Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: tina on May 23, 2013, 05:35 pm
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People say that the banks look for variations in deposit trends. What if I opened up an account with a small local branch and started to immediately deposit $800 every single Friday.... To sort of establish how "things will be" from then on out.
1) Does that amount to too much $$ deposited per month?
2) Will I have to tell them or make up a profession / job that is cash intensive? Like bar tending?
3) Unfortunately, I have so many $20 bills. I want them to have all of them. Will small bill deposits matter?
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People say that the banks look for variations in deposit trends. What if I opened up an account with a small local branch and started to immediately deposit $800 every single Friday.... To sort of establish how "things will be" from then on out.
1) Does that amount to too much $$ deposited per month?
2) Will I have to tell them or make up a profession / job that is cash intensive? Like bar tending?
3) Unfortunately, I have so many $20 bills. I want them to have all of them. Will small bill deposits matter?
1) There's no such thing as too much or too little. If you trigger an investigation they won't care how big or small the deposits are, they'll want to know where it's from. Generally if it's more than 50% of the average wage in your country, you shouldn't keep depositing cash like that and should get creative.
2) No, because what if they ask for proof? Then of course you have to change your story which is even more suspicious. Anyway, if you tell your tax agency that, there's a potential charge for tax evasion.
3) Not usually, it depends on what reasons you have for having the cash, but generally it isn't the quantity of bills you hand over but the total sum of them.
However, I think you've missed a major point. Creating 2-3 banks will not make you less suspicious as it is rarely the bank's own internal software which causes problems. Each transaction has to pass through a clearing house which is where the work-horse of software is scanning for unusual activity, who then pass the warning onto banks and sometimes your financial crimes specialists, depending on your region and how sure their are a crime is being committed. In short, it won't effect you having multiple banks, they all share information with the bigger agencies anyway who combine all that information.
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People say that the banks look for variations in deposit trends. What if I opened up an account with a small local branch and started to immediately deposit $800 every single Friday.... To sort of establish how "things will be" from then on out.
1) Does that amount to too much $$ deposited per month?
2) Will I have to tell them or make up a profession / job that is cash intensive? Like bar tending?
3) Unfortunately, I have so many $20 bills. I want them to have all of them. Will small bill deposits matter?
1) There's no such thing as too much or too little. If you trigger an investigation they won't care how big or small the deposits are, they'll want to know where it's from. Generally if it's more than 50% of the average wage in your country, you shouldn't keep depositing cash like that and should get creative.
2) No, because what if they ask for proof? Then of course you have to change your story which is even more suspicious. Anyway, if you tell your tax agency that, there's a potential charge for tax evasion.
3) Not usually, it depends on what reasons you have for having the cash, but generally it isn't the quantity of bills you hand over but the total sum of them.
However, I think you've missed a major point. Creating 2-3 banks will not make you less suspicious as it is rarely the bank's own internal software which causes problems. Each transaction has to pass through a clearing house which is where the work-horse of software is scanning for unusual activity, who then pass the warning onto banks and sometimes your financial crimes specialists, depending on your region and how sure their are a crime is being committed. In short, it won't effect you having multiple banks, they all share information with the bigger agencies anyway who combine all that information.
:'(
mo money. mo problems. Back to the drawing board....
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:'(
mo money. mo problems. Back to the drawing board....
Unfortunately it's the way the world works. Financial regulations to anyone who hasn't worked or studied in the sector is almost cryptic to try and read since you need a fair bit of base knowledge to work from which most people don't bother studying. If you want a good launderer, they usually cost a fair amount and you won't find any good advice for less than a few hundred at least.
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Shiit, wish I had your problems...
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Shiit, wish I had your problems...
I second that :P
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People say that the banks look for variations in deposit trends. What if I opened up an account with a small local branch and started to immediately deposit $800 every single Friday.... To sort of establish how "things will be" from then on out.
You can do that, but if it's inconsistent with the way you've banked in the past, your account may be flagged and you'll have to justify your transactions to your bank manager. That's all part of our wonderful KYC (Know Your Customer) regulations that all banks gladly follow.
1) Does that amount to too much $$ deposited per month?
