Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: ColdFrost on September 19, 2012, 05:32 am
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I was upset when I started this thread. I am glad it has progressed in a positive matter to have a possible solution.
SR should look at some of the suggestions.
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feel better now that you vented? Have you actually thought about this at all?
Its an "open" forum. To fight them is just a waste of time. They can just create another account.
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Captchas would go a long way.
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feel better now that you vented? Have you actually thought about this at all?
Its an "open" forum. To fight them is just a waste of time. They can just create another account.
Yep spammers will always be around if they are seeing positive hits from what they're doing. They won't stick around if its not worth it to them. The best way I can think of is for forum members to keep talking about possible scams, name and shame people and share information in an open/inclusive way. Captchas are an option but can be a bit of a pain, but perhaps worth it.
I was targeted earlier in the week about Mt Gox deals, but a couple of those on the email string said it was a scam. They stopped me from wasting my time checking it and discovering for myself that it was a scam.
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Captchas would go a long way.
Yeah I don't know why they haven't implemented that yet. Guess you just gotta deal until they do.
That'd be funny if it was the feds just trying to piss off DPR. Heheh...
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Captchas would go a long way.
Not really. Its all one account. Appears to be a rather manual attack.
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Captchas would go a long way.
Yeah I don't know why they haven't implemented that yet. Guess you just gotta deal until they do.
That'd be funny if it was the feds just trying to piss off DPR. Heheh...
Hey HardHustle. Watch your neighbors opening their mouth. You're ok, but you need to shut someone up. That's all I will say.
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bai
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Captchas would go a long way.
Yeah I don't know why they haven't implemented that yet. Guess you just gotta deal until they do.
That'd be funny if it was the feds just trying to piss off DPR. Heheh...
Hey HardHustle. Watch your neighbors opening their mouth. You're ok, but you need to shut someone up. That's all I will say.
how cryptic of you
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Restricting new members from starting threads and sending private messages until they have been a member for 7 days and have 20 posts would solve this issue. Additionally I'd also implement account email confirmation, captchas and censors.
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Restricting new members from starting threads and sending private messages until they have been a member for 7 days and have 20 posts would solve this issue. Additionally I'd also implement account email confirmation, captchas and censors.
Email confirmation would be a bad idea here, the rest is good. Perhaps a new batch of moderators, say 4 relatively active members from different timezones with the only objective being to close spam threads and ban spam accounts. No actual forum policing and they're kept on a tight leash.
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Restricting new members from starting threads and sending private messages until they have been a member for 7 days and have 20 posts would solve this issue. Additionally I'd also implement account email confirmation, captchas and censors.
You are right about that, then the problem becomes newbs posting totally unrelated content to the end of someone elses thread.
how about your rule + a newb forum as the only place they can post for that period of time. 3 days, 5, 7days...whateva.
That may work.
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Ah a newb forum would be brilliant.
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Restricting new members from starting threads and sending private messages until they have been a member for 7 days and have 20 posts would solve this issue. Additionally I'd also implement account email confirmation, captchas and censors.
Email confirmation would be a bad idea here, the rest is good. Perhaps a new batch of moderators, say 4 relatively active members from different timezones with the only objective being to close spam threads and ban spam accounts. No actual forum policing and they're kept on a tight leash.
Only tor email providers would be accepted, obviously.
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Doesn't SMF support moderation queues? Just set it so that all posts made by newly registered users have to be approved until the user makes X amount of posts. Even if the queue is flooded with spam, fuck it! SR needs some time off from the flux of noobs anyway so it can scale to handle the demand.
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Restricting new members from starting threads and sending private messages until they have been a member for 7 days and have 20 posts would solve this issue. Additionally I'd also implement account email confirmation, captchas and censors.
Min posts before starting threads is a good idea. Am nearing 300 but havent thought of a question that I needed to open a thread for that hasn't already been asked.
