Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: GoodShitExplorer on October 03, 2012, 05:26 am
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Junk
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I think it's a misconception that LSD (or any hallucinogenic for that matter) is a guarantee for any type of knowledge, let alone stand useful knowledge. (Not that I'm implying OP is saying so).
It's easy to ignore meaningful experiences, and even easier to misinterpret them. Fact of the matter is that hallucinogenics are too often seen as miracle drugs that will give you insight into the universe, your life and all of your pent up insecurities. This is simply not true.
You may (and propably will) be confronted with suppressed thoughts, ideas and emotions but how you deal with it is entirely up to you. If you're an ignorant idiot to start with, chances are hallucinogenics won't change that.
LSD won't teach you more than life itself will. It will temporarily give you a different perspective. You can hang on to that perspective, incorporate it into your life or choose to forget all about it.
And that's okay too. Some things it will throw at you may be hard to deal with, or you may just not be ready for them.
On a more personal note;
I took LSD for the first time when I was 18, and was just cruising along life unsure of who I was, but still feeling like I was better than most people. That I wasn't going to die soon, that I was on top of the world, that death isn't all that scary. The usual adolescent bullshit. Now, I have to tell that I'm a philosophically active person. I often contemplate, articulate and tweak my view of life 'n all that jazz. I usually end up feeling disappointed when talking to my peers about such things because of the little thought that they seem to put into such things, and thought LSD might be a good partner to converse with. Anyway, that night I learned two things:
1) Humility.
Being "a person" is not an achievement, nor is contemplating life. And though your 'ego' is to be valued, it's no more valuable than that of anyone else.
Death might not be scary in theory, but you will shit your pants when confronted with it on an emotional level. Life is something to be celebrated.
2) It's okay not to know what you're doing with your life. Most people don't. The key is just to actually live.
Up till then I always had a sense of impending doom. A feeling that I had to 'choose what I was going to do with my life, before it was too late'.
These two lessons made me realized how depressed and insecure I was in the first place. They made me want to improve myself and gave me a certain sense of calmness.
So, to answer your question. Yes, I do think hallucinogenics can give you knowledge, but they are just like any other experience. You might learn nothing or you might learn things you weren't looking for in the first place. I'm not even going to try to tackle the topic question. Although some of my experiences made me feel better, I still have to insist that happiness is a very complicated (not to mention personal) thing, which is not to be confused with simple euphoria.
I'm sorry if I'm coming off a bit preachy, that's absolutely not my intention. These are just my two cents.
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<removed>
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I think drugs provide a better backdrop to the situations where you can learn to be happy than alcohol and cigs, and drugs also get you into social situations unheard of in the alcohol world - after parties for example. Also i think dealing with the risks of being outwith the law gives you confidence in a way.
I used to be very insecure and unsure of myself, but i found MDMA gave me a love for my life. That tranquility it gave me was beyond therapeutic, i got this chemical reassurance that sometimes the only problem in your life is thinking you have one.
i remember thinking LSD would be the epiphany id always been waiting for, that this one trip would turn my life upside down. It didnt, but i had some very interesting thoughts under its influence, which made me a wider thinker and thus a somewhat more "balanced" person, so i guess that made me more able to be happy. DMT gave me a trip which showed me in four boxes, one was me with friends getting along chatting, another at work being capable and professional, another me alone listlessly worrying about nonsense, and one was my dreams of the future - all of it was so matter of fact and friendly to my mind that it was vastly reassuring on a another level; having a chemical resonate my brain to state of harmony let me knew i was doing alright and the way it mocked my worries gave me a shake that made me get over myself. (for a while!)
i think at the end of the day it really is just you who makes yourself happy, nothing can be ingested which purely by its pharmacodynamics will rewire your brain to a happy state for you. But they certainly do help you rewire your brain if you have the right way about you.
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Im jealous of the ignorant to TBH.
Not that i would take back what i know as this is my life, but i look at the ignorant masses who continue to smile and carry on like everything is great and perfect and i cant help but feel a little jealous as i miss the good ole days before i shattered my ego into tiny little fragments with a bombardment of psychedelic and other drugs.
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good time not long time
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Im jealous of the ignorant to TBH.
Not that i would take back what i know as this is my life, but i look at the ignorant masses who continue to smile and carry on like everything is great and perfect and i cant help but feel a little jealous as i miss the good ole days before i shattered my ego into tiny little fragments with a bombardment of psychedelic and other drugs.
I was at to until over time using psychedelics as a tool I have come to peace with myself in knowing that while I won't make a large impact in humanity I still have a role/goals to fulfill and I intend to do so.
