Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Jack N Hoff on July 17, 2013, 07:43 pm
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I just felt that the buyers should know why some listing prices may be higher lately.
So when i sell a quarter of bud, my listing price, pre commission, is $110, and when the amount goes into my usd escrow ( hedged obviously), it is around $103, which makes sense, because it's my pre-commission price, minus the 4% of so hedging.
However when i sell an ounce, my pre commission price is $360, but i only get $319 into escrow? 4% hedge should be around $15, so i should get $345 in escrow. Now i am using Australian dollars as my fixed price, so i am assuming that must be why i am losing so much, but that works out to nearly 12% hedging fee, which seems outrageous. I guess i should just move to usd dollar fixing, it is just no as convenient for Australian vendors.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Should add that my listing is at $390 bucks on SR, and if i get $320, that means sr is taking a 18% Commission? Or have i just done something stupid? Probably stupid, so if someone could point it out, thanks.
You right same problem here with EURO.
i got a listing that cost 350 euro ex shipping.
i get 338 euro WTF maybe we are drugdealers but the difference between 350eur and 338 eur is a lot !!
I'm glad you brought up this topic as I choose pre-commission pricing as well and it is slightly under what i list.
i would like to understand why.
hi hi
if i'm not mistaken, the wording on that currency update specified that escrow was unaffected from alternate fiat (non-USD) price pegging. escrow remains USD-only.
in other words, perhaps the site is having to go from AUD/EUR/etc first into USD and then put the hedge on..... so you'd be losing out on the exchange rate from one fiat to USD? in order for the site to perform a hedge, they have to take the other side of the trade on some exchange somewhere. unless they have a ton of fiat accounts loaded with cash (one for each currency) they would be hard pressed to maintain solvency for all possible hedging scenarios. therefore my guess is your sale amount goes first thru a forex market to turn it from one fiat to USD, then that USD can be sold at market on a BTC/USD exchange. however, i could be completely wrong. really need a mod to chime in.
does this happen with unhedged orders too? my hypothesis would be incorrect if that were the case. being in USA, my pricing is USD and i use escrow hedge, so my escrow in $USD that is listed on the account page has always shown a few bucks less than my pre-commission price. i'm expecting that to be the hedge fees....
xoxo
-mb
So when i sell a quarter of bud, my listing price, pre commission, is $110, and when the amount goes into my usd escrow ( hedged obviously), it is around $103, which makes sense, because it's my pre-commission price, minus the 4% of so hedging.
However when i sell an ounce, my pre commission price is $360, but i only get $319 into escrow? 4% hedge should be around $15, so i should get $345 in escrow. Now i am using Australian dollars as my fixed price, so i am assuming that must be why i am losing so much, but that works out to nearly 12% hedging fee, which seems outrageous. I guess i should just move to usd dollar fixing, it is just no as convenient for Australian vendors.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
I have the same problem!
I constantly get less than I should be doing.
They should give a report on the total product price, postage price, hedging fee and silk road fees. In BTC and $$$.
look at this
These are the same item , same price whats wrong here
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $36.86
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $37.95
I get the same problem. SOmething that costs $100 + $4 postage will get somewhere between $93 and $96
look at this
These are the same item , same price whats wrong here
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $36.86
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $37.95
I get the same problem. SOmething that costs $100 + $4 postage will get somewhere between $93 and $96
fucking strange cause its not only with this order . its with every order!!
first i thought its maybe that all prices where in EURO but that isnt the problem cause i changed my settings to USD and same problem.
iam losing money on this! . cause if you got 10 orders that cost 35 usd and with every order there is 1+ usd gone . then 10+usd is gone in thin air.
i dont understand i hope the staff of SR can explain . cause if this problem will go further then i need to raise the price
look at this
These are the same item , same price whats wrong here
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $36.86
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $37.95
I get the same problem. SOmething that costs $100 + $4 postage will get somewhere between $93 and $96
fucking strange cause its not only with this order . its with every order!!
first i thought its maybe that all prices where in EURO but that isnt the problem cause i changed my settings to USD and same problem.
iam losing money on this! . cause if you got 10 orders that cost 35 usd and with every order there is 1+ usd gone . then 10+usd is gone in thin air.
i dont understand i hope the staff of SR can explain . cause if this problem will go further then i need to raise the price
I agree. The price should be more exact. I have my items at a price where I know how much I pay in fees. If I'm paying a whole lot more in fees, I think we should know.
