Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: P2P on June 28, 2013, 07:28 pm
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I actually was going to post this several weeks ago, but I suppose it slipped my mind. I'm one of those individuals (maybe like yourself) that has several ideas running through my mind throughout the day, but I cannot put them into practice at the time I think of them. Therefore, I am bound to forget the original idea I had as new information enters my short term memory throughout the day. However, I remembered this suddenly today, as I was typing up a response to that thread on the first (ever?) bitcoin seizure.
I am wondering what you all think about the culture that surrounds the black market these days. That is, the drug culture. I do not mean to lump everyone (and I would be doing it to myself, anyway) into one category; obviously, there are probably hundreds of different, unique cultures that cross with the drug culture. However, it is a common culture that we all share in to some degree, and I am interested to hear the thoughts of the people on how they feel about this culture. Basically, what is there to like, and what is there to dislike?
I myself have a very limited role in this culture. I do not indulge in drug use very often, if at all. I think the last time I smoked marijuana must have been years ago, and I drink in a very limited manner (months between drinks). I have never touched anything else besides psychedelics when I was much younger. And even as far as whom I prefer to associate with, I do not prefer individuals that are heavy users of any sort. I believe it clouds judgment, and makes men weak/susceptible to attack (by whomever, LE, general enemies, what have you). Also, in general, I do not like these type of people, as they usually have the same attitude, are not self-efficient (especially in a man this makes me physically ill), are weak both physically and mentally, do not treat others well, and are sort of in their own little world that does not coincide with others.
All this is extremely judgmental on my part, to be sure. But I am not a believer that any human does not judge. We judge everything we perceive, especially morally, as that is how we guide ourselves through our existence (and justify our existence).
But there are also portions that I find interesting, and exciting. Taking part in something that most never will, or are too afraid to, is certainly an excellent validator of self-worth, i.e. it makes one feel alive. I also am interested by the pure form of nihilism that surrounds most of the drug culture (this is not present in the marijuana or psychedelic subsections, though, for the most part), as if it is sort of just one big free-for all. An excellent example of human nature in an environment that has no god, no rules, no morality. Every man for himself. It is an environment in which human beings can act out their most disgusting desires, and then reprimand themselves for it the next day. In addition, as far as the culture of distribution of these substances, it is a strong form of income, and it can be a very strong validation of one's existence - becoming a provider, making more than the average individual, and the fact that 99.999% of people are too afraid and/or incompetent to take up such a career and be highly successful at it. It certainly can make one feel one-in-a-million, quite literally. And objectively there is some truth to that.
But enough of my rambling. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this thing of ours that we participate in. How do you feel about it?
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Those are big questions, and I'm only a youngin' here, but I'll offer this much: we have the togetherness of a besieged clan. Someone else was talking about the friendliness of everyone here and a vendor piped up to say that it isn't that some people here wouldn't resort to violence and other unpleasantness in the flesh, but there's no need for it here. We are incorporeal, and hunted. Nothing to gain from infighting, and everything to lose.
I came from a background of low-level crime, and we played at being badasses (holy shit I can talk about this). This does feel like a very thin slice of the same thing, at some remove. I get to play criminal again (but have to remind myself it's not play - LE doesn't give a fuck about harm reduction). So I get the excitement aspect. From the products. From the anonymity. From participating in things (SR, even bitcoin) that get talked about and are little understood by the mainstream.
I am thankful that I have decent paid work, though, because it only recently occurred to me how much I could be reselling SR product for - and I don't want to deal with that temptation.
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black market culture is shaky. i know a lot of shady individuals, fiends, backstabbers, failures and losers. looking back i could even classify myself in a few of those categories at one or two short periods in life.
i prefer being associated with those who consider drugs a tool used in your progression as a human being, and utilize them as such. i have little patience for druggies trying to figure their life out. grown men still suckling from mommy's titty = pathetic. The fest and community part of our black market drug culture is progressive; while your neighborhood meth spot promote repression.
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I actually was going to post this several weeks ago, but I suppose it slipped my mind. I'm one of those individuals (maybe like yourself) that has several ideas running through my mind throughout the day, but I cannot put them into practice at the time I think of them. Therefore, I am bound to forget the original idea I had as new information enters my short term memory throughout the day. However, I remembered this suddenly today, as I was typing up a response to that thread on the first (ever?) bitcoin seizure.
I am wondering what you all think about the culture that surrounds the black market these days. That is, the drug culture. I do not mean to lump everyone (and I would be doing it to myself, anyway) into one category; obviously, there are probably hundreds of different, unique cultures that cross with the drug culture. However, it is a common culture that we all share in to some degree, and I am interested to hear the thoughts of the people on how they feel about this culture. Basically, what is there to like, and what is there to dislike?
