Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: ronswanson77 on June 26, 2013, 07:59 pm
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Is the new Bitinstant safe to use? This has probably been discussed elsewhere but I couldn't find it anywhere with the searches I made.
Any coins I buy I always transfer through a couple anonymous tor-accessed only accounts and then I also transfer them through Bitcoin fog. Is this enough to make the coins 'clean' when I use them on SR? I don't like the idea of giving anyone my information but it's getting harder and harder to get BTC without doing so. Localbitcoins.com is not an option for me as where I live there are not local BTC vendors. I used to use Dwolla but they are now requiring validated accounts for transfers to Bitinstant or Mtgox. I could buy coins from a vendor on SR but I don't like to unless it's a last resort.
Again; sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere else.
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You can still use Localbitcoins.com. The beautiful thing about the site is that it doesn't matter if they are close to you. You can use a bank deposit to anyone in the country. Look for bank deposit options on there. They are "supposedly" fully covered in escrow, so you can't be taken advantage of (I haven't personally confirmed this - I've never had an issue w/ them before).
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I think what you describe is fine, provided you don't actually give BitInstant your real identification and access it via Tor somehow. Otherwise I'd think it can be tied to you if they try really, really hard -- but I've never actually tried to do that, so I could be wrong here...
I think it comes down to "how paranoid are you," in the end. It sounds fine to me, but if you're a bigshot vendor -- well actually, if you're a bigshot vendor, you wouldn't need to buy coins, would you...
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Bitinstants 'redesign' had nothing to do with improving the aesthetics of their site. It had everything to do with complying with regulations or being shut down by the Feds. How is it if I put fake info in their website that it has a database that can check that? What kind of database would you need that holds every US and even Canadians person info(I had canadian friends try it to). Charlie Shrem is MIA and has been unable to comment. You would think if someone rolled out a new and improved version of there site with new features and it looks nicer you would hear a little self promotion but instead nothing. I might be a pretty paranoid person but I think it's served me well over the years and having a background in web development I tell you having a database that Bitinstant has is no small feat and not something I think they themselves could have built and redesigned in that short time frame that the site was down. I'll let you come to your own conclusions but for me IF I was to use Bitinstant it would be someone elses(real) persons info and that's a big IF. The government is basically saying we have no problem with Bitcoins but their actions prove they're waging an all out assualt to stop it by applying the same regulations to it as currency when in fact it's a commodity.
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I think what you describe is fine, provided you don't actually give BitInstant your real identification and access it via Tor somehow. Otherwise I'd think it can be tied to you if they try really, really hard -- but I've never actually tried to do that, so I could be wrong here...
I think it comes down to "how paranoid are you," in the end. It sounds fine to me, but if you're a bigshot vendor -- well actually, if you're a bigshot vendor, you wouldn't need to buy coins, would you...
Nope, not a vendor at all. I'm a buyer, and not even a bigshot buyer. I only ever buy personal amounts. I may share with a mate or two from time to time but not often enough to draw any attention from anyone.
I guess what I'm asking is if buying the coins non-anonymously is really going to put me at risk? I feel like I 'clean' my coins well enough before I send them to SR but I guess you can never be sure can you?
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I have not bought coins in over a month. I was using Bitinstant then upping to mtgox then cleaning through several different cleaners.
Today I went to check out bitinstant and it is totally different. It's the only real way I can get coins that I know of. And, now I cannot. I never get more than 2 btc. Now I am worried that I'll never be able to get coins or my medical marijuana again. =(
I am not near a bank of America..I have no clue on how to get them any other means. I have checked different methods but, always get confused in the end.
Any "helpful" information would be great.
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Like I said above - forget about Bitinstant. Sure, you can use it with a fake identity, but why? Localbitcions is around the same price from a fee standpoint (if you can find the coins at a decent rate), and there is no limit as to how much you buy (once you are established).
You do not need to meet someone locally to use localbitcions.
You can use localbitcoins the exact same way you use Bitinstant - in fact, it's better than bitinstant because each vendor receives a lower volume of deals daily and can process them faster. You can see what their average deal time looks like. I get my coins in about 5 minutes after deposited. I message the vendor before using to ensure they are online, tell them I'm going to deposit, and click a button once done and have my coins immediately.
I've never met anyone from Localbitcoins. Everytime I use it, I deposit into a bank (you can use just about any bank out there). You can also fund it with any form of payment you want (MP, Dwolla, etc). It puts you in the drivers seat, and lets you choose the terms.
Hell, you can even post a buy order at a certain price paying with a Moneypack.
It is really a versatile site - I highly recommend it.
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Like I said above - forget about Bitinstant. Sure, you can use it with a fake identity, but why? Localbitcions is around the same price from a fee standpoint (if you can find the coins at a decent rate), and there is no limit as to how much you buy (once you are established).
You do not need to meet someone locally to use localbitcions.
You can use localbitcoins the exact same way you use Bitinstant - in fact, it's better than bitinstant because each vendor receives a lower volume of deals daily and can process them faster. You can see what their average deal time looks like. I get my coins in about 5 minutes after deposited. I message the vendor before using to ensure they are online, tell them I'm going to deposit, and click a button once done and have my coins immediately.
I've never met anyone from Localbitcoins. Everytime I use it, I deposit into a bank (you can use just about any bank out there). You can also fund it with any form of payment you want (MP, Dwolla, etc). It puts you in the drivers seat, and lets you choose the terms.
Hell, you can even post a buy order at a certain price paying with a Moneypack.
It is really a versatile site - I highly recommend it.
