Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: White 0ut on February 15, 2013, 01:14 pm
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I am just curious. I have heard of the man in Australia a long time ago and not much more. I don't like to do a lot of research on it because it makes me paranoid as a mf. So I ask you these questions community.
BTW I am referring to USA laws but other countries can chime in!!
Has anyone on these actual forums ever caught a charge?
What would the name of the charges and maximum charges be for the average personal buyer? I know this depends on country or drugs.
How would they go about this process?
Obviously with evidence from a poor stealth shipper, then warrant, then jail, but then what happens?
I would think you would get into more trouble if you were importing from another country rather than domestic.
If no one here has ever been charged then obviously the people that already have been are either in for life or stopped SR'ing completely...
Thoughts?
Also this isn't meant to instill fear but rather educate....
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Has anyone on these actual forums ever caught a charge?
I can't give you a link, but yes, I've read credible sounding posts about at least 1-3 people getting arrested. They all fucked up though... were careless or let the police intimidate them into admitting guilt or something, etc..
What would the name of the charges and maximum charges be for the average personal buyer? I know this depends on country or drugs.
Look up the drug sentencing chart for your state, then federal guidelines. Then remember that it's a federal charge and there's no parole. Period.
How would they go about this process?
Do a forum search for Controlled Delivery.
Obviously with evidence from a poor stealth shipper, then warrant, then jail, but then what happens?
What do you mean then what? Then you fucking rot, what else.
I would think you would get into more trouble if you were importing from another country rather than domestic.
The charge has nothing to do with the source, only the fact that it crossed state lines and you're in possession of it. You're more likely to get caught from international shipments because of customs, but that's about it.
If no one here has ever been charged then obviously the people that already have been are either in for life or stopped SR'ing completely...
Thoughts?
That's not how it works. Even after you're convicted you can stay out for awhile if you're on bail or something. Then you eventually get sentenced, and they take you into custody then & there. So people could probably come tell us all if they wanted to. I'd wager their life gets so fucked up that it's the least of their concerns though.
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So controlled delivery is the only way that they can touch you correct? Without your acceptance and opening of the package they have nothing?
Also I have been thinking, could they use incriminating txt/ my computers HD against me to put me away without making a CD? The reason I ask all this is because my packages are all sent to someone else's residence than my own. But I am responsible for buying the BTC and making the orders....
Can I really even be convicted since I am not receiving/possessing in any direct or indirect way?
Thoughts?
Once again sorry for all the questions but I feel like they should be asked.
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So controlled delivery is the only way that they can touch you correct? Without your acceptance and opening of the package they have nothing?
No, that's not the case. They can still arrest you. The problem is that unless you confess, the evidence is pretty thin. But it's expensive and time consuming to mount a defense. Basically, the cops get all the evidence they can in the process of arresting you. Then they're finished, and it's up to the district attorney's office to prosecute you. The cops wash their hands of you, basically -- they're not just going to watch you walk away because you didn't take the bait. They'll arrest you anyway. They may or may not be able to execute a warrant on your property if you don't accept delivery of the package. That's up to the judge issuing the warrant (and whether it's dependent on you accepting the package and thereby exhibiting reasonable suspicion of guilt).
Also I have been thinking, could they use incriminating txt/ my computers HD against me to put me away without making a CD? The reason I ask all this is because my packages are all sent to someone else's residence than my own. But I am responsible for buying the BTC and making the orders....
If they wanted you badly enough, sure. But unless you're selling, chances are they won't care. Either they get you for possession, etc., or they don't bother ripping apart your hard drive. That requires time, court seizure orders, tech experts who cost money, etc..
Can I really even be convicted since I am not receiving/possessing in any direct or indirect way?
I don't understand. You order drugs, and ship them to your friend, and then... let him keep them? You end up in possession of them eventually, yes? Well there you are. Sometimes even with a controlled delivery they'll wait a little while to see if anybody else comes to pick up the shipment.
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Lol thanks SS lot's of good info! What I meant by shipping to another address was,
I have a friend hrs away, really we are not even in contact that much....
I ship to his girls place, when she receives it he then goes and transfers it to his place or a random location, he then pays me more than what I paid for it lol. I win either way, however he does save me personal amounts (I only order what I like). I meet up with him in a discreet place every several weeks or so (other than this I am not in contact), we exchange money/product like a normal deal we would always have aside from SR. The package goes through not only 1 but 2 different places & a 2 week period of sitting before I ever even see it or anything that was in it. I really am not related in any way but I am paying for and shipping it.
