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Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: bynter on March 16, 2013, 03:52 am
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Well, I've taken NBOMe a few times in the last few weeks, and boy, has my life changed. Here is my full experience with it, for anyone who is interested. The first half is basically my experiences. Feel free to skip to the second half if you just want to hear me explain why logic cant explain everything, why analogue communication, what the central pattern is of the mind altering effects of psychedelics, and how NBOMe can be used as an ADHD medication.
First time taking 25i:
The first time I took it, I was at school. First, I was really anxious and uncomfortable for about 30 minutes. Then, I had a great time in my last class(where we can basically talk all we want). As I was walking home with my best friend, he told me that I made an idiot out of myself, although he was impressed after I told him I was on what wight as well have been LSD. When we got to his house, we saw someone had been messing with his front gate. I was initially really scared about it, then I realized that it had been the mail man. I saw that the mailman had closed the gate in sucdh a way that was nearly impossible to open, and I don't think I've ever laughed so hard in my life. Next, I tried talking to my friend(who I normally have exceptional "bro-chemistry" with, but he didnt understand any of the concepts I was trying to explain to him. I gave him a tab, and we literally spent the next 16 hours talking about Halo armor. I slept for thirty minutes, took another tab, and then went to class. I somehow functioned all the way through. Listening to music afterwards was Quite unpleasant. Instead of hearitg music, I just heard drums being hit and guitar strings being plucked. I got home and slept for nearly 24 hours.
Aftermath:
A little after I woke up, my friend called me to tell me that there was no sign of the bag of NBOMe tabs I lost at his house. Additionally, when he was at school(which I had slept through), he was talking to a girl I was half-dating,half-friend-zoned with, and she had said she has no romantic interest in me.
With a combination of that, low seratonin levels, and post-NBOMe introspection, the next few days were some of the angstiest of my life. All my goals and ambitions had suddenly evaporated. I realized I am not nearly as cool as I think I am. I felt no purpose in life, and no emotion at anything. I almost wanted to commit suicide; not because I was depressed, but because I was simply done living, and that it was really the only thing left. If I had had access to a heroin dosage that was lethal, I feel as though the odds weren't unreasonable that I would have administered it.
I talked about it with a friend who had gone through something similar, and he told me that "You just have to keep going. You have to know that the feeling will pass. You can't ever consider the possibility that achieving your goals won't make you happy, and if youre worried about what that girl feels about you, you just have to pour your heart out to her, if there's even just a remote chance she'll accept you as more than a friend. You think this will be easy to do now, but it wont be when you go for it. You cant hesitate. You can't do it on xanax either, because it wont be you; it'll be a false version of you."
Well, after about a week, my apathy passed, though I didn't talk to the girl. I was worried that I couldn't find the bag of tabs, since I had hid it while I was under the effects. About a week later, my friend's mom found it at his house while she was cleaning. When she saw the contents, she asked my friend, "what were you doing with this!?". MY friend told her, "oh, that was Bynter's. He hid it here while on it, and then lost it" Her response was, "Hmmm. Well be sure to give it back to him. Also, tell him he shouldnt buy the cheap stuff(somehow, she knew it wasnt LSD, although she did know it was hallucinogenic.)
About a week after that, I decided I needed to make some money. I know this is highly frowned upon, but I gave a sample to one of my stoner friends, telling him it was "acid". He took it, and the next day, he told me, "Holy shit, man! That was great, I was tripping for hours. This is Grateful Dead LSD! Youre only selling them for $6 a piece? Do you know what you have? ill buy all of them!" So I sold 40 tabs at a 700% profit, and within two days, he called wanting to buy 100 more.
2nd 25I experience: Well I had to write a research paper for school, but I got writer's block, so I took a tab, along with some Adderall. About an hour later, when I was shaking and coming to all sorts of conclusions in my mind, I realized that I was getting no where on the paper, and should just enjoy the high. I walked around the campus, and found some people talking about videogames. I decided to get into a discussion about the combat system of Dragon's Dogma, and that was just a bad call. After a few minutes, I realized no one had any idea what the fuck it was I was talking about, and the more I spoke, the less sense I made. I decided to go get some food from the cafeteria, where I attempted to order a "A sandwich with your choice of bacon or ham". I saw a friend of mine walking around, and convinced him to skip class so I could try and explain some of the ideas I had.