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^^If there is no moderation queue feature, then restricting the ability to PM and start new threads to a certain post count would be the next best thing. Both solutions have the potential to "censor" the alt accounts, whistleblowers, and supposed government insiders. Too bad there isn't a "community" moderation queue where users can volunteer to transparently flag the obvious spam.
They can also try combining email confirmation, strong captcha, and only allowing new users to post one new thread every few hours. That would more than quadruple the shitstain's workload. Modifying SMF to only allow newly activated accounts to create threads after an arbitrary delay--while also having the thread actually show up to only that account if spam is detected--would cripple any current bot.
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How about the PGP test idea via a tormail account? And the people who dont know of either are pointed to the forums to learn, because its how alot of us did. Not just for spam but to filter the people who arent serious. and then only one forum account per account on the main site? PGP test would make signing up for an acount abit longer and maybe not worth there time as they have to setup a bunch of accounts (tormail,new PGP key) before accessing SR. At the moment making a shill account or new account in an attempt to scam Vendors and spam the forums is all too easy.
or we could just ask there social security/government ID number. That way when we finally get pawned all the journos, politicians and LE daughters who use this would get pwn'd aswell ;)
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Everyone must find the golden easter egg randomly hidden anywhere on clear net, then and only then, you must take a photo of the egg with a copy of your photo ID for verification you may be granted access to these prestige forums!
C'mon I know you losers arn't getting this pissy about control issues. It's just a little spam, get over it, it's being taken care pretty well as it is.
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But its so annoying I see [1] next to my messages and im like OmGzz maybe it been Pine asking to meet up IRL for sex, and its just mt gix ;(
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I don't not know about forcing anyone into using a particualr email provider. If you guys recall, you actually do not even need to provide an email to register here. It should stay that way in my opinion. It is an anon forum after all.
Combating these clowns with a manual approval process will only slow SR admins down even more.
I think the answer has already been found in create a newbie forum (must have 50 posts/ 7days registered) before you can post outside.
...something like that. Yeah it will piss off the trolls that reg an accnt just to talk shit on one particular thread, but put it in place until this Mt. Shix goes away.
....we are on the bleeding edge of the darkweb here.....why is it so hard to get shit done?
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YES!
Someone get this done. Then we all take turns Modding the "newbie" forum.
I'll go first. I'll do it for 3 months. Then someone elses turn.
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We dont need more captchas that dont work, especially seeming most the people posting on here are fucked anyway and can probably barely fucking read (example: me). Theres plenty of anonymous email providers or how about Submitting a new PGP key. its been awhile since i set it up but i Think it did take a period of time to Generate a keypair when i did.
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I'm liking the sound of that as well Shroomeister, but maybe with a few days without them being to post even in the newbie forum after registering. It wouldn't prevent the spam by any means, but it'd make it harder and at the same time force new people to actually read instead of ask questions that've been answered 1000 times. As well as appreciate this isn't something to jump straight into.
As for the captcha idea, it'd help but only slow them slightly, it seems all the posts are manually done anyway as somebody mentioned.
This.
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I honestly don't think tormail or any other service is reliable enough to pull that off, have you noticed how much tormail has been down in the last 2-3 months? I haven't checked mine in months for that very reason, I had to give up after a while because it was too frustrating.
Another idea if this newbie central did ever come to fruition would be to have a message pop up once you signed up about the mtgix (or any other relevant spam\scams at the time), nothing too annoying just something you can close easily. It pains me to even suggest it, but clearly people will continue to fall for this, and any other obviously too good to be true scheme. And judging by the constant questions of mtgix's legitimacy on the forums at the moment it seems not many people read the stickied threads before posting.
Free money?! Shut up and take my money!
Agreed. Nothing limiting. I would not want anything that would potentially limit my customers from finding and speaking with or about me.
No tormail. No specific mail.
Newb sections and some type of constraint to keep them there for a bit. Something just long enough or a pain in the ass enough to stop the Gix fags from cropping up all over the forum.
