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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: SelfSovereignty on April 26, 2013, 11:48 am

Title: Brain zaps
Post by: SelfSovereignty on April 26, 2013, 11:48 am
There's something I've gotten lately that fucking terrified me at first.  It comes and goes now.  I thought it was a sign that my health was declining much faster than I thought, and while that may still be true, apparently this particular thing is nothing to worry about.  Or at least, nobody knows it to be a Very Bad Thing yet.  Some people get them without medication or drug use of any kind, apparently.

People like to call them "brain zaps."  Maybe you all know about it.  I certainly didn't.  It's strongly associated with substance withdrawal, particularly the SSRI medications.  It's not just withdrawal that does it though, and those certainly had nothing to do with me.  For me it happens... well, it happens all the time now, both during use and during withdrawal.  It initially was only during heavy use.  Goes away for a week or two, then comes back.  Weird stuff.

Google it or something some time if you get flashes of... I don't know, hard to describe.  Intense dizziness for just a second, that's associated with something like a chill running through you.  It was really terrifying at first, I mean I think my entire body twitches and for a split second I get an intense sense of panic as though I just accidentally stepped off a cliff but didn't look down until that moment; the first time it happened I thought I had overdosed and was about to go into seizures and never wake up.

There's no known scientific explanation for them that I'm aware of; there's a lot of theories and things that apparently are associated with them, but nobody has any idea what the causal mechanism really is (that I can find).  They seem to be strongly associated with serotonin downregulation, and possibly GABA downregulation and NMDA upregulation.  Take it with a grain of salt though, I have nothing to cite but random internet searches.

Anyway, if it starts happening to you people or is happening, don't be like me and get all scared for a few months: we'll probably end up with dementia sooner than most people, some think, but c'mon... how many of us are really going to be alive at that age eating western food *and* taking all these drugs?  Just one of those is enough to finish off most people...  ::)

While I'm on the topic, apparently some new numbers suggest that it isn't about 10-20% of people who experience sexual dysfunction on SSRI meds.  It may be as high as fucking 60%, if Wikipedia and its source are to be believed.  Lexapro is the least harmful one it seems, but they can all cause long term withdrawal syndrome.  There's apparently cases of it lasting years or indefinitely.  Those SSRIs really are fucking questionable...
Title: Re: Brain zaps: I guess I'm okay after all
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on April 26, 2013, 11:52 am
+1 SS

Glad to hear your ok.
Title: Re: Brain zaps: I guess I'm okay after all
Post by: Pillows on April 26, 2013, 12:43 pm
There's no known scientific explanation for them that I'm aware of; there's a lot of theories and things that apparently are associated with them, but nobody has any idea what the causal mechanism really is (that I can find).  They seem to be strongly associated with serotonin downregulation, and possibly GABA downregulation and NMDA upregulation.  Take it with a grain of salt though, I have nothing to cite but random internet searches.

You're a pretty heavy meth user and meth downregulates your seretonin system, no? I would definitely say they're related somehow, maybe not in that way but meth is pretty nasty on your brain, I would say they're definitely related

Glad you're feeling better tho!
Title: Re: Brain zaps: I guess I'm okay after all
Post by: SelfSovereignty on April 26, 2013, 02:38 pm
Oh, I definitely think it's from my drug use.  Definitely.  I guess that one sentence was misleading, wasn't it: what I meant is that it can't be from SSRI antidepressants, because I wasn't taking any :)
Title: Re: Brain zaps: I guess I'm okay after all
Post by: onionologist on April 26, 2013, 03:01 pm
I get brain zaps from ssri discontinuation. Every time. I would say it's linked to serotonin but I am not a neuro person.

I would say when shit starts getting funky it's time to take a step back and reconsider ones health.

I would still be concerned about the effects, especially whereas I could not have pinpointed them as to why they were happening.

Have a break bro...clear your head. Get on some vitamins and shit, get your body back to ship shape...it will thank you.