I checked the site out. I'll have to look into it more, can it go into mtgox?
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localbitcoins = too much of a chance of dealing with LEO. SR has been a nightmare to them because of jurisdiction and anonymity, don't give them the chance to unmask you. Also don't think they don't know about localbitcoins. Today's LEO is really well organized and has a lot of continuous training.
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Bah...Looks like too many hoops to jump through. Looks as if I am done on SR. =(
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Use Blue Sky Traders!!
http://ok2yri46aaptiu2d.onion/index.htm
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LEO and local bitcoins wouldn't be that big of an issue because bitcoins and buying bitcoins aren't illegal.
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Use Blue Sky Traders!!
http://ok2yri46aaptiu2d.onion/index.htm
I checked out they're site and they say they are closed till next week.....
It sounds like they are backed up on coin orders.
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You can register with fake info, it just has to be real fake info now. They will then ask you 3 questions to "verify" that you are who you say you are. You can find some of the answers if you don't mind running background checks and doing your research. It took me a decent amount of effort to answer the questions correctly, but it is possible. After you get verified it works the same way as it used to. I'm sure there are better ways to get your bitcoins now, but for how long? I doubt the government runs the site now, even if they do you shouldn't be transferring bitcoins straight to SR anyways.
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You can register with fake info, it just has to be real fake info now. They will then ask you 3 questions to "verify" that you are who you say you are. You can find some of the answers if you don't mind running background checks and doing your research. It took me a decent amount of effort to answer the questions correctly, but it is possible. After you get verified it works the same way as it used to. I'm sure there are better ways to get your bitcoins now, but for how long? I doubt the government runs the site now, even if they do you shouldn't be transferring bitcoins straight to SR anyways.
I actually spent the better part of this morning doing the same thing you did. I was successful in creating a buy transaction with a real persons info however with that same persons info I was unsuccessful in creating a sell transaction. My previous comment about the Feds controlling the site was more an exaggeration but it does seem to me that Bitinstant were provided with a set of rules that they would have to follow or be shut down. From making numerous attempts on there site with different real peoples info that I was able to find it looks like it's basic public record stuff that Bitinstant is basing approval on. A good amount was from peoples credit reports, bank accounts, and some mortgages. So it almost seems that they have some sort of API that may be able to search different databases and in fact not be there own 'super' database cause like I said most of the stuff they ask was not to hard to find on public records.
With all that being said though this is there first attempt to stop anonymous transactions and within an 10 minutes I was able to get around it. I would expect there would be more features for security to be added to Bitinstant in the future. The other thing is I was trying to determine the pattern of the error messages the site would give me and it almost seems random which is very strange.
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virwox...
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Use Blue Sky Traders!!
http://ok2yri46aaptiu2d.onion/index.htm
Have you used them before? What was the experience like? I'm looking forward to them reopening, but I don't want to get my hopes up too much...
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You can register with fake info, it just has to be real fake info now. They will then ask you 3 questions to "verify" that you are who you say you are. You can find some of the answers if you don't mind running background checks and doing your research. It took me a decent amount of effort to answer the questions correctly, but it is possible. After you get verified it works the same way as it used to. I'm sure there are better ways to get your bitcoins now, but for how long? I doubt the government runs the site now, even if they do you shouldn't be transferring bitcoins straight to SR anyways.
I actually spent the better part of this morning doing the same thing you did. I was successful in creating a buy transaction with a real persons info however with that same persons info I was unsuccessful in creating a sell transaction. My previous comment about the Feds controlling the site was more an exaggeration but it does seem to me that Bitinstant were provided with a set of rules that they would have to follow or be shut down. From making numerous attempts on there site with different real peoples info that I was able to find it looks like it's basic public record stuff that Bitinstant is basing approval on. A good amount was from peoples credit reports, bank accounts, and some mortgages. So it almost seems that they have some sort of API that may be able to search different databases and in fact not be there own 'super' database cause like I said most of the stuff they ask was not to hard to find on public records.
With all that being said though this is there first attempt to stop anonymous transactions and within an 10 minutes I was able to get around it. I would expect there would be more features for security to be added to Bitinstant in the future. The other thing is I was trying to determine the pattern of the error messages the site would give me and it almost seems random which is very strange.
I hope they don't ramp up security anymore. I actually met a group of bitcoin aficionados that I'm probably going to start buying bitcoins from so hopefully I won't have to play cat and mouse with the government anymore. I haven't tried to sell any bitcoins, but I have bought bitcoins 2 times off of the new site successfully. The only errors I've received were identity errors, though they did not really specify that as the problem in the error message.
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The only errors I've received were identity errors, though they did not really specify that as the problem in the error message.
That seems to be the only error message as they don't want to give out too much info on what is wrong cause you could just try again. Like if it said Date of Birth incorrect then you'd know. But what I was saying most sites when it comes to form validation follow a certain pattern of error checking. Like for example I had one persons info but they had two last names so something like Bobby Jones. Now I entered that in and got rejected however that info was pulled from there bank records so I was like hmmm..so I went ahead and just put in Jones and it worked. I think they have some sort of safeguard that's trying to prevent fraud. Like if someone comes to the site that safeguard will watch for a certain pattern and if it notices it then you get an error. I'm probably spending too much time thinking about it but it's my field so w/e lol.... in terms of buying bitcoins buying local is always a good choice even though I'm not afraid to use Bitinstant cause I'm not a big buyer/seller.
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Bitinstant now allows you to pay through your bank account with an iphone app. It's basically like coinbase now except its instant. So if you are cool with coinbase, i don't see whats the difference in trusting bitinstant in this regard.
