Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Snoopish on November 17, 2012, 04:37 pm
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Hey all, been a while! About two months ago I mentioned doing some experimenting with some nootropics with the idea I'd get a better idea for how they work, what they do, and if they're worth it.
Well, After 45 days of dosing with Piracetam I can tell you that I felt very little in the way of effects. There may have been the most subtle of effects at this level but none that I could quantify from prior to my 45 days on it. Here was my lineup:
1.6g Piracetam
350mg Choline
Along with the occasional multivitamins/other supplements.
I realize such a dosage was low but I was getting my feet wet. Yesterday I just started with Oxiracetam and Aniracetam(~800mg of each) and I definitely felt some initial effects after just one day. I don't think I'll dose daily on these more powerful acetams but likely at least several times a week.
I'll try to give some initial reports on my usage with these two by next week.
Additionally, I also will be trying Pramiracetam and one or two others sometime in the near future and reporting my findings.
I've been a long time out but I hope there's still a few users interested in this sort of information!
Cheers,
Snoopish
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I'm one of those users whose interested in this information...
When I initially started taking Piracetam, I could literally feel my corpus callosum tingling...also I usually felt groggy and had a hard time waking up in the morning which changed after i started taking Piracetam....on Piracetam, i woke up in the morning feeling refreshed with a clear mind...no mental fog...no feeling like i needed my brain to warm up or come up to speed...
i agree that the effects are subtle...but when you throw a stimulant like ephedrine or Adderall into the mix you get a nice synergy...it feels like you have an answer or solution for every problem or question that crosses your path....
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I tried this a few *racetam regiments, I had varying results, but nothing substantial. However, a few close friends have reported otherwise, and some still maintain the regiment. There's some interesting information on the web about them and I think everyone should check it out.
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I'm glad to see a bit of interest is still out there regarding this. I will say that this past week I have been upping my doses significantly (relative to just my Piracetam use). Today I took 1g Oxiracetam, 200mg Pramiracetam, with Choline and Sulbutiamine and found the effects much more noticeable. I'm finding it rather hard to quantify the level of effectiveness between one dosage and another. I took just 1g of Oxiracetam yesterday and 1g of Anaracetam two days before that and am not sure if I could differentiate the feelings between these three occurrences. It probably doesn't help that I've been sick this week however.
I will start dosing two times: one in the morning and one around lunch starting next week and mess with different doses of everything and see if I can't formulate some more educated observations.
I will say that I have not experienced any headaches (which I understand would be indicative of low choline) that I'd attribute to my nootropic use. I have not taken more than 350mg of choline with any of my combinations so far.
If anybody else is working with these drugs I'd be interested in hearing other experiences. Cheers.
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For the past few weeks I've been taking 500mg alpha-GPC daily, as well as experimenting with 1600-4800 mg piracetam doses each morning, often depending on what my goals are for the day. I definitely notice the effects come on very quickly, as I take them on an empty stomach before breakfast. I also take a daily omega-3 supplement
I'm going to start standardizing my dose, taking 2400mg in the morning as well as 800mg piracetam in the evening, since I've read that many people split their full dose in two, taken 8 hours apart.
Some effects I've noticed so far with this regimen: increases sensitivity to cannabis and alcohol, makes thoughts flow more easily, faster typing, generally relaxed mood
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subscribe me plz simplemachines software! (is it just me, or does the whole notify thing not work like it's supposed to?)
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subscribe me plz simplemachines software! (is it just me, or does the whole notify thing not work like it's supposed to?)
Yup, not working.
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any progress on your regimen snoopish? I recently became interested in nootropics and your threads on the subject have been the best first hand accounts I have been able to find on the forums here.
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try aniracetam.. i've been taking about 750mg and eating around 2 egs..(~120ish mg choline?) and i can definitely feel results. I can remember things more clearly as well as stay focused on the main objective at hand, whether its reading, teaching, or answering questions.
sometimes its so subtle i dont realize, but its different in a good way.
Plus, i heard aniracetam is substantially more potent than piracetam.
but s moking weed after taking a pill or two, feels super "fly" dunno hw to explain it.. its more psychadelic-y?
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Thank you for starting this topic and providing your experience.