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It seems as if i went so far down the rabbit hole, i popped up on the other side, only to witness the same thing. I started taking psychedelics because of all the knowledge and insights I EXPECTED, those came with time and maturity, and usually on my reflection of certain trips while sober. Drugs do make me happy, but clear precise decisions done while not being under the influence or aura of such tools allow me to determine the quality and positiveness of said drug experiences. I never seen shapeshifting reptiles sober, but have seen humans shape shift on lsd into scaly reptiles, and those experiences introduced me into morphogenetic fields, brain entrainment and the science on how hypnotism work.
as of now, i call psychedelics tools and they are fun to play with. They allow me to realize options i may not have seen without them. At the root, the evolution of life is made up of a specific mathematics embedded into the code of everything. A specific folding of event geometries called the fibonacci sequence. Ideas, motions, and emotions should follow this process of folding and unfolding to create a fractal life for self. the drugs entrain my mind easiest to neat fractal frequency points -good decisions.
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In a direct answer to the title - No, they do not.
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Does life make you happy in the long run?
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Does life make you happy in the long run?
Depends if you are a God or a Clod.
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I really can't imagine someone being happy 24/7 for eternity.
To even experience happiness you need to have an idea of what sadness is. Its always relative. Light and dark, hot and cold etc.
Really, this all comes down to explaining consciousness, how it is that people can feel and experience things. And to this day, consciousness still baffles me. In fact, alot of things baffle me in this world when you start thinking about them alot.
Yes I think people can lead more happy lives than they otherwise would by taking drugs. But really, all you need to do to remain happy is make sure your brain has all the right chemicals needed for pleasure, and keep them "topped up" constantly. So thats things like serotonin, dopamine etc. Just having a healthy diet is enough to achieve good quantities of these neurochemicals but it also comes down to individual genetics. I mean, its pretty obvious when you look at people: Some people are naturally happier than others. And the reason for this can be explained by genetics and chemical levels in the brain. We all have different genetics, different diets and therefore some of us have more of the good brain chemicals than others. So the key to happiness is really just to keep your brain healthy and keep the neurochemicals which give you happiness stocked up.
They did an experiment on rats where they offered the rat food vs. pressing a lever to release dopamine into its brain. The rats sat there pressing that button 24/7 foregoing food and even sex because when it comes down to it, ITS ALL ABOUT BRAIN CHEMISTRY AND NOTHING ELSE.
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Happiness comes from within.
Drugs/psychedelics can act as a catalyst to your ventures within, force/help you to look within.
But ultimately, enlightenment lies within your natural self, achieved through persistent meditation, and the consistent questioning of yourself "Will this ultimately bring happiness to my life?"
Cheers
-Seshat
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In a direct answer to the title - No, they do not.
They can enhance your life though. When l reflect on the most memorable moments of my life, about a third of them involve drugs in one form or another. Near the top, Glastonbury 2004; me, 8 friends, three tents, a shedload of drugs, great music and some very hedonistic tent parties. Then getting up early in the morning to the warm morning sun and queuing up for bacon baps and coffee. Rolling joints for breakfast whilst reading the morning papers on warm deckchairs. Ahhhhhh.......
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They can do yeah but only up to a point, it depends how you use drugs. I think most heavy drug users use drugs as a form of escapism. Including myself.
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Depends on what makes you happy, some can use freely for years with very little detrimental effects on there life others can try once or twice and the next thing they know there sat in a Glasgow slum injecting some shit into there crotch, are they happy long term, who knows.
Genetic make up of an individual will have as much influence on this as environmental factors, i recently lost a friend using heroin, he was so ashamed at having the addiction, he was a recovering alcoholic but no body knew, it was a habit he picked up i prison, could we have helped?
Probably, but he kept it quiet and finished his life unhappy, slumped on a half way house sofa.
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I'm sorry to hear about your friend Sausage and Mash.
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No, drugs do not make you happy, they only provide a respite from monotony, pain, anxiety, and depression each of us faces throughout our lives. It is illusory to think an external substance or desire can bring us everlasting happiness since an external perspective doesn't address the discomfort we have. Only looking inside does one find peace . . . and unity . . . and joy. Our external reality mirrors our internal reality, so change must start there.
Just my humble opinion, of course.
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when in India government was planing to prohibit cannabis, they created public comity and invited some religious leaders as well. So one sadhu wrote to government, life of many people very hard in India, and prohibition of cannabis will increase suffering of people tremendously. Drugs can make you happy and they can make the whole country happy too. That would be no mistake to say India was much more happy country before cannabis got prohibited. After it been used in EVERY household thousand years Indian government pressurized by American friend prohibited. That caused rise of prices and simply made cannabis products out of reach to 90% of population.