Hope it works out the best-

-onion-
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: SelfSovereignty on April 26, 2013, 03:17 pm
Thanks guys; I do appreciate the well wishes and all, but I actually posted about it because I could not for the life of me find anything when I just described the symptoms.  I scoured the internet and found nothing -- now maybe I was just being retarded, but either way, I'm fine.  I'm just trying to save anybody else this happens to from freaking the fuck out like I did the first time.  I mean seriously... a goddamn brain zap?  Sounds like something you'd heal with pyramid power and magnetic bracelets  :o
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: onionologist on April 26, 2013, 05:40 pm
Stay well SS. :) Keep close watch on your body and what it tells you.

You seem like a logical person with a decent head on their shoulders. Glad you overcame this and hope you can prevent it from happening again.

-onion-
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on April 26, 2013, 06:08 pm
My mother takes alot of meds, anti depressants and so on, not sure what other kinds, but kind of alot of meds.. and she has described these 'brian jolts/zaps' to me in the recent past. I agreed it was her meds, and having an irregular dose regiment.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: sofish89 on April 26, 2013, 07:05 pm
What do these "brain zaps" feel like? Can you give more info about them
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: WolfmanJack87 on April 26, 2013, 07:36 pm
I know EXACTLY what your talking about. It took me like 6 months to finally find out what they were from. Doctors that I saw even had no idea what I was talking about. I've been on SSRI's for about 2 years and I get them if I don't take my meds after about 2 days. They are horrible and every time you look left or right, or rapidly change focus to something in your periphial vision it feels as though for a split second your brain goes absolutely haywire and electricity runs to your fingertips. My gf at the time also said I would twitch uncontrollably in my sleep during brain zap attacks. Only a few things I know have any affect on alleviating them.
1. Alcohol makes them WORSE
2. As an occasional opiate user, getting high would make them go away for about a day
3. DXM
As a sufferer for a long time from these (which is why I started tapering off the SSRI's) the BEST thing that helped me get rid of them was low doses of DXM. If they are really really bothering you, go grab some Robitussin gelcaps or some Coricidin Cough & Cold and take like 4-5 capsules or around 100-150mg. DXM must have some action with seratonin. That should be enough to alleviate them, and you can slowly taper off those caps your taking a day. Or you could take a whole bunch and get high, but then you'll be back in the exact same spot 2 days later.

It's definitely from the drugs though. Anything that fucks with your seratonin will give you these (if you're one of the people prone to them) Anyways, hope that helps. And good luck brother, I know how debilitating they can be...
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: serotonin on April 26, 2013, 08:21 pm
They do suck. I was on Lexapro for about 8 months and the W/D gave me body zaps--I'd feel static electricity radiating out towards my extremities. 8 months isn't very long, so mine didn't last but a week or two. In your situation, I don't think more drugs is what you need to get your brain to regulate itself (so no DXM), but you could perhaps try 5-HTP? It's an amino acid derivative and a precursor to serotonin. Maybe try googling 5-HTP & brain zaps to see if anyone else has tried it for this purpose and found it to attenuate their zaps. Good luck!
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: chil on April 26, 2013, 08:33 pm
Scary stuff. I hope you'll recover from this, SS. 
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: nitpi950 on April 26, 2013, 08:40 pm
I get the zaps when I forget to take my meds for a couple days or so - I don't really mind them, they actually feel kinda nice to me. I haven't noticed any sexual effects except when I was first starting to take them, but in any case I wouldn't be able to survive without them. It's true that there doesn't appear to be any good explanation for them but I wouldn't worry about it - I mean, look at all the sensory effects produced by otherwise benign substances like LSD.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: thernabulax on April 26, 2013, 08:52 pm
I used to get brain zaps (perfect word for it too) every time I started WDing from tramadol (mild pain killer that also induces serotonin release, it's like an 8-in-1 drug made by the Germans in the 70s) I knew the WDs were starting, every time I moved my eyes to the left or right it would especially trigger the zaps. After the initial shock of "wtf is this?" it was actually semi-pleasant because they gave me mini-buzzes that felt kinda nice.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: bruzzcuzz on April 27, 2013, 04:49 am
fukn took lexapro to bring me out of a meth slump but now 10 days later i feel like having a huge wank over hi-res images of shards. just waNNA hit the pipe sooo bad..
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: oldtoby on April 29, 2013, 04:02 am
Aw, SelfSov, I'm really sorry to hear this.

