Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: SelfSovereignty on December 14, 2012, 06:13 pm
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So I have truly pathetic chemistry knowledge and skills. I know about acid/base extractions (the high level stuff), acetone washes, solubility and all that, but only in a truly cursory way. My problem is that I take meth daily and I've come to the conclusion that even the best meth I can get my hands on is only about 50-70% pure. The other portion appears, unfortunately, to be isopropylbenzylamine or one of its close cousins.
My reasons for suspecting this aren't extensive or anything, but the cut does not seem to be psychoactively inert, it blends *beautifully* with the meth, the vaporization point is only slightly higher than meth HCl, and the shards are too brittle and break/crumble too easily in isolated sections. It's possible the cut I'm dealing with is something totally different, but iso is my best guess. So the problem is this: how the fuck do I separate my meth from this shit that dulls my mind and seems to be over time degrading my health more than the meth should be on its own?
Please understand I'm not the kind of fool who thinks meth is 100% safe. I understand what I'm doing to myself. I'm looking to pay the price for the meth. Paying the price for the other shit in these shards is not part of my "acceptable cost," frame of mind. So for one, is it possible to separate isopropylbenzylamine from methamphetamine when they're so chemically similar (even the molar mass is very similar -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropylbenzylamine)?
If so, can it be done by someone with access only to OTC chemicals, only basic glassware, and no real experience to speak of?
Either way, even if I can't do it, I do find the science itself interesting so I'd love to learn whatever I can about the process and why it is or isn't plausible. Could someone take the time to share their knowledge? I would be truly, truly grateful. This represents my daily ritual: know that whatever time you spare could easily be doing me a world of good years down the line. I will also thank you profusely :)
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shot in the dark here, but what about an acetone wash?
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shot in the dark here, but what about an acetone wash?
Got it in one soldier. :)
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shot in the dark here, but what about an acetone wash?
Got it in one soldier. :)
Meaning?
edit: Its melting point is different than meth, so you should be able to separate it from simply melting the whole thing down (clear glass surface), blow on it or apply aluminum foil under the glass to cool it down faster, the meth will recrystallize faster than the isopropylbenzylamine. so you can roll it over and pick it out
let me know if that works
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shot in the dark here, but what about an acetone wash?
Got it in one soldier. :)
Meaning?
edit: Its melting point is different than meth, so you should be able to separate it from simply melting the whole thing down (clear glass surface), blow on it or apply aluminum foil under the glass to cool it down faster, the meth will recrystallize faster than the isopropylbenzylamine. so you can roll it over and pick it out
let me know if that works
I meant an acetone wash should work fine. I was saying you were correct.
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shot in the dark here, but what about an acetone wash?
Got it in one soldier. :)
Meaning?
edit: Its melting point is different than meth, so you should be able to separate it from simply melting the whole thing down (clear glass surface), blow on it or apply aluminum foil under the glass to cool it down faster, the meth will recrystallize faster than the isopropylbenzylamine. so you can roll it over and pick it out
let me know if that works
I meant an acetone wash should work fine. I was saying you were correct.
Acetone wash might not actually cut it, but I found this alternative technique:
"try holding a lighter upside down putting the hole on the hole of the bowl (after you've already melted it down). press lighter so that the gas comes out of it directly into the bowl for like five seconds...then remove the lighter, and ignite it on top of the bowl hole . it will flame up for a minute and then it will blow out on both ends by itself. so hold it away from yourself and grasp the pipe by the middle of the neck. i was told this will get the freckles out"
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Methamphetamine is C10H15N. Isopropylbenzylamine is C10H15N. Molar mass of methamphetamine is 149.23g/mol. Isopropyl is 149.23g/mol. They're virtually identical; meth melts at 170-175 degrees. Depending on whether I'm dealing with methylbenzylamine, ethylbenzylamine, or isopropylbenzylamine, the cut melts between 180-190 degrees.
