Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: brodie on August 03, 2013, 09:20 pm
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I simply don't get it. Is requiring FE against the rules or not? Do people not understand when they FE they are basically paying for someone's word?
I mean I'm not trying to call out one person right now, but it's just a shame that the some of the 'best' vendors can do this and no one notices a pattern. You will get scammed!
I don't care how good your shit is thurgoodjenkins I know damn well the SECOND I place my order you're taking my money and running up to the strawberry frosted hills of jebrolta
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Seller%27s_Guide
NOTICE: If you are a new vendor, you may not ask your customers to finalize their orders and release payment to you before you ship, a practice known as "finalizing early". If you do this, you will lose your selling privileges. Once you have completed 35 successful transactions and have been a seller for at least one month, you may ask your customers to finalize early without repercussion. In no way do we support finalizing early in general and this rule should not be construed as support for finalizing early for more established vendors.
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such a stupid rule. do you seriously not see a pattern in this? people will continue to be scammed with that rule in place
i wish i had the balls to FE or i'd be swimming in pounds of thurgood's jenkins right now!
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Yes, but we tell everyone always to remain in escrow. On the other hand, we aren't here to babysit - everyone needs to take personal responsibility for their security here. People are capable of making informed decisions on their own and if they understand the risks and decide to finalize early against all recommendations to the contrary, then we wouldn't be able to stop that anyway. And probably wouldn't want to since this is a free market.
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Well to start with, yes indeed staying in escrow in a magnificent tool.
When I began buying stuff for SR I was a bit hesitant because the vendors I wanted to buy from required FE from new buyers.
I did anyway FE and just trusted their reputation with knowing my own risks.
Now it is your choice when you are a new buyer and don't have yet the "required" stats to stay in escrow system and have to finalize. If you don't like this you can just look for a different vendor that don't requires FE. Fortunately the supply market is huge and you will surely find vendors that make business with newcomers.
As for scamming. Yes it a possibility that a vendor can scam people easily but so easy is for the buyers. The only difference is that vendors have actually invested money in becoming vendors and they really rely on their stats and reputation. So I believe that they don't tend to scam the buyers even if they are new. On the other hand I find it super easy for a buyers to lie and say that their substances haven't arrived and demand a reship or refund. We are dealing with drugs, so all kind of people are here. Also notice that because vendors rely on their stats and reputation, some of them will try and avoid having unhappy customers.
It all comes to personal choices in choosing the right vendor or choosing to trust the new buyer I guess. I will take though the side of the vendors because not only they invest and risk their money and freedom but also without them we would be able to talk right now.
I read somewhere here a similar thread where some vendor said that it would be nice to have rule that the newcomers have to FE. This statement is false as well cause it can easily help vendors in scamming.
Finally, again is your choice to choose to finalize early. I did it 2 times in the beginning and fortunately all went good. If you don't like it, just choose a different vendor. Easy :D
All the best
Adamiz
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During my vendor 'trial' we will say, I usually only had orders from members with heavy stats; 'testing me' we shall say.... Now a few months later, I started to get a abnormally large amount of new account orders. I change my policy to FE for new accounts and they all disappeared. Not sure if I was targeted for scamming but ether-way, FE has its place. But not for top notch vendors or top notch customers.
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If I’m a vendor and I send a buyer some drugs, even if that buyer does absolutely nothing I’ll still get my money automatically after seventeen days. But if I’m a buyer and I send a vendor my money and the vendor does absolutely nothing, will I still get my drugs automatically after seventeen days? I think not.
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If I’m a vendor and I send a buyer some drugs, even if that buyer does absolutely nothing I’ll still get my money automatically after seventeen days. But if I’m a buyer and I send a vendor my money and the vendor does absolutely nothing, will I still get my drugs automatically after seventeen days? I think not.
THIS! This system is retarded. Why not just stay in escrow and let the admins decide who's scamming who? All the vendor fucking needs is a tracking number and they win automatically. LOL at the mods making the rule that people can require FE, but then they sit back and say "we do not support making people FE"... If that was fucking true that rule wouldn't be in place! Fucking stupid
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You all bitch and complain about us vendors not realising, even on DPR's word 99%+ of transactions go smoothly. The <1% of transactions that screw up are usually scammers and it can only work one way, you have to trust vendors. If we trusted buyers to pay us without any guarantees we'd just get ripped off and thing would fall apart. If you don't like FE'ing then just find another vendor, there are plenty here who don't ask you to FE. It's all about risk in our eyes so if you work on weeding out scammers or know a better way then please share it with us because at the end of the day, it's our business.