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I honestly don't think tormail or any other service is reliable enough to pull that off, have you noticed how much tormail has been down in the last 2-3 months? I haven't checked mine in months for that very reason, I had to give up after a while because it was too frustrating.
Another idea if this newbie central did ever come to fruition would be to have a message pop up once you signed up about the mtgix (or any other relevant spam\scams at the time), nothing too annoying just something you can close easily. It pains me to even suggest it, but clearly people will continue to fall for this, and any other obviously too good to be true scheme. And judging by the constant questions of mtgix's legitimacy on the forums at the moment it seems not many people read the stickied threads before posting.
Free money?! Shut up and take my money!
thats just encouraging them and we were all noobs once. before this i thought proxys were how you stayed anonymous online. This is a whole new world compared to 4chan and misc that makes what they do look like childs play (a mtgix DDOS would be great but i dont think anon is SR personal army and unless they started spamming /b, which noone is stupid enough to so, there unlikely to care)
PGP is the best idea. Its vital to our Security and would prove your serious as it is something that looks terribly complicated at first (scare off the kids, thugs,weakminded) and once you get the hang of it is very easy (allows anyone who is serious and with a brain to use it without being kmfkewm or shannnon or one of those security experts). SR is easy to access these days and there is clearweb tutorials (and a facebook page) so why not filter out those who want to be here and those just here because they saw the report on The Project?
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I'm liking the sound of that as well Shroomeister, but maybe with a few days without them being to post even in the newbie forum after registering. It wouldn't prevent the spam by any means, but it'd make it harder and at the same time force new people to actually read instead of ask questions that've been answered 1000 times. As well as appreciate this isn't something to jump straight into.
As for the captcha idea, it'd help but only slow them slightly, it seems all the posts are manually done anyway as somebody mentioned.
This.
mtgix will just make a fuckload of accounts every 7 days then and continue. has anybody complained on here they were scammed by them? I mean if there still posting they must be getting the odd one here or there.
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But its so annoying I see [1] next to my messages and im like OmGzz maybe it been Pine asking to meet up IRL for sex, and its just mt gix ;(
hahaha! Nice one! ;D +1
Both the PGP and the limiting noobs ideas sound good. I too am fed up with this spammer. It's got to the point where he seems to have a personal vendetta against SR. >:(
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But its so annoying I see [1] next to my messages and im like OmGzz maybe it been Pine asking to meet up IRL for sex, and its just mt gix ;(
hahaha! Nice one! ;D +1
Both the PGP and the limiting noobs ideas sound good. I too am fed up with this spammer. It's got to the point where he seems to have a personal vendetta against SR. >:(
I was and still am a noob however at least the PGP test puts another layer of difficulty because this place is all too easy to get too now and we need some sort of deterrent for kids aswell. Could actually deter some bad press and we are only one story away from the government taking us seriously and making an example of this place.
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How about until you get 100 posts, the following restrictions apply:
- You may only mail once every 180 seconds
- You may only post once every 60 seconds
- You are required to complete a CAPTCHA for both posting and mailing
This may not be possible but it's a good deterrent in slowing them down at least. If not, could I suggest something such as if you post the exact same phrase 3 times consecutively it introduces some sort of approval stage where their post will not go public until a mod has approved it. There are ways around this too of course, but I think there is very little we can do to definitively stop them, so making things difficult seems the best option to me.
Also, is there no option to auto-ban if somebody posts an exact message? So if we copy their post and add it to the auto-ban, so if a user posts or mails that exact set of text then they will be banned and a moderator can review each ban before confirming it and if there has been an error, it can be undone then. Again, this isn't a final solution, but will definitely be a pain in the arse for them to have to introduce variables and keep up to date on our methods until the point they think the effort is no longer worth it.
