Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: johnwholesome on October 27, 2012, 03:46 pm
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RANDOM RANT WARNING!
So, I happen to have an H junkie in my extended family, whom constantly refers to her drug as her "medicine", presumably because it takes the withdrawal pains away.
I dunno why, but it's really becoming a pet peeve of mine. ITS NOT FUCKING MEDICINE. Its the drug that you're addicted to and the CAUSE, not the REMEDY of your pain.
I have no issues with people consuming their drug of choice. But there are users, addicts, and then there are straight junkies. Where I am this "medicine" lingo is becoming more and more prevalent, and for some reason it rubs me really wrong.
You're addicted to a highly addictive drug, fucking face it, stop talking with this dumbed-down baby language for junkies to make you feel better about it. That might be the first step to solving your issues.
Yeeerch.
RANT OVER
Sorry, had to vent...
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I think some "Junkies" are lying as much to themselves, as they are to others, about the reality of their drug addiction. It's a perverse coping mechanism. So yes, I tend to agree with you.
Although, there are the chronic pain sufferers who do use illegally bought heroin as a medicine to manage their pain. They're fewer in number and less publicly recognized, but they're still part of the group of opiate addicts that fall on the wrong side of the law (known as Junkies to some).
I find when people describe they're use of cannabis as medicinal to be rather tenuous. I do believe some medicinal cannabis users do get a genuine positive effect from their cannabis use, weather it's from it's generally relaxing effects, or if it's psychosomatic, or if it's actually treating the specific illness or ailment in a medically valid and useful way. But, I also believe there is a larger number of cannabis users who wrongly label their cannabis use as medicinal, when it would be more accurately described as recreational. They may genuinely believe they are treating a medical issue, however I do suspect their love of cannabis has more to do with it. If an alternative and more effective treatment was made available to them, in the form of pills for example, which contained no THC or any other things derived from cannabis, I'd think they'd stick with their preferred cannabis treatment. Some maybe searching for a form of validation for cannabis use by using the medicinal label.
I just want to say again that I don't believe all medicinal cannabis users are like this, and even the one's who are may be doing it for all the right reasons. I have nothing against cannabis (although I no longer smoke it regularly) or the people who use it. It's a wonderful, powerful and very useful plant and the skill and passion that some growers have is to be admired. I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just offering my opinion on the subject. :)
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hard drugs r bad
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hard drugs r bad
Yea they can be but who is to say that a hard drug is hard? Caffeine tobacco and alcohol are all legal and accepted by main stream society as being the norm but yet they are your number one killers. Even sugar is not a very good substance to put into your body. Now I'll be one of the first to stand up and say "I love drugs" and I have no doctor or clinic. I enjoy a large variety of fucking recreational use drugs! ;D
When it comes time for me to vote on Marijuana being legal because of it's medicinal values then I will vote HELL YEA! When it comes time for me to vote for Marijuana being legal for recreational use I will vote HELL YEA!
Everything can be used with too much excess. There is such a thing as too much of a certain kind of food at one time. There's such a thing as too much talking. There's such a thing as too much sleep. There is such a thing as over dosing without ending up in the hospital or dead. I overdose every time i can on pain pills lol but I have quite the tolerance and I limit it to 5 of the ten mg or three 30's at one time and those dosages are over doses.
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Yea they can be but who is to say that a hard drug is hard?
People that judge it on a criteria of addictiveness and mental/physical harm to the self. Let's judge Heroin on that scale:
Addictive? Hell to the fuck yes
Mental Harm? Mentally depending on a substance, leaving yourself unable to solve your own mental dilemmas without it, usually for a while. Check! (Not to mention withdrawal effects)
Physical Harm? Physical Dependence to the point where you're in pain without the having the drug in your system for even a day or two... Yeah, that's your body saying fuck you.
So yeah, hard drugs r bad, mmkay?
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what the fuck is this Caparino, did you lose your password?
Anyway, heroin is no worse then Morphine or oxy 30's. Does Morphine fall under your definition for being a hard drug? Or is your definition of a hard drug only include street drugs? They use fucking heroin in all kinds of prescription drugs that are legal as hell with a script.
Fucking soda pops are fucking addictive and cause harm to the body as well. So is salt and tobacco and a whole host of shit. So in reality you consider heroin a hard drug because when you shoot it or snort it then you get high a fuck. Tobacco and alcohol is much more addictive and yea it could be because they are legal and easier to use on a daily basis considering legality and cost.