I too have recently discovered nootropics and after a couple of weeks of research I decided to purchase Noopept, Aniracetam and Choline. Additionally I boosted my intake of Vit Bs (mega complex and additional B3) + Magnesium as these vitamins and mineral assist in absorption/effect of the racetams. Noopept is the newest of the racetams however it has been said to be even stronger than Aniracetam albeit with some different benefits which is why I got both.. I tend to alternate them depending on my breakky - if higher in fat then i'll have aniracetam which needs it for absorption..
Anyway, it's only been a couple of weeks, however I can notice the difference in my general mental awareness and "being there" when I take these and when I have a few days off..
I'm no genius yet, however there have been a few times where I even surprised myself when for instance I am extra eloquent or verbose in corporate meetings, or even just writing an work-related email..
I firmly believe however, that our belief and how confident/positive we are that something will work effects the end result a lot more than most realise. This I believe applies to everything that we have any sort of influence over.. Getting sick for instance, or acing an exam, or if medication or these nootropics will help..
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Hey all, glad to see some more interest regard this. I've been rather busy but I continue to experiment with my regimen.
Right now I alternate between mornings consisting of
1100mg Oxiracetam + 600mg Sulbutiamine
1000mg Aniracetam + 600mg Sulbutiamine
300mg Pramiracetam + 600mg Sulbutiamine
I vary whether or not I take the Sulbutiamine and I have been meaning to add Noopept into my testing but it just hasn't panned out. I'll say that I, thus far, prefer Oxiracetam over Aniracetam. Additionally, I typically take magnesium, a B complex, and a standard multivitamin on top of this. Pramiracetam, for me, feels closer to Oxiracetam and so I think I prefer it over the Aniracetam also. As I said, I just haven't done them consistently enough to make a detailed difference between them.
It's still on the table for the near future though. I may start writing notes of what I take and my observations for that day so that I have better comparisons overall.
One additional note is that I also sometimes combine a bit of meth with these routines and I think I've had the most powerful compliment from a larger dose (2000mg Aniracetam) and about 20mg meth in terms of energy, focus, and even a social/confidence boost.
I'll try and get onto this as soon as I can and start relaying my experiences.
Cheers!
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Thanks for the update! you should definitely let us know how the Noopept goes if you end up trying it! I;ve been eyeing some of that for a while.
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it's pretty pricey this noopept.. especially when the gov won't allow it to be sold in my country.. sigh. 10g bottle I got from US cost about 60-70..
tastes worse than any illegal drug but worth it!
incidentally I also found that these nootrpics seem to have a positive effect on my Ice tolerence although I wouldn't use it just for that!
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I used piracetam and other racetams for months and they had little effect.
but now i definately get a kick out of having 5 or 6mg in capsules about 30 minutes before an LSD or MDMA trip... it seems to be a great potentiator of those two drugs.
one time especially (the only time) i used it with lsd i was used to taking 2 tabs of LSD of one vendors from a roll of ten i had... i had about 5 grams of piracetam about 30 minutes before dropping my usual 2 tabs of LSD and id never been so completely fucked off my face on LSD in my entire life.. so it was DEFINITELY due to the piracetam preload beforehand.
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I'll go ahead and say that Noopept just hasn't been doing much for me. I tried it two days in a row at 50-60mg. More or less no noticeable effects. Then I added 600mg Sulbutiamine on top of it. Still nothing like my other small stacks. I may try a larger dose tomorrow or couple it with another racetam but I'm just not seeing a proper effect from it (especially not for the price of it).
Cheers
Snoopish
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Interesting! thanks for the update snoopish!
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I use nootropics only the week before a roll. Preload. And a little while after, post.
They are mixed caps of :
Piracetam
DMMA
Sulbutiamine
Picamilon
Haven't noticed a huge difference alone, but things are a bit less foggy and more crisp for the mind. I like it. I buy bulk on clear-net and cap myself.
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just started to take Choline and Piracetam along with a basic multi and i do notice a small diff. thanks for the review.
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Piracetam has been recommended by another forum member and I would love to know more about it.
I googled it, checked the "clearnet" and I'm still very interested...
How are you all doing?
I mean: I would be willing to try this RC (because to my opinion it is an RC, but I'd love to hear what you think about it) in an attempt to improve/restore my memory.
The last 2 decennia have been quite hard on my "memory" and I'd love to have a boost for it...
Piracetam: is it a cure, or just something you need to take daily in order to feel any improvement?
I'm not looking for (another) product that has to be taken daily, I'm looking for a cure... if there is any?
Thank you for starting this disucssion... cheers
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I use piracetam. I've been taking it for several years to help dyslexia (it does). It is not a memory cure, and I have found it to be of little benefit to memory.