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localbitcoins = too much of a chance of dealing with LEO. SR has been a nightmare to them because of jurisdiction and anonymity, don't give them the chance to unmask you. Also don't think they don't know about localbitcoins. Today's LEO is really well organized and has a lot of continuous training.
How is buying from Localbitcoins any different than Bitinstant? For all we know, they are LEO as well. Like I said, you don't have to meet anyone in person. Bitcoins are completely legal to purchase - you are in just as much risk buying them from Bitinstant as you are from Localbitcoins. There is no difference, only the fact that it is more decentralized - it's like having 20 different "Bitinstants" at the same site and you pick the one with the best rates/terms.
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For the 50th million time, bitcoins are not illegal, Bitcoins are not used only for SR. Bitcoins have a different purpose, people need to realize this. If you want to remain more anonymous yes buying threw a local btc trader is the way to go, pay cash. Sr has a tumbler bulit in. The only advantage, that local BTC has is different rates and more anonymous. Hell sometimes you can get them without fees. BUT that besides the point. IF they ever do become illegal, just move your btc to a different wallet put that on a flash drive.
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I don't like the idea of meeting a stranger to trade Bitcoins..it's just way too many unknowns.
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I don't like the idea of meeting a stranger to trade Bitcoins..it's just way too many unknowns.
Again, Localbitcoins DOES NOT require you to meet ANYONE in person. You can use vendors who offer WU, Moneygram, multiple bank deposits, moneypak, vanilla reload. They have escrow, and I've never had a problem. There are alot of vendors on there with 98,99, 100% feedback, and dozens of transactions.
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I don't think you realize how many packages are shipped from this site daily. I'm not going into specifics, but even if SR could come up with a cheap (~10 dollar) tracking device, we're talking tens of thousands of dollars daily.
I don't like the idea of meeting a stranger to trade Bitcoins..it's just way too many unknowns.
Again, Localbitcoins DOES NOT require you to meet ANYONE in person. You can use vendors who offer WU, Moneygram, multiple bank deposits, moneypak, vanilla reload. They have escrow, and I've never had a problem. There are alot of vendors on there with 98,99, 100% feedback, and dozens of transactions.
Yes I know that cause I actually did manage to read there site. It was a tough read though. I'm not sure how I got through all of it but I did my best. SO I'm the seller and a guy contacts me and he wants 50 Bitcoins but he only wants to meet in person? What then? Throw the deal or go take a chance?
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I don't think you realize how many packages are shipped from this site daily. I'm not going into specifics, but even if SR could come up with a cheap (~10 dollar) tracking device, we're talking tens of thousands of dollars daily.
I don't like the idea of meeting a stranger to trade Bitcoins..it's just way too many unknowns.
Again, Localbitcoins DOES NOT require you to meet ANYONE in person. You can use vendors who offer WU, Moneygram, multiple bank deposits, moneypak, vanilla reload. They have escrow, and I've never had a problem. There are alot of vendors on there with 98,99, 100% feedback, and dozens of transactions.
Yes I know that cause I actually did manage to read there site. It was a tough read though. I'm not sure how I got through all of it but I did my best. SO I'm the seller and a guy contacts me and he wants 50 Bitcoins but he only wants to meet in person? What then? Throw the deal or go take a chance?
You can be the buyer or seller, and as a buyer, if someone only wants to meet in person, and you aren't comfortable w/ it, move onto someone else. As a seller, same thing.
They have escrow for online transactions, so you know the bitcoins are there, ready to be released (if the buyer disappears after you deposit $ into their bank account, Localbitcoins will release the funds to you after they haven't heard from the buyer in a while.
Every transaction I've done on there has been through bank transfer, and every transaction I've done I've received the bitcoins within 5 minutes of clicking the payment complete button. Talk to the vendor before buying from them, make sure they are around, and tell them you are going to the bank now. It's doesn't get much easier than this site.
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I don't think you realize how many packages are shipped from this site daily. I'm not going into specifics, but even if SR could come up with a cheap (~10 dollar) tracking device, we're talking tens of thousands of dollars daily.
I don't like the idea of meeting a stranger to trade Bitcoins..it's just way too many unknowns.
Again, Localbitcoins DOES NOT require you to meet ANYONE in person. You can use vendors who offer WU, Moneygram, multiple bank deposits, moneypak, vanilla reload. They have escrow, and I've never had a problem. There are alot of vendors on there with 98,99, 100% feedback, and dozens of transactions.
Yes I know that cause I actually did manage to read there site. It was a tough read though. I'm not sure how I got through all of it but I did my best. SO I'm the seller and a guy contacts me and he wants 50 Bitcoins but he only wants to meet in person? What then? Throw the deal or go take a chance?
You can be the buyer or seller, and as a buyer, if someone only wants to meet in person, and you aren't comfortable w/ it, move onto someone else. As a seller, same thing.
They have escrow for online transactions, so you know the bitcoins are there, ready to be released (if the buyer disappears after you deposit $ into their bank account, Localbitcoins will release the funds to you after they haven't heard from the buyer in a while.
Every transaction I've done on there has been through bank transfer, and every transaction I've done I've received the bitcoins within 5 minutes of clicking the payment complete button. Talk to the vendor before buying from them, make sure they are around, and tell them you are going to the bank now. It's doesn't get much easier than this site.
