Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: John Humphreys on February 03, 2012, 03:59 pm
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I was wondering if anybody knows of any research that has been done about Silk Road?
Context: I'm currently doing my economics PhD, and part of my thesis will be looking at emergent market institutions... which basically means I'll be looking at why people respect private property and contracts, even when there is nobody to enforce the rules. Obviously, this is very relevant for SR since there is no government here, and yet the market exists and seems to be growing.
So my plan is to hang around the SR world looking for useable data on how effective this non-government market system is working. At some point I hope to conduct a survey of buyers and sellers asking about your experiences. If I'm lucky, I might also get funding to run some experiments on SR, where I'll pay you to play some (fully legal) games.
If anybody knows of any other similar research that has been done about Silk Road, I would love to hear about it. You can message me here, or e-mail me directly on john.humphreys99@gmail.com. Suffice to say, all individual correspondence will be kept in strict confidence (which is a requirement of my research)... and you're still anonymous so you're safe anyway.
btw, this is my real name... I am not anonymous on SR. I have done this so that you can be more confident that I'm dealing honestly. Obviously then I don't plan on buying or selling any drugs (or anything else). You can find out about me at my website: www.johnhumphreys.com.au
(Sorry for double-posting this. I'm still learning my way around here, and I wasn't sure which forum was the most appropriate. Mea culpa.)
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sure, that's what we absolutely need, academic papers covering SR
I hope you know what you're getting (us) into...
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sure, that's what we absolutely need, academic papers covering SR
I hope you know what you're getting (us) into...
Hey, it won't do any more harm than what the Gawker and Forbes articles have already done... at least this would be an impartial analysis of the market. I agree that we don't need any more publicity, but as far as exposure goes, this is actually of the best kind.
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Thanks John.
You will find some will not like what you are doing, and then there are those of us who appreciate it.
Make SR a household name.
Tell the world so more mums and dads start taking notice that the money spent trying to eradicate drugs is not working, because the enforcers are standing around holding their dicks and scratching their heads while places like SR flourish..
Are you sure we cannot interest you in some little vice? ...for research of course ;)
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you picked a VERY interesting time to cruise around the Silk Road - this weekend is like a candyland for us ;)
and I would actually be very interested in this research thesis paper of yours. and in regards to research in specific, I have not heard of any directly related to SR, but I have read numerous studies of how black markets and underground businesses actually help keep many countries' economic markets alive and well, especially after the crash in '08 - all done through cash deals with no help from courts, lawyers, or governments (United States included, and I think Greece or Italy had the highest % with annual grossed money through black markets). nonetheless, you can most likely do a search for those specific stats around the world. very interesting. especially because it fucking works
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Thanks all... I appreciate the feedback. Once I have anything definitive to report, I'll be sure to share it with the SR community. Note that my interest is not related to what you are buying/selling, but rather with the degree of honesty that occurs in an anonymous market.
sure, that's what we absolutely need, academic papers covering SR
I hope you know what you're getting (us) into...
I'm fairly sure that the authorities already know that SR exists. I don't think a few academic economists are going to be the thing that brings down the system. :)
If there is anybody out there who knows some of the history of SR and would be willing to talk me through some of the scams that have occurred, that would be a big help too. I've seen some discussion of scammers already, but would be interested to know how much of a reputation the scammers had built up before they cheated the system. For example, I wonder if any of the scammers were regulars on this forum, with >100 comments and "full member" status?
Probably best to send me a PM if you are interested & able to help. Somebody has suggested I get PGP, and once I work out what that means, then I'll do that too. Cheers.
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PGP is an encryption protocol (stands for Pretty Good Privacy). There's a sticky in the Security forum about it.
I'd love to help you, but I'm fairly new here myself. Don't let my (or anyone else's) post count fool you. A vendor's transaction history is taken much more seriously into account than their post history when gauging their trustworthiness. Dilligent users will look at both, and also try to get in contact with previous customers of that person in the Rumor Mill subforum.
