Silk Road forums
Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: P2P on May 10, 2013, 11:28 pm
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I really wish I could post this in the proper forum, but unfortunately I don't really have the time/inclination to spam to 50. Maybe I will at some point, though. Either way, I'm glad to do my part to prevent that awful spamming bullshit we had to deal with.
My question here is very basic. I just want to know, basically, how a VPN works. From what I've read, they create an encrypted pipeline to the internet, but what does that mean for security in addition to TOR? The real reason I wanted to get a VPN was so my ISP can't "spy" on what I'm doing on the clearnet, but, more importantly, can't decisively know whether or not I'm using TOR (I have heard ISPs have ways of knowing by simply checking their database records). In this day in age, SR is no longer underground. We have to face facts - LE aren't stupid. If you're using TOR, that in and of itself may be grounds for investigation - maybe not today, but someday. Especially if you have a previous criminal record. So I'm wondering, does this VPN work to prevent my ISP from knowing any of the sites I'm connecting to, and, more importantly, whether or not I'm using TOR?
Thanks for any and all responses.
(Maybe a nice mod will move this to the security section? ;) )
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I really wish I could post this in the proper forum, but unfortunately I don't really have the time/inclination to spam to 50. Maybe I will at some point, though. Either way, I'm glad to do my part to prevent that awful spamming bullshit we had to deal with.
My question here is very basic. I just want to know, basically, how a VPN works. From what I've read, they create an encrypted pipeline to the internet, but what does that mean for security in addition to TOR? The real reason I wanted to get a VPN was so my ISP can't "spy" on what I'm doing on the clearnet, but, more importantly, can't decisively know whether or not I'm using TOR (I have heard ISPs have ways of knowing by simply checking their database records). In this day in age, SR is no longer underground. We have to face facts - LE aren't stupid. If you're using TOR, that in and of itself may be grounds for investigation - maybe not today, but someday. Especially if you have a previous criminal record. So I'm wondering, does this VPN work to prevent my ISP from knowing any of the sites I'm connecting to, and, more importantly, whether or not I'm using TOR?
Thanks for any and all responses.
(Maybe a nice mod will move this to the security section? ;) )
There are already many threads in the Security forum discussing this very topic. It is possible to run Tor through a VPN in order to hide the fact that you're using Tor from your ISP.
Just a few threads I found with a quick search:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=49275
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=45249
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=85322
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=150472
Don't be afraid to use the Search function - that's what it's there for! :) Do the search from inside whichever forum or thread you wish to search through, or to search all of the forums just search from the forum homepage.
Libertas
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There are several discussions about this in the forums just search tor vpn but the best advice if you go this route is to use a vpn like mullvad (there are others but I don't recall them) which accept bitcoin for payment and check their privacy policy to see if they promise not to keep logs, although there's no guarantee of that either.
here is a clearnet link discussing pros and cons of vpns:
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorPlusVPN#you-X-Tor
one forum discussion: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=147608.msg1019915#msg1019915
good luck
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There are several discussions about this in the forums just search tor vpn but the best advice if you go this route is to use a vpn like mullvad (there are others but I don't recall them) which accept bitcoin for payment and check their privacy policy to see if they promise not to keep logs, although there's no guarantee of that either.
here is a clearnet link discussing pros and cons of vpns:
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorPlusVPN#you-X-Tor
one forum discussion: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=147608.msg1019915#msg1019915
good luck
Great first post, way2high! :)
Libertas
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Well i Think That VPN Is Way better Because They Give Protection And stuff but remember that everthing you do on the vpn is logged so yeah thats one magor flaw of a vpn also i dont know what the heck is isp in thee topic thats the internet service provider thats who you pay to get internet
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Well i Think That VPN Is Way better Because They Give Protection And stuff but remember that everthing you do on the vpn is logged so yeah thats one magor flaw of a vpn also i dont know what the heck is isp in thee topic thats the internet service provider thats who you pay to get internet
I think the OP meant it more along the lines of "VPN vs. ISP - Can you beat your ISP from spying on you by using one?"
Libertas
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well i think even if you use vpn your never really safe sure they say that they will spy on on you but they keep logs and stuff also i think that isp will always spy on us because the illegal stuff we people we are doing on the net
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well i think even if you use vpn your never really safe sure they say that they will spy on on you but they keep logs and stuff also i think that isp will always spy on us because the illegal stuff we people we are doing on the net
Some people route Tor through a VPN to stop their ISP from seeing that they're using Tor. In order for the ISP to know, the VPN provider would have to tell them. You cannot trust the VPN provider not to do this, but if you use the right VPN service it's less likely than with others.
