Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Pure Red Eye on June 13, 2013, 05:14 pm

Title: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Pure Red Eye on June 13, 2013, 05:14 pm
Hello to all

This is my first post in the non-newbie section, so i hope this is a constructive post that will have a educational outcome.

I have been reading different threads throughout the forum as to which Boot-able OS should be ran for optimum security, obviously the big 2 around here seems to be Tails and Liberte, now for vendors this is understandable as they need Persistent Volume, but what about for buyers?

I have had a Ubuntu live USB in my possession for over 2 years( currently running version 13.04 ) and i love the GUI and would prefer to use this rather than learning a new OS such as Tails or Liberte.

Now when i initially start my computer with the Ubuntu system, the first thing i do is download TOR, the second is download PGP4USB,

(My Bitcoin Wallet runs on my original OS and when it comes to time for buying coin i must buy from a source that requires verification, for this reason shortly after purchasing i wash my coin through Bitfog, which is where they stay until i am ready to transfer to SR)

now as soon as i shut down/restart and take out the USB, TOR/PGP4USB will no longer be installed. For me this is not a pain in the ass as they take 5 minutes to reinstall.

As i have mentioned i am here to buy not to sell, i require PGP for encrypting my personal data with the vendors Public Key, nothing else.

The main point of a boot-able OS is to stop your computer keeping records of what you do isn't it?

I could be completely wrong in what i am saying, but from what i have been reading Tails/Libere has lots of 'goodies' that are already set up to run through TOR most of these 'goodies' are not relevant if your objective is simply to purchase through the Road.

So my question really is, as a buyer (whose house could be raided due to illicit substance being stored and weighed) would i really be any safer using Tails or Liberte in comparison to my sweet Ubuntu? and if so why?

P.s If this is a stupid Question please take it easy on me, as i have only just graduated from Newbs-ville.


Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Just Chipper on June 13, 2013, 07:17 pm
now for vendors this is understandable as they need Persistent Volume, but what about for buyers?

My Bitcoin Wallet runs on my original OS

The main point of a boot-able OS is to stop your computer keeping records of what you do isn't it?

So my question really is, as a buyer (whose house could be raided due to illicit substance being stored and weighed) would i really be any safer using Tails or Liberte in comparison to my sweet Ubuntu? and if so why?

You do not need to use persistence. You can have Tails or Liberte boot off a CD or a USB without persistence enabled.

You can run Electrum Bitcoin Wallet on Tails LiveUSB without needing to involve your default OS.

Yes. But having persistence means that only the USB has files on it, not the PC. Also Tails wipes your memory before it shuts down.

Yes, Ubuntu LiveCD does not have a hardened kernel like Tails and Liberte. Also it is much more prone to DNS and IP leaks as it was not designed with anonyminity in mind. Tails is Debian based like Ubuntu. It would be the closest to a regular Ubuntu LiveCD as possible. Liberte is Gentoo.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Pure Red Eye on June 13, 2013, 08:14 pm
Thanks for the reply Chipper,

Electrum Bitcoin wallet was one thing i did see as an advantage, but as my bitcoin spends next to no time in my wallet and gets washed threw a hidden service before being transfer to SR, i didn't think there was anything traceable there.

As for Tails wiping the memory upon shutdown, i believe this is a feature of any Linux live cd / usb.

As for the last part of your comment that worries me, enough to switch.

Think tails is the way forward then.

Thanks for the advice.


Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Just Chipper on June 13, 2013, 08:33 pm
Electrum Bitcoin wallet was one thing i did see as an advantage, but as my bitcoin spends next to no time in my wallet and gets washed threw a hidden service before being transfer to SR, i didn't think there was anything traceable there.

As for Tails wiping the memory upon shutdown, i believe this is a feature of any Linux live cd / usb.

As for the last part of your comment that worries me, enough to switch.

Think tails is the way forward then.

Thanks for the advice.