Ya true I suppose would just be hard to pass up that sale. The good thing I like about Local Bitcoins and I'm actually surprised that more people don't use them even though I'm guilty of that is if say 1000 ppl a day were using Local bitcoins to conduct face to face trades cops would have a hard time trying to keep tabs on buyers/sellers if that's what they were planning.
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i'd like to do a local meetup, but problem is.. no one around my area has any feedback. too risky for me to trade with random people.
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i'd like to do a local meetup, but problem is.. no one around my area has any feedback. too risky for me to trade with random people.
Ginger - I don't have anyone "near" me that can do a local meet up either. You use it just like Bitinstant - deposit into a bank account, Western Union, Reloadit, MoneyPack, etc, etc, etc.
Is it a cop? Who knows or cares. I can buy bitcoin all fucking day long. They can even subpoena bank surveillance video of me. I give two shits. They can't connect me to this site, and can't connect me to a drop address.
If everything else in your security chain is tight, which it should be, you have nothing to worry about purchasing bc.
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thanks.. i used moneypak with bitinstant, so i'm familiar with that process. this was a few months ago. is it still just as lenient at walmart? thought i read something about the info requirement becoming more strict.
i remember wells fargo or bofa being a swift and easy process too.. i might try that, but i forget if they require IDs or personal information. will have to look that up.
I don't like the idea of meeting a stranger to trade Bitcoins..it's just way too many unknowns.
Again, Localbitcoins DOES NOT require you to meet ANYONE in person. You can use vendors who offer WU, Moneygram, multiple bank deposits, moneypak, vanilla reload. They have escrow, and I've never had a problem. There are alot of vendors on there with 98,99, 100% feedback, and dozens of transactions.
problem for me is that we know big brother is watching. i know it's not illegal to buy bitcoins, but i definitely don't want to be put on some big brother/NSA watch list.
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Is it a cop? Who knows or cares. I can buy bitcoin all fucking day long. They can even subpoena bank surveillance video of me. I give two shits. They can't connect me to this site, and can't connect me to a drop address.
If everything else in your security chain is tight, which it should be, you have nothing to worry about purchasing bc.
It's pretty tough talk. I'd say there's a lot LE could do if you unintentionally meet with one for a BTC trade. If he saw you were a big mover of coins then he'll keep coming back to you. Learn everything about you. Where you go, what you do... sure keep the house clean but the drugs have to be somewhere right? Listen I'm not trying to start an argument all I'm saying is once your on the radar it's impossible to get off. Idk if you're trading Bitcoins a lot the ideal option is to have a front for it. A seemingly legitimate way that makes Bitcoins for you but acutally doesn't. Your right though Bitcoins are not illegal but I think we can say most of the ppl here are using them to do something illegal so of course we're going to be cautious.
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Is bitinstant not allowing guest transactions for anyone else?
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I try to stay sharp about a number of security practices, but for some reasons buying BTC anonymously is not on my list.
I perceive that by the time they are in my SR account there is no actionable connection to me. I also appreciate this is not certain.
Relative to purchasing BTC, I perceive the riskier weak links security wise are:
1. vendors having your name and address even if you provide it using PGP encryption
2. all the typical risks involved with actual shipment - including transit, receipt, and the possibility of a vendor being compromised
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I try to stay sharp about a number of security practices, but for some reasons buying BTC anonymously is not on my list.
I perceive that by the time they are in my SR account there is no actionable connection to me. I also appreciate this is not certain.
Relative to purchasing BTC, I perceive the riskier weak links security wise are:
1. vendors having your name and address even if you provide it using PGP encryption
2. all the typical risks involved with actual shipment - including transit, receipt, and the possibility of a vendor being compromised
This. it isn't illegal. I think a lot of these "fake identities" are actually kind of counter-productive, especially considering that a good tumbler can erase most traces.
The only credible argument I've seen so far against this is that we end up on an NSA watchlist. I'm inclined to think this is 100% the case as bitcoin is so maligned in the media. Check the Australian Report on SR--they say something like, "They use bitcoin, a currency for drug and child porn trade"
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I agree that, similar to it being rational to assume any unencrypted email or phone communication is being monitored by LEO, it is rational to assume that purchasing BTC will get you flagged by LEO at some level. So will any number of other behaviors that we do and don't think about.
I have assumed this for years, like many of you intelligent people, regardless of the Snowden BS.
But aside from that: who knows for sure, never talk to LE, try to practice best security methods at each level, and the more the merrier!
Or we can just all go cop on the street that sounds like a blast ::)
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I agree that, similar to it being rational to assume any unencrypted email or phone communication is being monitored by LEO, it is rational to assume that purchasing BTC will get you flagged by LEO at some level. So will any number of other behaviors that we do and don't think about.
I have assumed this for years, like many of you intelligent people, regardless of the Snowden BS.
But aside from that: who knows for sure, never talk to LE, try to practice best security methods at each level, and the more the merrier!
Or we can just all go cop on the street that sounds like a blast ::)
I actually didn't know about it until the "Snowden BS," but it wasn't a surprise. I just wonder how useful programs such as those are. I suppose they use some machine learning algorithm or the like to see if your activity has a chance of being "suspect" on some supercomputer.
I still don't think there's much to worry about with a good tumbler (I just checked the taint analysis and mine is working well). And all in all, there are still probably more chances of being caught with IRL deals (busts/leads/witnesses/other people in general).
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I still don't think there's much to worry about with a good tumbler (I just checked the taint analysis and mine is working well).
And all in all, there are still probably more chances of being caught with IRL deals (busts/leads/witnesses/other people in general).
When you have time I would be interested in hearing your basic tumbling method for BTC - summary of how you get from USD to SR account.