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Drugs are tools. Especially psychedelic drugs. I think some of psychedelic drugs are given to us by mother nature as tools to explore our mind and perception of reality.
However, reality is what you make it to be.
You should specify which drugs in your original question. Not all drugs are the same.
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when in India government was planing to prohibit cannabis, they created public comity and invited some religious leaders as well. So one sadhu wrote to government, life of many people very hard in India, and prohibition of cannabis will increase suffering of people tremendously. Drugs can make you happy and they can make the whole country happy too. That would be no mistake to say India was much more happy country before cannabis got prohibited. After it been used in EVERY household thousand years Indian government pressurized by American friend prohibited. That caused rise of prices and simply made cannabis products out of reach to 90% of population.
kill america; an eye for an eye.
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when in India government was planing to prohibit cannabis, they created public comity and invited some religious leaders as well. So one sadhu wrote to government, life of many people very hard in India, and prohibition of cannabis will increase suffering of people tremendously. Drugs can make you happy and they can make the whole country happy too. That would be no mistake to say India was much more happy country before cannabis got prohibited. After it been used in EVERY household thousand years Indian government pressurized by American friend prohibited. That caused rise of prices and simply made cannabis products out of reach to 90% of population.
kill america; an eye for an eye.
80% of world science in chemistry and molecular biology been done in USA , as such it is engine of progress. Science and technology transforming our lives, but myths and believes framing our response. Crooked politicians trying hard to keep things the same, but I cant see how they may succeed, contradiction in terms, pay for change and prevent that change same time, hardly possible.
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Where did you get that percentage from?
cant say exactly now, I read quite few journals Science and Nature my favorites
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Depends on what drugs, and how you use them. Will drinking at home by yourself make you happy? Probably not. But saturday night out drinking with some mates is probably the highlight of a lot of peoples weeks. For me at least drugs are a very social activity, which is probably why I like drugs like alcohol and mdma. So yeah I think they certainly add something to life. But like I said it really depends on the drug and the use pattern and when different people hear the question "Do drugs make you happy?" they are all thinking of their own usage and own drug of choice, so we're all kind of answering a different question "Does my drug usage make me happy?"
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Thought I'd share these interesting statistics on this topic, make of them whatever you wish to (clearwebalert) http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2009/can-drugs-make-you-happy/
In the long term, my personal answer would be no. You need to find your own personal happiness with in yourself, and no drug can ever give you that but yourself. I would not rely on any drug for my long term personal happiness, don't get me wrong, they add to my experience, and may amplify my happiness in the short term (like your voice would do to a microphone), but my own personal level of happiness still remains the same whether I do drugs or not. In other words, I do not rely on drugs for my happiness, but I am grateful for the amazing experiences I've had with them, and the great times I've shared with friends on them. If you want happiness in the long term (without relying on anything to achieve it), your happiness has to come from within you :)
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At least with the drugs I'm into, I see them as a way to enhance things that I already enjoy. A regular conversation between complete strangers becomes a completely different (and awesome) experience when under the influence of MDMA. If you look at a regular college party, without alcohol it would really just be a bunch of douchebags sitting in a house. And coke just has that tendency to make one feel like a fucking badass no matter what they're doing.
that being said, the human mind has a nasty habit of growing accustomed to things that make it's host happy (or sad, for that matter). If you make a habit of consuming any kind of mind-altering chemical every single time you do a certain thing to make the experience "more fun," after enough repetition you will find that you have become dependent on that same chemical to enjoy yourself at all.
Whether or not drugs will continue to give a person enjoyment in the long run really depends on that person's degree of responsibility and self control. If neither of those things are present, things can go downhill very quickly. But really, even if drugs didn't exist that same person would probably find something else to fuck their life up with; at worst, it would just be a quicker means to the same end.
-schmuck
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yes, cannabis makes user strong and mentally fit. it is smoked as a natural remedy for a lot of alinements.
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yes, cannabis makes user strong and mentally fit. it is smoked as a natural remedy for a lot of alinements.
I can't tell if you're joking or not... but I have no idea how you would have come to that conclusion. If you're judging based on what a bunch of people do... well, a bunch of people also handle lethal snakes as a way of proving that God exists and is protecting them or whatever the Hell it is they're out to prove. But then some of them die. Oops. Oh well. Guess God didn't like that one very much.