None, to my knowledge, are acetone soluble. Meaning acetone will do nothing but leech equal parts cut & meth from my product. That's not exactly what I'm after.
I was rather hoping for something I could apply en masse, as it were. But I'll be totally frank: I have absolutely no clue why in the name of God I'd want to concentrate butane and then ignite it. Exactly what is that supposed to do, other than cause a small burst of flame? I can't imagine how that would do anything except effect the very surface of the product... hrm...
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Hi there folks,
My chemistry knowledge is nonexistant, and my meth usage is frequent, so I have come here with the same urgency to find a way of purifying the 'meth' that I am consuming.
Firstly, I was under the impression that meth was not acetone soluble. Can anyone confrirm this?
Also I am now confused about the different melting points. From my own observation of using the pipe, I see the first few turns as blowing off the first cutter/solvent - this one often tastes like acetone - and is highly recommmended not to inhale this part.
As the bowl progresses, this taste disappears and we have (hopefully) the familiar taste and mouthfeel of 'meth', the melted bubble tends to get thicker and oily, recrystallises with those wonderful patterns (Mt.Fuji....spokewheels...???)
Sometimes I've scored pretty average gear that tastes and smokes badly (wet puddle with no form or surface tension, sets to a solid mess rather than recrystallises)...but after about half way through the burn, the good characteristics return to the smoke, the puddle and the recrystallised blob. I have assumed that it was cutters and impurities that are vaped off over the first half of the burn, and 'meth' that is left over towards the end. If this was the case it would be the meth that has a higher boiling point, which allows the other stuff to burn away first.
...or perhaps I am encountering other unknown chemicals in that first half of the burn, while the 'meth' bubble at the end is just a combination of meth and standard cutters.
Any informed input would be greatly appreciated here. :D
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shot in the dark here, but what about an acetone wash?
Got it in one soldier. :)
Meaning?
edit: Its melting point is different than meth, so you should be able to separate it from simply melting the whole thing down (clear glass surface), blow on it or apply aluminum foil under the glass to cool it down faster, the meth will recrystallize faster than the isopropylbenzylamine. so you can roll it over and pick it out
let me know if that works
I meant an acetone wash should work fine. I was saying you were correct.
Acetone wash might not actually cut it, but I found this alternative technique:
"try holding a lighter upside down putting the hole on the hole of the bowl (after you've already melted it down). press lighter so that the gas comes out of it directly into the bowl for like five seconds...then remove the lighter, and ignite it on top of the bowl hole . it will flame up for a minute and then it will blow out on both ends by itself. so hold it away from yourself and grasp the pipe by the middle of the neck. i was told this will get the freckles out"
Yeah it's true there's better ways but they aren't practical for Joe Bloggs to do.
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Hi there folks,
My chemistry knowledge is nonexistant, and my meth usage is frequent, so I have come here with the same urgency to find a way of purifying the 'meth' that I am consuming.
Firstly, I was under the impression that meth was not acetone soluble. Can anyone confrirm this?
Also I am now confused about the different melting points. From my own observation of using the pipe, I see the first few turns as blowing off the first cutter/solvent - this one often tastes like acetone - and is highly recommmended not to inhale this part.
As the bowl progresses, this taste disappears and we have (hopefully) the familiar taste and mouthfeel of 'meth', the melted bubble tends to get thicker and oily, recrystallises with those wonderful patterns (Mt.Fuji....spokewheels...???)
Sometimes I've scored pretty average gear that tastes and smokes badly (wet puddle with no form or surface tension, sets to a solid mess rather than recrystallises)...but after about half way through the burn, the good characteristics return to the smoke, the puddle and the recrystallised blob. I have assumed that it was cutters and impurities that are vaped off over the first half of the burn, and 'meth' that is left over towards the end. If this was the case it would be the meth that has a higher boiling point, which allows the other stuff to burn away first.
...or perhaps I am encountering other unknown chemicals in that first half of the burn, while the 'meth' bubble at the end is just a combination of meth and standard cutters.