Maybe. If it were double that, then yes. The closer you get to the $10,000 reporting limit, the likelier you are to get flagged and the likelier you are to get charged with a heavy criminal penalty known as "Structuring", which is the evasion of the reporting limit. You are truly fucked if that ever happens because you're presumed guilty until proven innocent. It's like you're suddenly dealing with the Mexican or Turkish legal systems ;D
2) Will I have to tell them or make up a profession / job that is cash intensive? Like bar tending?
Yes. Absolutely. If you don't have plausible deniability when push comes to shove, you're fucked again. Learn to assert your rights above all else if you don't know how to do so already. If ever questioned, DON'T LIE TO THE POLICE. Keep your mouth shut, but don't lie. And don't write a lie down on paper either. That counts as fraud as well as obstruction of justice and also money laundering since you're dealing with cash. Lots of jail time for all those.
3) Unfortunately, I have so many $20 bills. I want them to have all of them. Will small bill deposits matter?
Yes. They look at the total quantity. It doesn't matter in what denominations it's deposited in.
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People say that the banks look for variations in deposit trends. What if I opened up an account with a small local branch and started to immediately deposit $800 every single Friday.... To sort of establish how "things will be" from then on out.
1) Does that amount to too much $$ deposited per month?
2) Will I have to tell them or make up a profession / job that is cash intensive? Like bar tending?
3) Unfortunately, I have so many $20 bills. I want them to have all of them. Will small bill deposits matter?
Too much cash? Sorry to hear of your dilemma. P.M. me for my SR wallet info. :-*
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if you need help getting rid of it, you can count on me
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However, I think you've missed a major point. Creating 2-3 banks will not make you less suspicious as it is rarely the bank's own internal software which causes problems. Each transaction has to pass through a clearing house which is where the work-horse of software is scanning for unusual activity, who then pass the warning onto banks and sometimes your financial crimes specialists, depending on your region and how sure their are a crime is being committed. In short, it won't effect you having multiple banks, they all share information with the bigger agencies anyway who combine all that information.
Is this true? I can't open 10 bank accounts at different banks and deposit 300 a week in each and fly under the radar? Can someone confirm this?
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Is this true? I can't open 10 bank accounts at different banks and deposit 300 a week in each and fly under the radar? Can someone confirm this?
Yes it is true. If they are all in the same name they will all be considered together. Computers, internet etc make this harder than in the past. You need "smurfs" if you want to do that, but I would not recommend the smurf method.
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just wash your cash, bring it to the local laundromat and tell them to dry clean it and dont skimp on the startch
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Confirmed. If you've never been a resident of a state or federal penitentiary before, try that out and you'll get a good chance to spend some time in one.
EVERYTHING IS LINKED. This is due to government taxes, especially income tax, and our cherished War on Drugs.
Is this true? I can't open 10 bank accounts at different banks and deposit 300 a week in each and fly under the radar? Can someone confirm this?
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One thing you can do is start an LLC and claim to do free lance work. Keep tract of you're deposits and use turbo tax at the end of the year. So long as you meet you're tax burden no one will look into it. It would help if you really do make some real money from your LLC.
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One thing you can do is start an LLC and claim to do free lance work. Keep tract of you're deposits and use turbo tax at the end of the year. So long as you meet you're tax burden no one will look into it. It would help if you really do make some real money from your LLC.
You need better laundering advice. If you're doing this personally, or anyone for that matter, abandon that plan and tucktail. Get a proper launderer's advice because you're going to get somebody landed in a cell with that kind of idea.
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Doesnt matter on the amount 3-4k+ a week is fine. Get stupid things to come out of the account on a monthly basis. Magazine subscription, Worldvision (3rd world child sponsor) just stupid things that will come out on a monthly basis but nothing attached to your name. It will have a debit card so go and grab groceries with it, keep it simple, crack jokes at the bank with the tellers and they will start to know you.
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Doesnt matter on the amount 3-4k+ a week is fine. Get stupid things to come out of the account on a monthly basis. Magazine subscription, Worldvision (3rd world child sponsor) just stupid things that will come out on a monthly basis but nothing attached to your name. It will have a debit card so go and grab groceries with it, keep it simple, crack jokes at the bank with the tellers and they will start to know you.