It's only fair... Unless it has something to do with BTC price fluctuations... But even then it should be pegged to the dollar value when we get money finalised.
What is happening if you are selling post-commission like me, then?
What is happening if you are selling post-commission like me, then?
I sell post-commission too. I just work out what the fees I pay are and subtract it from the total cost, but the fees are higher than what they should be.
Same Problem.....I just had to raise prices.......I have lost sales from those increases.....volume has dropped the last few days. :-\
Dread Pirate Roberts did say that SR reserves the right to change the fee take in any way without prior notification. This could be it.
Now that I think about the the commission is a bit like a consumption tax, and the missing money could be like an income tax on vendors.
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Everything I buy is priced considerably higher. It sucks. Some of my vendors have gone to Atlantis but I'm still on the edge about if I want to use their service. I hope this isn't a trend otherwise I might jump ship.
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It appears that with the new fees and shipping and hedging customers of mine are getting taxed on average 12-20% on orders. My only option is to lower my prices. The commission on lower priced orders SUCKS.
Also, I feel like Gil from the Simpsons. Slow business week. I miss being busy.
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Time for vendor/buyer protest
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Jack, as I mentioned in the Vendor Roundtable thread, (and as astor mentions http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=182525.msg1325984#msg1325984)
the changing commission on the same item is caused by the rise in BTC/USD exchange rate. The new formula causes the commission to float on items pegged to fiat.
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I just had a finalized order and I got paid exactly what I was supposed to to the cent after my math but the buyers are the ones getting the squeeze. I mean they initially have to pay fees just to even get bitcoins, before they pay for commission, hedging and shipping.
Glad I don't buy coins anymore.
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STRIKE*****STRIKE******STIRKE
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Not sure what the purpose is to use price in BTC in the formula as opposed to price in USD. Maybe DPR is using the Quickbooks Bitcoin Edition®?
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It appears that some mathematics are incorrect. Hopefully DPR will fix them hastily.
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nothing has changed about the way hedging is done. You are being obnoxious Jack.
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Jack, as I mentioned in the Vendor Roundtable thread, (and as astor mentions http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=182525.msg1325984#msg1325984)
the changing commission on the same item is caused by the rise in BTC/USD exchange rate. The new formula causes the commission to float on items pegged to fiat.
That's a part of it. When DPR published that formula, a bitcoin was worth $77. At that rate, a $300 item would have a commission of 7.5% or $22.50. Now that a bitcoin is worth $97, a $300 item has a commission of 8.0% or $24.00. That's a difference of $2.50. I don't know if that explains all of the difference that people are seeing.
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As far as I know it's pinned to the bitcoin, but that's why the commission changes for items pinned to the dollar.
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The commission is based on bitcoins. If you price your items in bitcoins, the commission won't change.
But let's say you have an item priced at $100. Right now it's worth about 1 bitcoin. If the USD/BTC exchange rate goes up to $200, then that item will cost 0.5 bitcoins, so obviously the commission rate will be different.
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nothing has changed about the way hedging is done. You are being obnoxious Jack.
Ha, get told jacky boy, no I think you upset him calling him robbie lol. hope your ok Jack.
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I don't have a lot of orders to compare anything to but I don't see anything different about the hedging.
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nothing has changed about the way hedging is done. You are being obnoxious Jack.
I expose my escrow but I certainty saw all of the vendors in the roundtable complaining and saying that they are raising their prices to make up for it. I didn't want buyers to feel like vendors are getting greedier or something.
Sorry Rob. Just let me know if you want me to delete this thread.
I love you :-*
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nothing has changed about the way hedging is done. You are being obnoxious Jack.
I expose my escrow but I certainty saw all of the vendors in the roundtable complaining and saying that they are raising their prices to make up for it. I didn't want buyers to feel like vendors are getting greedier or something.
Sorry Rob. Just let me know if you want me to delete this thread.
I love you :-*
Stop being so obnoxious Jack. Trying to inform the people and whatnot. No one here wants you to keep us in the loop of potential issues that may affect vendors pricing! Jesus, grow up.
;)
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nothing has changed about the way hedging is done. You are being obnoxious Jack.