It does have a neuroprotective effect, which is why I use it for a preload. But it is also a nonspecific potentiator, so it needs some pre-thought with the pre-load.
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I never really had a positive effect of continuously using piracetam. At least no effect of the supplement directly. I would, however, take the chemical randomly (without choline) and use it as a sort of placebo to aid my study habits.
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I have also tried every other racetam, except nefri. Yet, I still come back to Piracetam.
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I had started taking piracetam, but I hadn't noticed anything major so I stopped. Albeit, that was about the time I was infatuated with adderall , so I was looking for something similar to that and may have over looked the piracetam effects.
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Thanks for the good info folks. I too am interested in both the potentiating properties of the racetams, and daily use to improve mental functioning and clarity. Looking forward to hearing more.
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subscribing
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Another note about Piracetam is its safety. It has no known lethal dose. If anyone knows of a drug with a longer-established safety record, please let me know. And it's affordable.
If anyone else suffers from dyslexia, I highly recommend trying Pir. It has been, I hesitate to say, a cure for me. I now read at a normal rate, which used to be painful and exhausting for me. I have an easier time waking in the morning ready to go mentally. Those have been reliable effects for me for several years. I took a month off from Pir once and found that my dyslexia returned after one week and stayed until I resumed Pir.
I take 3200 mg per day. I did not supplement with a choline source for the first year, even though it is the conventional wisdom. However, I had a lab test from spectracell that identified a choline deficiency, which I have been working to remedy with centrophenoxine (as various choline supplements did not seem to work for me). Centro does seem to work.
About four times a year I will rotate other racetams into the mix with Pir (always continuing Pir). Right now for example, I am adding 800 mg of Oxiracetam (spendy!). I agree with the other poster that it produces a noticeable effect. I am just not sure whether noticing is necessarily desirable. I do the same with the fat-soluble racetams (Ani and Prami).
I have noticed an emotional attenuation from time to time which concerns me. I am trying to sort out what combination is responsible, but it takes time and consistency to separate the variables.
I hope this helpful.
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I'm pleased to see some more interest in regards to this area! I will give just a brief update regarding my experiments: I am still underwhelmed by the effects of Noopept and will be giving it a break for the time being. I could notice, to some degree, Noopept's effects but it seemed to be much more distracting and scattering of my thoughts without facilitating focus. That said, from some other discussions that have arisen, perhaps I will attempt a longer but lower dosage schedule for Noopept.
Next I'm going to explore pramiracetam more thoroughly as I have been using it primarily in combination with others. I'll try to make some notes throughout the test phase and report back. I appreciate everyone's input and insights! Below are a few questions/comments I tried to address.
@Speedracer: glad to hear you are noticing some effects. Please keep us posted on your doses and thoughts!
@Stinkybreeze: Thanks for the list. I now have a couple more supplements that I'm unfamiliar to explore.
@RaFaeL5: I personally don't see piracetam as an RC. It has a decent use history and I know of no long-term detriments that can occur (if I'm mistaken I hope someone chimes in).
As to your second question, I do not believe piracetam will be a cure. Nor do I think there is one. This next part is some second-hand anecdotal information so take that for what you will: I know someone with some rather severe cognitive decline due to age who has begun exploring piracetam with some noticeable effects. I do not believe their regimen is daily but neither can you expect to take a gram and be "cured". That said, there seems to be some discussion that the effects of piracetam (and likely other racetams) that a regular [but not necessarily daily] program of racetam usage can lead to more noticeable effects when using racetams in the future.
I'm not sure if any of this is indicative that taking racetams would provide lasting benefits but I would definitely encourage the attempt. It's important to have appropriate expectations: taking a racetam will help with neurotransmitter communication but if one takes a racetam and then spends the time performing tasks that don't have a cognitive load (television, manual labor, etc.) then the effects of the racetam will be much less useful.
I would suggest trying a 5 day/week use regimen for a month of piracetam (perhaps choline although I'm not entirely convinced one needs to add choline unless using larger doses) starting at a lower dose and scaling up towards the end of the month. After that see if you've noticed any effects. If you have, the you can likely either reduce your dosaging schedule and/or explore additional racetams.
Cheers all
Snoopish
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I think Snoop's replies were excellent. I am currently cycling in a bottle of oxi (very costly), and am doing the five-day regimen that Snoop recommends. It helps me to take the weekend off oxi, although I do not skip Pir.