You have got to be kidding me. Over-friendliness is in most of the AML manuals and most of the time it isn't the cashier you need to be cautious of, it's the automated software in the banks, clearing houses and tax authorities.
@OP - There's so much bad advice oozing from this thread, just mail me or Limetless because at this rate you might as well hand yourself into LEA if some of the posts from here are to go by.
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If you don't have plan for the money, please say you atleast have a solid exit strategy. the exit strategy comes before all things.
As for your money problems you do as you wish but the Patriot Act allows for worldwide revenue recognition.
Do some research online and their are ways to launder but you need to identify which one works for you safely.
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I suggest opening up a carwash or a gormet cheese shop. Seems like your best option.
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@OP - There's so much bad advice oozing from this thread, just mail me or Limetless because at this rate you might as well hand yourself into LEA if some of the posts from here are to go by.
Are your methods individually tailored for the person or are they general laundering methods you can find widely available with a quick google search? I'm curious what advice you have to offer. Is this a paid service?
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looks like i need to do some reading on financial law
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@OP - There's so much bad advice oozing from this thread, just mail me or Limetless because at this rate you might as well hand yourself into LEA if some of the posts from here are to go by.
Are your methods individually tailored for the person or are they general laundering methods you can find widely available with a quick google search? I'm curious what advice you have to offer. Is this a paid service?
General advice or critique I will never charge somebody for, that's unfair. As for my methods, you won't find them on a Google search as by the time any method ends up on Google, it'll certainly be known by the FATF and by that time, I consider the method unusable. Paid consultations are only after the stage of my advice because it's not for everyone as if you already have a working method or could work with a little adjustment there's no point in me going off on an entire different path and receiving a small consultation fee when I can save the idea for a different client who needs a whole new plan for a much bigger fee if you follow my logic on that. So yes, it can be a paid service, but in many cases I just don't charge a fee or where I do, I make it abundantly clear before we begin exactly what the price will be and what to expect from it.
For now, I'm not doing paid consultations unless it's worth over $3,000 for me because I'm writing an extensive guide on the subject due to be released on SilkRoad in the future and I need a lot of time dedicated to it if I'm to meet my deadline. Generally I cannot speak on behalf of Limetless though so I believe he is still open to paid consultations right now so if you're after an entire plan, drop him a mail.
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So, if you'll be offering a guide (either for sale or for public information) on SilkRoad what makes you think that the FATF will not manage to get their hands on the guide, rendering it useless, as you say? I think most of the techniques available as public info online are generally vague enough that even if the FATF did know about the techniques, they wouldn't be able to incriminate based upon that alone. Isn't that the purpose of a good way to launder you money? In a way which doesn't draw attention and is believable to authorities in case of an audit? The way I see it is that for people to successfully launder they need to build their own plan according to their personal factors such as amount of money being laundered, education, job, family, age, etc..
Anyways, I'll be curious to see what you have to offer when the guide eventually comes out. Hopefully one day when I strike it rich I won't have to launder my money but just in case I do... well, knowledge is power.
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So, if you'll be offering a guide (either for sale or for public information) on SilkRoad what makes you think that the FATF will not manage to get their hands on the guide, rendering it useless, as you say? I think most of the techniques available as public info online are generally vague enough that even if the FATF did know about the techniques, they wouldn't be able to incriminate based upon that alone. Isn't that the purpose of a good way to launder you money? In a way which doesn't draw attention and is believable to authorities in case of an audit? The way I see it is that for people to successfully launder they need to build their own plan according to their personal factors such as amount of money being laundered, education, job, family, age, etc..
Anyways, I'll be curious to see what you have to offer when the guide eventually comes out. Hopefully one day when I strike it rich I won't have to launder my money but just in case I do... well, knowledge is power.
Yes you're absolutely right that the FATF will be able to get their hands on it, but I address this too through the process of identifying how new ideas are generated - an art in itself really, the exact methods mentioned will of course be said with a tone of caution to using them and emphasis on adapting and modifying ideas to best suit individual needs.