Then where do you keep your change from BTC transactions? Hopefully not on an online wallet. Just search for "Instawallet hacked" "TorWallet scam" or any other of the online wallet fiascos to see why it's a really bad idea. Traceable isn't the point of using electrum on LiveUSB, it's having complete control over your money that is.

Perhaps, I haven't used any other Linux Live CD besides Tails.

Well glad I could help mitigate your online risk.

Good choice. There are plenty of HOWTO's in this sub-forum regarding Tails to help you get started. Let me know if you have any questions/concerns about the configuration.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Pure Red Eye on June 13, 2013, 08:55 pm
I plan my BTC purchases, so the amount of coin i have, is never much over the amount i need to pay. I am happy to let 0.02 BTC sit in my Desktop wallet( Bitcoin QT), normally what happens is the BTC i have left from my purchase ends up paying the fee to wash the next load of BTC.

I have never used an online wallet and have heard its a bad idea.

I shouldn't have to much trouble with tails, I'm just hoping the GUI is nice and friendly, first time i downloaded a live USB it was a LUI i didn't have a clue what was going on, thought I'd entered the matrix. :)
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Just Chipper on June 13, 2013, 09:43 pm
I plan my BTC purchases, so the amount of coin i have, is never much over the amount i need to pay. I am happy to let 0.02 BTC sit in my Desktop wallet( Bitcoin QT), normally what happens is the BTC i have left from my purchase ends up paying the fee to wash the next load of BTC.

I have never used an online wallet and have heard its a bad idea.

I shouldn't have to much trouble with tails, I'm just hoping the GUI is nice and friendly, first time i downloaded a live USB it was a LUI i didn't have a clue what was going on, thought I'd entered the matrix. :)

Bitcoin-QT is fine. Although I prefer having the BTC on the USB vs my default OS for plausible deniability.

Good man.

It uses Gnome 3 for the GUI. I'm not sure what DE you were using on your Ubuntu LiveCD but Gnome is extremely user friendly.

Haha. Yea I'd be just as lost honestly.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: iLoveTaffy on June 13, 2013, 09:52 pm
Tails is AMAZING. I LOVE it so much. It's my favorite OS period. I like it more than OS X (except Mavericks, nothing beats that lol), Windows 7 or 8, and any other Linux distro I have tried. Lovelovelove it.

It's incredibly easy to install, and keeping your bitcoins, literally in your pocket, is awesome. Enjoy it, man. :)
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Just Chipper on June 13, 2013, 10:13 pm
Tails is AMAZING. I LOVE it so much. It's my favorite OS period. I like it more than OS X (except Mavericks, nothing beats that lol), Windows 7 or 8, and any other Linux distro I have tried. Lovelovelove it.

It's incredibly easy to install, and keeping your bitcoins, literally in your pocket, is awesome. Enjoy it, man. :)

You'd probably like Debian Wheezy. Tails is a locked down Debian distro. Ever since switching to Debian I never looked back.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: PerPETualMOtion on June 13, 2013, 10:39 pm
I use several OS: Liberte, Tails, Ubuntu, Mint, Windows. I enjoy the exploration and learning curve. It sounds like you have it under control. Ubuntu is a great, user-friendly system with the punch that Linux carries if you take the time to learn the security and performance of Linux. Ubuntu forums (ask Ubuntu) have all your answers--most of the time.

USB-bootable OSes are the way to go for security--reducing the storage of critical information. I recommend a third USB for backing up BTC wallets, stored somewhere discrete, and of course, encrypted. As a low cost buyer, you pass under the radar of the Feds, but that doesn't mean these things don't get passed along to local LE. So never let your guard down.

Bitcointalk.org is a great resource for securing BTC, but as with every forum, there is a lot of hair-brained ideas. I am guilty of this as well, but I try not to post when I'm in an unhelpful mood.