Your final statement is completely true and nearly inarguable to me. I just can't envision arguing against it and I am pretty good at that in general.
The global meat grinding machine sucks, the drug war sucks, the police suck, and most of all copping illegal drugs IRL sucks. You are at so many levels of disadvantage AND wasting a ton of time, which to functional users is very valuable. Most sober people don't appreciate that reality, let alone drug users/abusers/addicts. Time is extremely valuable.
I would prefer to never have to cop IRL unless it is something like cannabis from a good friend. And I would state the same for any friend or family member. I would hope they aren't copping anything illegal IRL unless it is full intimate friend and small amounts of things that are relatively decriminalized.
I would be very interested in arguments to the contrary.
Fuck tha cops.
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I agree that, similar to it being rational to assume any unencrypted email or phone communication is being monitored by LEO, it is rational to assume that purchasing BTC will get you flagged by LEO at some level. So will any number of other behaviors that we do and don't think about.
I have assumed this for years, like many of you intelligent people, regardless of the Snowden BS.
But aside from that: who knows for sure, never talk to LE, try to practice best security methods at each level, and the more the merrier!
Or we can just all go cop on the street that sounds like a blast ::)
That's something I believe in too but I always seem to get flank and some smart ass will always responsed 'OMG U RETARD BITCOINS ARE LEGAL YOUR JUST A TWEAKER!'... that's such a simplistic view of the whole situation I almost feel sorry for that persons brain. Whether or not it is legal is not even the point.
I agree that, similar to it being rational to assume any unencrypted email or phone communication is being monitored by LEO, it is rational to assume that purchasing BTC will get you flagged by LEO at some level.
That's the point.
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The whole point of bitinstant was that you used it to avoid long verification and funding delays on exchanges and instead you could buy a small amount of coins right away or move funds quickly into the exchanges. Lol now that site is pretty useless since you now have to verify and wait.. and then wait again for them to process your order in the backlog they always have.
Localbitcoins. Bitcointalk or IRC p2p trade is the solution. Stop supporting banks, corporations and middlemen just trade off each other.
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Sad and Mad ~ Just about every comment in this thread has merit and it is saving me much of my own time and energy by the sharing of things i had been working on or wanted to try. Thank you ppl. I have been unable to use SR since the US btc crackdown. I have been scammed repeatedly irl lately - the time, money and stress are not only unhealthy but demand a new paradigm. However those with the pov "why worry? Btc is not illegal" are naive at best - anarchy cat could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit a better argument. At a presentation all had to attend at an educational institution for which i am an independent contractor , LE rep said Bitcoin is used for illegal purposes (child porn and drugs) and that was it, period. (Also-" Line-X is used by hackers" with stern look and emphasis on haackers! was one of his gems as well. The facts do not matter to "them" as we know trueth and other...dont get me started. That if there is btc software on a machine they want to know who, period. LEO went so far as to say that they could be grounds for being fired. Also TOR True Crypt, PGP. He even said "write these down" and proceeded with (to me , laughable explanations of what these programs are and do and there was No legitimate uses even mentioned) They are engaged in controlling dialogue and the meaning of words (as they have with hacker, feminist, etc. and have upped the game) and not even just scare the normies but make them feel they are helping make the world better by reporting these child predators and depraved drug addicts. The old "if you arent doing anything wrong..." was the underlying philosophy and questioning it made one suspect. The reality is "they"do not play by rules such as "legal" or not. I think we need to make sure as mny ppl as we can get to install and hopelulzy use these programs do so. Then its a war of #s More of us than them" and it will be harder to isolate individuals in a larger movement. Cryptoparties indeed. I look forward to work arounds soon, its been challenging and so far not enough Time to be successful. I appreciate hearing your experiences with any and all weapons in this cyberwar for All the Important and/or Fun Things. I hope this thread is used further to scaffold our collective minds...again thank you all for your insights. An idea...a wikiguide of some different pathways with amt of barriers of tumbling benefits and downsides ...I am srsly jonesin' to be on the Road again n case u cant tell ;)
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localbitcoins = too much of a chance of dealing with LEO. SR has been a nightmare to them because of jurisdiction and anonymity, don't give them the chance to unmask you. Also don't think they don't know about localbitcoins. Today's LEO is really well organized and has a lot of continuous training.
How is buying from Localbitcoins any different than Bitinstant? For all we know, they are LEO as well. Like I said, you don't have to meet anyone in person. Bitcoins are completely legal to purchase - you are in just as much risk buying them from Bitinstant as you are from Localbitcoins. There is no difference, only the fact that it is more decentralized - it's like having 20 different "Bitinstants" at the same site and you pick the one with the best rates/terms.
After just using localbitcoins successfully to get coins I can say it does work and it's a pretty easy/seamless process. The only thing I'm still not a fan of is that it requires me to go to my bank, get cash, then go to somewhere else to buy a card or deposit at a bank. If I could eliminate leaving my house to carry around large amounts of cash I'd feel much safer. Unfortunately WU doesn't work for me. Bitinstant would be much easier if I trusted them with my info. This is a better option than anything else I've found though so thanks all!