I myself have a very limited role in this culture. I do not indulge in drug use very often, if at all. I think the last time I smoked marijuana must have been years ago, and I drink in a very limited manner (months between drinks). I have never touched anything else besides psychedelics when I was much younger. And even as far as whom I prefer to associate with, I do not prefer individuals that are heavy users of any sort. I believe it clouds judgment, and makes men weak/susceptible to attack (by whomever, LE, general enemies, what have you). Also, in general, I do not like these type of people, as they usually have the same attitude, are not self-efficient (especially in a man this makes me physically ill), are weak both physically and mentally, do not treat others well, and are sort of in their own little world that does not coincide with others.
All this is extremely judgmental on my part, to be sure. But I am not a believer that any human does not judge. We judge everything we perceive, especially morally, as that is how we guide ourselves through our existence (and justify our existence).
But there are also portions that I find interesting, and exciting. Taking part in something that most never will, or are too afraid to, is certainly an excellent validator of self-worth, i.e. it makes one feel alive. I also am interested by the pure form of nihilism that surrounds most of the drug culture (this is not present in the marijuana or psychedelic subsections, though, for the most part), as if it is sort of just one big free-for all. An excellent example of human nature in an environment that has no god, no rules, no morality. Every man for himself. It is an environment in which human beings can act out their most disgusting desires, and then reprimand themselves for it the next day. In addition, as far as the culture of distribution of these substances, it is a strong form of income, and it can be a very strong validation of one's existence - becoming a provider, making more than the average individual, and the fact that 99.999% of people are too afraid and/or incompetent to take up such a career and be highly successful at it. It certainly can make one feel one-in-a-million, quite literally. And objectively there is some truth to that.
But enough of my rambling. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this thing of ours that we participate in. How do you feel about it?
I think your perspective is logical and considered. I don't even really object to much of it, which may be surprising to some considering I'm a daily user of substances and have a couple thousand posts... I do think your view of the culture is skewed a bit, though. Where you see a lack of morality and principle, I see only an absolute dedication to freedom of choice. It's my feeling that exercising force in order to interfere with another's choices is virtually never justifiable. Not on any level or at any time, really; though stopping an infant from crawling off a cliff is, I admit, pretty justifiable... but putting such obvious circumstances aside, my statement stands :)
I do not believe in God and I do not believe that anyone anywhere has the right to tell me how to spend my time or how to treat my flesh. I believe we should all be free to do whatever we wish whenever we wish it, so long as our actions do not hinder another's right to do the same. The details get messy, of course, but this isn't a philosophical journal fortunately.
So I ask you: what about allowing someone to do what feels good is so immoral and so weak? Why do you see trading a little time or a little health or a little psychological coherence in order to gain pleasure as immoral and mildly reprehensible behavior? Is that not what you yourself do every time you sit down and watch a television program, or have an extra slice of cake, or masturbate, or do virtually anything other than work tirelessly to better the lot of humanity as a whole?
The outcomes are the same: something "valuable" is traded for pleasure, and as a result that "valuable" thing is lost. All that really differs is the price and the benefit received upon paying that price -- drugs carry the added price of health, social standing, legal troubles, and other various possible repercussions. Watching television or the like may damage one's health less (depends on the circumstances though I suppose), but it's the same trade. Think of all the good you could have done during that 2 hour action flick. Think of all the starving, suffering, dying people you could have helped or even saved. But instead you traded their lives for your pleasure and comfort. It's sad and almost reprehensible, but we all do it every day without a second thought.
What I'm really getting at here is that while your judgments are well considered -- and I fully agree with you about the necessity of judgment with respect to the human psyche, by the way -- I feel that you've missed some of the variables that have gone into your conclusion. Your judgment of drug culture is just as based on personal taste as it is logic.
Honestly, I really don't understand why it's so difficult for most people to see that their "morality" is little more than personal taste and subjective affect. It's what all morality comes down to: it makes you feel bad to hurt people (hopefully, anyway). It sickens you when someone does something you find disgusting. Add all of those up and you get a person living a "moral life." I also feel that you've over generalized; even more than you think you have, I mean. For example, I consider myself an extremely moral and compassionate man. Much more so than most, in fact. I also use drugs daily and consider my drug of choice a surprisingly large piece of who I really am.
I guess you could sort of sum up half of this post by pointing out that not everyone is a part of the drug culture because of a lack of morality. Some of us just look at "your" (used generally) morality, see how your personal tastes and biases are attempting to force themselves onto us, and have nothing in response to say except, "you're wrong -- fuck off." :P
Please note the tongue-out smiley indicating my facetious intent -- I don't really mean to tell you to fuck off, obviously, hah...