Now I would never give my consent to a statement that said it would be ok if everybody was shooting heroin, it isn't, but anything can be used overly excessive.
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Heroin is not the disease but the short term solution to the disease of addiction.....
If you look into the disease theory of addiction, and the solution (12 steps), you'll see what i mean.
Even the DSM classifies drug addiction as a mental illness.
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Nah man, I never said only street drugs. In fact as you stated heroin IS legal as a script. Soda pops aren't fucking addictive, sugar and caffeine are; they're just widely accepted by society. But seriously you're saying alcohol is more addictive than heroin? Fuck man, you gotta check your facts; the average time period to get addicted to alcohol is 9 months. Also, tobacco isn't really that addictive; it's the chemicals that they put in cigarettes that make them as such; plus I've found it's the anxiety ridding activity of fulfilling both oral and manual fixations that get you addicted to the activity of smoking cigarettes.
But going back to my original argument, there's no fucking way anything you've listed is nearly as addictive or self-harming as heroin.
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Heroin is not the disease but the short term solution to the disease of addiction.....
If you look into the disease theory of addiction, and the solution (12 steps), you'll see what i mean.
Even the DSM classifies drug addiction as a mental illness.
Is there any quality of personality that the DSM hasn't listed in a disorder? Fuck man, if I read all the disorders I find at least a couple symptoms akin to myself. I mean that COULD be because I'm completely batshit insane on the inside :P ...but I digress
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Heroin is not the disease but the short term solution to the disease of addiction.....
If you look into the disease theory of addiction, and the solution (12 steps), you'll see what i mean.
Even the DSM classifies drug addiction as a mental illness.
Yes I agree with you and would never rebel against anything that really helped people. However i do find it necessary to question some so called authorities. One example would be the media. I have found it obvious that the media only tells us what they want us to believe. So if a Doctor told me I had a mental illness because I use drugs then I would chose not to believe that because with me believing it will make it my reality. I'm sure you have heard stories about a doctor who has messed up a person by giving him the wrong meds or diagnosis. There is a time for all methods of healing so I would never negate going to the doctor.
But yes anyone who uses/abuses one particular drug on a daily basis and loses their family and home and everything they got, I would agree that the drug has caused them to have a mental break down. Even if they don't lose everything, like if they are richer then Trump or something, then yes they are having mental issues when using a particular drug in too much excess but also I would say that drug substitution may not be an answer either but it seems to help at the time when your wishing you had your drug of choice.
Now heroin is terribly addictive. I have seen people try to substitute for it and still be back on the hunt for it in just minutes.
Nah man, I never said only street drugs. In fact as you stated heroin IS legal as a script. Soda pops aren't fucking addictive, sugar and caffeine are; they're just widely accepted by society. But seriously you're saying alcohol is more addictive than heroin? Fuck man, you gotta check your facts; the average time period to get addicted to alcohol is 9 months. Also, tobacco isn't really that addictive; it's the chemicals that they put in cigarettes that make them as such; plus I've found it's the anxiety ridding activity of fulfilling both oral and manual fixations that get you addicted to the activity of smoking cigarettes.
But going back to my original argument, there's no fucking way anything you've listed is nearly as addictive or self-harming as heroin.
I would say that crack and meth are up there with it
But did you hear yourself? Soda pops are not addictive but sugar and caffeine are? LOL
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Heroin is not the disease but the short term solution to the disease of addiction.....
If you look into the disease theory of addiction, and the solution (12 steps), you'll see what i mean.
Even the DSM classifies drug addiction as a mental illness.
Is there any quality of personality that the DSM hasn't listed in a disorder? Fuck man, if I read all the disorders I find at least a couple symptoms akin to myself. I mean that COULD be because I'm completely batshit insane on the inside :P ...but I digress
True but the early additions never included it. A lot of research was done before such a taboo area could be classified as an illness. But yeah I get what you're saying!
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Heroin is not the disease but the short term solution to the disease of addiction.....
If you look into the disease theory of addiction, and the solution (12 steps), you'll see what i mean.
Even the DSM classifies drug addiction as a mental illness.
Is there any quality of personality that the DSM hasn't listed in a disorder? Fuck man, if I read all the disorders I find at least a couple symptoms akin to myself. I mean that COULD be because I'm completely batshit insane on the inside :P ...but I digress
True but the early additions never included it. A lot of research was done before such a taboo area could be classified as an illness. But yeah I get what you're saying!