I'd never heard of the brain zaps until these forums, and actually, thought this was the post I'd seen rejuvenated with a new comment. Have you searched these forums with that specific term "brain zap"/"brain zaps"? I know that there is at least one other post on this and probably more.

I went off SSRI and did not experience this, thank the gods.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: SelfSovereignty on April 29, 2013, 05:22 am
No, I didn't do a search: I tend to treat the search function as though it doesn't even exist, frankly -- it's that "your last search was less than 5 seconds ago," or whatever.  Drives me absolutely mad.  I suppose my post was redundant then, huh... should have just bumped the one you're talking about.  I guess the world will keep turning even with one superfluous little post...  ::)
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: oldtoby on April 29, 2013, 05:42 am
Hmm. Actually about a dozen references caught in a search I just did (search results seem to be really variable on the forums; another time I may turn up only a couple of hits, and later pages).

Most frequent mentions due to: SSRI withdrawal (especially cold turkey) and overuse of MDMA. Honourable mentions go to Tramadol, 4-mmc, and 4-MEC. It does not sound pleasant. Didn't run across accounts of healing/getting over it, or what can help. I would think the usual post-serotonin depletion regimes might be helpful but I'm just shooting in the dark here.

Hope you feel better soon, SS.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: jacklinks on April 29, 2013, 08:15 pm
I was almost going to post something about this too SelfSovereignty. I am not a heavy drug user, however I take MDMA once per month and smoke 3-4x a week. This "brain zap" you speak of first happened to me about a week ago after I dosed 300mg of MDMA over the course of one night. I believe I took too much, although the night was great.

So moving on about a day later I started feeling something like an electric pulse radiating from my head. It is so difficult to describe, but let me try to list some things so maybe others will understand

a. feels like you just noticed something suddenly (kind of a slight frightened feeling)
b. brain feels like it has been pricked by a needle
c. sensation/pulse runs down my arms

Also I felt like I was in a fog for awhile and would get dizzy just driving in a car or even walking...

It has been one week now and my symptoms have gone away, they were very scary because the onset seemed random and was not pleasant. I think I will wait for a couple months before rolling again and limit myself to one dose.

Note: I did not heavily abuse the mdma, perhaps I took a little too much but I took 200mg followed by 100mg 2 hours later. Several friends took 300-400 as well and were fine so it seems like this brain zap thing doesn't happen to a lot of people. Sucks to be me I guess
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: DaveTheRave on April 29, 2013, 10:51 pm
I first got these head shocks a few years ago after a heavy night at a festival. Best way I could describe it is like a fast approaching train then getting hit with a cattle prod (without the pain). Also feel like if you don't open your eyes the instant it happens your head is going to pop. Happened every time I zoned out or tried to sleep and like others lasted about 5 days.
Had them since but never to that extent and always (but not every time) after MDMA.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: Copycats on April 30, 2013, 01:01 am
It's a little hard to help anyone when I don't know what drugs they are using (legal or not it doesn't matter)

I had massive brain zaps all of last year, I was taking a SSNRI and the neuro-epinephrine part was adding to the brain zaps. it was a full year of of the most intense "zaps" before i finally switched to a different med (also went sober and even now I moderate the hell out of my drug use)

Opiates and herb made it worse but that has left now that I'm on a different med. All I can say is stop or at least moderate your drug usage. I highly recommend getting off uppers because those will definitely make the anxiety in the zaps all the worse.

