Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: chronicpain on November 28, 2011, 04:24 pm
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I thought a thread was appropriate for those that need help. Or just want to talk about getting help or off their drug of choice. There are a lot of weekend warriors here but there are a lot of addicts as well. I thought a place where they could post their problems and those that have been there can help and give advice.
Don't just give important medical advice. Taper schedules are ok and meds that are used in detox are ok. But keep home remedies to a minimum.
Ill try my best to reply to every post. If you want to speak privately, just pm me...
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Years ago I quit meth by using heroin; some do it the other way around, but for me it was speed that was the most difficult to let go of. Then I got caught up in opiates. It took a few times in rehab, a few months in jail, and generally losing everything to be able to let heroin go. Subutex, clonidine, trazodone... all helped get off dope on the pharmacological side, but only by working the 12 steps was I able to really free myself from that shitty existence. Some have huge reservations against 12 step groups, but I assure it, it doesn't have to be about some cult-like following. I liked to say; the steps didn't become my life, they gave me my life back.
But I had my own criticisms about the groups, and how many of the members behaved. And I just really disliked the idea of never being able to get high. So who knows what happens this time around? I guess I could lapse back into addict mode, but I don't think I will. Living that way is much too difficult, it fucking sucks. I'd like to use drugs as an addition to the fun and beauty of life, rather than allow them to tie me up and drown me. For some, it can't be one way or the other. But you, and you alone, can tell whether you have a problem with addiction, and the solution is going to differ for everyone. But there is a solution. You just have to really want it.
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Religion or spiritual beliefs may help one to possibly quit addiction. For example, if a spiritual belief would forbid one to drink alcohol and/or cigarette, one who is devoted would probably do so. This may apply to other drugs as well.
Lil bro has done fresh poppies, opium, H, alcohol, tobacco, etc. but does not feel dependent though. He primarily does it for research purpose.
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Excellent thread idea.
I'll mention that there's been some interesting studies where scientists gave large amounts of marijuana to hard drug addicts and it was quite successful IIRC...
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One thing to remember when quitting drugs of any sort is that it is easy to quit. Many people end up not quitting because they have a false sense of how difficult it will be. It isn't difficult at all. It is quite a simple process - stop taking drugs. Friends and some kind of support (AA/NA meetings etc...) is quite helpful.
I was addicted to Heroin and Fentanyl (v. high doses). I quit in a couple of days with Buprenorphine powder and Ketamine.
I was addicted also to Phenazepam. I was taking 2000mg/day. I was prescribed Carbemazepine and went cold turkey on the Phenazepam. Not reccomended. I still had a seizure and all my knuckles on my right hand are flat now where I ground them off on the floor. A Taper would be a good idea, but probably wouldn't work very well with a long acting benzo such as Phenazepam.
For anybody quitting opiates:
Small doses of Ketamine will remove withdrawal symptoms.
Methadone is harder to get off than Heroin and some other opiates (longer half life = much longer withdrawals).
Buprenorphine is good, but the branded Subutex/Subuxone seem to make people feel sick.
For anybody quitting Benzodiazepines:
Carbamazepine is needed.
A taper is not needed, but is highly recommended.
Remember to quit caffeine too!
Any tapers I would recommend finishing as soon as possible.
Any body who cant sleep during detox. Deal with it. The last thing you want is a sleeping pill addiction.
I am now 100% drug free. I still suffer from amnesia caused by the Phenazepam. And I still get phantom taste smell of Ketamine and Fentanyl from time to time.
Hope this helps.
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This is a great idea, well done for this initiative! Any ex coke peeps, I would really like an insight?
Cheers all...
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This is a great idea, well done for this initiative! Any ex coke peeps, I would really like an insight?
hey hoffa ... I def crawled in a trench with a gram a day yay habit for about 9 months (although I had quite a ramp up to the gram a day habit, 8 balls in one night kinda binge-ing) ... I was dealing so it was (I want to say free but that's not true ...) low cost for me. Had a really, really, bad day, if you want to know why exactly PM me ... anyway, sort of reached this low part of the trench that I think hard core alcoholics call 'a moment of clarity' Anyway, this was 7 years ago. whew, made it through ... ok, anyway,
rehab was not an option, although looking back I think I definitely could have benefited from some swanky inpatient rehab in so cal or somewhere sunny or whatever ... actually, I could have really benefited from any rehab anywhere I'm sure. But that's not what happened;
I was moving about 1/4 kilo a week, so making some really good money, but had that nasty gram+ a day habit, when MY supplier (who had access to kilos, still not clear who his supplier was, but, you know, someone who sold fucking KILOs of coke) was robbed at his house by three guys with tactical shotguns. They beat him really bad, took whatever drugs he had and about $85k in cash ... unfortunately 'whatever drugs he had' was a lot, and how do big dealers who operate on a fronting (credit) basis make you make up for stolen drugs? By making you a bigger dealer (giving you more product) so you can make up your debt.