I agree with what you're saying too! I'd have to say that if a person does knowingly succumb to drug use of a highly addictive substance, they'd have to have preexisting conditions in the first place.
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It's been very educational. Never had any H mailed to me. I might have to give it a go. I have never experienced physical withdrawals from anything I have ingested. I have had nightmares from quitting cigarettes but I guess that would be a mental withdrawal. During the month I have access to a few thirties and hydros and xanax. When they are gone then I'm out till next time. I don't try to space these out and make them stretch to last because i do it for recreational use. I simply won't ingest a substance unless I am going to get high so if I end up with ten hydro tens then I may make them last for two whole days lol.
To me it's no good to take one a day when I don't feel a fucking thing from it. And yes i know it's more dangerous to take 5 at a time but truthfully I like some of the harder drugs better. I never had MDMA until I found the road because it's not here and now I would prefer it over a lot of drugs even tho I have heard about it's dangers.
I really don't see the dangers of smoking weed except for the dangers of getting arrested for a non violent BS criminal offense. Oh and let's not forget that it's a gateway to other drugs. The truth is that people are going to live how they want and they are the fucking gateway because they are the ones who chose to do it. Yea marijuana will cause you to have a more open mind.
I'd like to see the evidence stating that marijuana causes cancer or brain damage or psychosis because I have read tons about it and any claims have been proven to be false
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Heroin is not the disease but the short term solution to the disease of addiction.....
If you look into the disease theory of addiction, and the solution (12 steps), you'll see what i mean.
Even the DSM classifies drug addiction as a mental illness.
Yes I agree with you and would never rebel against anything that really helped people. However i do find it necessary to question some so called authorities. One example would be the media. I have found it obvious that the media only tells us what they want us to believe. So if a Doctor told me I had a mental illness because I use drugs then I would chose not to believe that because with me believing it will make it my reality. I'm sure you have heard stories about a doctor who has messed up a person by giving him the wrong meds or diagnosis. There is a time for all methods of healing so I would never negate going to the doctor.
But yes anyone who uses/abuses one particular drug on a daily basis and loses their family and home and everything they got, I would agree that the drug has caused them to have a mental break down. Even if they don't lose everything, like if they are richer then Trump or something, then yes they are having mental issues when using a particular drug in too much excess but also I would say that drug substitution may not be an answer either but it seems to help at the time when your wishing you had your drug of choice.
Now heroin is terribly addictive. I have seen people try to substitute for it and still be back on the hunt for it in just minutes.
Nah man, I never said only street drugs. In fact as you stated heroin IS legal as a script. Soda pops aren't fucking addictive, sugar and caffeine are; they're just widely accepted by society. But seriously you're saying alcohol is more addictive than heroin? Fuck man, you gotta check your facts; the average time period to get addicted to alcohol is 9 months. Also, tobacco isn't really that addictive; it's the chemicals that they put in cigarettes that make them as such; plus I've found it's the anxiety ridding activity of fulfilling both oral and manual fixations that get you addicted to the activity of smoking cigarettes.
But going back to my original argument, there's no fucking way anything you've listed is nearly as addictive or self-harming as heroin.
I would say that crack and meth are up there with it
But did you hear yourself? Soda pops are not addictive but sugar and caffeine are? LOL
Your point about Doctors..... The problem with doctors is they know very little about a lot, and unless they are specialists in a particular area (such as addiction) they're advice is worth jack shit. That's why any good doctor should refer you to a specialist 'drug agency' or someone in a specialist role before quickly reading a page of a book and making a diagnosis.
I was a full on street Heroin addict for 15 years, luckily I found a solution....and was completely clean for 9 years, until I came across SR!! yeah I don't use H anymore (have once in 6 months) but I now have a benzo problem. But luckily in the time I was clean I achieved a lot and I am happy with what I have (would have only dreamt about it 10 years ago).
I truly believe I have the 'disease' of addiction - everything I do, I do to the extreme.
When I work on my disease by working a 12 step program I'm fine, the minute I let my guard down I seem to use.... absolutely powerless over drugs, without a solution. It runs in the family too, so it's possibly in my genes.
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So are you saying it's a bad thing? Well we are living life and doing things we enjoy. I don't think you are hurting anyone in the process. Not even yourself.