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What might a trial month cycle of one of these look like? And which one would you recommend for someone who hasn't tried any? I have struggled with mental "fog" if you will, lack of energy and motivation. Probably from taking MDMA too many times and not spaced out enough over the past few years.
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Subscribing. I've been reading up on different supplements to keep the ol' noggin chuggin'. I was originally looking for damage control, but cognition boosts have piqued my interest. I'll definitely be looking into these more. Thanks for all the great info!
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What might a trial month cycle of one of these look like? And which one would you recommend for someone who hasn't tried any? I have struggled with mental "fog" if you will, lack of energy and motivation. Probably from taking MDMA too many times and not spaced out enough over the past few years.
The most established by far is Piracetam. It's also one of the safest substances with no known lethal dose. That's a great way to start.
I don't want to make recommendations to you. But here's what I did.
This is one of those substances that benefits from an attack dose. So start with 4800 mg in the morning. The next day, take 800 3 times per day (say, breakfast lunch and dinner). It can be taken with or without food.
Look for something subtle, not dramatic. Listen to your thoughts, your interactions with others, with music, with nature, with light, with reading, with studies.
And let me know what happens. Stay in touch.
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subbing
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I am soooo happy to have seen this thread. Thanks for OP and all contributors.
After doing some light research I decided to try Piracetam (or Piracetamum as it says on my box of Geratam 1200 mg.).
I started out taking a pill a day (1200mg) in the morning with a citicoline 250mg (CDP Choline) capsule and after about a week I started getting nosebleeds. Very strange for me - I can't remember the last nosebleed I have had. Now I was also taking 200mg Provigil (Modafinil) occasionally so it might have been an interaction. At any rate I stopped the Piracetam and the nosebleeds stopped.
As far as effects I did feel a little more clear-thinking, but again the Provigil is a fucking fantastic drug which does the same thing so not a good test at all.
After a week I switched to a stack of NootroCetam, Aniracetam, and a few others offered by a clearnet place. They specified 3g twice a day which I took for two weeks and felt absolutely nothing.
I stopped taking that and after a couple of weeks I went back to the Piracetam. This time I broke the pill in half (it was scored) and took half in the morning and half at lunch. I also doubled up on the CDP Choline thinking that maybe not enough of that caused the nosebleeds (probably nonsensical). I took that dosage for a month. At the end I got a cold and near the ned of the cold my nose started to run unbelievably. I would lean over my laptop and a teaspoon on water would suddenly pour out of my nose right onto the keyboard before I even knew what was happening! This happened 6 or 7 times a day for three days and then the color got a little reddish instead of clear and I figured it was time to stop taking it again.
So weird. I just decided to give it a week off.
As far as effects during that month, I felt great. I required less sleep, was clear thinking. Never got tired at the end of the work day (as long as I had normal sleep). I didn't feel like a genius or anything, but I was focused and on task. It was clearly doing something although it wasn't like the movie Limitless but it was something - something light. Here is one effect I didn't expect but clearly felt - I could not get buzzed from alcohol. I would drink two or three double shots of tequila and barely notice it. This effect was so pronounced I have no doubt that it was happening. It was really annoying, but beneficial because I just stopped drinking a lot since it was useless. Good for my health I hate to admit.
After reading all of the other posts tonight I want to try going back to the pre-mixed stack and upping the dosage significantly. After that I will once again try the Piracetam again at double the dosage.
I think we should exchange notes on where to buy these on clearnet since they are available. My mix is called The Ultimate Mix and if you Google that with the word Nootropics you will find it.
Where do you find your RC's in bulk or in pills? I am in the USA but bought from an EU website.
Thanks,
Modzi
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I am very interested in this conversation, thanks guys.
FYI, I take Piracetam daily. I take about 800 mg daily along with a host of other supplements and vitamis. I can't say for 100% sure but I feel less distracted by other things lately. I don't have ADHD or ADD for that matter but I would notice that I would not necessarily stay on task always. I now have a higher resistance to being distracted or to get somewhere in a task and forget why I got there. Disclaimer though, I have added additional excercise into my regimen which probably helps as well. Based on these results I am sufficiently happy to continue my Piracetam intake.
blahblah1234
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A thread I need to keep up with for sure! Sad I missed it the first time!
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For those in the US:
Where in the hell can you find this stuff? Its not illegal, that I am aware of, yet I can't find it in any local vitamin shop, or on Amazon for that matter.
