Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: zipstyle on January 12, 2013, 01:12 am
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Does anyone else experience this? If so, are there any things you've found to be helpful to reduce these side effects?
I feel like there's something I'm missing that's relatively simple.
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My experience is mostly with cocaine, but I would get sore after using that too.
I think a big part of it is that you get numbed to the normal discomfort of sitting in one position for a long time. Especially when sitting on the floor or Indian style, I would get major aches in my legs, sometimes in my back.
One solution is to remember to change position, move around when you're high.
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You're not the only one. It's a constant issue for me, actually. I do my best to keep the tylenol, aspirin, and advil to an absolute minimum (as if I'm not already doing enough damage to my liver and kidneys), but basically: it's part of tweaking for 3 days straight.
The cellular trauma that your body sustains by simply being alive and active is repaired during sleep cycles (maybe only REM, but frankly I don't know). Skip that for a couple of days, so that it keeps adding up. Then pile on the extra damage from being active when you should have been sleeping. Then pile on the tenseness you get from powerful stimulants. And try to avoid piling on compulsiveness making you do stupid shit like fuck with skin imperfections or something (seriously, you really cannot tweak regularly and let yourself do that, you will fuck your appearance up badly).
Just part of the drug, unfortunately.
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Something about stimulants seem to cause this. I believe it is from many factors such as dehydration, muscles CONSTANTLY being tense, being in a odd position for a long time with out realizing, and lastly not being able to get good rest. Just my 2 cents.
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I also experience this. My shoulders, neck, jaw and teeth hurt/ache. I also experience odd headaches behind my eyes. It sort of feels like my eyeballs are being pulled back into my head lol. Ibuprofen only moderately helps the headaches and Valium/muscle relaxers seem to have little to no effect on the muscle tension oddly enough. I've been taking chelated magnesium and magnesium l-threonate at night and it seems to ease the jaw clenching/grinding a bit. Surprisingly enough 1,4b increase the muscle tension in my back and shoulders.
Although the things I've tried have not help me in any substantial way they may help you. I tend to be a bit of a freak when it comes drugs. It seems to take an enormous amount of anything for me to feel something even resembling euphoria...it sucks beyond belief. Hopefully some of the crystal vets will chime in (yeah I'm talking to you Toejammer! Lol). I'm pretty new to meth (3-4 months), but I've been taking daily prescription amphetamines for 7 years up until I started using.
I almost forgot! The one thing that is an absolute must is water, water and more water. This without a doubt is key to to feeling like complete shit during/post binge. Electrolyte beverages are important too (Gatorade, Vitamin Water.)
One other thing that seems to help the muscle tension in my shoulders and back is trigger point release. Trigger points are simplistically speaking small areas in the muscle that are knotted up. This knotting up can cause pain in the area of the trigger point as well as other areas of the body. Basically what you do is take a tennis ball and press against a wall finding the tender points in your shoulders/back. Once you find a trigger point you'll know it because it hurts like hell. Press against the trigger point just below the threshold of pain until you feel the pain easing up. Sorry for the long winded post lol. Hope this helps.
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They have little effect on the muscle tension because it's not the same thing they target -- it's a conscious (well, sort of) movement of your muscles. Unless they paralyzed you, they wouldn't really help :)
Also, I suggest tylenol for headaches instead of ibuprofen. Ibuprofen works well for body aches and pains, but I've found it to be a very poor "pain reliever." It's a very nice anti-inflammatory though. Tylenol is the opposite. Aspirin is a nice both, but not as effective for either I find. Also, don't combine aspirin and ibuprofen. It's bad. Brain bleeds and stuff can pop up, especially with the increased blood pressure from stimulants.
You're describing migraine headaches, I think, though (I don't get that almost ever, personally -- my headaches are different places). Those are notoriously difficult to treat with pain meds. By the way, you do develop a tolerance to these things (just like meth), you know. So bear that in mind. The tolerance doesn't protect your organs as they filter it out of your blood though, unfortunately, so upping the dose to make them work carries with it that added risk.
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Not trying to be argumentative, but trigger points can indeed be indirectly caused by meth use. I really respect this community and have enjoyed many of your posts SelfS. Cross my heart :) I'm not trying to be contradictive just for the sake of it. I have many years of experience treating trigger points and I can tell you for sure that everyone has them. Whether or not they hurt is dependent upon the body's current state. As we all know meth is hard on the body.
According to Wikipedia (sorry for the pathetic source, I don't have access to my textbooks ATM) trigger points can be caused by, "disease, psychological distress (via systemic inflammation), homeostatic imbalances, direct trauma to the region, accident trauma (such as a car accident which stresses many muscles and causes instant trigger points) radiculopathy, infections and health issues such as smoking."
*If there are any trigger point virgins out there who want to release those nasty suckers here are a couple of places where they can easily be found. One of the most common ones you can find is located around the center of the shoulder blade. They can also frequently occur along the edge of the scapula toward the spine. Let me know if you find one. It's an odd experience the first time you find one. One moment your enjoying a nice message then the next your thinking, "Where the hell did that come from?!! OUCH!" Releasing these trigger points for me personally seems to ease the muscle tension in my neck.
