Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: Tunbear on January 10, 2013, 12:15 pm
-
I ordered something off someone who required me to FE, and I did, as they seem trustworthy.
However the listing was taken down after I ordered them, and after 9 days I contacted them to say it hadn't arrived and I was worried they didn't have it in stock and were waiting for more stock, and just stringing me along in the hopes of keeping the sale. This turned out to be true, he said he was getting more in stock in a few days.
Thing is, I said to him this is out of order and shouldn't be done, just to give me a refund and I won't leave a low score because sometimes vendors pull this shit and I don't think it's fair to potentially ruin their business because of 1 mistake.
He didn't get back to me so I left a full feedback and a 1/5..this lowered his score to 91. So then he suddenly appears and says hes not been online, will refund me right away and to please change the score.
Now this is where it's a problem. As a vendor myself, I know how damaging a lowering of the score is if you get 1 bad feedback, so I have to change it to 5/5. But this guy deserves a bad score and what he did to be noted.
My point is, the odd fuck up that results in a 1/5 can cause a massive problem for vendors and it seems a bit shit. Does anyone else feel we need to change the weighting of the scores so that we can leave bad scores without the possibility of destroying a vendor's credibility ?
-
That's a huge problem indeed.
We've had a recent situation where one particular user, Nederland83 (he is on many sellers profiles in the blacklist section, unfortunately we didn't see it earlier), purchased our cheapest listing and gave us 1/5. Our rating dropped from 100% to 98.7%, and we process more than 300 transactions per month. It took 3 weeks of constant 5/5 feedbacks to bring '100' back. This puts us in great stress and slowly leads us towards selling only to known customers.
Right now it's just too easy for unfair vendors to bomb other vendors with few cheap purchases.
-
I definitely see your point, and I can't say that I disagree with the premise... but isn't that kind of the point? I mean for bad feedback to reduce a vendor's rating proportionately based on the amount of money of the listing being rated and how recent the transaction was?
Perhaps you're being slightly too sympathetic toward a vendor not as upfront as yourself? I do think there should be a utility to scan the blacklisted buyers and compare the names and addresses against a new order, so that you guys can at least have some kind of protection without checking the list manually all day long... but the guy asked you to FE for an item he didn't even have in his possession yet. Personally I think a 5/5 is a little bit much, unless you were aware of it prior to ordering...
-
Agree with SS on all points.
The problem isn't that a 1/5 gives a huge drop in your vendor rating...
It's that vendors place way too much emphasis on having a perfect 100 rating. If you want a 100 rating, you better be fucking perfect with every single order you do. If someone has a 98 rating, that is indicative of a vendor who is extremely good, but human, and therefore, prone to a mistake every blue moon.
However if someone has a 100 rating, to me, its indicative of a vendor who probably puts pressure on any customer that leaves anything but a 5/5 rating regardless of how good the service was. In my opinion, it should be against the rules to give a 5/5 rating for a non-recieved package. If you are refunded, you still don't have what you paid for. Instead, you have a few wasted weeks of waiting for a product that never arrives.
Obviously some packages get picked up completely randomly by customs, but that's really a matter of stealth. Its extremely rare for LSD to be intercepted due to blotters being rediculously easy to stealth. If this is the case, it means that with 'perfect' stealthing, nearly 100% of orders should get through.
Over time, this will get rid of the rediculous notion that a 100 rating is an absolute requirement for every sub-par vendor out there.
-
but the guy asked you to FE for an item he didn't even have in his possession yet. Personally I think a 5/5 is a little bit much, unless you were aware of it prior to ordering...
i also see it this way. to ask for fe and than not even having that item and keeping the money for days without notifying is a total no go (if that really was the truth).
with the rating system i think a extra more in detail page would be good. so where you see how much % of customers gave 5/5, how many 1/5 etc and than could directly click on maybe the 1/5 to show all that gave 1/5 with their complain, date and poduct they bought from that vendor.
like with e.g. budsupplies who sells weed all the time and than one single customer gives a 1/5 and writes it was brixed shit you can very well judge by yourself when he is the only one from hundreds that it most probably is a opponent vendor or guy trying to get the money back. (but you cant see that if you just see the overall %).
-
This thread is going to be HUGE!
It's about time we spoke about the pink elephant standing in the living room.