I expose my escrow but I certainty saw all of the vendors in the roundtable complaining and saying that they are raising their prices to make up for it. I didn't want buyers to feel like vendors are getting greedier or something.
Sorry Rob. Just let me know if you want me to delete this thread.
I love you :-*
Stop being so obnoxious Jack. Trying to inform the people and whatnot. No one here wants you to keep us in the loop of potential issues that may affect vendors pricing! Jesus, grow up.
;)
Sorry. :( Next time I wont turn on the lights. I'll just leave everyone in the dark.
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I think the weirdness you're seeing may be related to the new commission formula. As astor pointed out here: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=182525.msg1325984#msg1325984 with the new formula the commission will actually change as the BTC/USD exchange rate changes. With a 25% rise in BTC/USD over the past 10 days or so, this explains same items being charged different commissions at different time.
I felt like I noticed some discrepancies before the new commission pricing too but I chalked it up to hedging my escrow. I was losing money on hedging left and right anyways so I did away with it. Just pay me the exact BTC that the customer pays minus Silk Road fees and I'm happy.
Something that would really help us vendors is a chart of the bitcoin value on Silk Road like the charts they have for the exchanges so that these vendors claiming to have problems are able to look at the price of BTC at the time of the sale. I don't hedge but I would really enjoy having such a chart myself and I am sure other vendors and buyers would do. A member with the skills could create such a chart. A real time chart would be great. Hint hint SelfSovereignty, StExo, Astor or any other member. ;) Think about it.... :)
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Everything I buy is priced considerably higher. It sucks. Some of my vendors have gone to Atlantis but I'm still on the edge about if I want to use their service. I hope this isn't a trend otherwise I might jump ship.
NOT promoting Atlantis but I have had 2 successful transactions using a SR vendor Dreamatorium. I trusted him here so I used him there.
You're not promoting Atlantis... but look at that last sentence. It sounds like a fucking marketing slogan.
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Another confounding factor is that now SR can display in many currencies, yet still uses USD internally. If you're a vendor using AUD, the floating AUD/USD exchange rate will further push your return from expected return.
(clearnet) AUD/USD bounces around 5% over the past month...
http://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip?f=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e2achvpaqi0
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I just felt that the buyers should know why some listing prices may be higher lately.
So when i sell a quarter of bud, my listing price, pre commission, is $110, and when the amount goes into my usd escrow ( hedged obviously), it is around $103, which makes sense, because it's my pre-commission price, minus the 4% of so hedging.
However when i sell an ounce, my pre commission price is $360, but i only get $319 into escrow? 4% hedge should be around $15, so i should get $345 in escrow. Now i am using Australian dollars as my fixed price, so i am assuming that must be why i am losing so much, but that works out to nearly 12% hedging fee, which seems outrageous. I guess i should just move to usd dollar fixing, it is just no as convenient for Australian vendors.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Should add that my listing is at $390 bucks on SR, and if i get $320, that means sr is taking a 18% Commission? Or have i just done something stupid? Probably stupid, so if someone could point it out, thanks.
You right same problem here with EURO.
i got a listing that cost 350 euro ex shipping.
i get 338 euro WTF maybe we are drugdealers but the difference between 350eur and 338 eur is a lot !!
I'm glad you brought up this topic as I choose pre-commission pricing as well and it is slightly under what i list.
i would like to understand why.
hi hi
if i'm not mistaken, the wording on that currency update specified that escrow was unaffected from alternate fiat (non-USD) price pegging. escrow remains USD-only.
in other words, perhaps the site is having to go from AUD/EUR/etc first into USD and then put the hedge on..... so you'd be losing out on the exchange rate from one fiat to USD? in order for the site to perform a hedge, they have to take the other side of the trade on some exchange somewhere. unless they have a ton of fiat accounts loaded with cash (one for each currency) they would be hard pressed to maintain solvency for all possible hedging scenarios. therefore my guess is your sale amount goes first thru a forex market to turn it from one fiat to USD, then that USD can be sold at market on a BTC/USD exchange. however, i could be completely wrong. really need a mod to chime in.
does this happen with unhedged orders too? my hypothesis would be incorrect if that were the case. being in USA, my pricing is USD and i use escrow hedge, so my escrow in $USD that is listed on the account page has always shown a few bucks less than my pre-commission price. i'm expecting that to be the hedge fees....
xoxo
-mb
So when i sell a quarter of bud, my listing price, pre commission, is $110, and when the amount goes into my usd escrow ( hedged obviously), it is around $103, which makes sense, because it's my pre-commission price, minus the 4% of so hedging.