Good Luck.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: iLoveTaffy on June 13, 2013, 10:49 pm
Tails is AMAZING. I LOVE it so much. It's my favorite OS period. I like it more than OS X (except Mavericks, nothing beats that lol), Windows 7 or 8, and any other Linux distro I have tried. Lovelovelove it.

It's incredibly easy to install, and keeping your bitcoins, literally in your pocket, is awesome. Enjoy it, man. :)

You'd probably like Debian Wheezy. Tails is a locked down Debian distro. Ever since switching to Debian I never looked back.

I'll try it out. I use Fedora myself...
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Reggie594 on June 14, 2013, 12:12 am
What is wrong with just running Windows?
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: iLoveTaffy on June 14, 2013, 12:16 am
What is wrong with just running Windows?

A Live USB offers far more security and plausible deniability than simply using Windows with the Tor Browser.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Reggie594 on June 14, 2013, 12:28 am
A Live USB offers far more security and plausible deniability than simply using Windows with the Tor Browser.

Is that not for vendors, can't see LE scanning a computer over a personal amount of drugs.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: iLoveTaffy on June 14, 2013, 12:53 am
A Live USB offers far more security and plausible deniability than simply using Windows with the Tor Browser.

Is that not for vendors, can't see LE scanning a computer over a personal amount of drugs.

Sure, risk your freedom simply because you didn't want to take the time to create a Live USB. That's your prerogative.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: astor on June 14, 2013, 02:18 am
now as soon as i shut down/restart and take out the USB, TOR/PGP4USB will no longer be installed. For me this is not a pain in the ass as they take 5 minutes to reinstall.

Except you lose your PGP key unless you backed it up somewhere. You can enable a persistent volume with the Ubuntu Live CD, but it won't be encrypted by default. It may be possible to do some LUKS/dm-crypt magic on it, but I'm not sure.

I think it's easier just to use Tails.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: astor on June 14, 2013, 02:20 am
Tails is AMAZING. I LOVE it so much. It's my favorite OS period. I like it more than OS X (except Mavericks, nothing beats that lol), Windows 7 or 8, and any other Linux distro I have tried. Lovelovelove it.

I tried Windows 8 today for the first time for an extended period of time. I'm a pretty technically inclined person, but this was me:

http://mlkshk.com/r/97VP

Fuck that shit. Why is everyone -- Windows, Gnome, Unity -- hellbent on throwing away 30 years of desktop metaphors that worked?
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on June 14, 2013, 02:28 am
Tails is AMAZING. I LOVE it so much. It's my favorite OS period. I like it more than OS X (except Mavericks, nothing beats that lol), Windows 7 or 8, and any other Linux distro I have tried. Lovelovelove it.

I tried Windows 8 today for the first time for an extended period of time. I'm a pretty technically inclined person, but this was me:

http://mlkshk.com/r/97VP

Fuck that shit. Why is everyone -- Windows, Gnome, Unity -- hellbent on throwing away 30 years of desktop metaphors that worked?

Nightcrawler and I completely agree.  We absolutely hate Windows 8.Windows 8!  Fuck that metro garbage!  And Gnome 3, psshhh ::)
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: iLoveTaffy on June 14, 2013, 02:33 am
now as soon as i shut down/restart and take out the USB, TOR/PGP4USB will no longer be installed. For me this is not a pain in the ass as they take 5 minutes to reinstall.

Except you lose your PGP key unless you backed it up somewhere. You can enable a persistent volume with the Ubuntu Live CD, but it won't be encrypted by default. It may be possible to do some LUKS/dm-crypt magic on it, but I'm not sure.

I think it's easier just to use Tails.

Exactly. Everyone should be using tails. It's so fugging easy that I have no idea why so many people don't use it. YOU'RE BUYING DRUGS ONLINE.

Protect yourself!
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Pure Red Eye on June 14, 2013, 09:28 am
Except you lose your PGP key unless you backed it up somewhere. You can enable a persistent volume with the Ubuntu Live CD, but it won't be encrypted by default.