Because everyone's body is so different what might help one might not help another unfortunately. If only drug use could be consequence free *sigh* if only if only...For me personally, 600mg of ibuprofen (prescription) helps my headaches. My theory is that it eases the inflammation caused by the oxidization of excess dopamine in the brain. Dehydration causes a very specific type of headache, at least for my head anyway lol. It's like a dull, broad, ache that stretches across my forehead from temple to temple. These types of headaches only occur when I'm using stimulants excessively or am not drinking enough water.
Definitely agree regarding the head bleeds. Those can really put a kink on your weekend plans ;-)
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Er...? I didn't realize I said anything contradictory to you about trigger points -- infact I deliberately didn't comment on that at all, because I know almost nothing about them. I'm confused... lol.
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Well, sorry if I accidentally belittled you or something you feel strongly about. I didn't mean to. If I may though: your brain itself has no nociceptors (pain receptors). None. At all. Not a single one, that's why they can do open brain surgery on people and poke at them :P
Headaches are actually the meninges, which is a squishy sponge-like barrier between your brain and skull. It softens the impact if you hit your head or whip it around fast so your brain doesn't splat on the inside of your head :)
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Oh, you said nothing at all to offend or contradict. I was just scarred of offending or seeming argumentative toward you lol. I have a bit of social anxiety IRL and on Internet forums as well haha I know how weird that is . I've been a long time lurker on the forums for months and months now and the thought of coming off as one of those pushy, annoying poster terrifies me lol. It's especially anxiety provoking because I'm a newbie and your like one of the top five meth posters and I enjoy your posts very much. :)
Thanks for the info regarding the meninges. It's been a while since A&P...I really regret not taking better notes during the neuro units lol. Can the meninges themselves become inflamed from excess dopamine stimulation? Come to think of it I don't see how being as how the neurotransmitters are not located in these areas (if my hazy memory serves me correct.) I recently read a study regarding meth use inducing "brain hyperthermia." Perhaps this is a contributing factor for meth headaches?
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Ooo, that I can't tell you... that's beyond my level of knowledge, sorry. The dopamine inflammation bit, I mean.
Meth can definitely induce hyperthermia. It frequently does. Infact I very strongly recommend that if you do meth, you should stay away from very hot areas or at least do everything you can to compensate for them. A pretty big amount of the damage done by meth can mediated by just staying cool (well, in white mice that's how it is anyway).
Neurotransmitters is a really... hazy kind of term. They're actually the chemicals themselves. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter. They're all over your body. Receptors sites are too, actually -- there are dopamine receptors in your intestines, for instance. There's like a dozen different kinds of dopamine though, so... it isn't saying as much as you might think to say you have dopamine in your stomach, hah.
Don't feel anxious or nervous or anything. I know how you feel... believe it or not, some of those posts you're referring to practically keep me up at night with shame sometimes. I know one other meth user here who has social anxiety actually (no names, of course). I always found it odd that weed will almost paralyze me with social anxiety, but meth doesn't make me nervous or anxious unless I do a whoooooole lot of it. It helps me sometimes to remind myself that if I let it, fear will steal my entire life from me. Either I just grit my teeth and put up with it, or I let fear take good things away from me and avoid the awkward anxiety.
Anyway, I'm glad you're choosing to post. Welcome :)
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Sleep deprivation causes this, I don't know if it's the stimulant itself.
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we see people with a $100 dollar a day heroin habit and $100 dollar a day meth/crack habit, that's how they deal with it. but then they die on the street corner in their 40's
I'd suggest adderall script with valium and maybe xanax (but valium and ativan combo preferred for muscle issues)
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we see people with a $100 dollar a day heroin habit and $100 dollar a day meth/crack habit, that's how they deal with it. but then they die on the street corner in their 40's
I'd suggest adderall script with valium and maybe xanax (but valium and ativan combo preferred for muscle issues)
I have no idea what this means, but I may die on a street corner in my 40s. I hope not, but I may; can't say I won't until I actually die, now can I.
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Hmmm. In some of my past Ritalin binges(which were never more than 36 waking hours long), about, the 18th hour in. I've had this thingwhere for about ten seconds a searing pain(a sensation similar to what I imagine it feels like to be starving and your body starts breaking down your organs for energy, but more concentrated and stronger) will rip through my abdomen. and then I feel fine(or as fine as you can feel during your 30th hour in a Ritalin binge). It's only happened twice, but was distinctly memorable both times.
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You can reduce those body aches and such by a significant portion , if you just lay down and rest for as little as an hour or 2 at night. Even if you dont achieve actual sleep, just resting your mind and body for awhile will make a big difference improving your mental and physical condition. Also try to eat a little - a V8 or a milkshake I found are good for when you cant manage any solid foods. Make sure to drink enough fluids also.