Anyway, long story short, police were involved (a neighbor called the cops during the robbery), cops knew it was a drug robbery but also knew he was a victim, blah, blah blah, horrible implosion of my 'scene' and my 'world' and I left town. Headed west from the east coast, and I stopped, not because I wanted to, but because I cut off access. I could not get it, and even if I happened to run into someone who had it or could get it, think of the difference of the cut shit that some dude in the bar has a gram of compared to getting quarter kilos that still had the fucking string marks on it from the tied kilo. Average stomped on shit from some low level dealer wasn't really even the same drug to me. I had no access.
Nice thing about coke withdrawl is it 99.9% mental after the first week or so. Tough mental mountain to climb because that longing just will not go away .... 2 pharmaceuticals helped me, about a year after my last line: wellbutrin and ritalin.
So, bascially my advice to you is: cut yourself off from access, if you can. I know this is the SR, so wtf, I guess you have constant access more or less. That sucks, sorry, not sure what to tell you about that. Stop for a week, altogether, get over the slight physical withdrawal (it's nothing compared to opiates), and the 1st stage of mental withdrawal (which fucking SUCKS FOR A LONG FUCKING TIME) but get yourself a prescription for wellbutrin. That's easy. Any doc, family practitioner, will give you that if you ask correctly ("I'm depressed, I want to try an antidepressent, I'm worried about the sexual side effects of lexapro, whatever, can I try wellbutrin?). If you can, get a prescription to ritalin (which is 1 molecule different from cocaine ... similiar) but don't start crushing them and snorting them.
Make sense?
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Great idea for a thread... esp here where everyone is casually talking about buying/using addictive drugs.
My history, first is was weed, then it was speed, then it was E then it was H then it was coke and H (intravenously). Then it was rehab. I made a promise to God/ The Divine/ Spirit that I'll never stick a needle in my arm again if She'll just help me quit.
But then, after rehab and the 12 Step Shuffle, I started drinking–vodka mostly. This went on for a year, or so– drinking all day, starting with Vodka and Tang– while living in a cheap hotel in Hollywood. Then I got a job in a record store and forced myself to change my habits. This was in 1995.
A few years ago I had a mild problem with kratom, too, but then swore it off. If I'm not careful, I could become dependent on just about anything.
I heard once that your brain has a thermostat. Once you have been hooked on a substance, the thermostat breaks and can't be repaired. So you will always be prone to addiction because you can't regulate your pleasure centers any longer.
The only drugs I will do, are hallucinogenics, (and even that is only a few times a year) because I believe they have the power to help you see the world with a wider lens.
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Hey Ex thanks heaps for the insight, I will drop you a pm and talk a bit more. Thanks again and I hope more people visit this thread....
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I am a cannabis lover. I once, long ago, developed an addiction to coke. I had to totally swear off any kind of partying for five years or so, and made my rounds of 12 step programs as well. I made a couple of life long friends there, that are friends with me now even though I am not in "the program" anymore. They see my life as it really is, and see there is no problem. But there are a lot of people in those rooms with really deep issues so be careful.
Now I'm OK. I can say no to coke, I don't want it, it kind of disgusts me. I'm happy now with just a little buzz. I tried drinking but my body didn't like it. I suffer from chronic pain in my joints now and pills make me nauseous so, I am sticking to edibles as it seems to work best.
The thing is, if weed was legal I never would have tried coke. My dealer had it.
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I developed a bit of a coke problem a few years back, primarily because my GF refused to be around the smell of cannabis. It was much easier to hide coke from her, plus, well, coke can be so awesome.
But it can also be so miserable.
After awhile, I got sick of getting shitty, heavily cut coke. I started to hate how fake the drug was (in terms of the feelings it creates inside of you). A couple of times I'd go through a quarter over 3 days, never falling out. And that just isn't healthy.
One day I had just had enough. I was tired of anxiously calling my dealer, hoping he would pick up, hoping he would have something. I was tired of wasting all that money. I was tired of being dishonest with the girl I loved.
So, I quit. It wasn't hard, there was no withdrawal, I didn't need any help from anybody.
Every once in a great while, I'll get a gram, or if I'm out and somebody lays out some lines, I'll do my share. I can take it or leave it (and to be honest I usually end up thinking "Yeah, I really don't miss feeling this way").
But for the most part, it's pretty much cannabis, booze, some occasional opiates (we're talking percocets), and some occasional psychedelics.
Some people really do need formal rehab, especially when we're talking a physical dependency (opiates, benzos, alcohol). Coke and weed? All you have to do is decide you don't want them anymore. That's perhaps easier said than done, but that's how it was for me.
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There is a drug on the market called Provigil, that is now prescribed to people that suffer with narcolepsy. Apparently, it will soon be marketed as a drug to help cocaine addicts deal with cravings. If someone is having a problem staying clean for a decent chunk of time due to cravings...might want to look into it.