As i said, I'm a buyer, I need to decrypt messages. Creating a new public key every time i need to send personal info is no bother at all.

If you have no persistent volume you have no need to encrypt it.

Ive created a tails USB, haven't used it yet as i need to clean my HDD, which is first thing on the agenda for today. Then i think i will use Ubuntu as my main OS.


http://mlkshk.com/r/97VP


That made me laugh.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Reggie594 on June 14, 2013, 01:32 pm
Sure, risk your freedom simply because you didn't want to take the time to create a Live USB. That's your prerogative.

Well i don't think I'm risking Freedom, i buy small quantities of weed. Hardly worth getting the forensic team round to scan my pc over. I could understand if i bought a lot on a regular basis. I'm sure if I'm ever caught getting packages to my address, i will get no more than a warning(maybe a fine). My freedom will be in tact.

Oh Btw i only buy domestic so they cant do me for smuggling drugs either.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Just Chipper on June 14, 2013, 02:52 pm
What is wrong with just running Windows?

Too many problems to list.

Is that not for vendors, can't see LE scanning a computer over a personal amount of drugs.

It's for everyone. Well if you get a controlled delivery they know you ordered the drugs from somewhere right? So what's the first thing they're going to do? Search your computer and phone for who and where you ordered it from. And if you have a computer with SR traffic on it that's checkmate.

Sure, risk your freedom simply because you didn't want to take the time to create a Live USB.

You can lead a horse to water...

Well i don't think I'm risking Freedom.
Hardly worth getting the forensic team round to scan my pc over.
I'm sure if I'm ever caught getting packages to my address, i will get no more than a warning(maybe a fine). My freedom will be in tact.
Btw i only buy domestic so they cant do me for smuggling drugs either.


Well I hope your opinion changes.
It would take a tech maybe an hour to determine you had ordered from SR, no forensic team involved.
Warning's usually come from customs. More than likely a controlled delivery if it happened.
Burying your head in the sand isn't that great of a security policy.
Where did you get that idea? Using the Postal Service to ship drugs is a felony, domestic or international.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: crystal on June 14, 2013, 03:04 pm
Another solution is to create your own debian based live cd (or virtual machine) with strong firewall rules, I feel like there are more chances for a distro like tails to be 'backdoored' than debian (bigger user base, more 'tested'...).

Anyway I wonder what's better: live cd (direct access to hardware) or visualization (can protect you from the software getting too much information 'bout your hardware)...

Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Just Chipper on June 14, 2013, 03:20 pm
Another solution is to create your own debian based live cd (or virtual machine) with strong firewall rules, I feel like there are more chances for a distro like tails to be 'backdoored' than debian (bigger user base, more 'tested'...).

Anyway I wonder what's better: live cd (direct access to hardware) or visualization (can protect you from the software getting too much information 'bout your hardware)...

Well what devs do you think are going to be more security conscious? Also which user base is going to be actively monitoring for backdoors more? The everyday Debian users or the guys rocking the tin-foil hats?

Why not both? I use a LiveUSB through virtualbox. Best of both worlds.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: kmfkewm on June 14, 2013, 03:46 pm
I think Qubes is the best OS for desktop users, hardened Gentoo looks nice for servers. I would use Qubes over Tails or Liberte any day, but it does meet a different set of goals kind of. Tails when I last looked at it was focused on being a mobile, portable, non-persistent OS for use on a laptop at a coffee shop or similar. It had the primary goal of leaving no forensically recoverable traces behind when you were done using it, and indeed to leave no traces behind at all. Now it has persistence and it is more of a light weight portable security oriented OS from what I can gather. Liberte was pretty similar last I checked, although based on hardened Gentoo, including a unique messaging system and with persistence from the get go. Ubuntu is just a regular Linux distro, based on Debian, blah blah blah. Qubes is a persistent OS (ie: not live) and it wasn't really designed with portability in mind (ie: not meant to be booted from a CD or flash memory stick). Qubes does put a large emphasis on security though, primarily security via isolation. It does this by letting you set security domains, and then by isolating all of your launched applications in a per-security-domain Xen virtual machine. It even isolates your network card and USB hubs, and supports isolation of any hardware that supports it, provided that your CPU has IOMMU or VT-d flags anyway. It has built in systems for best practices, like the ability to quickly open files in completely isolated disposable virtual machines, the ability to quickly set up isolated Tor routing for very strong protection from leaking your IP address or having it stolen by hackers, a state of the art PDF sanitizing system, an isolated GPG system for protecting private keys and plaintexts, etc.

