Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: candorean on May 09, 2012, 03:52 am
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Before I do any drugs, I do a shitton of reading on it. I go through all the medical literature because I want to know what I'm getting into. I've found that Meth has the exact same safety profile as dextro. Just another demonized drug because of idiot users. Before you call it addictive let me explain what I've found from scientific journals:
1. First off, Methamphetamine is only psychologically addictive. Just like Cannabis, food, or the internet. Methamphetamine's addiction potential is equal to prescription dextroamphetamine (at similarly potent doses). If you are wondering why d-amph addicts are so much rarer, it's because d-amph is typically given out in prescription tablets only. People can still break it down and snort it, but the difference is that these prescriptions regulate their dosage every month and drastically lowers the chances of addiction. Just another reason why the drug war is such a failure really. European speed is so diluted and cut that I'd be surprised if you even got 10% dextro in your powder. No American dealer wants to sell dextroamph because it takes an extra step in synthesis and is less potent. If Europe had the availability to meth precursors like America did, absolutely NO dealer would be selling l- or d-amphetamine. Pharmaceutical companies have the incentive to use d- and l-amphetamine because meth carries such a stigma that patients won't want to take it. Big pharma has near free access to precursors and laboratories so making the slightly less potent d-amph costs almost nothing to them. It is saddening that people who are "pro-drugs except for meth" are tricked by the same misinformation that they hate so much when it's against cannabis. Hopefully by this point, you and I are on the same page and have moved past this "evil meth" label. Thus, I will refer to meth as amphetamine from now on.
Significant withdrawal effects only occur when amph is continuously redosed in high dosages. Why? Because constant redosing causes neurotoxicity. The long half life of all amphetamine means that redosing will additively increase blood plasma levels and your brain will soak in that. Acute tolerance shuts out euphoria around the time you reach your first half life. Redosing = excitotoxicity and accumulation of oxidative reactive species in the absense of most of the euphoria. Daily usage is only safe at therapeutic dosages (UNDER ~0.5mg/kg). It seems like it is generally agreed upon that meth is more potent weight by weight than dextro (about 1.3x). When the dosages are matched, they have the exact same safety profile.
Chronic use at anything above therapeutic level causes persisting DA striatal depletion. As in, it comes back VERY slowly (think years) and it isn't 100%. You can withdraw from Heroin and get away without lasting physical damage. The same cannot be said for amphetamines. The striatal depletions go unnoticed by binge users until they stop dosing whereupon shit gets real. Quickly. These are the only people that get severe withdrawal effects and feel extremely addicted. Just like every other drug, binging is bad. Before you call therapeutic dosages too pussylike, read the rest of my post.
2. Pre-treatment. Holy fuck I was glad to find out about this before I started using. Pre-treatment takes only one week and it permanently boosts all your subsequent amphetamine effects. It is called sensitization or reverse-tolerance. When taken at sub neurotoxic dosages, the brain becomes supersensitized to all subsequent amphetamine dosages. This effect has been tested to last longer than 120 days and is probably permanent. Animals were intially given a single small amphetamine dosage. In 120 days, they received their second dosage and the effects were dramatically boosted. Tests in human subjects show that the subjective high is nearly doubled from baseline. More research has shown that the optimal pre-treatment schedule is 0.15mg/kg daily for 7 days. The longer the withdrawal period after that, the stronger the effects (up to 30 days when it levels out). Also, did I mention that pre-treatment significantly reduces neurotoxicity in subsequent binges and high dosages? If your first few amphetamine uses were high dosage, you shocked your brain. You most likely had neurotoxic hyperthermia which diminishes sensitization.
Source of pretreatment on sensitization and reverse tolerance: http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/26144/1/0000221.pdf
Source of pretreatment on neurotoxicity: http://www.nature.com/?file=/npp/journal/v28/n10/abs/1300247a.html
Bonus source for one dosage causing lasting sensitization: http://www.neuro.cjb.net/content/19/21/9579.short
(please keep in mind these dosages in the article are for rats and NOT for humans)
3. Any tolerance to amphetamines that last longer than 5 days is caused by neurotoxicity. The main reason for amphetamine's tolerance is its half life and how quickly the body adjusts to the presence of amphetamine in the blood. After only 3 days (approximately 5 half lives, i.e. ~97% of the drug is gone), this tolerance should be almost completely gone. Any persisting tolerance after 5 days was caused by striatal DA depletions as well as downregulation of D2 receptors. Again, if your tolerance lasts more than 5 days, reconsider your amount and frequency of dosage. Repeated high dosages without adequate time in between will fuck up your shit. The rewarding effects of sensitization is also severely diminished by this binge use.
Source: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584602002579
(I've seen several other sources but this is one I found with a quick search)
4. If you enjoy higher dosages, you must spread them out. This goes back to my last point. Moderately high dosages can actually be safe given that you washout the drugs (about 5 half lives) before redosing.
5. If you are female, the effects of amphetamine neurotoxicity are two folds stronger and psychosis along with addiction potential occur at half the dosage for males. The presence of certain male androgens are neuroprotective against amphetamine. Sorry, women.
6. Smoking and IV have the same safety profile as other ROA's when dosages are matched for bioavailibility and may actually be safer because of their shorter half lives. Rats can take single 25mg/kg injections with no neurotoxicity because their amphetamine half life is only one hour compared to the human time of 9-12 hours. Amphetamines are one of the rare drugs where these ROAs are safer because amphetamine neurotoxicity is primarily exacerbated by the time it stays in the body. Unfortunately, binge use with smoking or IV causes half life to be irrelevant and the safety profile becomes much more dangerous.
7. If you binge, STAY out places that are hotter than room temperature! Heat literally multiplies the tolerance and deficits you are causing to your brain. And, you must have already caused a lot of deficits if you are dumb enough to be a binge user.
To sum it up, DON'T FUCKING BINGE!
8. If you have suffered psychosis from amphetamine, I would consider stopping usage. Forever. And yes, even if it only happened once. The implications from psychosis are more than just some temporary effect because you didn't sleep. Amphetamine psychosis is actually caused by the repeated dosage - sleep deprivation only made your brain more vulnerable. The variables that play into psychosis are so wide that studies have yet to really be conclusive on them. Currently, it is believed that prolonged amphetamine blood plasma induces dopamine hyperreactivity. Guess how schizophrenics are diagnosed? Dopamine hyperactivity. Again, this probably causes lasting deficits.
Want to avoid psychosis? Don't. Binge. It is nearly impossible to induce psychosis if there are more than 5 hours of sleep between dosages unless you were already genetically predisposed.
Here's the schedule a beginner should follow for daily productive use and to prevent neurotoxicity (Assuming 99% bioavailability. Adjust dosages for your ROA bioavailability):
Days 1-7: 0.15mg/kg
Days 8-?: <0.5mg/kg for males, <0.25mg/kg for females
No more than once a day
For recreational use:
Days 1-7:0.15mg/kg
Days 8-?: <1.0mg/kg for males, <0.5mg/kg for females
No more than once every 3-4 days
After pretreatment and sensitization, 1.0mg/kg WILL bring a satisfying rush. On a 160 pound person, that would be about 72mg. If it sounds too little to you, than you have gone too far.
It's that simple. Moderation is key, what a surprise huh? If everybody took amphetamines responsibly with milligram scales, we would probably be exploring the universe by now.
P.S. As a bonus, take Vitamin C and E for antioxidants. Take Magnesium to slow down acute tolerance (NMDA antagonist = be higher for longer! YAY). Zinc supplementation was also found to be synergistic with amphetamine in ADHD patients. I don't know its effects on normal people, but I take it anyway. For further reading, look up "Robinson TE". He is by far my favorite researcher. Another goodie is Carl Hart. He is a forerunner on meth research and always talks about the exaggerated claims on meth. He himself said that scientists have known for a long time that methamphetamine is exactly like dextroamphetamine at a drug policy conference. Watch him speak here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wNS_aRxTqs
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Thank you for posting, truly informative- this will help guide my future use.. Years ago when I first discovered amps, I would binge for 48h+, re-dosing again and again getting less and less (and usually feeling shit after 8h anyway). Hurts to thing about the damage I've done, but there's no sense dwelling..
Recently my use has been more towards your suggested guidelines, doing this is amazingly productive and rewarding.. Not to mention, none of the horrible side-effects I assumed were just part of amphetamine use.
Along the line of achieving Moderation, it's difficult to pace oneself with these drugs as we all know.
I had a special 'hotel safe' custom modified for myself like so; You throw your stash in the safe, set a timer (from 10 mins to 7 days) and the box locks until the time passes. I wonder if there would be a market for these on SR? (it was rather expensive..)
This allows you to plan your drug use to optimal schedules and stick to it without doing battle with your mind ;)
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I see how binging is the root of most amphetamine problems but its also the best part of doing amphetamines in my opinion. 48 - 72 hours is usually what I go for when I start. I also have been taking either dexedrine, adderall or vyvanse daily for add since I was 9 which is more than half my life. It's scary to have the damage all laid out for you but its my favorite thing ever. I just never want to go to sleep again. I'm still reasonably young and probably wont have to worry about this till later. Staying nourished and drinking ice water, eating cyclone popsicles, taking fish oil supplements, brushing and flossing your teeth, all of that is really key. I think of it as harm reduction in a sense.
edit: After doing a lot more speed since I wrote this post and noticing how different it is now than when I first started a couple years ago, I want to say that staying up for as long as possible is a terrible idea and you will ruin yourself eventually, no matter how many great times you have in the process. I think I might quit doing speed, or at least quit doing it by myself either for fun or for the purposes of "supplementing" my medicated dose. Speed is fucked. The last time I felt satisfied with my life or optimistic about the future was not long before I tried speed. I'm not saying there is a correlation, but I would say for certain that speed has not helped. Certainly not recently.
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a huge candorean-inspired boner for this!
amazing :D
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If I could give karma, I would.
A+ post
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Gave you +1 karma! :)
Threads like this are what make our community so wonderful, unbiased truth with absolutely no bullshit. You've done future meth users a huge huge favor, so good on you. ;D
xoxo
Priscilla
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Great info. :D
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Part II (I'm bored and thought more should know):
-Take Nicotinamide (also known as niacinamide) pre-dosage or post-dosage. If you have niacin, it'll work as well since it is metabolized into niacinamide in the digestive system. It prevents depletion of energy (measured in ATP/ADP ratio for those that took biology) and really helps block any feeling of comedown or feeling tired afterwards. It also reduces neurotoxicity potential - always a welcome effect. Niacinamide is directly converted into NADH (available energy for the body) which is important for the brain before being subjected to amphetamine or for recuperating afterwards. Oddly enough, ingestion of niacinamide at the same time as amphetamine had no change. Studies have shown it effective only in pre and post dosage scenarios (3 hours before or 6 hours after)/
Source on energy depletion (d-amph): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10566977
Source on energy depletion 2 (meth): http://journals.lww.com/neuroreport/Abstract/1997/05260/Nicotinamide_attenuates_methamphetamine_induced.18.aspx
Anecdotal sources: http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65179
Anecdotal source 2: Me.
- Avoid mixing caffeine with any amphetamines. I posted this in another thread, but caffeine antagonizes adenosine receptors which are involved in amphetamine's mechanism of action. This directly slows down the removal of amphetamine from the blood. At first, this may sound cool, but if you remember from what I said earlier, the brain shuts out the euphoria long before you even reach the first half-life (about 10 hours). Once again, the longer amphetamine stays in the blood, the harder neurotoxicity hits. This is why you should stay away from cut stuff because the dealer is trading your safety in exchange for extra money in his pocket. Amphetamines are great for narcolepsy because no matter how often you take them, significant tolerance does not develop to its wakefulness effects. You do not need caffeine along with it unless you enjoy insomnia. Admittedly, binge users may want insomnia to keep dosing but I'll just pretend like these people don't exist.
-Cannabis in conjuction with amphetamine is probably helpful. I say probably because there has been only one study done on this comparing the performance of 3 different groups - non-drug users, methamphetamine-only users, and methamphetamine + cannabis users. From the data, if I said non-users were at 100%, meth+cannabis would be 95% and meth-only users would be at 70%. Meth+cannabis users actually beat the non-users in several tests. There are too many factors that weren't accounted for (i.e. if cannabis merely reduced their meth usage) for me to say outright that weed helps with amphetamine neurotoxicity, but it sure looks like it. What it DOES show is that cannabis does not add physical damage when used with amphetamine. So toke away! Also, if it was a concern to anyone reading, this study involved patients from an addiction clinic. Meaning high dosage binge users. Responsible amphetamine users do not suffer the same impairments that they do.
Source: http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Neurocognitive_Performance_of_Meth_Users_Discordant_for_Hx_of_Marijuana_Exp.pdf
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You should do this type of thing for every major drug, compile it and then sticky it :)
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Coacaine works about the same on the brain as meth so your post really hits home for me. When I was a kid (about 15 yrs old) I got into using cocaine. Not knowing much about drugs other than uninformed facts and myths from by circle of "friends" I didnt realize the severity of what I was dealing with. It eventually escalated to where i was binging for 3-4 days out of the week doing a ball every day or two this lasted for over 1 year. What saved me somewhat is that I always forced myself to go to sleep and eat. I never stayed up for more than 1 night without sleeping so I dont know if its considered binging or just heavy use but even years after I stopped I still never felt the same again. I had depression , paranoia, profuse sweating, social anxiety my memory was affected. After I stopped being a regular user I still indulged from time to time every few months but whenever I did my comedown and symptoms afterwards got 10x worse so I eventually stopped using all together about 2 years ago. Now 10 years later from when I first used and I still have social anxiety , I sweat profusely and my memory is pretty bad compared to how it used to be. I also factor in the fact that the coke I was getting was most likely cut with all sorts of shit speed, RC's, and god knows what cattle deworming crap :o To anyone new to this if you want to stay relatively safe use moderation, listen to your body and buy your drugs from someone you can trust(I know the last one is not always an option)
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good post and thanks for the info. there is a post in this drug safety thread about how taking benzo during your comedown helps quite a bit with neurotoxicity. it contained links to medical studies, etc.. unfortunately i can't find it though ( or didn't look hard enough .... )
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awesome well researched information!!!! +1!!
i've done some calculations with your tables and determined my safe limit for a single session. i must know my body rather well because i rarely have exceeded that in the past.
although when i was younger and crazier i went way beyond those safe thresholds....luckily meth was very rare back then and my usage was rather limited.
the whole concept of small doses to bring down tolerance is very interesting. i just don't think my body could handle that, ah well. :)
*destiny*
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Being someone who has already started using meth a little prior to seeing this amazing post, I wonder if abstaining for a period of time - 1 month, 6 months, 1 year - whatever it takes, is it possible to still take advantage of the above method of bring down tolerance as long as the safe limit dosing is maintained following this exercise?
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Being someone who has already started using meth a little prior to seeing this amazing post, I wonder if abstaining for a period of time - 1 month, 6 months, 1 year - whatever it takes, is it possible to still take advantage of the above method of bring down tolerance as long as the safe limit dosing is maintained following this exercise?
i am also curious as to this. does pre-treatment only work for the first time user?
my first dozen or so uses of speed were all dexamphetamine and were very small doses (about 10-20 mg). to this day i am very sensitive to any amphetamine-like stimulant. and i'm female as well. my euphoria always outlasts anyone else i'm with. they redose and redose and i can ride a single dose for 6+ hours.
did i accidentally pre-treat myself?? this is all so fascinating.
*destiny*
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For recreational use:
Days 1-7:0.15mg/kg
Days 8-?: <1.0mg/kg for males, <0.5mg/kg for females
No more than once every 3-4 days
I need some help understanding this. Lets say I'm 80kg. male and I want to per-treat for recreational use. Assuming 99% bio-availability I'm to take 80kg*0.15kg/mg=12mg. daily for the first 7 days? Or every 3-4 days? After that I can take up to 80mg. in one dose not more often than every 3-4 days?
Thanks..
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I've been doing a bit more research on Niacin - Vitamin B3 which the body metabolises into niacinamide has some warnings around it in terms of taking "too much" without a doctor's say so.
From what I've seen, daily recommended dose for females and males is under 20mg (females slighly less than males).
I've seen dedicated Niacin vitamin tables contain between 250 and 500mg.
Candorean, I couldn't see specific dosage info in the links you posted, but if you have done any detailed research on recommended pre/post loading dosage for Niacin, I would be very interested to read.
Even still, your continuous efforts and wealth of information amazes me, thank you so much!
/anti-gov rant on - If the ignorant majority of the world took the time to read and understand what goes on in these forums, specifically the Drug Safety section, they would truly wonder whether they are looking at a completely unrelated forum, not one filled with drug dealers and drug users.
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Being someone who has already started using meth a little prior to seeing this amazing post, I wonder if abstaining for a period of time - 1 month, 6 months, 1 year - whatever it takes, is it possible to still take advantage of the above method of bring down tolerance as long as the safe limit dosing is maintained following this exercise?
The pretreatment schedule is only a guideline. Any repeated low-dosage schedule should work just as effectively if done right. If you are asking about abstaining after incurring neurotoxic damage, it is honestly impossible for me to say. Studies checking for downregulation of amphetamine and tolerance require killing the rats to examine their brain tissues. If we go purely on symptoms, rats on a high dosage regimen appear to reach baseline levels (of social isolation, stereotypy, and amount of physical activity) after a couple weeks of abstinence. Primates typically take longer - about 30 days. Who knows what it really means though - the brain could be compensating with different regions of activity or maybe showing partial signs of recovery. I think at this point I should emphasize that pre-treatment/sensitization is permanent and should be ignored if a person has already started amphetamine. Nobody can really say how much sensitization has an effect after neurotoxic doses because there aren't any studies on it.
i am also curious as to this. does pre-treatment only work for the first time user?
my first dozen or so uses of speed were all dexamphetamine and were very small doses (about 10-20 mg). to this day i am very sensitive to any amphetamine-like stimulant. and i'm female as well. my euphoria always outlasts anyone else i'm with. they redose and redose and i can ride a single dose for 6+ hours.
did i accidentally pre-treat myself?? this is all so fascinating.
Yes, you accidentally pretreated yourself correctly. Very lucky. Being a female had a lot to do with it too since women feel the affects of sensitization slightly more than men do. Check out this graph from a sensitization study:
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0006322310006487-gr3.jpg
Female hormones actually make the effects of AMPH really wonky. The menstrual cycle changes the subjective effects and you'll feel the difference during follicular/luteal phases. Check out this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12213517
I need some help understanding this. Lets say I'm 80kg. male and I want to per-treat for recreational use. Assuming 99% bio-availability I'm to take 80kg*0.15kg/mg=12mg. daily for the first 7 days? Or every 3-4 days? After that I can take up to 80mg. in one dose not more often than every 3-4 days?
Thanks..
12 mg daily, sorry I wasn't clear. I would suggest an escalating dose as well to build up tolerance to hyperthermia (after seven days, do 30mg and then 50mg and finally 80mg with a few days in between each dose). It's annoying to do, but these effects are permanent so it wouldn't be annoyance later on.
I've been doing a bit more research on Niacin - Vitamin B3 which the body metabolises into niacinamide has some warnings around it in terms of taking "too much" without a doctor's say so.
From what I've seen, daily recommended dose for females and males is under 20mg (females slighly less than males).
I've seen dedicated Niacin vitamin tables contain between 250 and 500mg.
Candorean, I couldn't see specific dosage info in the links you posted, but if you have done any detailed research on recommended pre/post loading dosage for Niacin, I would be very interested to read.
Even still, your continuous efforts and wealth of information amazes me, thank you so much!
/anti-gov rant on - If the ignorant majority of the world took the time to read and understand what goes on in these forums, specifically the Drug Safety section, they would truly wonder whether they are looking at a completely unrelated forum, not one filled with drug dealers and drug users.
Sadly there isn't much research on niacinamide dosage either. The ones specifically done with amphetamine in scientific journals use hyperdoses to see if there is a difference. From what I've seen though, niacinamide is safe until you reach 4 grams daily. I personally take one gram on sober days and two grams on amph days (1g in the morning, 1g at night). Of all the supplements, I would say niacinamide made the biggest difference in preventing comedowns for me. I practically feel 100% normal after amph wears off and I don't get insomnia anymore even while dosing in the afternoon.
Next, I'm going to make a guide on using amphetamine to be productive. There has been a lot of new studies and promising information that I'd love to share with you guys but I don't have the time right now. I'll include a section on how you can take advantage of amphetamine's ability to increase healthy neurotrophic growth factors in the brain. I highly recommend that you guys hop on Google Scholar and start doing your own research. You'll learn lots of fascinating stuff and there's just too much for me to include on these forums. Amphetamine has a lot of hidden potential that hasn't moved past medical literature yet.
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Being someone who has already started using meth a little prior to seeing this amazing post, I wonder if abstaining for a period of time - 1 month, 6 months, 1 year - whatever it takes, is it possible to still take advantage of the above method of bring down tolerance as long as the safe limit dosing is maintained following this exercise?
The pretreatment schedule is only a guideline. Any repeated low-dosage schedule should work just as effectively if done right. If you are asking about abstaining after incurring neurotoxic damage, it is honestly impossible for me to say. Studies checking for downregulation of amphetamine and tolerance require killing the rats to examine their brain tissues. If we go purely on symptoms, rats on a high dosage regimen appear to reach baseline levels (of social isolation, stereotypy, and amount of physical activity) after a couple weeks of abstinence. Primates typically take longer - about 30 days. Who knows what it really means though - the brain could be compensating with different regions of activity or maybe showing partial signs of recovery. I think at this point I should emphasize that pre-treatment/sensitization is permanent and should be ignored if a person has already started amphetamine. Nobody can really say how much sensitization has an effect after neurotoxic doses because there aren't any studies on it.
i am also curious as to this. does pre-treatment only work for the first time user?
my first dozen or so uses of speed were all dexamphetamine and were very small doses (about 10-20 mg). to this day i am very sensitive to any amphetamine-like stimulant. and i'm female as well. my euphoria always outlasts anyone else i'm with. they redose and redose and i can ride a single dose for 6+ hours.
did i accidentally pre-treat myself?? this is all so fascinating.
Yes, you accidentally pretreated yourself correctly. Very lucky. Being a female had a lot to do with it too since women feel the affects of sensitization slightly more than men do. Check out this graph from a sensitization study:
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0006322310006487-gr3.jpg
Female hormones actually make the effects of AMPH really wonky. The menstrual cycle changes the subjective effects and you'll feel the difference during follicular/luteal phases. Check out this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12213517
in the interest of science...hope this doesn't gross any of the boys out. but that's really interesting because when i use amph or meth while on my period, it just stops for a day. like the cramps, bleeding, everything. then it comes back with a vengeance if i'm not finished. nothing else has ever done that before.
*destiny*
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Awesome! I tried to make a methamphetamine FAQ thread couple months ago actually but got sidetracked. Im glad to see you here candorean, your an asset to this forum, and from your posting, possibly a long lost twin. Seriously, I am the same way and I've always thought I was the last smart user around (not in an egotistical way). I've been defending meth around here for a while, though I have been a bit busy lately.
Anyway, I use meth every day, in place of adderall, and it works great for me, granted I had a amph habit before starting, but I never had sleep problems, inability to eat or any of the common negatives. Amph made my life soooo much better and methamp even more so.
Your dead on about that magnesium, I wouldn't go a day without it. I personally take magnesium taurate.
Also, i'll admit I didn't read it all yet as i'm more in the "type a paragraph/minute" mode right now, but just incase you didn't already have this posted I wanted to post about "desoxyn" (methamphetamine HCL) FDA approved for adhd and obesity. You almost never hear about it these days, but I love to tell the meth myth followers about it and watch their reactions, every one so far has said im a lying delusional tweaker, till I pull it up on my phone.
Long story short, eat/drink/sleep just as you did before you started and you can use indefinitely. Curve your usage around your life, not vice versa. The biggest rule to remember is, that one day sooner or later you will have to come down for an unknown period of time, albeit your or someone else's doing, just accept it when it comes, suck it up and when its over you can get 10x higher than before :^)
My saying is- Ride it and it will take you great places, follow it and it will take you to hell. If it ever gets ahead of you, stop, and let it come back for you.
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Next, I'm going to make a guide on using amphetamine to be productive. There has been a lot of new studies and promising information that I'd love to share with you guys but I don't have the time right now. I'll include a section on how you can take advantage of amphetamine's ability to increase healthy neurotrophic growth factors in the brain. I highly recommend that you guys hop on Google Scholar and start doing your own research. You'll learn lots of fascinating stuff and there's just too much for me to include on these forums. Amphetamine has a lot of hidden potential that hasn't moved past medical literature yet.
Next, I'm going to make a guide on using amphetamine to be productive. There has been a lot of new studies and promising information that I'd love to share with you guys but I don't have the time right now. I'll include a section on how you can take advantage of amphetamine's ability to increase healthy neurotrophic growth factors in the brain. I highly recommend that you guys hop on Google Scholar and start doing your own research. You'll learn lots of fascinating stuff and there's just too much for me to include on these forums. Amphetamine has a lot of hidden potential that hasn't moved past medical literature yet.
I really appreciate your posts but really fuck everything about this culture of anti-depressants, mood enhancers, and other drugs that 'help' us be more 'productive'. When i went to my shrink and he told me i needed to go on anti-depressants because i had a chemical imbalance and was different from everyone else i told him that was great news because i didn't want to be like all the other mindless drones living in the middle. You don't need drugs to help you get through work - what you need is a new fucking job that is challenging and interesting so that you won't need to take shit to escape from the fact that you're doing mindless boring ass shit. Your mind is correct in saying this to you but others would have you believe there must be something wrong with you.
I am sure there are tons of positive research reports but i for one am very skeptical of them. For fucks sake i still can't get a shrink to explain to me how anti-depressants work other than that they do... We are so far from understand the brain it's not even funny. But as long as it is making some people money and others slaves who the fuck cares right? It reminds me of the health care industry and how most doctors these days don't take a basic food course but instead are told to push costly drugs that treat symptoms. Sadly 90% or more of today's health ailments are from our own doing and can be corrected or prevented by eating the right foods.. but i digress... keep popping those statins sheep.
Sorry but so many young americans have become slaves to the system of production at all costs that they don't even realize they've been fucking brain washed... This reminds of me of how china used to give all its people access to opium so that they would be in such a happy stupor they wouldn't realize how badly they were being exploited.
Sad sad sad.
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I'd love to see a similar guide for MDMA - I wonder if "pre-dosing" would work just as well?
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i don't think it would because serotonin replenishes much slower than dopamine?
also a total effective guide to meth and amp use would be awesome, ive done a little research but everytime i do i just see how much deeper you can get into all the science behind it and i get lost sometimes, on nights out i just eat regularly and have multivitamin shakes with all nutrition in it and also omega 3 fish oil and magnesium oxide from what i can tell on this german packaging.. haha but knowing more things about half life etc and redosing would be good!
im a 73kg male would usually do a point or two on a night out from 9pm-8/9am depending when the club closed ;) then just did ghb for the comedown (ghb is a miracle drug for any comedown)
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i don't think it would because serotonin replenishes much slower than dopamine?
also a total effective guide to meth and amp use would be awesome, ive done a little research but everytime i do i just see how much deeper you can get into all the science behind it and i get lost sometimes, on nights out i just eat regularly and have multivitamin shakes with all nutrition in it and also omega 3 fish oil and magnesium oxide from what i can tell on this german packaging.. haha but knowing more things about half life etc and redosing would be good!
im a 73kg male would usually do a point or two on a night out from 9pm-8/9am depending when the club closed ;) then just did ghb for the comedown (ghb is a miracle drug for any comedown)
Haha I know exactly what you mean. Once you read enough, you know so many different ways to reduce neurotoxicity that it kind of makes you obsessive. I have to keep reminding myself that I don't need to go so far. Alright guys, I'm gonna teach you various tips on how to efficiently use amphetamines to increase your productivity. Again, I learned this information from science journals but I can't be bothered to research and cite them all again. No medical professionals would tell you this stuff because they don't trust you to be responsible with your usage.
1. Make "being productive", whatever that means to you, a habit. Under the influence of amphetamines, any activity you perform becomes more rewarding. Your brain literally develops addiction at a quicker rate. Thus, I suggest not doing anything you don't want to make a habit. For example, don't dose and then masturbate for several hours. DO take amphetamine and go out with your friends and bang random strangers. If you have social anxiety and amphetamine relieves it, you can dose and go out and get over your social anxiety more quickly. If you take amphetamine and exercise, you will become addicted to exercise. The key thing here is that you HAVE to do it while sober too. Otherwise, these habits become "state-dependent" and you'll only be social or a exercise addict while under the influence of amphetamines. Thus, dependence to amphetamines would form. However, if you supplement amphetamines at regular intervals, its amazing what you can become good at. If I had to come up with a completely anecdotal ratio, I would say 1 day of studying on amphetamine is equal to 4 days of studying while sober for me. It's just so funny how many things I know simply by devouring books while tweaked. As a side note, do not take amphetamines when depressed. I haven't seen it in a study or anything, but I am convinced that taking amphetamine while depressed will mentally condition yourself to be a more depressed person. Seriously. On one study, scientists dosed rats with a constant source of stress (noise) and they experienced higher levels of neurotoxicity and took longer to return to baseline levels. On a corollary, DO take it when you are happy.
2. Make a list of things you need to do before you dose. Every 30 minutes, mentally ask yourself if what you are doing right now is achieving anything. A lot of you guys probably have firsthand experience on dosing and then endlessly post on forums and obsessively reading every thread. This is great for days where you can chill and relax. NOT great for days where you need to get shit done. This is easily fixed by simply making a list of things you need to do. While sober, we all know how satisfying finishing a good day's of work and then chilling out on the couch is. On amphetamine? Ohh, FEELSGOODMAN. :)
3. Before dosing, ask yourself if what you plan on doing that day will "earn" the money back that you spent. For example, it costs me about $2 for a day's dose. If I spend a couple hours doing intense work, I easily earn that money back and more. If I go out with my friends, I easily receive $2's worth of entertainment (from increased sociability and enjoyment I get). Familiarize yourself with net gain and ensure that your drug use ALWAYS gives you a positive net gain. You have to factor in future consequences and minimalize them by being responsible with your use. It sounds stupid, but it helps prevent yourself from abusing the drug. If you were using $20's worth of amphetamine, it would be harder to earn that much back. Nowadays, if I dose and do nothing all day I physically feel guilty. I have mentally conditioned myself into being productive. Good stuff.
4. Exercise, bro. Trust me on this one. Exercise in chronic high dosed rats almost completely attenuated all neurotoxicity. The difference between a rat that exercises and a rat that doesn't in almost every test is significantly huge. ADD kids that exercised concurrently with their medication had much higher success rates. Not only that, but exercise alone improved performance scores in nearly all mental tests as well. Everybody knows how amphetamine causes insomnia right? Well, only 25% of patients actually report that symptom to their doctor. Meanwhile, exercise increases life satisfaction, self-confidence and motivation in OVER 85% of patients. If you do a lot of reading on pharmaceuticals, you would know how astronomically huge 85% is. In comparison, a typical drug for mental symptoms has an expected 20-30% success rate in patients. If exercise could come in a pill, the world would be a magical place. Exercise and amphetamines go hand in hand when done responsibly. For those worried about cardiac problems - adderall cardiac symptoms present themselves at the same rate as the normal population. Stories of heart failure is either from genetics or chronic abuse 99% of the time.
5. Studies have shown that amphetamines DO NOT increase your intelligence at all. Period. It only increases your attention and confidence which indirectly improves your short term memory, recall, and athletic performance. What am I trying to get at here? Everything you achieve on amphetamine is possible while you are sober as well. Remember that. If you are ever sober and get into the mindset "Man, I don't want to/can't do this without amphetamine", tell yourself to shut the fuck up. This is the first sign of dependence and a few weeks break would do you good. Take amphetamines when you want to perform BETTER, not because you cannot do something without them. A psychedelics user knows about "set and setting" very well and the same applies to a certain degree with amphetamines.
I'll be back with more.
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I am really loving this. Please continue and do not feel like you are rambling, im really liking the in depth details.
THANKS!!
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This is literally....hands down the best information i could have possibly hoped for...
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I feel like this should be stickied. A lot of good information on dextroamphetamine is in this thread as well.
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Holy shit dude this stuff is great!
+ Rep and I will be Pming you asap :)
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Epic guide, makes me want to pick up some amp
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I read last night that 'l-phenylalanine' is also effective for restoring your brains levels or something. Can't remember where it was though, but can anyone confirm this?. Also where do you get niacin pills from, are they prescription only?
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Very nice info, this should definitely get stickied.
+Rep bro
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Awesome. awesome. awesome
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no more to contribute/educate us with?
bump
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Someone mentioned phenylalanine. Phenylalanine, an amino acid, is one of the precursors the body uses for dopamine and norepinephrine production in the brain. Most people have of course heard of dopamine (DA), the bodies so called "feel good" chemical, or neurotransmitter. NE, norepinephrine, or noradrenaline is another of the brains neurotransmitters. The brain uses it for many processes. Learning, memory, attention, focus etc. Tyrosine, another amino acid, is also a good precursor for the body's production of DA and NE. Tyrosine is actually a more direct precursor IIRC, because phenylalanine has to be broken down into something else to be used to make DA and NE. I can't remember the exact process.....IE what phenylalanine is converted to, but I'm sure the info is on the "net. You can by tyrosine capsulesl at any health food store. I often take then after I've been doing coke. Tyrosine just by itself has a mild stimulatory effect. People used to taking hundred of mgs of amphet, might not notice it, but many people can. I find it gives me more of a lift than a cup of coffee if I take 500 to 1000mg. Tyrosine, phenylalanine and tryptophan are all amino acids. Thus they are found in protein containing foods as proteins are made up of about a dozen different amino acids that all do different things in the body. So you get these amino acids in your diet, but taking them in capsule form will have a stronger effect than just getting them in your diet.