After spending abut twe haurs trying to make some obscure analogy about a toaster, he said, "this is interesting and all, but I got an essay for film class due in two hours." I told him I'm great at writing essays, and after I read the first two paragraphs of the Wikipedia plot summary on the film, which was a movie hadn't seen, I basically wrote the essay in my idea. All he had to do was type it, and help me put some of my ideas into words. He ended up getting B+ on it.
Warning: The following may be confusing. It exists as an abstraction in my head that makes perfect sense. However, NBOMe taught me just how limited language is, as so the following only describes a concept that you must make an effort to piece tocehter in your head in order to fully understand.
After he left, I decided that I would make a final effort to put one of my ideas into words. I realized that most of the ideas I came up with made perfect sense, but not when put into words. They exist very vividly as abstractions in my head, largely in the same way that colors or emotions exist as abstractions. I realized that to explain them in logical words, I would have to perfectly explain what I meant, and define every word. Pretty soon, my explanation was basically in a computer programming language, complete with "if, then, else" statements. I learned that I can't accurately describe my ideas that exist as abstractions; however, that if I wrote them as instructions that were in a programming language, someone else could read and interpret them, eQuivelant to compiling and executing them, and when they were finished, the abstraction would exist in their head and they'd be able to understand it as well.
I figured out that abstract epistemology is just as valid as logic. Too often, people say what can't be scientifically proved is invalid. However, read the "Mary in a black & white room" thought experiment. The color, "red" exists in a manner that can't be logically observed. However, it obviously exists. 2+2="the colour red" isnt correct, and it isnt false. 4 exists on the logical plane of criteria, and colours exist in the abstract plane of criteria' and the two aren't compatible.
What I found interesting was that the abstractions in my head, couldnt really be described logically, unless it was in hyper-logial terms(computer code). I realized that on NBOMe, there were vivid abstractions in my head, and the only logical interpretation of it had to exist as DEFINEing it fully. When sober, ideas exist as vague abstractions, and when trying to put it into LOGICAL language, the result is a partial DESCRIPTION. (Notice the difference between "describe" and "define") I realized that the concept of a dictionary is stupid. Words should exist to represent an abstract idea that words should only be able to describe, and that the definition should only be able to exist as an abstraction in the mind that is comprised of someone piecing together all the words that describe it, and then having a fuzzy idea of where they all overlap.
Finally, NBOMe taught me the importance of the concept of "analogue". People think too much in digital terms. You can look at a color spectrum, and have a very clear idea of where, "blue" is. However, it is impossible to say exactly where blue begins and ends.
Analogue is abstract, digital is logical. Language can be broken down into words with indiscreet definitions. For this reason, it is essential that art exists, as experiencing art will tell you something that even the most comprehensive text summary & essay can't convey. Since I took NBOMe, I now feel I understand the meaning of Nirvana songs, although I really dont fell as though
I could put the meanings into words (though maybe I could write instructions in code, so that if you followed them, someone who dant heard the song would be able to understand what it's meaning was). Hearing someone play a Grand Piano tells you something that hearing the same song played on a MIDI wont.
Also, I feel that NBOMe was the best anti-anxiety/ADHD medication I could have ever taken; more effective than Adderall, Ritalin, Straterra, and Prozac. Before, I would try and do school work, and then something would pop into my head, like "how does the Haldron Collider work"? and as much as I would try, it would chew at the back of my mind until I looked it up. Now, I feel it is much easier to just "let go" and get some schoolwork done. Now that I know of the importance of abstractions and analogue thinking, Im much more content letting ideas exist in my head without spending the time to research them and try to put them into words. I used to clean my house and not be content until there was nothing left unattended to. Now, I can look at the the cleanliness of my house not as the components on a "to-do" list that I must completely satisfy, but instead, I can just look at the cleanliness of it as an overall abstraction, almost as an "essence". Now I'll find it a lot easier when on Adderall to convince myself, when Im, say.... reading a book, to be fine with just getting the overall idea and being content with that, instead of feeling as though I must read every page, the preface, the author's notes, and the epilogue. Tink of all the time we'd save in our lives if we didnt take the time to decide "soup or salad" since we'll probably be relatively fine with either.
tl;dr: NBOMe makes most people hallucinate; it just makes me write ideas in computer code. What the fuck?