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Sad and Mad ~ Just about every comment in this thread has merit and it is saving me much of my own time and energy by the sharing of things i had been working on or wanted to try. Thank you ppl. I have been unable to use SR since the US btc crackdown. I have been scammed repeatedly irl lately - the time, money and stress are not only unhealthy but demand a new paradigm. However those with the pov "why worry? Btc is not illegal" are naive at best - anarchy cat could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit a better argument. At a presentation all had to attend at an educational institution for which i am an independent contractor , LE rep said Bitcoin is used for illegal purposes (child porn and drugs) and that was it, period. (Also-" Line-X is used by hackers" with stern look and emphasis on haackers! was one of his gems as well. The facts do not matter to "them" as we know trueth and other...dont get me started. That if there is btc software on a machine they want to know who, period. LEO went so far as to say that they could be grounds for being fired. Also TOR True Crypt, PGP. He even said "write these down" and proceeded with (to me , laughable explanations of what these programs are and do and there was No legitimate uses even mentioned) They are engaged in controlling dialogue and the meaning of words (as they have with hacker, feminist, etc. and have upped the game) and not even just scare the normies but make them feel they are helping make the world better by reporting these child predators and depraved drug addicts. The old "if you arent doing anything wrong..." was the underlying philosophy and questioning it made one suspect. The reality is "they"do not play by rules such as "legal" or not. I think we need to make sure as mny ppl as we can get to install and hopelulzy use these programs do so. Then its a war of #s More of us than them" and it will be harder to isolate individuals in a larger movement. Cryptoparties indeed. I look forward to work arounds soon, its been challenging and so far not enough Time to be successful. I appreciate hearing your experiences with any and all weapons in this cyberwar for All the Important and/or Fun Things. I hope this thread is used further to scaffold our collective minds...again thank you all for your insights. An idea...a wikiguide of some different pathways with amt of barriers of tumbling benefits and downsides ...I am srsly jonesin' to be on the Road again n case u cant tell ;)
This is pretty much what we've conceded to. I'm fairly certain LEO has a watchlist for pretty much anyone in: the BTC trade, using Tor (without offshore VPN), using any type of cryptography, and using a proxy. All are pretty much maligned. From drugs, CP, to torrenting, it's pretty much all in the same boat. If they can't see you, you are doing something wrong.
I don't think there is a feasible way to totally anonymize BTC now, after the LR scandal. I see people boasting using localbitcoin, which requires you list your BANK ACCOUNT. That's pretty much exactly what I would need if I were LE; it's even better than having your info because Banks are even more willing and able to help with total transaction summaries and investigative algorithms of their own.
I think the one thing we have to realize is that we are doing somethng wrong, however, there's no clear and direct lead to us, which is pretty much all we can hope for with PRISM and other monitoring. Being on a watchlist in and of itself probably is not that powerful. Fear mongering, however, is.
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well then if they have a list of anyone buying bitcoins....my mom is now on that list. LOL
boy will they get a shock if they raid her...in her nursing home.
i buy bitcoins thru a regular browser using real info (real as in its my mom) ,....then I tumble the heck out of it (31 tumbles) and send to SR ...but only once or twice a month. low profile.
bitinstant took 4 hours to get the coins to my wallet but for once...it was OK becuase I had fallen asleep...due to lack of gear
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I just used bitinstant for a smallish transaction. It was all quick as it used to be. You just have to have someone's legit info and pass the quiz. It's not that hard. I had 3 confirmations within like 20 minutes of leaving the moneygram place
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clearnet warning:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/05/why-do-vcs-care-about-bitcoin/
http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/19/30-days-in-bitcoin-angel-group-bitangels-doubles-network-to-120-puts-first-100k-into-seasteading-venture-blueseed/
bitcoins are increasingly being used by investors and venture capitalists, to the point that i think within the next couple years legitimate bitcoin-based businesses will make up the vast majority of the market. they ran an article about how great of an investment it can be in Forbes and did an interview with the BitAngels CEO for Fortune 500 and on CNBC.. the stigma of bitcoins being used for drugs and weapons and cp is going to fade with time, as will its association with the deepweb.
for fuck's sake, my 85 year old grandfather is a lifelong accountant and hobbyist day-trader and he just told me the other day how he's been watching these new things called bitcoins and that he's now dying to get in on it. he thinks that it will prove a better investment than wall street at this point if he wants to leave something of value to his children when he passes. even my mom, who is so fed up with ALL banks to the point that she started just stashing cash in the house for a while, is looking into bitcoin (totally independently of both me and my grandfather) as a way to conduct business without having to get fucked raw by banks, corporations and middlemen..
open your eyes folks, any "crackdown" on bitcoin will be completely ineffective and a massive waste of resources. this is what people who have real money and real power to play around with are getting interested in, so to be honest i have no problem giving western union all of my information and conducting business online through them via traders on localbitcoin. put me on an NSA watchlist, please, along with the hundreds of thousands of new investors and people tired of the current banking bullshit... i'm sure my little transaction will stick out like a sore thumb, huh???
lay off the paint thinner and check back into reality guys.. ;)
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In regards too people using Localbitcoin, there are btc vendors on there that offer moneygram payment. I am still unsure whether I will be using them or, just saying fuck it and quit smoking my pot until something changes. Whether it be with btc or my state changes it laws on medical marijuana. To where I can get it from a doctor.
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In regards too people using Localbitcoin, there are btc vendors on there that offer moneygram payment. I am still unsure whether I will be using them or, just saying fuck it and quit smoking my pot until something changes. Whether it be with btc or my state changes it laws on medical marijuana. To where I can get it from a doctor.
ive always used the moneygram option with really great success (and i can't leave my house for various reasons), so don't let it be a barrier to you getting your medication fam!! it's extremely easy and convenient, give it a shot..