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@exodusultima, I have heard from several people who work "off the block" that most of the coke us normal people see doesn't even do the drug justice. Is the difference really that huge? I've done what I thought was great blow, to have others say it was stomped as hell. On a seperate note, I don't know if you still dabble, but do any SR vendors come close to your expectations? If that's not a relevant question, how do you discern real coke from street coke?
I've always had what I felt like was pretty decent self control, but the one time I let myself nearly slip into a daily heroin habit, a few suboxones and, as someone said earlier, the decision to quit was all I needed.
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@exodusultima, I have heard from several people who work "off the block" that most of the coke us normal people see doesn't even do the drug justice. Is the difference really that huge? I've done what I thought was great blow, to have others say it was stomped as hell. On a seperate note, I don't know if you still dabble, but do any SR vendors come close to your expectations? If that's not a relevant question, how do you discern real coke from street coke?
Yes. I don't know about all manufacturers, but many, (manufacturers = the well armed well politically protected paramilitary in camo in the jungle with automatic weapons in developing nations with iron clad control over the farmers), manufacture this drug at a quality that no average consumer ever touches.
How do I think you can tell the difference? Coke above 80 - 90% purity has almost no crash whatsoever, numbs you from nostril to stomach like a US hospital numbs someone about to go into surgery, and if you do a fat line you feel wildly euphoric (king of the world) but you also feel your heart pounding like you're having a heart attack. This is just my opinion based on personal experience, I'm not Mr. King Coke or anything.
I think, basically, what your average low weight street dealer, and certainly your average recreational user does not know, it that when the 250kilo shipment hits the ground from whatever south or central american manufacturer, it is IMMEDIATELY and PROFESSIONALLY cut by a wholesaler in a lab-like manufacturing environment. I think it comes off the boat at about 85 - 97% purity (depending on the cartel) and is taken to a warehouse or wherever and is professionally cut to 40 - 60%, and then spread out to mid level dealers who may or may not cut it, who spread it out to low level dealers (think dudes who buy a 1/4 kilo at a time as far as what I mean by low level, and actually there's a lot of 'fronting' going on really not buying, all the way down the line) who then probably do cut it, thinking their 50% purity coke is 80% purity so that's what they tell everyone. In actuality, the yay is probably testing at about 40% for what people would call really good shit in a bar after a few drinks.
And, of course, we all know, it goes waaaaaaaay down from there. Poor dealer / addict doing too much of his own supply, needing to turn that ounce he got fronted into 1.5 ounces to support his habit. Now we got 25% coke.
this is the way of the world. Not always, but usually.
And in terms of your 2nd question, yeah, there's one guy on SR who has off the boat type purity. I am not him, or affiliated in any way, as a matter of fact, looking through the listings I think it's easy to spot. And not because he's hyping it, he just describes it ... accurately. Description has nothing to do with 'fishscale' or 'rock' or whatever the other advertising you see is.
cheers,
EU
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Wow, nice post my friend.
Yeah, I've been the small guy before, and although I never personally cut my shit, I knew someone was... Guess that's why I never formed a habit with coke. IV is the only way it's worth a fuck in my opinion.
As to who you're talking about in SR - my guess would be the one with the beautiful, snowy white chunks? :)
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I'm fortunate to enjoy, but not have a strong compulsion for, heroin (and to a smaller degree coke). I intend to try meth in the next few weeks, and I hope I don't love it too much. I've heard it's one of the easier substances to "creep up on you," but I'll be sure to post in here if I find it too attractive...
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Really great thread idea, this is very important for everyone to learn. I have quit a number of drugs from the point of addiction to physical dependency, so if anyone needs help on the items I list below that I have gotten out of, by all means ask or PM me as there is just so much information on how to quit drugs out there and everyone's situation is different, so it's difficult to give a "one-for-all" recommendation for stopping.
I have quit the following addictions/dependency's at different points in my life:
1) Cigarettes - 10 cigarettes a day for 3 years
2) Benzodiazepines - 5mg Xanax & 2mg Klonopin per day for 2 years
3) Heroin - 0.5 - 1 gram per day smoked for 6 months
4) Prescription Opiates - 30x 20mg Opana and 90x 8mg Dillaudid for 9 months
5) Marijuana - 6 years daily (2 years growing so I had unlimited amounts)
I have dabbled in other drugs such as coke, ketamine, mushrooms, methamphetamine, and a little ecstasy, but they were never an issue for me. I definitely still use drugs, even some listed above for the past 2-3 years now, but I do not use them for long, definitely not enough to have a problem or crawl over to my dealer. I just don't do these things for long periods of time anymore, it was just a fundamental change. I have never been arrested, hospitalized, kicked out of school, lost my job, or had any major injuries and have been pretty damn lucky all things considered. Feel free to reach out... too many people want to learn how to get the absolute highest without learning how to get yourself out.
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every drug I've used, I felt had a "utility". Weed helps me eat, meth helps me stfu and "just do it", benzos give me a full 9 hours sleep without interruptions. Opiates are cool when I feel like taking a vacation to heaven every other month. When I get home from work its like, "hmmm. what drug shall I partake today..." It's kind of like choosing a value meal at McDonalds. It's trivial.
but cigarettes....