To describe them... it was like the most intense panic attacks I have ever had (no amount of benzos helped and I wasn't abusing them) along with intense sporadic despair heightened at the point of the "zaps" so much I found myself weeping like a baby for hours. So... emotions uncontrollable, anxiety, dread, despair coupled in with this actual feeling of being electrocuted as the neurons in head my flared uncontrollably from the sheer panic of feeling like your dying. I have been tased before and when I was young I was vacuuming the house and accidentally touched the two prongs on the electrical cord while it was halfway in the socket with the circuit connected so I know what electricity feels like.

All of that combined in some of the most terrifying few hours I would ever have happened to me daily all of last year.

try sobriety for a while, or moderate or find a different regimen of drugs to do is the only solution I can offer everyone

being sober for a while and then intense moderation along with a change in meds is what worked for me. However telling someone not to panic while this is happening is like telling someone with massive cut not to bleed, nothing really helped while this was happening, the only thing that really helped was being held by my girlfriend (as you can probably figure out we weren't together for long lol, but for a long time she was understanding and it really helped but strained the relationship, obviously). I finally figured out it wasn't the weed and opiates (those only amplified the feeling) I finally figured out is was the SSNRI's that was doing it and as soon as I switched meds I was a lot better.

Hope this helps, feel better SS
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: thegalactica420 on May 01, 2013, 06:19 am
My theory has always been that they happen when you experience a sudden change in serotonin levels, i have only experienced it after too much mdma and very occasionally after a high dose mushroom trip. I have no evidence to back this up but it seems they only happen when you have used a drug that can drastically change the levels of serotonin in your brain, ssris, snris, mdma, mushrooms, i would guess that dxm abuse could causes these as well but i have not experienced it. When i got them it would only last a few hours after to much mdma or a high dose of mushrooms.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: zvp1014 on May 02, 2013, 04:46 am
While coming off Effexor (an SNRI), I'd have these moments where I felt my mind would stay in one place as I moved, then snap back into my head as if by elastic. I felt it to be quite enjoyable and fun, in all honesty. I wouldn't operate a vehicle on it, however.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: pine on May 02, 2013, 05:49 am
Ugh, brain zaps sound awful SS. I hope you recover from them. I sometimes get sudden random twitches in my legs at night, which are almost 'zappy', but what you're describing sounds quite different.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: MuddbuttJenkins on May 02, 2013, 06:35 am
Fuck that. Done meth 1 time....thats enough to know i never wanna do it again
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: DigitalDong on May 08, 2013, 02:02 am
ive gotten brain zaps from mdma use not during my roll but exactly 3 days after ;) they really sucked.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: FrankSidebottom on May 08, 2013, 02:29 am
I was getting brain zaps all the time since coming off an SSRI (Zoloft) for depression.

To me, it felt like my brain exploding out my skull through my right ear, hitting the floor with splat, then slowly trickling back through my left ear; all in the space of like 5 seconds. Like skulling a few quad shots of whiskey and getting on a roller coaster.......but not consciously knowing about your actions........so whilst driving, talking to someone, working etc. Total cvnt of a thing.

Benadryl helps iron them out a bit; like someone said above, alcohol makes it worse, weed is OK to divert attention but I got over them naturally...I guess the hard way....exercise, nutrition and all that jazz.

Not nice SS, and I hope they fvck off eventually. They did for me.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: londonpride2 on May 08, 2013, 12:48 pm
I have had this from serotonin syndrome, not nice. If people are getting it they should look into what they are using and seek help. Hope you feel better soon.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: AussieMitch on May 08, 2013, 01:23 pm
Have you been taking Mephedrone at all?