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This system is not perfect by any means, but it is the best that we can come up with.
FE exists for those users who believe the situation calls for it and for anyone who thinks that FE is not necessary then they do not NEED to FE.
If I’m a vendor and I send a buyer some drugs, even if that buyer does absolutely nothing I’ll still get my money automatically after seventeen days. But if I’m a buyer and I send a vendor my money and the vendor does absolutely nothing, will I still get my drugs automatically after seventeen days? I think not.
THIS! This system is retarded. Why not just stay in escrow and let the admins decide who's scamming who? All the vendor fucking needs is a tracking number and they win automatically. LOL at the mods making the rule that people can require FE, but then they sit back and say "we do not support making people FE"... If that was fucking true that rule wouldn't be in place! Fucking stupid
I can send a blank piece of paper, tracked, to a buyer, and then it is their word/my word. So tracking doesn't solve any problem 100%.
Just bc the parcel is tracked doesn't mean the buyer received what they were paying for.
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You all bitch and complain about us vendors not realising, even on DPR's word 99%+ of transactions go smoothly. The <1% of transactions that screw up are usually scammers and it can only work one way, you have to trust vendors. If we trusted buyers to pay us without any guarantees we'd just get ripped off and thing would fall apart. If you don't like FE'ing then just find another vendor, there are plenty here who don't ask you to FE. It's all about risk in our eyes so if you work on weeding out scammers or know a better way then please share it with us because at the end of the day, it's our business.
99% of transactions go smoothly? what about the 100's of people that have gotten scammed in the 1 month that i've been here? IF you trusted buyers to pay you without any guarantees it WOULD STILL BE IN ESCROW. Escrow is the only thing that makes this site work. Keep fucking tracking numbers and you won't have a problem. It's bull shit that some of these vendors have 2+ accounts and just FE scam on one of them and then move on.
I don't plan on FEing anytime soon, but the FE scamming will continue to happen. Just take a look around the road at how many different vendors require FE on certain items. Some of them put your order "in transit" seconds after you order just so you can finalize. Such bull shit that a site based on escrow has obvious loopholes that are getting people scammed and the admins just sit back and count their money, and maybe 2/3 weeks later they MIGHT ban the account. Buyers "scamming" vendors is nowhere near as big of a problem as vendors scamming buyers, and don't sit there and act like it is. Even if the buyer manages to scam an idiot vendor who doesn't have a tracking number, what do they get? A 50% refund? Vendors are clearly favored over buyers in almost ALL situations. They ALWAYS get the benefit of the doubt in a he said/she said battle just because of their vendor stats... which have proved to be nothing with the numerous 100 rating vendors scamming people.
It's just a shame that such a great thing has such an easy way to scam people. Thurgood Jenkins said him self "I had 36,000 in my hand the other day and 13,000 in my account, I could have just ran off, But I didn't because I could make this business much bigger" (paraphrase) ... like are you serious????? I'm not tryna call out Thurgoood cause he SEEMS like a good vendor, but don't they all?
@jackofspades Of course that's a possiblity, but that's when we can take the vendors/buyers stats into consideration and let the admins decide what to do with the situation. Is that not the reason we have the fucking escrow system??? The tracking WILL deter any buyer scammer from saying they never recieved their package though, which is how i'm sure many have scammed vendors. If a vendor is a big enough scumbag to send a piece of paper with tracking through the mail then AT THE VERY LEAST their Vendor rating will go down. Which is better than nothing.
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If I’m a vendor and I send a buyer some drugs, even if that buyer does absolutely nothing I’ll still get my money automatically after seventeen days. But if I’m a buyer and I send a vendor my money and the vendor does absolutely nothing, will I still get my drugs automatically after seventeen days? I think not.