Cigs are the only drug that I feel I am addicted to, that I get cravings for. I've tried to quit for the past year. I quit cold turkey yesterday, giving away my last pack of marlboro lights. This morning i was out in the garage looking for cigarette butts to light up and smoke. Spent a good 30 minutes out there searching for non-spent butts. This is like the the 6-7th time I've done this over the past year. I've been a smoker for 6 years now and my chest hurts, my gums aren't as pink as they used to be, shit I'll prob get lung cancer.
The longest I quit with no gum or cigs happened when I lost some vision in my left eye. I was thinking life is too short and my body's starting to fail on me. I quit and it felt good. But I learned that the lost vision was due to a burst blood vessal, so a week later I said, "YES! I'm not going to die after all!" and bought me a carton of smokes.
I might relapse and buy a pack before work. But I already told every that I was quitting permanently this time.
you wouldn't know this, but I just stared at the screen for 10 minutes. Yeah I've made up my mind, I'm not going to relapse. I'm not going to bum any smokes at work. This chemical doesn't control me. I'm not going to buy a pack before work. I'm going to straight to work not smelling like cigarettes today. I'm quitting this bitch for real now.
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you wouldn't know this, but I just stared at the screen for 10 minutes. Yeah I've made up my mind, I'm not going to relapse. I'm not going to bum any smokes at work. This chemical doesn't control me. I'm not going to buy a pack before work. I'm going to straight to work not smelling like cigarettes today. I'm quitting this bitch for real now.
Do it.
Godspeed.
Cheers,
EU
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I stay doing drugs. I am going to use drugs until the day I die. I do all kinds of drugs but there are 4 things that I don't mess with at all; cocaine, crack, meth, and heroin. If you do use drugs and you fuck with one of those drugs or pain pills you should consider the fact that you may become an addict. I stick to acid, xtc, ghb, and ketamine. Shit like that. I have tons of fun and I enjoy each drug experience. I don't NEED drugs like some of the people I know that use heroin, pain pills, coke, or crack.
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It might sound weird to some, but i'm just getting over Ketamine addiction which has been and still is extremely hard for me to stop even though it has clearly fucked me up a bit.
It started 3 years ago when someone I knew offered me it at a house party, that was it, it was love at first sniff. I suffer from depression and the ket lifted it at first and small amounts made me feel confident euphoric and able to see the world from a different perspective. 1 gram would have lasted me a week. But it soon got worse and worse. I would be doing it at any given chance even at work which I now feel so stupid about. And i just needed more and more to get high. I wasnt even doing it with friends it was just me self medicating with this crazy drug that seemed like the escape I needed.
But then it started to feel different, i was spending so much money on it sometimes buying 3 grams a day and doing it all day until i couldnt cope anymore...i new a few ket heads doing as much as 20gs a day which made them look so awful.
I noticed my short term memory got awful and couldnt remember anything i had just done, i was getting kidney problems and stomach pains. Not as bad as some tho as i never swallowed the drip, i always spat it out. I looked pale and ill and my nose was always red and sore and running. after a binge it would make me feel super depressed and almost like i was started to experience schizophrenic symptoms of hearing voices. i am still using it occasionally but have been forced not too as its just too expensive now and i dnt wana be a souless zombie.
i know ive had some great experiences on it and it can be beautiful and fun but its just a warning if anyone is tempted to use it...
Peace guys
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LOL welcome to Silk Road rehab haha. I aint stopping you heard what im saying? You been seeing me lately? I am a miracle baby.
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This thread is amazing.. I am learning a lot from all of your stories.. I have been doing drugs since I was 16 (now Im 24), mostly MDMA, speed and a variety of different pills/tabs or whatever u call it. I have used these drugs pretty much every day until I turned to 21, then I almost totally stopped for two years, especially with synthetic stuff, only had an occasionally snort of cocaine within these two years.
Few months ago I started using cocaine quite frequently during weekends and I started to like it a lot. Its not that I'm addicted cuz I live well without it, but when I am with those new friends I have who do cocaine, its like I really need it, otherwise the night wont be fun enough, and I really go crazy if I have some cash with me. Like, I don't know how but last week I went totally out of control spending €300 buying 4 grams of cocaine all at once, when I have barely used 2, and I almost felt sick from the usage the day after.
I am really scared about my reaction and the way I behave when it comes to use or buy cocaine. To me its like more than a game, something like really fun that during that specific moment I can't ever get enough and I go totally crazy for.. I don't know if I should be concerned about it and consider it as the beginning of an addiction.
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This is a great idea, well done for this initiative! Any ex coke peeps, I would really like an insight?
Cheers all...