Basically what I am asking is can I be incarcerated for buying and shipping them over tor, sr, pgp encrypted, BTC anonymized..... While not ACTUALLY receiving any of the product. How do my odds look in your opinion SS, you assuming Im of decent mind of course! Like DPR said anyone can ship you drugs... Which will be my vendor, I am ony paying for it basically. So what I am getting at is without actual drug evidence could I get in trouble for simply using SR, But really not physically using it...
Hope this made sense!
Thanks again!
All of my Q's are answered for now and asked. I hope this doesn't sound like a paranoid/situationspecific/useless thread, but more of a educational thread between a n00b and a vet
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Ahh, now I see what you're really asking :)
Yeah, there's still risk: if you're ordering large enough amounts, they may actually deliberately let it go through and just keep the recipient under surveillance for awhile. Then he meets with you, some guy a couple hours away that he only talks to on occasion. Looks kind of suspicious.
But if they don't actually do that, then yeah, there's no chance at all you'll ever get caught. Unless you screw up and get caught in possession of something, or he's under surveillance for some other reason (it's my assumption that every street level dealer gets found eventually -- I've certainly never known any that didn't eventually, anyway).
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There are always going to be some risks, but as long as you are not an idiot, the odds of getting caught and convicted are astronomical.
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Conspiracy charges are a possibility.
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White Out, based on your situation, not only are you unlikely to get pinched on domestic orders from well reputed sellers, but that fact you are a few degrees of separation from the receipient makes it even less likely you will ever end up with a conviction from your activities on SR. To clarify one thing, there is indeed no parole on a federal charge, but if you manage to not get infractions while doing your years in federal prison you will do 85% of your sentence with time off for good behavior. With that being said, you will not get a federal trial over user amounts of drugs, most likely. Unless there is a reason the govt might hate you other than your drug purchase such as your politics etc. Main point is based on what you have said, I would say you have one of the lowest chances of ending up doing a bid out of all the buyers on SR. If worse comes to worse, don't spread your misfortune. Remember the below words, from a wise group known as Geto Boys.
We don't talk to police, we don't make a peace bond
We don't trust in the judicial system, we shoot guns
We rely on the streets, we do battle in the hood
I was born in the G Code, embedded in my blood
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White Out, based on your situation, not only are you unlikely to get pinched on domestic orders from well reputed sellers, but that fact you are a few degrees of separation from the receipient makes it even less likely you will ever end up with a conviction from your activities on SR. To clarify one thing, there is indeed no parole on a federal charge, but if you manage to not get infractions while doing your years in federal prison you will do 85% of your sentence with time off for good behavior. With that being said, you will not get a federal trial over user amounts of drugs, most likely. Unless there is a reason the govt might hate you other than your drug purchase such as your politics etc. Main point is based on what you have said, I would say you have one of the lowest chances of ending up doing a bid out of all the buyers on SR. If worse comes to worse, don't spread your misfortune. Remember the below words, from a wise group known as Geto Boys.
We don't talk to police, we don't make a peace bond
We don't trust in the judicial system, we shoot guns
We rely on the streets, we do battle in the hood
I was born in the G Code, embedded in my blood
Hell yeah bro thanks for chiming in:} I think my chances are slim as well I like you OG quote btw lol. So let's talk harddrive precaution since this is main concern for me.... any advice other than pgp ect... common knowledge?
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Hell yeah bro thanks for chiming in:} I think my chances are slim as well I like you OG quote btw lol. So let's talk harddrive precaution since this is main concern for me.... any advice other than pgp ect... common knowledge?
You want a single hard drive that's a full TrueCrypt volume. The hidden ones embedded in regular hard drives have a couple of vulnerabilities that make them less secure. Other than that, never talk about business unencrypted, don't even speak openly about it in your daily interaction, and you'll probably never have any really irrefutable evidence used against you. Probably, mind you.
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Not to be a jerk but if your friend knows who you are then of course you will get busted if he ever gets pinched. Most folks who get caught with drugs are more than happy to sing to the cops about who they got the drugs from since the cops are telling them that they can either sleep with their girl that night or get ass raped by a homicidal cannibal in a prison cell if they don't.