5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) is a serotonin precursor as is tryptophan. 5-HTP is a more direct precursor thoughand IIRC is not an amino acid in itself, but is closely related. It's actually found in an African plant. If you're coming down and want to aid recovery of neurotransmittters, you are trying to take a break, or kick altogether, you might try 500mg to 1000mg of tyrosine in the morning and 25mg to 50mg of 5-HTP before bedtime. Careful of coffee and tyrosine together until you know how the tyrosine affects you. 5-HTP often has a very mild sedative effect, so it may help you sleep. Although it's not strong enough to help you sleep if you're high. These are recovery supplements not drugs. ;) For myself, I find that after taking 5-HTP every night for about a week, it starts to have a sort of uplifting effect during the day, so I no longer need the tyrosine. I'm quite sensitive to 5-HTP though, so this might vary from person to person. For *mild* depression I find 5-HTP works much faster than SSRI's. I start feeling some relief in a week. After a long speed binge, that may not be the case though. I'd say you're definitely better off taking these supplements though, rather than not taking them at all. May as well give your brain as much assistance as you can. I should point out, I have much more experience with coke than speed, as I haven't done speed for a number of years and then only about ten times in my life. Still, some of the same neurotransmitters are affected, so if these supplements help recovery from cocaine use they should help with speed use too. Great for mild to moderate depression too. Some people prefer them to SSRI's, SNRI. I've heard of people not responding to SSRI's getting relief from tyrosine and 5-HTP. For others with severe depression those two amino acids may not be strong enough. I hope this helps. :)
As for what I understand about d-amphetamine and l-amphetamine, amphetamine is what is referred to as a "racemic mixture" or an "optical isomer". Meaning, in laymans terms, the molecule has a mirrored versions of itself. The L version levo-amphetamine or (levorotary) and the D version, dextro-amphetamine. (dextrorotary) From what I've read, with amphetamine, the D isomer has stronger affects on the DA neurotransmitter and less on the NE receptors. Thus it has stronger euphoric properties while levo amphetamine is responsible for more of the peripheral effects because it works more on the NE receptors and less on the DA receptors. That's the simple version. So the old benzedrine tablets, or the modern adderall tabs, contain both L and D amphetamine, but more D than L IIRC. I've read that the two together last a little longer than D by itself. I don't know if that's true, or not. I've done dexedrine, but never adderall.
Methamphetamine is also a racemic drug containing D and L isomers, BUT with methamphetamine, unlike regular amphetamine, the L isomer is totally inactive. It's the D isomer that causes all the effects. The best, most pure meth should be all dextro-methamphetamine as I understand it. Does this mean if you get poorer quality speed that is the racemic mixture, some of the weight is going to be totally inactive L isomer? That's how I understand it
Just a quick ps here. Tyrosine, (4-hydroxyphenylalanine) isn't that far removed molecularly from amphetamine itself IIRC. I could swear I read somewhere that it could probably even be used in amphet synthesis. Maybe someone with a good chem background could address whether that's fact or fiction as I don't know
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thanks dillydod for reviving this thread with some new information. I used l-tyrosine to help me kick opiate addiction. I also used to take it after a coke/speed or meth binge but these days i tried to avoid supplements or vitamins that I can get just by eating a healthy diet. i also suggest that people take a low dose of 5-http when trying it for the first time because i've had friends that have gotten bad side effects from it.
in addition to all these ways to help you recover that are listed in this thread i recommend that you eat a ton of fruits/vegetables, foods without too much sodium and salt, nuts, and try to eat a piece of lean protein at least twice a day during your recovery. i also found that drinking a cup of pure cranberry juice will help flush the toxins out of your system quicker and help your overworked kidneys. it's important that it be pure juice so the only ingredient on the back should be cranberry's. it's expensive and tough to find but works. drinking the stuff they pass for cranberry in the super markets does more harm than good so if you can't find the pure stuff don't settle for anything else.
lastly if you want to have a long career using drugs and want to recover a lot quicker it's important to do regular excersize. regardless of how you feel after a binge ...try to get out the next day and do some physical activity. i've been using hard drugs for almost two decades now and have tried every supplement/vitamin, etc... but have found that eating well and being in shape help with a recovery more than anything else.
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I am a heavy drug user and can't remember the last time I wasn't high on something. Anyways meth is extremely popular in my area. It has been part of my life for the last 15 years. First comparing methamphetamines to amphetamines is like comparing vodka to beer. Crystal will kick the shit out of any form of amphetamines either off the streets or prescription. Also don't underestimate the power of psychological addiction. I am not trying to call you out but I can only assume that you are not familiar with psychological addiction first hand? To put it nicely comparing meth addiction to surfing the internet is fucking retarded. Having had a serious drinking problem in the past I know that one drink will lead to 30. Physically its easy to say just don't have another drink but psychologically it is nearly impossible for me. I am a heavy tobacco user and of course its easy to say just quit smoking. Much easier said than done. Ever taken a hit of crack? Ive never seen the guy who can just take a couple hits of rock and then walk away. Meth like many drugs is comparable to the Pringles ad stating once you pop you cant stop except the desire to redose on meth trumps Pringles many many times over. When smoking meth your body will have a massive urge to re dose. Also the 70mg or whatever dose for someone new to the drug would have most people spun. You may feel as if you're productive but will find that you have wasted hours doing nothing. There is real time and then there is meth time. Hours can seem like minutes while on meth. If someone is curious about the drug you will just have to try it. I personally take it orally and that decreases the desire to re dose. With quality meth oral doses of 5mg can be effective to most people new to the drug. If you are 160lbs and are taking 70mg and consider that to be a functional dose your either getting garbage or have a tolerance.
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I have to admit that I skimmed through most of your post but 72mg for someone weighing 160lbs would be equal to me taking 100mg at 99% bio availability aka shooting up or roughly a 130mg line snorted. That is not considered a functional dose. Also you mention 5hrs sleep to avoid psychosis. If I gave someone new a 130mg line of decent shit I assure you they won't be sleeping that night. I have been up 3-4 days since I last smoked, snorted or ate anything. Saying get 5hrs of sleep a night is a lot easier said than done. I have seen a lot of things and done most of them. It's one thing to read something on the Internet and a whole other living it first hand.
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Thanks for the really interesting topic. As someone else mentioned, it would be great if you could share your knowledge for other substances. Would love to know the relative risks of psychosis for MDMA, LSD and the NBOMe's.
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thank you for this informative post.
i will be using meth for the first time.
i have a feeling it will be a good appetite suppresant, and this would work out greatly to my advantage if i dosed once a day.
i exercise five days a week
will start low, but i already know my ROA will be smoking/intranasal.
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Another problem with your post again is the sleep thing. Say I followed your guidelines and being around 220lbs a recreational dose would be around 130mg snorted and a productive dose would be around 65mg. Being someone with above average experience with meth I can tell you that either of those doses are going to create a big problem for a beginner. Even with the "productive" dose the end user will not be sleeping that night. Say at 8am they take 60-70mg their day will speed by quickly and next thing they know it will be midnight and still not tired, then 2am... 4am... 6am etc. They will go the whole night without sleep and in many cases have no choice but to take more to make it through the following day. I have been there way to many times. I will take a small amount one day and be forced to continue the cycle of no sleep in able to make it through the week. Meth is not one of those drugs that you can take that morning and then be gone by that afternoon. If you are curious about meth as a functional drug start in very small doses and slowly up them until you reach the desired affect. I would start day one with 5mg and continue to add 5mg untill you reach the desired dose. Most people new to meth and amphetamines will find 5-10mg a very functional beginner dose. Also I can not over state how important the method of use is. If you want it to be functional and dont want to become a addict you best bet is to parachute it aka eat the shit.
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Another problem with your post again is the sleep thing. Say I followed your guidelines and being around 220lbs a recreational dose would be around 130mg snorted and a productive dose would be around 65mg. Being someone with above average experience with meth I can tell you that either of those doses are going to create a big problem for a beginner. Even with the "productive" dose the end user will not be sleeping that night. Say at 8am they take 60-70mg their day will speed by quickly and next thing they know it will be midnight and still not tired, then 2am... 4am... 6am etc. They will go the whole night without sleep and in many cases have no choice but to take more to make it through the following day. I have been there way to many times. I will take a small amount one day and be forced to continue the cycle of no sleep in able to make it through the week. Meth is not one of those drugs that you can take that morning and then be gone by that afternoon. If you are curious about meth as a functional drug start in very small doses and slowly up them until you reach the desired affect. I would start day one with 5mg and continue to add 5mg untill you reach the desired dose. Most people new to meth and amphetamines will find 5-10mg a very functional beginner dose. Also I can not over state how important the method of use is. If you want it to be functional and dont want to become a addict you best bet is to parachute it aka eat the shit.
woah wth, no way...
i don't have any benzos on hand. i plan on doing meth right when i wake up in doses of <15mg . smoked/intranasal.
first time user here. haven't had any amp's in over a year.
180 lbs, and athletic fit.
are you saying that i have the possibility of not being able to go to sleep?
i think with good meth, i would find the euphoria nice at this dose right?
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you deserve a bloody medal!
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Such a good thread. Everyone should plus karma this guy. I wish I would of had this information a long time ago. It may of saved me from permanent damage.
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It's a shame that Candorean hasn't been seen in a while, but this sticky is great information!
I'd argue that there's a need for informational posts like this for most of the drugs on SR. The availability of such a wide variety of drugs encourages experimentation, and it would be great to offer harm-reduction suggestions for people that just want to dip their toes into a substance, but don't want to make themselves retarded or dead because of it. I know that the information is already out there for anyone that wants it, but it would help the community greatly if it were all gathered in one place.
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excellent post great material and is definitely informative and food for thought!
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Spot on write-up!
Want to add +1000 on exercise. Do not underestimate the benefits of physical activity (think 30+ min of sweating/heavy breathing per day, not a slow walk through grocery store) on recovery, brain health, good feelings, and mental well being. Fucking wonder drug in effectiveness. Seriously get off your ass. This has nothing to do with what shape you are in, even if you look fit, you need 30+ min of hard physical activity.
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GREAT thread man! We need more well cited articles like this, now a days there are so many rumors about drugs, and a lot of these rumors are actually very detailed and scientific but they are still false, usually they are started when someone misinterprets a study or two.
As far as anti-oxidants go, there are some important things I should add.
1) Vitamin C does not cross the blood brain barrier in its reduced form: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC508490/
This means that once the vitamin C is in your brain, it is no longer an anti-oxidant. You want the anti-oxidants primarity for the oxidants in your brain after meth use.
2) Vitamin E can cross the BBB, but only the alpha isomer of vitamin E.
I recommend curcumin, in the form of CuraPro (its on amazon). Curcumin is a VERY powerful anti-oxidant that crosses the blood-brain barrier easily. Unfortunately, it is not well absorbed in humans so you need to buy the CuraPro brand (or any brand containing BCM-95 curcumin, CuraPro is the best bang for your buck) which is a special micronized form of curcumin mixed with turmeric essential oils that is much better absorbed. I take 2 of them every day (with breakfast and before I go to bed).
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Nice work , very well composed and reinforced with links to source material- thank you for taking the time to write a proper piece.
I wanted to elaborate a little on some things you've mentioned-but dont take my counter points as being like Im trying to shit on your work- Again I think you wrote a solid post - Also, it's smart idea to gather info on any medicines you might take legal or otherwise.
Most all medical studies and their "facts" on methamphetamine are often skewed by biases, misconceptions, and deceptions of the researchers who proceeded them. Meth has been aggressively campaigned against, and is associated with some of the most infamous individuals and organizations like : The Hells Angels, The Nazi Party, ect... Slogans like "Speed Kills" been around since the 1950s but modern campaigns now are trying to portray the drug as a white-trailer-trash recreation to discourage others from experimenting with the drug. Some of the bad reputation meth has is deserved, but alot of people like to blame Meth for the troubles of their own poor judgements, ignorance, and lack of moral substance. Be very skeptical about any facts on the subject.
Meth may be only psychological addictive - but the mind is very much a part of the physical body, and there definitely are withdraw symptoms if you take it routinely, so dont underestimate the addictive nature of any drug.
As for the neurotoxicity / tolerance portion,Meth is very similar to a great deal of chemicals produced by the body and brain and the tolerance is linked more to those receptors it overloads /locks into. Its your own brain getting you high when you do meth, meth is like the key that opens the door to the feel good chemical response- but these chems take time for the brain to produce and replenish. So in fact you're right about re-upping in larger doses- since meth doesnt actually get you high (ONLY TRIGGERS IT ) you arent going to get higher by increasing the dosage. Its good to be a lightweight.
Amphetamine Psychosis is mainly caused by the deprivation of sleep upon the brain, even if you just lay down and rest your body for a couple hours it willl make a big difference in being stable mentally and try to eat a little blood sugar lvls n such help to keep the brain operating well.
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I would disagree that meth is just psychologically addictive - the down regulation of the dopamine and serotonin receptors along with the desensitization to the chemical through neural changes basically defines (simplifying everything) physical dependence. Due to these biochemical alterations, the user will experience tolerance, along with a period of withdrawal because of the "physical" addiction. you even claim there is tolerance and dependence yet still say its only psychological???
And you seem to be suggesting meth just catalyzes a natural process that is similar to the common action of the monoamines? i dont know what you mean by it "triggers" but "doesnt actually get you high"? It is directly the action of meth on the vesicular transporters that produces the efflux of monoamines to extremely high and unnatural levels. you make it seem like just because it isnt targeting a post-synaptic receptor its not the meth that is causing it? This is how many drugs function though (like cocaine inhibiting DAT) along with multiple other pharmacological mechanisms... i feel you are saying meths action is similar to a normal, natural neural activity which i completely disagree with.
There is no neurochem that i am familiar with (please share if you know) that actually reverses the action of the monoamine transporters... this causes MASSIVE efflux of monoamines and produces synaptic levels that are no where near normal (its not your own brain getting you high, it is the meth causing it directly), for example with dopamine levels are up to 1200 times higher than normal... which depletes the vesicular stores and causes neurotoxicity. its not like meth is just triggering a natural process to get you high. the more meth you take, the more VMATs are altered and so up to a point taking more will definitely increase the effects - but eventually the receptors will be completely filled (just like with lsd, you only have so many receptors and can fill them all)
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I would disagree that meth is just psychologically addictive - the down regulation of the dopamine and serotonin receptors along with the desensitization to the chemical through neural changes basically defines (simplifying everything) physical dependence. Due to these biochemical alterations, the user will experience tolerance, along with a period of withdrawal because of the "physical" addiction. you even claim there is tolerance and dependence yet still say its only psychological???
No, it really doesn't. Biochemical alterations happen due to any stimulation. Reading this post will cause a biochemical alteration. The information you glean from it will make you a (very)slightly different person to who you were before you read it. Physical addiction is defined as (paraphrasing) the body adapting to continual ingestion of a drug, to the point where it changes the receptors that are activated by said drug so that normal neurological function is impaired if you were to stop taking it.
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/12/7/2439.full.pdf
Please don't take this as a personal attack however, I completely agree with the rest of your post.
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As someone who uses amphetamines on a daily basis, I've found it very helpful to take a magnesium pill every night, and drink a "berocca" or similar bi-carb soda containing drink about an hour before dosing.
Another effective strategy to potentiate amp's is to re-structure your diet in order to increase the PH of your blood. Amphetamines are washed through the kidneys much more efficiently if your blood has a lower PH. Increasing the PH level will result in a better "second pass."
cheers.
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No, it really doesn't. Biochemical alterations happen due to any stimulation. Reading this post will cause a biochemical alteration. The information you glean from it will make you a (very)slightly different person to who you were before you read it. Physical addiction is defined as (paraphrasing) the body adapting to continual ingestion of a drug, to the point where it changes the receptors that are activated by said drug so that normal neurological function is impaired if you were to stop taking it.
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/12/7/2439.full.pdf
Please don't take this as a personal attack however, I completely agree with the rest of your post.
You can disagree with me, I welcome another perspective or interpretation and disagreement, as long as it is done respectfully and not insulting the person you dont agree with... that being said I dont agree with you :) and I believe you are incorrect - could you please define what you believe physical addiction/dependence means then and why meth does not cause it?
I know learning and memory (of me reading your post) is caused by physical changes and alterations to the neurons structure and receptors, but they are different than those I was referring to. Even the psychological aspect of addiction is fairly physical, in that the same "learning" to desire and seek out the drug is caused by similar physical changes just in the striatum largely along with the hippocampus. However - those that characterize physical dependence that i was referring to like i said in my first post are the down regulation of the post synaptic dopamine and serotonin receptors, depletion of presynaptic monoamine stores, and upregulation of intracellular mechanism to dampen the receptor over-activation (such as increased PKA and PKC activation).
these changes cause a physical dependence (my interpretation of the term physical addiction is when you develop this dependence) that causes tolerance which reduces the effects from the same dose, and therefor necessitates a higher and higher dose to maintain the same high. also, as the person increases the dose due to tolerance, the changes i mentioned increase more and more. Eventually the changes have become great enough if a person uses regularly that when the system stops receiving the drug they no longer have enough strength of the natural process to produce the needed neuronal activation which results in a period of withdrawal.
meth withdrawal, although no where near as severe as w/d from many CNS depressants, can still be significant and produce anhedonia, anxiety and depression, sleep disturbances, impulsivity, attention deficits, lethargy, appetite changes, decreased cardiovascular stimulation and respiration from the reduced adrenergic activation, etc. - although many users do not develop severe enough dependence to experience much beyond a mild "crash" because the main areas affected do not cause as intense rebound sympathetic stimulation, but instead depression which is much more tolerable and not as dangerous
i guess there is some disagreement whether this is actually physiological dependence - but i dont understand why it would not be considered to be physical and only purely psychological , just because the dependence is not as severe as the dependence caused by other drugs and it takes longer to build the tolerance? so i see your point some will disagree its not physical but because of the tolerance and physical changes causing the withdrawal or "crash" I disagree. which is why i would appreciate you to explain your perspective and belief it is only psychological...
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/206581-Amphetamine-Meth-withdrawals
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/288050-help-with-methamphetamine-withdrawl
http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/meth.asp
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-addiction/201007/physical-addiction-or-psychological-addiction-is-there-real-differen
http://www.sandiegotherapistcounselor.com/physical-vs-psychological-addictions-the-signs-of-an-addiction-problem.html
http://wiki.bluelight.ru/index.php/Methamphetamine
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You have a pretty good point there. But I think the crux of the debate is not the properties of the drug itself, rather, the definition of "physical dependance" as opposed to "psychological dependance."
It seems that there is far too much grey area involved. Methamphetamine is a drug which has characteristics of both types of dependancies, so the question becomes: Does one supercede the other? How do we weight the characteristics of a drug to fit it into the catagory of physical/psychological dependance?
I'll admit that I'm still somewhat unused to discussion with rational minded people. Most, if not all forums I frequent on clearnet are filled with opinionated slobs. Unfortunately the forums are still useful to me so I end up copping it and moving along. Thanks for restoring my faith in humanity :P
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the two are not mutually exclusive, as demonstrated by opiates
that is actually why i included a few links about the definition of physical dependence - basically they confirm that given the evidence i provided meth is considered to be physically addictive, at least slightly although not as much as depressants
wheres MGM at - he was the one i was really looking to have a discussion with given i was initially responding to his claims i disagreed with
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Ahh thanks for clearing that up.
I'm a statistical analyst(vague definition) by trade so this is only based on research for reasons for personal interest. As such, I readily admit that my understanding of it is flawed in some ways.
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I just want to ask the OP if there are any permanent damages from heavy binging of stimulants? Specifically 4-methylethylcathinone, but from what I understand you studied amphetamines and might feel uncomfortable speculating differences or similarities of that to what I used to take, a cathinone. Either way, I assume you know one or two things about serotonin and dopamine, and hence my question:
Is heavy dopamine and serotonin release in the brain, over and over again, going to damage the brain permanently?
I was engaged in a heavy binge on 4-MEC for one or two months, I would take at least a gram a day, and some days I would refill my nose and keep taking it orally even though I didn't get any higher. The way I abused that drug is almost unrealistic, since I had almost an unlimited supply (250g) for me to take alone. I would be surprised if I didn't have some sort of permanent damage. The only time I went to a hospital though was when I did a blood checkup, and the results they gave me showed that after my heavy binging period I did have some liver damage, but that it was actually going to heal just fine, I was glad to hear that.
Still though, 4-MEC, like Mephedrone, is a drug that releases both serotonin and dopamine at the same time. I've heard that, that combination is dangerous to your brain, and I don't doubt it. I don't doubt it because I experienced some brain damage symptoms in rehab (I went to rehab after my binging went too far), for example, when I would try to recall a memory or something that happened in the past, sometimes I would experience a brainshock, kind of feels like an electrical shock in my brain, and I would completely forget what it was I was thinking about. My theory is that the drug had actually burnt out these memories and as my brain was attempting to recall them at that location they were stored, the memory was nowhere to be found. A good thing to remember is that 4-MEC is, I think, acidic, or I'm not sure if it's acidic but it does burn through tissue slightly. I often had nose bleeds and pains in my nostrils, and even pain in my stomach after having taken it orally too often.
I would also feel an electrical shock and a brief loss of balance/consciousness (0.1 seconds at most), whenever I would drink a glass of water. I really don't know why it was, but it mostly seemed to happen when I was about to drink a liquid, that I would get a shock in my brain.
I hope someone can clear me up on this, I just want to know if I might have some permanent brain damage or if the brain is just like any other organ and can heal and replenish itself fully.
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Is heavy dopamine and serotonin release in the brain, over and over again, going to damage the brain permanently?
I think that question answers itself really. Exhausting your brains hormones, and not giving sufficient time to replenish serotonin and dopamine will surely damage receptors (excessive firing?) and consistent abnormal levels of such hormones will no doubt induce severe neurotoxicity, especially if you are binging for a month or more...I am in no way versed in this subject, I've done small amounts of research on mdma neurotoxicity as that is my drug of choice, however I think the same applies in some way. I have a feeling Micron will answer your question with ease.
In relation to your brain zaps, a friend of mine who came back from overseas completely abused mdma on his travels, re-dosing to extremely high dosages and repeatedly for about a month. He would get similar zaps that you describe. When sleeping he complained that he would get a 'wooshing' sound in his ear and suddenly wake up in a panic (hypnic jerk from what I've read - but a severe form). This no doubt, is a result of his excessive mdma use, though as I said, I am not educated in this field, and I am simply speculating.
Thanks for your response, I've been worried that I might have gotten dumber since what happened to me, haha! What if I'm really stupid and I don't know it myself, lol! Nah, I don't think so, while I am a little worried that I've had permanent damage to my brain, I'm going to assume that the brain is healing itself. I don't see why the brain wouldn't, I've heard people getting shot in the head, and after a period of coma the brain repairs itself and manages to function relatively well (almost as good as new), regardless. I believe the human body to be a wonderful machine, capable of fighting off so many diseases and repair so much damage. I think a few months of binging like I did is nothing to my brain, well, I hope. I heard about that neurotoxicity thing, though.
One thing I learnt for sure, though, was fuck binging. And to have respect for drugs, stimulants or otherwise. I've always had a deep respect and fear for opiates, and taken them very cautiously. I did not do this with amphetamines or stimulants in general though, and I payed the price. 4-MEC is addictive, far more so than I had originally thought, although psychologically addictive and not physically. Just like weed is. I easily get hooked on weed too so I try to keep it cool with that. I try to keep it cool with all drugs nowadays, heck, the main reason I'm still doing this thing is cause I don't know how to get a normal job. All I really ever known was dealing drugs, and I know that sounds cliché, but I've really given up hope of ever getting a normal job soon. I'm not even sure if I want to, I hate sucking up to someone or having a boss order me around, and being forced to work annoying hours doing something I have no interest in whatsoever, earning a meager hourly wage. Shit, when I was selling that 4-MEC, I was making around $16 on every gram I sold at a price of $23-25, and all I had to do was meet some sucker that took 20 minutes max, and I would sometimes be selling 5-10 grams at a single meet. I hate the violent part of the drug game, though, I was robbed once and beaten up, held hostage and extorted, but fuck, I'm alright now and if I gave up that easily I would be missing out on $. What doesn't kill me only makes me stronger and wiser.
For example, I learnt the logical lesson that if I ever was to be in possession of 250 grams of any substance again, it might be wiser to consider selling it wholesale instead of breaking it up into grams. Fuck, the less people you meet the longer you stay in the game. I was too fucking stupid to realize that the first time around.
I want to extend my gratitude to the SR community, all it's vendors and buyers, and DPR, for creating this thing. It's fucking beautiful. And I might make some bank thanks to it. I fucking love you guys. I live in a remote town in europe, close to the arctic circle, where if I manage to import some stuff I'll be one of the few dudes with weed, and people over here are killing for good weed and ecstacy.
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Anyone have any idea the Adderall-Meth ratio I should take. What form has the highest bioavailibilty? I'm really wanting to relive the days of euphoric 10 hour AvengedSevenfold/Adderall fueled homework sessions, but considering 45 mgs of Adderall had me shaking and tingling, I'd like to be careful.
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1. Make "being productive", whatever that means to you, a habit. Under the influence of amphetamines, any activity you perform becomes more rewarding. Your brain literally develops addiction at a quicker rate. Thus, I suggest not doing anything you don't want to make a habit. For example, don't dose and then masturbate for several hours.
... um, oops?
DO take amphetamine and go out with your friends and bang random strangers. If you have social anxiety and amphetamine relieves it, you can dose and go out and get over your social anxiety more quickly. If you take amphetamine and exercise, you will become addicted to exercise. The key thing here is that you HAVE to do it while sober too. Otherwise, these habits become "state-dependent" and you'll only be social or a exercise addict while under the influence of amphetamines. Thus, dependence to amphetamines would form.
Yes, this explains why my past 10 years have been a constant cycle of either "tweaked, twitching, and functioning," or in bed being very pissed off at society for saying I'm not allowed to go buy amphetamines at the corner market. Regrettably, I am not me if I'm not tweaked. I don't feel like me, the people who know me say I'm not like me, and I get nothing done whatsoever. Everything I love and find of worth is a hassle, a pain, or a chore. It's a shame I didn't read your posts 10 years ago. I mean really, it is. Perhaps I would have been slightly more productive or slightly more happy these past years. Or at least have had the option of making an informed choice. It's a wonderful thing you've tried to do with these posts. I thank you for the sentiment and effort. Frankly, all the talk of dosages and the fact that I take 10x or more what you "prescribe" led me to think you were asking the amphetamine molecule for something different than I am, or just didn't know what you were talking about and stopped reading and wrote off the post. Got bumped today, and read some other parts of it. I was 3/4 wrong. It's true, we should all read this stuff.
I now have the same conclusion as ever: I think I'm straight up fucked. But I started thinking that about 8 years ago when I realized basically nothing would make me decide I was going to stop using, and the best moments in life are had while spun. Ah well; we all die someday. In the end, does it really matter what path we took to get there -- just so long as we got some fun and love out of it, it's all good :)
I think I'll link to this in the meth review thread (which may be the 10th time somebody has, but hey, stuff gets lost in 300 pages). Just to save some poor soul who misjudged the value of the content the way I did.
Anyone have any idea the Adderall-Meth ratio I should take. What form has the highest bioavailibilty? I'm really wanting to relive the days of euphoric 10 hour AvengedSevenfold/Adderall fueled homework sessions, but considering 45 mgs of Adderall had me shaking and tingling, I'd like to be careful.
There isn't a cross tolerance. At least not what I would have decided should be called "cross tolerance." It's more like direct tolerance. Not saying your tolerance will develop twice as quickly if you take both, but it will definitely develop for both just as quickly as if you were taking all of one or all of the other. Basically, total the adderall + meth to know how much you have taken or want to take. Don't say this much of one and this much of the other. It's psychologically misleading. I have no advice beyond that. If adderall reacts that poorly with you (and it was actual pharmacy-sold adderall), try using it in small amounts to bump up the meth. Or vice versa. Or just stick ot adderall if you can afford it. Easier to get stuff done than on meth, at least for me.
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Anyone have any idea the Adderall-Meth ratio I should take. What form has the highest bioavailibilty? I'm really wanting to relive the days of euphoric 10 hour AvengedSevenfold/Adderall fueled homework sessions, but considering 45 mgs of Adderall had me shaking and tingling, I'd like to be careful.
There isn't a cross tolerance. At least not what I would have decided should be called "cross tolerance." It's more like direct tolerance. Not saying your tolerance will develop twice as quickly if you take both, but it will definitely develop for both just as quickly as if you were taking all of one or all of the other. Basically, total the adderall + meth to know how much you have taken or want to take. Don't say this much of one and this much of the other. It's psychologically misleading. I have no advice beyond that. If adderall reacts that poorly with you (and it was actual pharmacy-sold adderall), try using it in small amounts to bump up the meth. Or vice versa. Or just stick ot adderall if you can afford it. Easier to get stuff done than on meth, at least for me.
Sorry for the poor wording. I was referring more to, "if i'm used to 30mg adderall, how much meth would be equivalent to that?"
and considering how similar the mechanisms of action and molecular structures are, I find it really hard to believe there isnt a cross tolerance.
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Sorry for the poor wording. I was referring more to, "if i'm used to 30mg adderall, how much meth would be equivalent to that?"
and considering how similar the mechanisms of action and molecular structures are, I find it really hard to believe there isnt a cross tolerance.
Oh, I think it is actually called cross tolerance. I just meant I find that term misleading. It's not like some of it carries over: most or all of it carries over is all I meant.
If you have a mg scale, the same amount of meth as you would take adderall. Swallow it. Anything else is too much of a peak and not sustained enough for really getting stuff done, IMO. Besides, if you have to stop what you're doing every 30-90 minutes just to vape some more shit, it really gets in the way, ya know.
My reasons for just measure them equal: a 30mg adderall has about 22.5mg biologically useable amphetamine salts. Illicit meth isn't pure. How much is it cut? I can't say, but DEA reports suggest it's 30-70% pure. I think some of the better vendors are definitely toward that top end there, maybe even better. So about equal useable amphetamines per mg.
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Can the pre-loading thing work for MDMA too? I know MDMA works mostly on serotonin but I have heard there is also dopamine action.
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So can someone binge so much that they laugh and talk to themselves? Is that psychosis? What if they continue to binge? Can this much abuse cause you to do something very horrible?
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Fantastic post. Great pure research. You've answered the issues that have kept me away from meth. Thank you very much! :)
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hey OP.. im a amphetamine user for my adhd
i did the thing where you dose lower the first time to prevent tolerance
anyways i was wondering the efficacy of methampetamine for ADHD compared to D-AMP
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This thread has explained so much!
Thank you so much for this information in good writing :)
Thanks also for the sources and + karma!
~~sitamaja
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Looks like a
little amphetamine species
may have been involved in that original write-up haha
I learned something I didn't know. Thanks.
"After pretreatment and sensitization, 1.0mg/kg WILL bring a satisfying rush. On a 160 pound person, that would be about 72mg. If it sounds too little to you, than you have gone too far."
hahahaha 65kg, several years on adderall xr 30mg... binged on 500mg the other week over 14hrs... I hardly know when it's weak meth or high tolerance... hahaha that shit was so neurotoxic... felt parkinsonian for the next two days... rubbing legs... rocking back and forth... no psychosis tho. The sex is worth it though.
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Before I do any drugs, I do a shitton of reading on it. I go through all the medical literature because I want to know what I'm getting into. I've found that Meth has the exact same safety profile as dextro. Just another demonized drug because of idiot users. Before you call it addictive let me explain what I've found from scientific journals:
1. First off, Methamphetamine is only psychologically addictive. Just like Cannabis, food, or the internet. Methamphetamine's addiction potential is equal to prescription dextroamphetamine (at similarly potent doses). If you are wondering why d-amph addicts are so much rarer, it's because d-amph is typically given out in prescription tablets only. People can still break it down and snort it, but the difference is that these prescriptions regulate their dosage every month and drastically lowers the chances of addiction. Just another reason why the drug war is such a failure really. European speed is so diluted and cut that I'd be surprised if you even got 10% dextro in your powder. No American dealer wants to sell dextroamph because it takes an extra step in synthesis and is less potent. If Europe had the availability to meth precursors like America did, absolutely NO dealer would be selling l- or d-amphetamine. Pharmaceutical companies have the incentive to use d- and l-amphetamine because meth carries such a stigma that patients won't want to take it. Big pharma has near free access to precursors and laboratories so making the slightly less potent d-amph costs almost nothing to them. It is saddening that people who are "pro-drugs except for meth" are tricked by the same misinformation that they hate so much when it's against cannabis. Hopefully by this point, you and I are on the same page and have moved past this "evil meth" label. Thus, I will refer to meth as amphetamine from now on.
Significant withdrawal effects only occur when amph is continuously redosed in high dosages. Why? Because constant redosing causes neurotoxicity. The long half life of all amphetamine means that redosing will additively increase blood plasma levels and your brain will soak in that. Acute tolerance shuts out euphoria around the time you reach your first half life. Redosing = excitotoxicity and accumulation of oxidative reactive species in the absense of most of the euphoria. Daily usage is only safe at therapeutic dosages (UNDER ~0.5mg/kg). It seems like it is generally agreed upon that meth is more potent weight by weight than dextro (about 1.3x). When the dosages are matched, they have the exact same safety profile.
Chronic use at anything above therapeutic level causes persisting DA striatal depletion. As in, it comes back VERY slowly (think years) and it isn't 100%. You can withdraw from Heroin and get away without lasting physical damage. The same cannot be said for amphetamines. The striatal depletions go unnoticed by binge users until they stop dosing whereupon shit gets real. Quickly. These are the only people that get severe withdrawal effects and feel extremely addicted. Just like every other drug, binging is bad. Before you call therapeutic dosages too pussylike, read the rest of my post.
2. Pre-treatment. Holy fuck I was glad to find out about this before I started using. Pre-treatment takes only one week and it permanently boosts all your subsequent amphetamine effects. It is called sensitization or reverse-tolerance. When taken at sub neurotoxic dosages, the brain becomes supersensitized to all subsequent amphetamine dosages. This effect has been tested to last longer than 120 days and is probably permanent. Animals were intially given a single small amphetamine dosage. In 120 days, they received their second dosage and the effects were dramatically boosted. Tests in human subjects show that the subjective high is nearly doubled from baseline. More research has shown that the optimal pre-treatment schedule is 0.15mg/kg daily for 7 days. The longer the withdrawal period after that, the stronger the effects (up to 30 days when it levels out). Also, did I mention that pre-treatment significantly reduces neurotoxicity in subsequent binges and high dosages? If your first few amphetamine uses were high dosage, you shocked your brain. You most likely had neurotoxic hyperthermia which diminishes sensitization.