THIS! This system is retarded. Why not just stay in escrow and let the admins decide who's scamming who? All the vendor fucking needs is a tracking number and they win automatically. LOL at the mods making the rule that people can require FE, but then they sit back and say "we do not support making people FE"... If that was fucking true that rule wouldn't be in place! Fucking stupid
I can understand FE when you are a vendor like GreenOvenDoor, NorCalKing and NorCal420HookUp why you would require FE. Do you understand the mass quantities of drugs that these guys send out on a daily basis? Sometimes 2LB+ of bud, idk about you but I think guys like them should have the option of FE. Just being a vendor you will run into scammers all the time, auto-finalizing, etc. That shit puts a hold on your business, and top notch guys like this don't have time for all that.
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If I’m a vendor and I send a buyer some drugs, even if that buyer does absolutely nothing I’ll still get my money automatically after seventeen days. But if I’m a buyer and I send a vendor my money and the vendor does absolutely nothing, will I still get my drugs automatically after seventeen days? I think not.
THIS! This system is retarded. Why not just stay in escrow and let the admins decide who's scamming who? All the vendor fucking needs is a tracking number and they win automatically. LOL at the mods making the rule that people can require FE, but then they sit back and say "we do not support making people FE"... If that was fucking true that rule wouldn't be in place! Fucking stupid
I can understand FE when you are a vendor like GreenOvenDoor, NorCalKing and NorCal420HookUp why you would require FE. Do you understand the mass quantities of drugs that these guys send out on a daily basis? Sometimes 2LB+ of bud, idk about you but I think guys like them should have the option of FE. Just being a vendor you will run into scammers all the time, auto-finalizing, etc. That shit puts a hold on your business, and top notch guys like this don't have time for all that.
How do you figure? Vendors making the most money NEED buyers to FE? Fuck out of here. Vendors and buyers are fucking scammers. WHich is why the fucking escrow system was put into place. Let the admins decide who's scamming who. YOu talk about holding up businesses, but what about when a vendor goes rogue and you have to watch your money lose value for 17 days unable to get it out of escrow, or even if a vendor just doesn't message you back for a few days, there's nothing you can do. The vendor and buyer will just have to live with this. As long as that fucking stupid FE rule exists, people will continue to be scammed.
It's a fucking stupid rule and no one will be able to change my opinion on that.
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I can understand FE when you are a vendor like GreenOvenDoor, NorCalKing and NorCal420HookUp why you would require FE. Do you understand the mass quantities of drugs that these guys send out on a daily basis? Sometimes 2LB+ of bud, idk about you but I think guys like them should have the option of FE. Just being a vendor you will run into scammers all the time, auto-finalizing, etc. That shit puts a hold on your business, and top notch guys like this don't have time for all that.
I don't agree at all with this. If you're a smart businessman you'll always leave yourself with enough working capital to see you through unforeseen problems. It doesn't matter if the packages you're sending out are 1g or 1kg, the only difference is your working capital will be larger.
Escrow is a fundamental part of this site, and people should use it. However, FE isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Sellers can opt to insist on it, and buyers can opt to do it or shop elsewhere.
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I can understand FE when you are a vendor like GreenOvenDoor, NorCalKing and NorCal420HookUp why you would require FE. Do you understand the mass quantities of drugs that these guys send out on a daily basis? Sometimes 2LB+ of bud, idk about you but I think guys like them should have the option of FE. Just being a vendor you will run into scammers all the time, auto-finalizing, etc. That shit puts a hold on your business, and top notch guys like this don't have time for all that.
I don't agree at all with this. If you're a smart businessman you'll always leave yourself with enough working capital to see you through unforeseen problems. It doesn't matter if the packages you're sending out are 1g or 1kg, the only difference is your working capital will be larger.
Escrow is a fundamental part of this site, and people should use it. However, FE isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Sellers can opt to insist on it, and buyers can opt to do it or shop elsewhere.
Why isn't Fe going anywhere anytime soon? WHy not crackdown on vendors that make buyers FE?? What is the downfall in that?? Oh yeah less money for the admins..... I would be fine with vendors messaging buyers and convincing them to FE... but having listings that require FE where there are 3+ pages of feedback saying "FE' or "just FE'd crossing my fingers" is complete bullshit. Hands down this site's biggest flaw.