While it all sounds good the way you have it set up in theory, you have actually increased the likelihood of getting busted by adding AT LEAST two more people into the equation, who knows how many people they have told?
Lets face it, the only safe way to get drugs in this country is from a doctor. If you order off the road or by on the street, there are always going to be ways to get you if they want you. Your current method puts you in line for tax evasion, drug distribution, possession, etc. If you just order personal use amounts all you get is possession if they happen to even care about the small amount you get from time to time.
Not trying to be preachy, it's just all about reducing the variables. The fewer people involved in anything illegal the safer it is.
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Not to be a jerk but if your friend knows who you are then of course you will get busted if he ever gets pinched. Most folks who get caught with drugs are more than happy to sing to the cops about who they got the drugs from since the cops are telling them that they can either sleep with their girl that night or get ass raped by a homicidal cannibal in a prison cell if they don't.
While it all sounds good the way you have it set up in theory, you have actually increased the likelihood of getting busted by adding AT LEAST two more people into the equation, who knows how many people they have told?
Lets face it, the only safe way to get drugs in this country is from a doctor. If you order off the road or by on the street, there are always going to be ways to get you if they want you. Your current method puts you in line for tax evasion, drug distribution, possession, etc. If you just order personal use amounts all you get is possession if they happen to even care about the small amount you get from time to time.
Not trying to be preachy, it's just all about reducing the variables. The fewer people involved in anything illegal the safer it is.
SS- Where would you recommend purchasing one of these? Also what can be reccomended for completely wiping my system of all tor related things, sr notepad txt, saved digital downloads from SR? I plan on transferring all these to the new encrypted HD. Also I will be wiping all of those from 2 seperate windows computers so just let me know what you think on that end. I want NO trace of anything left that wasn't there before really.
DS- Nah man your not being preachy at all. I made this thread for info man, your offering it up on a gold platter! Like others have in here (SS)... & Yes I do realize the likelihood of him snitching on me if the shit hits the fan.... This is a risk when dealing with any source other than SR of course for buying & selling. There is always the chance someone will flip. However, the good thing about SR is that if I don't like how things are going with this guy for some reason, I can just start shipping to my crib (Home Residence/ Business that receives packages daily) but Ill cross that road when I get there. For the time being I am steadily getting buys under my belt, securing my HD and encrypting everything, until I am 100% experienced with SR and know the ropes like a vet (won't be till a while from now) all without really any risk besides one snitching on me basically. & I know EVERYONE sings like a bird when it's their ass on the line but this is also the same guy that has brought me lbs from 3 hrs away on front alone.... Those days have been long ago however...
Thanks all.
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Has anyone caught a charge ordering on sr? The only one I heard of was that australian dude. From what I heard he wasn't careful hardly at all. I'd say with proper stealth, and being aware of whats going on around you, that you could have an undetectable way of doing things.
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The only ones who go down are the ones that give in to their lies. Fear is a powerful motivator.
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Sounds like you're good to go and people already pointed out the important parts. Such as..
Keep all your SR related data on an encrypted hard drive. Stay away from windows if possible.
Keep an eye on your contact and establish a pattern for each transaction. Your contact is the
only real way you could get into trouble for instance if they were already being watched or
were popped and they flipped on you.
The cops are there to scare people, watch First 48 and you'll see all the high 5's going around
after they get someone to tell on themselves... its really sick because these guys probably didn't
have the proof they needed and this is how people plead guilty to shit they didnt commit...
It makes me think of sales guys going in for the kill and bragging about their conquest after they
get them to sign something that's NOT in their favor.. same concept.
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Has anyone caught a charge ordering on sr? The only one I heard of was that australian dude. From what I heard he wasn't careful hardly at all. I'd say with proper stealth, and being aware of whats going on around you, that you could have an undetectable way of doing things.
Two Australian brothers got charged for buying from her.. They were kids, and they were only caught cause their fucking parents turned them in!
What kind of parent fucks up their own child's future like that??? some people don't deserve to breathe oxygen.
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Has anyone caught a charge ordering on sr? The only one I heard of was that australian dude. From what I heard he wasn't careful hardly at all. I'd say with proper stealth, and being aware of whats going on around you, that you could have an undetectable way of doing things.
Two Australian brothers got charged for buying from her.. They were kids, and they were only caught cause their fucking parents turned them in!