Qubes does have some disadvantages though. The primary issue I have with it is that because it uses Xen virtualization as its back end it doesn't provide ASLR for any of its virtual machines. That means that it is potentially easier to hack an application running on Qubes than it is to hack an application running on something like hardened Gentoo. On the other hand it is a lot harder for an attacker to spread from one application to another. So on hardened Gentoo ASLR might make it harder for a hacker to pwn you via a vulnerability in Firefox, but if they do pwn you then you are totally screwed unless you have layered additional security via isolation mechanisms on top of the default configuration. With Qubes it might be a bit easier for an attacker to pwn you via a vulnerability in Firefox, but they wont be able to get to your external IP address because you will be using Qubes preconfigured isolated Tor, and they wont be able to steal your private GPG key or spy on your plaintexts because you will be using Qubes pre-configured isolated GPG. On hardened Gentoo it might be harder for an attacker to pwn you with an exploit in a pdf file, but on Qubes even if they pwn you with such an exploit it wont matter because you will have opened the pdf in a disposable vm, or you will have used Qubes pdf sanitizing technique to neutralize the exploit prior to viewing the content of the pdf. Oh yeah not to mention that unless you are using isolation techniques yourself, if any windowed application is pwnt with hardened Gentoo the attacker can likely keylog everything you type, but Qubes would only let them keylog everything in the security domain that they compromised.

Right now the biggest detriment to Qubes security is the lack of Xen support for stuff like ASLR. hopefully over time Xen will support security features like ASLR, and then Qubes will be even more secure. I definitely think Qubes looks like the best choice for a desktop (as in desktop environment, not desktop machine) user though. Honestly I have never particularly been a fan of either Tails or Liberte, they are neat but I don't think they really are particularly exceptional. Qubes is definitely exceptional and it is on the cutting edge of the security via isolation school of thought, and extremely innovative.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: kmfkewm on June 14, 2013, 03:51 pm
Another solution is to create your own debian based live cd (or virtual machine) with strong firewall rules, I feel like there are more chances for a distro like tails to be 'backdoored' than debian (bigger user base, more 'tested'...).

Anyway I wonder what's better: live cd (direct access to hardware) or visualization (can protect you from the software getting too much information 'bout your hardware)...

Well what devs do you think are going to be more security conscious? Also which user base is going to be actively monitoring for backdoors more? The everyday Debian users or the guys rocking the tin-foil hats?

Why not both? I use a LiveUSB through virtualbox. Best of both worlds.

Tails is sponsored by Tor Project and Liberte has a step by step tutorial on how to make it yourself.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: radi8power on June 14, 2013, 04:49 pm
now as soon as i shut down/restart and take out the USB, TOR/PGP4USB will no longer be installed. For me this is not a pain in the ass as they take 5 minutes to reinstall.

Except you lose your PGP key unless you backed it up somewhere. You can enable a persistent volume with the Ubuntu Live CD, but it won't be encrypted by default. It may be possible to do some LUKS/dm-crypt magic on it, but I'm not sure.

I think it's easier just to use Tails.
But if all OP wants to do with PGP is encrypt for others and never decrypt he will be OK without his own key.

