Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: Razorspyne on December 29, 2012, 08:14 pm
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I see a lot of simultaneous threads on SR that could be merged as they are about exactly the same thing, and unnecessary threads clog up the screen. That’s the main reason I don’t kre-8 them. The other reason is, my first (and only) thread was pretty unpopular with most (not all) because of the subject, and it generated some lousy comments after which I thought, let’s not do THAT again, Bob.
Here’s hoping this one is different. Some posts I’ve read indicate a little advice/discussion on chemicals that make you happy, is lacking. There have been too many comments on genuine depression, lethargy, and people just being in a really shitty mood for days on end (Joywind?). Some of this comes from a lack of the right chemicals, and if they don’t rectify it becomes a habitual vicious cycle which some drugs can unfortunately exacerbate.
This thread doesn’t have to be kept alive forever; I just want to get some feedback on what foods/activities (mainly foods) taken to punch depression and low energy in the groin and has helped them get out of a depressive, or unmotivated slump.
I’m not a doctor and don’t claim to be an expert. Gimme a holla if you want to call something out where you’ve heard different.
There’s a jerry-load of information on clearnet so pasting this is not going to be productive, but a couple of sites that deal with happy chemicals are:
http://io9.com/5818371/the-chemicals-that-make-you-happy--no--not-those Wraps it up in a few words
http://altered-states.net/barry/newsletter185/index.htm Goes into more detail
http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/59029/happy-chemicals.pdf Explains it bas-ic-all-y. Drug-friendly format for when you’re off you face and can’t be stuffed reading slabs of information.
A shout out to TreeSpirit for her continued helpful advice on the forums on these matters, including the pasting of the addy
http://www.raptitude.com/2009/04/how-to-always-have-something-better-to-talk-about-than-the-weather Overcoming shyness and other neat stuff
Just to reiterate, I want some information from people who have actually encountered this problem and can say what chemicals/foods/things they did, to kick this problem, and not some lab coat with technically the right answers, but no prior experience.
Thanks.
Raz
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I'll be honest with you. I gave up. I mean I basically did. I think I just got dealt a shitty hand and my brain will never be anything but depressed. Regular exercise definitely does help though. Some antidepressants help too. Not very much, but they do.
The older I get, the more I notice that my diet makes a difference in how I feel physically. It never really seems to do anything psychologically for me, though. I mean tons of vegetables, some fruit, lots of greens and lettuce and stuff -- right after I go shopping I have all this great stuff, and I eat perfectly for a few days until it runs out and I just don't really feel like getting up and going to get more veggies right away, ya know. But I notice at least half the time that I just... feel better. Lighter and faster hurrying up flights of stairs, that sort of thing.
Meth probably isn't a good drug to keep you happy long-term. It gets awfully dark sometimes, I'll say that much. As crazy as it sounds though, I think I'm actually happier doing it regularly than I was before I ever tried it though, ironically enough... hard to really say objectively though. Different times in my life, and all.
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As much as it sounds like doctor talk, the above is correct. Only difference that the doctor won't tell you is that you really have to be ready to do it - and properly
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Meth probably isn't a good drug to keep you happy long-term. It gets awfully dark sometimes, I'll say that much. As crazy as it sounds though, I think I'm actually happier doing it regularly than I was before I ever tried it though, ironically enough... hard to really say objectively though. Different times in my life, and all.
... Jesus. It's obviously not so good for keeping you coherent and well-spoken after a few days, either. Fuck man, I go from lucid and coherent for a couple of days to fucking broken and falling all over my own words. Yeah. Meth is great -- suuuree ::)
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I got out of my depression without chemicals. I wrote it down once how. I am sharing it here, hopefully it can help others as well.
I am sharing this because I want to share hope. So if your world sometimes gets so dark that you lose hope in everything, but mostly in yourself, here is my story.
I started my life in a rocky way. And I couldn't see what made life worth it. I was told repeatedly by my mother that I was not good enough, that it was better if I was not alive. Even though I couldn't see the worth of life, I was determined to make best out of my life. I always tried hard to be a good kid, a good person, a good friend, a good student and later a good wife. I became depressed every couple of years. My first real break from that was that I learned that I have power! I had power to look within, to see why I was reacting. Not blaming anybody else, or circumstances.