-
Sad and Mad ~ Just about every comment in this thread has merit and it is saving me much of my own time and energy by the sharing of things i had been working on or wanted to try. Thank you ppl. I have been unable to use SR since the US btc crackdown. I have been scammed repeatedly irl lately - the time, money and stress are not only unhealthy but demand a new paradigm. However those with the pov "why worry? Btc is not illegal" are naive at best - anarchy cat could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit a better argument. At a presentation all had to attend at an educational institution for which i am an independent contractor , LE rep said Bitcoin is used for illegal purposes (child porn and drugs) and that was it, period. (Also-" Line-X is used by hackers" with stern look and emphasis on haackers! was one of his gems as well. The facts do not matter to "them" as we know trueth and other...dont get me started. That if there is btc software on a machine they want to know who, period. LEO went so far as to say that they could be grounds for being fired. Also TOR True Crypt, PGP. He even said "write these down" and proceeded with (to me , laughable explanations of what these programs are and do and there was No legitimate uses even mentioned) They are engaged in controlling dialogue and the meaning of words (as they have with hacker, feminist, etc. and have upped the game) and not even just scare the normies but make them feel they are helping make the world better by reporting these child predators and depraved drug addicts. The old "if you arent doing anything wrong..." was the underlying philosophy and questioning it made one suspect. The reality is "they"do not play by rules such as "legal" or not. I think we need to make sure as mny ppl as we can get to install and hopelulzy use these programs do so. Then its a war of #s More of us than them" and it will be harder to isolate individuals in a larger movement. Cryptoparties indeed. I look forward to work arounds soon, its been challenging and so far not enough Time to be successful. I appreciate hearing your experiences with any and all weapons in this cyberwar for All the Important and/or Fun Things. I hope this thread is used further to scaffold our collective minds...again thank you all for your insights. An idea...a wikiguide of some different pathways with amt of barriers of tumbling benefits and downsides ...I am srsly jonesin' to be on the Road again n case u cant tell ;)
good points but as a tweaker I do always enjoy a well placed line break. That was pretty painful to read lol... otherwise agree with ya 8)
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clearnet warning:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/05/why-do-vcs-care-about-bitcoin/
http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/19/30-days-in-bitcoin-angel-group-bitangels-doubles-network-to-120-puts-first-100k-into-seasteading-venture-blueseed/
bitcoins are increasingly being used by investors and venture capitalists, to the point that i think within the next couple years legitimate bitcoin-based businesses will make up the vast majority of the market. they ran an article about how great of an investment it can be in Forbes and did an interview with the BitAngels CEO for Fortune 500 and on CNBC.. the stigma of bitcoins being used for drugs and weapons and cp is going to fade with time, as will its association with the deepweb.
for fuck's sake, my 85 year old grandfather is a lifelong accountant and hobbyist day-trader and he just told me the other day how he's been watching these new things called bitcoins and that he's now dying to get in on it. he thinks that it will prove a better investment than wall street at this point if he wants to leave something of value to his children when he passes. even my mom, who is so fed up with ALL banks to the point that she started just stashing cash in the house for a while, is looking into bitcoin (totally independently of both me and my grandfather) as a way to conduct business without having to get fucked raw by banks, corporations and middlemen..
open your eyes folks, any "crackdown" on bitcoin will be completely ineffective and a massive waste of resources. this is what people who have real money and real power to play around with are getting interested in, so to be honest i have no problem giving western union all of my information and conducting business online through them via traders on localbitcoin. put me on an NSA watchlist, please, along with the hundreds of thousands of new investors and people tired of the current banking bullshit... i'm sure my little transaction will stick out like a sore thumb, huh???
lay off the paint thinner and check back into reality guys.. ;)
I don't think our concern here is that Bitcoin will be eradicated as that's technically impossible but it seems a strategy of fear mongering and uncertainity is being used when it comes to ppl like us buying bitcoins. Think about it for a sec. I go do a $500 Bitinstant transaction with fake info which I've done before but this time they email and ask for id's and verifications which I believe they legally could as they follow FinCen regulations. What then? You think I'm going to cry outrage or just take my loss?
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clearnet warning:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/05/why-do-vcs-care-about-bitcoin/
http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/19/30-days-in-bitcoin-angel-group-bitangels-doubles-network-to-120-puts-first-100k-into-seasteading-venture-blueseed/
bitcoins are increasingly being used by investors and venture capitalists, to the point that i think within the next couple years legitimate bitcoin-based businesses will make up the vast majority of the market. they ran an article about how great of an investment it can be in Forbes and did an interview with the BitAngels CEO for Fortune 500 and on CNBC.. the stigma of bitcoins being used for drugs and weapons and cp is going to fade with time, as will its association with the deepweb.
for fuck's sake, my 85 year old grandfather is a lifelong accountant and hobbyist day-trader and he just told me the other day how he's been watching these new things called bitcoins and that he's now dying to get in on it. he thinks that it will prove a better investment than wall street at this point if he wants to leave something of value to his children when he passes. even my mom, who is so fed up with ALL banks to the point that she started just stashing cash in the house for a while, is looking into bitcoin (totally independently of both me and my grandfather) as a way to conduct business without having to get fucked raw by banks, corporations and middlemen..
open your eyes folks, any "crackdown" on bitcoin will be completely ineffective and a massive waste of resources. this is what people who have real money and real power to play around with are getting interested in, so to be honest i have no problem giving western union all of my information and conducting business online through them via traders on localbitcoin. put me on an NSA watchlist, please, along with the hundreds of thousands of new investors and people tired of the current banking bullshit... i'm sure my little transaction will stick out like a sore thumb, huh???
lay off the paint thinner and check back into reality guys.. ;)
I don't think our concern here is that Bitcoin will be eradicated as that's technically impossible but it seems a strategy of fear mongering and uncertainity is being used when it comes to ppl like us buying bitcoins. Think about it for a sec. I go do a $500 Bitinstant transaction with fake info which I've done before but this time they email and ask for id's and verifications which I believe they legally could as they follow FinCen regulations. What then? You think I'm going to cry outrage or just take my loss?
erm no just buy from someplace that doesnt require ID.. or use your real identity?? bitinstant is obv going down the drain anyways..