Wish I had the spam buster rank, just to delete the problem on sight kind of power because I agree - this spam is getting on my cyber tits.
probably should do this for everyone except certain established accounts like Pine etc who gets alot of messages due to PGP club and anyone else who is messaged alot
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Well, I'm pretty new here myself, but IRL I've ben around for more than a few decades. I don't understand why some people don't want to read the forums and get as much info as they can before they get into this, but there's a lot of things about people I sometimes don't understand. I don't understand myself sometimes. ;D If some people refuse to read the forums re respoding to MT Gix spam, is it possible to put a sign, or note on the Road itself simply saying "don't respond to pm's regarding purchase of btc at discount prices from Mt Gix" ? It may not stop the spamming itself, but it may help slow down people responding to that spam
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How about until you get 100 posts, the following restrictions apply:
- You may only mail once every 180 seconds
- You may only post once every 60 seconds
- You are required to complete a CAPTCHA for both posting and mailing
This may not be possible but it's a good deterrent in slowing them down at least. If not, could I suggest something such as if you post the exact same phrase 3 times consecutively it introduces some sort of approval stage where their post will not go public until a mod has approved it. There are ways around this too of course, but I think there is very little we can do to definitively stop them, so making things difficult seems the best option to me.
Also, is there no option to auto-ban if somebody posts an exact message? So if we copy their post and add it to the auto-ban, so if a user posts or mails that exact set of text then they will be banned and a moderator can review each ban before confirming it and if there has been an error, it can be undone then. Again, this isn't a final solution, but will definitely be a pain in the arse for them to have to introduce variables and keep up to date on our methods until the point they think the effort is no longer worth it.
Wish I had the spam buster rank, just to delete the problem on sight kind of power because I agree - this spam is getting on my cyber tits.
probably should do this for everyone except certain established accounts like Pine etc who gets alot of messages due to PGP club and anyone else who is messaged alot
That's why I brought up the 100 post boundary. We already use it as a threshold for giving/negating karma points, which I assume is set at 100 to prevent point inflation and is (in theory) a barrier you need to get to in order to earn the right of awarding or deducing points as a privilege. If they really wanted to make accounts and do 100 posts plus implementing my above suggestions, it'd take a long time for them to do anything effective.
Good Idea i wonder if the Admins actually look out for Ideas etc from people on the forums.
feel free to give me some + ;). Would be good to have a 3 point buffer
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smh
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I think the PGP test should definitely be refined and discussed as a way of balancing the recent influx of noobs. However, assuming the short term goal is to make spamming as difficult as possible, it would be a good idea to implement some of the admin controls included in every modern forum package.
If a moderation queue would slow things down too much, you can always just limit newly registered accounts to one new topic or PM every few hours. It won't stop the spam, but it will severely limit his ability to do it quickly without using any additional resources, and whistleblowers, USPS insiders, etc will still be able to post important threads from alt accounts.
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and I very rarely sleep.
Welcome Brother!
Most people cant wait 2 days for their meth let alone just hang around this place for months before purchasing. Most people just cant beleive there eyes and just want tto jump in and test it to see if its real. Which is where mtgix comes in. n00b comes along>needs bitcoins,where to buy?> oh this look good mtgix.com>scammed>concludes whole thing is a scam and takes off too embaressed to tell anyone they got scammed trying to buy drugs on the interwebz. What a silly Idea.
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Who the hell spams a forum that is mostly drug related...FEDS.
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Who the hell spams a forum that is mostly drug related...FEDS.
anyone looking to make a quick buck? nigerians?
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Well at least we are brainstorming on possible solutions. Hope someone tries to figure something out. I just spend the money, and I hope someone puts it to good use.
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Seeing as I use the same forum software on Shroomtastic, how about a workable Idea
You can set permission sets for a given board on the forum so you should be able to create a board where new members can post and not allow them to post anything in the rest of the board tell they hit 10 posts or what ever you set it to.
Then set the permissions on that forum board where everyone who has more than 300 posts can moderate that forum board.