Doctors don't know enough about the human brain and all it's abilities and I am not saying That I do but i know what i have experienced and how i feel. I do know that whatever the mind conceives and believes then it will achieve
If you chose to believe something whole heartedly with lots of emotion then that will in fact become your reality. If you think your sick then you will be sick
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Heroin is not the disease but the short term solution to the disease of addiction.....
If you look into the disease theory of addiction, and the solution (12 steps), you'll see what i mean.
Even the DSM classifies drug addiction as a mental illness.
1. Admit that you are not a good enough Christian (or even a Christian at all!!)
2. Desire to be a better Christian
3. Say as many Christian group prayers as possible
4. Turn your life over to the Christian God and Jesus, you obviously suck at living it yourself as you use the Devils substances
5. Worship Jebus!
6. Hallelujah
7. Amen!!
8. Get your slip signed for the Christian parole officer / judge / probation officer
9. Give your slip to the Christian parole officer / judge / probation officer
10. Talk about how you totally love God and Jesus and like totally hit rock bottom smoking that devil Negro weed man
11. Finish up requirements to get off probation / parole or out of rehab or whatever
12. Smoke a bowl and try not to get busted by the Christian police again
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Heroin is not the disease but the short term solution to the disease of addiction.....
If you look into the disease theory of addiction, and the solution (12 steps), you'll see what i mean.
Even the DSM classifies drug addiction as a mental illness.
1. Admit that you are not a good enough Christian (or even a Christian at all!!)
2. Desire to be a better Christian
3. Say as many Christian group prayers as possible
4. Turn your life over to the Christian God and Jesus, you obviously suck at living it yourself as you use the Devils substances
5. Worship Jebus!
6. Hallelujah
7. Amen!!
8. Get your slip signed for the Christian parole officer / judge / probation officer
9. Give your slip to the Christian parole officer / judge / probation officer
10. Talk about how you totally love God and Jesus and like totally hit rock bottom smoking that devil Negro weed man
11. Finish up requirements to get off probation / parole or out of rehab or whatever
12. Smoke a bowl and try not to get busted by the Christian police again
LMAO. That was funny.
In all fairness though they do say you can pick whatever "Higher Power" you want, but most 12 steppers do end up becoming Christian. They are not supposed to talk about religion in those meetings but a lot of dumb asses really ruin it by getting all obsessed with saving everyone and talking about Jesus and scaring new people off.
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Heroin is not the disease but the short term solution to the disease of addiction.....
If you look into the disease theory of addiction, and the solution (12 steps), you'll see what i mean.
Even the DSM classifies drug addiction as a mental illness.
1. Admit that you are not a good enough Christian (or even a Christian at all!!)
2. Desire to be a better Christian
3. Say as many Christian group prayers as possible
4. Turn your life over to the Christian God and Jesus, you obviously suck at living it yourself as you use the Devils substances
5. Worship Jebus!
6. Hallelujah
7. Amen!!
8. Get your slip signed for the Christian parole officer / judge / probation officer
9. Give your slip to the Christian parole officer / judge / probation officer
10. Talk about how you totally love God and Jesus and like totally hit rock bottom smoking that devil Negro weed man
11. Finish up requirements to get off probation / parole or out of rehab or whatever
12. Smoke a bowl and try not to get busted by the Christian police again
LMAO. That was funny.
In all fairness though they do say you can pick whatever "Higher Power" you want, but most 12 steppers do end up becoming Christian. They are not supposed to talk about religion in those meetings but a lot of dumb asses really ruin it by getting all obsessed with saving everyone and talking about Jesus and scaring new people off.
Not in the UK - It's a spiritual program and religion is very very rarely mentioned. Higher Power is the key, whether you believe in god or not is irrelevant. I don't believe in god, but I know if you work the 12 steps properly you'll fill that spiritual void without having to use drugs.
God doesn't come into it for me - my higher power is personal to me, and about as far away from religion as possible.
The myth the 12 steps is a religious program needs to be squashed, too many people that need the help don't even try meetings because the assume it's religious. In the UK it certainly isn't a religious program.
The only reason the word god is mentioned in the steps was because it was written in the 30's by two religious alcoholics in the USA called Bill and Bob - it's proven to work so the wording has never been changed, and never will be. Although over the years the principle of the program hasn't changed - the religious element has.