I always been a very spiritual person and awareness and mindfulness got bigger and bigger. This is how I could observe the depression coming in. I was at my internship. I was often in panic. I felt like I couldn't become a [edited because of privacy] and that I failed people. I fled to the meditation room to sit and come to myself. I felt the dark and numbing cloud of depression chilling me. I observed this happening. This is how I could finally see what was there just before the depression started to cloud everything. For me, it was the humongous amounts of pressure that I put on myself to always do my best, not allowing any mistakes. The feeling of failing and not being able to cope with my internship and my life and then my self hate would set in. Finally I saw how much my striving was costing me.
And then the worst 2 years of my life began. [edited because of privacy]
My life had shattered once again. I couldn't think anymore, I didn't recognized the street I was living in and I didn't have the attention span to read anything.
Rock bottom was hit. What has this brought me? I was so in pieces, I had no choice but to show up with who I was and I slowly got myself up again. This is what helped me.
Showing up like you are
Being true with how you are feeling. Not trying to be anything else. When I was angry, I went to a remote forest and screamed the unfairness of it all. When I cried, I would huddle up and have a good cry. When I was laughing, I would enjoy it. And very importantly... Not judging myself for feeling what I felt or judging my abilities at that point.
Taking care of what you need
Asking myself: what do I need? What do I want? Sometimes it was going to back to bed. Sometimes a bath. Going out for a walk. Calling a friend.
No reasons, just because I wanted it. I was allowing myself fun. For the first time in my life. Just doing things because it would fun for me. Not trying to get anywhere, no goal, just for me.
Finding out what made my life worth living it
My passion has always been [edited because of privacy]. So even though I couldn't do much, not even read, I went back to my uni and just showed up. Even though I couldn't do anything more than to just be there.
Showing up meant also, not forcing anything. Just taking my time. Some days I couldn't get myself out of bed. And I respected that. No need to beat myself up for it. No need to wish it was different, just trust it would change. Because life changes all the time.
Trust
Even though some days were hell, I trusted in the flow of life. That life events have meaning, that it would bring me what I need. I went through a lot, but it is also true I was still alive.
Expressing
I wrote a lot. I talked and chatted to people, sharing my grief. If I didn't deal with, it would be inside me and fester.
Knowledge
Slowly I could read a bit. I read up on loss and grieving. I read on Tiny Buddha. I read quotes. I would search for lots of knowledge, so I could understand what was going on. So I could cultivate understanding for myself and find some comfort.
I choose light
In very dark moments when I wanted to give up on everything: I had my mantra: I choose light, I choose light, I choose LIGHT! I didn't want to be sucked in thinking and feeling even darker than things were. I would choose on those moments to be real and see what I could do right in that moment of despair. And if everything failed to come to my mind, I would just watch tv or stumble on the internet. But stop my mind from making dark and the most pessimistic rendering of what happened and the future.
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I still feel down sometimes, but never depressed.
Food is a huge factor, if I eat crappy, I feel crappy.
If I forget my HTP 5, I feel down too.
If there is something wrong, like somebody crossed my boundaries and I don't act on that, it (sadness and/or anger) turns inwards.
And the thing is, you just get dark thoughts and you blame it on yourself or circumstances, but when I take care of myself, life is much easier and more pleasant.
Surrounding myself with good people, good vibes and doing things that I truly want is what helps me.
Tiny Buddha (simple wisdom for complex lives) is a site that I love. Take for example this article about anxiety: (clearnet warning)
http://tinybuddha.com/blog/the-gift-of-anxiety-7-ways-to-get-the-message-and-find-peace/
LSD and psilocybin helped me with insight and healing. MDMA helped me with seeing patterns that I have.
I have to be careful with drugs. I sometimes want to lose control and forget and just have fun. It is so nice when I use, but after I am wonky and down (and then wanting to do more!).
And Razorspyne, you are a sweety.
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Great thread Razorspyne.
I'll avoid spiritual guff and biography. Some people just got dealt shitty lives, so being depressed is normal / correct brain response. Improving life is the only solution there.