Many techniques online can be applied yes, however the weakness is not the idea itself entirely although this can be a downfall, but the lack of background knowledge around. There is also the misconception that laundering is some difficult task or that setting up offshore accounts is somehow for the rich - both of which are false. Laundering is only hard because accessing reliable information is hard to come by and somebody giving you the skillset to do so is equally difficult with the amount of misinformation around so a sound source of key information is what is needed really and my references to "professionals" is only reference to the standard of knowledge they provide and its accuracy - I genuinely believe a person with no real life laundering experience could launder money as everyone has to start out from somewhere, but I believe that any good consultant on the issue should have experience in real life in order to be able to effectively convey the process of thought too.
Blending in is part of laundering, but I have maintained there are 2 methods of being indistinguishable which are firstly blending in with everything else, and secondly is not being seen at all as you cannot distinguish what you cannot see.
Anyway yes, I'll be offering very limited review copies of the book for free so people can hear the thoughts of others before they reach to their pockets to buy since it's not a simple $5 e-book (yet, until the pirates come along).
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@OP - There's so much bad advice oozing from this thread, just mail me or Limetless because at this rate you might as well hand yourself into LEA if some of the posts from here are to go by.
Are your methods individually tailored for the person or are they general laundering methods you can find widely available with a quick google search? I'm curious what advice you have to offer. Is this a paid service?
i can personally guarantee that StExo's advice isnt the sort of thing you will get in a quick google search. the info he gave me was individual to my situation and country. worth every cent
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I agree with assiegear that StExo is good. It's not for small timers. If you're big enough to require professional services, then what they charge isn't much compared to the whole picture. You'd probably loose more to taxes depending on where you are. These guys didn't learn to navigate laws and red tape overnight. Once you understand how the whole thing works you'll be amazed. Pure art and elegance.
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People say that the banks look for variations in deposit trends. What if I opened up an account with a small local branch and started to immediately deposit $800 every single Friday.... To sort of establish how "things will be" from then on out.
1) Does that amount to too much $$ deposited per month?
2) Will I have to tell them or make up a profession / job that is cash intensive? Like bar tending?
3) Unfortunately, I have so many $20 bills. I want them to have all of them. Will small bill deposits matter?
Open another account.. People do it all the time, especially married couples.
I have 3 acct currently active, a checking that me and my girl shares, and a separate checking and savings acct which funds are deposited every week like clock work. I won't share the amount but it's a good amount. Been doing this for 10yrs now without any trouble. Banks they want your money..They want you to deposit YOUR money so that they have something to play with...Only problem is there's always that one hero type character who just started working as a teller and want to make a name of him/herself by causing trouble, have to watch out for those types. Long as it's not different amounts deposited every week you should be alright. With the economy the way it is a lot of people do small jobs for a little cash as long as you don't go over board and start depositing a couple g's a week all of sudden. Just make sure you withdraw and make purchases to keep it active day by day and to also keep the balance from going to high to quick. Also, banks don't tend to snoop or care unless they are ordered too by LE or IRS...So keeping a low profile and nothing to make a teller go " WOW!, that's a lot of cash" One more thing, it all depends on the bank too. Smaller banks tend to get personal with their customers, just saying. And IF you just have THAT much cash, open a safety deposit box.
People are probably going to disagree...But after doing this for 10yrs+ and have really close friends and family who all work at a major bank who all provided me with info and tips it works for me. Of course there's more to it..But, I won't go into that. Good luck and being overly paranoid can get you into more trouble than keeping you safe sometimes.
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I suggest opening up a carwash or a gormet cheese shop. Seems like your best option.
The car wash idea won't work. A laundromat would be better if you need your cash laundered. :-*
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You really need better professional advisement with such a situation like this. I'd suggest you better call Saul.
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I suggest opening up a carwash or a gormet cheese shop. Seems like your best option.
The car wash idea won't work. A laundromat would be better if you need your cash laundered. :-*
Yes, I know you're probably joking, but a laundromat is a horrific idea when laundering money.
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I suggest opening up a carwash or a gormet cheese shop. Seems like your best option.
The car wash idea won't work. A laundromat would be better if you need your cash laundered. :-*
Why is that a bad idea?
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I suggest opening up a carwash or a gormet cheese shop. Seems like your best option.
The car wash idea won't work. A laundromat would be better if you need your cash laundered. :-*
Why is that a bad idea?