How important is MAC spoofing? I understand this is another thing using Tails/Liberte does for us.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: crystal on June 14, 2013, 05:02 pm
Another solution is to create your own debian based live cd (or virtual machine) with strong firewall rules, I feel like there are more chances for a distro like tails to be 'backdoored' than debian (bigger user base, more 'tested'...).

Anyway I wonder what's better: live cd (direct access to hardware) or visualization (can protect you from the software getting too much information 'bout your hardware)...

Well what devs do you think are going to be more security conscious? Also which user base is going to be actively monitoring for backdoors more? The everyday Debian users or the guys rocking the tin-foil hats?

Why not both? I use a LiveUSB through virtualbox. Best of both worlds.

Yeah, that can be a good option... if you trust your main operating system (and of course hardware) not to be keylogged or whatever :)

@kmfkewm: Qubes seems really interesting, will check that out, thanks!
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: astor on June 14, 2013, 05:11 pm
But if all OP wants to do with PGP is encrypt for others and never decrypt he will be OK without his own key.

Yeah, I get that.

How important is MAC spoofing? I understand this is another thing using Tails/Liberte does for us.

It's only useful if you're accessing public wifi, but that also depends on the circumstances. If you walk into a Starbucks, it seems pointless to spoof your MAC address, since the people in the store know you are there. You are probably recorded on cameras too. If you're sitting outside somewhere, or you're in a very large crowd and unlikely to be noticed, or the people who own the wifi don't know you are accessing it, then it would be more useful.

At home it's pretty much useless, especially if you go through a home router, since only your router sees your MAC address.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: radi8power on June 14, 2013, 05:18 pm
thanks!
and dang are we lucky to have such knowledgeable and helpful people here :)
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: iLoveTaffy on June 14, 2013, 06:16 pm
Another solution is to create your own debian based live cd (or virtual machine) with strong firewall rules, I feel like there are more chances for a distro like tails to be 'backdoored' than debian (bigger user base, more 'tested'...).

Anyway I wonder what's better: live cd (direct access to hardware) or visualization (can protect you from the software getting too much information 'bout your hardware)...

Well what devs do you think are going to be more security conscious? Also which user base is going to be actively monitoring for backdoors more? The everyday Debian users or the guys rocking the tin-foil hats?

Why not both? I use a LiveUSB through virtualbox. Best of both worlds.

Thisthisthis! I like you, man (no homo).

People, I don't care what you're ordering, a gram of a weed, half a gram of kief, a kg of cocaine, USE TAILS, USE PGP, PROTECT YOUR SHIT. It's a FELONY REGARDLESS.

Don't fuck your future! It's so easy to set up that it's pointless not to. There is NO reason. An hour or two out of your day (because I KNOW you're going to procrastinate) and BOOM, simple set up. All you do is plug in, type a password for your encrypted persistent drive, and voila! You're using a Tails Live USB and you're far more protected than you were before.

Do it through a virtualbox and you're even better off. So many things you can be doing to COMPLETELY fuck off LE. Yet so many of us aren't doing it.

Why!?
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Just Chipper on June 14, 2013, 06:36 pm
Yeah, that can be a good option... if you trust your main operating system (and of course hardware) not to be keylogged or whatever :)

@kmfkewm: Qubes seems really interesting, will check that out, thanks!

I do as my main OS is a hardened headless Linux distro with only a hypervisor installed and I've owned my keyboard/mouse for almost a decade now.

I am definitely going to give Qubes a try though as kmfkewm has provided some great insight into its pros/cons vs other host/hypervisor combos.

People, I don't care what you're ordering, a gram of a weed, half a gram of kief, a kg of cocaine, USE TAILS, USE PGP, PROTECT YOUR SHIT. It's a FELONY REGARDLESS.

QFT.