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You may be interested to know that some come here looking medicines, not drugs. Im not talking about some feller with the sniffles scoring antibiotics. I mean people in say the world of depression who've not found relief playing by the rules......make sure you take a real good look around this place....it's not just criminal...not really.
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For PGP, this link has a good tutorial:
http://p3lr4cdm3pv4plyj.onion/guides/shepj.html
You should definitely look up the SumYunGai controversy. He was a top rated Bitcoin exchanger who disappeared after someone sent him a large amount to convert. Nearly all the reviews were positive before that and he was a nice guy to deal with. It's hard to guard against that but you can mitigate risk by spreading out large transactions when possible. People like that seem to be in the minority though and most people here seem to be good, honest people (at least here on SR anyway).
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If there is anybody out there who knows some of the history of SR and would be willing to talk me through some of the scams that have occurred, that would be a big help too. I've seen some discussion of scammers already, but would be interested to know how much of a reputation the scammers had built up before they cheated the system. For example, I wonder if any of the scammers were regulars on this forum, with >100 comments and "full member" status?
check out the "Rumors" section. members are always updating others on possible scams or selective scammers. the forums are quite helpful when it comes to that. if someone is interested in purchasing from a specific vendor - or vice-virsa - a common practice is to do a search for their handle to see what comes up. people are quite good at warning others about scammers and whatnot. unfortunately though, selective scammers are a little more difficult to spot at first. someone, always, is trying to put out a scam. we just have to do a little homework before we commit to a vender/buyer; and always keep our guard up. you can never be *too* paranoid here ;) :P
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If you want to get a better feel of how Silk Road operates I'd recommend reading through the buyers guide and purchasing something legal that's sold on here (dog food, blotter art etc), when everything works as it should it operates just like ebay.
LEGAL lol i havent even viewed one listing that wasnt illegal in ever which way lol
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You should also look into the GummyStars scam.
He was a very friendly vendor with absolutely no rep whatsoever. Good communication yet deceitful about orders. Offered free samples to people, buy some and get some extra free to finalize early. He requested it to help keep stocks moving and good communication is not trademark of scammers so he convinced some people to risk it. I was one of the first but then things started not showing up yet people continued to give their money away for days. Even after it was out something was up he continued on all sorts of excuses trying to either get more money or worse try to harvest more addresses for purposes I try not to consider.
In another case, I received an order successfully with an awesome deal, and vouched for Ender on the forum. I was even discussing arranging another order and then he went silent. Some people had finalized early and lost money then claimed scammer. I really dont know what to think but hope something worse didnt happen to him. I feel this made me look bad in a way, giving a good review for someone who caused people to lose money, and your reputation is a very important thing around here.
Unfortunately, these really taught me a harsh lesson about wanting to trust people and help them out while having to worry about them being deceitful in an anonymous world.
Good luck with your work, it seems like a very interesting concept.
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you picked a VERY interesting time to cruise around the Silk Road - this weekend is like a candyland for us ;)
and I would actually be very interested in this research thesis paper of yours. and in regards to research in specific, I have not heard of any directly related to SR, but I have read numerous studies of how black markets and underground businesses actually help keep many countries' economic markets alive and well, especially after the crash in '08 - all done through cash deals with no help from courts, lawyers, or governments (United States included, and I think Greece or Italy had the highest % with annual grossed money through black markets). nonetheless, you can most likely do a search for those specific stats around the world. very interesting. especially because it fucking works
I believe the black/grey markets are analogous to a 'backup' system for Capitalism in many respects. When the white market crashes and burns due to malign influence or unintended consequences when governments throw spanners into the works, then it is up to the purest market of them all to provide that necessary dynamism to keep the Market alive. Even the DPRK has the black market.
It's just survival of the fittest and I think there is nothing more ferociously beautiful. If the black market were itself a drug like alcohol it would be like having your brain hit with a slice of lemon wrapped around a gold brick.
Protip John Humphreys, I've already done an informal survey on the success of the Silk Road.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=11731.30;topicseen
We currently have an almost 97% DSR (delivery success rate) across the board. Yeah, people respect private property and contracts, they know what's good for them. I guess you'll be studying our system using some model like Prisoner's Dilemma, so I suggest looking at Robert Axelrod's work on the subject and the Tit for Tit algorithm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat
Prisoner's Dilemma in general is a fascinating subject and I'd encourage any professional vendor to look into the research.