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In regards too people using Localbitcoin, there are btc vendors on there that offer moneygram payment. I am still unsure whether I will be using them or, just saying fuck it and quit smoking my pot until something changes. Whether it be with btc or my state changes it laws on medical marijuana. To where I can get it from a doctor.
ive always used the moneygram option with really great success (and i can't leave my house for various reasons), so don't let it be a barrier to you getting your medication fam!! it's extremely easy and convenient, give it a shot..
How you using a moneygram if you can't leave?
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In regards too people using Localbitcoin, there are btc vendors on there that offer moneygram payment. I am still unsure whether I will be using them or, just saying fuck it and quit smoking my pot until something changes. Whether it be with btc or my state changes it laws on medical marijuana. To where I can get it from a doctor.
ive always used the moneygram option with really great success (and i can't leave my house for various reasons), so don't let it be a barrier to you getting your medication fam!! it's extremely easy and convenient, give it a shot..
How you using a moneygram if you can't leave?
Scartching my head here too wondering wtf is this dude talking about. I've always had to walk in to Walmart to complete my MoneyGrap transaction via ZipZap service so I have no clue wtf this dude is smoking.
Anyway, I had to stay away from drugs for about a month now since I received inside info that my company will be undergoing some random drug testing and gladly I am on the clear for now but last night the devil keeps asking for some fun so I went to bitinstant this morning to create a $300 MoneyGrap deposit at walmart only to find out that bitinstant sold their soul to LE...at least it seems that way..
Has anyone successfully used bitinstant since the changes? Anyone? Any other safe alternatives out there that has the moneygram option?
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Just used bitinstant last week. Funds were in my account by the time I got back from dropping off the money.
Not sure what all the LE paranoia is. Purchasing BTC as far as I know isn't illegal.
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I don't see the big deal with using localbitcoins and meeting someone in person. Meet in a public place, coffee shop, restaurant, whatever. Then once theyre in the localbitcoins acct, send the bitcoins to an encrypted software wallet. Then do as you wish with them.
Am I missing how this is a risk?
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My fellow SR users to clear the mass confusion I'd just like to say that for your average SR user who spends $300-$500 buying Bitcoins I don't think you need to be really too worried even if you use your real info. However common sense rules still apply. Keeping a clean house. Keeping a low key profile in real life. Not looking like a crackhead. These things set of more alarms.
Ok so let's say that I'm LE cause my theory is always to devise a plan of defense you have to think what would your enemy be doing to try to get you. So here I am a LE agent looking through the transactions from Bitinstant(let's assume LE has a backdoor with the Bitinstant database)... ok so they see your name that you bought 3 Bitcoins. For some reason they look into further by following those Bitcoins through the network which isn't hard but it's not something your average LE agent can do. So this means it needs to be brought higher up, which means more manpower which means more money spent from there budget.
Now let's assume that this LE agent deems that in your case it is worthwhile to proceed. So they do the trace and they somehow manage to see that it got to a SR address(even though SR has a built in tumbler). I find it very unlikely they would be able to trace to the SR address but say they do they still can't prove anything however now they're small chubby has turned into a raging hard on.
What they would try to do is monitor the network and try to catch your exit relay which also means more department budget money being spent hoping to catch some unencrypted address info or any real info that can tie you to the that Bitinstant order. But really it's one hell of a goose chase for LE for a result your unsure of.
If someone is stupid enough not to use PGP when sending vendors their address info then that's one thing but the other thing to consider assuming all of this happened and you were caught is how exactly would the courts prove that you used Tor to access Silk Road to order that specific package when all information over Silk Road is encrypted? They could prove you used Tor. You can use bridge to avoid that. VPN's.
I encourage everyone to be cautious and paranoid but let's add to that also a bit of reasoning and common sense. Security measures are meant to be broken. There are so many ways to keep safe doing what we do. That being said I still don't like Local Bitcoins. Something about that just screams SKETCH to me but that's my own personal opinion.
I would think using Local Bitcoins would be more of a risk than Bitinstant cause here I've meet a person in R/L who could have a third person watching over the meet area, looking to see what car I leave in, get my plate #, run it through the DMV database and bingo. You see. Now you tell me hypothetically with all that being said which seems more risky. Ya I know the guys on Local Bitcoins are stand up dudes. LE would never pose as Local bitcoin seller...what are you crazy?
**edit**The last scenario only applies to someone that's buying large amounts of BTC for small buyers I doubt that would happen.
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I don't see the big deal with using localbitcoins and meeting someone in person. Meet in a public place, coffee shop, restaurant, whatever. Then once theyre in the localbitcoins acct, send the bitcoins to an encrypted software wallet. Then do as you wish with them.
Am I missing how this is a risk?
lol that is the last thing I would want to do is meet a complete stranger out in public to get some coins...wtf u smoking brah?
How the fuck did buying coins 100% anonymously switched to meeting someone in public?
Yes! you are missing a whole lot. Consider yourself lucky this time.