I understand how daunting properly setting up a secure system can be to an un-technical person but it's definitely worth learning. Tails is about as convenient as you're going to get for an everyday buyer to stay secure. I mean you burn it to a CD or USB then reboot the PC.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Reggie594 on June 14, 2013, 11:31 pm
I understand how daunting properly setting up a secure system can be to an un-technical person but it's definitely worth learning. Tails is about as convenient as you're going to get for an everyday buyer to stay secure. I mean you burn it to a CD or USB then reboot the PC.

Daunting is an understatement,  surely if this is so essential for security you would be able to buy one of these Tails things?
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: WingWong on June 15, 2013, 12:09 am

Do it through a virtualbox and you're even better off. So many things you can be doing to COMPLETELY fuck off LE. Yet so many of us aren't doing it.

Do you mean set up the USB via VM or run TAILS in native OS with VM? I assume the former?
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: touchthesky on June 15, 2013, 12:59 am
i just installed backtrack on VB through a liveCD-ISO.

isn't that good enough :(
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Just Chipper on June 17, 2013, 02:54 pm
Daunting is an understatement,  surely if this is so essential for security you would be able to buy one of these Tails things?

Oh you can buy a preconfigured bootable USB right here on SR. But let me ask you this: How do you know the person you bought it from wasn't working with LE? How do you know that person didn't put a keylogger on it? How do you know it's even what they say it is?

If you put your security in the hands of someone else you are at their mercy. The only true way to stay secure is to implement the security yourself. And regularly check the updates on the products you use Tor, PGP, etc to verify there's no vulnerabilites. Noone is going to keep you safe but yourself.

Do you mean set up the USB via VM or run TAILS in native OS with VM? I assume the former?

It means having a Tails LiveUSB that you boot within your native through virtualbox.

i just installed backtrack on VB through a liveCD-ISO.

isn't that good enough :(

Backtrack is merely Ubuntu with pentesting applications installed. I would recommend Tails or Liberte as they are designed with personal security and plausible deniability in mind.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: eddiethegun on June 17, 2013, 06:25 pm
I've always preferred Liberte to TAILS for permanent hard disk installs. (TAILS is useless for anything other than LiveCD/USB use).

But the sad fact is Liberte is no longer being maintained, and as-is it includes some outdated packages that make it risky.

I'm working on a custom updated build (the Liberte build system is on github) for my own use. But that's more of a pet project.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on June 17, 2013, 06:39 pm
I've always preferred Liberte to TAILS for permanent hard disk installs. (TAILS is useless for anything other than LiveCD/USB use).

But the sad fact is Liberte is no longer being maintained, and as-is it includes some outdated packages that make it risky.

I'm working on a custom updated build (the Liberte build system is on github) for my own use. But that's more of a pet project.

TAILS doesn't use persistent entry guards which make it more risky.  What needs updated on Liberte?  It has no problems that I am aware of but there could be.  Please fill me in.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: eddiethegun on June 17, 2013, 07:26 pm
I've always preferred Liberte to TAILS for permanent hard disk installs. (TAILS is useless for anything other than LiveCD/USB use).

But the sad fact is Liberte is no longer being maintained, and as-is it includes some outdated packages that make it risky.

I'm working on a custom updated build (the Liberte build system is on github) for my own use. But that's more of a pet project.

TAILS doesn't use persistent entry guards which make it more risky.  What needs updated on Liberte?  It has no problems that I am aware of but there could be.  Please fill me in.

The Liberte site, http://dee.su is down but the forums are still up. Here's a recent thread discussing some issues (old Java and kernel):
https://forum.dee.su/topic/is-this-project-abandoned

The security issues are not yet that serious, but if new package updates aren't being pushed it could become that way. And there are plenty of bug-fixes that ought be taken care of if it were actively maintained. WiFi issues have been a hassle for me (unstable broadcom drivers).

I like to run a dual boot setup with Liberte. I've booted to an on-disk TAILS .iso image (there's hacks to get a more standard permanent install, but they break most of the non-persistance features). Still terribly slow to boot in that configuration.