Any informed input would be greatly appreciated here. :D
I've given up vaping, so I have fewer clues to work with these days about the product and I'm not going to be tempting myself by vaporizing the stuff a foot away from my mouth... long story short, I haven't found a way yet to separate this one particular cut. Meth is not acetone soluble, nor is the cut.
My "leech equal parts" statement is because they're both water soluble, and even "pure" acetone from the hardware store has H20 impurities. You can leech some of the H20 out by pretreating with... oh, what is it... magnesium? I don't remember, but they're epsom salts -- whatever that stuff really is. You heat them at about 400 or 450 in the oven for like an hour or two, and it'll become brittle and chalky sort of. Then you let some soak in acetone, separate the acetone very carefully after awhile, and you get slightly purer acetone good for doing acetone washes.
The problem is that there's still H20 in there, and it's still going to leech off some of your meth. It'll leech off some of the cut too, but I don't know if it's more or less soluble in water... so I approximated with "leech equal parts." Does that answer your question?
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According to the DEA meth melts some twenty degrees C below Isopropylbenzylamine... 170C vs. 190C.
Besides taking advantage of that you could do some chemistry, but being structural isomers it is not going to be something you can probably do on your own without a working knowledge of organic chemistry.
If you want to do some reading I would suggest googling the separation of amine structural isomers. The key to the reaction should be the difference in distance and dipole caused by the difference in location of the amine in these two compounds.
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According to the DEA meth melts some twenty degrees C below Isopropylbenzylamine... 170C vs. 190C.
Besides taking advantage of that you could do some chemistry, but being structural isomers it is not going to be something you can probably do on your own without a working knowledge of organic chemistry.
If you want to do some reading I would suggest googling the separation of amine structural isomers. The key to the reaction should be the difference in distance and dipole caused by the difference in location of the amine in these two compounds.
Interesting. Thank you very much, sir: you seem to have given me enough of a clue to hunt down the information myself, and that's good enough for me. Cheers :)
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No problem. Perhaps if I find some time I can help you more, Hofmann might be able to help you in the mean time...
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Hi there folks,
My chemistry knowledge is nonexistant, and my meth usage is frequent, so I have come here with the same urgency to find a way of purifying the 'meth' that I am consuming.
Firstly, I was under the impression that meth was not acetone soluble. Can anyone confrirm this?
Also I am now confused about the different melting points. From my own observation of using the pipe, I see the first few turns as blowing off the first cutter/solvent - this one often tastes like acetone - and is highly recommmended not to inhale this part.
As the bowl progresses, this taste disappears and we have (hopefully) the familiar taste and mouthfeel of 'meth', the melted bubble tends to get thicker and oily, recrystallises with those wonderful patterns (Mt.Fuji....spokewheels...???)
Sometimes I've scored pretty average gear that tastes and smokes badly (wet puddle with no form or surface tension, sets to a solid mess rather than recrystallises)...but after about half way through the burn, the good characteristics return to the smoke, the puddle and the recrystallised blob. I have assumed that it was cutters and impurities that are vaped off over the first half of the burn, and 'meth' that is left over towards the end. If this was the case it would be the meth that has a higher boiling point, which allows the other stuff to burn away first.
...or perhaps I am encountering other unknown chemicals in that first half of the burn, while the 'meth' bubble at the end is just a combination of meth and standard cutters.
Any informed input would be greatly appreciated here. :D
I've given up vaping, so I have fewer clues to work with these days about the product and I'm not going to be tempting myself by vaporizing the stuff a foot away from my mouth... long story short, I haven't found a way yet to separate this one particular cut. Meth is not acetone soluble, nor is the cut.