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brodie - I can't be bothered to read that whole post, I have a shit storm to deal with now but I got the idea of your post. Vendors own their business, if you don't like their terms, just like in the real world, you don't have to buy from them and vendors are well aware they lose business when they ask people to FE too, that is the tradeoff they make for security. And yes, a lot of people are "scammed", how many of these are actually scams would probably significantly cut down that number because buyers try to use their power of rating a vendor to coerce them and come to the forum to flare it up hoping the vendor will give in and send them their money back, I've seen it a lot and had people attempt it with me. Also, if there have been a few scams recently, think of how many packages are being sent out every day, my guess is over 5,000 or even 10,000 per day.
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Ok... Do you think everyone that gets scammed is a member of the forum? NO is the answer, probably less than half. Admins side with vendors (with good stats) way more than they do buyers. But once again this is the reason we have the fucking escrow system in place. It's just such bulllshit that the admins "don't support making buyers FE" but they're the ones that made it possible in the first place.
Are we really just gonna sit back and watch people get scammed like there is nothing we can do about it? It's just fucking stupid.
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The truth is, I don't care about people who get scammed after finalising early. If someone doesn't make the effort to research the seller or more broadly SR's ethos and history before they lay down some cash they can't afford to lose, I don't have any sympathy for them.
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The truth is, I don't care about people who get scammed after finalising early. If someone doesn't make the effort to research the seller or more broadly SR's ethos and history before they lay down some cash they can't afford to lose, I don't have any sympathy for them.
I said something similar in the thurgoodjenkins thread, about not caring about the people who finalize early. But you are wrong about the research aspect of your post. There was a 100 vendor that required FE for Cheap as fuck dank QPs and HPs and had amazing feedback, I was minutes away from ordering from him before I saw someone question him on the forums. That got me nervous enough not to order. But what other reasoning would I have NOT to order from the dude??? Great feedback, 100 rating what could go wrong right bro?
The rule is stupid and anyone who supports it is obviously profiting off of it.
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Yeah, well hence why I added the bit about researching SR's ethos and history as well as just the seller. You only need to visit these forums for a moment before you come across a thread discussing the dangers of early finalisation.
FE is the digital equivalent of giving your money to the street dealer who says he'll just go round the corner to get the goods. Wait here and I'll be right back my friend. FE is obviously a risky thing to do. It's just so obvious. And even if it isn't obvious to you, 5 mins on these forums is enough to tell you that it's risky. So if you choose to do it and you lose out, well better luck next time.
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Ok I agree, I'm just saying that vendors should NEVER be allowed the option to force someone to FE for a certain listing. But the admins don't care so it's whatever. I don't plan on FEing any time soon, so I'll be fine.
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Ok I agree, I'm just saying that vendors should NEVER be allowed the option to force someone to FE for a certain listing. But the admins don't care so it's whatever. I don't plan on FEing any time soon, so I'll be fine.
Keyword, "force."
What vendor has the power to force anyone to FE? I don't know of any. That would be horrible if any vendor could force someone to FE. SR would need to be burned down to the ground if that were possible.
See what I did there?
It's so simple; some vendors make FE for some listings or some buyer attributes a condition of purchase. If the buyer doesn't agree to the conditions, no one can force them to. There's no cyber gun being put to a buyer's head. The buyers who FE are literally choosing to do so. Sure there might be some inducement like a lower price or free shipping (or being the only vendor to offer something unique). But the option to FE is strictly the responsibility and choice of the buyer.
If SR completely outlaws FE, it won't stop the practice of FE. Why? Those vendors that require it on condition of sale will just direct buyers offsite - probably something as simple as directing buyers to deposit coins into a wallet. And guess what? Those buyers will in all probability comply.
Full disclosure: We have a policy for FE to weed out scammers. It's really just a limit. Newish buyers or people with bad stats, if their order is >$500 then either they can buy less(and be covered under escrow) or FE. Their choice. Otherwise we won't honor their order and cancel it. If the buyer has bought from us before, then this doesn't apply.
It's just like we provide a strong 4096bit PGP key. We don't *force* anyone to use it but for those who do, we provide them with a secure key to protect their data with.
BTW, we have yet to ask anyone to FE or to buy less. Plus we use DCNs on all orders so we don''t have to worry about the "order never arrived" scam.
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Although i agree with you mostly about not FE and staying in escrow.