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They are not supposed to talk about religion in those meetings but a lot of dumb asses really ruin it by getting all obsessed with saving everyone and talking about Jesus and scaring new people off.
Not supposed to talk about religion in the meeting? Just save it until the end when they say
"God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference."
Of course this is not the Christian God but merely God as you understand Him so that makes it okay. Because there is one God. And it is a male God. But it is The one male God as you understand capital h im. Not the Christian God.
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Only in good old USA can being caught with marijuana get you sentenced to turning your life over to the (totally not Christian only!!) one single male God and chanting prayers for His Glory. Turning your life over to the (I swear not Christian!) single male God and singing his praises is totally the cure to marijuana addiction (which is defined as having used marijuana), that shit is like scientifically proven man.
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its not called 12 step program in uk is it .only ones ive been to is compass and lifeline and i hate them all prob because i just need meth to stop me rattling and dont want to stop using a few times a week and it meant putting up with there pointless shit from 20 year old birds straight out of uni and easily moulded by the bosses to believe the shit they talk and going to chemist daily much better just buying meth and easier to get off it as u control the meth
theres no point drinking meth on days when u score but they make u go daily .after the gov changed and said no maintanence scripts u have to go up or down so people using everyday will have there meth upped even though they dont even need what there on but u carnt say u dont want it coz some days u dont have coin
theres pretty much 0 chance of jesus being mentioned thats for sure , u can only stop using when u 100% want to not coz of the shit they say and if u do want to stop the pointless shit they talk still means nothing and 90% just want meth to stop rattling but everyone is expected to play the game saying there clean and trying there hardest blah blah
used to all be ex junkies working there now u dont see many if any probably coz they have there own ideas and its easier for the bosses to mould 20 year old uni girls whove never even seen weed before
the ones i went to was sit in waiting room with people drinking special brew/cider on sly and others selling vallies and talking about whos got best tackle ,get called she asks hows it going ,u say not to bad i used maybe once but its hard im trying ,u get script and go score
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But did you hear yourself? Soda pops are not addictive but sugar and caffeine are? LOL
Yeah... I did. Because those are the key addictive ingredients LOL Not to mention diet soda which has aspartame in it, an ever worse and more addictive substitute for sugar LOL
Sugar and caffeine can also be found in coffee, tea, chocolate, and etc LOL
Name specifics and include concise and consistent thoughts if you ever wish to make compelling argument LOL
Also don't try heroin you idiot, in fact stop drugs altogether; you've already lost custody of your own son because of your life choices LOL
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its not called 12 step program in uk is it .only ones ive been to is compass and lifeline
??
We're talking about NA, AA, CA etc. (all based on the 12 steps)
I think you're on about day programs - like daily drop in centre's, DIP teams, etc etc.
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seriously totally not the christian God. The 12 step prayer may be BASED on a prayer to Jesus but they totally modified it and now it is religion neutral (it can be any God after all ... well provided it is a single male God).
God, give us grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
courage to change the things
which should be changed,
and the wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.
Living one day at a time,
Enjoying one moment at a time,
Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace,
Taking, as Jesus did,
This sinful world as it is,
Not as I would have it,
Trusting that You will make all things right,
If I surrender to Your will,
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life,
And supremely happy with You forever in the next.
Amen.
of course we also have the good old Lords prayer, another primary feature of 12 step meetings!
"Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil."
Some straight up scientifically proven anti addiction medicine right there. There is NO OTHER CURE to addiction (ie: having used drugs ever). Nothing works at all except turning your life over to JEBUS HALLELUJAH AMEN LAWDY LAWDY. Of course there ARE competing ideas to cures for addiction, I have heard from reliable sources that turning your life over to THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY and paying them to audit away all of the frozen volcano alien souls implanted in you by LORD XENU (the one male alien supreme lord of the universe) to cause your addictive ways can also work, but I am not sure how many steps NARCONON has.
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but I am not sure how many steps NARCONON has.
Thousands 8)
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wow carnt imagine having to put up with that id last about 5 seconds ,the women i see maybe arnt that bad after all
are these jesus centres what u have to go to if arrested to avoid jail ,in uk if 1st time drug personal offence u get sent to compass/lifeline were i live for 1 meeting and thats it
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wow carnt imagine having to put up with that id last about 5 seconds ,the women i see maybe arnt that bad after all
are these jesus centres what u have to go to if arrested to avoid jail ,in uk if 1st time drug personal offence u get sent to compass/lifeline were i live for 1 meeting and thats it
I've been to approx 2000 NA or AA meetings over the years and heard the word Jesus maybe twice! Not sure about the USA but in the UK - it's all about one addict trying to help another addict stay clean. And trust me I've seen hundreds of down and out junkie's turn their lives around through NA and AA.