I tried cocaine when I was eighteen and I abused it over the course of a summer. I started out snorting it, then quickly graduated to smoking it. (Never do this.) After a guy that I met at my dealers house asked me whether I've sold myself for crack yet I decided to stop taking it. I didn't want to go that direction in life and I also happened to be out of possessions to sell.
That, and severe cocaine withdrawal is unbearable to me. Usually thinking about the awful withdrawal symptoms that I experienced is what helps me not want to repeat taking it. I also hated how it made my behavior erratic. I became a total asshole at times.
I won't touch cocaine anymore because I'm afraid to lose control again. I do occasionally get thoughts that tell me that the concert would be more fun if I took coke, but I outright disagree without even entertaining it.
Lately I just smoke weed.
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the only drug i find myself doing daily is weed, i would like to smoke less and less often but its hard, it gets me through the week.
i think i would have a much higher risk of developing the same habit with a different (worse) drug if i quit weed
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Really great thread idea, this is very important for everyone to learn. I have quit a number of drugs from the point of addiction to physical dependency, so if anyone needs help on the items I list below that I have gotten out of, by all means ask or PM me as there is just so much information on how to quit drugs out there and everyone's situation is different, so it's difficult to give a "one-for-all" recommendation for stopping.
I have quit the following addictions/dependency's at different points in my life:
1) Cigarettes - 10 cigarettes a day for 3 years
2) Benzodiazepines - 5mg Xanax & 2mg Klonopin per day for 2 years
3) Heroin - 0.5 - 1 gram per day smoked for 6 months
4) Prescription Opiates - 30x 20mg Opana and 90x 8mg Dillaudid for 9 months
5) Marijuana - 6 years daily (2 years growing so I had unlimited amounts)
I have dabbled in other drugs such as coke, ketamine, mushrooms, methamphetamine, and a little ecstasy, but they were never an issue for me. I definitely still use drugs, even some listed above for the past 2-3 years now, but I do not use them for long, definitely not enough to have a problem or crawl over to my dealer. I just don't do these things for long periods of time anymore, it was just a fundamental change. I have never been arrested, hospitalized, kicked out of school, lost my job, or had any major injuries and have been pretty damn lucky all things considered. Feel free to reach out... too many people want to learn how to get the absolute highest without learning how to get yourself out.
I need help giving up the marijuana. I've smoked heavily daily for 6 years.
The main issues I will have when trying to quit are:
Irritability, trouble sleeping, constipation, loss of appetite, and night sweats.
If you (or any other) have relief for any of the above symptoms, please share.
I would like to note that I am not looking to give up one habit for another, been down that road already.
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Battling your addiction with a 'my mind VS the chemical' approach might be useful. Tell yourself that you are stronger than the drug and call yourself a loser if you cave in. Fight through withdrawals as if you are running a marathon or climbing a mountain. Just like runners and mountaineers, your goal is mentally and physically taxing, but don't give up just before the finish-line or in sight of the summit. You should be proud of your mind and its power to abstain. Think about aesthetics and athletes who exercise huge amounts of mental power and self-control to reach their absolute physical and psychological limits. You're doing the same thing when you're quitting. Remind yourself that you are physically capable of quitting and that if you stop taking the drug things will get better. You can overcome any addiction if you want to. The drug has to be your enemy. Feel anger towards the addiction every time the drug invades your thoughts. Learn to hate your addiction by treating all 'positive' thoughts as traps that are luring you back to the drug (e.g. thoughts about 'the good times', 'it's OK in moderation', 'just one more time' etc).
There is a drug on the market called Provigil, that is now prescribed to people that suffer with narcolepsy. Apparently, it will soon be marketed as a drug to help cocaine addicts deal with cravings. If someone is having a problem staying clean for a decent chunk of time due to cravings...might want to look into it.
That's right. Provigil is Modafinil. It's all over SR and regular online pharms. Studies have shown that it can help with quitting an addiction (opiates, coke). There is also evidence that it has neuroprotective and cognitive enhancing properties. It's often labeled a 'smart' drug.
It's a strange drug, the first that I have come across where I really (NB: suspiciously) think there are no downsides to taking it regularly.
I used modafinil for about 10 weeks dosing 100-200mg daily. I was much more switched-on, organized and performed better academically. As an athlete, I also noticed improvements in my focus which seemed to allow me to press beyond my usual limits. It allowed me to stay awake for extended periods however I had no trouble sleeping when I wanted and maintained a regular schedule.
I had tried amphetamine for the same purpose of boosting study and productivity but found it much too addictive. The interesting thing about modafinil/provigil is that it is not addictive. I occasionally forgot to take the pill in the morning and as soon as exams were over I sold what I had left. That was about 5 months ago but I'll be taking it regularly again in a few months. I'd eat it everyday if I could, but it's expensive.
Although I didn't use modafinil to quit drugs, I can see how it would help. If a person really wants to quit, it wouldn't surprise me if modafinil is the catalyst for a really strong, clear and focused will-power that is necessary to overcome some addictions.