Other people route their VPN through Tor so as it's impossible to see that they're using a VPN in the first place, but everybody has their own reasons for their own security setup. ISP's will likely try to spy on their customers more in the future but that is why we have to fight against this internet oppression!!
Libertas
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well i think even if you use vpn your never really safe sure they say that they will spy on on you but they keep logs and stuff also i think that isp will always spy on us because the illegal stuff we people we are doing on the net
Some people route Tor through a VPN to stop their ISP from seeing that they're using Tor. In order for the ISP to know, the VPN provider would have to tell them. You cannot trust the VPN provider not to do this, but if you use the right VPN service it's less likely than with others.
Other people route their VPN through Tor so as it's impossible to see that they're using a VPN in the first place, but everybody has their own reasons for their own security setup. ISP's will likely try to spy on their customers more in the future but that is why we have to fight against this internet oppression!!
Libertas
But What Can We Do Against The Internet oppression nothing because they own it all we can do is try to find a much harder way to stop the isp from spying us
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well i think even if you use vpn your never really safe sure they say that they will spy on on you but they keep logs and stuff also i think that isp will always spy on us because the illegal stuff we people we are doing on the net
Some people route Tor through a VPN to stop their ISP from seeing that they're using Tor. In order for the ISP to know, the VPN provider would have to tell them. You cannot trust the VPN provider not to do this, but if you use the right VPN service it's less likely than with others.
Other people route their VPN through Tor so as it's impossible to see that they're using a VPN in the first place, but everybody has their own reasons for their own security setup. ISP's will likely try to spy on their customers more in the future but that is why we have to fight against this internet oppression!!
Libertas
But What Can We Do Against The Internet oppression nothing because they own it all we can do is try to find a much harder way to stop the isp from spying us
Nobody 'owns' the internet. The ISP may own the cabling infrastructure but the internet is free. And if we want to effect change we can rise up and fight the oppression, stand tall and strong against the thugs that are employed as government enforcers. Learn your rights, and don't allow them to be trod on by the boots of legislative footsoldiers.
Libertas
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Don't be afraid to use the Search function - that's what it's there for! :) Do the search from inside whichever forum or thread you wish to search through, or to search all of the forums just search from the forum homepage.
Is that really true? Searching while viewing a subforum only searches that subforum? Wtf -- no wonder the search results are so goddamn screwy half the time. Why wasn't I informed of this, damn it!
Rawr and stuff :P
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Don't be afraid to use the Search function - that's what it's there for! :) Do the search from inside whichever forum or thread you wish to search through, or to search all of the forums just search from the forum homepage.
Is that really true? Searching while viewing a subforum only searches that subforum? Wtf -- no wonder the search results are so goddamn screwy half the time. Why wasn't I informed of this, damn it!
Rawr and stuff :P
Haha, yeah a lot of people don't seem to be aware of this!
Searching on the homepage will give results from all forums.
Searching within a specific sub-forum will give results from that specific sub-forum.
Searching within a thread will give results from that specific thread.
Simples! ;D
Libertas
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I really wish I could post this in the proper forum, but unfortunately I don't really have the time/inclination to spam to 50. Maybe I will at some point, though. Either way, I'm glad to do my part to prevent that awful spamming bullshit we had to deal with.
My question here is very basic. I just want to know, basically, how a VPN works. From what I've read, they create an encrypted pipeline to the internet, but what does that mean for security in addition to TOR? The real reason I wanted to get a VPN was so my ISP can't "spy" on what I'm doing on the clearnet, but, more importantly, can't decisively know whether or not I'm using TOR (I have heard ISPs have ways of knowing by simply checking their database records). In this day in age, SR is no longer underground. We have to face facts - LE aren't stupid. If you're using TOR, that in and of itself may be grounds for investigation - maybe not today, but someday. Especially if you have a previous criminal record. So I'm wondering, does this VPN work to prevent my ISP from knowing any of the sites I'm connecting to, and, more importantly, whether or not I'm using TOR?
Thanks for any and all responses.
(Maybe a nice mod will move this to the security section? ;) )
There are already many threads in the Security forum discussing this very topic. It is possible to run Tor through a VPN in order to hide the fact that you're using Tor from your ISP.
Just a few threads I found with a quick search:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=49275
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=45249
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=85322
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=150472
Don't be afraid to use the Search function - that's what it's there for! :) Do the search from inside whichever forum or thread you wish to search through, or to search all of the forums just search from the forum homepage.
Libertas
Thanks Libertas. And sorry, I always UTSE. I did actually type in "vpn," "isp," etc. but I did not come across a thread that answered my question. But these are fantastic, thank you.
Also, from my previous searches I heard mullvad was the best and that they don't keep logs. Can anyone corroborate this?