Source of pretreatment on sensitization and reverse tolerance: http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/26144/1/0000221.pdf
Source of pretreatment on neurotoxicity: http://www.nature.com/?file=/npp/journal/v28/n10/abs/1300247a.html
Bonus source for one dosage causing lasting sensitization: http://www.neuro.cjb.net/content/19/21/9579.short
(please keep in mind these dosages in the article are for rats and NOT for humans)
3. Any tolerance to amphetamines that last longer than 5 days is caused by neurotoxicity. The main reason for amphetamine's tolerance is its half life and how quickly the body adjusts to the presence of amphetamine in the blood. After only 3 days (approximately 5 half lives, i.e. ~97% of the drug is gone), this tolerance should be almost completely gone. Any persisting tolerance after 5 days was caused by striatal DA depletions as well as downregulation of D2 receptors. Again, if your tolerance lasts more than 5 days, reconsider your amount and frequency of dosage. Repeated high dosages without adequate time in between will fuck up your shit. The rewarding effects of sensitization is also severely diminished by this binge use.
Source: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584602002579
(I've seen several other sources but this is one I found with a quick search)
4. If you enjoy higher dosages, you must spread them out. This goes back to my last point. Moderately high dosages can actually be safe given that you washout the drugs (about 5 half lives) before redosing.
5. If you are female, the effects of amphetamine neurotoxicity are two folds stronger and psychosis along with addiction potential occur at half the dosage for males. The presence of certain male androgens are neuroprotective against amphetamine. Sorry, women.
6. Smoking and IV have the same safety profile as other ROA's when dosages are matched for bioavailibility and may actually be safer because of their shorter half lives. Rats can take single 25mg/kg injections with no neurotoxicity because their amphetamine half life is only one hour compared to the human time of 9-12 hours. Amphetamines are one of the rare drugs where these ROAs are safer because amphetamine neurotoxicity is primarily exacerbated by the time it stays in the body. Unfortunately, binge use with smoking or IV causes half life to be irrelevant and the safety profile becomes much more dangerous.
7. If you binge, STAY out places that are hotter than room temperature! Heat literally multiplies the tolerance and deficits you are causing to your brain. And, you must have already caused a lot of deficits if you are dumb enough to be a binge user.
To sum it up, DON'T FUCKING BINGE!
8. If you have suffered psychosis from amphetamine, I would consider stopping usage. Forever. And yes, even if it only happened once. The implications from psychosis are more than just some temporary effect because you didn't sleep. Amphetamine psychosis is actually caused by the repeated dosage - sleep deprivation only made your brain more vulnerable. The variables that play into psychosis are so wide that studies have yet to really be conclusive on them. Currently, it is believed that prolonged amphetamine blood plasma induces dopamine hyperreactivity. Guess how schizophrenics are diagnosed? Dopamine hyperactivity. Again, this probably causes lasting deficits.
Want to avoid psychosis? Don't. Binge. It is nearly impossible to induce psychosis if there are more than 5 hours of sleep between dosages unless you were already genetically predisposed.
Here's the schedule a beginner should follow for daily productive use and to prevent neurotoxicity (Assuming 99% bioavailability. Adjust dosages for your ROA bioavailability):
Days 1-7: 0.15mg/kg
Days 8-?: <0.5mg/kg for males, <0.25mg/kg for females
No more than once a day
For recreational use:
Days 1-7:0.15mg/kg
Days 8-?: <1.0mg/kg for males, <0.5mg/kg for females
No more than once every 3-4 days
After pretreatment and sensitization, 1.0mg/kg WILL bring a satisfying rush. On a 160 pound person, that would be about 72mg. If it sounds too little to you, than you have gone too far.
It's that simple. Moderation is key, what a surprise huh? If everybody took amphetamines responsibly with milligram scales, we would probably be exploring the universe by now.
P.S. As a bonus, take Vitamin C and E for antioxidants. Take Magnesium to slow down acute tolerance (NMDA antagonist = be higher for longer! YAY). Zinc supplementation was also found to be synergistic with amphetamine in ADHD patients. I don't know its effects on normal people, but I take it anyway. For further reading, look up "Robinson TE". He is by far my favorite researcher. Another goodie is Carl Hart. He is a forerunner on meth research and always talks about the exaggerated claims on meth. He himself said that scientists have known for a long time that methamphetamine is exactly like dextroamphetamine at a drug policy conference. Watch him speak here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wNS_aRxTqs
What a load of BS--only psychologically addictive? I recall that being said about cocaine in a Playboy article glamorizing it back in the 70's. Sure Hugh and the gang would like to recant as in it still has the power to basically destroy your life and has done precisely that favor for many so only psychologically addicted. Fast forward another 20 and I have by then spent 5 years working on a PhD in neuroscience, have an MD degree and have treated dozens of meth addicts who just cant seem to say no. We get them at the the end of runs when the haven't ate or slept for days. They crash for 20/24 hours for the first couple. They tweek the entire time in treatment and often benefit from antispychotics and need to be watched liked hawks for the duration of their stay. The heroin addicts are thru the worst of it in 3 days and generally much healthier in every way. Don't need antipsychotics for sure. In short absolute drivel from someone with no scientific/addictionoolgy background wishint it were so. Like any drug including EtOH, take at your own risk. This particular bad boy/meth/has the poorest recovery stats of nearly any drug including H. Not absolutely futile but damn close in many instances. And yes hyperthermia'convulsions remain a medical risk.
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ive used crank in the past and found after 1 night all night partying and smoking crank the next day i would b spun-out.hearing bells and people calling my name.i guess i have a low tolerance to sleep depravation
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anyone know dosage or when/ how long to use l-tyrosine after a dopamine binge?
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I actually disagree that methamphetamine is superior to amphetamine. My experience with addy and dextros is that they are usually not such a great high. Yet good european street speed is every bit if not more enjoyable than meth IMO. Meth is much stronger yes and has more mental euphoria in some ways but good street speed has intense physical euphoria and just huge waves of mental euphoria is a really energetic and feels more fun and less cracky.
I prefer it to be honest. At the raves that are popular here in europe it outshines meth in just about every way.
Another reason we don't have it here is that it has been massively demonized in the press. There is a bigger stigma against meth than any other drug.
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anyone know dosage or when/ how long to use l-tyrosine after a dopamine binge?
While the effectiveness of Tyrosine, like most other supplements, is often disputed, I usually take 1g of Tyrosine a few hours after my last dose of Meth (if still awake), or when I wake up together with other
vitamins/anti-oxidants and a big meal.. Depending on how I feel or how long I might have been binging for, I sometimes take 1g while in the middle of a binge and also as part of regular supplements while I'm on
"meth holidays"..
Personally I find that I do get some benefit from it, often some time after digesting a Tyrosine dose I actually experience a similar feeling as a weak meth rush as some of the newly produced dopamine is released...
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I'm prescribed 30mg dexies a day for ADHD, spread over the day in 3 doses. I followed this pretty well for a couple of months before beginning to supplement it with good quality meth also dosed orally; combined I currently probably take the equivalent of 60mg dexies per day (I don't weigh the meth but I have a feel for how much). Although occasionally I might abuse it and run through my shit a bit early; over the past month, for various reasons, I've started to take it more for the rush than the productivity... after a week's break, for the last 5 days i've used around 100mg/day which is pretty much the worst I've ever done; after reading this thread I'm gonna cut that shit out. From skimming this thread, it seems that if all this presensitise stuff is true, I should be ok?
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After PM=-ing sniper (which will probs piss em off) i found this excellent post from SS. thank you SS.... lots of myths solved and questions answered. i shall try in moderation lol!
read the whole thing people. . . its great help!
peace
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Before I do any drugs, I do a shitton of reading on it. I go through all the medical literature because I want to know what I'm getting into. I've found that Meth has the exact same safety profile as dextro. Just another demonized drug because of idiot users. Before you call it addictive let me explain what I've found from scientific journals:
1. First off, Methamphetamine is only psychologically addictive. Just like Cannabis, food, or the internet. Methamphetamine's addiction potential is equal to prescription dextroamphetamine (at similarly potent doses). If you are wondering why d-amph addicts are so much rarer, it's because d-amph is typically given out in prescription tablets only. People can still break it down and snort it, but the difference is that these prescriptions regulate their dosage every month and drastically lowers the chances of addiction. Just another reason why the drug war is such a failure really. European speed is so diluted and cut that I'd be surprised if you even got 10% dextro in your powder. No American dealer wants to sell dextroamph because it takes an extra step in synthesis and is less potent. If Europe had the availability to meth precursors like America did, absolutely NO dealer would be selling l- or d-amphetamine. Pharmaceutical companies have the incentive to use d- and l-amphetamine because meth carries such a stigma that patients won't want to take it. Big pharma has near free access to precursors and laboratories so making the slightly less potent d-amph costs almost nothing to them. It is saddening that people who are "pro-drugs except for meth" are tricked by the same misinformation that they hate so much when it's against cannabis. Hopefully by this point, you and I are on the same page and have moved past this "evil meth" label. Thus, I will refer to meth as amphetamine from now on.
Significant withdrawal effects only occur when amph is continuously redosed in high dosages. Why? Because constant redosing causes neurotoxicity. The long half life of all amphetamine means that redosing will additively increase blood plasma levels and your brain will soak in that. Acute tolerance shuts out euphoria around the time you reach your first half life. Redosing = excitotoxicity and accumulation of oxidative reactive species in the absense of most of the euphoria. Daily usage is only safe at therapeutic dosages (UNDER ~0.5mg/kg). It seems like it is generally agreed upon that meth is more potent weight by weight than dextro (about 1.3x). When the dosages are matched, they have the exact same safety profile.
Chronic use at anything above therapeutic level causes persisting DA striatal depletion. As in, it comes back VERY slowly (think years) and it isn't 100%. You can withdraw from Heroin and get away without lasting physical damage. The same cannot be said for amphetamines. The striatal depletions go unnoticed by binge users until they stop dosing whereupon shit gets real. Quickly. These are the only people that get severe withdrawal effects and feel extremely addicted. Just like every other drug, binging is bad. Before you call therapeutic dosages too pussylike, read the rest of my post.
2. Pre-treatment. Holy fuck I was glad to find out about this before I started using. Pre-treatment takes only one week and it permanently boosts all your subsequent amphetamine effects. It is called sensitization or reverse-tolerance. When taken at sub neurotoxic dosages, the brain becomes supersensitized to all subsequent amphetamine dosages. This effect has been tested to last longer than 120 days and is probably permanent. Animals were intially given a single small amphetamine dosage. In 120 days, they received their second dosage and the effects were dramatically boosted. Tests in human subjects show that the subjective high is nearly doubled from baseline. More research has shown that the optimal pre-treatment schedule is 0.15mg/kg daily for 7 days. The longer the withdrawal period after that, the stronger the effects (up to 30 days when it levels out). Also, did I mention that pre-treatment significantly reduces neurotoxicity in subsequent binges and high dosages? If your first few amphetamine uses were high dosage, you shocked your brain. You most likely had neurotoxic hyperthermia which diminishes sensitization.
Source of pretreatment on sensitization and reverse tolerance: http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/26144/1/0000221.pdf
Source of pretreatment on neurotoxicity: http://www.nature.com/?file=/npp/journal/v28/n10/abs/1300247a.html
Bonus source for one dosage causing lasting sensitization: http://www.neuro.cjb.net/content/19/21/9579.short
(please keep in mind these dosages in the article are for rats and NOT for humans)
3. Any tolerance to amphetamines that last longer than 5 days is caused by neurotoxicity. The main reason for amphetamine's tolerance is its half life and how quickly the body adjusts to the presence of amphetamine in the blood. After only 3 days (approximately 5 half lives, i.e. ~97% of the drug is gone), this tolerance should be almost completely gone. Any persisting tolerance after 5 days was caused by striatal DA depletions as well as downregulation of D2 receptors. Again, if your tolerance lasts more than 5 days, reconsider your amount and frequency of dosage. Repeated high dosages without adequate time in between will fuck up your shit. The rewarding effects of sensitization is also severely diminished by this binge use.
Source: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584602002579
(I've seen several other sources but this is one I found with a quick search)
4. If you enjoy higher dosages, you must spread them out. This goes back to my last point. Moderately high dosages can actually be safe given that you washout the drugs (about 5 half lives) before redosing.
5. If you are female, the effects of amphetamine neurotoxicity are two folds stronger and psychosis along with addiction potential occur at half the dosage for males. The presence of certain male androgens are neuroprotective against amphetamine. Sorry, women.
6. Smoking and IV have the same safety profile as other ROA's when dosages are matched for bioavailibility and may actually be safer because of their shorter half lives. Rats can take single 25mg/kg injections with no neurotoxicity because their amphetamine half life is only one hour compared to the human time of 9-12 hours. Amphetamines are one of the rare drugs where these ROAs are safer because amphetamine neurotoxicity is primarily exacerbated by the time it stays in the body. Unfortunately, binge use with smoking or IV causes half life to be irrelevant and the safety profile becomes much more dangerous.
7. If you binge, STAY out places that are hotter than room temperature! Heat literally multiplies the tolerance and deficits you are causing to your brain. And, you must have already caused a lot of deficits if you are dumb enough to be a binge user.
To sum it up, DON'T FUCKING BINGE!
8. If you have suffered psychosis from amphetamine, I would consider stopping usage. Forever. And yes, even if it only happened once. The implications from psychosis are more than just some temporary effect because you didn't sleep. Amphetamine psychosis is actually caused by the repeated dosage - sleep deprivation only made your brain more vulnerable. The variables that play into psychosis are so wide that studies have yet to really be conclusive on them. Currently, it is believed that prolonged amphetamine blood plasma induces dopamine hyperreactivity. Guess how schizophrenics are diagnosed? Dopamine hyperactivity. Again, this probably causes lasting deficits.
Want to avoid psychosis? Don't. Binge. It is nearly impossible to induce psychosis if there are more than 5 hours of sleep between dosages unless you were already genetically predisposed.
Here's the schedule a beginner should follow for daily productive use and to prevent neurotoxicity (Assuming 99% bioavailability. Adjust dosages for your ROA bioavailability):
Days 1-7: 0.15mg/kg
Days 8-?: <0.5mg/kg for males, <0.25mg/kg for females
No more than once a day
For recreational use:
Days 1-7:0.15mg/kg
Days 8-?: <1.0mg/kg for males, <0.5mg/kg for females
No more than once every 3-4 days
After pretreatment and sensitization, 1.0mg/kg WILL bring a satisfying rush. On a 160 pound person, that would be about 72mg. If it sounds too little to you, than you have gone too far.
It's that simple. Moderation is key, what a surprise huh? If everybody took amphetamines responsibly with milligram scales, we would probably be exploring the universe by now.
P.S. As a bonus, take Vitamin C and E for antioxidants. Take Magnesium to slow down acute tolerance (NMDA antagonist = be higher for longer! YAY). Zinc supplementation was also found to be synergistic with amphetamine in ADHD patients. I don't know its effects on normal people, but I take it anyway. For further reading, look up "Robinson TE". He is by far my favorite researcher. Another goodie is Carl Hart. He is a forerunner on meth research and always talks about the exaggerated claims on meth. He himself said that scientists have known for a long time that methamphetamine is exactly like dextroamphetamine at a drug policy conference. Watch him speak here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wNS_aRxTqs
What a load of BS--only psychologically addictive? I recall that being said about cocaine in a Playboy article glamorizing it back in the 70's. Sure Hugh and the gang would like to recant as in it still has the power to basically destroy your life and has done precisely that favor for many so only psychologically addicted. Fast forward another 20 and I have by then spent 5 years working on a PhD in neuroscience, have an MD degree and have treated dozens of meth addicts who just cant seem to say no. We get them at the the end of runs when the haven't ate or slept for days. They crash for 20/24 hours for the first couple. They tweek the entire time in treatment and often benefit from antispychotics and need to be watched liked hawks for the duration of their stay. The heroin addicts are thru the worst of it in 3 days and generally much healthier in every way. Don't need antipsychotics for sure. In short absolute drivel from someone with no scientific/addictionoolgy background wishint it were so. Like any drug including EtOH, take at your own risk. This particular bad boy/meth/has the poorest recovery stats of nearly any drug including H. Not absolutely futile but damn close in many instances. And yes hyperthermia'convulsions remain a medical risk.
Well, looselucy, you would need to have 'cited out' your comments extensively like the OP did to get even a modicum of credibility here. Your anecdotal stories mean nothing. PhD in neuroscience or not.
Of course as a person working with those who have sought rehabilitation you are seeing a distorted picture of the 'average'... your only seeing the worst of the worst while they are at their worst... that is where your anecdotes and attitude come from. Try to realize this.
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reading your post again I'm seeing what a crapshoot it really is.
You write:
"They tweek the entire time in treatment"
Now that's rather a personal subjective judgement is it not ? Define 'tweek'! Perhaps it is you reading into innocuous normal behavior that which your biased self is expecting to see ?
You write:
"They crash for 20/24 hours for the first couple (of days)"
and
"and need to be watched liked hawks for the duration of their stay"
Why is that then ? is it because they may do some more speed while they are sleeping ?
You write:
"We get them at the end of runs when the haven't ate or slept for days"
So you basically confirm that your sample is biased heavily to only that tiny percentage of users who don't fare so well.
Your write:
"The heroin addicts are thru the worst of it in 3 days and generally much healthier in every way"
Are you playing on the media portrayal of H and your belief that readers are ignorant enough not to know that H is a very safe drug if used correctly. I mean even water will kill you through water intoxication if you abuse it.
You Write:
"This particular bad boy/meth/has the poorest recovery stats of nearly any drug including H."
'bad boy' hey, way to write in an unbiased/balanced fashion.
Please also define 'recovery stats' and then provide citations to the empirical studies you are drawing your conclusions from.
You write:
"hyperthermia'convulsions remain a medical risk"
So too does dying from allergic reaction to chocolate biscuits remain a medical risk. My understanding is that the very few worldwide media reports of persons dying from alleged amphetamine usage due to hypothermia were misreported and the actual cause was water intoxication because the person was a first time user predisposed to freaking out and so did freak out and gorged themselves on water thinking it would help them.
In short absolute drivel from someone only 'claiming' on an Internet forum to possess some level of scientific/addictionoolgy background who has neglected to follow protocol and provide citations, but instead has decided to rely on supposed personal anecdotes and who is without doubt only "wishint(sic) it were so"... I think you meant to write "wishing".
P.S. "addictionoolgy" is not a word by the way and if it were a word, it would be misspelled with the double 'oo'
P.P.S. "hyperthermia" is spelt 'hypothermia'
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Bahahaha +1 to you ShardInspector for a very entertaining frame by frame disintegration of the propaganda in the previous post!
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I never used methamphetamine or regular amphetamines, but I have used MDMA. Does this in theory effect my ability to sensitize myself by following the pre-treatment?
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Before I do any drugs, I do a shitton of reading on it. I go through all the medical literature because I want to know what I'm getting into. I've found that Meth has the exact same safety profile as dextro. Just another demonized drug because of idiot users. Before you call it addictive let me explain what I've found from scientific journals:
1. First off, Methamphetamine is only psychologically addictive. Just like Cannabis, food, or the internet. Methamphetamine's addiction potential is equal to prescription dextroamphetamine (at similarly potent doses). If you are wondering why d-amph addicts are so much rarer, it's because d-amph is typically given out in prescription tablets only. People can still break it down and snort it, but the difference is that these prescriptions regulate their dosage every month and drastically lowers the chances of addiction. Just another reason why the drug war is such a failure really. European speed is so diluted and cut that I'd be surprised if you even got 10% dextro in your powder. No American dealer wants to sell dextroamph because it takes an extra step in synthesis and is less potent. If Europe had the availability to meth precursors like America did, absolutely NO dealer would be selling l- or d-amphetamine. Pharmaceutical companies have the incentive to use d- and l-amphetamine because meth carries such a stigma that patients won't want to take it. Big pharma has near free access to precursors and laboratories so making the slightly less potent d-amph costs almost nothing to them. It is saddening that people who are "pro-drugs except for meth" are tricked by the same misinformation that they hate so much when it's against cannabis. Hopefully by this point, you and I are on the same page and have moved past this "evil meth" label. Thus, I will refer to meth as amphetamine from now on.
Significant withdrawal effects only occur when amph is continuously redosed in high dosages. Why? Because constant redosing causes neurotoxicity. The long half life of all amphetamine means that redosing will additively increase blood plasma levels and your brain will soak in that. Acute tolerance shuts out euphoria around the time you reach your first half life. Redosing = excitotoxicity and accumulation of oxidative reactive species in the absense of most of the euphoria. Daily usage is only safe at therapeutic dosages (UNDER ~0.5mg/kg). It seems like it is generally agreed upon that meth is more potent weight by weight than dextro (about 1.3x). When the dosages are matched, they have the exact same safety profile.
Chronic use at anything above therapeutic level causes persisting DA striatal depletion. As in, it comes back VERY slowly (think years) and it isn't 100%. You can withdraw from Heroin and get away without lasting physical damage. The same cannot be said for amphetamines. The striatal depletions go unnoticed by binge users until they stop dosing whereupon shit gets real. Quickly. These are the only people that get severe withdrawal effects and feel extremely addicted. Just like every other drug, binging is bad. Before you call therapeutic dosages too pussylike, read the rest of my post.
2. Pre-treatment. Holy fuck I was glad to find out about this before I started using. Pre-treatment takes only one week and it permanently boosts all your subsequent amphetamine effects. It is called sensitization or reverse-tolerance. When taken at sub neurotoxic dosages, the brain becomes supersensitized to all subsequent amphetamine dosages. This effect has been tested to last longer than 120 days and is probably permanent. Animals were intially given a single small amphetamine dosage. In 120 days, they received their second dosage and the effects were dramatically boosted. Tests in human subjects show that the subjective high is nearly doubled from baseline. More research has shown that the optimal pre-treatment schedule is 0.15mg/kg daily for 7 days. The longer the withdrawal period after that, the stronger the effects (up to 30 days when it levels out). Also, did I mention that pre-treatment significantly reduces neurotoxicity in subsequent binges and high dosages? If your first few amphetamine uses were high dosage, you shocked your brain. You most likely had neurotoxic hyperthermia which diminishes sensitization.
Source of pretreatment on sensitization and reverse tolerance: http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/26144/1/0000221.pdf
Source of pretreatment on neurotoxicity: http://www.nature.com/?file=/npp/journal/v28/n10/abs/1300247a.html
Bonus source for one dosage causing lasting sensitization: http://www.neuro.cjb.net/content/19/21/9579.short
(please keep in mind these dosages in the article are for rats and NOT for humans)
3. Any tolerance to amphetamines that last longer than 5 days is caused by neurotoxicity. The main reason for amphetamine's tolerance is its half life and how quickly the body adjusts to the presence of amphetamine in the blood. After only 3 days (approximately 5 half lives, i.e. ~97% of the drug is gone), this tolerance should be almost completely gone. Any persisting tolerance after 5 days was caused by striatal DA depletions as well as downregulation of D2 receptors. Again, if your tolerance lasts more than 5 days, reconsider your amount and frequency of dosage. Repeated high dosages without adequate time in between will fuck up your shit. The rewarding effects of sensitization is also severely diminished by this binge use.
Source: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584602002579
(I've seen several other sources but this is one I found with a quick search)
4. If you enjoy higher dosages, you must spread them out. This goes back to my last point. Moderately high dosages can actually be safe given that you washout the drugs (about 5 half lives) before redosing.
5. If you are female, the effects of amphetamine neurotoxicity are two folds stronger and psychosis along with addiction potential occur at half the dosage for males. The presence of certain male androgens are neuroprotective against amphetamine. Sorry, women.
6. Smoking and IV have the same safety profile as other ROA's when dosages are matched for bioavailibility and may actually be safer because of their shorter half lives. Rats can take single 25mg/kg injections with no neurotoxicity because their amphetamine half life is only one hour compared to the human time of 9-12 hours. Amphetamines are one of the rare drugs where these ROAs are safer because amphetamine neurotoxicity is primarily exacerbated by the time it stays in the body. Unfortunately, binge use with smoking or IV causes half life to be irrelevant and the safety profile becomes much more dangerous.
7. If you binge, STAY out places that are hotter than room temperature! Heat literally multiplies the tolerance and deficits you are causing to your brain. And, you must have already caused a lot of deficits if you are dumb enough to be a binge user.
To sum it up, DON'T FUCKING BINGE!
8. If you have suffered psychosis from amphetamine, I would consider stopping usage. Forever. And yes, even if it only happened once. The implications from psychosis are more than just some temporary effect because you didn't sleep. Amphetamine psychosis is actually caused by the repeated dosage - sleep deprivation only made your brain more vulnerable. The variables that play into psychosis are so wide that studies have yet to really be conclusive on them. Currently, it is believed that prolonged amphetamine blood plasma induces dopamine hyperreactivity. Guess how schizophrenics are diagnosed? Dopamine hyperactivity. Again, this probably causes lasting deficits.
Want to avoid psychosis? Don't. Binge. It is nearly impossible to induce psychosis if there are more than 5 hours of sleep between dosages unless you were already genetically predisposed.
Here's the schedule a beginner should follow for daily productive use and to prevent neurotoxicity (Assuming 99% bioavailability. Adjust dosages for your ROA bioavailability):
Days 1-7: 0.15mg/kg
Days 8-?: <0.5mg/kg for males, <0.25mg/kg for females
No more than once a day
For recreational use:
Days 1-7:0.15mg/kg
Days 8-?: <1.0mg/kg for males, <0.5mg/kg for females
No more than once every 3-4 days
After pretreatment and sensitization, 1.0mg/kg WILL bring a satisfying rush. On a 160 pound person, that would be about 72mg. If it sounds too little to you, than you have gone too far.
It's that simple. Moderation is key, what a surprise huh? If everybody took amphetamines responsibly with milligram scales, we would probably be exploring the universe by now.
P.S. As a bonus, take Vitamin C and E for antioxidants. Take Magnesium to slow down acute tolerance (NMDA antagonist = be higher for longer! YAY). Zinc supplementation was also found to be synergistic with amphetamine in ADHD patients. I don't know its effects on normal people, but I take it anyway. For further reading, look up "Robinson TE". He is by far my favorite researcher. Another goodie is Carl Hart. He is a forerunner on meth research and always talks about the exaggerated claims on meth. He himself said that scientists have known for a long time that methamphetamine is exactly like dextroamphetamine at a drug policy conference. Watch him speak here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wNS_aRxTqs
What a load of BS--only psychologically addictive? I recall that being said about cocaine in a Playboy article glamorizing it back in the 70's. Sure Hugh and the gang would like to recant as in it still has the power to basically destroy your life and has done precisely that favor for many so only psychologically addicted. Fast forward another 20 and I have by then spent 5 years working on a PhD in neuroscience, have an MD degree and have treated dozens of meth addicts who just cant seem to say no. We get them at the the end of runs when the haven't ate or slept for days. They crash for 20/24 hours for the first couple. They tweek the entire time in treatment and often benefit from antispychotics and need to be watched liked hawks for the duration of their stay. The heroin addicts are thru the worst of it in 3 days and generally much healthier in every way. Don't need antipsychotics for sure. In short absolute drivel from someone with no scientific/addictionoolgy background wishint it were so. Like any drug including EtOH, take at your own risk. This particular bad boy/meth/has the poorest recovery stats of nearly any drug including H. Not absolutely futile but damn close in many instances. And yes hyperthermia'convulsions remain a medical risk.
Well, looselucy, you would need to have 'cited out' your comments extensively like the OP did to get even a modicum of credibility here. Your anecdotal stories mean nothing. PhD in neuroscience or not.
Of course as a person working with those who have sought rehabilitation you are seeing a distorted picture of the 'average'... your only seeing the worst of the worst while they are at their worst... that is where your anecdotes and attitude come from. Try to realize this.
Sorry that you find the comments w/o credibility--there are some things IMHO though that are so well known as to be taken for granted and not in need of strict citation : 1) that meth is among the most addictive drugs known to man with a recovery rate that is abysmal. Two, that among mind altering drugs with legitimate medical purposes, say for instance, amphetmines, opioids, cannabis, benzos, NMDA antagonistic based anesthetics such as ketamine and PCP, amphetamines seem to have the greatest potential for long duration negative behavioral and cognitive side effects. Here I am not talking about addictive behaviors and the negative consequences stemming therefrom but rather the very real possibility of frying ones brain and ending up in a near permanant depession due to dopamine pathway dysregulation, or ending up with a semi-permanant psychosis. I've seen both first hand and while they may indeed be the "worst of the worst" I suspect they aren't--as those folk end up in prison or dead. Now whether it is possible to dabble recreationally is another question altogether--but what I took exception with and forgive my stridency on the point, is that whether a drug is only psychologically addictive vs one like the opioids which are also physically addictive is a potentially misleading and dangerous way to view the subject. This is old school--very old school in fact--theory that suggests addiction blossoms most fruitfully from the seeds of withdrawal--to wit that it is the avoidance of dysphoric physical sensations that drives addiction. My experience and a lot of collective wisdom deems that this is no longer a valid view--the physical piece is only part of a very complicated web of factors that while an important cause of relapse in treatment and before that the inability to escape the tendrils of addiction, it is probably not that important altogether. 3) That of all the neurologically active and important pathways that appear to lead to addictions of all sorts--including compulsive gambling and sexual acting out, the dopaminergic centers in areas of the midbrain such as the vental tegmentum area (VTA) appear to be the most potent. Based on these neurobiological findings, using a drug that directly impacts dopamine levels directly seems to be asking for trouble whether you are spared the shits, goose pimples, myoclonic jerks, and belly cramps--or not.
So does every casual recreational user of amphetamines becomes a tweeked out mess? Good gracious, no. Most drugs of whatever stripe end up with a 10-20% addiction rate. What we do know about amphetamines as there have been three major epidemics of addiction--the two in the US being during the 60's and 80's-90's--and all leave one lasting legacy: speed kills. Not everyone obviously, but playing russian roulette with this drug should in my view be done after acquiring experience with many others to see how resistant to the spells of their charms one is. Taking a overly optimistic point of view about the risks/benefits of a particular drug based on some really quaint notions re whether a drug is only psychologically addictive to me a potential recipe for disaster. Just my 2 cents worth. Take it for what its worth.
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reading your post again I'm seeing what a crapshoot it really is.
You write:
"They tweek the entire time in treatment"
Now that's rather a personal subjective judgement is it not ? Define 'tweek'! Perhaps it is you reading into innocuous normal behavior that which your biased self is expecting to see ?
You write:
"They crash for 20/24 hours for the first couple (of days)"
and
"and need to be watched liked hawks for the duration of their stay"
Why is that then ? is it because they may do some more speed while they are sleeping ?
You write:
"We get them at the end of runs when the haven't ate or slept for days"
So you basically confirm that your sample is biased heavily to only that tiny percentage of users who don't fare so well.
Your write:
"The heroin addicts are thru the worst of it in 3 days and generally much healthier in every way"
Are you playing on the media portrayal of H and your belief that readers are ignorant enough not to know that H is a very safe drug if used correctly. I mean even water will kill you through water intoxication if you abuse it.
You Write:
"This particular bad boy/meth/has the poorest recovery stats of nearly any drug including H."
'bad boy' hey, way to write in an unbiased/balanced fashion.
Please also define 'recovery stats' and then provide citations to the empirical studies you are drawing your conclusions from.
You write:
"hyperthermia'convulsions remain a medical risk"
So too does dying from allergic reaction to chocolate biscuits remain a medical risk. My understanding is that the very few worldwide media reports of persons dying from alleged amphetamine usage due to hypothermia were misreported and the actual cause was water intoxication because the person was a first time user predisposed to freaking out and so did freak out and gorged themselves on water thinking it would help them.
In short absolute drivel from someone only 'claiming' on an Internet forum to possess some level of scientific/addictionoolgy background who has neglected to follow protocol and provide citations, but instead has decided to rely on supposed personal anecdotes and who is without doubt only "wishint(sic) it were so"... I think you meant to write "wishing".
P.S. "addictionoolgy" is not a word by the way and if it were a word, it would be misspelled with the double 'oo'
P.P.S. "hyperthermia" is spelt 'hypothermia'
ShardInspector!? More like PostInspector? The Inspector is in none the less!
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can ice be eaten? is it in hydrochloride form? that way it can be absorbed in your stomach?
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Yes, Ice is orally active, however bioavailability is only a little over 60%. Nasal is a lil better at 80%, but both suck compared to smoking/injecting.
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So I'm about to start using meth as one would use adderall, for similar reasons and in similar doses. I have twelve hour classes and want to redose during the day, but of course I can't be smoking meth in school. So I was thinking of dissolving it in a saline nasal spray.
But this leads to a few questions. Like, will the meth dissolve in saline spray? Will the meth react with saline spray? When figuring out dosing, how do I know how many ml there are in each spray?
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First thing you want to do is look up a dosage table, from memory, its something like 20/13/8 methylphenidate/dexamphetamine/methamphetamine.
So figure out how much methamphetamine you want as an equivalent to your standard dexamphetamine dosage(I believe adderall is roughly 50% dexamphetamine sulfate/succhrate, not sure though)
Next, figure out how many ml of liquid is in each spray, there are several ways to do this, I'd mix a small, measured amount of meth with water, spraying it on a glass tray, and evaporating, compare the amount of meth on the tray with the mg/ml ratio of meth/water in the bottle. Adjust accordingly.
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First thing you want to do is look up a dosage table, from memory, its something like 20/13/8 methylphenidate/dexamphetamine/methamphetamine.
So figure out how much methamphetamine you want as an equivalent to your standard dexamphetamine dosage(I believe adderall is roughly 50% dexamphetamine sulfate/succhrate, not sure though)
Next, figure out how many ml of liquid is in each spray, there are several ways to do this, I'd mix a small, measured amount of meth with water, spraying it on a glass tray, and evaporating, compare the amount of meth on the tray with the mg/ml ratio of meth/water in the bottle. Adjust accordingly.
Thank you for your help. I'm now thinking I want 5-10mg a dose for the meth.
as for the second part, could I just keep spraying out the bottle until it was empty, and then dividing the ml count of the bottle by the number of sprays it took to empty it?