Lets get back to chemistry. Using drugs over time will down-regulate your normal brain chemistry. This is terrible, nobody wants to lose their capacity for happiness. Not for just getting high now and then.
First thing.. eat well. Your brain needs those precursors to create the neurotransmitters for happiness. The good news, happy food is tasty - chocolate, pork, red meat. No wonder vegetarians are moody, emo bastards. Enjoy those greasy hamburgers.
Second thing.. moderation. Redose too much in one night, you burn your axons. Keep taking drugs days or weeks at a time, the brain down-regulates. Have straight / clear days and weeks and let your brain recover. The brain goes back to normal 7 days after MDMA use, for example, and 30 days after THC. Switch from serotonin drugs (Meph / MDMA) to dopamine ones (Cocaine), to cannabanoids, to tryptamines. Maybe GABA based drugs (eg Alcohol) but I'd avoid that class if you want to avoid depression. In other words, rotate your use so that each exploited brain system has time to recover.
Third ... up-regulation / adjusting. Nootropics and some low-dose drugs can have a positive effect on the pathways your brain needs for happiness. Look up low-dose ketamine for restoring glutamate pathways. I don't know shit about shit, so do your own research here.. but remember that this step should be temporary. Your brain needs to return to natural equilibrium. If anyone has more info on strategies here, please post.
For Interest
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Single dose Ketamine for Depression :
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-news/2006/experimental-medication-kicks-depression-in-hours-instead-of-weeks.shtml
"To my knowledge, this is the first report of any medication or other treatment that results in such a pronounced, rapid, prolonged response with a single dose. These were very treatment-resistant patients," said NIMH Director Thomas R. Insel, M.D."
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Excellent post, TheBusiness! Very true and thanks for writing that down. +1
I am more adept with spiritual 'guff' and you just rocked putting the chemistry down in clear wording.
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Thanks for posting, guys. (+1 this page) Takes me a while to post, hang in there! It’s staggering how common this is, but you wouldn’t know because some don’t disclose this, which in some ways just continues the cycle. I’ve learned that it is not just primarily about personality – someone’s “just” always happy or sad or whatever, no matter what. That’s crap. It’s about food and activities. EVERYBODY becomes happy or sad depending on what they take. I can tell you that the happiest person in the world, if kicked to an island and given lousy food, will eventually become depressed.
Sound a little like typtap, SS, from some posts. You both seem really motivated at times and then something happens (I’m just guessing here, I might be wrong) to break that momentum, and it seems psychological and not other factors. You’re ready to take over the world and all of a sudden – boom! there it is. I’m certainly like that. They should call me GoGoStop, because I go and go and then stop, and then the cycle continues. I can relate.
TY SNSD (cute pic). You look like a young doctor lol.
It’s becoming common for me to be affected by your posts TreeSpirit. I literally feel a change in the chemicals in my head when I read some of your contributions (hope that came out tight) that resembles emotion. Your words have always held wisdom. Thanks for selflessly sharing (along with SS). Means a lot! Just remember that a lot of people on SR (or at least me) are starting to appreciate you here because you have helped us on the forums with your posts, sometimes individually, and sometimes on Main, so regarding being pissed off on occasion, just chat about it with us, because we’re here to get wasted and to help.
TY for posting link TheBusiness. (I remember your thread on how to tell if using too much SR, damned HILARIOUS list, was in stitches). Correct about meat, I left that out! Didn’t know vegetarians were emos. pmsl. Funny guy. Drug/happy chemical ratio was what I was looking for, and forgot to bring up. Happy drugs vs sad drugs. I clearly need more cocaine. And bananas. Good mini tutorial. Anti-drug info on clearnet cited Ketamine and/or Ketamine withdrawals produced depression, so I decided to grab my coat and run the other way. This (Experimental Medication Kicks Depression in Hours Instead of Weeks) is a more balanced view, gives more complete picture.
I soon realised I made a mistake not mentioning happy foods. The links above will tell you the main (supposedly there’s 7) happy CHEMICALS are serotonin, dopamine and noradrenalin,
but the main happy FOODS that yield these are mainly chicken, walnuts, chocolate (preferably dark) and bananas. Different websites give a stack of happy foods but these 4 are usually agreed on.