I hope cannabis likes you more than God likes the last poor bastard who pissed off the wrong snake :)
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LSD and few other drugs are so powerful tools that one can gain tremendous amount of self-insight and also explore the boundaries of human knowledge. Knowing what you know that others do not know might make your powerful in a way but it can also be very painful depending on the (type of) knowledge you gain through the use of these tools. Of course it also depends on the person whether one feels happy knowing the truth or the truth itself is the cause of pain to one.
My thought on knowledge is that it’s always painful but most of the time it’s liberating. So, it’s a mixed feeling. Drug use might bring momentary happiness but in the long run the knowledge you gain can make you very unhappy but can set you free.
So, I am in for the use of these kinds of drugs. I know it will be painful from time to time. But I will feel the freedom of knowledge, etc!!!
What’s your stance and what are the drugs you think made you more knowledgeable and how?
i had 2 people swallow the pill of truth not to long ago and they straight up twisted and turned afterwards and bailed their eyes out realzing their life for the last 24 years have been wasted believing its ok
its a bittersweat thing i kept appologizing saying im sorry and they were crying saying no thank you thank you, so its like the matrix in alot of the ways :)
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No- honestly, drugs have caused more pain and suffering in my and in everyone around me lives than I could have ever imagined or wished for.
:/
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yes, cannabis makes user strong and mentally fit. it is smoked as a natural remedy for a lot of alinements.
Smoking cannabis in no way makes you more mentally fit, possibly creatively it could be a positive , but in general it clouds your mind and doesn't let your mind reach its full potential.
I think it tricks you into thinking that you are thinking more deeply than you really are.
Just my opinion .
Not just your opinion, that's basically what I got out of smoking the stuff haha, when I quit I can think soooooooo much more clearly now.
It's really a big difference it just takes you stopping for a while to understand.
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yes, cannabis makes user strong and mentally fit. it is smoked as a natural remedy for a lot of alinements.
Smoking cannabis in no way makes you more mentally fit, possibly creatively it could be a positive , but in general it clouds your mind and doesn't let your mind reach its full potential.
I think it tricks you into thinking that you are thinking more deeply than you really are.
Just my opinion .
Not just your opinion, that's basically what I got out of smoking the stuff haha, when I quit I can think soooooooo much more clearly now.
It's really a big difference it just takes you stopping for a while to understand.
Its crazy that feeling of clarity you get when having a substance "epiphany" , not sure if that's a good way to put it, i recently had this moment in an ER , due to a meth overdose , not a single feeling of wanting more since.
It takes time to get that your "clarity" back, but it kinda feels like being reborn, this sounds corny as hell, but its how it felt to me.
Responsible drug use all the way , such a hard thing to achieve though.
Life is great , i lost sight of that for awhile , so grateful to have it back.
Sorry to hear that Spice! Glad you're back and better than ever (really glad you're even alive)!
Take care man and be careful!
-DF
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As to everyone talking down about Cannabis, I have to say this, you are right and wrong at the same time. Just like with any argument, there is truth to both sides. Yes, not smoking after two weeks a person can think more clearly, but Cannabis does make one think different in a good way. Makes one "think outside the box"
Many people/patients use Cannabis daily in order to live normal lives. Freedom from PTSD, Anxiety problems, and pain management.
I try to look at drugs as a temporary solution, not a permanent one. A solution none the less.
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No, drugs don't make you happier "in the long run", they make you happier now. Family, friends, health, etc. are what make you stay happy.
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In my opinion cannabis in the long run, does not make you happier. I have experienced de-realization/personalization and other anxiety issues for about 6 months after using cannabis for one of my first times (massive panic attack). In the short term, yes it can make you happy, but other times it can just make you depressed and anxious. I believe long term use of cannabis does destroy your motivation, hence why I've practically given it up unless I'm using other drugs at the time (e.g mdma).
I believe, Ketamine when used in a responsible manor can make you happier. I.e a small amount every 7/10 days can treat depression in some people. There is quite a bit or research on this on the internet. But obviously using a shit load of Ketamine everyday isn't going to make you happier. It all depends on how the drug is used and who is using it...
For example, MDMA can help people with PTSD as it allows you talk so freely about things you can't normally talk about. It's helped me through some pretty rough stages in my life just by sitting down with a few friends and talking about my problems I couldn't have otherwise done. It must be very much more useful when used in a professional manor with someone who actually has PTSD I believe.
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i herd marijuana kills motivation too. Hell, I use to believe it too. On the other hand, I have been more productive in my entire life and I am also smoking more than ever.
Myth Busted.
Its the person, not the drug.