It's well known from the Al Capone era, where the term "laundering" comes from in money laundering. Think about a laundromat. It's an easy place to see how many people come in/out of the place and if there is a glass front like most I've seen, then some officers can just sit and watch how many customers you get on their observation versus profit in the book. If there is a small difference fair enough, they can't do much as any good lawyer could tear it to shreds for probably error. However, if there is a large difference, this is an extremely strong indicator that laundering is occurring so they will probe in much more detail to find where the money in coming from, pull your bank statements, see if your lifestyle matches the purported earnings etc. They want to know where the money is from so they can tax it too, both the police and the tax agencies have a reason to work together against you on this and both of those agencies are usually 2 most powerful organizations under government with considerable powers.
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I suggest opening up a carwash or a gormet cheese shop. Seems like your best option.
The car wash idea won't work. A laundromat would be better if you need your cash laundered. :-*
Why is that a bad idea?
It's well known from the Al Capone era, where the term "laundering" comes from in money laundering. Think about a laundromat. It's an easy place to see how many people come in/out of the place and if there is a glass front like most I've seen, then some officers can just sit and watch how many customers you get on their observation versus profit in the book. If there is a small difference fair enough, they can't do much as any good lawyer could tear it to shreds for probably error. However, if there is a large difference, this is an extremely strong indicator that laundering is occurring so they will probe in much more detail to find where the money in coming from, pull your bank statements, see if your lifestyle matches the purported earnings etc. They want to know where the money is from so they can tax it too, both the police and the tax agencies have a reason to work together against you on this and both of those agencies are usually 2 most powerful organizations under government with considerable powers.
Thank you for clarifying this, but it's highly unlikely to be observed without the shady business being linked to the legit one. What about registering the company to another person to make it even safer?
And what's about a pizzeria? It's hard to control the actual incoming.
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Whoever said Freelance work- that is an awful idea (no offense meant). If that much money is coming in the bank will report it to the IRS who will expect 1099's to be filed. If, God forbid, anyone doing this is ever caught - they will be asked to prove who they were freelancing for. The Government is not stupid.
There is never a thing as too much cash. Keep your money out of the bank. Putting it in the bank does nothing but raise eyebrows about where its coming from. Even if you open an LLC and claim some type of business if you put enough cash in it will raise suspicions.
If for some reason you feel the need to secure the safety of your money in a bank - get a safety deposit box. However if caught- this will also be seized before you have any chance to access it.
Cash is King. Find a way to hide your cash.
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Whoever said Freelance work- that is an awful idea (no offense meant). If that much money is coming in the bank will report it to the IRS who will expect 1099's to be filed. If, God forbid, anyone doing this is ever caught - they will be asked to prove who they were freelancing for. The Government is not stupid.
There is never a thing as too much cash. Keep your money out of the bank. Putting it in the bank does nothing but raise eyebrows about where its coming from. Even if you open an LLC and claim some type of business if you put enough cash in it will raise suspicions.
If for some reason you feel the need to secure the safety of your money in a bank - get a safety deposit box. However if caught- this will also be seized before you have any chance to access it.
Cash is King. Find a way to hide your cash.
Yes, because we can all make payments (which are kept on record, just like bank statements) for everything with cash.
These days, legitimate, properly-washed money is king. And what's the problem with paying some taxes? As far as I know, it's a great way to get anyone who would otherwise be snooping off your back. A good taxpayer is like a dream for the government. Even if you are doing something illegitimate they have less cause to care, because they get a good piece of it. Just keep your legitimate income middle class level and you'll stay in the 25-30% range. If you're an intelligent, resourceful dealer your profit margin is many times that. Pay your bills with the legitimate money and live humble.
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I think you misunderstood me P2P. The initial poster expressed no interest in paying taxes or laundering money except perhaps claiming to have a bartending job and wanted to open multiple bank accounts. Properly laundered money is an entirely different subject and freelancing without 1099s to back it up won't hold up if your caught. If your caught the first thing they do is seize your money then make you prove its legit meaning W2s, 1099, speaking with people who have hired you etc. If they can find your money and take it - they will do everything in their power to keep it.
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The car wash idea won't work. A laundromat would be better if you need your cash laundered. :-*
Why is that a bad idea?