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For those in the US:
Where in the hell can you find this stuff? Its not illegal, that I am aware of, yet I can't find it in any local vitamin shop, or on Amazon for that matter.
Somebody bought mine for me as a gift, not sure where it came from but I looked on some clearnet forums and several people have had good results with new star nootropics.
clearnet!: http://www.newstarnootropics.com/
blahblah1234
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It is the conventional wisdom to take a choline supplement with Piracetam, but it is not at all proven. In fact, one study indicated that Piracetam and choline together did not work as well as Piracetam alone. I have taken Pir without choline for a year without any negative effects (headaches are often reported). If you do add a choline supplement, you might try separating it by several hours to avoid their interaction.
The Ultimate Mix combines them and GABA. It's difficult to find any supporting studies for this mix. But, if it works well for you...
Cheers
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It is the conventional wisdom to take a choline supplement with Piracetam, but it is not at all proven. In fact, one study indicated that Piracetam and choline together did not work as well as Piracetam alone. I have taken Pir without choline for a year without any negative effects (headaches are often reported). If you do add a choline supplement, you might try separating it by several hours to avoid their interaction.
The Ultimate Mix combines them and GABA. It's difficult to find any supporting studies for this mix. But, if it works well for you...
Cheers
Thanks for the info, Smogmonster13. Have yu read anything about nosebleeds as a common side effect of Pir?
What about *everyone* saying that Pir depletes choline?
Is there a reason you know of why Pir and Choline would interact poorly but that such interaction might be alleviated by spacing the tie between when the two are ingested?
Modzi
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Hi, Mod:
The is the first time I have heard about nosebleeds as a side effect of Pir. Piracetam appears to be a nonspecific potentiator of other agents, though. So, if someone were taking a blood thinner, for example, and the dose of the thinner was carefully titrated to prevent nosebleeds, then the addition of Pir could potentiate the effect and lead to nosebleed. (Only my thinking out loud, I have seen no research on this specific example). We could apply similar logic to other substances that may increase the likelihood of nosebleeds.
Even if Pir had evidence of increasing choline utilization in humans, that doesn't mean you must supplement choline. And there doesn't seem to be strong evidence, other than an enormous body of anecdotal citations, posts, and blogs. To which, I will add that I have taken it continuously for nearly four years without supplemental choline. At one point, I added Cetnrophenoxine. The combination had no discernible effects for me.
A couple of sources:
(PMID: 7301036) indicates that the combination attenuated the effects that either had separately. (although this is in rats). Almost all available data is in vitro and certainly not in humans. And this one: (PMID: 2987637) showing piracetam has no effect on high-affinity choline uptake in the hippocampus.
As to your second question, why might the attenuation effect be ameliorated by spacing the doses:
I'm simply going by the peak plasma rate of Pir, which is 1.5 hours with a clearing halflife of 5 hours (YMMV). If there is attenuation in the interaction, I'm speculating (sheer speculation) that the effect could roll off with serum Pir concentrations.
Thoughts? Thanks in advance. :)
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Thanks for the comments.
I am also taking a common statin for reducing cholesterol. Would that count as something that could interact with either CDP Choline or Piracetam to product the bloody nose or later the extremely runny note (flood) that turned a little bit pinkish after a couple of days?
What do you or anyone else think of these new Nootropic RC's (Wikipedia is friendly toward them):
Sunifiram
Coluracetam
Unifiram
Modzi
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Thanks for the comments.
I am also taking a common statin for reducing cholesterol. Would that count as something that could interact with either CDP Choline or Piracetam to product the bloody nose or later the extremely runny note (flood) that turned a little bit pinkish after a couple of days?
What do you or anyone else think of these new Nootropic RC's (Wikipedia is friendly toward them):
Sunifiram
Coluracetam
Unifiram
Interesting. The second most-reported side effect of statins is cognitive problems. I think you might be onto something there. Nose bleeds (and other mucous membrane bleeding) is a side effect of statins. It may be that the Pir potentiates the effect of your statins.
I do not know much about these new racetams. It is a class that has a madding number of variants. I do know that Pir. has the best proven safety record by far. Many people extrapolate from the safety of Pir to the safety of other racetams, but I don't think the logic holds up there.
Coluractem was specifically developed to do what Pir does not, enhance high-affinity choline uptake (HACU). I would speculate that Colu would require choline supplementation. ;)
I'll