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I was wondering if anybody knows of any research that has been done about Silk Road?
Context: I'm currently doing my economics PhD, and part of my thesis will be looking at emergent market institutions... which basically means I'll be looking at why people respect private property and contracts, even when there is nobody to enforce the rules. Obviously, this is very relevant for SR since there is no government here, and yet the market exists and seems to be growing.
So my plan is to hang around the SR world looking for useable data on how effective this non-government market system is working. At some point I hope to conduct a survey of buyers and sellers asking about your experiences. If I'm lucky, I might also get funding to run some experiments on SR, where I'll pay you to play some (fully legal) games.
If anybody knows of any other similar research that has been done about Silk Road, I would love to hear about it. You can message me here, or e-mail me directly on john.humphreys99@gmail.com. Suffice to say, all individual correspondence will be kept in strict confidence (which is a requirement of my research)... and you're still anonymous so you're safe anyway.
btw, this is my real name... I am not anonymous on SR. I have done this so that you can be more confident that I'm dealing honestly. Obviously then I don't plan on buying or selling any drugs (or anything else). You can find out about me at my website: www.johnhumphreys.com.au
(Sorry for double-posting this. I'm still learning my way around here, and I wasn't sure which forum was the most appropriate. Mea culpa.)
SR is governed by DPR, hee dictates what is sold here and he can ban anyone he wants. he makes a hell of a lot of tax from this place. Reminds me of the outside world a bit......
SR makes tax on every transaction in the ways of fee's
10% of the first $50
8.5% of $50 - 150
6% of $150 - 300
3% of $300 - 500
2% of $500 - 1000
1.5% for everything over $1000
Sr makes 4% from the final vendors price, this is "too compensate for the hedging system"
SR even makes more money by using MTgox weighted avg instead of last price
SR makes more money by not sending vendors their coin
SR generally makes as much tax as possible from this place, thats all that matters at the end of the day.
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SR is governed by DPR, hee dictates what is sold here and he can ban anyone he wants. he makes a hell of a lot of tax from this place. Reminds me of the outside world a bit......
I know you had a frustrating experience lately, but patience in combination with regular withdrawals to ensure your SR wallet doesn't get too top heavy is still probably the best policy to secure your capital.
There's a whole lot of hoops DPR has to jump through if he wants to be truly secure, and that in combination with the sheer volume of the project means it won't be a streamlined experience. I mean, I'm sure you've all had frustrations with Ebay, Paypal and Amazon too, but they're still e-commerce titans. Consistency and reliability are rare as hen's teeth attributes of any business model, and that applies doubly to the black market.
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every transaction, deposit & withdrawal i have ever done on amazon, paypal & ebay have all gone so smoothly it is unbelievable. Never once have i lost an item, never once had a buyer dispute an item cause it did not arrive and never once have i had a papal deport/withdrawal go missing. Never once have i seen them go offline for over 12hrs, they are much bigger and more professional operations due to being in the legal domain, so really they are of no comparison to SR.
I personally am done lining SR's pockets with tax gathered from this social experiment
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every transaction, deposit & withdrawal i have ever done on amazon, paypal & ebay have all gone so smoothly it is unbelievable. Never once have i lost an item, never once had a buyer dispute an item cause it did not arrive and never once have i had a papal deport/withdrawal go missing. Never once have i seen them go offline for over 12hrs, they are much bigger and more professional operations due to being in the legal domain, so really they are of no comparison to SR.
Really? I've had dreadful experiences with Paypal. Froze thousands of dollars, crashing my business to the ground while I was on holiday, effectively killed my reputation. Type paypal hell into google and you'll see it's not even a particularly uncommon experience for vendors.
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I do understand that many people have reported problems with pyapal, i have yet to experience them though, that is all i was meaning.
I'd gone from around august lat year until x-mas time without having a problem with SR, since then it just seems to be one thing after another.