For example check out http://www.positiveimpactmagazine.com/2012/03/23/5-happy-foods-to-boost-your-mood , and then [edit. Oh shit! I’ve just lost the link!! Sorry people ] Anyway I managed to lose link but my point is they disagree vastly and list a whole bunch of stuff, but most agree on the above. (Note; not many mentioned chicken but that is a known happy food and should be at very top of list.)
I’m reading a little on health from a [edit.] point of view (currently doing Adeptus Major segment) and while I will never discuss these studies, there is a staggering amount of information that doctors aren’t in the loop with. (Though they probably know a little more than me about health, having studied it for 6-7years!) I think if you start with food, you’re more than half way there.
I’ve never taken HPT 5 but I do take antideps, and the problem is they are fantastic at first, but by the end of the week your body has built a resistance. They could be a good choice for depression just for a week, which is sometimes enough.
Piece out muffins! Drive safely.
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It's been said by a few others, but diet and exercise are key. They'll do more for your mental health then any Drug ever could on its own imo. I spent the first 4-5 months of 2012 looking up ways to kill myself. I'd had a pretty severe panic attack in early January, brought on by lack of sleep, not eating much, and just hanging around the wrong people basically, and was prescribed a low dose Anti-Psychotic for 2 months, starting with a 2 mg, then easing down to 1mg. It helped for about the first 2 weeks maybe, allowed me to calm down and realize my paranoia wasn't justifiable and just the result of an overactive imagination. After that it just made me feel probably the shittiest I'd ever felt in my life. Most of my days from Feb-May were spent sleeping until it was time to go to work. Then I'd come home and spend most of the night online looking up Suicide Methods and browsing Suicide Pact Forums. Besides that the only think I really looked up online was as much info as I possibly could about Sadhus and their lifestyle, as part of me did and still does fantasize about leaving literally every single part of my old life behind and experiencing the rebirth/renewal that comes with taking up the life of a wandering ascetic.
Anyway, flash forward to late June/early July. I was a bit better, but still not totally against killing myself. I decided to see if there were any places online I could get Barbiturates without a prescription, just in case. One of my searches brought me to an article about Silk Road. After a few days of reading up on Bitcoins, PGP, and Tor I got some bitcoins off Ebay and figured I'd set up an account here. The first time I logged in I was totally blown away. Part of me was worried I'd never be able to smoke Weed again, as the three times I smoked it during that time frame all were a very unpleasant experience for me. Rather than go straight to Barbs, I said "Fuck it, lets see what Cannabis is going for on here.", and was amazed. I found an 8th for less than half of the street price locally, so I went ahead and ordered it. My package arrived a few days later, and I was very nervous. I probably waited a good 3 hours before I opened the package, just in case LEOs were going to kick the door down. Eventually I opened it, loaded up a bowl, and went out in the backyard for a smoke. It was hands down one of the best highs I'd ever had. Not only was I super stoned, but quite a bit of my Cynicism towards the world melted away. I was so moved that I could buy a Narcotic online from a total stranger and get exactly what I paid for and not get arrested as well.
I went back to once again being a daily toker, and started improving and coming out of my self-imposed exile. I started exercising and eating right again, and went from my lowest weight since High School (140) to the leanest and most muscular I've ever been at 175. While there are still parts of my life I definitely still want to change/improve, this is by far the best I've felt in a long time.
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Sound a little like typtap, SS, from some posts. You both seem really motivated at times and then something happens (I’m just guessing here, I might be wrong) to break that momentum, and it seems psychological and not other factors. You’re ready to take over the world and all of a sudden – boom! there it is.
It's called amphetamine. I make no excuses and I tell no lies. I am an addict through and through. Catch me on the first two days and I'm talented, motivated, and the world better fucking watch out because I plan to own it one of these days soon. And I actually make some progress toward that end, too.
By the third day I'm lucky if I'm still working and not just fucking around on the forums here or something. And then I eventually lay my tired self down into a soft, cozy bed with a nice warm meal and turn something mindless on and just sit there and marvel at the totality of infinity stretched out before me in my exhausted, spun state. And then I sleep.
And do it again. And I hope to never be unable to.