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What a load of BS--only psychologically addictive? I recall that being said about cocaine in a Playboy article glamorizing it back in the 70's. Sure Hugh and the gang would like to recant as in it still has the power to basically destroy your life and has done precisely that favor for many so only psychologically addicted. Fast forward another 20 and I have by then spent 5 years working on a PhD in neuroscience, have an MD degree and have treated dozens of meth addicts who just cant seem to say no. We get them at the the end of runs when the haven't ate or slept for days. They crash for 20/24 hours for the first couple. They tweek the entire time in treatment and often benefit from antispychotics and need to be watched liked hawks for the duration of their stay. The heroin addicts are thru the worst of it in 3 days and generally much healthier in every way. Don't need antipsychotics for sure. In short absolute drivel from someone with no scientific/addictionoolgy background wishint it were so. Like any drug including EtOH, take at your own risk. This particular bad boy/meth/has the poorest recovery stats of nearly any drug including H. Not absolutely futile but damn close in many instances. And yes hyperthermia'convulsions remain a medical risk.
This is complete, total, and utter bullshit. Do not listen to a fucking word this person said. I would have pointed it out earlier, but I hadn't looked in this thread since my last post. God, how damaging to a recovering addict can you be -- meth addiction has a very similar recovery rate to other drugs. If you want to stop, YOU CAN. I promise you. I will die an addict, personally -- the life I can have without amphetamines is not what I consider "life." Period. But don't fuck up other people's heads saying it's impossible. You're a God awful therapist if you really are one, and you should be ashamed. Help people, don't fucking hurt them and tell them it's almost impossible. Jesus Christ.
First thing you want to do is look up a dosage table, from memory, its something like 20/13/8 methylphenidate/dexamphetamine/methamphetamine.
So figure out how much methamphetamine you want as an equivalent to your standard dexamphetamine dosage(I believe adderall is roughly 50% dexamphetamine sulfate/succhrate, not sure though)
Next, figure out how many ml of liquid is in each spray, there are several ways to do this, I'd mix a small, measured amount of meth with water, spraying it on a glass tray, and evaporating, compare the amount of meth on the tray with the mg/ml ratio of meth/water in the bottle. Adjust accordingly.
Adderall is 75% the dextro- isomer (is enantiomer better usage here? Any chemists know?) and 25% the levo- isomer. It's dextroamphetamine sulfate, dextroamphetamine sacharrate/sacharride, racemic amphetamine sulfate, and racemic amphetamine monohydrate. Racemic means equal parts dextro- and levo-, so that adds up to 75% dextro-, 25% levo-. Note that the levo- isomer of non-methylated amphetamine is more active than the levo- isomer of methylated amphetamine (which is methamphetamine), so you should probably count the levo- part of adderall more or less equally.
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What a load of BS--only psychologically addictive? I recall that being said about cocaine in a Playboy article glamorizing it back in the 70's. Sure Hugh and the gang would like to recant as in it still has the power to basically destroy your life and has done precisely that favor for many so only psychologically addicted. Fast forward another 20 and I have by then spent 5 years working on a PhD in neuroscience, have an MD degree and have treated dozens of meth addicts who just cant seem to say no. We get them at the the end of runs when the haven't ate or slept for days. They crash for 20/24 hours for the first couple. They tweek the entire time in treatment and often benefit from antispychotics and need to be watched liked hawks for the duration of their stay. The heroin addicts are thru the worst of it in 3 days and generally much healthier in every way. Don't need antipsychotics for sure. In short absolute drivel from someone with no scientific/addictionoolgy background wishint it were so. Like any drug including EtOH, take at your own risk. This particular bad boy/meth/has the poorest recovery stats of nearly any drug including H. Not absolutely futile but damn close in many instances. And yes hyperthermia'convulsions remain a medical risk.
This is complete, total, and utter bullshit. Do not listen to a fucking word this person said. I would have pointed it out earlier, but I hadn't looked in this thread since my last post. God, how damaging to a recovering addict can you be -- meth addiction has a very similar recovery rate to other drugs. If you want to stop, YOU CAN. I promise you. I will die an addict, personally -- the life I can have without amphetamines is not what I consider "life." Period. But don't fuck up other people's heads saying it's impossible. You're a God awful therapist if you really are one, and you should be ashamed. Help people, don't fucking hurt them and tell them it's almost impossible. Jesus Christ.
First thing you want to do is look up a dosage table, from memory, its something like 20/13/8 methylphenidate/dexamphetamine/methamphetamine.
So figure out how much methamphetamine you want as an equivalent to your standard dexamphetamine dosage(I believe adderall is roughly 50% dexamphetamine sulfate/succhrate, not sure though)
Next, figure out how many ml of liquid is in each spray, there are several ways to do this, I'd mix a small, measured amount of meth with water, spraying it on a glass tray, and evaporating, compare the amount of meth on the tray with the mg/ml ratio of meth/water in the bottle. Adjust accordingly.
Adderall is 75% the dextro- isomer (is enantiomer better usage here? Any chemists know?) and 25% the levo- isomer. It's dextroamphetamine sulfate, dextroamphetamine sacharrate/sacharride, racemic amphetamine sulfate, and racemic amphetamine monohydrate. Racemic means equal parts dextro- and levo-, so that adds up to 75% dextro-, 25% levo-. Note that the levo- isomer of non-methylated amphetamine is more active than the levo- isomer of methylated amphetamine (which is methamphetamine), so you should probably count the levo- part of adderall more or less equally.
SelfSov, Lucie's comment you quoted infuriated me on many levels as well. While writing a qualified smackdown with the fury of 1st testament God, my keyboard somehow switched to Cyrillic just before I finished. Then I noticed Lucie's very much warranted followup statement above and I found forgiveness as there is truth in it. Still, that initial comment makes me happy that she's pursuing a PhD...work better suited for her by the sound of her and apparent limit view of the human experience.
And to the dude wanting to make his own adderall with meth...understand that meth quality varies wildly, vendor to vendor, batch to batch. WILDLY. So much so that it may not resemble the same drug one order to the next. Physically in appearance or subjective experience.
I'm a little jaded after some recent experiences, but I'd suggest against this at the moment (especially), and better yet, avoid it all together. I've played this game for a year and lately I'm convinced that the majoriity of meth listed is not real meth at all but various combinations of watered down crystal meth, crank, and/or various RC's cleverly sold in a matrix of MSM.
There are a couple European vendors. Ruthenium offered pure dextroamphetamine recently. I had some, it was the bees knees. He should be restocking soon. That is what you want. and Like Self Sov said, combine with 25% regular speed from a reliable vendor (boymaster) for an adderall replica.
Honestly though, if you can manage getting a Rx, it will probably save you money, frustration, heartache, and the risk of addiction.
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as for the second part, could I just keep spraying out the bottle until it was empty, and then dividing the ml count of the bottle by the number of sprays it took to empty it?
You could do that, however almost all spray bottles I've seen can never be completely emptied by spraying. There will always be a small amount left in the bottom that couldn't be sucked up.
@Le botbahn: Ahh, my bad. I don't really understand why they label it as such though, If something has equal parts dexamphetamine sulphate and racemic amphetamine sulphate, its the same as saying that its 75% dex 25% levo.
FWIW: I'm pretty sure the proper term is isomer in this instance.
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What a load of BS--only psychologically addictive? I recall that being said about cocaine in a Playboy article glamorizing it back in the 70's. Sure Hugh and the gang would like to recant as in it still has the power to basically destroy your life and has done precisely that favor for many so only psychologically addicted. Fast forward another 20 and I have by then spent 5 years working on a PhD in neuroscience, have an MD degree and have treated dozens of meth addicts who just cant seem to say no. We get them at the the end of runs when the haven't ate or slept for days. They crash for 20/24 hours for the first couple. They tweek the entire time in treatment and often benefit from antispychotics and need to be watched liked hawks for the duration of their stay. The heroin addicts are thru the worst of it in 3 days and generally much healthier in every way. Don't need antipsychotics for sure. In short absolute drivel from someone with no scientific/addictionoolgy background wishint it were so. Like any drug including EtOH, take at your own risk. This particular bad boy/meth/has the poorest recovery stats of nearly any drug including H. Not absolutely futile but damn close in many instances. And yes hyperthermia'convulsions remain a medical risk.
This is complete, total, and utter bullshit. Do not listen to a fucking word this person said. I would have pointed it out earlier, but I hadn't looked in this thread since my last post. God, how damaging to a recovering addict can you be -- meth addiction has a very similar recovery rate to other drugs. If you want to stop, YOU CAN. I promise you. I will die an addict, personally -- the life I can have without amphetamines is not what I consider "life." Period. But don't fuck up other people's heads saying it's impossible. You're a God awful therapist if you really are one, and you should be ashamed. Help people, don't fucking hurt them and tell them it's almost impossible. Jesus Christ.
First thing you want to do is look up a dosage table, from memory, its something like 20/13/8 methylphenidate/dexamphetamine/methamphetamine.
So figure out how much methamphetamine you want as an equivalent to your standard dexamphetamine dosage(I believe adderall is roughly 50% dexamphetamine sulfate/succhrate, not sure though)
Next, figure out how many ml of liquid is in each spray, there are several ways to do this, I'd mix a small, measured amount of meth with water, spraying it on a glass tray, and evaporating, compare the amount of meth on the tray with the mg/ml ratio of meth/water in the bottle. Adjust accordingly.
Adderall is 75% the dextro- isomer (is enantiomer better usage here? Any chemists know?) and 25% the levo- isomer. It's dextroamphetamine sulfate, dextroamphetamine sacharrate/sacharride, racemic amphetamine sulfate, and racemic amphetamine monohydrate. Racemic means equal parts dextro- and levo-, so that adds up to 75% dextro-, 25% levo-. Note that the levo- isomer of non-methylated amphetamine is more active than the levo- isomer of methylated amphetamine (which is methamphetamine), so you should probably count the levo- part of adderall more or less equally.
SelfSov, Lucie's comment you quoted infuriated me on many levels as well. While writing a qualified smackdown with the fury of 1st testament God, my keyboard somehow switched to Cyrillic just before I finished. Then I noticed Lucie's very much warranted followup statement above and I found forgiveness as there is truth in it. Still, that initial comment makes me happy that she's pursuing a PhD...work better suited for her by the sound of her and apparent limit view of the human experience.
And to the dude wanting to make his own adderall with meth...understand that meth quality varies wildly, vendor to vendor, batch to batch. WILDLY. So much so that it may not resemble the same drug one order to the next. Physically in appearance or subjective experience.
I'm a little jaded after some recent experiences, but I'd suggest against this at the moment (especially), and better yet, avoid it all together. I've played this game for a year and lately I'm convinced that the majoriity of meth listed is not real meth at all but various combinations of watered down crystal meth, crank, and/or various RC's cleverly sold in a matrix of MSM.
There are a couple European vendors. Ruthenium offered pure dextroamphetamine recently. I had some, it was the bees knees. He should be restocking soon. That is what you want. and Like Self Sov said, combine with 25% regular speed from a reliable vendor (boymaster) for an adderall replica.
Honestly though, if you can manage getting a Rx, it will probably save you money, frustration, heartache, and the risk of addiction.
I'm talking about Hammertime meth here.
as for the second part, could I just keep spraying out the bottle until it was empty, and then dividing the ml count of the bottle by the number of sprays it took to empty it?
You could do that, however almost all spray bottles I've seen can never be completely emptied by spraying. There will always be a small amount left in the bottom that couldn't be sucked up.
Compared to the size of the bottle, it'd only make one or two mg in difference for each dosage, if that. And we're talking about meth here, it's not like I might overdose.
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Woh! I'm on my first day and 15mg intranasally is pretty stimulating for someone who has never used amphetamines before!
I'm going to be productive now :)
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So I got a a 30ml spray bottle. I've estimated each spray to contain 20 microlitres of fluid.
Now this is substantially less than what I thought it'd be. Is meth water soluble enough to allow for 5mg a spray?
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So each spray is 1/50th of a ml? That doesn't seem quite right. From memory, most of the spray bottles I've used have delivered between 0.1-0.15ml per spray.
That being said, if true it should still work, the only reference I could find to methamphetamine soluability was here(Clearnet link)
http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/pim334.htm
which gives it at 1gm:2ml.
If you dissolve till saturation point you should get about 10mg of meth per spray unless my maths has failed me.(Completely possible) 2 sprays up each nostril should get you going pretty well.
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Being a regular user of decongestant sprays, I have much wisdom regarding spray bottles. A 10ml bottle will usually last me around two weeks. Each day I use around 4 sprays.
Let's say 15 days x 4 sprays = 60 sprays =10ml
Lets say you dissolve 1 gram meth into 10ml water
1gram/60 sprays = 0.017g per spray. So one spray for work purposes, three for fun purposes.
Will be trying this with my next bag - you can't get stealthier than this! Would it being in solution increase the BA?
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Will be trying this with my next bag - you can't get stealthier than this! Would it being in solution increase the BA?
I hope I had some influence in that decision.
and I can't think of how it would increase bioavailabilty, thought since liquid has a potentially infinite surface area, it'd probably decrease time of onset.
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Well my meth just arrived. I bit off a piece about the size of the lead on the tip of a pencil, and two hours later, I cannot feel a thing.
The oral onset is supposed to be less than an hour.
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So about thirty minutes ago, since I couldn't feel anything. I pulled out a crystal that was about 1/4 the size of my 20mg Ritalin tablets(which are practically all adulterants), and I still can't feel a fucking thing!
Now, I placed the crystal on my tongue. Before I could wash it down with water however, most of it dissolved, and now that I think about it, something similar happened with the first dose. Could this be why I haven't felt anything all day?
EDIT:
Alright, about 30-60 minutes after that post, it kicked in, and I've felt like I'm on 15mg Adderall for about 2 hours now.
However, What I took had to have been at least 30mg(of meth, which is about 2x stronger than Adderall). About 2/3 of it dissolved on my tongue before I swallowed a glass of water. I thought that it would have just been saliva on my tongue which the water would have then rinsed into my stomach. However, could it just have been absorbed INTO my tongue muscles and not my bloodstream?
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This is strange. I recently used some of hammertime's meth and found it to be pretty strong. Stronger than the meth that I was using before (which was the first I ever tried) and which I also thought was very strong. I also am prescribed dexamp, so I would venture to say that I have a bit of tolerance. A piece the size of the tip of a pencil would at least stimulate me somewhat.
Have you used any other drugs lately? Any supplements you take?
Your nasal spray idea sounds excellent, I hope that works. If it does, please share your methods :)
As it seems like the both of us have just begun using meth, I thought I might share a few thoughts I've had during my first few days of use (on and off). If dosed once or twice in the day, meth can be quite pleasant and stimulating/productive. However, more than that and you'll probably get a more fiendish vibe. The thought of a crystal will possibly make your mouth water and the thought of the burn from insufflation will seem like bliss. I have discovered that meth was perfect for use in the classroom. I paid attention, asked excellent questions, and took stellar notes. I also made a very precise and detailed list about what I should do in order to continue my academic success (homework assignments, readings, etc). However, upon leaving the classroom, I was easily distracted and ended up focusing my energy on comparatively frivolous pursuits. The frivolity of which was apparent during classroom time and now, at the comedown stage. There was a temptation to redose, quite strong at that. Usually the idea of taking a benzo and sleeping sounds nice to me, but right now the idea of doing more meth sounds more appealing than sleep, which is obviously dangerous territory.
What I've personally discovered (for myself, this may vary from one person to the next of course) is that during the meth "high" (if one could call it that in its lower doses) it is very easy for one to obtain the illusion of productivity. During what I perceived to the peak, I felt as if I was moving so quickly through tasks that I had much more time at my disposal. At this point, I decided to write a rather long and detailed journal entry (hand-written) about my life thus far rather than do work for my classes. Though it was satisfying and I don't regret writing the journal entry, I would prefer to look back and say that I got quantifiable work done during the use of the drug. This may be a result of my newness to this particular stimulant or personal discipline, but I just thought I'd share my experience.
That being said, I still think I'd give this another go but perhaps under different circumstances. I would redose less, take a multivitamin, eat more, drink more water, possibly dose orally rather than nasally, and structure my time more efficiently. It is truly amazing how time slips by on this substance. I didn't believe it when I read about this, but it definitely does happen. In the present, time seems to be going by so slowly and then as soon as you undertake any task time flys by.
I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors, as well as anyone else!
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The few times I've binged on Adderall, I've had a problem with that happening to me. You want to conquer the world, but simultaneously, you become an OCD perfectionist, wanting to fix every problem and issue. EVERY problem and issue. It's really easy to be in the middle of homework power-session and notice something, like, "Hey, my desk isn't perfectly lined up with the wall behind it. I better fix this RIGHT NOW. Hey! In the process of moving my desk, I noticed that behind my desk, the floor sure is dirty. I should vacuum this RIGHT NOW!" and then it snowballs from there.
I think the key to avoiding this type of thing is making a time-ordered list before taking the meth of what you're going to do. If something like my example comes up where you notice, say, your desk isn't perfectly lined up, just write a note(and you'll actually probably want a list on a lined piece of paper, or even a composition notebook dedicated to this purpose) saying to attend to it later, and carry on with your current activity that needs to be done. Just make sure not to get caught up listing things that need to be done.
A powerful phrase that you need to tell yourself when on the effects of DRI stimulants is, "Let go." It's insanely easy to get caught up in the temptation of working on and fixing pointless shit, and it's insanely easy to justify it, for two reasons: 1: Since you think you're being productive, you don't think that you're doing anything wrong. However, you end up easily overestimating the importance of things like that over the task you're supposed to be doing, like homework. 2: You might end up thinking, "This homework really needs to be done, but if I don't clean off my entire collection of DVDs right now, it will stay on the back of my mind until I do clean them all off and it will be chewing at the back of my mind and I won't even be able to get anything done." However, this is rarely the case, and as soon as you get the dopamine-filled locomotive that is our brain moving and back on task, you probably forget about it.
It might be hard, and harder for some, to be able to let go, but it really is important to be able to do. If you can't, perhaps you could look into getting a benzo. Not anything powerful enough or in a high enough dose to negate the effects of the meth(or Adderall or Ritalin or whatever), but enough to give you that extra edge to relieve anxiety and help you "let go".
and don't underestimate the importance of gum, or some other source of oral fixation that isn't cigarettes, for being on meth. Not for just the comedown, but also for having something to take out your anxiety during the meth high.
As for me... my jaw does this thing where if I move it open leftwards, it will pop/click. Right now, being on what feels like 15mgs/Adderall worth of meth, it isn't much more problematic/annoying than when I'm sober. However, I really do feel as though is going to get aggravating as all hell as my meth career progresses.
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Damn bynter, thanks for this post. +1.
This description is EXACTLY what I experienced, and I think I'll try your suggestions in the future and see if I can hack it. If not, I'll try the benzo solution and see if that works. The mantra idea is also quite helpful. Thanks again, my friend. Best of luck to you!
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I think the keys to avoiding this type of thing of making a time-ordered list before taking the meth of what you're going to do.
I do one hour on, one hour off. Using your example, I might go to finish up some work and realize my desk is off center, dvds are dirty, I have an overpowering urge to list things, etc. So I check the clock make a mental note of what time I started and go to town on all my little amph ticks. After an hour I get back to my desk and work clear minded for another hour, sometimes push it if I'm in the zone. But sure enough I check the time and take a break for a bit, go to the kitchen, notice the underside of my cupboard doors are slightly dirty so I clean them and sort all my spoons by size and material. Finish up, make a smoothy (anyone that is a regular amph user knows the overwhelming glory what is the smoothy. Some days I can't even eat solid foods :P) etc, etc.
Just be careful if you're buying a lot of raw product at a time.. it's really easy to start "accidentally" double dosing every morning or dosing through the night to work on "that big project/paper."
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I have been strongly considering this option as a way of assuring that I stick to safe levels of use.
This is a TIMED SAFE. It only allows access after X period of time which the owner sets before locking it.
CLEARNET LINK!
http://captureddiscipline.com/
It is $130 which is pretty cheap for the potential harm that this drug holds. It would work well for SR because of the length of time between ordering product and its delivery, it is easier to watch the safe and wait for it to open.
It would also be good for just about any other drug. I am not posting this for advertisement.
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In theory it's genius but anyone that's had there in's and out's with this substance knows that it's just another road bump. You're on amphs, you now this safe won't open till tomorrow morning. So the next morning you end up weighing out a little extra, "ya know, for later, in case my workload gets too heavy." Before you know it you hide a 0.5 in the bathroom taped under the sink in case you "need a little extra" that your partner/conscience shouldn't know about :P
I think having someone that you're completely honest with and knows you and your substance ab/use is the most useful tool to have, be it a room mate, co worker, lover/partner.
Nothing works better then telling your better half that you're binging to get your shit back together hahaha
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I happened to find this.
Modeling sensitization to stimulants in humans: an [11C]raclopride/positron emission tomography study in healthy men.
Boileau I, Dagher A, Leyton M, Gunn RN, Baker GB, Diksic M, Benkelfat C.
Source
McConnell Brain Imaging Center, Montreal Neurological Institute, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Abstract
CONTEXT:
In animals, repeated exposure to stimulant drugs leads to an enhanced drug-induced psychomotor response and increased dopamine release. This phenomenon, known as sensitization, may confer vulnerability to drug addiction or drug-induced psychosis in humans. A similar phenomenon, referred to as endogenous sensitization, is also believed to play a role in the emergence of positive symptoms in patients with schizophrenia.
OBJECTIVE:
To determine whether behavioral and neurochemical sensitization occur in healthy individuals after limited exposure to amphetamine in the laboratory.
DESIGN:
Open-label, 1-year follow-up of repeated amphetamine administration in healthy volunteers.
SETTING:
Department of Psychiatry, McGill University, and McConnell Brain Imaging Center, Montreal Neurological Institute.
PARTICIPANTS:
Ten healthy men (mean +/- SD age, 25.8 +/- 1.8 years).
INTERVENTION:
Three single doses of amphetamine (dextroamphetamine sulfate, 0.3 mg/kg by mouth) were administered on days 1, 3, and 5.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Using positron emission tomography and [11C]raclopride, we measured dopamine release in response to amphetamine on the first exposure (day 1) and 14 days and 1 year after the third exposure.
RESULTS:
The initial dose of amphetamine caused dopamine release in the ventral striatum (a reduction in [11C]raclopride binding). Consistent with a sensitization-like phenomenon, 14 and 365 days after the third dose of amphetamine there was a greater psychomotor response and increased dopamine release (a greater reduction in [11C]raclopride binding), relative to the initial dose, in the ventral striatum, progressively extending to the dorsal caudate and putamen. A high novelty-seeking personality trait and self-rating assessments indicating impulsivity predicted proneness to sensitization.
CONCLUSIONS:
Sensitization to stimulants can be achieved in healthy men in the laboratory. This phenomenon is associated with increased dopamine release and persists for at least 1 year.
***Clearnet***
Source
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17146013
***Clearnet***
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I happened to find this.
Modeling sensitization to stimulants in humans: an [11C]raclopride/positron emission tomography study in healthy men.
Boileau I, Dagher A, Leyton M, Gunn RN, Baker GB, Diksic M, Benkelfat C.
Source
McConnell Brain Imaging Center, Montreal Neurological Institute, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Abstract
CONTEXT:
In animals, repeated exposure to stimulant drugs leads to an enhanced drug-induced psychomotor response and increased dopamine release. This phenomenon, known as sensitization, may confer vulnerability to drug addiction or drug-induced psychosis in humans. A similar phenomenon, referred to as endogenous sensitization, is also believed to play a role in the emergence of positive symptoms in patients with schizophrenia.
OBJECTIVE:
To determine whether behavioral and neurochemical sensitization occur in healthy individuals after limited exposure to amphetamine in the laboratory.
DESIGN:
Open-label, 1-year follow-up of repeated amphetamine administration in healthy volunteers.
SETTING:
Department of Psychiatry, McGill University, and McConnell Brain Imaging Center, Montreal Neurological Institute.
PARTICIPANTS:
Ten healthy men (mean +/- SD age, 25.8 +/- 1.8 years).
INTERVENTION:
Three single doses of amphetamine (dextroamphetamine sulfate, 0.3 mg/kg by mouth) were administered on days 1, 3, and 5.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Using positron emission tomography and [11C]raclopride, we measured dopamine release in response to amphetamine on the first exposure (day 1) and 14 days and 1 year after the third exposure.
RESULTS:
The initial dose of amphetamine caused dopamine release in the ventral striatum (a reduction in [11C]raclopride binding). Consistent with a sensitization-like phenomenon, 14 and 365 days after the third dose of amphetamine there was a greater psychomotor response and increased dopamine release (a greater reduction in [11C]raclopride binding), relative to the initial dose, in the ventral striatum, progressively extending to the dorsal caudate and putamen. A high novelty-seeking personality trait and self-rating assessments indicating impulsivity predicted proneness to sensitization.
CONCLUSIONS:
Sensitization to stimulants can be achieved in healthy men in the laboratory. This phenomenon is associated with increased dopamine release and persists for at least 1 year.
***Clearnet***
Source
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17146013
***Clearnet***
I didn't understand, after taking meth 3 times a week for a year, their body was more sensitive to meth, or their overall dopamine production was increased?
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I happened to find this.
Modeling sensitization to stimulants in humans: an [11C]raclopride/positron emission tomography study in healthy men.
Boileau I, Dagher A, Leyton M, Gunn RN, Baker GB, Diksic M, Benkelfat C.
Source
McConnell Brain Imaging Center, Montreal Neurological Institute, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Abstract
CONTEXT:
In animals, repeated exposure to stimulant drugs leads to an enhanced drug-induced psychomotor response and increased dopamine release. This phenomenon, known as sensitization, may confer vulnerability to drug addiction or drug-induced psychosis in humans. A similar phenomenon, referred to as endogenous sensitization, is also believed to play a role in the emergence of positive symptoms in patients with schizophrenia.
OBJECTIVE:
To determine whether behavioral and neurochemical sensitization occur in healthy individuals after limited exposure to amphetamine in the laboratory.
DESIGN:
Open-label, 1-year follow-up of repeated amphetamine administration in healthy volunteers.
SETTING:
Department of Psychiatry, McGill University, and McConnell Brain Imaging Center, Montreal Neurological Institute.
PARTICIPANTS:
Ten healthy men (mean +/- SD age, 25.8 +/- 1.8 years).
INTERVENTION:
Three single doses of amphetamine (dextroamphetamine sulfate, 0.3 mg/kg by mouth) were administered on days 1, 3, and 5.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Using positron emission tomography and [11C]raclopride, we measured dopamine release in response to amphetamine on the first exposure (day 1) and 14 days and 1 year after the third exposure.
RESULTS:
The initial dose of amphetamine caused dopamine release in the ventral striatum (a reduction in [11C]raclopride binding). Consistent with a sensitization-like phenomenon, 14 and 365 days after the third dose of amphetamine there was a greater psychomotor response and increased dopamine release (a greater reduction in [11C]raclopride binding), relative to the initial dose, in the ventral striatum, progressively extending to the dorsal caudate and putamen. A high novelty-seeking personality trait and self-rating assessments indicating impulsivity predicted proneness to sensitization.
CONCLUSIONS:
Sensitization to stimulants can be achieved in healthy men in the laboratory. This phenomenon is associated with increased dopamine release and persists for at least 1 year.
***Clearnet***
Source
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17146013
***Clearnet***
I didn't understand, after taking meth 3 times a week for a year, their body was more sensitive to meth, or their overall dopamine production was increased?
"Three single doses of amphetamine (dextroamphetamine sulfate, 0.3 mg/kg by mouth) were administered on days 1, 3, and 5."
They took dextroamp on 3 days (days 1,3 and 5). The dose they took was 0,3mg/kg of body weight. This caused the test subjects to sensitize, thus needing less dextroamp to get the same psychomotor response than one would need without sensitization. The effect was still measurable after an year.
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Mad props for this article! i think your going to save lives with this
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Well right now I have a few concerns, mainly about the physical dangers of meth usage.
1: Recently, my friend(who has ADHD[which I believe is due to low dopamine levels] but also has a family history of schizophrenia[which I'm pretty is caused by high dopamine levels] took about 15mg of Lorazepam, and 140mg of Vyvanse, which led to him going into psychosis for nearly 16 hours. What should I make out of this?
2: What's the deal with meth mouth? There does seem to be any single underlying cause, but from what I've made out, is due to teeth grinding+corrosive properties of meth+dry mouth and no saliva+neglected hygiene. Can I completely circumvent meth mouth by making sure to brush my teeth at least once every few hours, taking my meth in an oral gel capsule, forcing myself to drink lots of fluids, and chewing gum to prevent teeth grinding?
3: I posted this in the meth review thread, but i realized it'd be more relevant here: Me just getting through High School in 21st century America, I've been exposed to a lot of anti-meth propaganda. I've seen plenty of "Before and after"s of supposedly five years of meth use. I'm sure you all know exactly what I'm talking about. What exactly is supposed to be behind the supposed accelerated physical aging? Heavy cigarette use to get through the meth comedowns? Clawing at your face? Lack of sleep? You know how respiration is actually destructive to cells? and how meth consumption is alot like overclocking the body? Anything to do with that?
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Well right now I have a few concerns, mainly about the physical dangers of meth usage.
1: Recently, my friend(who has ADHD[which I believe is due to low dopamine levels] but also has a family history of schizophrenia[which I'm pretty is caused by high dopamine levels] took about 15mg of Lorazepam, and 140mg of Vyvanse, which led to him going into psychosis for nearly 16 hours. What should I make out of this?
2: What's the deal with meth mouth? There does seem to be any single underlying cause, but from what I've made out, is due to teeth grinding+corrosive properties of meth+dry mouth and no saliva+neglected hygiene. Can I completely circumvent meth mouth by making sure to brush my teeth at least once every few hours, taking my meth in an oral gel capsule, forcing myself to drink lots of fluids, and chewing gum to prevent teeth grinding?
3: I posted this in the meth review thread, but i realized it'd be more relevant here: Me just getting through High School in 21st century America, I've been exposed to a lot of anti-meth propaganda. I've seen plenty of "Before and after"s of supposedly five years of meth use. I'm sure you all know exactly what I'm talking about. What exactly is supposed to be behind the supposed accelerated physical aging? Heavy cigarette use to get through the meth comedowns? Clawing at your face? Lack of sleep?
You are pretty much on the right trails about why the so called "meth mouth" is caused.
It is usually a problem of the users who smoke meth. It's due to some of the corrosive properties of the substance. The cut down on the production of saliva, teeth grinding, possibly vasoconstriction are all possible causes and/or work together to cause tooth decay. The main cause however is possibly the dry mouthness.
"It's a simple fact that having a dry mouth causes bad breath. It is probably not immediately obvious to many of us why this should be so, but the explanation makes sense when you think about it. Our mouths are being constantly bathed by saliva. It keeps the tissues moist and contains antibodies and enzymes that help fight off infection. It plays a key role in controlling the population of bacteria and other microorganisms that live in our mouths."
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Well right now I have a few concerns, mainly about the physical dangers of meth usage.
1: Recently, my friend(who has ADHD[which I believe is due to low dopamine levels] but also has a family history of schizophrenia[which I'm pretty is caused by high dopamine levels] took about 15mg of Lorazepam, and 140mg of Vyvanse, which led to him going into psychosis for nearly 16 hours. What should I make out of this?
Your friend should never take amphetamines ever, ever again. 140mg putting someone in a truly psychotic state for 16 hours is not good. I mean it's beyond not good, they're either hypersensitive due to an allergy of some kind or they're so close to psychotic to begin with that their brain cannot tolerate amphetamine use. If they continue to use amphetamines, it's going to be bad. They may develop schizophrenia anyway, but it will be worse and sooner if they take amphetamines I'm willing to bet.
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I've seen plenty of "Before and after"s of supposedly five years of meth use. I'm sure you all know exactly what I'm talking about. What exactly is supposed to be behind the supposed accelerated physical aging?
It should be called, "Faces of homelessness."
Far beyond the meth use these are people they pick up off skid row 5 years later. They could've been addicted to lollipops and puppy dogs, living that kind of lifestyle will take it's toll on you.
Plus like you said amphetamines speed up you bodyclock/metabolism like a mahf so if you aren't intelligent about it (i.e not eating/sleeping for 4 days straight, smoking cigarettes constantly, not taking vitamins) then yeah you will look pretty shittered pretty quick.
Also, I would never smoke my "meds" under any circumstances. If I really "need" that rush or drive I will snort a tiny bit with my oral dose to circumvent the come up
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Question for all y'all. How many days do you usually have to wait before you're back to functioning normally without meth?
I don't and haven't binged at all, just taken one very small key bump each day for about 4 days. I have noticed tiredness and distractability the following day, which eventually leads me to taking the same size bump to get myself to normal productive standards. I don't want to get caught in the dependency though, so how long should I set for myself in between usage?
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Fuckin FUCK!
I bought quite a lot of meth, and kinda just figured it was like coke, so I just took so much that I've been awake for about 72 hours, and I just want to sleep. I haven't eaten or drank much, and feel like I aged 10 years.
Why the fuck did I not read this first? Fuk.
I still have like 2 grams left.
How many mg's is the equivalent of the end of my Swiss army knife piled high with uncrushed crystal meth and mixed with coffee? And repeated about 4 times till my face turned yellow and my girlfriend thought I might die, and she didn't even know I took anything,
I think I took about a gram,maybe more, starting Fri afternoon till now. So how long before I can try the method op posted? Or am I fuct?
Cest la vie
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Fuckin FUCK!
I bought quite a lot of meth, and kinda just figured it was like coke, so I just took so much that I've been awake for about 72 hours, and I just want to sleep. I haven't eaten or drank much, and feel like I aged 10 years.
Why the fuck did I not read this first? Fuk.
I still have like 2 grams left.
How many mg's is the equivalent of the end of my Swiss army knife piled high with uncrushed crystal meth and mixed with coffee? And repeated about 4 times till my face turned yellow and my girlfriend thought I might die, and she didn't even know I took anything,
I think I took about a gram,maybe more, starting Fri afternoon till now. So how long before I can try the method op posted? Or am I fuct?
Cest la vie
First step: Stop doing more meth.
Second Step: Drink water and try to eat. If you can't eat, drink a protein shake.
Third Step: Take a multivitamin and omega 3-6-9 oils. LOTS OF VITAMIN C.