However when i sell an ounce, my pre commission price is $360, but i only get $319 into escrow? 4% hedge should be around $15, so i should get $345 in escrow. Now i am using Australian dollars as my fixed price, so i am assuming that must be why i am losing so much, but that works out to nearly 12% hedging fee, which seems outrageous. I guess i should just move to usd dollar fixing, it is just no as convenient for Australian vendors.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
I have the same problem!
I constantly get less than I should be doing.
They should give a report on the total product price, postage price, hedging fee and silk road fees. In BTC and $$$.
look at this
These are the same item , same price whats wrong here
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $36.86
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $37.95
I get the same problem. SOmething that costs $100 + $4 postage will get somewhere between $93 and $96
look at this
These are the same item , same price whats wrong here
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $36.86
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $37.95
I get the same problem. SOmething that costs $100 + $4 postage will get somewhere between $93 and $96
fucking strange cause its not only with this order . its with every order!!
first i thought its maybe that all prices where in EURO but that isnt the problem cause i changed my settings to USD and same problem.
iam losing money on this! . cause if you got 10 orders that cost 35 usd and with every order there is 1+ usd gone . then 10+usd is gone in thin air.
i dont understand i hope the staff of SR can explain . cause if this problem will go further then i need to raise the price
look at this
These are the same item , same price whats wrong here
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $36.86
quantity: 1
shipping: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
postage: $1.27
total price: $37.95
I get the same problem. SOmething that costs $100 + $4 postage will get somewhere between $93 and $96
fucking strange cause its not only with this order . its with every order!!
first i thought its maybe that all prices where in EURO but that isnt the problem cause i changed my settings to USD and same problem.
iam losing money on this! . cause if you got 10 orders that cost 35 usd and with every order there is 1+ usd gone . then 10+usd is gone in thin air.
i dont understand i hope the staff of SR can explain . cause if this problem will go further then i need to raise the price
I agree. The price should be more exact. I have my items at a price where I know how much I pay in fees. If I'm paying a whole lot more in fees, I think we should know.
It's only fair... Unless it has something to do with BTC price fluctuations... But even then it should be pegged to the dollar value when we get money finalised.
What is happening if you are selling post-commission like me, then?
What is happening if you are selling post-commission like me, then?
I sell post-commission too. I just work out what the fees I pay are and subtract it from the total cost, but the fees are higher than what they should be.
Same Problem.....I just had to raise prices.......I have lost sales from those increases.....volume has dropped the last few days. :-\
Dread Pirate Roberts did say that SR reserves the right to change the fee take in any way without prior notification. This could be it.
Now that I think about the the commission is a bit like a consumption tax, and the missing money could be like an income tax on vendors.
+1 for starting the thread
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I am so confused. So if I am not hedging then the change in bitcoin value won't change the commission?
I have no idea what people mean by floating commission fee.
I am set to no-hedge pre-commission pricing, I just hope this results in a simple predictable amount of money coming in.
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Everything is fucked.
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I am so confused. So if I am not hedging then the change in bitcoin value won't change the commission?
I have no idea what people mean by floating commission fee.
I am set to no-hedge pre-commission pricing, I just hope this results in a simple predictable amount of money coming in.
With your setup, you don't have to worry about commission costs are far as factoring in your bottom line, net profit.
For instance, look at your listed orders page. Note the prices you see. That was the price you set.
Now click on any one of those listings (not the edit link, the listing link on the listed items page). That is the price + SR Fee the buyer sees.
Since the SR fee algorithm is based on BTC, the fee will move in relation to BTC. So buyers will see your listing prices rise or fall with BTC's value since the fee is calculated based on it. DPR did this in order to have a common denominator (BTC) for all the different currencies that can now be displayed.