It's well known from the Al Capone era, where the term "laundering" comes from in money laundering. Think about a laundromat. It's an easy place to see how many people come in/out of the place and if there is a glass front like most I've seen, then some officers can just sit and watch how many customers you get on their observation versus profit in the book. If there is a small difference fair enough, they can't do much as any good lawyer could tear it to shreds for probably error. However, if there is a large difference, this is an extremely strong indicator that laundering is occurring so they will probe in much more detail to find where the money in coming from, pull your bank statements, see if your lifestyle matches the purported earnings etc. They want to know where the money is from so they can tax it too, both the police and the tax agencies have a reason to work together against you on this and both of those agencies are usually 2 most powerful organizations under government with considerable powers.
Thank you for clarifying this, but it's highly unlikely to be observed without the shady business being linked to the legit one. What about registering the company to another person to make it even safer?
And what's about a pizzeria? It's hard to control the actual incoming.
Because these days no physical surveillance is necessary. There's enough data about how much money the average laundromat (or car wash or hair salon or pizza joint) in a given area makes to make outliers obvious. Bringing in much more than the usual - especially if its cash - will guarantee at the very least an audit or government inquiry. The same goes if your pattern of banking activity is unusual compared to most businesses in your purported category. StExo is right: its a bad idea.
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Thank you for clarifying this, but it's highly unlikely to be observed without the shady business being linked to the legit one. What about registering the company to another person to make it even safer?
And what's about a pizzeria? It's hard to control the actual incoming.
Because these days no physical surveillance is necessary. There's enough data about how much money the average laundromat (or car wash or hair salon or pizza joint) in a given area makes to make outliers obvious. Bringing in much more than the usual - especially if its cash - will guarantee at the very least an audit or government inquiry. The same goes if your pattern of banking activity is unusual compared to most businesses in your purported category. StExo is right: its a bad idea.
Spot on there laddie. The automated systems will classify a person/business based on known trends, algorithms and statistical analysis, many tax authorities, especially the IRS have their own supercomputer to do this 24/7 as their goal is to rather get false-positives instead of false-negatives so it isn't hard to get flagged up for unusual business patterns if something fishy is up so you have to be smart about it. One you've been flagged, trust me, you will be visited and they may/may not ever inform you they're watching so don't think because they haven't busted down your door means they haven't noticed - the tax collector certainly has an armoury of power to work with.
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You really need better professional advisement with such a situation like this. I'd suggest you better call Saul.
This made my day.
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I suggest opening up a carwash or a gormet cheese shop. Seems like your best option.
The car wash idea won't work. A laundromat would be better if you need your cash laundered. :-*
Yes, I know you're probably joking, but a laundromat is a horrific idea when laundering money.
Hey hon, business here is quarters heavy, bitches got ROLLS over here. :p You are doing it right if you have sacks of spare change?
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I suggest opening up a carwash or a gormet cheese shop. Seems like your best option.
The car wash idea won't work. A laundromat would be better if you need your cash laundered. :-*
Yes, I know you're probably joking, but a laundromat is a horrific idea when laundering money.
Hey hon, business here is quarters heavy, bitches got ROLLS over here. :p You are doing it right if you have sacks of spare change?
No because it can easily come back and haunt you in a few years time. Most tax investigators have degrees in accounting, finance or banking and usually served as chartered accountants before so they know the tricks of the trade and can spot when something is amiss so in order to beat them, you have to know what they know and do what they do.
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I suggest opening up a carwash or a gormet cheese shop. Seems like your best option.
The car wash idea won't work. A laundromat would be better if you need your cash laundered. :-*
Yes, I know you're probably joking, but a laundromat is a horrific idea when laundering money.
Hey hon, business here is quarters heavy, bitches got ROLLS over here. :p You are doing it right if you have sacks of spare change?
No because it can easily come back and haunt you in a few years time. Most tax investigators have degrees in accounting, finance or banking and usually served as chartered accountants before so they know the tricks of the trade and can spot when something is amiss so in order to beat them, you have to know what they know and do what they do.
And you for example know what and how they do without having studied it?
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And you for example know what and how they do without having studied it?
I don't recall ever saying I haven't.