I got brain zaps really bad after doing Mephedrone heavily for about 6 months. Every time I would go to sleep as I was drifting off I'd get these loud 'zap' sounds that I would hear in my ears combined with an electric sensation that would jolt through my head. I would also suffer from frequent sleep paralysis, where I would wake up unable to move for about 10-15 seconds.

Luckily it went away completely  after a couple of months of abstinence from all drugs and heavy exercise, it was very scary at the time.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: DrChronic on May 08, 2013, 01:41 pm
wow im so glad i found this thread. i have had these a handful of times over the last couple years and whenever you try to explain it to somebody they look at you like your crazy so i just stopped telling anybody when they happened and just assumed it was something with me.  First time i got them was a couple days after a festival and they lasted about 10 seconds maybe and i had like one a day maybe for a few days. i now realize that i get them whenever i go too hard on my serotonin either with mdma or lsd. im glad to know other people get them
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: SelfSovereignty on May 09, 2013, 09:42 pm
wow im so glad i found this thread. i have had these a handful of times over the last couple years and whenever you try to explain it to somebody they look at you like your crazy so i just stopped telling anybody when they happened and just assumed it was something with me.  First time i got them was a couple days after a festival and they lasted about 10 seconds maybe and i had like one a day maybe for a few days. i now realize that i get them whenever i go too hard on my serotonin either with mdma or lsd. im glad to know other people get them

Yeah, that's exactly why I posted about it in the first place.  Fucking scary as Hell when you don't know what's going on, and they're so hard to describe; I'm glad it makes you feel a little better about them :)
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: mrxempire on May 10, 2013, 01:43 am
I had this happen to me last summer a couple times. They were just ticklish at first, but they became stronger over time and started to feel quite uncomfortable. It scared me too. The worse is when I would be with people and get one. I would have to try as hard as i could not to make weird faces or twitch or anything haha
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: TK1991 on May 10, 2013, 01:53 am
Holy shit! I think this happened to me when I was on lsd once! It was so scary I actually thought I was having a stroke or a heart attack or something.

It scared me so badly I went to my doctor and told him the whole story to the letter, even how much acid I had taken.

But I just thought it was a spiritual experience and after that I found god.
...
JK!! haha.. Well. About the god part. It was also extremely painful and felt like something popped in my head. I'm glad to now what happened now! Ty SS<3
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: Somepup on May 12, 2013, 03:52 pm
I got these about 8 years ago when I came back from a week in Ibiza. I put it down to all the e i took. It almost felt like I was on an elevator for a few secs aswell.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: WhiteRails on May 12, 2013, 04:07 pm
these  are defiantly related  with using  too much mdma and should be a clear indication to take  a break if its  not  obvious enough  already lol. interesting others mention  experiencing it with  lsd use...

i found they would start 3 days, some times  upto a week after a heavy night of mdma, but never any other substance.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: Somepup on May 14, 2013, 11:33 pm
just watching my dying granda being pumped with moprhine i researched this further and it seems to be Myoclonic jerking. look it up
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: boosties on May 15, 2013, 01:32 am
yes ive had these come and go. i think the people who said its from the sudden change in
serotonin are correct. but for some reason the only time i would ever get them is post mdma use.
sometimes they would last for a week or two and sometimes a day. seemed to scale with how much i
did and how healthy i was prior. i got them once from mephedrone use. have never experienced them on
any other psych tho. and i love me some lsd. never after any tryptamines. the worst were always
after a good solid mdma binge.
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: Railgun on May 15, 2013, 01:43 am
I take Lexapro, and it does give you some pretty nasty zappage withdrawing from them. There's some sites dedicated to coming off SSRIs, but you can never do it too quickly.  Make sure you still have a supply if that's what's causing it, or get it from one of the pharm vendors on the road. 
Title: Re: Brain zaps
Post by: londonpride2 on May 15, 2013, 10:21 am
I have not read all the posts but I take it people have mentioned Serotonin Syndrome? almost certainly that and it can killl so be carefull.