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I would try and do school work, and then something would pop into my head, like "how does the Haldron Collider work"? and as much as I would try, it would chew at the back of my mind until I looked it up. Now, I feel it is much easier to just "let go" and get some schoolwork done. Now that I know of the importance of abstractions and analogue thinking, Im much more content letting ideas exist in my head without spending the time to research them and try to put them into words.
that happens to me daily. i am known to have a vast knowledge of completely obscure facts because shit will pop in my head and I have to find out
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too bad the nbome didn't teach you not to sell 25i as lsd... :-\
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too bad moonflower hasn't learned not to judge
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too bad moonflower hasn't learned not to judge
it's not about judgment, it's about harm reduction... selling 25i as lsd is incredibly careless and potentially dangerous. taking too many tabs of 25i thinking it's lsd could easily land you in the hospital. ???
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OP reminds me of these kids I saw at a greatful dead show you could tell it was thier first time ever tripping and exping the drug+stimuli. It all boils down to chemistry bro.
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I had to stop when I read you sold a kid the 25i tab as LSD. The first time was like okay, things happen, but you did it to him again with him still being under the impression that it was actually LSD? Jesus man, thank god for SR, this is exactly the shit that kept me from even seeking out real L around my parts.
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Most of the people I sell to know very little about pharmacology, and it'd make absolutely no difference to them if I was selling them "acid" or "NBOMe, it's alot like acid". I've had people reject my offers to sell them "LSD", but be more than enthusiastic to buy "acid". That's how uneducated people are. Besides that, even if I told the dealer I was selling NBOMe to that it was NBOMe and not LSD, he'd still market it as acid to his customers.
It's easy to say that selling NBOMe as acid is dangerous and bad karma and all, and even if I didn't have a hedonistic outlook on life, I bet most you would do the same as me when presented with a 700% return on a $40 investment.
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You know, bynter... when you first started posting here, you seemed smart. You still seem smart. But now I also think you're schizophrenic. Either that, or you're still fucked up.
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Most of the people I sell to know very little about pharmacology, and it'd make absolutely no difference to them if I was selling them "acid" or "NBOMe, it's alot like acid". I've had people reject my offers to sell them "LSD", but be more than enthusiastic to buy "acid". That's how uneducated people are. Besides that, even if I told the dealer I was selling NBOMe to that it was NBOMe and not LSD, he'd still market it as acid to his customers.
It's easy to say that selling NBOMe as acid is dangerous and bad karma and all, and even if I didn't have a hedonistic outlook on life, I bet most you would do the same as me when presented with a 700% return on a $40 investment.
im not agreeing with the OP marketing it as acid. but hes clearly in high school. go back to when you were in high school(i know most that posted in this thread that was a long time ago lol) we did a lot of stupid shit as a kid and id say majority of us at that age, that maturity level would of done similar. in time when he gets older he will realize he shouldnt. either way stop calling it lsd lol, even though i know you wont listen atleast explain its extremely potent and do not take more than 2mg(2tabs)
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Most of the people I sell to know very little about pharmacology, and it'd make absolutely no difference to them if I was selling them "acid" or "NBOMe, it's alot like acid". I've had people reject my offers to sell them "LSD", but be more than enthusiastic to buy "acid". That's how uneducated people are. Besides that, even if I told the dealer I was selling NBOMe to that it was NBOMe and not LSD, he'd still market it as acid to his customers.
It's easy to say that selling NBOMe as acid is dangerous and bad karma and all, and even if I didn't have a hedonistic outlook on life, I bet most you would do the same as me when presented with a 700% return on a $40 investment.
so, would it make a difference if someone you knew ended up in the hospital because of 25i? that's not exactly uncommon... and no, i would not knowingly put someone's life in potential danger just to make a quick buck.
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Selling nBOME as lsd is evil.
You're a fucktard that needs a brutal assraping.
Karma will get ya.
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Damn, I guess i underestimated the dangers of it. I thought NBOMe was safe up until like 6mgs. Since which I've also discovered something that makes me wonder, why the hell are people so reckless with LSD dosing!? (I hope that doesnt sound like me trying to not take responsibility if someone ODs on a mismarketed drug, because Im not.)