Fourth Step: Take a sleep aid. Benadryl if you don't have benzos. But yeah, get to sleep. Sleep for a day or so.
Fifth Step: Don't take more meth. Eat square meals and drink lots of water. Keep up the vitamin intake. Sleep. Do all the things you know you need to do to have a healthy body.
Sixth Step: Follow the OP's guide in the future.
Best of luck to you!
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Damn! this is going to be like five posts in one!
I've been messing around with the nasal spray idea, and I'm sad to report that the amount of water that comes out with each spray seems to rather unpredictable. Well, between 25ul and 40ul using one way of holding the spray bottle, and between 100ul and 130ul. And that's not even factoring in how much less might come out as the bottle depletes. Actually, the bottle depletion wont even be an issue considering how little 30ul is.
If I drop a huge rock in, and then decide I want my meth back in powder form, can I leave the meth water to evaporate without any of the meth evaporating?
Also, i asked something like this before, but I didn't feel like the response adequately answered my question: What's the water solubility of meth, and how much can possibly be dissolved in 30ul of water w/out it reaching it's saturation point?
ul=µl=microlitre
Question for all y'all. How many days do you usually have to wait before you're back to functioning normally without meth?
I don't and haven't binged at all, just taken one very small key bump each day for about 4 days. I have noticed tiredness and distractability the following day, which eventually leads me to taking the same size bump to get myself to normal productive standards. I don't want to get caught in the dependency though, so how long should I set for myself in between usage?
After my 3 day Adderall binge I had awhile ago similar to what mettiez is having, I slept for 12 hours, ate the best meal of my life, and spent the next 10 waking hours more tired than I would have been.
My friend and I were talking about if meth can be addictive if you're taking in the same way one would use an Adderall Rx, and he sent me this, which I thought was brilliant(though maybe not his spelling)
The thing about meth is just that one day you might say "man, if 30 mgs makes me productive, think about what i could do with 70 mgs!" And then you do, and from that point on it seems pointless to take 30 mgs because you know what 70 mgs is capable of. Pretty soon, you have a tolerance and need 80, then 100, by now you cant feel productive in any way unless you have meth in you system, and the slope gets steeper and slipperyer and you cant get the traction you need to slow yourself down. Then you run out, now life fucking sucks because theres no way to feel like anything your doing is good or worth the time it takes to do. Its like adhd x90. So you think "mabey ill just steal some stuff and sell it to get money to buy some more." So great, now you have more meth. You can be productive again, even if you have to take huge 200 mg doses to feel anything. But it doesnt matter, the stuff your doing makes you for. Boom. You run out again. "But how'd i run out so fast?" Well those huge doses used up your 7 gram rock pretty fast. But its ok, during your last binge you made enough money to buy more.
So great, now you have more meth. You can be productive again, even if you have to take huge 200 mg doses to feel anything. But it doesnt matter, the stuff your doing makes you for. Boom. You run out again. "But how'd i run out so fast?" Well those huge doses used up your 7 gram rock pretty fast. But its ok, during your last binge you made enough money to buy more. "But this time, ill shoot it up so i dont use up as much." Well the rush from shooting is so good, youll never go back to your old roa, and it barley uses up any meth either! By now your absolutly wasting away. You weigh <90 lbs and your face is covered with scars from picking at acne, but that doesnt matter, because organizing your cds by name, auther, and cross catagorizing by color and amount of scratches is wayyy more important than personal health. You stopped hanging out with your friends because you had "more important things to be doing." and "They're just distracting me from whats important". Now your not doing productive stuff when your on it, your just doing stuff to make sure youll have more but the time this dose wears off. Your starting to lose your mind. All the physical neglect coupled with forcing your body to spit out dopamine takes its toll on your brain. You think everyones out to get you, the police are gonna kick down your door at any minute. You go psycotic half the time you get high, and the axiety when the meth runs out is totally unberable. Not even the meth will make you happy, it will only hold off the anxiety and depression. Youve thrown your life any with no job, no friends, and no future. One day, your body cant take anymore. You havent eaten or slept in two weeks, and you have no energy. So you crawl into a corner and pass out, fatigue winning over meth. Only you dont wake up. No one will miss you. Your friends stopped calling you friend long ago, your family already assumed your dead, the only people who will be sad your gone are those who were making money keeping you high. But what do you care? Those were the best 8 months of your life.
I feel as though this thread hasn't made enough of an effort to talk about the effects of L-tyrosine, L-dopa, magnesium, or any other supplements that interact w/ meth or dopamine.
Wouldn't it be good to take aspirin w/ meth, since your heart will have an easier time pumping the thinned blood? I'm pretty sure thats why body builders use it with ephedrine.
I have been strongly considering this option as a way of assuring that I stick to safe levels of use.
This is a TIMED SAFE. It only allows access after X period of time which the owner sets before locking it.
CLEARNET LINK!
http://captureddiscipline.com/
It is $130 which is pretty cheap for the potential harm that this drug holds. It would work well for SR because of the length of time between ordering product and its delivery, it is easier to watch the safe and wait for it to open.
It would also be good for just about any other drug. I am not posting this for advertisement.
In theory it's genius but anyone that's had there in's and out's with this substance knows that it's just another road bump. You're on amphs, you now this safe won't open till tomorrow morning. So the next morning you end up weighing out a little extra, "ya know, for later, in case my workload gets too heavy." Before you know it you hide a 0.5 in the bathroom taped under the sink in case you "need a little extra" that your partner/conscience shouldn't know about :P
If you don't have the willpower to prevent yourself from taking "a little extra" each time, then you have absolutely no business fucking around with meth, or, for that matter, any drug harder than Claritin.
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No, it is NOT good to take aspirin with meth. Methamphetamine in small, clinical doses (sub-80mg or so a day) has little effect on your blood pressure (varies by person of course), but when you get past that it can quickly result in very high blood pressure. I've seen mine spike by 20+, once or twice in the middle of a run I've taken it and seen it at over 160/120. That's very high for just sitting around fucking with stuff.
Aspirin thins your blood. If a blood vessel bursts because of the higher blood pressure from amphetamine, your blood HAS to clot. But blood thinners suppress this, so basically you keep bleeding longer than you normally would. It's a "it can make a bad situation much worse," thing. It won't always hurt you, I mean I take aspirin on rare occasions... but it's definitely not something you want to do regularly.
I'm not going to argue either way here, but I'd also like to say this: if you think willpower alone is enough to not take a drug... I mean that you are in complete control of your actions, and through sheer willpower control them... then try this experiment: hold your breath until you pass out. You won't die, don't worry, your body will start breathing again once you're unconscious (it's good at that). But I'll bet you that you can't do it. Weird, huh?
Willpower alone isn't enough to overcome addiction.
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I have been strongly considering this option as a way of assuring that I stick to safe levels of use.
This is a TIMED SAFE. It only allows access after X period of time which the owner sets before locking it.
CLEARNET LINK!
http://captureddiscipline.com/
It is $130 which is pretty cheap for the potential harm that this drug holds. It would work well for SR because of the length of time between ordering product and its delivery, it is easier to watch the safe and wait for it to open.
It would also be good for just about any other drug. I am not posting this for advertisement.
In theory it's genius but anyone that's had there in's and out's with this substance knows that it's just another road bump. You're on amphs, you now this safe won't open till tomorrow morning. So the next morning you end up weighing out a little extra, "ya know, for later, in case my workload gets too heavy." Before you know it you hide a 0.5 in the bathroom taped under the sink in case you "need a little extra" that your partner/conscience shouldn't know about :P
If you don't have the willpower to prevent yourself from taking "a little extra" each time, then you have absolutely no business fucking around with meth, or, for that matter, any drug harder than Claritin.
Awe... you're cute. And naive. And it is very clear you are just starting to dabble with drugs. Aren't you the same guy that wanted to torture a cop in the woods for busting you for (probably) smoking pot in an alley or something? A grand display of self control and will power ::) get real, even if you were ever a teenager and smoked pot with your friends you'd know it's easy to go over board with any drug, smoking your bag in a few hours that was supposed to be for the week. If you've ever drank and gotten sick, if you've ever had two red bulls and got the shakes.
Don't be ignorant, kid.
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I'm not going to argue either way here, but I'd also like to say this: if you think willpower alone is enough to not take a drug... I mean that you are in complete control of your actions, and through sheer willpower control them... then try this experiment: hold your breath until you pass out. You won't die, don't worry, your body will start breathing again once you're unconscious (it's good at that). But I'll bet you that you can't do it. Weird, huh?
Willpower alone isn't enough to overcome addiction.
If you don't have the willpower to prevent yourself from taking "a little extra" each time, then you have absolutely no business fucking around with meth, or, for that matter, any drug harder than Claritin.
Awe... you're cute. And naive. And it is very clear you are just starting to dabble with drugs. Aren't you the same guy that wanted to torture a cop in the woods for busting you for (probably) smoking pot in an alley or something? A grand display of self control and will power ::) get real, even if you were ever a teenager and smoked pot with your friends you'd know it's easy to go over board with any drug, smoking your bag in a few hours that was supposed to be for the week. If you've ever drank and gotten sick, if you've ever had two red bulls and got the shakes.
Don't be ignorant, kid.
TK, I'm sure you're going to say I'm missing the point of what you said, but the self-control involved for that murder fantasy thing, and the self-control required to regulate your own dug use operate on different criteria. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say that the self control involved in self-regulating cannabis use and the self control to regulate your own meth use operate on different criteria. I agree, addiction to something like meth can easily be more powerful than the willpower of Andrew Ryan. But I'm just saying there's a limit to the addiction/willpower ratio that you should be over if you're messing around with hard drugs. I am a full advocate of the timed-safe idea. I'm just saying that you should take a look at your life, heavily reconsider your drug use, and really, realistically evaluate how addicted you are if you're not even capable of limiting yourself with a self-timing safe.
But you're right. I am somewhat new to drugs. Two years ago, the very concept made me shudder, and only very recently have I started seriously using any. How much could I possibly know?
No, it is NOT good to take aspirin with meth. Methamphetamine in small, clinical doses (sub-80mg or so a day) has little effect on your blood pressure (varies by person of course), but when you get past that it can quickly result in very high blood pressure. I've seen mine spike by 20+, once or twice in the middle of a run I've taken it and seen it at over 160/120. That's very high for just sitting around fucking with stuff.
Aspirin thins your blood. If a blood vessel bursts because of the higher blood pressure from amphetamine, your blood HAS to clot. But blood thinners suppress this, so basically you keep bleeding longer than you normally would. It's a "it can make a bad situation much worse," thing. It won't always hurt you, I mean I take aspirin on rare occasions... but it's definitely not something you want to do regularly.
Right, but how can a blood vessel burst from high blood pressure if you're taking a blood thinner that reduces blood pressure? and besides, I can't imagine Aspirin would be that significantly impairing to your blood clotting. I mean, it's a relatively potent blood thinner, but it's still not like it's hemophilia in pill form. Just don't make a chronic thing of it. Even if a blood vessel does burst, this is 2013 and you probably live in a first world country. You'll be ok.
Also, don't think I'm just ignoring what you said. I can see a lot of truth in it. I mean, I know there's a reason why the EC stack has overtaken the ECA stack in popularity, in recent times. But so many people use Aspirin so often that I don't think it's nearly as dangerous as you're making it out to be.
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Question for all y'all. How many days do you usually have to wait before you're back to functioning normally without meth?
I don't and haven't binged at all, just taken one very small key bump each day for about 4 days. I have noticed tiredness and distractability the following day, which eventually leads me to taking the same size bump to get myself to normal productive standards. I don't want to get caught in the dependency though, so how long should I set for myself in between usage?
After my 3 day Adderall binge I had awhile ago similar to what mettiez is having, I slept for 12 hours, ate the best meal of my life, and spent the next 10 waking hours more tired than I would have been.
But you didn't really answer my question though... "/
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after a good binge 2 days is all it takes me to forget the whole fucking thing with no aches or pains left
that shit is a godam beast it's the best for a diet it makes the foods sickening but you have to force yourself to eat and drink
or the fucking muscle cramping will kill you. It's really hardcore stuff I would not use it long-term
it's fuel and there are times when fuel is needed but it don't make a lot of sense. The more you do then the more you end up doing the tolerance builds rapidly but if I snort or eat 100 mg then it's game on for two days at least and I'm talking about assholes and elbows working like a dog non stop "get it" style
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I'm in a bad way right now. Although not strictly methamphetamine related, I figure I'd probably get decent info from this thread over any others.
I take dexamphetamine 25-40mg daily and have done so for the past few years. About 10 days ago I ran out, no possibility of getting a script due to extremely high waiting times to see a psych in aus. I have 3 orders for speed coming through but with variability of Aus shipping times, they could take anywhere from a week to a month to get here.
Since I ran out I've been going through pretty bad withdrawals, sleeping 16 hours a day, can't focus on anything, 24/7 migraine, and I am pretty much constantly irritable/frustrated. It's gotten to the point where I usually just take 2mg midazolam as soon as I wake up and try to sleep the day away.
Is there any better ways of dealing with it? Given my somewhat low dosage I didn't expect it to hit me quite this hard so I wasn't prepared in any way for the brutal come down I'm now experiencing.
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Well right now I have a few concerns, mainly about the physical dangers of meth usage.
1: Recently, my friend(who has ADHD[which I believe is due to low dopamine levels] but also has a family history of schizophrenia[which I'm pretty is caused by high dopamine levels] took about 15mg of Lorazepam, and 140mg of Vyvanse, which led to him going into psychosis for nearly 16 hours. What should I make out of this?
2: What's the deal with meth mouth? There does seem to be any single underlying cause, but from what I've made out, is due to teeth grinding+corrosive properties of meth+dry mouth and no saliva+neglected hygiene. Can I completely circumvent meth mouth by making sure to brush my teeth at least once every few hours, taking my meth in an oral gel capsule, forcing myself to drink lots of fluids, and chewing gum to prevent teeth grinding?
3: I posted this in the meth review thread, but i realized it'd be more relevant here: Me just getting through High School in 21st century America, I've been exposed to a lot of anti-meth propaganda. I've seen plenty of "Before and after"s of supposedly five years of meth use. I'm sure you all know exactly what I'm talking about. What exactly is supposed to be behind the supposed accelerated physical aging? Heavy cigarette use to get through the meth comedowns? Clawing at your face? Lack of sleep? You know how respiration is actually destructive to cells? and how meth consumption is alot like overclocking the body? Anything to do with that?
So I went to the dentist recently. Saw an Xray of MY face. Less than 2 months of use. I thought I was being liberal about my intake, drinking enough water, and taking enough vitamins. I was wrong. The nurse looked at it for another reason but mumbled that the area which appeared to be my top gums was darker than usual. She commented that it must be less dense than the other cartilage such as my lower gums. She had nothing bad to say about my teeth. I feel like it is logical to assume that lack of saliva would impact the upper gums first, as it does not pool saliva the bottom lip does.
I brush my teeth twice every day as well as flossing.
I think one of the main things about keeping teeth clean while smoking is rinsing out the mouth between puffs, to saturate and clean the mouth.
I have smoked very little. The nose is where it goes.
I have no evidence to support that this was caused by meth use, but it does make me worry.
*Brushing too often causes gums to recede, so I would not recommend brushing every few hours.*
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I'm just saying that you should take a look at your life, heavily reconsider your drug use, and really, realistically evaluate how addicted you are if you're not even capable of limiting yourself with a self-timing safe.
Read my original post.. I said nothing about not being able to regulate myself you silly goose, I was warning others about the mentality associated with addiction.
I don't need a time release safe because I don't "need" meth. I haven't taken my stimulants in a little over 2 weeks(MDMA) because my workload has significantly reduced (it does in the winter) and I probably won't need any well into the spring. I used to take dexedrine but my boyfriends healthcare ran out, so I made the switch. So it would be more realistic to say I am no interested in a time lock safe because it is incredibly pointless in my scenario. By this same logic I might get a time lock on my garage to keep me from buying junk food at night? No, total overkill. Not to mention I'm not having 3 day addy binges (oh my god intervention! intervention! ::) ) so why are you lecturing me about addiction, on a drug forum no doubt?
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I'm in a bad way right now. Although not strictly methamphetamine related, I figure I'd probably get decent info from this thread over any others.
I take dexamphetamine 25-40mg daily and have done so for the past few years. About 10 days ago I ran out, no possibility of getting a script due to extremely high waiting times to see a psych in aus. I have 3 orders for speed coming through but with variability of Aus shipping times, they could take anywhere from a week to a month to get here.
Since I ran out I've been going through pretty bad withdrawals, sleeping 16 hours a day, can't focus on anything, 24/7 migraine, and I am pretty much constantly irritable/frustrated. It's gotten to the point where I usually just take 2mg midazolam as soon as I wake up and try to sleep the day away.
Is there any better ways of dealing with it? Given my somewhat low dosage I didn't expect it to hit me quite this hard so I wasn't prepared in any way for the brutal come down I'm now experiencing.
What I would suggest is eating as much as you can, drinking lots of water, taking multivitamins, fish oil, and l-tyrosine. If you have to focus on stuff, I'd suggest taking a 5-hour energy to help you get some stuff done. Magnesium is also a helpful supplement. Stay away from taking too many benzos, as they can increase (at least they do for me) the ADHD symptoms. I only take benzos on certain nights where I absolutely have to and even then I make sure to wean myself off of them. Always be wary, always be afraid of addiction.
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But you didn't really answer my question though... "/
I know, that's the best I could do. Although one day was all I needed.
I'm just saying that you should take a look at your life, heavily reconsider your drug use, and really, realistically evaluate how addicted you are if you're not even capable of limiting yourself with a self-timing safe.
Read my original post.. I said nothing about not being able to regulate myself you silly goose, I was warning others about the mentality associated with addiction.
I don't need a time release safe because I don't "need" meth. I haven't taken my stimulants in a little over 2 weeks(MDMA) because my workload has significantly reduced (it does in the winter) and I probably won't need any well into the spring. I used to take dexedrine but my boyfriends healthcare ran out, so I made the switch. So it would be more realistic to say I am no interested in a time lock safe because it is incredibly pointless in my scenario. By this same logic I might get a time lock on my garage to keep me from buying junk food at night? No, total overkill. Not to mention I'm not having 3 day addy binges (oh my god intervention! intervention! ::) ) so why are you lecturing me about addiction, on a drug forum no doubt?
We seem to be talking on completely different levels here. I was trying to specifically refer to you AT ALL. I was talking about just people in general. What I meant was that if you're messing around with hard drugs, know your mind, and know how much willpower you have. Use this knowledge to make appropriate measures.
I've actually spent the last 24 hours or so on what could arguably be called my first meth binge. and HOLY SHIT, have I gained a new respect for this drug. I mean, I'm pretty well used to the effects of Adderall, but damn! A powerful substance in every respect of the word. You play with fire, you can cook stuff, you can light up dark areas, you can heat up your house. and can also burn yourself, or you can burn an entire forest down.
No fucking wonder there's such a colossal anti-meth campaign. "Not even once" makes a lot more sense now. That initial high dose really was a "fruit of knowledge". I thought keeping yourself from not redosing when you shouldn't was just a matter of willpower. I never would have expected that it would change your active, conscience decision making. Willpower can't make less a difference when the meth convinces your inner monologue that redosing is a GOOD idea. I can't imagine how hard it would be to fight that temptation on a high smoked or IVed dose, even if you knew it was the bad decision. Fucking Andrew Ryan(I know I already used this example a few posts ago)from Bioshock wouldn't have enough willpower to resist that temptation if he was in the presence of a supply.
Right now, I don't even have any sort of appreciation for what I was just feeling a few hours ago. If it weren't for that my brain forced me to rehearse all this information while I was peaking, and for that I'm looking at this erratic, jerky journal of phrases and words I wrote at the time, I would have no conscience memory of just how powerful the energy was that was going through my mind, just a few hours ago.
If it weren't for all the posts I've read on this thread, the cautious, very back part of my brain never would have been able to pick up on the signs that my binge was starting to get out of control. Even then, I still had to acknowledge that it was correct, not paranoid, and even then, I still had to have the willpower to abstain from a redose. I consider myself lucky for realizing this pattern so early in my meth career. This 3.5g bag of mine just got a LOT scarier. Meth really is an awful, wonderfully horrible, amazing drug.
Full experience report coming within the next few days!
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Bynter, me and you are in the same place, I got a 3.5 bag, and really I'm afraid of it now. I tried taking a tiny bit today after finally getting some sleep and it just gave me a little taste of who and where and what I was when I was tweaking 2 days ago... It was like I was someone else, and not in the same way any other drug has felt.
I'm still weirder out by my experience. It wasn't fun, it was scary, and dark... The first time I took it, about 2 months ago, I totally enjoyed it, but that was a .25 bag that I used conservatively and even shared close to half. For some reason this time I forgot that when you crush it and snort it, you use less because crushing it increases its size. Anyway this time I just scooped like a half gram in some coffee and went directly into a really dark and intense place, and stayed there for 3 days I think?
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Thanks for sharing guys. I have less than 1 gram in my possession right now and I haven't done more than probably 150 mg(?) of it over about 2 weeks :o and I'm already questioning whether I can control myself. Maybe I'm overly paranoid, maybe I'm not. But I sure hope you guys take care and flush the stuff if need be. I know I've been considering the possibility if I find myself in a bad/negative direction as a result of the meth. Make sure you're getting SOMETHING positive out of it. Like something real, that sober, non-meth people will appreciate. Anyways, keep safe bynter, you sound like a cool guy. Don't lose yourself to evil crystals. If it comes to it, we'll flush together. :)
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Don't flush, send to me.
Seriously.
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Lol ok, Mecca, I'll put it in a public drop spot and give you the GPS coordinates and you can pick it up :)
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Anyways, keep safe bynter, you sound like a cool guy. Don't lose yourself to evil crystals. If it comes to it, we'll flush together. :)
The thought of getting rid of my bag is about as scary as the bag itself, since I got it after signing up for seven classes, and I signed up for seven classes anticipating having a semester supply's worth of meth.
I think the best strategy here is to pre-measure the meth into 10 or 15 mg capsules, and make a self limit of two a day. If you can't have a self limit of two a day, make a self limit of three a day, but whatever you do, don't break the limit you set for yourself! If you do, You'll find yourself doing it more and more frequently, and before you know it, the goals you set will carry absolutely no value.
Anyways, I was digging through my history, and I found two threads I made during my three day Adderall binge I had a while back, and I think you'd be interested in these reads. Turns out, it was a lot more hardcore than I remember. They adequately serve the purpose of a experience journal, and a experience report, respectively:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=25727.0
and
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=25842.msg277583#msg277583
Wow. In retrospect, that second one was really interesting to read. The writing style says more than the info I was trying to communicate.
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Very interesting.
Best of luck with your 7 classes! I have to write a novel (literally) by the end of the semester :)
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Lol ok, Mecca, I'll put it in a public drop spot and give you the GPS coordinates and you can pick it up :)
How about i just give you my address lol. and money for shipment.
seriously.
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So I've been thinking about L-Tyrosine. Now I've really bad things about combing L-Tyrosine and meth, people saying, "It's too much", but what if It's just like 5mg of meth? What about Magnesium?
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So I've been thinking about L-Tyrosine. Now I've really bad things about combing L-Tyrosine and meth, people saying, "It's too much", but what if It's just like 5mg of meth? What about Magnesium?
I use L-Tyrosine, but I never take it at dose time or during the time that I'm on meth or any amphetamine for that matter. I take the L-Tyrosine before I got to sleep, that way my brain has all the dopamine and what-have-you stored up for when I take the amphetamine. I've heard that if you take them at the same time, it can just cause extra unwanted stimulation and create some of the more agitated/jittery side-effects.
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Forgive me for the double post everyone, I just thought I'd share my most recent development with regards to my methamphetamine use. After taking about four days off (no meth at all, but continuing with vyvanse prescribed dosage schedule) I decided to try meth one more time before deciding that it was too dangerous for me. This time, I tried the oral route instead of insufflation, which I had been doing before.
Granted, even when I tried using meth via insufflation, I made sure I dosed only once and I was only doing about a matchstick head's worth. This time, I followed two rules for the experiment: (1) Dose orally without vyvanse or any other form of dextroamphetamine and (2) do not redose.
I put about two small keybumps worth into a gelatin capsule (in the past I was doing 1 keybump and stopping) because I know that the oral bio-availability drops to 50% or something like that. I took the capsule after eating a good breakfast and found that I had very smooth, sustained stimulation throughout the day. In fact, I never noticed when it wore off to be honest. I would not, however, suggest that this be done daily or with any level of frequency, but I think that it can definitely be useful and quite effective when used in this manner. Also, I have come to the conclusion that it might just be better for people to stick to dextroamphetamine. It's (more) legal, easily obtainable, and works almost exactly the same at low doses, which is what I want it for anyways. Yes, meth has more recreational value because the euphoria is much more pleasurable than dextro's. So if you're looking to go to tweak heaven, then meth is your answer. Or maybe MDPV. But for me, the comedowns are definitely not worth the high. So I will settle for what's in between.
I hope this is helpful to someone :)
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It is good to read all you guys doing meth for a semester workload fulcrum.
I 'played' for the first time last year, I was at the time a crazy old man of fifty! I had a South East Asian hooker of thirty who was my muse and supplier. I would pay the bills and she would show up with the pipe and re-hydration until I had to fly out (I was doing it on business trips).
I miss it.
I hope I never am insane enough to finalize on it on SR. I think the SEA stuff was low quality compared to what is on SR and I would be lost. I don't even want to watch the seasons of Breaking Bad on my HDD in case I get turned on to using again.
One night me and the girl were going to double our dose -up until then we were sharing a point a night. She got scammed by her dealer, but the scam was set up in such a way that we could not be sure LEO were involved, so we had to ditch our plans entirely, and I sent her home. Maybe that scam saved my life, I don't know, and I'm not here to lecture, just know when to pull the pin on this one guys, for the love of heaven...
Another guy my age had his life hijacked for seven years on this stuff. He is five years clean now, and there is never going to be a time when he can do ANYTHING in case it leads back to meth. You may have to throw away an entire life of using by design, just for the sake of bare-backing the witch called Tina for a few nightmarish years and that's if you're lucky.
The OP saying 'just don't binge' is like Nancy fucking Reagan saying 'Just say no'. It's a nice theory, ain't gonna happen in most cases, it won't in mine, are y'all honest enough with yourselves?
m.
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It is good to read all you guys doing meth for a semester workload fulcrum.
;D ;D I laughed at the way you phrased that! I would like to say, however, that I have decided that I will not be using meth often at all, since I am afraid of dependency and chemical alteration of my brain. I have a suspicion that dextroamphetamine does not as strongly re-route the dopamine system in the brain and I actually have a script for that.
The OP saying 'just don't binge' is like Nancy fucking Reagan saying 'Just say no'. It's a nice theory, ain't gonna happen in most cases, it won't in mine, are y'all honest enough with yourselves?
I think I am. I am very focused on what I am doing academically, socially, and physically. There is alot in my future resting on the present, and this is the primary cause of my control. If a drug is causing more problems than solving them, I have no problem setting it aside. Sure, I'd love to blow a line of meth. But then I think of the consequences. The time commitment. I don't have that kind of time to spend on a meth comedown. And I don't have the time to be tweaked out either haha. So I'll settle for not getting tweaked, and only use it in the ways that I know it will benefit me. It's also strange that I only really get the urge to take more stimulants when my medication (vyvanse) wears off. And at that point it's too late to take stims...I'll be up all night! So I figure as long as I keep taking my meds and have rational goals in my life I am able to be rational about meth use. Ok done rambling about how I'm not going to get addicted to meth. Only time will tell but I'm pretty confident I'm doing fine.
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... I am very focused on what I am doing academically, socially, and physically. There is alot in my future resting on the present, and this is the primary cause of my control. If a drug is causing more problems than solving them, I have no problem setting it aside. Sure, I'd love to blow a line of meth. But then I think of the consequences.... I figure as long as I keep taking my meds and have rational goals in my life I am able to be rational about meth use. Ok done rambling about how I'm not going to get addicted to meth. Only time will tell but I'm pretty confident I'm doing fine.
In all honesty, I wish you well in this, I wish that the OP was right in his theory, maybe he is, maybe my sharing point doses over a period of a month or two worked in my favor,. Here's the thing with me, call me 'unintelligent' but I don't think 'intelligence' has jack shit to do with binge responses, the OP seems to think binge'ers are stupid. By the OP's definition then, risk (binge) behavior is stupid, but all behavior carries risk, without exception, so it's a disingenuous argument.
I frequently binge on something as low-tech as poppers, because there is a 'space' if you will, in a popper high were I have found I can hit euphoria, but it takes way too much, and I waste hours, and it is VERY hit & miss, so I just don't want to be my own guinea pig and go there with meth knowing meth will do it for me EVERY TIME, until it doesn't...
The price for a 'failed experiment' is too high.
I am glad the OP shared his theory, if it helps the world use meth without addictive consequences, that's great!
I'll watch this space, and then maybe reconsider my own position, but to use the data as an excuse to approach this chemical again, knowing how close I came to being hooked in the guts, that, IMO, IS stupid.
I am not a user who believes in drug propaganda, I have heard, felt, loved, the Siren-song that is meth course through my body like the orgasms of Angels, and it scares me shitless.
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I'll watch this space, and then maybe reconsider my own position, but to use the data as an excuse to approach this chemical again, knowing how close I came to being hooked in the guts, that, IMO, IS stupid.
I am not a user who believes in drug propaganda, I have heard, felt, loved, the Siren-song that is meth course through my body like the orgasms of Angels, and it scares me shitless.
And I think this is a very good reason for you to continue abstaining from meth. I personally enjoyed the high that it gave me when I took a reasonable sized dose intranasally, but for me that high was not worth the issues that I dealt with during the comedown. I've come to recognize meth now not as a quick portal to euphoria or pleasure, but rather as a very efficient and effective tool to increase cognitive and physical capacities. In order to accomplish these functions, low non-binge doses have to be implemented. Binging, in fact, produces the opposite results.
This is the way that I think of it: there are some people that are able to grow to the point where they realize that it really is best and most enjoyable to only drink a certain amount when they go out at night. When I go out, for example, I only drink about two drinks. I get a nice buzz, feel social, maybe dance a bit and then go home and drink water, and eat something. I've binged on alcohol before, gotten drunk, wasted, and even plastered. But I've decided that I most enjoy getting the nice, mildly euphoric buzz off the first two drinks. There are little consequences when alcohol is experienced this way. This is the general idea that society tells us about drinking. However, you have your alcoholics who just can't stop. It's not their fault, they just can't help it. And I don't blame or judge them. I do, however, think it is their responsibility to stay the FUCK away from alcohol. If you know you have a problem, don't poke sticks at it.
Now relate this analogy to meth. It surely would be NICE (in my mind) to take a large quantity of meth and go WHEEEEE all the way to tweakerland and euphoria heaven. However, the reality is that doing so will only result in an increased level of suffering on my part. The comedown (which is like the hungover effect from alcohol that leaves you heaving over the toilet) is directly proportional to the high. So why not be able to enjoy the subtle enhancing effects of the drug without major consequences? A "responsible" (to use the terminology from this thread) user will be able to see this inherent problem with meth binges and react accordingly. An addict, however, (quite like the alcoholic) will have some trouble seeing that there is any other way to use the drug besides the binges. The addict is unable to change his usage patterns and therefore should not be using the drug as the drug is no longer a tool of production, it is now a tool of self-destruction.
I believe that all forms of reckless abandoned debauchery are self-destructive. Sometimes self-destruction is necessary in life. It somehow brings us face-to-face with our humanity and with our own mortality. But when your main goal and focus in life IS to self-destruct, well then here we might have an issue. In this mode of living, not only does the self-destructive individual suffer (later on, not during the destruction process), but so do all the people that this individual has connections with. It's similarly as selfish as suicide.
tl;dr- If you can use a drug in moderation, do so. If you can't, it's probably best not to use that drug. Sometimes it's okay to binge. Sometimes you just have to be a part of an orgy. So long as you don't make that the main focus of your life. Because then you will hurt not only yourself, but also those around you.
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Remember that big melodramatic post I made a page or so back about my first meth binge? I took 30mg intranasl, I was so amphed up I couldn't look straight ahead of me for more than five seconds because I was so busy shaking my head from all the energy & tearing up my house looking for one thing of chapistick. but that was then....
But today.....
So I've been binging for about 36 hours(doses was never more than 10mg oral at a time, sometimes just 5)because I've NEEDED to do homework. and a few hours ago I started to get sleepy, & I was just about to begin "the big essay", so I took 20mg intranasally. A short while later, my mouth got kinda dry for like a half hour, and that was it.
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Just make sure you plan for when you get to rest :)
Oh, and don't forget yr vitamins, food, magnesium and such! ;)
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AHA! It all makes sense now! Shortly after I insulated the 20mg and I kind-of felt the effects: Well, that was the 5mg capsule I had taken a few hours before, and it was finally kicking in. I just recently felt a rush, and that could have only been from the twenty mgs I had taken prior. It appears my body is is extremely efficient, yet slow at processing amphetamines. I felt the effects of 70mg Vyvance 18 hours I had taken it, for God's sake!
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@Zipstyle
Thanks for a well-thought out post. I am indeed an addictive personality, I have been a heavy drinker for years, and have been drunk many many times countless in fact. Since about august, I stopped the booze, went dry for seven weeks and have been very moderate since, hardly anything over the holiday season. I'd rather be drugging anyhow.
This year, I need to get my shit together, I'm between projects, as people say, and need an income stream soon, I have a few months worth of coasting in the bank, but still... why say that? Well, I have been drug free since mid May 2012, and I'm just indulging this slow January with some old (and new) chems before setting them aside for the weekends, while I get busy earning, but yeah in the last 11 days I have pigged out, and this is my first clean night in that time, can you see the issue I have might with our girlfriend Tina?
I did meth back in 2011 to have nasty sex, and I did. But I have to walk away and keep walking cos I mix sex up with drugs in a binge-y way, and that in itself is a bad self-destructive habit I need to be looking at.
@Bynter,
easy, brother... I can tell you're tweaked all to fuck with the way you're skipping words and the like in your last posts, how's the essay reading in sobriety? Are you back on the planet yet? :) take care dude, seriously.