At least I don't actually try to kill myself anymore. I also get a Hell of a lot more done now, so there's that too. Everything I've come to love I need to be tweaked for. Pretty much just about everything. Without an amphetamine... I don't even care about truth so much anymore, even.
That last sentence is about as close to sacrilege as my atheistic principles can get, by the way :P
For balance, I'm caused no end of problems for my lifestyle either. I do not recommend it. But I do believe it was and still is the life I want.
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Excellent post, TheBusiness! Very true and thanks for writing that down. +1
Thanks!
TY for posting link TheBusiness. (I remember your thread on how to tell if using too much SR, damned HILARIOUS list, was in stitches).
No worries! It's damn interesting stuff. There are a shit-tonne of articles about it and the glutamate neurotransmitters since.. depression is not just about SSRIs, that's for sure.
Glad you liked the top 10 post too .. heh heh.
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I was replying when I fell asleep at the keyboard. Sorry. Thanks for input SS and Red Rama. Good to see SR members finding the line and benefiting from drug use, and not ODing or having negative effects like some people do when deeply depressed, sometimes with tragic circumstances. (New users can be vulnerable to this.) Top story Red Rama! I see that stupid BTC Shop has pushed all our threads down. Man, I’d like to smack HIS head. God you sound like me SS. I always wonder if it’s better to steam ahead (study for hours at a time) and then drop off to the point where you’re just downright bloody laconic and can’t-be-stuffed-so-pee-off, only to restart the cycle day later, or be mediocre and unfocused, but still plod along like an average shmo. Hard to figure out if it’s possible to change, let alone do it. Just gotta be yourself and burn the candle at both ends I guess.
I swear though, chicken, red meat and the above make a hell of a difference! Don’t tell me mood doesn’t affect work output and productivity. Drugs, especially antideps, should be considered for a kick-start, and then happy foods from there on. Some cite massage as the best stress reliever, but I cite sex which includes a massage anyway. Some partners are more artificial than others, and therefore ineffective, but the right girl/woman will give something that just can’t be got anywhere else. If you find someone like that, keep her, they’re rare.
Piece out! Drive safely. Don’t forget to eat. Eat some bread or some shit. Possibly monster burgers and salad or crack, I don’t know. TY for replies!
(lol TheBusiness, we gonna kick your ass in 2013. We got Brendon Goddard, who I hated this year, but now I love the guy! If we got rid of the umpires – which I’m planning on as soon as I can get a discount on multiple assassinations – we could easily beat W.C. but umpires favour your side more, so whatever lol….. )
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... I literally feel a change in the chemicals in my head when I read some of your contributions (hope that came out tight) that resembles emotion. Your words have always held wisdom. ...
Am I like a happy drug/chemical myself??! Awesome, I wish I could sell me in powder form so people could snort me. :o and LOL!
Thank you, I am glad I can mean something positive.
... so regarding being pissed off on occasion, just chat about it with us, because we’re here to get wasted and to help. ...
I never was pissed off, Razor, if you are hinting to the convo where I was misunderstood and called a 'fucking idiot'. In fact I am still giggling about that one. The only time I get really aggravated is when people are giving advice like it is fact but only based on their own experience, like 'weed is the only drug that is good' 'marijuana is not addictive'. That nonsense makes me facepalm. Any way, this is off topic rambling and I will stop that now.
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pmsl TreeSpirit! :D I don't think I would snort you, probably just talk to you! ::)
Well, if you DO get a bit down or so forth, in the future, from some troll on ICL (in cyber life) or perhaps IRL (in real life), or whatever reason, just chat with us. :)
Take care ;) Piece out.
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i love this thread.
from what i know, dairy products contain more tyramine and tyrosine than any other natural foods. those chemicals help restore serotonin and dopamine/norepinepherine in the human organism. of course over eating to get an excess of sero and dopa will never work because your brain regulates your supply at any given time. exercise seems to be more and more important as our society moves towards this lazy, convenient way of living.
before we had a society that handed us everything in exchange for currency, we would travel in packs and hunt wild animals for food/look far and wide for shelter.
obviously the human body is STILL built to do this and when you dont work off your excess energy, you are out of balance.
btw if it isnt obvious, i am on the amphetamine train as well ;D