With most of my items averaging at $100, SR is making 8.5% tax on the majority of my sales & then another 4% off the amount i receive. So have done 180 transactions at roughly 100, so thats $18,000 + 12.5% in tax = $2250 tax earned from my sales in roughly the last 5 months. Considering i have had sales with tax of around $40 before those numbers really are estimates.
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I do understand that many people have reported problems with pyapal, i have yet to experience them though, that is all i was meaning.
I'd gone from around august lat year until x-mas time without having a problem with SR, since then it just seems to be one thing after another.
With most of my items averaging at $100, SR is making 8.5% tax on the majority of my sales & then another 4% off the amount i receive. So have done 180 transactions at roughly 100, so thats $18,000 + 12.5% in tax = $2250 tax earned from my sales in roughly the last 5 months. Considering i have had sales with tax of around $40 before those numbers really are estimates.
boo fucking hoo SR doesn't make you use SR so it really isn't a tax at all, although maybe you are just using common terminology but you make it seem like you are somehow OWED this service for free, do you have any idea how much goes into running a server and forum let alone a massive e-commerce site let alone doing it when its all illegal as fuck and you have tons of federal agencies trying to fuck up everything you do and send you to jail? Get the fuck over yourself and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out is my advice to you, go make a better site
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what a charming young fellow...................................
I do think when i am paying 4%+ commission on every sale i make that i should at least get my withdrawls with out having to wait 72hrs(dicking my suppliers around) and PM sr admins several times.
edit: Oh yeah, i know no one makes me use SR, hence why i am no longer selling on the market! my 5-6 months with this social experiment are done.
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i'm not the one crying about having to pay for a service. You have plenty of valid points but when you start saying 'OMG I NEED TO PAY FOR THIS' it makes you just sound like a whiner. Plus it irritates me to see you use the word tax in the way you are, SR isn't forcing you to use SR.
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what a charming young fellow...................................
I do think when i am paying 4%+ commission on every sale i make that i should at least get my withdrawls with out having to wait 72hrs(dicking my suppliers around) and PM sr admins several times.
edit: Oh yeah, i know no one makes me use SR, hence why i am no longer selling on the market! my 5-6 months with this social experiment are done.
tell the government that your X years with their social experiment are done, and you will quickly see the difference between a tax and paying for a service
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it people like you that make me glad i am leaving SR ;D :P ;D
i couldn't give a shit if you don't like me "whining", i don't like having to wait 72hrs to get the BTC for products i sold days ago!! It is already bad enough having to wait for funds to be released form escrow, then having to wait 3 days to appear in my wallet is just a fucking joke!!!
I'm not "whining" about having to pay for a service, i am "whining" about paying for a service and then not receiving it, big difference.
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Greengiant has had his seller account suspended, his forum account banned and he can no longer access his SR market place account. goodbye SR & sorry to all my loyal customers!!!
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I was wondering if anybody knows of any research that has been done about Silk Road?
Context: I'm currently doing my economics PhD, and part of my thesis will be looking at emergent market institutions... which basically means I'll be looking at why people respect private property and contracts, even when there is nobody to enforce the rules. Obviously, this is very relevant for SR since there is no government here, and yet the market exists and seems to be growing.
So my plan is to hang around the SR world looking for useable data on how effective this non-government market system is working. At some point I hope to conduct a survey of buyers and sellers asking about your experiences. If I'm lucky, I might also get funding to run some experiments on SR, where I'll pay you to play some (fully legal) games.
If anybody knows of any other similar research that has been done about Silk Road, I would love to hear about it. You can message me here, or e-mail me directly on john.humphreys99@gmail.com. Suffice to say, all individual correspondence will be kept in strict confidence (which is a requirement of my research)... and you're still anonymous so you're safe anyway.
btw, this is my real name... I am not anonymous on SR. I have done this so that you can be more confident that I'm dealing honestly. Obviously then I don't plan on buying or selling any drugs (or anything else). You can find out about me at my website: www.johnhumphreys.com.au
(Sorry for double-posting this. I'm still learning my way around here, and I wasn't sure which forum was the most appropriate. Mea culpa.)