Vendors who are on post commission prices will have to basically guess what the commission will be. The old method of price tier based commission fee is no longer valid. But that old method is still a good ballpark estimate for orders priced about $700 and under. Their estimate will be off a few dollars give or take depending on where BTC is. For listings above $700, it pays to simply switch to pre-commission pricing (overall it pays to switch anyway). Unless you use the algorithm that DPR provided and convert your listing currency into BTC and factor from there. An extra step that's not worth the trouble when you can simply switch to pre-commission pricing, make a dummy listing to test what the customer will see price wise, and adjust accordingly.
The impact that BTC move has on the price of a listing that is under $700 is small. A 20% rise in BTC does NOT translate into a 20% rise in listing price since commission only makes up at most ~9.5% to <4% of the listings price, pre or post commission pricing.
Some vendors ARE raising their prices because they don't understand the new fee system. Using e to the BTC - minus something or the other. LOL. (Actually, it's.... 6.7 x e^(-p/6) + 4 where P=price of listing in BTC).
But Some vendors are also raising prices to compensate for lost revenue from the prior drop in BTC that occurred late last month, early this month. And if you had late finalizers or auto-finalizers, then you really have to make up for it.
And no, Atlantis isn't that much cheaper. They deceptively list their commission schedule as if it's not cumulative. But it is. You are NOT charged 1% for an order over $1000. You are charged 1% for the *amount* OVER $1000 + the commission of all the other tiers below $1000. Just like it was on SR before.
Now on SR, you are charged a fee based on a sliding scale system. There are no tiers. As listing price increases, the commission fee decreases. It starts at around 9.5% or so to somewhere under 4% the higher you go above $1000. The curve of the commission fee also decelerates fairly rapidly from the low end of price listings ($25) to the mid range of price listings ($500-$700) before slowly decreasing with each increase in price making it parabolic in nature. (If you picture it as a chart where commission as a % is the Y axis and increasing price is the X axis, the curve will start high on the left side of the chart dropping fairly sharply by the $500 point then slowly dropping from then on as it reaches a little less then 4% on the right side of the chart near the $3000+ point. )
It's as fair a system as the old system (other than that the over $1000 orders are now charged about 4% instead of a cumulative net of about 2.5% before). In fact, it's fairer since its basis is BTC instead of USD like the old system was. So non-US sellers are on a level playing field as far as commissions go. Customs is another matter.
So that's the real deal, Holyfield of if. ;)
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I am so confused. So if I am not hedging then the change in bitcoin value won't change the commission?
I have no idea what people mean by floating commission fee.
I am set to no-hedge pre-commission pricing, I just hope this results in a simple predictable amount of money coming in.
If you want a predictable payment in USD, use escrow hedging, peg to USD, and use pre-commission pricing. If you peg to another currency, the value of your payment out of escrow will differ by the change in exchange rate between your peg currency and USD. If you don't hedge, your payment will differ by the change in exchange rate between USD and BTC.
make sense?
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I know this has been happening but when I checked my two favorite vendors both had LOWER prices than a month ago???
just my observation, seemed strange as I expected and was ok with paying a bit more. anyway...
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I think I prefer an understandable fee structure. Hard to tell for sure, since I don't understand it, I can't tell if the current one is good or not. Anyway, maybe on our listings page (or edit listing pages) we could have a number listed that tells what the current fee on that item is? Or an actual live $/Btc amount we would receive on a sale.
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I think I prefer an understandable fee structure. Hard to tell for sure, since I don't understand it, I can't tell if the current one is good or not. Anyway, maybe on our listings page (or edit listing pages) we could have a number listed that tells what the current fee on that item is? Or an actual live $/Btc amount we would receive on a sale.
This!!!
I can't understand all this shit I'm just on the sidelines waiting for it to resolve...
Currently on Jacks team! Who wants higher fees? Not this guy!
Also, Jack the new user pic is epic.
Cyborg Clinton!
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Do both buyers and sellers see the same price on the listing whether we choose either post- or pre- commissioning?
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I like lamp
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Do both buyers and sellers see the same price on the listing whether we choose either post- or pre- commissioning?
Yes if we click our own vendor page we see exactly what any buyer would see.
But when we set prices in the settings menu, we can see t he post- or pre-commission pricing.