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I would like to share a recent experience in which I had low quality cocaine purchased off the streets in a very well populated, coastal city. To sum it up I ended up having a psychotic episode after doing a few lines of this poor quality coke. Now, I am hesitant to try the yak again in fear that I'll end back up at the hospital and my parents will cut me off. I am going on a very special trip soon in which I will be living on ship with some other university students and I really wanted to bring some blow with me. Any ideas guys? Should I risk ordering better quality stuff here and bring it with me? I want it so bad. But is it worth the risk?
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Really great thread idea, this is very important for everyone to learn. I have quit a number of drugs from the point of addiction to physical dependency, so if anyone needs help on the items I list below that I have gotten out of, by all means ask or PM me as there is just so much information on how to quit drugs out there and everyone's situation is different, so it's difficult to give a "one-for-all" recommendation for stopping.
I have quit the following addictions/dependency's at different points in my life:
1) Cigarettes - 10 cigarettes a day for 3 years
2) Benzodiazepines - 5mg Xanax & 2mg Klonopin per day for 2 years
3) Heroin - 0.5 - 1 gram per day smoked for 6 months
4) Prescription Opiates - 30x 20mg Opana and 90x 8mg Dillaudid for 9 months
5) Marijuana - 6 years daily (2 years growing so I had unlimited amounts)
I have dabbled in other drugs such as coke, ketamine, mushrooms, methamphetamine, and a little ecstasy, but they were never an issue for me. I definitely still use drugs, even some listed above for the past 2-3 years now, but I do not use them for long, definitely not enough to have a problem or crawl over to my dealer. I just don't do these things for long periods of time anymore, it was just a fundamental change. I have never been arrested, hospitalized, kicked out of school, lost my job, or had any major injuries and have been pretty damn lucky all things considered. Feel free to reach out... too many people want to learn how to get the absolute highest without learning how to get yourself out.
I need help giving up the marijuana. I've smoked heavily daily for 6 years.
The main issues I will have when trying to quit are:
Irritability, trouble sleeping, constipation, loss of appetite, and night sweats.
If you (or any other) have relief for any of the above symptoms, please share.
I would like to note that I am not looking to give up one habit for another, been down that road already.
I've also quit using a few substances that I had trouble staying sane around. Opiates (oxycodone, etc), cocaine, and marijuana (though I smoke it again, quit 2+yrs), and alcohol. Tolkin said it well when he mentioned that it's your mind that can overcome them. Mind over matter, so to speak. Quitting substances sure isn't easy (I'm working my way off cigarettes now) and it will take a lot of focus. The truth of the matter is that most physical withdrawals are gone in days, some weeks. After that it's mainly adjusting your mindset and lifestyle. Make that drug your enemy! I find it best to take a step back and visualize the whole situation when I'm feeling cravings/pressure. Whatever personal reason you have for wanting to be free of it, keep it in mind and don't convince yourself of any other way. (Not) Soon enough your focus will move to new things and you won't crave as often or without some stimulation. In my experience it helps to pick up and get more engaged in physical activities or new hobbies. Being physical can still give a decent natural "high" which will be a nice break from wanting to get high and new hobbies are great for taking your mind off things.
Still, expect some irritability for a little while. Do what you can to stay positive and warn your family, friends, or co-workers that you may be on edge. Trouble sleeping was something that took a while for me to get over when I stopped smoking marijuana (I had also smoked ~6-7years at the time). Going on a run or doing some pushups at night was my solution, made me pass out real quick.
All that said, I haven't touched opiates or coke in many years. Stopped smoking weed for a little more than 2 years. Being off of everything for a while really gave me a clear head (you can feel it) and let me see everything in perspective. I do believe that I "grew" from the experience and learned the real power of my mind in these matters. When I do use drugs these days I do it much more responsibly, with the occasional hail mary.
I believe in you :) and every other human being out there!
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I would like to share a recent experience in which I had low quality cocaine purchased off the streets in a very well populated, coastal city. To sum it up I ended up having a psychotic episode after doing a few lines of this poor quality coke. Now, I am hesitant to try the yak again in fear that I'll end back up at the hospital and my parents will cut me off. I am going on a very special trip soon in which I will be living on ship with some other university students and I really wanted to bring some blow with me. Any ideas guys? Should I risk ordering better quality stuff here and bring it with me? I want it so bad. But is it worth the risk?
I wouldn't recommend bringing coke into a situation where you can get into trouble over it. If you're already paranoid the coke will make it so much worse.
If you're set on it you can always buy a small amount to test beforehand to see how it makes you feel. Cocaine itself can cause psychosis in some people, it's possible that you may be more sensitive to it's negative effects than other people. (I'm open to the fact that it could have been cut as well.) Resist the temptation and don't order more than a single human, or two if you truthfully plan on sharing, can do safely and you shouldn't have problems.
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LOL welcome to Silk Road rehab haha. I aint stopping you heard what im saying? You been seeing me lately? I am a miracle baby.
LOL no kidding. Welcome to SR Rehab: Having a problem with cocaine? We'll get you off it. Here's some meth, try that.