I've reported you to my local law enforcement agency for conspiracy to distribute illicit substances, and conspiracy to distribute illicit substances to minors. This will not be tolerated. Have fun in Yale. I mean Jail.
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I believe the black/grey markets are analogous to a 'backup' system for Capitalism in many respects. When the white market crashes and burns due to malign influence or unintended consequences when governments throw spanners into the works, then it is up to the purest market of them all to provide that necessary dynamism to keep the Market alive. Even the DPRK has the black market.
It's just survival of the fittest and I think there is nothing more ferociously beautiful. If the black market were itself a drug like alcohol it would be like having your brain hit with a slice of lemon wrapped around a gold brick.
....I think I love you :o :D
I've reported you to my local law enforcement agency for conspiracy to distribute illicit substances, and conspiracy to distribute illicit substances to minors. This will not be tolerated. Have fun in Yale. I mean Jail.
and......what? that's just stupid. and really sure way to get a VERY bad rep.
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SR is making 8.5% tax on the majority of my sales & then another 4% off the amount i receive.
Sales tax in the states is on average around 8-9% and throughout Europe it's at least double that. Sweden it's over 20% VAT right? Kinda makes Silk Road's sales tax seem tame.
Then, after you've received your pay the IRS takes another 30% on April 15th and use it to invade sovereign nations for oil. Whatever our Pirate owner does with his booty can't be worse for humanity than what the West does with it.
By the time I pay the SR fee, the hedging fee and the fees associated with getting BTC back into cash I'm still earning more than if I was a legit business, and I don't need to pay an accountant to do my SR "taxes" either.
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I've reported you to my local law enforcement agency for conspiracy to distribute illicit substances, and conspiracy to distribute illicit substances to minors. This will not be tolerated. Have fun in Yale. I mean Jail.
and......what? that's just stupid. and really sure way to get a VERY bad rep.
103 posts in 8 days Mmmm somehow I dont think a good rep is their priority.
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I was wondering if anybody knows of any research that has been done about Silk Road?...
I've reported you to my local law enforcement agency for conspiracy to distribute illicit substances, and conspiracy to distribute illicit substances to minors. This will not be tolerated. Have fun in Yale. I mean Jail.
The first thing that came to my mind when i read this was: "whatta douche" lmao.
Keep LE out of here motherfucker.
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Am I the only one who assumed Angelology was taking the piss? ???
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I emailed the guy (from the REAL website) and turns out, the dudes legit.
It's really him, not some asshole impersonator.
At least I can vouch for that.
Anyone willing to straight up throw away their anonymity here deserves at least a little respect.
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Am I the only one who assumed Angelology was taking the piss? ???
Yeah no kidding, silly...
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I was wondering if anybody knows of any research that has been done about Silk Road?
Context: I'm currently doing my economics PhD, and part of my thesis will be looking at emergent market institutions... which basically means I'll be looking at why people respect private property and contracts, even when there is nobody to enforce the rules. Obviously, this is very relevant for SR since there is no government here, and yet the market exists and seems to be growing.
So my plan is to hang around the SR world looking for useable data on how effective this non-government market system is working. At some point I hope to conduct a survey of buyers and sellers asking about your experiences. If I'm lucky, I might also get funding to run some experiments on SR, where I'll pay you to play some (fully legal) games.
If anybody knows of any other similar research that has been done about Silk Road, I would love to hear about it. You can message me here, or e-mail me directly on john.humphreys99@gmail.com. Suffice to say, all individual correspondence will be kept in strict confidence (which is a requirement of my research)... and you're still anonymous so you're safe anyway.
btw, this is my real name... I am not anonymous on SR. I have done this so that you can be more confident that I'm dealing honestly. Obviously then I don't plan on buying or selling any drugs (or anything else). You can find out about me at my website: www.johnhumphreys.com.au
(Sorry for double-posting this. I'm still learning my way around here, and I wasn't sure which forum was the most appropriate. Mea culpa.)