You don't get any 'professionals' at meetings, the only people that go are addicts.
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right ive never been to that type ,ones i been to is just u and a drug worker and u go every 2 weeks to get a script and a 10 min chat
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wow carnt imagine having to put up with that id last about 5 seconds ,the women i see maybe arnt that bad after all
are these jesus centres what u have to go to if arrested to avoid jail ,in uk if 1st time drug personal offence u get sent to compass/lifeline were i live for 1 meeting and thats it
I've been to approx 2000 NA or AA meetings over the years and heard the word Jesus maybe twice! Not sure about the USA but in the UK - it's all about one addict trying to help another addict stay clean. And trust me I've seen hundreds of down and out junkie's turn their lives around through NA and AA.
You don't get any 'professionals' at meetings, the only people that go are addicts.
In the USA it is about 95% people who don't want to be there but have to be there poorly pretending to give a flying fuck so they can get their sheets signed off for the state, 4% religious fanatics who found Jesus and quit drugs (these people tend to run the meetings), and 1% people who are actually addicts and get help from AA/NA without being addicted to Jesus.
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right ive never been to that type ,ones i been to is just u and a drug worker and u go every 2 weeks to get a script and a 10 min chat
Sounds like your local DIP team (drug intervention program) or something similar - a complete waste of time, as I'm sure you'll agree.
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wow carnt imagine having to put up with that id last about 5 seconds ,the women i see maybe arnt that bad after all
are these jesus centres what u have to go to if arrested to avoid jail ,in uk if 1st time drug personal offence u get sent to compass/lifeline were i live for 1 meeting and thats it
I've been to approx 2000 NA or AA meetings over the years and heard the word Jesus maybe twice! Not sure about the USA but in the UK - it's all about one addict trying to help another addict stay clean. And trust me I've seen hundreds of down and out junkie's turn their lives around through NA and AA.
You don't get any 'professionals' at meetings, the only people that go are addicts.
In the USA it is about 95% people who don't want to be there but have to be there poorly pretending to give a flying fuck so they can get their sheets signed off for the state, 4% religious fanatics who found Jesus and quit drugs (these people tend to run the meetings), and 1% people who are actually addicts and get help from AA/NA without being addicted to Jesus.
Holy shit thats fucked up. In the UK no-one can force you to go to NA or AA, no courts or anything. It is purely voluntary, therefore the people that go genuinely want to be clean.
Sounds fucked up in the states if that's the case.
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Being forced to go to AA or NA is pretty standard here if you get in trouble for anything even remotely related to drugs or alcohol.
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They are really sneaky fucks too. In some places in USA courts have ruled that you cannot be sentenced to NA or AA as they are christian religious organizations. But then they will try shit like oh well you are not sentenced to go to NA or AA but as terms of your probation you must go to AA or NA so if you go to AA or NA meetings you can serve your sentence outside of prison on probation but otherwise you serve it in prison, but no of course you are not SENTENCED to AA or NA. They have a million and one tricks.
http://legallad.quickanddirtytips.com/does-mandatory-alcoholics-anonymous-violate-constitution.aspx
talks a bit about how God Damn unconstitutional forced NA is (despite the fact that it is commonplace).
here is another site that is for the people sentenced by the courts to become members of these christian religious cults
http://leavingaa.com/?page_id=14
but really AA and NA are not even the worst that you can be sentenced to. Some of the in patient rehabilitation facilities you can get sentenced to are pretty much combinations of fascist re-education centers and Jesus Camp. Authority is there to be obeyed not questioned! You are addicted to drugs for the rest of your life (ie: you have used drugs ever in your life) and your only cure it to turn your life over to Jesus Christ and continually put your faith in him! I shit you not. This is where the court will send you if you are lucky enough to avoid getting sentenced to prison and ass rape but unlucky enough to be sentenced to something worse than probation and AA/NA christian indoctrination.
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I never understood that 'higher power' business, even if they say it doesn't have to be a Christian deity why would you surrender yourself to anything like that? Surely it couldn't hurt to take responsibility for the things you do or don't put into your own body.