I've only had to give a 4/5 so far, and we're talking over 30 transactions. It was for a vendor who package arrived crushed, a DVD case like it had been stepped on. Half of the 100 Valium (which were shitty generics from India, not as advertized) were powder.
I first told them about it, and they immediately came down on me and whipped out the word "SCAMMER". Which hurts someone when they've strived to keep 0 refunds and 0 auto-finalizes.
Then they offered to throw in an extra 20 with my next order. - I said "No Thanks, I think we're done here", and left a 4 out of 5, saying "I wont be back"
I like the power of the 1-5 rating system. I couldn't leave a 1, but just taking them down a notch to a 4, is enough to get my point across about bad sportsmanship, if you will.
Though I think you should leave your buyers handle "jagfug69" etc in the FB. I've actually done it to help vendors who were getting a few unjust "1" reviews, and said "jagfug on forums" just to show
my credibility and that I wasn't a shill account for the vendor.
Peace
jagfug
-
but the guy asked you to FE for an item he didn't even have in his possession yet. Personally I think a 5/5 is a little bit much, unless you were aware of it prior to ordering...
i also see it this way. to ask for fe and than not even having that item and keeping the money for days without notifying is a total no go (if that really was the truth).
with the rating system i think a extra more in detail page would be good. so where you see how much % of customers gave 5/5, how many 1/5 etc and than could directly click on maybe the 1/5 to show all that gave 1/5 with their complain, date and poduct they bought from that vendor.
like with e.g. budsupplies who sells weed all the time and than one single customer gives a 1/5 and writes it was brixed shit you can very well judge by yourself when he is the only one from hundreds that it most probably is a opponent vendor or guy trying to get the money back. (but you cant see that if you just see the overall %).
Some great suggestions in here, especially the 'filter' option which would allow you to view all feedbacks within each 'number' aka 1/5, 2/5, etc.
Is there any possibility that a new mathematical method can be used for the rating system which would allow for people to place < 5/5 without doing a serious dent to the vendors overall % and ego?
It appears that many - as with myself, choose vendors who are 95% and above, and if one buyer with malicious intent can decrease a vendors overall % substantially by purchasing a small order with the intent to leave 1/5 surely there is a way to combat this? I have seen in this forum that the criteria for determining how much % a score has is based on the buyers previous feedback, so how does that determine if that buyer is constantly leaving lower scores?
makku
-
They need to define the rating scores so that people know what to put for feedback. A lot of vendors basically threaten you into a 5/5 feedback or to FE. Each number should have something beside it to guide the buyer kind of like they do on the NADA website for used cars. Excellent, Good Fair Bad Terrible, etc.. Sellers should have to meet a certain definition to get the 5/5 feedback. I want to leave 4/5 sometimes I will not buy from most vendors unless they have 300 transactions. I have dealt with some as low as 18 feedback and no one on here has ever screwed me. Its easier to get fucked by PayPal and Ebay than it is on SR unless you deal with people who make demands contrary to the SR policy. If you FE early then really you do not have a right to complain you got fucked because you broke the GOLDEN rule. Never FE early. If yo have a good feedback no one should ever ask you to do that.
That being said. The vendor you dealt with sounds like he is a liar and held your money so I would give them shit 1 feedback that they deserve and would make them send your stuff but that does not make it a 5. It still happened and others need to know this seller sucks and needs to be avoided.
-
To me the issue seems to be more the fact that people rarely rate 2s, 3s, and 4s. It's either a 5 or a 1. I see people complain about certain things and still give 5/5 and it's like...why? Why didn't you just give a 4 or a 3? I feel like it doesn't give a proper impression of the vendor when they have 100 rating but complaints all over the feedback.
-
I do think there should be a utility to scan the blacklisted buyers and compare the names and addresses against a new order, so that you guys can at least have some kind of protection without checking the list manually all day long... but the guy asked you to FE for an item he didn't even have in his possession yet. Personally I think a 5/5 is a little bit much, unless you were aware of it prior to ordering...
Can't compare addresses as keeping addresses is against SR rules and dangerous for everyone involved.
One thing I learned in my short time here is that tracking is essential. Without the tracking there will always be back and forth between customers and vendors, with customers saying that they have been selectively scammed, and vendors saying the customers scammed them.
-
Good point, but I was thinking about something DPR or some staff member said (I honestly don't even remember where I read it) saying that the actual names of blacklisted members may be shared in the private vendor forums to ensure throw away accounts can't get around it with ease.