I could set up a .onion git repo to work on this stuff. I've got a fair number of ideas for an onion-oriented distro based on Liberte... Anyone interested?
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: kmfkewm on June 18, 2013, 01:41 am
I think TAILS supports persistent entry guards now, but it did not the last time I used it so I am not positive.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on June 18, 2013, 01:53 am
I think TAILS supports persistent entry guards now, but it did not the last time I used it so I am not positive.

No :(
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Railgun on June 18, 2013, 02:04 am
I think (and please someone correct me) any use of a linux system in conjunction with a truecrypt hidden volume should be sufficient. 

I say linux over windows simply because the open-source nature and slightly-closer-to-hardware architecture lends less probability for a compromise (trojans etc). 

I say truecrypt hidden volume simply because you may be forced to give up your password. It is MUCH better to give up a password to a bunk "outer" partition in which nothing incriminating lies (for example, put a gay porn or something in it and say you didn't want your wife/gf to know you were homo).  It's trololol and looks as if that is truly what you were hiding.  Having the ghey is not a crime (in most states ::-))
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: kmfkewm on June 18, 2013, 04:44 am
I think TAILS supports persistent entry guards now, but it did not the last time I used it so I am not positive.

No :(

Are you sure? It definitely has persistence now, so I don't see why you cannot have persistent entry guards.

https://tails.boum.org/contribute/design/persistence/
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: astor on June 18, 2013, 04:58 am
When you enable the persistent volume, a bunch of dot files and folders in /home/amnesia get symlinked to the persistent volume.

My guess is -- and this is purely a guess -- that you can't have persistent entry guards because the torrc is in /etc/tor, not /home/amnesia. The latter gets mounted in RAM and can be changed, the former can't be changed to a symlink.


Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: astor on June 18, 2013, 05:02 am
This can be fixed several ways of course, but they are not as trivial as symlinking files and folders that don't exist until you log in, which may be the hold up.
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: SelfSovereignty on June 18, 2013, 05:08 am
Tails is AMAZING. I LOVE it so much. It's my favorite OS period. I like it more than OS X (except Mavericks, nothing beats that lol), Windows 7 or 8, and any other Linux distro I have tried. Lovelovelove it.

I tried Windows 8 today for the first time for an extended period of time. I'm a pretty technically inclined person, but this was me:

http://mlkshk.com/r/97VP

Fuck that shit. Why is everyone -- Windows, Gnome, Unity -- hellbent on throwing away 30 years of desktop metaphors that worked?

Nightcrawler and I completely agree.  We absolutely hate Windows 8.Windows 8!  Fuck that metro garbage!  And Gnome 3, psshhh ::)

astor: yep, totally.  I've gotten used to it though, actually.  It's not bad at all after you install a third-party start menu.

Jack: huh?  Nightcrawler?  Where the fuck is Nightcrawler, I haven't seen him for bloody months?
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: astor on June 18, 2013, 05:14 am
Actually, this seems to be the hold up: https://tails.boum.org/todo/persistence_preset_-_tor/
Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: astor on June 18, 2013, 05:17 am
yep, totally.  I've gotten used to it though, actually.  It's not bad at all after you install a third-party start menu.

Traitor. :)

Actually it's true, when I bothered to spend 15 minutes figuring out how it worked, rather than clicking at random shit like a monkey, it wasn't that bad.

Title: Re: Liberte Vs Tails Vs Ubuntu?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on June 18, 2013, 05:35 am
Nightcrawler and I completely agree.  We absolutely hate Windows 8.Windows 8!  Fuck that metro garbage!  And Gnome 3, psshhh ::)

astor: yep, totally.  I've gotten used to it though, actually.  It's not bad at all after you install a third-party start menu.

Jack: huh?  Nightcrawler?  Where the fuck is Nightcrawler, I haven't seen him for bloody months?

Nightcrawler and I had a nice conversation about Windows and Linux and how we hate the new bullshit sometime within the last month.