As others have said new buyers with lower stats can be an issue, and it's up to the vendor if they should decide to do business with them or not.
If its a problem for you there are plenty of others on the road waiting to fulfill your request.
For a buyer its pretty easy to tell by looking at the vendors feedback to see if he's legitimate or not.
So what is it exactly don't you "get" ? this topic has been talked about countless times, and pretty easy to understand.
TLDR: Don't finalize early
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Yeah you guys were right. Allowing vendors to make FE only orders was a fantastic idea.
Don't believe me just ask my man thurgood and planetexpress
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Hey there brody, thanks for bringing my name up. Is there anything anyone would like to ask? I'd love to answer.
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I used to be a big hater on the FE requirements, but I don't really care now honestly.
If I am dealing with a vendor for the first time, I will order something small and relatively cheap regardless of what their feedback score is. This way, I can see if I would like to purchase from them in the future. If I get scammed, at least it won't be for a lot of btc and I will know to avoid them in the future.
If things go well, I may just FE in the future since I know it helps them out, and I wouldn't be buying large quantities anyway.
FE or don't, there are a lot of vendors to choose from in the marketplace.
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Missed the edit, so here is a followup :
Being that SR is what it is, I pretty much assume that at some point I will get ripped off. Another reason I don't buy much at a time. We are buying illegal things over the internet, bad shit is going to happen, and it is a testament to the community here that bad shit doesn't happen way more often.
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If I’m a vendor and I send a buyer some drugs, even if that buyer does absolutely nothing I’ll still get my money automatically after seventeen days. But if I’m a buyer and I send a vendor my money and the vendor does absolutely nothing, will I still get my drugs automatically after seventeen days? I think not.
In fact you would, or at least get a partial rebate if the vendor did indeed do nothing. Because if you don't FE you can take the issue to the resolution center. Then the vendor must provide proof that they actually sent you the order.
And honestly, on an anonymous open market like this there are always always risks. There's always someone coming up with a new way to scam people out of money but the risks are on both the vendor and buyer's ends. There are precautions and measures built into the system to minimize risk as much as possible as long as you're making smart decisions.
The problem, is that most people do not make the smart decisions and end up getting burned. Then they come on the forums to complain about how all vendors are ass holes and they ALL require everyone to FE which just isn't true. I've been on SR for over a year and have made over 50 purchases and have never once finalized early and have also never been scammed.
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I'm convinced that planetexpress is a silk road admin, and that's the only reason why his account is still up. I mean seriously the dude has 20 plus pages of people being scammed and the admins do absolutely nothing? If an admins excuse is "we don't know if anyone got scammed yet", not only is that a lie, but they could easily make him take his listings down until people start getting their stuff.
Its just a shame that such a great site can have such a massive flaw.
The ONLY reason the before mentioned FE rule is in place is so the admins can continue making money off scammers. I'm not even mad at the scammers (actually a very little bit jealous in a weird way), cause I'm not an idiot and won't get scammed, but my anger has slowly drifted into the direction of the admins. They know exactly what's going on and they know exactly what rule could stop it.
Admins are the scammers here
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I'm convinced that planetexpress is a silk road admin, and that's the only reason why his account is still up. I mean seriously the dude has 20 plus pages of people being scammed and the admins do absolutely nothing? If an admins excuse is "we don't know if anyone got scammed yet", not only is that a lie, but they could easily make him take his listings down until people start getting their stuff.
Its just a shame that such a great site can have such a massive flaw.
The ONLY reason the before mentioned FE rule is in place is so the admins can continue making money off scammers. I'm not even mad at the scammers (actually a very little bit jealous in a weird way), cause I'm not an idiot and won't get scammed, but my anger has slowly drifted into the direction of the admins. They know exactly what's going on and they know exactly what rule could stop it.
Admins are the scammers here
lmao just shut up dude... FE is a fact of life, i've done it plenty of times (with small orders and trusted ppl [meaning that I MYSELF trust them, because i've already received before or whatever]) and only lost out one time, which wasn't even done thru the SR escrow system.. luckily it was for pocket change pretty much lol
FE is not evil, the admins are not evil, some people are just assholes and want nothing more than to take your cash, no rule can change that and how would you even enforce an FE ban?? it's totally unreasonable.. use some critical thinking skills here