What kind of parent fucks up their own child's future like that??? some people don't deserve to breathe oxygen.
This is why kids murder their parents.
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So controlled delivery is the only way that they can touch you correct? Without your acceptance and opening of the package they have nothing?
Also I have been thinking, could they use incriminating txt/ my computers HD against me to put me away without making a CD? The reason I ask all this is because my packages are all sent to someone else's residence than my own. But I am responsible for buying the BTC and making the orders....
Can I really even be convicted since I am not receiving/possessing in any direct or indirect way?
Thoughts?
Once again sorry for all the questions but I feel like they should be asked.
You are an idiot man. Stop using phones! Every text message you send is stored permanently, and any US Postal Inspector can easily look up everything you've been texting, and to whom, and look up all your credit/employment/criminal/travel/tax histories and look for suspicious details. They can easily READ all the contents of your text messages without a warrant, too, they just need a subpeona or NSL which you are then banned from being informed about by the phone company.
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You are an idiot man. Stop using phones! Every text message you send is stored permanently, and any US Postal Inspector can easily look up everything you've been texting, and to whom, and look up all your credit/employment/criminal/travel/tax histories and look for suspicious details. They can easily READ all the contents of your text messages without a warrant, too, they just need a subpeona or NSL which you are then banned from being informed about by the phone company.
ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? The Postmaster??? I thought that those privileges were limited to LE agencies?
"Land of the free, whoever told you that is your enemy." - RATM
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So controlled delivery is the only way that they can touch you correct? Without your acceptance and opening of the package they have nothing?
Also I have been thinking, could they use incriminating txt/ my computers HD against me to put me away without making a CD? The reason I ask all this is because my packages are all sent to someone else's residence than my own. But I am responsible for buying the BTC and making the orders....
Can I really even be convicted since I am not receiving/possessing in any direct or indirect way?
Thoughts?
Once again sorry for all the questions but I feel like they should be asked.
You are an idiot man. Stop using phones! Every text message you send is stored permanently, and any US Postal Inspector can easily look up everything you've been texting, and to whom, and look up all your credit/employment/criminal/travel/tax histories and look for suspicious details. They can easily READ all the contents of your text messages without a warrant, too, they just need a subpeona or NSL which you are then banned from being informed about by the phone company.
Fuck you schmuck. I have a go phone you cunt. It's not linked in any way. I was talking about if they somehow got a warrant and recovered it somehow. I was asking if they could use that against me even though the package wasn't coming to me directly. Oh and btw no credit lines, no employment history, never had even a traffic ticket, never had to file taxes, always pay in cash for travel. Always pay in cash for cars. Keep everything in others name. Want to know how I do this???? Im a fucking drug dealer like 90% of everyone else here.
So take that shit down the road.
So now I ask you...
ARE YOU A IDIOT?
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Has anyone caught a charge ordering on sr? The only one I heard of was that australian dude. From what I heard he wasn't careful hardly at all. I'd say with proper stealth, and being aware of whats going on around you, that you could have an undetectable way of doing things.
Two Australian brothers got charged for buying from her.. They were kids, and they were only caught cause their fucking parents turned them in!
What kind of parent fucks up their own child's future like that??? some people don't deserve to breathe oxygen.
This is why kids murder their parents.
^ lol
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You are an idiot man. Stop using phones! Every text message you send is stored permanently, and any US Postal Inspector can easily look up everything you've been texting, and to whom, and look up all your credit/employment/criminal/travel/tax histories and look for suspicious details. They can easily READ all the contents of your text messages without a warrant, too, they just need a subpeona or NSL which you are then banned from being informed about by the phone company.
ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? The Postmaster??? I thought that those privileges were limited to LE agencies?
"Land of the free, whoever told you that is your enemy." - RATM
US Postal Inspectors are federal law enforcement agents; they carry guns and make arrests. They have even more extensive access to data mining for investigatory purposes than most other law enforcement.
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Has anyone caught a charge ordering on sr? The only one I heard of was that australian dude. From what I heard he wasn't careful hardly at all. I'd say with proper stealth, and being aware of whats going on around you, that you could have an undetectable way of doing things.
Two Australian brothers got charged for buying from her.. They were kids, and they were only caught cause their fucking parents turned them in!
What kind of parent fucks up their own child's future like that??? some people don't deserve to breathe oxygen.
This is why kids murder their parents.