No Problems, Other than the obvious, we have nothing to hide
How will IRB (ethics board) feel about the anonymous nature of this board?
ggg
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- who is the audience?
- whats in it for us?
- for what purpose?
- too many claiming to be neutral turn out to just want to report on a onsided argument..
- not interested in surveys
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sure, that's what we absolutely need, academic papers covering SR
I hope you know what you're getting (us) into...
hey, SR did finally show up on one of my journalwatch lists (I'm catching up on the backlog); I figured it would sooner or later. This was in the letters section. Hasn't been cited by anything yet but it should flag for me when it does:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2011.03709.x/full
MONICA J. BARRATT
Article first published online: 8 FEB 2012
DOI: 10.1111/j.1360-0443.2011.03709.x
Addiction © 2012 Society for the Study of Addiction
Addiction
Volume 107, Issue 3, page 683, March 2012
Keywords:
Drug markets;illicit drugs;internet
Internet and digital technologies have been discussed recently by Addiction contributors in relation to the delivery of efficient computer-delivered brief interventions [1,2], online methodologies for recruiting and surveying illicit drug users [3] and the internet's role in facilitating the spread of information and sale of emerging drugs such as mephedrone [4] and synthetic cannabinoids [5].
Here, I introduce readers to a novel use of the internet in the drugs field. The anonymous online drug market-place Silk Road was first revealed in June 2011 [6]. Silk Road is accessible only to people who are using Tor anonymizing software [7]. Tor uses encryption to make it impossible for anyone to trace IP addresses (the electronic code assigned to each computer on the internet). The front page of Silk Road looks a great deal like the front page of eBay. Goods and services for sale are categorized and all manner of drugs are available under the following categories: ecstasy, cannabis, dissociatives, psychedelics, opioids, stimulants, benzodiazepines and other. Sellers receive ratings from buyers and comments about the quality of their products, how fast they ship and the level of professionalism and discretion of the transaction. Trust in sellers is built on reputation. Silk Road traders use the anonymous currency Bitcoin [8]. This decentralized international currency operates through peer-to-peer technologies.
At the time of writing (October 2011), Silk Road is still online and continuing to expand. Facilitated by a combination of the internet and encryption technologies, buying and selling illegal products is now possible and may increase dramatically in the future. What may stop an exponential increase in the use of anonymous online drug market-places is the hurdle of delivery. At the end of the transaction, the physical product still needs to be sent to the buyer. Sending products between countries allows law enforcement the opportunity to intercept packages and potentially attempt to arrest the would-be importer. Sending products within the same country may make arrest less likely. There are also numerous barriers to entry for people who might want to use Silk Road. Installing and using Tor, buying and using Bitcoins in a secure way and taking the risk of fraud or arrest upon delivery may deter the majority of would-be users. Nevertheless, for the minority who master these concerns and are willing to take the risk, Silk Road has revolutionized how the internet can be used to source drugs. After all, buying drugs in the real world also involves considerable risk. For some, the online equivalent may prove more convenient and secure than arranging a standard deal.
There are many unanswered questions about Silk Road. The extent to which law enforcement can stop and disband a site such as this is yet to be seen. The extent to which drug users will use this new technology is also unknown. Needless to say, if anonymous online drug markets do end up expanding into mainstream drug markets, they will pose a real challenge to existing drug laws and policies. We should definitely watch this space.
IRBs have evolved around online communities and research, so I'm going to be waiting with bright eyes to see how "watching this space" goes.
Y'all who search on here and find this, post on what your IRB says about monitoring and/or participating... 'cause although I consider the average SR user to be about as 'vulnerable' as a laser-shark, the IRB here would say, "No, you can't lurk and spy on a drug abusing population, they're vulnerable, and you might break their fragile little minds." (They routinely shoot down people who want to lurk on drug-related fora on the clearweb. Maybe our IRBs around here are just snottier or something.) The risk/anonymous nature brought up by ggg is a good point too.
For once I think I won't argue that people can be functional and still use drugs, I'll just support the review boards in their model of things.
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it's on the political agenda in my country as well. Plus it was all over the news last weekend round here.