OK thanks everyone, I'm leaving this thread now. I came because I was hopeful I could use Meth again, but I have looked inside of me and know it is not in my best interest. I'm glad I got to do it once and even more glad I got to walk away.
I know if a sexual partner (in particular) ever offered it, I'd probably take it.
m.
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@Zipstyle
Thanks for a well-thought out post. I am indeed an addictive personality, I have been a heavy drinker for years, and have been drunk many many times countless in fact. Since about august, I stopped the booze, went dry for seven weeks and have been very moderate since, hardly anything over the holiday season. I'd rather be drugging anyhow.
This year, I need to get my shit together, I'm between projects, as people say, and need an income stream soon, I have a few months worth of coasting in the bank, but still... why say that? Well, I have been drug free since mid May 2012, and I'm just indulging this slow January with some old (and new) chems before setting them aside for the weekends, while I get busy earning, but yeah in the last 11 days I have pigged out, and this is my first clean night in that time, can you see the issue I have might with our girlfriend Tina?
I did meth back in 2011 to have nasty sex, and I did. But I have to walk away and keep walking cos I mix sex up with drugs in a binge-y way, and that in itself is a bad self-destructive habit I need to be looking at.
@Bynter,
easy, brother... I can tell you're tweaked all to fuck with the way you're skipping words and the like in your last posts, how's the essay reading in sobriety? Are you back on the planet yet? :) take care dude, seriously.
OK thanks everyone, I'm leaving this thread now. I came because I was hopeful I could use Meth again, but I have looked inside of me and know it is not in my best interest. I'm glad I got to do it once and even more glad I got to walk away.
I know if a sexual partner (in particular) ever offered it, I'd probably take it.
m.
Hey m, thanks for your contribution. I think you are smart to think out what it is that you are undertaking, a think-before-you-leap mentality. I wish you all the best :)
And I do agree on your thoughts for bynter, I also wish him the same.
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I'm in a bad way right now. Although not strictly methamphetamine related, I figure I'd probably get decent info from this thread over any others.
I take dexamphetamine 25-40mg daily and have done so for the past few years. About 10 days ago I ran out, no possibility of getting a script due to extremely high waiting times to see a psych in aus. I have 3 orders for speed coming through but with variability of Aus shipping times, they could take anywhere from a week to a month to get here.
Since I ran out I've been going through pretty bad withdrawals, sleeping 16 hours a day, can't focus on anything, 24/7 migraine, and I am pretty much constantly irritable/frustrated. It's gotten to the point where I usually just take 2mg midazolam as soon as I wake up and try to sleep the day away.
Is there any better ways of dealing with it? Given my somewhat low dosage I didn't expect it to hit me quite this hard so I wasn't prepared in any way for the brutal come down I'm now experiencing.
I am truly sorry, my friend, but I know of absolutely no way this can be avoided. It gets worse the longer you (ab)use daily. If you have to stay awake for work or something, any stim you can get where you are can help. But it's not going to make it go away. Nothing makes it go away except getting more amphetamine.
I'll even take sudafed, several caffeine pills, drink a few cups of coffee, and pop something with yohimbe as soon as I wake up if I'm in a really bad way and can't afford to be. It at least keeps me awake, even if I end up fucking up whatever I had to do anyway. My sleeping usually regulates itself within 3-4 days of running out, but the other things stay for weeks. I've never gone longer than 2 or so, but they were getting steadily better, I'll say that much. I'm sure it would continue improving until I adjusted, and you would too if you choose to. It's always an option, even if it hardly looks like one.
Apologies for being a week late with this, but I didn't see it and I really am sorry you have to go through it. It's just part of the price of daily amphetamine use. Unless you end up losing everything to addiction, I'd even say it may actually be the worst price... sleeping for a few days I can handle, but the restlessness and boredom is enough to drive me to tears. Literally sometimes.
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Just thought I would share these other threads of interest to people looking through this thread for advice/tips regarding meth and stimulant use:
Guide (Tips) to Avoiding Drug Dependence
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=106709.0
A Complete (Personal) Review on the Moderate Use of Stimulants
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=105104.0
Aches, pain, soreness from meth use
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=104630.0
Is meth a useful tool for anything?
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=90979.msg640122#msg640122
Meth vs Amphetamine vs MDPV - What's the difference (in low dosages)?
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=92188.msg649776#msg649776
Hope these are useful to those looking for more information. Great thread! Props to all those that helped establish this knowledge base.
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I believe d-meth causes much more serotonin to be released than d-amp. If true could this cause damage to the serotonin system in the same way that MDMA is believed to cause it?
see Part II: Neurotoxicity for info on how repeated/high dose MDMA use damages the serotonin system
http://dancesafe.org/drug-information/ecstasy-slideshow
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Can someone explain me why meth is destroying most people's bodies in less than a year?
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Can someone explain me why meth is destroying most people's bodies in less than a year?
In less than 4 months of very reasonable yet abusive meth use, averaging 30 mg/day, I have found significant damage. Though not life threatening, they are long term, if not permanent.
I think the main reason it is so destructive is that all forms of administering the drug have serious side effects. The nose easily sheds its mucus membrane after constant abuse, leading to much more serious issues. Smoking puts all of the chemicals into your lungs, and the dry mouth causes gums to recede even with very careful oral care. Swallowing is the safest route, but often people get bored with it. IV is theoretically safe but has many ways to kill the user. People become addicted to the process which goes with their drug of choice, weather its the burn of the line, the smoke billowing out of their mouth, the needle in their arm, or watching the crystal melt and begin to feed you pleasure.
One of the other attributes is the lack of sleep. When we sleep is when our body heals itself. By refusing to sleep, your body becomes unable to do any maintenance. This results in a weak immune system and a weak body in general. To add to the issue, few people addicted to meth take proper supplements and vitamins to help stay healthy.
There are many ways the body takes wear and tear but nothing is worse than running ones heart on overdrive for many waking hours of their life. Heart disease is the number one cause of death in the U.S. There is not one thing that can be pointed to as the cause of destruction, it is the whole mentality and action which causes the bodily harm. Also, everybody has a different body, which can endure different levels of abuse.
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True or false for any smokers, does meth actually crystallize in your lungs when you hold in the smoke too long? If true/false what's the best way to smoke it?
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Thx everybody who contribites to this thread. It helped me in my decision to NEVER score meth to even try it.
I love the magical 6 as cited by A. Shulgin: LSD, MDMA, 2c-b, Mescaline, Shrooms, DMT
I will never again for the bad 3: Meth, Heroin, Cocaine
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I have snorted cocaine a couple of times and to be honest I have no idea why is it so addicting for other people. Coke high is just not 'that' good, and compared to lighter drugs I've tried it is just isn't worth it.
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Thx everybody who contribites to this thread. It helped me in my decision to NEVER score meth to even try it.
I love the magical 6 as cited by A. Shulgin: LSD, MDMA, 2c-b, Mescaline, Shrooms, DMT
I will never again for the bad 3: Meth, Heroin, Cocaine
Funny, after dosing on acid, xtc or shroom, I feel absolutely hit afterwards. We're not talking about 3 day binges, just single dose.
Speed/Coke on the other hand, with anything shy of a 24+ hour bender, and I feel good to go :) H does nothing for me but make my head swooshy feeling, like an internal curly swirly or something.
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Funny, after dosing on acid, xtc or shroom, I feel absolutely hit afterwards. We're not talking about 3 day binges, just single dose.
Lsd will destroy me if I don't have benzos on hand. Like, 3 days later without sleep crying in a bus shelter destroyed. Where as I could take a line of coke before work and have no problems (not that I would).
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I had a special 'hotel safe' custom modified for myself like so; You throw your stash in the safe, set a timer (from 10 mins to 7 days) and the box locks until the time passes. I wonder if there would be a market for these on SR? (it was rather expensive..)
This allows you to plan your drug use to optimal schedules and stick to it without doing battle with your mind ;)
I do battle with my mind every damned day.
I've never had to binge on meth to be forced into that position. Heh.
Meth seems very interesting. I see that it can be done twice a week at moderated dosages without ill effect.
I'll definitely have to try this.
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Meth is quite interesting. I think it requires a great deal of self control and awareness regarding use, but if used properly and sparingly, meth can help you do wonders that might have been just out of your reach in the past. Just don't think you can be superman every day ;)
I constantly feel a slight bit of anxiety regarding my meth use but I think that's healthy and is what keeps me from spending all my time and energy on getting and using meth.
Great clearnet link to a user's thoughts on meth (and lots of other things).
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/642331-%28Methamphetamine-IV-110-mg-Alcohol-6-beers%29-Very-Experienced-quot-I-m-tired-quot
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Great clearnet link to a user's thoughts on meth (and lots of other things).
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/642331-%28Methamphetamine-IV-110-mg-Alcohol-6-beers%29-Very-Experienced-quot-I-m-tired-quot
I can't... read that. You're right though. It's very good. It's very raw. I wish I hadn't looked at it...
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The only meth I do is in my rolls or E pills, but +1 for doing your HW and accurately informing the community.
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Great clearnet link to a user's thoughts on meth (and lots of other things).
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/642331-%28Methamphetamine-IV-110-mg-Alcohol-6-beers%29-Very-Experienced-quot-I-m-tired-quot
I can't... read that. You're right though. It's very good. It's very raw. I wish I hadn't looked at it...
Sorry SS! Didn't mean to cause you distress :(
I ended up reading the entire thing, including part 2. There are just some priceless reflections going on in there. I definitely would never consider living that way, but I think that at the very least it serves as someone who's doing that so that others don't have to? Idk. I hope to write like him some day (obviously not about the same topic).
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Great clearnet link to a user's thoughts on meth (and lots of other things).
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/642331-%28Methamphetamine-IV-110-mg-Alcohol-6-beers%29-Very-Experienced-quot-I-m-tired-quot
I can't... read that. You're right though. It's very good. It's very raw. I wish I hadn't looked at it...
Sorry SS! Didn't mean to cause you distress :(
I ended up reading the entire thing, including part 2. There are just some priceless reflections going on in there. I definitely would never consider living that way, but I think that at the very least it serves as someone who's doing that so that others don't have to? Idk. I hope to write like him some day (obviously not about the same topic).
No worries, bro... it just... it totally wrecked my mood for several hours. Too much like a mirror. I know it would be me if I ever let myself use needles -- I don't ever want to know what that feels like, because I'd never come back.
Sometimes truth is uncomfortable; no big deal :)
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SelfSovereignty you are my hero. I hate the way some people on here sensationalize meth. I like you're general attitude about it. If you have a free minute somewhere you should PM which vendor you use <3 I trust your judgement and will have to pick up sooner or later :)
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SelfSovereignty you are my hero. I hate the way some people on here sensationalize meth. I like you're general attitude about it. If you have a free minute somewhere you should PM which vendor you use <3 I trust your judgement and will have to pick up sooner or later :)
I do hope I'm staying away from the sensationalism you're referring to here. I would kinda hate to be doing that inadvertently.
All the best :)
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Not at all zipstyle, there's a marked difference in being intelligible and staying positive, to flat out trying to justifying smoking a quarter gram of ice a day :P
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Ah, quite true. Thanks for clearing that up :)
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Am I the only one that noticed bynter's sudden disappearance from the thread? :(
I also found out today that either I have an insane tolerance for this stuff or the vendor I bought from was bunk :(
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Am I the only one that noticed bynter's sudden disappearance from the thread? :(
I also found out today that either I have an insane tolerance for this stuff or the vendor I bought from was bunk :(
No, you're not the only one.
And I doubt it was outright fake, to be honest. It may be incredibly weak, but actually getting 100% fake meth is an awfully rare thing on SR. Too many quality vendors providing too much competition.
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It may be incredibly weak, but actually getting 100% fake meth is an awfully rare thing on SR
Oh no, I know for a fact it is real as I have tried almost every ROA for this drug and it acts as it should in every area. I'm just curious of it's quality as I have taken much more than I thought possible in a single sitting and not even felt really, "high." But someone has cleared this up for me in PM ;)
And I'm hoping bynter is just busy as all hell in his studies... It seems like just yesterday he was talking about his first meth binge :(
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Am I the only one that noticed bynter's sudden disappearance from the thread? :(
I also found out today that either I have an insane tolerance for this stuff or the vendor I bought from was bunk :(
Nope, you're not the only one. I've been in touch with good ol' bynter through PM, although I have yet to get a response (aka I messaged him asking where he ran off to, then he replied, then I replied to that, and now I'm waiting to hear from him).
From what I've read, it seems that he's quite busy juggling the meth drug-taking schedule (plus managing tolerance) and his coursework for school. Anyways, I think he's staying off the forums for fear of getting sucked back into this thread. Which he did say, by the way, was one of his favorites :)
Bynter, if you read this, please don't get mad that I relayed some info to your other internet friends :x
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After a bit more experience with meth I gotta say METH SUCKS. Of course, everyone's different, but if you, like me, need 'work stimulant', don't bother with meth. Get some uncut amphetamine. At least for me, amphetamine effects are much more pleasant, more useful, and I'm sure amphetamine is less harmful.
Stay safe and happy:)
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After a bit more experience with meth I gotta say METH SUCKS. Of course, everyone's different, but if you, like me, need 'work stimulant', don't bother with meth. Get some uncut amphetamine. At least for me, amphetamine effects are much more pleasant, more useful, and I'm sure amphetamine is less harmful.
Stay safe and happy:)
It's so difficult to get good clean amphetamine though. Almost any above-average grade meth I can count on to keep me at least close to the "zone" for days on end, if not actually "in it," ya know what I mean? But good amphetamine that I can count on to do the same is insanely hard to find. CC's is the only stuff that does the job every time. And he doesn't exactly cook up 50 kilos every week.
You're right, meth is a poor substitute if pure productivity is what you're looking for. But sometimes even a poor substitute is a lot better than no substitute, IMHO.
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Yeah I've got to say, dex/adderall I found to be much more physically stimulating (I have yet to try any real speed, once CC re-ups I might give it a go, or Boymaster I heard has good gear) whereas I found meth to be much more mentally stimulating. Relieves me of my social anxiety like *snaps* that, and I have no troubles running through my days work in a few hours :)
I want to get a hold of some speed soon though, as I've got to say I kind of miss that mechanical drive to clean my kitchen spotless right after breakfast :P
EDIT: I'm really glad to hear bynter's just "givin' er" I always assume the worst when I haven't seen people post in awhile. Send him some love from me.
I'm having a hard time with my schedule and tolerance too, found myself in a weird middle ground where my daily morning dose doesn't really do it anymore and I'm contemplating doubling up but at the same time I'm kind of down and out by 6-7 pm. Sooo... :P
Anyone else have any helpful tips as to schedule/dosage matched with their ROA? Thanks <3
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After a bit more experience with meth I gotta say METH SUCKS. Of course, everyone's different, but if you, like me, need 'work stimulant', don't bother with meth. Get some uncut amphetamine. At least for me, amphetamine effects are much more pleasant, more useful, and I'm sure amphetamine is less harmful.
Stay safe and happy:)
It's so difficult to get good clean amphetamine though. Almost any above-average grade meth I can count on to keep me at least close to the "zone" for days on end, if not actually "in it," ya know what I mean? But good amphetamine that I can count on to do the same is insanely hard to find. CC's is the only stuff that does the job every time. And he doesn't exactly cook up 50 kilos every week.
You're right, meth is a poor substitute if pure productivity is what you're looking for. But sometimes even a poor substitute is a lot better than no substitute, IMHO.
Well put, SS.
Yeah I've got to say, dex/adderall I found to be much more physically stimulating (I have yet to try any real speed, once CC re-ups I might give it a go, or Boymaster I heard has good gear) whereas I found meth to be much more mentally stimulating. Relieves me of my social anxiety like *snaps* that, and I have no troubles running through my days work in a few hours :)
I want to get a hold of some speed soon though, as I've got to say I kind of miss that mechanical drive to clean my kitchen spotless right after breakfast :P
EDIT: I'm really glad to hear bynter's just "givin' er" I always assume the worst when I haven't seen people post in awhile. Send him some love from me.
I'm having a hard time with my schedule and tolerance too, found myself in a weird middle ground where my daily morning dose doesn't really do it anymore and I'm contemplating doubling up but at the same time I'm kind of down and out by 6-7 pm. Sooo... :P
Anyone else have any helpful tips as to schedule/dosage matched with their ROA? Thanks <3
I've suggested this to many people, and use it myself. Use memantine. It really helps keep tolerance under control, especially if you take 10 mg in the morning and 10 mg at night. I've noticed significant improvements on amphetamine effects after starting that regimen.
I would say try that before doubling up your dose. Or if you can't get memantine anytime soon, get a magnesium supplement and take about 1000 mg daily while you wait for your memantine to arrive. Hopefully this will lower tolerance a bit for you and save you having to up your dose.
I also assume the worst when people on drug forums go missing lol. I'm trying to take a break from meth right now (it's honestly just too good for me to take with any kind of regularity) and sticking to dexamphetamine. Gotta say that meth really does feel like that missing puzzle piece and that's the scariest part for me :/
Oh well, you do what you gotta do to perform how you want to perform. Wishing you all the best!
Keep that tolerance on the DL.
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I'm trying to take a break from meth right now (it's honestly just too good for me to take with any kind of regularity) and sticking to dexamphetamine. Gotta say that meth really does feel like that missing puzzle piece and that's the scariest part for me :/
Yeeeaaaahhh... :P The "magic" kind of feels like it's gone for me.. already (taking 30mg daily except for weekends for the last 3 weeks) so like I was saying I'm thinking about trying some speed (is dosage the same as dex for this..?) instead. I would much rather take it irregularly and enjoy the full effects it would seem, cause now all I'm interested in is upping my dose which presses some buttons for me :(
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I'm trying to take a break from meth right now (it's honestly just too good for me to take with any kind of regularity) and sticking to dexamphetamine. Gotta say that meth really does feel like that missing puzzle piece and that's the scariest part for me :/
Yeeeaaaahhh... :P The "magic" kind of feels like it's gone for me.. already (taking 30mg daily except for weekends for the last 3 weeks) so like I was saying I'm thinking about trying some speed (is dosage the same as dex for this..?) instead. I would much rather take it irregularly and enjoy the full effects it would seem, cause now all I'm interested in is upping my dose which presses some buttons for me :(
I'd say the dosage is about the same as dex, but dex (in my opinion) is slightly more potent than racemic amphetamine.
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Yes, "meth" does not seem to be as good as regular amphetamine. This may be due to the fact that the average purity of d-methamphetamine hydrochloride in "meth" is 40%. SR included.
But don't just take my word for it... =)
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Yes, "meth" does not seem to be as good as regular amphetamine. This may be due to the fact that the average purity of d-methamphetamine hydrochloride in "meth" is 40%. SR included.
But don't just take my word for it... =)
I disagree... the meth I've gotten has been highly pure. So pure that it lasts me incredibly long periods of time. The amphetamine on SR is decent also, but I think meth is definitely stronger, more potent, and more pure in comparison to the ampheramine on SR.
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I think that would be enough for what you want. Hammertime meth is pretty potent. I take less than that and still experience great effects despite my amphetamine tolerance.
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a personal tip from me is if you are thinking about trying meth and you like watching porn and you combine the two together you will probably never be able to look at porn without wishing for meth ever again. its a rapidly addictive combo..
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My meth tolerance jumped pretty damn high. And also my self control is not very good either!
went through 550mg of hammertimes stuff in a little under three days.
now i'm left with a high high tolerance! oh boy, what do i do.........
on about 130mg spread throughout 4 1/2 hours right now combined with GHB and its a nice and amazing high!
just nowhere, where i supposed i would be..
taking around 700mg chelated magnesium per day. and tolerance break is not in order at all
any other NDMA antagonists? i can't seem to find memantine anywhere on the internet...
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tocadisco, I personally use Buy-pharma.com often and it's quite good. Shipping is a bit slow, so definitely place your orders accordingly. It is legit and has memantine at good prices. While you're on there, look into etizolam for the comedown (though if you have enough GHB left you probably won't need it) and mirtazepine for sleep and mood stabilization. An alternative to mirtazepine that doesn't induce sleep but is a very effective antidepressant is stablon. In order to notice a significant change in tolerance, you need to stop taking the amphetamine for 2-3 days WHILE taking the NDMA antagonist 2 times a day. Then when you go back to your stim dose, you should notice that you need much less to achieve the same effects. So start lower than what you took the previous time.
I hope that helped :)
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Careful, Toca. That's the eternal problem, my man: that you don't have a problem until it's all gone. And it goes faster and faster. Just know what you're doing and where you're headed if you don't stop, that's all.
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tocadisco, I personally use Buy-pharma.com often and it's quite good. Shipping is a bit slow, so definitely place your orders accordingly. It is legit and has memantine at good prices. While you're on there, look into etizolam for the comedown (though if you have enough GHB left you probably won't need it) and mirtazepine for sleep and mood stabilization. An alternative to mirtazepine that doesn't induce sleep but is a very effective antidepressant is stablon. In order to notice a significant change in tolerance, you need to stop taking the amphetamine for 2-3 days WHILE taking the NDMA antagonist 2 times a day. Then when you go back to your stim dose, you should notice that you need much less to achieve the same effects. So start lower than what you took the previous time.
I hope that helped :)
you da man! i appreciate this so much.
it just isn't the same. and tolerance/break is needed and in order!
i have a bunch of valiums, but i need something with a shorter half-life , maybe etizolam can help in a positive way!
how would you rate ketamine as a NDMA antagonist, say using in moderate doses for two days?
more effective than magnesium?
now if i could just figure out how to + 1 people ....
=)
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I'd like to balance this advice out with a snippet from Wikipedia (and it's NMDA, just FYI):
NMDA receptor antagonists are a class of anesthetics that work to antagonize, or inhibit the action of, the N-methyl d-aspartate receptor (NMDAR). They are used as anesthesia for animals and, less commonly, for humans; the state of anesthesia they induce is referred to as dissociative anesthesia. There is evidence that NMDA receptor antagonists can cause a certain type of neurotoxicity or brain damage referred to as Olney's Lesions in rodents, although such damage has never been conclusively observed in primates like humans, however, in adolescent cynomolgus monkeys that were injected daily with the non-competitive NMDA antagonist, ketamine, there were some definite neurologic deficits observed.
I'm not sure I'd take an NMDA antagonist long term. But that's just me.
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Careful, Toca. That's the eternal problem, my man: that you don't have a problem until it's all gone. And it goes faster and faster. Just know what you're doing and where you're headed if you don't stop, that's all.
Thanks SS.
Definitely see where it has been headed with this drug specifically.
once this supply is gone, i need to find a way not to be able to order again.
easily the best drug i've ever ingested in my life. to each their own.
but easily the worst drug, physically, i've ever ingested at the same time .
love hate relationship. ultimately i will get the best of the drug. fortunately i will catch it in its tracks.
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You got dis, Toca.
And it's true. The problem with meth isn't how BAD it is, it's that its TOO GOOD.
I was able to stop using it the way I was when I first got it and I'm still trying to decide when are okay times to take small doses of it. In the meantime, (dextro)amphetamine is a good way to go.
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If your nose starts to bleed and you see Beavis and Butt-Head walking around your appartment than you have the right dosage ...
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Got some of BoyMasters amph yesterday. Can safely say it is much more of a motivator than meth, but lacking that mental stimulation :(
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Was BoyMaster's amph pretty good still? Like good purity?
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tocadisco, I personally use Buy-pharma.com often and it's quite good. Shipping is a bit slow, so definitely place your orders accordingly. It is legit and has memantine at good prices. While you're on there, look into etizolam for the comedown (though if you have enough GHB left you probably won't need it) and mirtazepine for sleep and mood stabilization. An alternative to mirtazepine that doesn't induce sleep but is a very effective antidepressant is stablon. In order to notice a significant change in tolerance, you need to stop taking the amphetamine for 2-3 days WHILE taking the NDMA antagonist 2 times a day. Then when you go back to your stim dose, you should notice that you need much less to achieve the same effects. So start lower than what you took the previous time.
I hope that helped :)
I'm trailing a little behind in this thread but just wanted to give you a shout and say thanks for your information. Definitely some information I was not aware of and I appreciate it.
Also, you mentioned earlier about something missing when away from meth and I have to agree--meth and opiates are the two things I've taken (but more especially meth) really leave me with a gap of some sort that makes me feel...like less when I'm not doing it. I've kept my dosages minimal/none for a week or so and it's a bit of a downer. I mean, I limit myself to ensure I'm not just abusing the shit out of the stuff but at the same time a bad day or a rough day or a long day leaves me feeling like shit and I can't help but think "if I had done or if I do a little meth...I'd be feeling so much better"
Ah man. I'm getting all depressed and lousy feeling (not drug-related[for the most part]--just been a rough few weeks) just thinking about staggering through these days without taking help when I have access to it.
Anyways, good info Zip. Thanks for your posts.
Cheers,
Snoopish
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Was BoyMaster's amph pretty good still? Like good purity?
http://braqrsskizlusigz.onion
It's amazing, and according to that list very pure. The ONLY real problem with it is I work so hard that by the end of the day my body is destroyed haha
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tocadisco, I personally use Buy-pharma.com often and it's quite good. Shipping is a bit slow, so definitely place your orders accordingly. It is legit and has memantine at good prices. While you're on there, look into etizolam for the comedown (though if you have enough GHB left you probably won't need it) and mirtazepine for sleep and mood stabilization. An alternative to mirtazepine that doesn't induce sleep but is a very effective antidepressant is stablon. In order to notice a significant change in tolerance, you need to stop taking the amphetamine for 2-3 days WHILE taking the NDMA antagonist 2 times a day. Then when you go back to your stim dose, you should notice that you need much less to achieve the same effects. So start lower than what you took the previous time.
I hope that helped :)
you da man! i appreciate this so much.
it just isn't the same. and tolerance/break is needed and in order!
i have a bunch of valiums, but i need something with a shorter half-life , maybe etizolam can help in a positive way!
how would you rate ketamine as a NDMA antagonist, say using in moderate doses for two days?
more effective than magnesium?
now if i could just figure out how to + 1 people ....
=)
I haven't used ketamine but I would venture to say that it is a more effective NDMA antagonist than magnesium. However, as SS pointed out, ketamine isn't really the healthiest option. Plus, as I've stated somewhere else (not sure if it was in this thread): it kinda sucks when you're trying to lower amphetamine tolerance to be healthier (presumably) and you have to be bumping ketamine, which kinda confines you to a fiendish existence in bed all day. Memantine is pretty free of dissociative effects so it's a functional NDMA antagonist that I think avoids the situation that SS was quoting in wikipedia.
Sorry I didn't get back to you on this sooner, tocadisco!
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Thanks for that link, TK!
Really awesome resource I think more people should have. I may have to try this BoyMaster product myself soon...
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TL:DR
smoking crystal meth vs oral ingestion
I usually just eat the shit, but a mate says to smoke it, lasts longer. I call bullshit, he will smoke a point and only be awake for about 2 days. I'll eat a point in 4 parts and be awake a little over 6 days..
Opinions?
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Oral is longer lasting and less "intense" or euphoric than smoking. Smoking will give you a powerful, short-lasting high.
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Oral is longer lasting and less "intense" or euphoric than smoking. Smoking will give you a powerful, short-lasting high.
Thanks.
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How much/often would you need to use meth before health risks start to appear, particularly by smoking?
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Well first of all, this changes from person to person.
Your overall health when taking meth will affect it, your metabolism, drug history, etc.
To the best of my ability, I will say that a person can "safely" use meth once a month at doses under 100 mg and be okay. However, this varies greatly from one person to the next. Also, the health risks increase the more times a person redoses and the higher the dose a person uses.
You will definitely notice some adverse effects from meth if you take it more than two days in a row. Even more adverse effects will be present if you don't eat and sleep properly.
By smoking in particular, some of the biggest health risks are to your mouth itself. Even when taken orally, meth restricts the blood vessels in your gums (and other extremities as well) and saliva production, thus reducing your gums' ability to fight off infection and bacteria. When you smoke meth, the vapor you are inhaling is pretty corrosive. So if you add the corrosive nature of meth vapor to dry gums, it is very easy to accelerate tooth and gum decay. This can be minimized by brushing/using a flouride rinse after each smoking session, but excessive brushing is also not good for you.
Bottom line: however you do meth, you will be taking risks. The best way to minimize these risks is to stick to the lowest effective dose, avoid redosing, and avoid using with any kind of regularity.
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tocadisco, I personally use Buy-pharma.com often and it's quite good. Shipping is a bit slow, so definitely place your orders accordingly. It is legit and has memantine at good prices. While you're on there, look into etizolam for the comedown (though if you have enough GHB left you probably won't need it) and mirtazepine for sleep and mood stabilization. An alternative to mirtazepine that doesn't induce sleep but is a very effective antidepressant is stablon. In order to notice a significant change in tolerance, you need to stop taking the amphetamine for 2-3 days WHILE taking the NDMA antagonist 2 times a day. Then when you go back to your stim dose, you should notice that you need much less to achieve the same effects. So start lower than what you took the previous time.
I hope that helped :)
you da man! i appreciate this so much.
it just isn't the same. and tolerance/break is needed and in order!
i have a bunch of valiums, but i need something with a shorter half-life , maybe etizolam can help in a positive way!
how would you rate ketamine as a NDMA antagonist, say using in moderate doses for two days?
more effective than magnesium?
now if i could just figure out how to + 1 people ....
=)
I haven't used ketamine but I would venture to say that it is a more effective NDMA antagonist than magnesium. However, as SS pointed out, ketamine isn't really the healthiest option. Plus, as I've stated somewhere else (not sure if it was in this thread): it kinda sucks when you're trying to lower amphetamine tolerance to be healthier (presumably) and you have to be bumping ketamine, which kinda confines you to a fiendish existence in bed all day. Memantine is pretty free of dissociative effects so it's a functional NDMA antagonist that I think avoids the situation that SS was quoting in wikipedia.
Sorry I didn't get back to you on this sooner, tocadisco!
Hey no worries. Luckily for me i am a week clean from meth today. Started hitting the gym back up.
it's when you almost lose it all (job, health, deteroriation) that you have to make a choice. i did it on my own also.
i almost lost my job, my life, and all the wonderful things in this life to one drug.
so now i'm bulking up, and its working so far!
on my 5-6th day clean i felt amazing, i supplemented with 5htp/l-tyrosine early on in withdrawal.
also the past three days have been l-dopa! my hero haha
i think that i will do meth again when i need to or want to. during my average day, i have no use to do it.
maybe if i hit a big party or rave or something. i think my binging and long routed ways with meth are long gone.
i think maybe 3 weeks from now, i will try it again. i needed this break.
well, back to the ketamine topic. i just got some in. i think i am going to try it tonight(never tried it before) just for shits and giggles.
i supplement with chelated magnesium about 600-800mg per day, or somewhere thereabouts.
i don't mind the psychedelic or dissociative effects of K , due to the fact that i used to be a huge shroom head in my day and did quite a bit of that dirty dxm stuff back in college hah!
i'll let you know how the K goes for NDMA antagonist. i think in three weeks off a little line i will be SPUN! hahaha
thanks guys for the support and help =)
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An extra assurance from a seasoned veteran user of just about everything.
If you can smoke it, and eat it, the smoke will def be the fast rush-short lived high. Though I totally 'get' the desire for that rush. - I say do BOTH! 8)
I'm mainly an amphetamine guy. The stuff they call Meth nowadays I actually haven't tried, though I've been, I guess "Meth-curious" lately??? - LoL (been lurking here every so often) 8)
I snort amph, but when I'm going to need it to last for a long day, our couple hours, and can't be stopping to go "sniff sniff" and tell everyone I have allergies, in way too much detail! :-[ - I'll throw like 40mg on the back of my tongue, and swish down a beer. (my favorite catalyst) Then do a few snorts, and it's off to the the task at hand! ;D
Haven't done new millennium meth yet. (my own term for it) - When I did meth last, it was in High School in the late 1970's - yeah, I'm an old fuck.
It came in a clear capsule, and it was whiter than freshly fallen snow, and was the strongest 'upper' as was the term, I ever took.
Last bit of wisdom is, if you want to try the best amphetamine, I can most assuredly recommend Boymaster - Get it while it's available!!
Go easy on it though. It's stroooonnnngggggggg!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
peace
jagfug
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Man... Meth. I gotta say, if there's anything that worries me about SilkRoad it's having such easy access to high quality Methamphetamine. A lot of this thread is talking about safe ways to do it - never binge, never do more than 100-200mg a day, eat, sleep, test... which is great, in theory, but for me would last a good hour or so. Don't get me wrong, I still try to sleep, and I'll eat something when I remember, but when I'm getting tweaked I'm gonna get fucking TWEAKED. You know those little toy cars that you roll the wheels backwards on to wind up and then let go? How as a kid you would pull it back again and again and again as hard as you can to try to get it to go as fast and hard as you could? That's Meth.
I've never had a meth problem, per se, but I've been on the precipice. I have a sensitive tooth that will remind me every so often just how bad the drug is for me, how close I got to true addiction. I never lost anything, never even bought it for myself. Nonetheless, I love meth. I love it so much I can't let myself do it. If I get any amount, I'm gonna tweak until I don't have any left. Even if I go into it with the best intentions, that shit is going to be GONE in a day. I often fantasize about getting a teener of the best crystal I can find and getting gacked for a weekend in a hotel with an unlimited supply of pornography.
I think a lot of that has to do with lifelong ADD and how stimulants kinda slow me down (at first). I love cocaine, I'm looking to try some pharm grade amphetamines if I can find em cheap (Not this $15 a pill shit, I sure wish there was a domestic Amphetamine vendor), but the high from meth is everything I ever wanted in a drug. An Energetic calm, a feeling of invincibility, metaphorically planting your feet firmly in the earth, and a complete lack of give a fuck about what people think of me. Yes, I'm going to look at this one porno mag for the next 6 hours and not even bother getting hard, and it's going to be amazing - do you have a problem with that? Hell, I couldn't sleep last night due to intense cravings for some ice, and I haven't even seen the stuff in over 18 months. Sometimes I wish something horrible would happen in my life that could warrant me going off the deep end and retreating into a world of tweak and hookers (then I feel terrible about it).