Lol! You know it! I left home at 14, 8 or 9 years ago cause my parents were arse-holes.. But if I was still a kid and my parents did that to me I would without a doubt be murdering them! >:(
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A Canadian vendor named moveitnice got caught last year, i know this for a fact
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Was his being caught a result of his actions on SR or was it due to local sales or his connection?
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when I was 17, a few months after our father died, I had an argument with my sister one morning over who was reading which newspaper ...she had cut in on the one I was reading when I went to get a refill of cereal ... and becoz I got my way (no violence or anything) the fuckinsluto called the cops about the 12 x 30cm high pot plants I had growing out the back!
And when I found out she had, later that afternoon, she came home not long after me and I slapped her once on the face, and she called the cops again, and charged me with assualt!
I got a 12 month good behaviour bond in court, and instructed toavoid her! lol I haven't spoken to her since! From what I know shes becoming a lonley old spinster .... ha! she was once a fuckin gold digger with guys all over the place! Family huh?
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A Canadian vendor named moveitnice got caught last year, i know this for a fact
Where'd you hear that?
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when I was 17, a few months after our father died, I had an argument with my sister one morning over who was reading which newspaper ...she had cut in on the one I was reading when I went to get a refill of cereal ... and becoz I got my way (no violence or anything) the fuckinsluto called the cops about the 12 x 30cm high pot plants I had growing out the back!
And when I found out she had, later that afternoon, she came home not long after me and I slapped her once on the face, and she called the cops again, and charged me with assualt!
I got a 12 month good behaviour bond in court, and instructed toavoid her! lol I haven't spoken to her since! From what I know shes becoming a lonley old spinster .... ha! she was once a fuckin gold digger with guys all over the place! Family huh?
That's fucked up, being ratted out by family.
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A Canadian vendor named moveitnice got caught last year, i know this for a fact
Where'd you hear that?
he was using western union and other payment methods as well as bitcoins and it was all over the internet last year that he was busted, type Canadian family cocaine ottawa into google and it tells you.
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when I was 17, a few months after our father died, I had an argument with my sister one morning over who was reading which newspaper ...she had cut in on the one I was reading when I went to get a refill of cereal ... and becoz I got my way (no violence or anything) the fuckinsluto called the cops about the 12 x 30cm high pot plants I had growing out the back!
And when I found out she had, later that afternoon, she came home not long after me and I slapped her once on the face, and she called the cops again, and charged me with assualt!
I got a 12 month good behaviour bond in court, and instructed toavoid her! lol I haven't spoken to her since! From what I know shes becoming a lonley old spinster .... ha! she was once a fuckin gold digger with guys all over the place! Family huh?
Damn man that sucks to hear, my father passed when I was around that age but at least I didn't have "Call the cops Christy" as my sister. lmao
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If the authorities are as powerless to stop SR as it appears, I'm surprised they don't begin picking off easy targets and making examples of them in the media to spread fear. Perhaps they don't want any media attention at this point, as it would just drive up the use and make them look bad. Or perhaps they have compromised the system and are using it as a giant honeypot to catch distributors.
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If the authorities are as powerless to stop SR as it appears, I'm surprised they don't begin picking off easy targets and making examples of them in the media to spread fear. Perhaps they don't want any media attention at this point, as it would just drive up the use and make them look bad. Or perhaps they have compromised the system and are using it as a giant honeypot to catch distributors.
If you dig through the entirety of these forums, there are plenty of stories of vendors being busted possibly due to SR. In Canada, USA, UK, NL, etc.
It's incredibly hard to prove that the person in the news is the vendor called out as being busted though, besides the timing of the bust happening at the same time that a popular vendor goes missing.
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when I was 17, a few months after our father died, I had an argument with my sister one morning over who was reading which newspaper ...she had cut in on the one I was reading when I went to get a refill of cereal ... and becoz I got my way (no violence or anything) the fuckinsluto called the cops about the 12 x 30cm high pot plants I had growing out the back!
And when I found out she had, later that afternoon, she came home not long after me and I slapped her once on the face, and she called the cops again, and charged me with assualt!
I got a 12 month good behaviour bond in court, and instructed toavoid her! lol I haven't spoken to her since! From what I know shes becoming a lonley old spinster .... ha! she was once a fuckin gold digger with guys all over the place! Family huh?
That's fucked up, being ratted out by family.
One of the golden rules in life is simply: Never trust a woman.