Strung out on meth? ...hmmm... you seem to have an addictive personality ... Have you tried heroin?
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lol I am going to stay high til I die. All you weak minded folks shouldnt of got on drugs. No matter what you do you will always end up comming back for more. Me Imma smoke tuff on some dro. Me imma drink til im drunk. Pop x pills and trip balls. While baseheads stay on that meth, that crack, coke, heroin, pain pills. I would suggest avoiding any of those things. Just stick with weed, alcohol, xtc, shrooms, acid, you know normal shit!
please never post again
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This might not be as big as quitting heroin or coke or meth, but...
I used to smoke, and I just couldn't deal with the smell of the smoke and how it stuck to me anymore. I basically showered every single time I had a cig at home. I felt like a total OCDer and it became too much of a hassle to keep showering and brushing my teeth after so I just said "fuck it, that's enough" and got an e-cig to help ease me off and then that was it. E-cigs really work, guys.
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lol I am going to stay high til I die. All you weak minded folks shouldnt of got on drugs. No matter what you do you will always end up comming back for more. Me Imma smoke tuff on some dro. Me imma drink til im drunk. Pop x pills and trip balls. While baseheads stay on that meth, that crack, coke, heroin, pain pills. I would suggest avoiding any of those things. Just stick with weed, alcohol, xtc, shrooms, acid, you know normal shit!
please never post again
Agreed. I have noticed a lot of "my drug use is superior to your drug use" going on around here.
The only drug I ever had a problem with is nitrous oxide. I was on the biggest binge I had ever been on with the stuff and one day noticed my face felt weird. Over the next few weeks it kept getting more and more tingly, then went numb. I guess I ran out of b12. I should have had enough from meat in my diet, but I might have an absorption problem. Vitamins seemed to send symptoms into the right direction, but I just used that as an excuse to do more. I ended up getting scared of the possibility of permanent nerve damage, and the vitamins weren't really doing much of anything after all. I ended up buying hydroxocobalamin (an easier to absorb form of b12) and stayed off it. It might not sound like it would be hard to quit, but I was addicted. I have even been weak since quitting and done it a few more times, but the knowledge that I was being so stupid sucked the fun out of it.
Coke? Opiates? Amphetamines? Alcohol? Never a problem. Never caused a single craving. It was a soft drug that nearly caused permanent damage to me. The cravings felt impossible to resist. I've never had cravings like that for any other drug. The craving that would go in an extremely distant second place would probably be pot when I really want to go to sleep, if you can even call that a craving. Meth is easy for me to stop using. I often go weeks without using it just because I don't feel like using it, even though I have plenty. The idea of having nitrous oxide but not using it was simply incomprehensible back then. We all have different strengths and weaknesses.
So go ahead and ride your high horse Lil Coner, but don't forget that you are a hard drug user, since you use alcohol. Your attitude is one of a future addict, and a current asshole.
uhhh can relate to nos being addictive... facking call it hippy crack over here ha ha
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great post bro. you're all going to laugh at this but i need help quitting marijuana. it makes me paranoid and aggressive but nothing seems remotely interesting unless i'm high. any ideas? i appreciate all responses :)
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lol I am going to stay high til I die. All you weak minded folks shouldnt of got on drugs. No matter what you do you will always end up comming back for more. Me Imma smoke tuff on some dro. Me imma drink til im drunk. Pop x pills and trip balls. While baseheads stay on that meth, that crack, coke, heroin, pain pills. I would suggest avoiding any of those things. Just stick with weed, alcohol, xtc, shrooms, acid, you know normal shit!
please never post again
Agreed. I have noticed a lot of "my drug use is superior to your drug use" going on around here.
Reminds me of when I was addicted to DXM years ago and this recovering junkie said, "You don't even do real drugs. Do a real drug like heroin. DXM is for pussies." He died a month later from a relapse.
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Reminds me of when I was addicted to DXM years ago and this recovering junkie said, "You don't even do real drugs. Do a real drug like heroin. DXM is for pussies." He died a month later from a relapse.
Wow. What an asshole.
But that's the thing with (mental) addiction: the addict is consciously and unconsciously looking for ways to justify her habit. "I'm different from other people" and "My drug of choice is different from other people's drug of choice" are pretty natural opinions to have in that situation. Oh yeah he's struggling with alcohol, but meth isn't like that. Oh sure, the guys who shoot up heroin with me are all addicted, but I have much more willpower than that. It's their fault for using an inferior drug/being weak-minded, but *I* am immune because of X, Y and Z rationalizations.
In the end, of course, X, Y and Z are bullshit. if you can manage to shoot up H once a month and be fine with it, that's cool. If you're doing it more than once a week you're probably either addicted or in the final stages towards becoming so. And if you do it more than once a day, you're fucked. But people are proud, and we always think that these things apply only to other people, that we're better, stronger and more disciplined than all those other apes out there.