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Thanks for your replies, everyone :)
I've been experiencing the aches, soreness, and some (minor) joint pain after only 6-8 hours. I have been getting at least 5 hours of sleep per night and have not been redosing more than once. I also have been eating three meals per day (admittedly small) and trying to drink water regularly. I take 50 mg Vyvanse daily in the morning, so could the tension be a result of the Vyvanse and methamp together? Each time I take meth, I'm just taking a small bump or very thin line.
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Zip: I'd be careful with the Vyvance/meth combo. Up until a couple of months ago I was taking 70mg Vyvance daily along with meth. After a little research I found out that Vyvance and meth produce cross tolerance. Long story short, I found that combining the two only leads to an increase in tolerance to stims, increased dehydration/body aches and decreased euphoria :(.
When I cut out the Vyvance, took two day breaks every week and started taking DXM and magnesium, my tolerance went down enough to where I could actually feel a bit of euphoria from the meth. That's my story for what it's worth ;). Happy tweakin'
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Yeah, MsMetheMethics is right. Cross tolerance is a bitch... adderall, dexedrine, vyvanse, desoxyn, meth, speed -- basically they all share more or less the same tolerance level. If you didn't realize it, meth will totally fuck up the effectiveness of your ADHD meds. As in kill it entirely.
Just FYI. Informed decisions and all that, ya know.
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heyperthermia is a bitch. You would be surprised how fast it can get out of control. Also, sometimes aches and pains mean dehydration and your kidneys need a drink. Have you checked your blood pressure?
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Hypothermia? I always feel really cold on amphetamines.
Unless you feel colder because you have a higher body temperature. and then you warm up your environment to make yourself comfortable. Is that how it works?
and why would that be a problem?
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Yeah, MsMetheMethics is right. Cross tolerance is a bitch... adderall, dexedrine, vyvanse, desoxyn, meth, speed -- basically they all share more or less the same tolerance level. If you didn't realize it, meth will totally fuck up the effectiveness of your ADHD meds. As in kill it entirely.
Just FYI. Informed decisions and all that, ya know.
Yes, I did notice this SS. I've realized that I should only be taking a bump of meth if I'm not on the Vyvanse and visa-versa (sp?). I had a suspicion the pains and aches were coming from this combo, but I wasn't completely sure. After a day or two of avoiding the mix I've noticed a definite improvement. No pain, no aches, no sore muscles. I've also taken Memantine to help lower the tolerance a bit so I can get back to taking just Vyvanse as usual and then maybe taking meth one day every once in a while instead of the Vyvanse. It's incredible how well meth kills ADD med tolerance. I mean, I was taking 50 mg Vyvanse (which isn't the highest, but it isn't a baby dose either) and getting substantial results but after just one bump of meth the Vyvanse seemed like a small bit of caffeinated sugar lol. Thanks for the tips SS.
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Sleep deprivation causes this, I don't know if it's the stimulant itself.
I think this also, I only get muscle tension after being up for 24+ hrs on it. It goes away pretty quick if you sleep, eat, and drink water.
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Hypothermia? I always feel really cold on amphetamines.
Unless you feel colder because you have a higher body temperature. and then you warm up your environment to make yourself comfortable. Is that how it works?
and why would that be a problem?
So here's irony for you: amphetamines make me feel cold too. Usually. Welllll... at low to mid doses they do. If I'm on a run with meth or chewing down 100mg of adderall every hour for a day or two or something, I get hot. Like really mother fucking hot, I'll be sweating like a pig sometimes in a 65 degree room. That's hyperthermia. It's very bad, and you want to help your body stay cool by lowering the ambient temperature if possible (A/C or something) or at least setting up a fan to help you. Not just for comfort, I'm saying it's been proven in clinical lab environments to noticeably reduce the neurological damage associated with meth abuse. Oh, but with a fan, try not to blow it in your eyes. It makes bloodshot, tweaker-looking eyes even more bloodshot and crazy looking. It also makes them itchy and just generally is really bad for your eyes to be that dry.
Hyperthermia is hyper -- too high. Hypothermia is hypo -- too low. They sound too similar, but they're the opposites of eachother. So it's very dose dependent, but meth always seems to cause hyperthermia faster and with less. I don't really know why. I don't think it's that it's just plain stronger, becausae that hasn't really been my experience with it. I think it's more likely that meth in particular just has a more powerful effect on your body's heat regulation systems as a quirk of the methylated amphetamine molecule. Who knows though.
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Hypothermia? I always feel really cold on amphetamines.
Unless you feel colder because you have a higher body temperature. and then you warm up your environment to make yourself comfortable. Is that how it works?
and why would that be a problem?
If the coldness is isolated in your feet and hands then what you experience is pretty common. Although meth does cause hyperthermia, it also induces peripheral vasoconstriction. Peripheral vasoconstriction is what causes your hands and to feel cold Here's a quote from a study I found on pubmed.
"[meth causes] hyperthermia associated with relative skin hypothermia, suggesting metabolic activation coupled with peripheral vasoconstriction"
Pretty weird eh?