The one redeeming factor (for my health and well being) is that I really hate tweakers. Love tweak, hate the scene. Jail, Gangs, generally untrustworthy people and any and every type of debauchery there is is there in the meth scene somewhere. Saw a lot of friends fall down the rabbit hole to never come back out. A couple of them tried to crawl out... but just got stomped down. I like to think they're better now, seeing as I cut off all contact years ago, but the last I saw any of em they just weren't the same people anymore.
That, and the comedown is out of this world bad for me. There's few things worse than finally being hungry - no, STARVING - and not being able to eat thanks to a mouth covered in painful sores due to moving my tongue at a constant 90 mph for days on end.
I'm not completely sure why I'm posting this, other than it's something I felt I needed to get off my chest. Throw it out into the ether, I suppose. Still, maybe someone can learn something from me here. Some people can dance with the devil and escape with their soul in tact... but they may always long for just one more waltz.
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tocadisco, I personally use Buy-pharma.com often and it's quite good. Shipping is a bit slow, so definitely place your orders accordingly. It is legit and has memantine at good prices. While you're on there, look into etizolam for the comedown (though if you have enough GHB left you probably won't need it) and mirtazepine for sleep and mood stabilization. An alternative to mirtazepine that doesn't induce sleep but is a very effective antidepressant is stablon. In order to notice a significant change in tolerance, you need to stop taking the amphetamine for 2-3 days WHILE taking the NDMA antagonist 2 times a day. Then when you go back to your stim dose, you should notice that you need much less to achieve the same effects. So start lower than what you took the previous time.
I hope that helped :)
I'm trailing a little behind in this thread but just wanted to give you a shout and say thanks for your information. Definitely some information I was not aware of and I appreciate it.
Also, you mentioned earlier about something missing when away from meth and I have to agree--meth and opiates are the two things I've taken (but more especially meth) really leave me with a gap of some sort that makes me feel...like less when I'm not doing it. I've kept my dosages minimal/none for a week or so and it's a bit of a downer. I mean, I limit myself to ensure I'm not just abusing the shit out of the stuff but at the same time a bad day or a rough day or a long day leaves me feeling like shit and I can't help but think "if I had done or if I do a little meth...I'd be feeling so much better"
Ah man. I'm getting all depressed and lousy feeling (not drug-related[for the most part]--just been a rough few weeks) just thinking about staggering through these days without taking help when I have access to it.
Anyways, good info Zip. Thanks for your posts.
Cheers,
Snoopish
I vaguely remember your first threads about meth and how you were just using it for productivity and studying. I had this feeling in the back of my mind you'd get sucked in deeper.
Well I kind of went down the same road, I get the interest initially, you start slow, get a feel that the drug is actually not "as bad as you thought" and that you could work it into your life for the utility and not recreation. Three months later you realize you're fiending the shit out of it.
Either way it may feel like a void in your life returned when you try to quit, thats because you naturally will feel depressed for a week or two if you've been using a lot. I had to sweat out a week of pure emotional hell. I ended up using oxy and weed a lot to curb the horrible feeling. The first day after stopping was manageable, but shit...the 2nd morning I literally felt crippled and could not keep myself from passing out and calling in sick. It wasn't a withdrawal, I knew it was just the end result of fucking up all the dopamine in my brain. After that day of hell I had to pop opiates to curb the headache and general feeling of uselessness. I used weed when I could (not at work) -- so that I didn't have to keep using oxycodone.
The next 4 or 5 days were not that bad to make it through, just generally felt a strong craving for it. Then another week of that and suddenly I felt normal again. Literally felt like meth was no longer important to my well being, I was able to think more clearly for the first time in months, you literally don't realize what that shit was doing to your head and just your very being. I lost like 5 lbs, was very noticeably looking strung out and unrested/undernourished, it never occurred to me beacause the drugs were making me feel like everything was perfect in the world. I know 5 lbs isn't dramatic, and I'm making it sound much more so than it was. But I was noticing the change, luckily no one else noticed it as much as I did. And then I decided I needed to stop before I became something I had feared all along. I'm now in perfectly great health, I look so much better now that I gained the weight back (not hard, you get hungry as fuck when you come off the meth for a week or so...), I started eating healthy, exercising, and focusing my attention on positive hobbies again.
It's only a month now since I quit, but I'm more than content staying away from this drug for a long time, -- I know I'm gonna do it some time in the future, there's no doubts. But I can't let myself buy it ever again until I've fully understood how much respect it requires to keep under control.
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tocadisco, I personally use Buy-pharma.com often and it's quite good. Shipping is a bit slow, so definitely place your orders accordingly. It is legit and has memantine at good prices. While you're on there, look into etizolam for the comedown (though if you have enough GHB left you probably won't need it) and mirtazepine for sleep and mood stabilization. An alternative to mirtazepine that doesn't induce sleep but is a very effective antidepressant is stablon. In order to notice a significant change in tolerance, you need to stop taking the amphetamine for 2-3 days WHILE taking the NDMA antagonist 2 times a day. Then when you go back to your stim dose, you should notice that you need much less to achieve the same effects. So start lower than what you took the previous time.
I hope that helped :)
I'm trailing a little behind in this thread but just wanted to give you a shout and say thanks for your information. Definitely some information I was not aware of and I appreciate it.
Also, you mentioned earlier about something missing when away from meth and I have to agree--meth and opiates are the two things I've taken (but more especially meth) really leave me with a gap of some sort that makes me feel...like less when I'm not doing it. I've kept my dosages minimal/none for a week or so and it's a bit of a downer. I mean, I limit myself to ensure I'm not just abusing the shit out of the stuff but at the same time a bad day or a rough day or a long day leaves me feeling like shit and I can't help but think "if I had done or if I do a little meth...I'd be feeling so much better"
Ah man. I'm getting all depressed and lousy feeling (not drug-related[for the most part]--just been a rough few weeks) just thinking about staggering through these days without taking help when I have access to it.
Anyways, good info Zip. Thanks for your posts.
Cheers,
Snoopish
I vaguely remember your first threads about meth and how you were just using it for productivity and studying. I had this feeling in the back of my mind you'd get sucked in deeper.
Well I kind of went down the same road, I get the interest initially, you start slow, get a feel that the drug is actually not "as bad as you thought" and that you could work it into your life for the utility and not recreation. Three months later you realize you're fiending the shit out of it.
Either way it may feel like a void in your life returned when you try to quit, thats because you naturally will feel depressed for a week or two if you've been using a lot. I had to sweat out a week of pure emotional hell. I ended up using oxy and weed a lot to curb the horrible feeling. The first day after stopping was manageable, but shit...the 2nd morning I literally felt crippled and could not keep myself from passing out and calling in sick. It wasn't a withdrawal, I knew it was just the end result of fucking up all the dopamine in my brain. After that day of hell I had to pop opiates to curb the headache and general feeling of uselessness. I used weed when I could (not at work) -- so that I didn't have to keep using oxycodone.
The next 4 or 5 days were not that bad to make it through, just generally felt a strong craving for it. Then another week of that and suddenly I felt normal again. Literally felt like meth was no longer important to my well being, I was able to think more clearly for the first time in months, you literally don't realize what that shit was doing to your head and just your very being. I lost like 5 lbs, was very noticeably looking strung out and unrested/undernourished, it never occurred to me beacause the drugs were making me feel like everything was perfect in the world. I know 5 lbs isn't dramatic, and I'm making it sound much more so than it was. But I was noticing the change, luckily no one else noticed it as much as I did. And then I decided I needed to stop before I became something I had feared all along. I'm now in perfectly great health, I look so much better now that I gained the weight back (not hard, you get hungry as fuck when you come off the meth for a week or so...), I started eating healthy, exercising, and focusing my attention on positive hobbies again.
It's only a month now since I quit, but I'm more than content staying away from this drug for a long time, -- I know I'm gonna do it some time in the future, there's no doubts. But I can't let myself buy it ever again until I've fully understood how much respect it requires to keep under control.
That's literally the textbook definition of withdrawal. It's not as bad as dope, but it's a very real withdrawal. It isn't just dopamine depletion, it's your entire nervous system bottoming out because you had it in overdrive for so long it started expecting you to keep it there forever. But you didn't. Shame on you ;)
@FroggyFrog: your avatar and intellect make me want to remind you how much fun debauchery really is. Fortunately for all of us, I'm a gentleman. I also find your generalizations about regular amphetamine users repulsive. Still, there's something to be said for hedonism -- I mean why else would someone find themselves here if not in the pursuit of hedonism...?
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I think heavy MDPV and a-PVP use ruined meth for me. I've got it a handful of times from legit vendors and done quite large amounts and it just doesn't do a whole lot for me. To me MDPV > Meth
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I think heavy MDPV and a-PVP use ruined meth for me. I've got it a handful of times from legit vendors and done quite large amounts and it just doesn't do a whole lot for me. To me MDPV > Meth
Honestly, i think it depends on what you're looking for in a stimulant. I prefer meth over MDPV and I've tried both.
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tocadisco, I personally use Buy-pharma.com often and it's quite good. Shipping is a bit slow, so definitely place your orders accordingly. It is legit and has memantine at good prices. While you're on there, look into etizolam for the comedown (though if you have enough GHB left you probably won't need it) and mirtazepine for sleep and mood stabilization. An alternative to mirtazepine that doesn't induce sleep but is a very effective antidepressant is stablon. In order to notice a significant change in tolerance, you need to stop taking the amphetamine for 2-3 days WHILE taking the NDMA antagonist 2 times a day. Then when you go back to your stim dose, you should notice that you need much less to achieve the same effects. So start lower than what you took the previous time.
I hope that helped :)
I'm trailing a little behind in this thread but just wanted to give you a shout and say thanks for your information. Definitely some information I was not aware of and I appreciate it.
Also, you mentioned earlier about something missing when away from meth and I have to agree--meth and opiates are the two things I've taken (but more especially meth) really leave me with a gap of some sort that makes me feel...like less when I'm not doing it. I've kept my dosages minimal/none for a week or so and it's a bit of a downer. I mean, I limit myself to ensure I'm not just abusing the shit out of the stuff but at the same time a bad day or a rough day or a long day leaves me feeling like shit and I can't help but think "if I had done or if I do a little meth...I'd be feeling so much better"
Ah man. I'm getting all depressed and lousy feeling (not drug-related[for the most part]--just been a rough few weeks) just thinking about staggering through these days without taking help when I have access to it.
Anyways, good info Zip. Thanks for your posts.
Cheers,
Snoopish
I vaguely remember your first threads about meth and how you were just using it for productivity and studying. I had this feeling in the back of my mind you'd get sucked in deeper.
Well I kind of went down the same road, I get the interest initially, you start slow, get a feel that the drug is actually not "as bad as you thought" and that you could work it into your life for the utility and not recreation. Three months later you realize you're fiending the shit out of it.
Either way it may feel like a void in your life returned when you try to quit, thats because you naturally will feel depressed for a week or two if you've been using a lot. I had to sweat out a week of pure emotional hell. I ended up using oxy and weed a lot to curb the horrible feeling. The first day after stopping was manageable, but shit...the 2nd morning I literally felt crippled and could not keep myself from passing out and calling in sick. It wasn't a withdrawal, I knew it was just the end result of fucking up all the dopamine in my brain. After that day of hell I had to pop opiates to curb the headache and general feeling of uselessness. I used weed when I could (not at work) -- so that I didn't have to keep using oxycodone.
The next 4 or 5 days were not that bad to make it through, just generally felt a strong craving for it. Then another week of that and suddenly I felt normal again. Literally felt like meth was no longer important to my well being, I was able to think more clearly for the first time in months, you literally don't realize what that shit was doing to your head and just your very being. I lost like 5 lbs, was very noticeably looking strung out and unrested/undernourished, it never occurred to me beacause the drugs were making me feel like everything was perfect in the world. I know 5 lbs isn't dramatic, and I'm making it sound much more so than it was. But I was noticing the change, luckily no one else noticed it as much as I did. And then I decided I needed to stop before I became something I had feared all along. I'm now in perfectly great health, I look so much better now that I gained the weight back (not hard, you get hungry as fuck when you come off the meth for a week or so...), I started eating healthy, exercising, and focusing my attention on positive hobbies again.
It's only a month now since I quit, but I'm more than content staying away from this drug for a long time, -- I know I'm gonna do it some time in the future, there's no doubts. But I can't let myself buy it ever again until I've fully understood how much respect it requires to keep under control.
woah. glad you are doing well man. i've gone through several withdrawals. i started my use back in october only using about 10 days per month till the end of december. i stepped it up to two week in january (straight), with sleep every night. then the following months until now it has been around 14 days or so a month (spread out) that i use meth. during these times i would eat anywhere from 1500-2200 calories at most. but the meth would just push right through that , and led to extreme mass loss
You say you only lost 5 POUNDS???? that's nothing brother..How long did you use for?
Jesus man, i look at photos of me around December i was huge, i lost about 9-10 pounds since October. most noticeably in my face, and rest of body. I lost a fuck load of muscle, got very depressed then ended up using more. even protein shakes and amino acids during the day on meth does not work for muscle loss.
luckily i have a passion for the gym, strength training, specifically. i couldn't imagine losing my athletic and built stature for life. that is the only thing that keeps me from going down the rabbit hole for good. i quit for 2 weeks every now and again, and my weight doesn't fluctuate too much, due to the fact that my metabolism is fucking fast as shit now (i think meth has changed it permanently/temporarily) .
When i take a break i go back on my anabolics for the gym, i eat like a fucking pig. then when i go back on meth, i look frail and skinny until a day or two after i stop. my anabolics definitely prevent muscle loss during my meth use, as meth is extremely anti-catabolic and sheds away at muscle.
it's relatively easy for me to quit. i have obligations, goals, a future. i know meth can strip this away , as i had already let it before. and i learned my damn lesson.
like today, i will quit around 11pm, its only been 4 days with sleep every night. so, i will lock my gear up in my safe and put the key far away from my reach, then go to the gym the next night. i will just take some L-Dopa / 5-htp. it helps tremendously. just thinking about the way i use meth, makes me want to fuck the shit out of the gym. and i do.
good luck man! =)
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@FroggyFrog: your avatar and intellect make me want to remind you how much fun debauchery really is. Fortunately for all of us, I'm a gentleman. I also find your generalizations about regular amphetamine users repulsive. Still, there's something to be said for hedonism -- I mean why else would someone find themselves here if not in the pursuit of hedonism...?
I really didn't mean to offend! I'm definitely a fan of certain types of sin and debauchery, that's for sure. I apologize for generalizing, I know that can be annoying, so please allow me to clarify.
Responsible users of any drug are rarely ever a problem. The problem arises that the Methamphetamine "Scene" (Generally speaking from my own experience here) isn't one that encourages safe practices and tends to be wrapped up heavily in those forms of criminality which I don't have a soft spot for. Robbery, Murder, Rape, a friend of mine even witnessed some pretty brutal torture via blowtorch to a fellow that was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong people who thought he had some very important information. Myself and a friend of mine were the the target of a terribly executed attempted murder as a result of a stupid practical joke played by someone we didn't even know on an old friend who considered himself hard after being awake for a month. That same friend who I defended from said attempted murder later pulled a shotgun on me because I told him the shadow people he was seeing out the window weren't real, and weren't really going to assault his homestead anytime soon. I feel I should mention I don't believe it's the drug itself that is the cause of this, but the lack of sleep (and of course, the user themselves). One person going without sleep for a few days is bad, but easy to recover from; a group of people who already have criminal tendencies going without sleep for weeks gets downright chaotic, and scary. Paranoia runs rampant, hallucinations come and go, and the bowl keeps on rocking.
If the meth scene was like how it is here on SR, then it would be great. Some of the people around here seem like a hell of a lot of fun to get spageeterd with. However, it's not, people are stupid and the longer they hit that pipe the less of their minds seem to stay with them. Eventually, after a long enough binge, a person almost stops being a person. Reverting to a vaguely humanistic animal, looking to fight or fuck or do anything that feels good no matter the consequence.
Obviously not every methamphetamine user fits this description. I've known a few that don't, and I myself have always been too much a fan of sleep to lose my mind (Except that one time of course... or the other). Self control makes a huge difference, as well as thoroughly researching the substance before consuming. That being said, if you don't respect the drug, it will consume and transform you.
To end this post, I leave you with a (slightly modified) quote told to me by a friend before I ever touched the stuff: "After 3 days, you start to hallucinate. After 5 days, you start to enjoy it. The trick is getting from 3 to 5 without going completely insane."
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@FroggyFrog: your avatar and intellect make me want to remind you how much fun debauchery really is. Fortunately for all of us, I'm a gentleman. I also find your generalizations about regular amphetamine users repulsive. Still, there's something to be said for hedonism -- I mean why else would someone find themselves here if not in the pursuit of hedonism...?
I really didn't mean to offend! I'm definitely a fan of certain types of sin and debauchery, that's for sure. I apologize for generalizing, I know that can be annoying, so please allow me to clarify.
Responsible users of any drug are rarely ever a problem. The problem arises that the Methamphetamine "Scene" (Generally speaking from my own experience here) isn't one that encourages safe practices and tends to be wrapped up heavily in those forms of criminality which I don't have a soft spot for. Robbery, Murder, Rape, a friend of mine even witnessed some pretty brutal torture via blowtorch to a fellow that was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong people who thought he had some very important information. Myself and a friend of mine were the the target of a terribly executed attempted murder as a result of a stupid practical joke played by someone we didn't even know on an old friend who considered himself hard after being awake for a month. That same friend who I defended from said attempted murder later pulled a shotgun on me because I told him the shadow people he was seeing out the window weren't real, and weren't really going to assault his homestead anytime soon. I feel I should mention I don't believe it's the drug itself that is the cause of this, but the lack of sleep (and of course, the user themselves). One person going without sleep for a few days is bad, but easy to recover from; a group of people who already have criminal tendencies going without sleep for weeks gets downright chaotic, and scary. Paranoia runs rampant, hallucinations come and go, and the bowl keeps on rocking.
If the meth scene was like how it is here on SR, then it would be great. Some of the people around here seem like a hell of a lot of fun to get spageeterd with. However, it's not, people are stupid and the longer they hit that pipe the less of their minds seem to stay with them. Eventually, after a long enough binge, a person almost stops being a person. Reverting to a vaguely humanistic animal, looking to fight or fuck or do anything that feels good no matter the consequence.
Obviously not every methamphetamine user fits this description. I've known a few that don't, and I myself have always been too much a fan of sleep to lose my mind (Except that one time of course... or the other). Self control makes a huge difference, as well as thoroughly researching the substance before consuming. That being said, if you don't respect the drug, it will consume and transform you.
To end this post, I leave you with a (slightly modified) quote told to me by a friend before I ever touched the stuff: "After 3 days, you start to hallucinate. After 5 days, you start to enjoy it. The trick is getting from 3 to 5 without going completely insane."
Wow. I have never in my entire life done anything even remotely similar to any of those. I'm afraid it's not the drug, or the lack of sleep -- neither do anything like that to me. Ever. Not after 3. Not after 5. Not even after the one time I went 8. I think it was the people. Though if I had seen all of that happen because people were on meth, I think I might be even less forgiving of the chemical then you are. I'm sorry for implying you were at all wrong for your statement. I was the one who was wrong for assuming I knew your motivation; I obviously didn't.
I'm not sure why you have a taste for these people, but I hope it doesn't end up hurting you. I hate to think of such a cute kitty getting hurt :(
... I am definitely influenced entirely too much by people's avatars... ::)
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... I am definitely influenced entirely too much by people's avatars... ::)
HAHAHA. SS, you're my favorite man.
Also, that makes me wonder what you think about my avatar...
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Glad to see some good people with some success kicking the habit, as it were.
It's nice to be able to seem some familiar faces are still out and around talking and shooting the shit.
Anyways, just popped in this thread again to say thanks for those who are providing encouragement, jokes, or generally making this place a positive environment for meth users.
Cheers,
Snoopish
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Glad to see some good people with some success kicking the habit, as it were.
It's nice to be able to seem some familiar faces are still out and around talking and shooting the shit.
Anyways, just popped in this thread again to say thanks for those who are providing encouragement, jokes, or generally making this place a positive environment for meth users.
Cheers,
Snoopish
Hey man, I'm glad that you've found this place as positive as I have :)
Cheers!
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Wow. I have never in my entire life done anything even remotely similar to any of those. I'm afraid it's not the drug, or the lack of sleep -- neither do anything like that to me. Ever. Not after 3. Not after 5. Not even after the one time I went 8. I think it was the people. Though if I had seen all of that happen because people were on meth, I think I might be even less forgiving of the chemical then you are. I'm sorry for implying you were at all wrong for your statement. I was the one who was wrong for assuming I knew your motivation; I obviously didn't.
I'm not sure why you have a taste for these people, but I hope it doesn't end up hurting you. I hate to think of such a cute kitty getting hurt :(
... I am definitely influenced entirely too much by people's avatars... ::)
You're absolutely right that it's the people/users that are to blame more than anything else. I don't blame the drug, I blame questionable people doing too much of the drug irresponsibly. Still, no need to worry, I got myself out of that situation a while ago, and haven't touched foot around those people since. Takes all the fun away when you gotta be 3 steps away from gangsters and the permatweaked any time you want to enjoy yourself. SilkRoad is a godsend as far as that's concerned, it's amazing (not to mention, very tempting). I think it all the trouble I've experienced could be avoided quite easily with quality product acquired safely, knowledge about the substance, self-control and regular sleep - and friends who feel the same. Except for the comedown, that shit sucks and there's not much getting around it.
Also, damn dog, 8 days and no hallucinations? The longest I went was 5 days and I was seeing some of the most vivid visuals I've ever experienced on any drug. In retrospect it was a terrible, dangerous weekend - but I'll never forget the unicorn dolphin mermaid in the pond, or the procession of phantom people running right up to me and disappearing inches from my face.
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Wow. I have never in my entire life done anything even remotely similar to any of those. I'm afraid it's not the drug, or the lack of sleep -- neither do anything like that to me. Ever. Not after 3. Not after 5. Not even after the one time I went 8. I think it was the people. Though if I had seen all of that happen because people were on meth, I think I might be even less forgiving of the chemical then you are. I'm sorry for implying you were at all wrong for your statement. I was the one who was wrong for assuming I knew your motivation; I obviously didn't.
I'm not sure why you have a taste for these people, but I hope it doesn't end up hurting you. I hate to think of such a cute kitty getting hurt :(
... I am definitely influenced entirely too much by people's avatars... ::)
You're absolutely right that it's the people/users that are to blame more than anything else. I don't blame the drug, I blame questionable people doing too much of the drug irresponsibly. Still, no need to worry, I got myself out of that situation a while ago, and haven't touched foot around those people since. Takes all the fun away when you gotta be 3 steps away from gangsters and the permatweaked any time you want to enjoy yourself. SilkRoad is a godsend as far as that's concerned, it's amazing (not to mention, very tempting). I think it all the trouble I've experienced could be avoided quite easily with quality product acquired safely, knowledge about the substance, self-control and regular sleep - and friends who feel the same. Except for the comedown, that shit sucks and there's not much getting around it.
Also, damn dog, 8 days and no hallucinations? The longest I went was 5 days and I was seeing some of the most vivid visuals I've ever experienced on any drug. In retrospect it was a terrible, dangerous weekend - but I'll never forget the unicorn dolphin mermaid in the pond, or the procession of phantom people running right up to me and disappearing inches from my face.
Nope. Nothing. I seem to be the least psychotic person in existence, for whatever odd reason that is. I never hallucinate, really; doesn't matter what I take. I have seen this or that, but no actual hallucinations -- just disturbances, you know.
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Wow. I have never in my entire life done anything even remotely similar to any of those. I'm afraid it's not the drug, or the lack of sleep -- neither do anything like that to me. Ever. Not after 3. Not after 5. Not even after the one time I went 8. I think it was the people. Though if I had seen all of that happen because people were on meth, I think I might be even less forgiving of the chemical then you are. I'm sorry for implying you were at all wrong for your statement. I was the one who was wrong for assuming I knew your motivation; I obviously didn't.
I'm not sure why you have a taste for these people, but I hope it doesn't end up hurting you. I hate to think of such a cute kitty getting hurt :(
... I am definitely influenced entirely too much by people's avatars... ::)
You're absolutely right that it's the people/users that are to blame more than anything else. I don't blame the drug, I blame questionable people doing too much of the drug irresponsibly. Still, no need to worry, I got myself out of that situation a while ago, and haven't touched foot around those people since. Takes all the fun away when you gotta be 3 steps away from gangsters and the permatweaked any time you want to enjoy yourself. SilkRoad is a godsend as far as that's concerned, it's amazing (not to mention, very tempting). I think it all the trouble I've experienced could be avoided quite easily with quality product acquired safely, knowledge about the substance, self-control and regular sleep - and friends who feel the same. Except for the comedown, that shit sucks and there's not much getting around it.
Also, damn dog, 8 days and no hallucinations? The longest I went was 5 days and I was seeing some of the most vivid visuals I've ever experienced on any drug. In retrospect it was a terrible, dangerous weekend - but I'll never forget the unicorn dolphin mermaid in the pond, or the procession of phantom people running right up to me and disappearing inches from my face.
Nope. Nothing. I seem to be the least psychotic person in existence, for whatever odd reason that is. I never hallucinate, really; doesn't matter what I take. I have seen this or that, but no actual hallucinations -- just disturbances, you know.
Wow, I can't tell if that's awesome or unfortunate for you. Still neat though, right on. When it comes to psychedelics I never really hallucinate either, not on that level at least. Seeing actual objects and beings that don't actually exist (Depending on your definition, I guess), that has only ever happened from long periods of sleeplessness.
Of course, on that particular instance I had eaten a good 2 grams of relatively pure methamphetamine over the course of a few days. The next night I ate a xanoflex to try to sleep and that was... interesting, to say the least. Definitely did not work as intended.
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So i no longer achieve any euphoria from meth anymore. At all! what is going on?
Received two different types of meth's recently . Tried various ROA's , rectal/smoke/snort.
none give me the same effect that i used to have many months ago.
i took three days off and used ketamine and massive amounts of magnesium for ndma antagonists.
guess what, it definitely helps your tolerance! But nothing for the extreme rush/euphoria.
did anyone lose the power to achieve euphoria with meth? i only get extremely focused and rushy.
my doses are 50-100mg at a time. and small bumps in between. re-dosing quite often.
so i am not meth naive so to say.
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I haven't gotten euphoria for years and years, toca. It only gets worse man; you start losing that hyper focused feeling after awhile too. FYI, those are pretty large doses. 100mg at a time is really starting to get up there.
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I haven't gotten euphoria for years and years, toca. It only gets worse man; you start losing that hyper focused feeling after awhile too. FYI, those are pretty large doses. 100mg at a time is really starting to get up there.
Same here. Problem is I keep thinking it is the batch and that I just have to find that one vendor who has the perfect gear and I'll get that high back. Nope. I have, however, reached something similar using a-pvp. And honestly, I'm thinking of getting rid of all of my dope so I can cop some more a-pvp. (If you decide to try a-pvp, do some research, the dosages are way different that with meth)
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I haven't gotten euphoria for years and years, toca. It only gets worse man; you start losing that hyper focused feeling after awhile too. FYI, those are pretty large doses. 100mg at a time is really starting to get up there.
damn! that stinks. so i lost the 'magic" so to say ... =/
well in a 24 hour period usually 400mg or so if i have a lot around me
usually threshold is 50mg for me or so i think. it sucks!
like now i just took 45mg up the nose when i did about 35mg about 2 1/ hours ago
most common used roa for me is nasal. switching up the roa doesn't make a difference anymore i think... =(
what are your doses SS? i wonder what you veterans must be doing in one go haha
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... I guess it's useful info to have, isn't it. Okay. I've taken about a gram and a half in the past 24 hours. Maybe more. I honestly don't pay attention to the total. My doses are usually ~300mg staggered throughout (every 2-4 hours).
My tolerance is still increasing, FYI. And no, I have no noticeable delusions, hallucinations, or anything of the sort. I'm also quite hungry at the moment, and if I stopped redosing I'd probably fall asleep in a few hours.
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One important thing to note is that you're not chasing the euphoria with meth use, SS. I think that's why you're not having delusions, hallucinations, etc. I might be wrong though, just thought I'd point that part out...
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One important thing to note is that you're not chasing the euphoria with meth use, SS. I think that's why you're not having delusions, hallucinations, etc. I might be wrong though, just thought I'd point that part out...
Yeah. I'd probably be dead if I had been chasing that all this time. I mean really, I probably would be. Also, your use is escalating awfully fast, Toca. A lot faster than mine did, for what it's worth.
By the way, please don't quote that post of my dosages. I have a sneaking suspicion I'm going to want to delete it before long... I find details like that very embarrassing, even on an anonymous forum.
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One important thing to note is that you're not chasing the euphoria with meth use, SS. I think that's why you're not having delusions, hallucinations, etc. I might be wrong though, just thought I'd point that part out...
Yeah. I'd probably be dead if I had been chasing that all this time. I mean really, I probably would be. Also, your use is escalating awfully fast, Toca. A lot faster than mine did, for what it's worth.
By the way, please don't quote that post of my dosages. I have a sneaking suspicion I'm going to want to delete it before long... I find details like that very embarrassing, even on an anonymous forum.
If you're talking to me, then know that mum's the word... I'm zipstyle, remember :X lips are zipped.
Thanks for sharing the info regardless, it's humbling to have to tell people what you're taking.
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My tolerance is still increasing, FYI. And no, I have no noticeable delusions, hallucinations, or anything of the sort. I'm also quite hungry at the moment, and if I stopped redosing I'd probably fall asleep in a few hours.
interesting. yeah i have a tendency to like to do more and want more. this is where my addict mentality comes into play. am i chasing the original high? i doubt it. do i want to get high(er), quite possibly. Dosing higher to me means better times. I know i am wrong, it's just my mentality towards drugs. I know it's a bad path to take.
I've actually never had delusions, hallucinations or anything like that. The only time that happened was when i smoked chaetla's meth back in december for two weeks and starting hearing/believing things that weren't there, then 17 days later im in the hospital...anywho...Although this has never happened since. I got sleep every night and still had delusions.
It's weird even when i don't have sleep for say 36 hours and less, i never end up delusional or have hallucinations. I have never stayed up more than 48 hours at a time, as my body will not allow me to. And i guess the valium plays a role, because i take it alongside my meth.
weird, but funny, i tend to eat relatively well in the recent time, when spun. almost over my caloric deficit. hah. protein shakes, high fats, 4 solid meals a day. even after i take a fatty line or smoke a nice one. i'm hitting the refrigerator. lol.
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Before I do any drugs, ......... bla bla bla!
What can I say? You quoted things from people who experiment on rats and then post not to binge.
Was there really anyone here who didn't know binging has bad side affects? On anything - even pot?
I'm a drug addict. Which means to me that in .... oh a bunch of decades of doing first Amphetamine which then became crystal for smokers - and I IV! that you can take a very small amount of time off .... for me that is a week and IF I can find good meth - I'll be right there where I was .... decades ago from IV'ing. Also, I have nothing that will weigh dosages. The ole eyes have always known what will take me 'there'.
And nothing is wrong with me. Lol! There's that little 13 inch tall guy flying around where ever I go!
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Just felt the need to bump this thread and express the importance that this thread stay at the top. It's a shame that the sticky was removed.
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I use meth only occasionally. I don't know what meth comedown is. Here what I do:
- dose orally once in the morning
- do all the work I needed to do
- then add some weed (I would recommend sativa)have a nice walk
- by the end have dinner with some wine (feels awesome ) and go to sleep easily
- sleep good 6 hours and have even kinda meth afterglow next day
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I did 1 point over 2 nights (.05 one night, 0.05 the next). Basically felt great for about 8 hours or so and still managed to get 5 hours sleep and 4 on those nights.
I think the product was not as strong as I've had and I attribute having a good diet to not feeling too crappy.
Didn't really get euphoric but managed to do a massive clean of the house (and get pretty chatty in person and online). Snorting was my ROA.
Is this small about of usage (once a month) still pretty detrimental to my health/well being in the long run?
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I did 1 point over 2 nights (.05 one night, 0.05 the next). Basically felt great for about 8 hours or so and still managed to get 5 hours sleep and 4 on those nights.
I think the product was not as strong as I've had and I attribute having a good diet to not feeling too crappy.
Didn't really get euphoric but managed to do a massive clean of the house (and get pretty chatty in person and online). Snorting was my ROA.
Is this small about of usage (once a month) still pretty detrimental to my health/well being in the long run?
Probably not, if you are able to stick to using only once a month. Thing is, as has been discussed over and over (it's a recurring theme with meth/stim use), it's very easy to use once a month and then one month you'll have an especially large workload and you'll want to use meth for that, and then you start finding more and more uses for the drug. If/when that happens, you'd have to take a break for a while or else get stuck in a cycle that will become detrimental to your health and well-being in the long run. You might be able to use even less than .05 for each session and still have pretty good effects if you don't have amphetamine tolerance. I would suggest using the smallest amount possible each time you use because tolerance develops quickly. You can start out using 15-25 mg at first and it will probably work considerably well. Just be very aware and honest about your use. Keep track of when you dose, what the effects were, and how long you plan on waiting before dosing again.
For more info, I suggest you read SelfSovereignty's posts in the previous pages of this thread. He gives a very honest and (in my opinion) accurate perspective on amphetamine use.
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For more info, I suggest you read SelfSovereignty's posts in the previous pages of this thread. He gives a very honest and (in my opinion) accurate perspective on amphetamine use.
I don't know whether to be ashamed or flattered... I think I'm both. Yes, definitely both.
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Using once a month won't really affect you.
Hell, using once a week won't really affect you.
But who uses meth once a week for a long period of time? Lol.
Well I'm clean nearing 3 months now come next week. I'm always tempted in the back of my mind to give it one more try and see if I can't control that shit. But I'm also a little put off by the notion that I'll get hooked right back into that cycle.