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I really wish I could post this in the proper forum, but unfortunately I don't really have the time/inclination to spam to 50. Maybe I will at some point, though. Either way, I'm glad to do my part to prevent that awful spamming bullshit we had to deal with.
My question here is very basic. I just want to know, basically, how a VPN works. From what I've read, they create an encrypted pipeline to the internet, but what does that mean for security in addition to TOR? The real reason I wanted to get a VPN was so my ISP can't "spy" on what I'm doing on the clearnet, but, more importantly, can't decisively know whether or not I'm using TOR (I have heard ISPs have ways of knowing by simply checking their database records). In this day in age, SR is no longer underground. We have to face facts - LE aren't stupid. If you're using TOR, that in and of itself may be grounds for investigation - maybe not today, but someday. Especially if you have a previous criminal record. So I'm wondering, does this VPN work to prevent my ISP from knowing any of the sites I'm connecting to, and, more importantly, whether or not I'm using TOR?
Thanks for any and all responses.
(Maybe a nice mod will move this to the security section? ;) )
There are already many threads in the Security forum discussing this very topic. It is possible to run Tor through a VPN in order to hide the fact that you're using Tor from your ISP.
Just a few threads I found with a quick search:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=49275
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=45249
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=85322
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=150472
Don't be afraid to use the Search function - that's what it's there for! :) Do the search from inside whichever forum or thread you wish to search through, or to search all of the forums just search from the forum homepage.
Libertas
Thanks Libertas. And sorry, I always UTSE. I did actually type in "vpn," "isp," etc. but I did not come across a thread that answered my question. But these are fantastic, thank you.
Also, from my previous searches I heard mullvad was the best and that they don't keep logs. Can anyone corroborate this?
No problem at all! :)
As a mod I personally don't want to recommend any VPN provider in case others take that up as me (or even Silk Road) endorsing them. All I'll say is that you can't really be sure that your VPN provider isn't going to be keeping logs. Whichever one you want to go with, you should ALWAYS use a VPN provider that you can pay anonymously (with Bitcoin for instance), and never let the rest of your security drop just because you'll be using a VPN.
Hopefully others can chime in here with their own VPN experiences, but go have a browse through the first few pages of the Security forum and you might find a few recommendations etc.
Libertas
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I've used tor since 2004. I don't see much correlation between it and SR myself.
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In response to the OP, the use of a VPN encrypts your connection from your router (if implemented at the router level), or your computer (if the VPN software is installed directly on your computer), to the VPN provider. The provider then provides an exit node, whereby your connection will be out in the open if not using some form of end-to-end encryption, such as SSL. So even the lousy VPN providers will encrypt your connection from your point of access to the provider's network- but they'll still know where you're going on the internet because you can bet your ass that they keep logs. The good thing is that a hundred other people could be using the same node, making sniffing for a correlation a nightmare for any snoops (LE or otherwise).
I strongly recommend the use of VPN. You just have to choose one that meets all of the following conditions:
a) they don't keep any logs at all, or log for a maximum of less than a week for diagnostic and anti-spamming purposes only (self explanatory)
b) they accept Bitcoin as a form of payment (total anonymity: no one will know who you are as a customer to begin with)
c) they have a guide for setup on a router (absolutely vital if you want all of your computers and devices behind the VPN)
d) they aren't headquarted in your country (always diversify)
e) they offer openvpn (none of that pptp or l2tp garbage, please)
I can also add good feedback and rep online by people who are extremely concerned about protecting their privacy and anonymity. The same goes for their efforts to circumvent new ways of government blocking and interception, such as what China is doing right now. They've been blocking Tor for more than a couple of years now and have found ways to kill VPN connections by looking for OpenVPN "handshakes", which is what the protocol is doing at the IP level to make a connection. Some providers are looking at tunneling OpenVPN over SSH or SSL, which makes it highly impractical to block (they have to kill all non-VPN SSH and SSL traffic)
TorrentFreak on clearnet has a couple of posts about VPN providers which respect privacy. Plenty of reviews there, complete with a Q&A from the TF writers.
One last thing: using Tor over a logless VPN, paid with Bitcoin and maintained with a Tormail address, is the gold standard of internet anonymity and privacy. It can only be defeated locally by physical intervention.
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Even if your ISP knows that you are using tor, there is nothing illegal in that.
A VPN would make it so that your ISP doesn't know what you are browsing, but the VPN provider would know... and that might be worse. Even the VPN who say they don't keep logs most likely keep logs to deal with potential abuses (child porn and the like)..
TOR with a decent firewall (like Tails has for example) would be the perfect solution IMHO.. It's free and you can also browse the clearnet with it, making that your isp doesn't know what the shit you are doing online...