But now I also think you're schizophrenic.
I cant tell if you were just trying to drive home a point or if you actually mean that, because that's actually been something I've been worrying about lately.
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Most of the people I sell to know very little about pharmacology, and it'd make absolutely no difference to them if I was selling them "acid" or "NBOMe, it's alot like acid". I've had people reject my offers to sell them "LSD", but be more than enthusiastic to buy "acid". That's how uneducated people are. Besides that, even if I told the dealer I was selling NBOMe to that it was NBOMe and not LSD, he'd still market it as acid to his customers.
It's easy to say that selling NBOMe as acid is dangerous and bad karma and all, and even if I didn't have a hedonistic outlook on life, I bet most you would do the same as me when presented with a 700% return on a $40 investment.
if you know it's wrong then you shouldn't do it; it doesn't matter what other people would do. I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't want to be responsible (ethically, if not legally) for harming or killing someone.
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I bet most you would do the same as me when presented with a 700% return on a $40 investment.
Not so sure on that bro, flogging worming powder as coke offers a far greater return (I imagine) and most of us wouldn't do that either.
If you're gonna do wholesale, be prepared to inform your clients. Then the burden of responsible disclosure is shifted to them. Just scribble "25i Nbome, erowid.org" on a sticky and hand it over with the tabs.
All the logical clarity in the universe doesn't excuse deception, and if there had been any negative consequences, that knowledge would come back to you and ruin all your future trips. Assuming the Feds hadn't come looking to sweep you up first...
You're still young, you're clearly quite smart, and make the odd mistake. Could've been any one of us I imagine. I'd respectfully suggest you try to organize things a bit better is all. Keep the Nbome's for out of school hours, so you can really get somewhere interesting on them, don't use repeatedly (it's a waste), and be mindful your mind isn't "fully physically developed" until your early 20's or so, so you should avoid sustained chemical attacks on its unfinished structures...
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Damn, I guess i underestimated the dangers of it. I thought NBOMe was safe up until like 6mgs. Since which I've also discovered something that makes me wonder, why the hell are people so reckless with LSD dosing!? (I hope that doesnt sound like me trying to not take responsibility if someone ODs on a mismarketed drug, because Im not.)
But now I also think you're schizophrenic.
I cant tell if you were just trying to drive home a point or if you actually mean that, because that's actually been something I've been worrying about lately.
The fundamental basis of logic is at the outskirts of human comprehension. It involves self reference, because we use logic to comprehend and analyze as an intrinsic part of comprehending something -- self reference is always problematic (provably so, in fact). Being wrong or coming to bizarre conclusions does not make you crazy. I'm sorry I threw the word about somewhat loosely. Schizophrenia is characterized by hallucinations and elaborate, provably false, delusions. If you do not see little demons that warn you that their master is coming soon and must be stopped, you are most likely not schizophrenic.
I do think your conclusions here are quite wrong, but even so, that does not make you crazy.
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I really enjoyed your write-up. This is definitely a substance I'll look into for the future! However, a few words of caution...I've been somewhat in your position with school and drug taking, and I'll just say don't get too used to it. Once you learn to live on drugs and doing homework high and whatnot, it's very hard to unlearn and figure out how you'd ever want to live life without them.
I think your a very interesting and smart person, just beware that entering too far into those 'contemplative' states where you judge the meaning of life, why quantum physics creates a rational universe, and how pointless living is. I absolutely LOVE talking about and thinking about those things, but it starts to become toxic to your thoughts and I lost all connection with reality. I started living like I was just in a world of interacting forces and particles and completely forgot about the joy of living and human interaction. Though life may be pointless, as far as we know its the only one we have, so might as well try to enjoy and experience everything while we have the chance.
I'd just hate to see someone take their own life because they took a very reductionist view of the world we live in, as it was only last year I tried to take my own following that same line of thinking.
Just remember people, those feelings will always pass!
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A dealer around my area was selling lsd too cheap and I tested a tab and it was 25i apparently there was some kid supplying this dealer with tons of tabs saying they were lsd. Needless to say that kid got himself fucked up something fierce once I informed the dealer he had been tricked.