It doesn't matter if you're related, married or best friends and it doesn't matter how sexist it sounds either, most women will turn on you in an instant when it suits them.
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I am not sure of actually being busted. But some older teens around my way were using SR extensively for months on end before deciding to order a LB of bud..Soon after they reported to often being followed by the law but I am unsure if this is due to SR or their daily dealings..They often bragged about SR as their source, sold a lot to almost anyone, and most likely didn't PGP encrypt.
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One of the golden rules in life is simply: Never trust a woman.
It doesn't matter if you're related, married or best friends and it doesn't matter how sexist it sounds either, most women will turn on you in an instant when it suits them.
hmmmm I quite like women .... considering I am one :o ;D
I thought you all might like to know a little more from the comments ... and I thank you all for caring enough to comment
And this bitch had been my older sister by 2 years .... and we 'did have' a fairly good relationship up to that point!
Alas she was rather 'straight' and frowned upon her sister smoking dope (and having more 'fun' than her! ::)) and I guess she too was upset with our father dying (who btw was a lawyer...who would have disowned her for doing such a thing had he been alive.
And sadly, like so many women, she would recall and bring up EVERY grievance sshe had with me since she was 4yo, using these 'ancient slights' to 'justify' her behaviour!
You know the type, they can NEVER be 'wrong' ::)
I have spoken to her twice since then, the last time i asked her "do you STILL 'think/believe' you did the 'right thing' back then? To which she replied 'yes' ... I hung up.
That was nearly 20 years ago ... I hear she's now an unhappy spinster who 'looks' have gone and her gold digging way are well and truly past.!
I guess that's what you get for being a selfish bitch .... >:(
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One of the golden rules in life is simply: Never trust a woman.
It doesn't matter if you're related, married or best friends and it doesn't matter how sexist it sounds either, most women will turn on you in an instant when it suits them.
hmmmm I quite like women .... considering I am one :o ;D
I thought you all might like to know a little more from the comments ... and I thank you all for caring enough to comment
And this bitch had been my older sister by 2 years .... and we 'did have' a fairly good relationship up to that point!
Alas she was rather 'straight' and frowned upon her sister smoking dope (and having more 'fun' than her! ::)) and I guess she too was upset with our father dying (who btw was a lawyer...who would have disowned her for doing such a thing had he been alive.
And sadly, like so many women, she would recall and bring up EVERY grievance sshe had with me since she was 4yo, using these 'ancient slights' to 'justify' her behaviour!
You know the type, they can NEVER be 'wrong' ::)
I have spoken to her twice since then, the last time i asked her "do you STILL 'think/believe' you did the 'right thing' back then? To which she replied 'yes' ... I hung up.
That was nearly 20 years ago ... I hear she's now an unhappy spinster who 'looks' have gone and her gold digging way are well and truly past.!
I guess that's what you get for being a selfish bitch .... >:(
I'm sorry you had such a bad relationship with your sister. I'm glad I can trust my sister with anything, but she is also 5 years younger.
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One of the golden rules in life is simply: Never trust a woman.
It doesn't matter if you're related, married or best friends and it doesn't matter how sexist it sounds either, most women will turn on you in an instant when it suits them.
hmmmm I quite like women .... considering I am one :o ;D
I thought you all might like to know a little more from the comments ... and I thank you all for caring enough to comment
And this bitch had been my older sister by 2 years .... and we 'did have' a fairly good relationship up to that point!
Alas she was rather 'straight' and frowned upon her sister smoking dope (and having more 'fun' than her! ::)) and I guess she too was upset with our father dying (who btw was a lawyer...who would have disowned her for doing such a thing had he been alive.
And sadly, like so many women, she would recall and bring up EVERY grievance sshe had with me since she was 4yo, using these 'ancient slights' to 'justify' her behaviour!
You know the type, they can NEVER be 'wrong' ::)
I have spoken to her twice since then, the last time i asked her "do you STILL 'think/believe' you did the 'right thing' back then? To which she replied 'yes' ... I hung up.
That was nearly 20 years ago ... I hear she's now an unhappy spinster who 'looks' have gone and her gold digging way are well and truly past.!
I guess that's what you get for being a selfish bitch .... >:(
Damn, and I was thinking you should still try to reconnect until that last part. Sorry to hear that. I guess I should be glad I'm at least on speaking terms with my family