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hi hi
for what it's worth, i use pre-commission pricing. as a point of reference, yesterday, when the value of BTC/USD was just hovering under 100, my listings cost almost exactly $1 USD more than they currently do now after that 10k BTC selloff last night. i changed nothing.
as mentioned before this is because commission is now floating with the exchange rate of BTC/USD.
buyers should expect to see higher prices as BTC rises, and lower prices as it falls. vendors using POST commission pricing should expect less profits the more valuable a BTC is, and more profits the cheaper it is.
my vendor settings are all on the "recommended" way - hedge escrow, peg to USD, pre commission. and also as mentioned before vendor pays approx 4% fee for hedging.
hope that clears things up a bit. if i'm wrong, mods please correct me!!
xoxo
-mb
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Long story short: Basic economic calculation is impossible in this system.
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I am so confused. So if I am not hedging then the change in bitcoin value won't change the commission?
I have no idea what people mean by floating commission fee.
I am set to no-hedge pre-commission pricing, I just hope this results in a simple predictable amount of money coming in.
If you want a predictable payment in USD, use escrow hedging, peg to USD, and use pre-commission pricing. If you peg to another currency, the value of your payment out of escrow will differ by the change in exchange rate between your peg currency and USD. If you don't hedge, your payment will differ by the change in exchange rate between USD and BTC.
make sense?
Thanks. I don't want hedging, we do our own hedging. We just need to know how much to hedge when we make a sale. Our hedging got out of sync with the recent change because we were hedging the wrong amount.
I still don't understand why a percent based fee needs to float based on exchange changes. X% of the whole is going to automatically adjust regardless of what unit you measure it in. With hedging I can see the issue, but if hedging is off then shouldn't $Y result in X% and that be the end of the complexity? Like if bitcoins go down 20% then 5% of the whole in any currency is still going to be 5%.
I think the combination of lots of people making guesses and the lack of clear info on what the system is is resulting in the confusion. I know from reading that I am not the only one who does not understand this system.
I would love to be able to understand the fee structure enough to write a calculator myself. In fact, this is what our hedging software used to do prior to the change. If I cannot deterministically predict my fees I will have to screen scrape every transaction after the fact to get the data.
Since I have no listings up right now I can't really test anything, so I am just going with what other people are saying. What other people are saying is inconsistant and vague.
I am currently under the impression that if I have hedging off and I set my pre-commission pricing to $600 then I will get the amount of bitcoins that was worth $600 at the time of the sale. If this holds true then I can manage fine with only a few changes to my workflow.
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i sell drugs. you buy. thats all i need to know i dont really care for all this anyways ::)
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Subbing.
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I am so confused. So if I am not hedging then the change in bitcoin value won't change the commission?
I have no idea what people mean by floating commission fee.
I am set to no-hedge pre-commission pricing, I just hope this results in a simple predictable amount of money coming in.
If you want a predictable payment in USD, use escrow hedging, peg to USD, and use pre-commission pricing. If you peg to another currency, the value of your payment out of escrow will differ by the change in exchange rate between your peg currency and USD. If you don't hedge, your payment will differ by the change in exchange rate between USD and BTC.
make sense?
Thanks. I don't want hedging, we do our own hedging. We just need to know how much to hedge when we make a sale. Our hedging got out of sync with the recent change because we were hedging the wrong amount.
I still don't understand why a percent based fee needs to float based on exchange changes. X% of the whole is going to automatically adjust regardless of what unit you measure it in. With hedging I can see the issue, but if hedging is off then shouldn't $Y result in X% and that be the end of the complexity? Like if bitcoins go down 20% then 5% of the whole in any currency is still going to be 5%.
I think the combination of lots of people making guesses and the lack of clear info on what the system is is resulting in the confusion. I know from reading that I am not the only one who does not understand this system.
I would love to be able to understand the fee structure enough to write a calculator myself. In fact, this is what our hedging software used to do prior to the change. If I cannot deterministically predict my fees I will have to screen scrape every transaction after the fact to get the data.
Since I have no listings up right now I can't really test anything, so I am just going with what other people are saying. What other people are saying is inconsistant and vague.
I am currently under the impression that if I have hedging off and I set my pre-commission pricing to $600 then I will get the amount of bitcoins that was worth $600 at the time of the sale. If this holds true then I can manage fine with only a few changes to my workflow.
Missbliss has the right idea.