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tell me about it man, i am 2 months clean and just put in my safe 1 gram of HeroinUSA.
literally testing my will power here and not spiral out of control. its been two days now ...which is a 200% improvement since all my other purchases ever (rip threw them like a 5 year old on christmas)
power to the stick
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im on a break day 1 here. its specifically for a tolerance break. ive been using 4 or 5 months on a fortnightly weekly irregularly pattern of usage. the whole 4 or 5 months my total amount of usage was about 8 or 9 grams. 7 grams of that was from kush411 so it was good stuff
last 8 days or so i used everyday though.. slipped down the slope. the number of days i did it is a bit foggy but i did sleep every night with xanax. what i claim to be 8 days of straight usage is just a guess because i just know it was less than 2 weeks im foggy on everything about it. anyhow for 3 days of that time i didnt use and got depressed as fuck.
so im using l-tyrosine for a month or so from now on and just going to use lexapro for long term 6 months for non-meth reasons. no access to 5-htp here so lexapros quick 5 day lifting effect on me last year might be just as good if im going to feel miserable for a month. if i could get l-dopa i would but i suspect its available prescription only here.
so yesterday was my last day and i run meth into the mud in that 8 day or so consecutive usage. the tolerances are so up its fucken pointless to use. id rather be depressed and try it when i come off the lexapro.
i am asking you if the abstince from meth for 6 or 7 months will bring back the magic ive lost due to this 8 day run? i dont get that mental horny feeling , porn looks the same as sober and its boring. last night the only high was feeling like was gonna have a heart attack.
ive read various things about tolerance but does the magic ever come back after 6 or 7 months of abstinence?.. is the porn gonna look amazing again? will i be a mental hornbag? if not.. thats the end of it for me. i liked it as a sex drug. im wondering if its all ruined.. will it even come close to what it was like the first time i tried it?
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Coming here to keep this thread alive...this is an invaluable resource. It's a shame it lost it's sticky status.
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nice post +1 karma
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<3
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I wish I'd known about this post from day one, it should be a standard link on home pages of meth vendors..
I've come here after starting these two threads
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=182639.0
Meth - Recovering / Recharging
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=182590.0 Meth - Health Advice and Discussion
This thread has a lot about diet strategies.
Here's a summary of my usage over around 4 or 5 months?
Thankfully I may be kind of in line with the suggestions there. E.g. I've stuck with oral use, tried sniffing a small amount a handful of times but I'll cut that right out. Never gone through more 3/4 of a point in day which would be HUGE for me (maybe 75mgs), generally a point would last two days (~50mg / day), assuming the measure was accurate from the vendor (I never thought I'd be happy if a vendor was under weighing). I actually started with dexamphetamine pills, I think I started with one or two, maybe 6 in a day on a big day. I don't remember going as high as 8 (40mgs / day) in that in that initial time, with that usage level maintained not exceeded for a month or more, and initially for a month or so was only on weekends. Yeah it felt pretty amazing back then (a few months ago).
So the most I've probably done now I'm using meth powder (orally) is around 50mgs / day (half a point), but more often over a week and on weekends, with breaks of a few days or a week in between - not out of discipline but lack of supply or just couldn't be bothered and was still mostly weekend use only. Week use in addition to weekend use (intermittent, not always daily or consistent) started about a month or so ago. This week I may have exceeded this a litle, maybe a few days straight with one point (100mgs) spread out, but after possibly a few weeks of fairly consistent use with a point (100mgs) spread out every few days or up to a week, with some weekends with a point over both days (50mgs / day I think).
I don't seem to get that initial euphoria as much at the moment though. maybe recently more so because by my standards anyway, I went pretty 'hard' by using it consistently over three or four days, with some sleep disruption / insomnia over about two days.. I'd be surprised if I managed to exceed 60mgs a day but that'd be pretty extreme for me and I hope I haven't (it's hard to tell with this and without a micro scale). I was getting a bit of a headache last few days though, and a slight headache now (side of the head / temples). It really is hard to guage dose though except by assuming what I've been given is really one point or 100mgs and I split that out in to say five piles and try not to exceed half in a day, or 3/4 on a really big weekend day.
But thankfully when I started I didn't go straight in with stupid shit like smoking a point (100mgs) in an hour, or even smoking or snorting full stop and always prepared and supported myself with heaps of water and healthy food and exercise and sleep. My initial use was purely oral (dexamphetamine) pills @ 5mgs each, over a month or so with up to 40mgs or so a day on a 'hard weekend' during the day, with no sleep disruption. I only got sleep disruption recently when I started using meth powder (orally) a bit later in the day.
The bit about taking years to recover is a worry. I hope that's an extreme example for binge snorters and smokers. This week did feel a bit 'hard' for me by my standards.
The good news is I don't seem to get any or noticeable withdrawal, as in I can say yeah that's enough for the day and just leave it and biggest 'worry' I have is if I will sleep ok.
It can be sitting right in front of me and I don't feel tempted, even the next day. Maybe that's a good sign, and / or that I'm disciplined. There's a whole point ready to roll and I just can't be bothered. And I actually feel ok at the moment, just a little foggy but far from depressed. I feel emotionally pumped.
Sounds like I may need to consider staying off it for 5 days, but I was hoping to lay off it just two or three days and have another amazing weekend.. I've been using it orally in small doses (sometimes with 100mgs or a point lasting a week) but it's really hard to dose correctly. I try to split out the powder in to say five lots and dose that way but it's very difficult to work out.
Holy cow that post is very sobering though, I think after my last delivery I'll cut it out for a month or so and consider this sensitising thing. I hope I haven't pushed it too far as it is. In this case I used about a point I think (100mgs) in about 3 days, which is excessive for me. Daytime use only btw, I don't do all night binges, and not in heated rooms or crap like that.
I'm hoping the fanatical health focus has helped too.
I also feel a bit turned off it at the moment, definitely not any withdrawal, bit like seing a beer and not feelig tempted after a big night. I couldn't take it now if it was offered to me a gold plate, I just have no desire for it at the moment. Slept like a log last night too after downing two raw eggs too.
What are the specific symptoms to look out for telling you you've gone too hard? I didn't do the 'once a month' thing and I'm now worried that I've blown that 'sensitisation' window thing and now have to wait what two years to get that 'feeling' back again? That would really suck.
Is oral use better than smoking etc? I take it by mixing it in water with baking soda, it generally seems to take a few hours to come on and lasts quite a while, which may have actually caused me to dose a little high on occasion.
Yesterday, I definitely did feel some sort of tolerance I'm sure.. I definitely got a kick but not massive euphoria, but I didn't sleep well that previous two nights.
Weight is stable, appetite fine. Libido seems ok or no different too except for right now.
It sounds like if you are not careful you can really blow your chance to enjoy this stuff for years?? wow...
I'm not taking any supplements beyond protein and vitamins but generally follow a 'paleo' type diet - i.e. animal foods / fats / gluten / sugar / wheat free etc.
The one thing I did do that I thought was bad until I read this was I was using cannabis consistently, usually at the same time, for months. Reading this it seems not only that it may not have been a bad thing but it may have actually helped.
And I don't think I ever mixed caffeine or any other stimulants with meth either, I always stayed off coffee, even tea on days I used it. If only because I was concerned about insomnia. I had coffee on my day off today but that's it.
Also did a lot of weight training initially and still try to especially when on it (that's why I started using it, to help weight training), so maybe that helped too..
I guess I'm just trying to reassure myself that I don't need a month or even years off this. Anyone think I'll be ok to take two or three days off, go 'hard' (as in half a point or 50mgs a day) for few days and then leave it for a month or so perhaps?
I seem perfectly functional off it, not depressed or anything like that. Quite happy in fact. But on it I was a bit full on and over confident some times I think. But I'm also pretty full on normally anyway..
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I think you'll be fine man.
Just remember that you were fine without it at one point, and you'll be fine without it again in the future. Meth just makes everything much much much easier :)
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Yeah thanks for the reassurance... my main concern for now is that I really do enjoy this stuff, so not only do I not want to cause damage, accelerate ageing of my body and brain, I don't want to lose that 'feeling' I get from it and have to wait months or years to get any enjoyment out of it again.. I enjoy it so much I've basically given up everything else like weed and even alcohol when I'm using it. It really just works for me. So I don't want to 'blow' it and have to wait AGES for my dopamine receptors to re-sensitise.
So is oral use safer and less tolerance building than smoking / snorting? Any suggestions on working out dosage? I have no idea where to even get a micro scale, but if I could, perhaps I should just orally dose maybe 20mgs at a time, and leave that for something like 3 hours? Or maybe dose even more, sy 40mgs and leave it at that completely with no more that day.. and leave it for a few days or a week after that?
What I may do then is I have about another two points I think, I may just load up on that over a few days and really enjoy it, and then lay off it for a few weeks or a month and see how I go.
For now, will a two or three day break be sufficient do you think? I keep reading how dopamine levels take forever to recover, and if you over do it, the receptors can take months or years to grow back.
What have you guys found with repeated use over time? How do you precisely measure dose? Just split out lines?
I'll load up on B vitamin pills and eggs the next two days too.
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Well... normally I'd kind of say "dude, the information is like, right there. Read it." But you sound sincere in your indecision and confusion, so here's a little advice: do 5 days on, 2 days off (like don't dose on the weekends or something). That's not ideal, but it's what they might recommend if you were getting it from a psychiatrist.
Tolerance will build no matter how you take it. Dosing orally can last a long time. If you take a seriously massive fucking dose, like a gram, you will be tweaked for 24 hours. A gram is 1000mg, FYI. A dose of 30-50mg might have you coming down 6-10 hours later... something like that. Frankly I haven't taken that little for so long I don't even remember, but I think that's about right... so dosing twice in one day would either overlap and spike your blood levels in the middle of the day there, or you'd have insomnia. So I'd suggest dosing once in the morning orally, and sticking to the same dose. Don't up it. Find what works for you and stick with it.
The dosages the OP recommends are too high for daily use. You will cause some damage doing that, in my opinion. However, I am not a medical professional. Just a guy who fucking loves (meth)amphetamine and loves science, so take my advice in context of the source (a meth enthusiast who reads lots of science stuff for pleasure).
The Physician's Desk Reference recommends 40mg of dextroamphetamine (weaker than meth, in a nutshell) as the daily maximum. They usually ignore that. You can get prescribed 100mg a day or more if you get a liberal doctor who isn't afraid of backlash from irresponsible prescription practices. But don't do over 100mg a day. Just don't do it. Even at 100mg a day, you're going to develop some level of physical dependence (as in withdrawal will start if you don't take it for 24-36 hours). You also risk heavy psychological dependence at that dose.
So again, I'd say 30-50mg once a day orally. Just my .02 BTC. Buy a milligram scale off ebay or amazon or something. They're like seriously 20-30 bucks. You won't know how you lived without it, I promise.
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This is a great thread. Lots of thoughtful insight...
I've been experimenting with 30-60mg/day and while it's ok, it's also not manageable for me without benzos and alcohol. On the plus side, it's a great way to be able to lose some of the weight that's been burdening me for years. (Yes, yes, I know it's probably coming back after the meth goes)
Thanks to all who contributed ;)
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Weight will stay off if you at the same time develop a healthy lifestyle and diet... of course it will come back if you still eat shit and sit around all day. Unless I'm mistaken?
I haven't found weight coming back but I made an effort to train and exercise too.
Some good responses there too, thanks... seems I don't have a lot to worry about regarding damage and that oral use is generally safer and healthier (?) - but I'll never double dose in a single day again. I'll also cycle off more frequently. My main concern right now (unless I've missed something) is to avoid de-sensitising and then having to wate a long time for the best effects to return.
I had too much caffeine on my day off but I'll stop that too, and will see how I go after three days off this.
Good advice about b vitamins too..
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Been reading up, seems in low therapeutic type doses it's relatively safe, but I think I'll be going really easy on this stuff from now on.
Also for those out there wanting children, is there any research on ampetamines and gene changes / damage they could pass on to their children? They give the stuff to children WIDELY, so you'd think in low doses if there was a significant concern about this we'd have heard about it by now.
The worse stuff I've found so far is around ageing of the face and crystalising in the face or something?
I have a little bit left, I think I'll just enjoy that as suggested, and then lay off it at least until I'm sure I know what I'm doing. May just be a typical case of Google and health is a bad idea, everything itch is cancer in some forum or post, but .. you never know..
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<3
<3 <3
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sub
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Trying the recommended strategy here now... took some orally and kept it light. I will NOT re-dose again, I'll just leave it, whether I get anything or not. that's where I went wrong last time and probably got the crappy insomnia feeling without any of the 'good feeling'.. So whatever happens happens.. I won't re-dose any more, and try to keep it as light as I can.
If I can get a micro scale without looking like a druggie that will be better too.
Also dosing up on anti-oxidants (Acai berry concentrate pills, and Vitamine C before and after and basic healthy foods) to try and avoid genetic / DNA damage ageing. Also loading up on facial and body moistoruisers to try and avoid ageing there too as stimulants cut off peripheral circulation (fight / flight response - focus on core organs only for survival) so need to compensate for that.
Also read that in the extreme cases of teeth literally falling out with meth heads it's because of 1) poor oral hygeine for one and 2) stimulants shutting down saliva flow.
So I got some cheap good ol' chewing gum ... Does that help? If anything it may help the other stuff like lip smacking or whatever that causes dry lips, teeth grinding or whatever..
This sensitisation thing really interests me. It seems like if you're smart, and I'm happy to lay off for even a few months if I have to to let the receptors grow back (?) that you can sensitise yourself and actually need very little to enjoy it, with on / off cycles and so on.
I'd like to know if there are any cases of people enjoying this most of their lives without harm or noticeable ageing or other damage.
The advice in this thread is just mind blowing... I really think summaries of threads like this (not the threads themselves for various reasons) should be sticky linked to the category or even main SR home page.
Not only would it help people but also then put LE in a difficult situation where SR is doing more good for harm reduction and public health than anything a government could ever do. People would trust SR more than government / authoritarian advice, however true.
Good job people, thanks for the advice. You have really helped.
any suggestions on measuring out a dose without a scale, is that even possible? I'll try to get one somehow without 'raising suspicion' and I don't want to look like a seller (which is so NOT true, I consume ONLY, and only in small amounts).
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But doesn't vitamine c reduce amphetamine's potence?
Not that i would suggest to avoid it..cause i do believe vitamines and the whole lot are essential.
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b999: I'm just gonna lay it out here. This is a little embarrassing for me, but whatever. I've taken amphetamine daily for over 15 years. I've abused it in heavy doses for over 10 on a near-daily basis. I've abused methamphetamine as well (simultaneously) every day nearly without fail for about a year now.
I look younger than I am and am in absolutely fucking shockingly good health for someone who lives the lifestyle that I do. I mean 5-10 years younger. Yes, really. However, I have always -- somehow -- had a bizarre near-immunity to substances. I've taken lethal overdoses and gotten up the next morning. I don't know why, maybe super man gave me his kidneys or something, who knows. Your mileage may vary, is my point.
Also, this is not to say I have not suffered damage... I have suffered a very noticeable and problematic amount of damage to what they call "executive brain functions," as well as a myriad of other things I blame on my amphetamine abuse.
I eat a very healthy diet and try (but often fail) to do things like aerobic exercise and strength training. I'm sure that's helped, if nothing else. The only physical damage I seem to have suffered is that my hair sucks now and I have a heart thing that comes and goes but has never been diagnosed. 15 years ago I had gorgeous, soft, vibrant hair. Today it's... I don't know. Mediocre. It's my understanding that sleep deprivation can cause this. Well, I've had a decade of some seriously fucking severe sleep deprivation -- it could be the drugs themselves, but I don't believe so.
In short: that whole aging thing? Yeah, I don't know wtf they're talking about. I mean for real, I have absolutely no clue where the fuck they got that shit. It sure hasn't happened to me or anybody I know, but that's all I can say. I think mostly it's the sleep deprivation combined with severe malnutrition. When you first start doing the drug, you don't need to sleep. Or eat. Or even drink much, really. Like... you don't need to almost ever. As in you can easily go an entire week without eating or sleeping and barely drinking much at all, and as long as you keep taking the drug, you won't want to either.
I think that may account for the people who end up aging 20 years or something in 6 months. Maybe if I went 6 months without any sleep or nutrition at all I'd look like I was dying too. Who knows. At clinical doses, however, there is little -- if literally any -- damage done to your body. There's also no discernible damage done to the brain, basically. I define clinical as sub-50mg daily. If you want references, see any study on ADHD treatment with amphetamines.
Oh, almost forgot. I have all my teeth. And no cavities. They're almost perfect actually. And yeah, chewing gum stimulates saliva production, which would help.
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Did alot of it Daily for over 10 years, smoked snorted, in beverages, lost 2 teeth ( wisdom) to cavities. I had alot of relatives who would do it daily also, 1 lost a front tooth , besides that I always thought the Dental problem was a myth and had to do more with other factors besides meth, poverty and poor diet often go hand and hand with bad oral hygene. I did always make sure to drink water , especially after smoking to rinse residues off my teeh- may had played a factor.
Also, my Uncle was 70 years old and he did nearly as much as I did, only for much longer- he was in way better shape than about any other 65-70 year, hell he was in better shape than alot of 40 year olds. He passed away at age 79 a couple years back.
Alot of nasty misconceptions about meth, I think cuz most people cant hadle it, so they villan-ize it horribly.
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::) Nearing many decades of meth use under my belt and not finding anything that is better to fuck on - my 2.34 cents worth on this matter is genes. I was never sick my entire life. I have not nor do I take care of my self. I eat shit food - ice cream with hot fudge my favorite breakfast, lunch and often dinner! I don't use supplements and my skin is and always has been clear. I NEVER got rail/thin skinny! Lol! I've never not grown wood from REAL meth - not that AM (Alien Meth) that is so rampant on The Road! I put it in the main vein and keep up regularly with college girl a third my age - sexually! (Note: Not bragging - it is what I've always done meth for! Is there any other reason? My age group of females quit liking to have fun, party and FUCK typically at age 25 so that's why the babes! I'd love to find a female my age that wasn't through living - but they ALL ARE! Through living that is. :'( )
I have never used a scale and often have knocked myself to the floor (and beyond! ;) from meth so good that I should have put it on a scale - lol! Never needed to go to the hospital either . ... .. until discovering meth on The Road back in 2011. Then it's always 'keep the finger on the 9 in case of another batch of AM! Co-inkydink? That it all started with meth from here? IDK - just know when I lost my connection in the SF area and retired to an area that doesn't really seem to have a drug problem - yeh! I know! - that SR was my only source for meth. I believe it is getting better here because dem 'beaners' listen to what the Gabacho wants.
I worked all my life and never missed a single day because I'd been up all weekend dancing and fucking. I never once lied, cheated or stole to get more meth. When there was none or I was out of resources to get more - shrug? - I just didn't do it until there was more and/or money to get more. I did disassemble a couple of cars too fast that I was unfamiliar with and couldn't ever get back together about 20 years ago. ;D
In short - except for 2 vehicles ;) - I've never had anything but good come of meth - up to 2011. And I've even had about 1/4 ounce out of nearing 5 ounces if meth from SR that were .... . .. ... not old school, biker dope good, but close! (Note of interest; most of that meth most buyers here didn't like! So you can't go by reviews to buy "good" meth as that will differ as much as the "safe" amount of any drug to do!) The only time I've ever felt in health danger from meth is after discovering SR and the AM crap that passes more times than not; masquerading as 'meth' - on The Road.
I've since stopped buying it because of this. Not because I want to. I'm not even close to giving up the love of the real physical and mental mysteries in REAL meth and hope our taco vendors south of de border finally get a clue on how to tweak their ingredients to make real meth like all my old buddies used to in past decades cause I miss it!
What is the safe amount to do? Varies from individual to individual! Never assume there is a safe amount! One man's/woman's shit is another man's/woman's ice cream! If you are good with your God and not worried about passin on - slam the biggest amounts you can handle and then sum! Guaranteed to be a splendid time no matter what happens! Trust if you're alone and don't get up, no one will miss you at work and if they do - you won't care!
DISCLAIMER: NEVER do that in front of people who love you, children and/or nuns unless they are willing to do some with you - the nuns! Not your kids! Lol!
Love and Peace
oZ
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All good then. Any tips to get sleep besides more drugs? I notice if I orally dose say 40 or 50mg in the morning I may still have trouble with sleep that night.
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All good then. Any tips to get sleep besides more drugs? I notice if I orally dose say 40 or 50mg in the morning I may still have trouble with sleep that night.
If you went to a psychiatrist, he would say that this means your dose is too high and to cut back by 20mg (so try 20mg a day in the morning). If you find that isn't enough for you after one day of trying it (and it will be a lot less powerful than your 40mg, but try to judge by your focus & productivity, not your subjective feelings on whether it's working), try 30mg the next day. If that isn't enough for you... well, that's bad, and basically you're gonna have to take it earlier in the morning or something :-X
Also, I want to be absolutely honest here: I recently went to a dental hygienist for a routine cleaning. Turns out my situation has degraded of late and my almost total disregard for oral health has left me in danger of being in danger of losing some teeth (as in I'll be fine if I actually really do start flossing and brushing twice a day, but it's to the point where if I don't I *will* be in real danger of losing teeth they say). I just want to be sure to correct myself, because I implied very strongly that I'd suffered no harm to my teeth. Turns out that isn't true anymore, but apparently if I brush & floss & use mouthwash, I could keep on until the day I die and not lose a single tooth :P
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I floss, brush and rinse twice a day with an electric toothbrush. Should I still be concerned? Also trying to chew more gum to keep saliva going, and drink lots of water.
I will look at cutting back you may be right. Also someone in my other thread suggested that taking it with baking soda can screw up meth and even recycle it? So I could be taking FAR too much even orally then? I definitely need a micro scale, and I will stay off this for at least a week. Will a week be long enough to get an idea of any current addiction, let the body recover and lose some tolerance? I also try to exercise and weight train a lot, maybe that helps stimulate nerve re-growth?
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=182590.msg1342644#msg1342644
Is it true that mixing with mixing meth with baking soda and water can 'screw it up badly'? I still get a strong effect. I thought that stomach acids would destroy the meth (being alkaline) so you had to take it with an alkaline substance like baking soda?
This could be why I am getting insomnia long after I stop taking it. Like I only got a few short hours last night, maybe an hour or two at most, and then woke up again. Feel ok but definitely not 100%. If taking a half point in the morning, plus baking soda, is pumping more back in to my blood, so more hangs around for longer long after the 'high' has worn off leaving just insomnia, and no high.
wow I had no idea..
how can one get a micro scale without arousing suspcicion? Are there 'legitimate' uses? I don't want to be caught with one and be accused of being a 'dealer' which would just devastate my life as I have no intention of selling now, or ever, period. I don't even want to tell people I use this at all.
So take baking soda what half 15 minutes before meth, and 15 mins after or something? All disolved in water on an empty stomach?
I generally go through no more than half a point a day. Maybe, rarely, a small touch up in the afternoon but I will try to stop doing that (very small though).
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Whoa, man... are you sure you aren't tweaking? Because... you're worrying *way* too much, bro... cut back that dose just a touch :P Relax, have a seat, maybe a nice cup of tea or something. Seriously man, you're fine. Really: you're okay... :) Addiction isn't something you catch over night. It isn't something you never see coming. It's the name people give to their desire to continue taking a drug, even when that drug is making them lose other things in their life.
You know how you hear people say "I could stop if I wanted to?" Well that's the problem: nobody ever really wants to. Addiction (well, most addiction anyway) is just the desire to feel good (through a drug) and having done so enough for it to be a typical occurrence for you. It's just habitual use even in the face of loss because of that use. My point is this: you'll know if it happens bro, believe me.
You're fine man. And yeah, brushing will be just fine. Try not to redose in the afternoon, that's definitely going to cause sleep disturbance. If you want to do something, and you think you understand the consequences and the risks and the benefits (and it doesn't hurt anybody but you) -- then fuck it, do it. Nobody's got a right to stop you if it's only you you're hurting, IMHO.
Everybody's different, but you're seriously stressing over this wayyyyy too much. Again, you won't wake up and lose all your teeth and end up 60 or something overnight. You'll see it coming if it happens :)
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I think I've worked it out so I'm more relaxed now, just simply dosing a llittle too much which simply caused it to hang around my body long after the high wears off and that caused insomnia, that's all.
You don't get more high off this with more dose past a certain point.. you just get 'empty meth' hanging around the body for longer and disrupting sleep and just doing nothing of any use.
So it makes sense now.. I just need to work the bare minimum I need so I don't have empty meth hanging around being annoying with no fun.
So I probably suffered no worse than drinking too much coffee. Probably even healthier than coffee.
Now I know how this works and what I was doing wrong it's fine.
As this post says, dose low and work until I working out the minimum I need. Simple.
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DAMN
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Why damn? I have concluded that less is more with meth after finding this thread. I think 20mgs will be more than enough for me, 30mgs at most, so maybe a third of a point.
What is the best way to take meth orally? Just mix in water and have on an empty stomach when not hungry?
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I just re-read the first bit of this post. I may have 'accidentally' pre-sensitised myself by starting on dexies, and if I remember, I only took them like once a week and maybe two to four in a day, so no more than 20mgs of dex. I'm hoping I did do the pre-sensitising thing, and hope I didn't 'un-do' the sensitisation by my 'oral binge' on up to 50 or 60mgs of meth that gave me bad insomnia (but not bouncing off the walls type thing, just being awake).
Re-reading though it suggests oral use may actually NOT be a good idea due to bio-availability. I hate to say this, but would smoking / vaping possibly be a better idea?
If so, I could try vaping say 1/4 of a point, being 25mgs and see how I go. Maybe this is why I don't need that much because I accidentally 'senitised' myself. I'm hoping anyway.
So how would I try 'inhaling' 25mgs if that's not such a 'unsafe' idea? Just divide a point in to quarters and what... snort it? I hear that's bad for the nose, all sorts of nasty chemicals and stuff...
I'm not really comfortable with the 'direct ingestion' thing but if taking it orally is actually working against me, then I may have to consider it?
What do you do, heat it up on foil or something and just breathe it in? I have a cannabis vaporiser, maybe I could use that... it blows in to a plastic bag and can be set to temps up to 350F or something.
I really don't want to get in to the whole 'druggie' scene, I just want to use this most safely and enjoyable way I can.
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I just re-read the first bit of this post. I may have 'accidentally' pre-sensitised myself by starting on dexies, and if I remember, I only took them like once a week and maybe two to four in a day, so no more than 20mgs of dex. I'm hoping I did do the pre-sensitising thing, and hope I didn't 'un-do' the sensitisation by my 'oral binge' on up to 50 or 60mgs of meth that gave me bad insomnia (but not bouncing off the walls type thing, just being awake).
Re-reading though it suggests oral use may actually NOT be a good idea due to bio-availability. I hate to say this, but would smoking / vaping possibly be a better idea?
If so, I could try vaping say 1/4 of a point, being 25mgs and see how I go. Maybe this is why I don't need that much because I accidentally 'senitised' myself. I'm hoping anyway.
So how would I try 'inhaling' 25mgs if that's not such a 'unsafe' idea? Just divide a point in to quarters and what... snort it? I hear that's bad for the nose, all sorts of nasty chemicals and stuff...
I'm not really comfortable with the 'direct ingestion' thing but if taking it orally is actually working against me, then I may have to consider it?
What do you do, heat it up on foil or something and just breathe it in? I have a cannabis vaporiser, maybe I could use that... it blows in to a plastic bag and can be set to temps up to 350F or something.
I really don't want to get in to the whole 'druggie' scene, I just want to use this most safely and enjoyable way I can.
If you want to enjoy meth as safely and enjoyble way you can, just take it orally man. Snorting and smoking will give a temporary rush (pretty short lasting, actually) that you may be inclined to chase after. Just treat meth as the drug it is: an extremely potent and powerful stimulant. It's not like cocaine or MDMA... this shit really does hijack the dopamine system. So I'd advise taking it for its functional purposes and/or saving it as a once-in-a-while kinda thing. It really is a drugs that can be used in any situation, no lie. When I was using it, I quickly realized that I could take it to do hardcore academic work, be extremely social and pick up any girl and have some of the most amazing nasty kinky fuckathons of my life, carry out lengthy academic discourses with other intellectuals, compete in physical sports, the list just goes on and on.
Just wanting to tell you to be careful man. It sounds like you're heading down a road with this drug that may not be so positive in the long run. If you had trouble sleeping with oral doses, you will DEFINITELY have trouble sleeping with intranasal or smoked doses.
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If you want to enjoy meth as safely and enjoyble way you can, just take it orally man. ...
Just wanting to tell you to be careful man. It sounds like you're heading down a road with this drug that may not be so positive in the long run. If you had trouble sleeping with oral doses, you will DEFINITELY have trouble sleeping with intranasal or smoked doses.
What do you mean not positive, the not sleeping bit? I get the same with caffeine, if I have a coffee too late in the day I won't sleep either.
I'll follow your advice and stick to oral use then, I don't want to end up 'chasing' anything and burning a hole in my pocket etc.
I was wondering if intranasal or smoked would reduce the half life, but it doesn't help? If not then there is no benefit to trying it over oral then.
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I've read that baking soda potentiates meth. So does magnesium. I take an emergen-c packet, mix in 1/2 tsp of baking soda, then 20-30 mg on the tongue and chase with the drink. Then take magnesium pill, alpha lipoic acid, grape seed extract, more vitamin c, etc if I can remember. This may not be the perfect way to take it but it works for me.
I've had a problem with staying up all night, doing K at the tail end, drinking, benzos. So I'm trying not to use everyday. But the best I seem to be able to do is one, maybe 2 days off meth. Then back on for one or 2 days. I sleep, I eat, but sometimes not till the sun comes up.
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I don't know if it only happens with Amphetamine, but Vitamin C, will bring you down from it. I remember trying to potentiate Adderall, back when that was all I could get. The baking soda and water. (just a half teaspoon in a half cup water) Really made a difference.
Also making sure not to take it with ANY acidic things. Coffee, Orange Juice. - Emergence-C especially. - It's a great supplement, just don't take it when you're trying to get high on your speed.
Again Idk if it applies to Meth, but it seems like it would. Calling all chemists!
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so what do you do with baking soda then exactly, a teaspoon with water some 10 minutes before, then again say half hour after? And that alkalises the liver and slows down excretion? Similarly, when you want to come down, just down a handful of vitamin C tablets?
What about supplements like spirulina / green concentrates and eating salads etc, surely that helps too. Beetroot juice is apparently very alkalising too.
What do you do with calcium / magnesium pills? Just load up each night and morning on a double recommended dose or something? How does it 'potentiate'?
What about eating a dense / protein type meal while on this? you'd think that's a good thing, especially with any appetite supressing going on. I don't want to lose muscle mass, I want to put ON muscle mass.
Also - I am interested in any signs of addiction a mainly oral user should look out for.
I don't seem to 'crave' it when I don't have it, but I understand the real craving can take some time to really kick in. I did go a week without and I think I did 'crave' it a little so I'm spacing it out more now - averaging say 40mgs / day (orally with water) when I'm using it, and a few days off type thing. Sometimes less, but my dose / tolerance doesn't seem to be increasing either and I never chase a 'high' - I just let it roll and try to get some sleep that night.
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subscribed.
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Uggh I accidentally mixed a vial of mdma with a vial of meth.. is there any way to separate the two? I wouldn't mind sacrificing the mdma if I have to
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Anyone know about chemical toxicity in meth? I heard that some cheap cooks use toxic crap like lead in the mix? May be worth investing in a testing kit as you lead is far more toxic than meth!
Enjoying the latest batch... Did take it nasally though which is naughty I know but I wanted a quick come down rather than a long drawn out come down all night, so I can enjoy a mild evening buzz.
I guess this is where someone tells me that I am now treading a dark path? I've gone through about 40mgs today, nasally. I may take it up to 50mgs. I don't get a 'high' as such, I hope that's not tolerance, but I have spread it out over the whole day.
Really enjoy my 'me time' with this latest batch.. If I can keep doing this, enjoying it like a few drinks as opposed to getting rolling drunk then this stuff doesn't seem too bad. Bit like enjoying a few wines with lunch or dinner as opposed to downing a whole bottle and stumbling around all night. A few wines is hardly an issue.
As always though, I'm trying to watch the dose carefully for signs of addiction and tolerance. I am really enjoying this stuff though. I think I'm going through about 4-5 points a month - or about 100 - 125mgs / week on average, and fairly consistently it seems. Another benefit of silkroad is you can force yourself to look at your history and KNOW what you are spending and consuming and keep a close eye on it so you can't deceive yourself.
Any thoughts on this kind of consistent use? As far I as I recall, it's now been about 100 - 125mgs / week on average with a few days or week break here and there for the last three months or so. All health checks etc all come out perfect, I feel and seem completely fine even by professional medical opinion in my last check up and blood test. So I guess I'm just more concerned about addiction creeping in, financial loss from over-doing it and needing more and toxic nasties like any lead or other toxic chemicals in manufacture building up or taking it's toll on me. I've heard of 'acetone washing' but I have no idea what that's meant to do or why I should need to if the cook and vendor are doing their jobs and providing quality already 'washed' product.
Gotta say, dancing around the house on your own to full on music is just the best - and so healthy. The doc actually said I look amazing and my health has improved beyond sight in the last year. So either this is helping, or I've managed to negate most of the *visible* and *detectable* negatives. I'd like to think it's helped because I try to lead an active life while using it - exercising, being social or just being productive. I think meth actually helps reinforce behaviours through dopamine release so I figured I may as well reinforce enjoyable *actually active* activities. Seems to work.. Even when off meth, I seem to now enjoy those activities more - I guess from the reinforcement.
The next dental check should also tell me if there's any reason for concern there but I doubt there would be, although the reduced salivation from meth and dental deterioration from that is a worry so I'm trying to chew more gum and drink more water when I remember.
Other than that, the doc said I was a remarkable picture of health - blood pressure, weight, everything was exactly where it should be he said.
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All beginners dabbling in meth or amphetamines could benefit greatly from this thread. it would be great if it could get stickied...
Mods? DPR?
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All beginners dabbling in meth or amphetamines could benefit greatly from this thread. it would be great if it could get stickied...
Mods? DPR?
If only. For what little it's worth, I second this sentiment. Or at least a compilation thread with links to these helpful threads that have a lot of helpful informaiton
Cheers,
Snoopish
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Ill third this notion.
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Posting so I can find this thread later.
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All beginners dabbling in meth or amphetamines could benefit greatly from this thread. it would be great if it could get stickied...
Mods? DPR?
If only. For what little it's worth, I second this sentiment. Or at least a compilation thread with links to these helpful threads that have a lot of helpful informaiton
Cheers,
Snoopish
Coming back, I would also like to add that this thread could also help prevent severe meth addictions by educating potential users about the risks and benefits of using meth safely.