good vendor will take it on board and a good vendor will not take it up their arse if there is false feedback. It doesnt happen IRL and it sure is shit wont happen on SR.
IMO if you are out to rubbish a vendor with bullshit lies you deserve everything you get.
1 VMM - 0 OP
Oh and btw OP, I ordered from VMM and never received my product. I gave a 5/5 and stated I never received my product. Thats were it ends for me. Im a realist and expect a certain percentage of product to get intercepted. If VMM didnt send the product I am not to know. I write it off and move onto the next vendor (if it is my first order).
Go have a tantrum some place else.
I couldn't agree more. I wish people would try working it out with their fucking vendor before whining about it in the public forum.
Just like IRL, if you're not happy, then bring it to your dealer's attention and see if he'll make it right. Most will. But not after you've run all over town shooting your mouth off.
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All we have right now is "well johnny said that sally did", which is hearsay. Inadmissible!
In law, this is called a complaint. Hearsay is completely different. Hearsay is when you quote someone else that isn't present. What we have is a person who says vortex threatened him with LEO recourse. This is very serious. It shouldn't be taken lightly.
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@SRE - with no verifiable proof. Call it what you like, but without actual tangible evidence to actually prove that there is ANYTHING other than a bitchy buyer trying to trash an established seller's rep in the forum (which is definitely the case, without proof), it's an empty accusation at best.
This is only a serious accusation with a screenshot. Without it, this is somebody whining out of the wrong end of their body.....
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^
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what he says....
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's all good VMM. Obviously just another tweaked out feedback troll on a roll....
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Alright guys here is the deal. Upon investigation, VortexMilkman did indeed threaten the user in question with action by the police. Because one of the main tenants of this site is not threaten buyers, his account had to be suspended. This is an unfortunate case because outside of this incident VMM has been a stand up Vendor here on the Road, but as peoples safety is our number one concern action had to be taken.
~DigitalAlch
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Thank you, Alch
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Thank you for clarification DA!!!
UNCOOL VMM... maybe politely inform him his knees are in jeopardy, but don't grass him to the fuzz... That's a dead C**T act and no question.
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???????????
DigitalAlch please see my msg
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or at least use GPG when making threats
(just kidding, don't threaten people with LE at all, douchebag)
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Thanks for that kmf, you know the entire situation.
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Well I can only assume that the evidence must have been them looking at your conversation as stored in the database, and that therefor the conversation couldn't have been encrypted or else they wouldn't be able to read it.
Any other form of evidence they could have is pretty much worthless, photoshop can make it look like you said anything and obviously anyone can put a block of text and say you said it.
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prevent this tragedy in your family with G P G
If the message is GPG encrypted I still would have a solution to prove who is telling the truth (or I should say who is telling a lie....), via cryptanalysis of the ciphertext. Not going to reveal it though as maybe some day it will come in handy for SR to resolve a dispute over what was said when encryption is being used. And no I can not crack any of the algorithms used in the GPG suite :P.
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let's play a game instead: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=13261.0
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Holy shit threatening with the popos? Even in fun or annoyance?
That accusation was so strong I wouldn't dinnt wanna believe it.
Never ever ever use the popo word in an argument.
.../me sighs
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Holy shit threatening with the popos? Even in fun or annoyance?
That accusation was so strong I wouldn't dinnt wanna believe it.
Never ever ever use the popo word in an argument.
.../me sighs
Did you sigh because you used the word popo in your argument for never using the word popo in an argument? (okay i'm done derailing this thread....)
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Did you sigh because you used the word popo in your argument for never using the word popo in an argument? (okay i'm done derailing this thread....)
I sighed because popo is an endearing term for Ass in German. So just when I finished that post I had to think of a nicely apple-shaped bootylicious "popo" and so I sighed :P