Most people in the UK start off with their higher power being the meetings (group of recovering addicts, helping each other stay clean), but as you work through the steps with your sponsor, ideas start to change. Higher power could literally be anything, a common one in my old home meeting would be for example a higher power being a deceased loved one....
Some people that aren't 'religious' tend to believe that some kind of god is out there and choose that.
Higher power it's such an individual concept that can be interpreted and exercised in many, many ways.
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I think I'M gonna go to one of those meetings just for shits and giggles and proclaim that "I" am my higher power, then I will replace the spoken word God with "I" whenever it comes up, just to see how they react.
(Juunkies still shouldn't call H. their "medicine" :P )
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THE TWELVE STEPS OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become
unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to
sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we
understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature
of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make
amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do
so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly
admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with
God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us
and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to
carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our
affairs.
Copyright A.A. World Services, Inc.
I never understood that 'higher power' business, even if they say it doesn't have to be a Christian deity why would you surrender yourself to anything like that? Surely it couldn't hurt to take responsibility for the things you do or don't put into your own body.
Firstly, I personally know people who have turned their lives around using a 12-step program. But, I have never felt comfortable with the first step. I believe it's wrong to "admit we are powerless over our addiction", because (like Moksha pointed out) we should take personal responsibility for our behaviour and by empowering ourselves we can achieve anything we put our minds to. To take away your belief that you can change your own reality can only be negative. Especially when coupled with the idea that only a higher power can help you.
There are self-empowering addiction recovery support groups out there. Here is one such site (although I'm not advocating them myself, because I've no firsthand experience of their services); http://www.smartrecovery.org/
To follow on from Kmf's point, here is a case-by-case overview of people fighting their court mandated attendance of 12 step programs based on a first amendment defense;
http://www.smartrecovery.org/courts/court-mandated-attendance.htm
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Seriously the worst part about USA is that they pretend to be something they are not. They should change the name to the United States of Jesus land and implement a judicial system that quotes the scripture because essentially that is what the country is. Know the real reason why you can't smoke weed or take LSD? Because it will piss the all mighty sky wizard off! They should change the official title of the vice police to the religious police and be done with it. I guess we should be grateful that we can dance in the street and not be beheaded.
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i highly recommend the book 'Globalization of Addiction' by Bruce Alexander. gives some great evidence that addiction is not caused by chemicals, but is a 'coping method' by people who are socially dislocated (i.e. people with 'empty lives' so to speak).
check out this video which explains the 'Rat Park' experiments into addiction http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/blog/cartoon-blog/australian-cartoonist-box/
( By a cartoonist who is working with Alexander to do a follow-up to this beauty of a comic: 'War on Drugs' http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/war-on-drugs/ )
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But seriously you're saying alcohol is more addictive than heroin?
Yep.
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But seriously you're saying alcohol is more addictive than heroin?
Yep.
When is a substance addictive? When someone's "dependent" on it.
When is someone "dependent" on a substance? When they find themselves unable to control their use of it despite real, serious attempts to do so.
Some individual's control their use of substances just fine and aren't addicted to anything.
An individual can also be addicted to one substance and have no difficulty whatsoever controlling their use of another one.
Addiction is defined in terms of an individual's difficulty or outright inability to deliberately control their use of it. There is no "most addictive drug," or "this is more addictive than that." They're not addictive except when considered in the context of someone's usage of them. And that changes radically from person to person.
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Living with a junkie must be tough. They are the most selfish people on earth. I cant bring myself to be angry with them though. Like self harmers they have found a way of coping with life....albeit a self destructive solution.
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i have a "Sponsor" from an NA binge i had to go through for courts.
he contacted me for Thanksgiving last year.. it was a surprise, but really nice.
those people really will care for and help you through any and everything.
it is scary and surreal.
kind of cool, but they are all just cross-addicted to caffeine and nicotine.. sooo. :)
might as well go to a Methadone clinic or get on Suboxone or Subutex.
/thumbs
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You are never forced to go to meetings in the u.s.. You agree to go to those meetings to avoid the full punishment of your crime. You can always just serve your time and never step into a meeting.