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I market my 25i-nbome tabs to my customers as exactly that. Anyone with a fucking brain or a lick of experience knows that a bitter taste and super tongue/mouth numbing is 25i and not LSD. That being said I still have no problem selling 10-strips for $100, 25 for $250 and 40-50 for $400-$500 - as you can see I stick to 10/ea no matter how much they get, and I may throw in a few just cause if they are getting a lot. They are just happy that they can trip balls off half a 1mg tab, cause 25i is strong stuff.
Don't lie, it'll save your ass in the long run and your customers will come back for more if they like it.
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[/quoteI market my 25i-nbome tabs to my customers as exactly that. Anyone with a fucking brain or a lick of experience knows that a bitter taste and super tongue/mouth numbing is 25i and not LSD. That being said I still have no problem selling 10-strips for $100, 25 for $250 and 40-50 for $400-$500 - as you can see I stick to 10/ea no matter how much they get, and I may throw in a few just cause if they are getting a lot. They are just happy that they can trip balls off half a 1mg tab, cause 25i is strong stuff.
Don't lie, it'll save your ass in the long run and your customers will come back for more if they like it.
I actually think I'll do that.
"Hey! You know that stuff I've been selling you? I guess it's not acid. It's better, stronger than acid. It's LSD for the 21st century!"
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The fundamental basis of logic is at the outskirts of human comprehension. It involves self reference, because we use logic to comprehend and analyze as an intrinsic part of comprehending something -- self reference is always problematic (provably so, in fact). Being wrong or coming to bizarre conclusions does not make you crazy. I'm sorry I threw the word about somewhat loosely. Schizophrenia is characterized by hallucinations and elaborate, provably false, delusions. If you do not see little demons that warn you that their master is coming soon and must be stopped, you are most likely not schizophrenic.
I do think your conclusions here are quite wrong, but even so, that does not make you crazy.
Should we get into a discussion abut this, because I sure want to. I know that I'll learn something. I actually have a lot more I could elaborate and explain and specify on. I'm just hoping the whole "NBOMe as acid" wont damage our relations too much.
I really enjoyed your write-up. This is definitely a substance I'll look into for the future! However, a few words of caution...I've been somewhat in your position with school and drug taking, and I'll just say don't get too used to it. Once you learn to live on drugs and doing homework high and whatnot, it's very hard to unlearn and figure out how you'd ever want to live life without them.
I think your a very interesting and smart person, just beware that entering too far into those 'contemplative' states where you judge the meaning of life, why quantum physics creates a rational universe, and how pointless living is. I absolutely LOVE talking about and thinking about those things, but it starts to become toxic to your thoughts and I lost all connection with reality. I started living like I was just in a world of interacting forces and particles and completely forgot about the joy of living and human interaction. Though life may be pointless, as far as we know its the only one we have, so might as well try to enjoy and experience everything while we have the chance.
I'd just hate to see someone take their own life because they took a very reductionist view of the world we live in, as it was only last year I tried to take my own following that same line of thinking.
Just remember people, those feelings will always pass!
Do you want to get into a discussion about this, because there's certainly a lot on the matter to discuss. I just want to make sure your in for it before I spend the time on another detailed write up.
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The fundamental basis of logic is at the outskirts of human comprehension. It involves self reference, because we use logic to comprehend and analyze as an intrinsic part of comprehending something -- self reference is always problematic (provably so, in fact). Being wrong or coming to bizarre conclusions does not make you crazy. I'm sorry I threw the word about somewhat loosely. Schizophrenia is characterized by hallucinations and elaborate, provably false, delusions. If you do not see little demons that warn you that their master is coming soon and must be stopped, you are most likely not schizophrenic.
I do think your conclusions here are quite wrong, but even so, that does not make you crazy.
Should we get into a discussion abut this, because I sure want to. I know that I'll learn something. I actually have a lot more I could elaborate and explain and specify on. I'm just hoping the whole "NBOMe as acid" wont damage our relations too much.
Doesn't really matter to me, man. I did a lot of insincere things when I was younger; it's not like I've never told a lie in my life or taken advantage of someone. We all do a lot of stupid shit when we're young.
Sure. What do you want to discuss about it? I was talking about Godel's Incompleteness theorems, for context, but whatever you want to focus on is fine.