-
To clarify
He had no stock at all.
He still requested me to finalize early
I was unaware at this point
---10 days later
realized he took the listings down after i ordered, in my head i knew what was going on. (oh thing to remember he didn't know i was a vendor i don't shop with my vendor account). so messaged him saying i can see whats going on you're gonna try string me along...show me the post receipt and i'l believe you've sent it
doesn't reply
I made a point of saying i need the money back i don't care if you've tried to swindle me i'll still leave a 5/5 just refund me my money.
after leaving a 1/5 so his score dropped to a 91 he messages me back, i get a refund..not even for the amount ha. but after much back and forth i got all my money.
he apologized and offered me some other stuff but by this point i don't want anything to do with him.
-
To clarify
He had no stock at all.
He still requested me to finalize early
I was unaware at this point
---10 days later
realized he took the listings down after i ordered, in my head i knew what was going on. (oh thing to remember he didn't know i was a vendor i don't shop with my vendor account). so messaged him saying i can see whats going on you're gonna try string me along...show me the post receipt and i'l believe you've sent it
doesn't reply
I made a point of saying i need the money back i don't care if you've tried to swindle me i'll still leave a 5/5 just refund me my money.
after leaving a 1/5 so his score dropped to a 91 he messages me back, i get a refund..not even for the amount ha. but after much back and forth i got all my money.
he apologized and offered me some other stuff but by this point i don't want anything to do with him.
in the end its all based on trust. just as example (its not the case but what it could be): you are a vendor and he is a vendor and he is selling a product that is in competition with yours. so you make all this up to get rid of him.......
thats the problem with sr. it only works with trust and good ppl. thats why a good detailed rating system is so important, so that you can decide on the amount of information/customers.
i had not one single problem with all the orders i received yet, but i also only bought from guys with many transactions/good stats and also researched the forums before ordering (so it was only weed/benzos/speed, maybe thats a more unproblematic area) and of course - maybe most important - i always use small orders so that a loss would never be a problem. unfortunately there is no way you can make out selective scammers on both sides (not send/not received) and thats sad because it increases prizes/cuts profits and the majority of honest buyers/sellers has to pay for it.
because you got a least your money back even after finalizing i would give him a 2 or 3 but write what was wrong in the text field(!).
-
Oddly enough, I left my first 1 out of 5. For CrystalMethCat - who "currently has no listings"
Well here's the feedback, I think it tells the whole story. Thank God (DPR) for the "edit" function
1g of my current GOOD SPEED PASTE ! CrystalMethCat(96) 1 of 5 Marked shipped Dec 14, then asks to FE on the 24th!!!- I agree-even though I'm in US, not on her "FE" countries list. Jan 10 2013- still no package. If not a scammer, than just a shitty vendor, that doesn't know what the fuck they're doing. Probably shoddy stealth/packaging, that's why so many don't make it. Either that, or selective scammer. Lesson learned. She can make it right with a re-ship, and this FB disappears, and becomes a "5". I have impeccable stats, so no scammer on my end. Just want a lousy gram of shitty German speed. 19 days ago edit
Perfect example of a "shitty vendor" that should fail the "pass or fail" test for a good vendor.
-
If this site is too continue to prosper then there needs to be a overhaul in the FB system. There is far too many FEs and then no update as to what the outcome was. People worried about giving a 3 or 4 in case of offending the vendor.. for fucks sake some of these vendors are coining it in! £15-20 a gram here in the uk for skunk, its a joke, most of it quick dried and uncured.
If the service or product was not up too standard then voice it here and on the feedback form. If a vendor wants to blacklist you for not giving 5/5 then start a topic on here and shout about it. As long as you have a warranted reason to be unhappy its fine, not some delusional story about the cops visiting you.
The reason I come on here and pay the premium is to receive a better standard of product to what I can get on the street. Recently this has not been the case and my fb has reflected this. If we don't make the FB system work then it will deteriorate further and we might as go back to buying on the street.
-
I agree with a lot of the posts here. First, that vendors (and buyers) need to stop thinking that having a rating other than 100 is completely unacceptable; having a 98 is not the end of the world; everybody's going to have a transaction go wrong at some point, or a buyer who refuses to work things out. I've been on SR for almost a year and I don't get concerned unless feedback is below 95.