Your last sentence is correct. If you're unhedged and set your pre-commission listing price to $600, then that is what you'll get in BTC (its equivalent value at time of finalization). You have nothing else to consider other than what your customers will see as a price which would be $600 + SR commission fee. Simple as pie. American Pie. Which reminds me. One time, at band camp...
The confused are those who set post commission pricing because they have to figure out what they will get from any sale. As mentioned, the new commission structure is a sliding scale that uses BTC instead of USD.
Why is BTC used? Because it is the common denominator of every currency pair used on SR. Whether it be USD/BTC, GBP/BTC, EUR/BTC, AUD/BTC. etc.
When it was a tiered system based on USD, those trading outside the US would have to convert USD/BTC then BTC/(their home currency) or their home currency/USD to USD/BTC to figure out the fee.
Even though SR is still predominately comprised of US vendors, the non-US vendor base has been growing steadily. At least enough to justify the change to BTC for the fee's basis.
As I said before, the change to ~4% for >$1000 is no biggie. Most sales are <$500 on SR. And bulk buyers (who predominately buy to resell) simply amortize the small increased cost or raise prices by a few cents to a dollar per unit.
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i wouldnt want to piss off DPR personally. Ide have to sleep with the lights on, just waiting for a bunch of ninjas with skimasks kicking in the door with samouri swords n shiiiat.
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i wouldnt want to piss off DPR personally. Ide have to sleep with the lights on, just waiting for a bunch of ninjas with skimasks kicking in the door with samouri swords n shiiiat.
I kind of pictured it as a bunch of ninjas too, except they would be wearing Guy Fawkes masks. Weird right?
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I still don't understand why a percent based fee needs to float based on exchange changes. X% of the whole is going to automatically adjust regardless of what unit you measure it in. With hedging I can see the issue, but if hedging is off then shouldn't $Y result in X% and that be the end of the complexity? Like if bitcoins go down 20% then 5% of the whole in any currency is still going to be 5%.
The percent commission changes based on the price of the sale. Higher priced items are charged a lower percent. So, as the exchange rate changes, the bitcoin price of items not pegged to bitcoin changes, and so therefore the commission on them changes. It's inescapable unless we created a different commission schedule for every currency. Instead we just use one and base it on bitcoins.
I am currently under the impression that if I have hedging off and I set my pre-commission pricing to $600 then I will get the amount of bitcoins that was worth $600 at the time of the sale. If this holds true then I can manage fine with only a few changes to my workflow.
This is correct.
Also, if you want to make sure you always get the same dollar value expected for your orders, use pre-commission pricing, escrow hedging, and peg to the US dollar.
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Or make the commission (both percent and bitcoin / fiat value) visible right in the interface. ie, rather than showing just the final price, show a break down to the vendor.
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Or make the commission (both percent and bitcoin / fiat value) visible right in the interface. ie, rather than showing just the final price, show a break down to the vendor.
That would probably take a bit of coding, but I like the idea.
In the interim, we've happily switched to pre-commission pricing. The only guess work is where BTC might be heading between the time a patron places an order and when they might finalize. We thought of hedging, but there have been enough times when we've made a bit more thanks to a rise in BTC to justify not hedging. Plus, during the last BTC crash, hedging didn't seem to protect vendors as well as one might have hoped.
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Do both buyers and sellers see the same price on the listing whether we choose either post- or pre- commissioning?
Yes if we click our own vendor page we see exactly what any buyer would see.
But when we set prices in the settings menu, we can see t he post- or pre-commission pricing.
Cheers!
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can we please stay on the topic of ninjas roping in from jacknhoffs rooftop slicing his head off for pissing off DPR. all this math shit is too confusing, i am pretty good at reading and writing, math sucks. so ya just shut up and pay more
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can we please stay on the topic of ninjas roping in from jacknhoffs rooftop slicing his head off for pissing off DPR. all this math shit is too confusing, i am pretty good at reading and writing, math sucks. so ya just shut up and pay more
https://xkcd.com/225/ <-- clearnet punchline!
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can we please stay on the topic of ninjas roping in from jacknhoffs rooftop slicing his head off for pissing off DPR. all this math shit is too confusing, i am pretty good at reading and writing, math sucks. so ya just shut up and pay more
https://xkcd.com/225/ <-- clearnet punchline!
haha how long did it take you to find that one ?? :P
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thought it was molly freaks ? ;D