This should allow new users a place to come in and talk as well as create 1000's of mods all of whom can delete the spam without taking up SR staff time. That also means that anyone with more than 300 posts can delete any comment on that board and it could be abused but it sure would get rid of the spam. And if it is at 10 posts, that means that they would have to get 10 posts made that did not get deleted. ;D
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^^Finally, someone who knows SMF!!
+1 for the very specific ideas. I can't imagine what the noob forum would like after a while though. Having so many mods would be dangerous, especially if you can't undo actions like thread/post deletion. Maybe they can find some of the early, helpful members and figure out when they usually browse the forums, then pick a mod for every 2-3 hour time block or something.
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Seeing as I use the same forum software on Shroomtastic, how about a workable Idea
You can set permission sets for a given board on the forum so you should be able to create a board where new members can post and not allow them to post anything in the rest of the board tell they hit 10 posts or what ever you set it to.
Then set the permissions on that forum board where everyone who has more than 300 posts can moderate that forum board.
This should allow new users a place to come in and talk as well as create 1000's of mods all of whom can delete the spam without taking up SR staff time. That also means that anyone with more than 300 posts can delete any comment on that board and it could be abused but it sure would get rid of the spam. And if it is at 10 posts, that means that they would have to get 10 posts made that did not get deleted. ;D
To open to be abused and this place would just turn into a shitfight.
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I agree with the notion that there should be restrictions in place to combat spam. It may not be horrible right now, but as SR grows in popularity, it's inevitable that others are going to try to do the same as MtGix.
I don't agree with the idea that one would need X posts or wait X time before being allowed to create a thread or post outside a specific forum. If a SR newb gets scammed, he/she should have the ability to make a thread and inform others about that vendor. Especially MoneyPak scammers, who need to be combated ASAP, lest they make away with thousands of dollars. There are better ways to lift posting restrictions.
I think tying an SR account [with a purchase?] to a forum account would help. Perhaps with an SR account you can post one thread a day, having one with a purchase lets you post multiple threads.and remove potential forum captcha (mentioned below).
Other ideas to combat advertising spamming:
1) Auto-gag (temp ban) and hide threads whose titles contain a "ban word." MtGix, 79.99, etc. Make these ban-words visible in a sticky so people don't make the mistake of posting, "Guys, is MtGix legit?"
2) Hide threads that have a url in the title. Don't make this knowledge public. If possible, make the thread not hidden for the one that posted it, so he/she has no idea it's been hidden. I'm not sure if it's possible with this forum's software allows for it, though.
3) Implement captcha on the forums. This particular one is doing his posts manually, but in the future couldn't we get hit by some bots?
4) Auto-gag users that post the same thread title or post 3 or more times in a row.
In reality, it is impossible to fully stop spam. If he wants to make a dozen dummy accounts, give 'em each 100 posts, wait a week, tie each one to an SR account with a small purchase, generate a dozen keys, and start posting variations of his advertising as
Selling BTC 10 for 79.98 MtG(I)x.c(o)m remove parentheses
Selling BTC 10 for 79.97 MtG(I)x.c(o)m remove parentheses
there's really nothing stopping him. No amount of restrictions would make it flat out impossible. The only thing we concern ourselves with is what measures we can take to make it too much of a hassle on the spammer without hurting the community.
I've backpedaled and edited this post a bunch of times, so I'm sure I stopped making sense somewhere. I'll check back after work/class/whatever I'm off to.
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Seeing as I use the same forum software on Shroomtastic, how about a workable Idea
You can set permission sets for a given board on the forum so you should be able to create a board where new members can post and not allow them to post anything in the rest of the board tell they hit 10 posts or what ever you set it to.
Then set the permissions on that forum board where everyone who has more than 300 posts can moderate that forum board.