Also, vendors threatening to get 5/5 is totally unacceptable. The feedback system is here so that buyers can be HONEST about how their transactions went, so anyone who insists on a 5/5 and issues threats about giving anything but a 5/5 should raise a lot of red flags.
Ahuhol, think the checkboxes for certain categories is also an awesome idea. It's more valuable to know where a vendor's strengths and weaknesses are, instead of just seeing an aggregated number.
So much good thinking here! Hopefully the SR powers that be will listen and make some much needed changes!
-
As a buyer i tend to give most of my weight when looking for a vendor to the forum threads / vendor activity on forum / PM the vendor and see how he replies / feedbacks on SR - and only after that to the rating unless its suspiciously low.
as they say,
if its one person ohh well.
two... ok
3.... hmmm
4... be carefull.
so i wouldn't worry too much about the number itself as a vendor - my best vendor has 96 :)
-
Noobs, Listen to the man. Ratings mean very little. As a buyer you should always check the forums for any big orders.
You all know the ratings are fluffed better than a male pornostar.
-
To clarify
He had no stock at all.
He still requested me to finalize early
I was unaware at this point
---10 days later
realized he took the listings down after i ordered, in my head i knew what was going on. (oh thing to remember he didn't know i was a vendor i don't shop with my vendor account). so messaged him saying i can see whats going on you're gonna try string me along...show me the post receipt and i'l believe you've sent it
doesn't reply
I made a point of saying i need the money back i don't care if you've tried to swindle me i'll still leave a 5/5 just refund me my money.
after leaving a 1/5 so his score dropped to a 91 he messages me back, i get a refund..not even for the amount ha. but after much back and forth i got all my money.
he apologized and offered me some other stuff but by this point i don't want anything to do with him.
in the end its all based on trust. just as example (its not the case but what it could be): you are a vendor and he is a vendor and he is selling a product that is in competition with yours. so you make all this up to get rid of him.......
thats the problem with sr. it only works with trust and good ppl. thats why a good detailed rating system is so important, so that you can decide on the amount of information/customers.
i had not one single problem with all the orders i received yet, but i also only bought from guys with many transactions/good stats and also researched the forums before ordering (so it was only weed/benzos/speed, maybe thats a more unproblematic area) and of course - maybe most important - i always use small orders so that a loss would never be a problem. unfortunately there is no way you can make out selective scammers on both sides (not send/not received) and thats sad because it increases prizes/cuts profits and the majority of honest buyers/sellers has to pay for it.
because you got a least your money back even after finalizing i would give him a 2 or 3 but write what was wrong in the text field(!).
That doesn't make much sense. For one I buy stuff under a separate account as to hide my identity. For 2 I gave him plenty of chances to sort it out and I'd still leave 5/5, it wasn't until I left the 1/5 that I got my refund. For 3, I never named him and for 4 after I got my refund I changed my score...
-
Rating do matter to vendors, no vendor wants to be rated way below 80 or so - some even feel bad because they are 98, but for me, the high 90s is cool because some customers are scammers and pains in the ass!
Customers rating, on the other hand, do not include how much they lost to scammers! I lost a fair bit - nothing I could not lose anyway but it sucks to be rippee off and sucks ot have your stats hit by a bad trader selling rubbish!
Anyway, I bought off a trader or two who were struggling - its easy for one to get a bad batch of anything, and unless the trader uses that substance they may move a fair bit before feedback warns others off.
The ratings system is the best way to score traders and buyers - its not perfect but beter than just buying blind, not knowing if the reports were positive or negative for the last batch!
I never had to rate anyone less than 5/5 apart from the Canadian Tony who fucked the rioad of FE (more fools us for giving FE) and also some UK crew selling street coke - was promised a refund but never happened. Still, it was my own fault because any street on the UK selling coke is selling shit coke anyways.
I actually rate a trrader on all levels. No is is quality. Then timing, and weight plus was it safely wrapped? Also, I like traders with good manners and to be fair whenever I have had to communicate most are pretty pleasant here.
In the street, taking back a 'bad coke' you would need a gun - here - you can simply message - and iat least we havenot got any violent potential here!
So, well done SR and best of luckl for 2013.
And all the Mayan calander guys? lol - Sold the books but we got no end of the world! Just as well, I got some hash to smoke!
Later fellow law breakers.
;D