My "leech equal parts" statement is because they're both water soluble, and even "pure" acetone from the hardware store has H20 impurities. You can leech some of the H20 out by pretreating with... oh, what is it... magnesium? I don't remember, but they're epsom salts -- whatever that stuff really is. You heat them at about 400 or 450 in the oven for like an hour or two, and it'll become brittle and chalky sort of. Then you let some soak in acetone, separate the acetone very carefully after awhile, and you get slightly purer acetone good for doing acetone washes.
The problem is that there's still H20 in there, and it's still going to leech off some of your meth. It'll leech off some of the cut too, but I don't know if it's more or less soluble in water... so I approximated with "leech equal parts." Does that answer your question?
Thanks, got it now. I reckon if this 'dry acetone wash' can be fine tuned, there may small enough levels of H2o left behind, making the amount of meth leeched off reduced to a tolerable level. I would be happy to sacrifice a bit of the real stuff as a tradeoff for removing a high level of cutters/impurities. Might have to hit the kitchen for some trial and error - I have some average gear leftover from an unfortunate transaction that I could donate to science.
...and as for the professional cooks out there, I don't understand why they don't produce a high purity product and charge extra to make up for the reduced quantities achieved. I for one would fully support a vendor who supplied close-to-pure meth and charged double or even triple for their troubles. Perhaps it's just too hard these days to find the precursors ???
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Try to get your hands on some dl-methamphetamine, afaik you are aussie, about 10 years ago most of the meth you got from dealers was dl- due to being made via reduction of pseudoephedrine with red p and iodine. Since the replacement of pseudo in flu tablets back in 2006ish, you only get racemic meth these days. It could be that the 50% cut that you are noticing is merely l-methamphetamine.
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Try to get your hands on some dl-methamphetamine, afaik you are aussie, about 10 years ago most of the meth you got from dealers was dl- due to being made via reduction of pseudoephedrine with red p and iodine. Since the replacement of pseudo in flu tablets back in 2006ish, you only get racemic meth these days. It could be that the 50% cut that you are noticing is merely l-methamphetamine.
I have yet to encounter meth from the US that tastes or feels like meth from days long gone. Is this a global issue with mostly l-methamphetamine being available?
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That's a good point, Fractal, except I think you've got your cooks mixed up (either that or I do) -- reduction of pseudoephedrine via hydroiodic acid (which is created "in situ" by red phosphorous + i2 + h2o + heat) produces d-methamphetamine, not a racemic product. Since the pseudoephedrine is all dextro-, you end up with dextro- meth. If the p-fed is actually racemic (or was back in the day or something), then I assume it would be as you say.
At any rate, the cut doesn't recrystallize the same way meth does. Infact I actually saw it stay liquid/gooey for literally 1-3 minutes once, so it can't just be levo- meth. Clever thought though :)
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Nope, you are absolutely right SS. I was the one who made a mixup, although I think it was more musclememory of typing dl constantly rather than d- or l- ;)
strelitzia: Its not so much l-meth being more available, but more that large scale production is much more cost efficient when producing racemic meth rather than d-meth. So almost all the meth you get these days is "cut" with at least 50% l-methamphetamine, which is a peripheral stim rather than a CNS stim. Pure d-methamphetamine should have very little body load and quite a bit more kick in the neurological department. Unfortunately, its just slightly more expensive to make(not necessarily true if the red p is reclaimed after successful reduction, however most cooks cbf doing this)
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the l-meth shouldn't give you a headache though - not impossible but, as a side effect goes, that's a rare one.
Im assuming that the stuff you're getting is the cosmetic "glass" stuff since it's what seems to be the trend- so chances are that absolute or denatured alcohol wont wash whatever garbage was added out of it. Denatured Alcohol is what I would use next if acetone wasnt doing the job-it works the opposite way than the acetone- meth dissolves in it and i insoluble impurities get filtered behind. Might be worth a try but I have some doubts itll work against that cut agent.
Can try MEK- might work. Ether - if you can obtain it- I couldnt find much info on Isopropylbenzylamine other than it's water soluable and a possible skin irritant
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l-meth = increased heart rate = dehydration = headache.