This should allow new users a place to come in and talk as well as create 1000's of mods all of whom can delete the spam without taking up SR staff time. That also means that anyone with more than 300 posts can delete any comment on that board and it could be abused but it sure would get rid of the spam. And if it is at 10 posts, that means that they would have to get 10 posts made that did not get deleted. ;D
To open to be abused and this place would just turn into a shitfight.
I am only suggesting that those above 300 posts be able to mod the new user forum, not the whole board.
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In reality, it is impossible to fully stop spam. If he wants to make a dozen dummy accounts, give 'em each 100 posts, wait a week, tie each one to an SR account with a small purchase, generate a dozen keys, and start posting variations of his advertising as
Selling BTC 10 for 79.98 MtG(I)x.c(o)m remove parentheses
Selling BTC 10 for 79.97 MtG(I)x.c(o)m remove parentheses
there's really nothing stopping him. No amount of restrictions would make it flat out impossible. The only thing we concern ourselves with is what measures we can take to make it too much of a hassle on the spammer without hurting the community.
I've backpedaled and edited this post a bunch of times, so I'm sure I stopped making sense somewhere. I'll check back after work/class/whatever I'm off to.
If there was a good php/mysql person out there they may be able to integrate a bayesian spam filter into the posting function. It could easily catch the above and refuse to allow it to be posted.
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In reality, it is impossible to fully stop spam. If he wants to make a dozen dummy accounts, give 'em each 100 posts, wait a week, tie each one to an SR account with a small purchase, generate a dozen keys, and start posting variations of his advertising...
True. If the spammer's goal is the disruption of SR rather than profit--which has been suggested in the past and supported by some of his actions--than nothing will stop him. A simple solution that exponentially increases the work put into spamming certainly won't hurt though. It has the added benefit of future-proofing the boards from less dedicated spammers.
I think anybody with over 300 posts being able to edit any posts in even the newbie forum would be a bit much james, but I think you're onto something. Surely we could just find a few willing long term members to do some minor moderation of that forum exclusively, keep all the stickied threads up to date with what's most relevant to people joining SR today, in a way they'll actually read and understand.
But I have no idea how the ins and outs of internet forums operate, so I'll leave it to people who do :)
If SMF's permissions allow the admins to create mods that can only delete/move threads and not edit them, that would also help reign in mod abuse on a hypothetical newb forum. You can further build on that by only allowing the newbie section mods to move threads to a hidden recycle bin forum rather than allowing them to outright delete things.
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Lets be real for a minute. If this were to get implemented, there would just be a "chat shit" thread started in the noob section and they would sit in there having a circle jerk for a few hours just to reach the post count. I agree with agorist concept just don't think it will work in this situation. There's a mod online basically at anytime as it is now and the ads only stay up for a short period of time, it's not really that big of a deal.
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^^That's why I originally suggested limiting newly registered accounts to one new topic every few hours. If this really is one guy sitting there manually registering accounts, that one change will more than double his workload without significantly interfering with the forum as it is now. Make the delay long enough for admins to be able to ban the accounts before they can post again, but short enough to still allow legit new users to ask questions or post important information as needed.
Although the spam is annoying, I agree that it's nothing dire and creating an introduction/noob section should be a last resort. Dunno if SMF supports this, but the moderation queue (manual post approval for very new accounts) would be a safer choice as long as we're thinking of adding new mods anyway. As long as someone is always on and there are some basic measures in place to prevent DoS of the queue.
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Creating all these forum rules is basically the equal to creating class warfare IRL. Bunch of baby Reagans running around here.
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LOL we're just trying to prevent a future denial of service condition. Besides, it's fun to come up with ideas that make scammers work harder. Let's put our friend perky/lovestotrip through spammer college. Maybe then he'll graduate to real spam and become the next Sanford Wallace, effectively leaving SR alone hahah
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LOL, Perky...Can I just DOx the guy every time he posts from now on? Would probably make him think about it at least for a fraction of a second the next time he tries to scam.