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i think you are missing the element of black humor behind people calling their opiates "medicine". i say from my own experiences being a junkie, and many times i would jokingly refer to my dope as my "medicine", cause it would stop me from being sick. of course the sickness i'm talking about is dopesickness, and it's not actually medicine. and i don't know about your specific case OP, just my two cents
honestly nothing makes me madder than hearing stoners talking about getting their "medicine" and being "medicated" and people in dispensaries talking about how great their "medicine" is and all that. i have nothing against marijuana, i just hate the bullshit hypocrisy of the "medical use" provision in America. not to say there aren't legitimate medical for THC, it just irritates me to see perfectly healthy 25 year old guys talking about much better their life is since they got their "medical" use green card. there's nothing wrong with getting high, but i hate people that are full of shit!
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Ya know... in the defense of addicts, it can be awfully difficult to accept that you're an addict and that you just plain don't want to stop using. We're not the best parts of ourselves, we're the sum of all of our parts -- addictions included. It's the same kind of thing as being homosexual or any other personality trait that you get ostracized for.
Let me qualify that: I'm not saying homosexuality and drug addiction are both equally genetic, though I think a good argument could be made for that (I'm not going to be the one making it though). Just that sizable portions of (US at least) society consider one or the other to be scum, criminals, or even genuinely evil. Sometimes it's hard to face who you really are, let alone learn to accept yourself when others don't.
Let 'em call it their medicine until they can look in the mirror and not lie about who they see. Same thing as saying a loved one "passed" (I really hate that one for some reason) instead of accurately saying that they're fuckin' dead and rotting like we all will be one day. Please don't point out God. That doesn't change what's going to happen to our bodies.
Just ignore their euphemisms; in the end it's their problem, not yours. If they're making it yours, then walk away. If they die without ever really looking in the mirror... well... then they'll die a self deluded fool. Either way, you can't force somebody to see what they're unwilling to see. And even though it pisses me off too, their life belongs to them. I mean who are we to fuck with the rose-tinted glasses they decided they need?
By the way, I think some of us are misunderstanding the benefit of "handing your life over to a higher power." It allows them to shed some of the guilt and self-loathing that comes with being something other people despise you for. Optimism and positivity are always more beneficial to your success than vicious self criticism. Let me stress that: ALWAYS. If you think you'll fail, then you're going to fail. If you think you're scum, you're going to either stay or become scum. Belief and expectation are amazingly powerful things.
If you give yourself over to "something higher," it allows you to forgive yourself. To bypass the expectations you have for your own actions. To see the possibility for something better tomorrow than you went through yesterday. Every addict has tried to stop and failed. They have evidence that they can't do it. So it's kind of necessary to let somebody else "decide for you." If you ask me, that's the reason it seems to help a lot of people.
... on a personal note, I think it's complete bullshit and AA/rehab make me want to gouge my eyes out. I don't really mind being an atheistic junkie though, and if it helps some people, then I'm happy they're happier :)
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i think you are missing the element of black humor behind people calling their opiates "medicine".
I knew a guy once who would refer to heroin as Ready Brek for adults, that's some black humour.
honestly nothing makes me madder than hearing stoners talking about getting their "medicine" and being "medicated" and people in dispensaries talking about how great their "medicine" is and all that. i have nothing against marijuana, i just hate the bullshit hypocrisy of the "medical use" provision in America. not to say there aren't legitimate medical for THC, it just irritates me to see perfectly healthy 25 year old guys talking about much better their life is since they got their "medical" use green card. there's nothing wrong with getting high, but i hate people that are full of shit!
Totally agree.
When talking about addiction, I think it can be important to differentiate between physical addiction (like heroin) and mental addiction (gambling or cannabis).
Sometimes a person is both physically and mentally addicted to a drug. Both forms can overlap or be exclusively independent for each other, and each form can vary in strength. For example, the gambling addict that is hopelessly addicted to gambling, and has lost almost all self control. That is an entirely mental addiction that's no less potent than the physical addiction of a heroin addict. Smoking is a combination of both forms of addiction. Cigarettes have mild physical symptoms and are also very mentally addictive and habit forming, some would say there as hard to give up as heroin, if not harder. And finally, heroin has severe physical withdrawal symptoms, but many users find that once they've overcome the physical addiction, the real battle then begins with the mental addiction, which can lead to extreme depression, insomnia and lethargy for months if not years.
My point is, there are many forms of addiction. Each with different elements or contributing factors. No form is better or worse by default, and each form can vary in magnitude depending on the circumstances. So to say substance A is more addictive than substance B, is greatly oversimplifying things.