We're not, though. We ARE those other apes out there, we're just wearing different suits. Long before I ever tried my second drug (alcohol being the first), I decided that for each drug I tried, I'd set a limit for myself beforehand (e.g. "never more than once every ten days, never more than one redose" is my ketamine rule). The limit is supposed to be strict, so that I'll most certainly not be (chemically) addicted when I reach it. And if I pass it, then I forbid myself from ever touching that substance again. That's right. I treat myself as a recovering addict, even though I've never actually had an addiction. I've never broken my limit or negotiated with it ("It's been a month since I've done this, so it's okay to do it two days in a row this once" would be such a negotiation) and I know that the frustration I"d feel if I ever did break it would be huge - hopefully enough to get me to stop doing that drug, since the limit is meant to be at a pre-addiction level.
I think every responsible drug user should have a "safety net" system like mine, if nothing else for the peace-of-mind it can offer.Better safe than sorry. But those of us who are dealing with an addiction - to ANYTHING - deserve our sympathy, not our scorn. You guys are fighting a demon that's lurking just around the corner for everyone. It doesn't matter that the demon is there for a different reason, or that some people don't believe it'll come for them. It's there, it's real and it's ugly. We have to fight it together!
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Reminds me of when I was addicted to DXM years ago and this recovering junkie said, "You don't even do real drugs. Do a real drug like heroin. DXM is for pussies." He died a month later from a relapse.
Wow. What an asshole.
But that's the thing with (mental) addiction: the addict is consciously and unconsciously looking for ways to justify her habit. "I'm different from other people" and "My drug of choice is different from other people's drug of choice" are pretty natural opinions to have in that situation. Oh yeah he's struggling with alcohol, but meth isn't like that. Oh sure, the guys who shoot up heroin with me are all addicted, but I have much more willpower than that. It's their fault for using an inferior drug/being weak-minded, but *I* am immune because of X, Y and Z rationalizations.
In the end, of course, X, Y and Z are bullshit. if you can manage to shoot up H once a month and be fine with it, that's cool. If you're doing it more than once a week you're probably either addicted or in the final stages towards becoming so. And if you do it more than once a day, you're fucked. But people are proud, and we always think that these things apply only to other people, that we're better, stronger and more disciplined than all those other apes out there.
We're not, though. We ARE those other apes out there, we're just wearing different suits. Long before I ever tried my second drug (alcohol being the first), I decided that for each drug I tried, I'd set a limit for myself beforehand (e.g. "never more than once every ten days, never more than one redose" is my ketamine rule). The limit is supposed to be strict, so that I'll most certainly not be (chemically) addicted when I reach it. And if I pass it, then I forbid myself from ever touching that substance again. That's right. I treat myself as a recovering addict, even though I've never actually had an addiction. I've never broken my limit or negotiated with it ("It's been a month since I've done this, so it's okay to do it two days in a row this once" would be such a negotiation) and I know that the frustration I"d feel if I ever did break it would be huge - hopefully enough to get me to stop doing that drug, since the limit is meant to be at a pre-addiction level.
I think every responsible drug user should have a "safety net" system like mine, if nothing else for the peace-of-mind it can offer.Better safe than sorry. But those of us who are dealing with an addiction - to ANYTHING - deserve our sympathy, not our scorn. You guys are fighting a demon that's lurking just around the corner for everyone. It doesn't matter that the demon is there for a different reason, or that some people don't believe it'll come for them. It's there, it's real and it's ugly. We have to fight it together!
What a great post! I tried a similar system of setting limits for myself, but my problem is that I'm all about pushing limits in every facet of life and finding new things; so that didn't work out very well.
I've been self-medicating with DXM for quite some time...at this point I'm not sure if I would call it an addiction or just a self-prescription. It's worked better for me than any anti-depressant I've used. I can do a really light dose and go through a day feeling completely fantastic; not high, just getting exactly the boost I need to get out there and do "normal people stuff." But I have this constant nagging feeling that I should be able to do that without using DXM as a crutch.
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This might not be as big as quitting heroin or coke or meth, but...
I used to smoke, and I just couldn't deal with the smell of the smoke and how it stuck to me anymore. I basically showered every single time I had a cig at home. I felt like a total OCDer and it became too much of a hassle to keep showering and brushing my teeth after so I just said "fuck it, that's enough" and got an e-cig to help ease me off and then that was it. E-cigs really work, guys.
Depending on how addicted you are, it can be medically serious and the withdrawals can be agonizing. I moved to e-cig and cut down a lot on the nicotine, never felt better.
Also, ibogaine when used properly can get you off of opiates with little to no withdrawal. Look it up, and be aware that if you have ANY opiates in you when it is administered, it can KILL you. If you're serious about quitting, do your homework and get a medically knowledgeable babysitter and some ibogaine.
As for coke addiction, get some clean MDMA, roll with someone who cares about your health, and confront your addiction (like counseling) while under MDMA's effects. I got a friend off of a 12 year coke addiction this way now she doesn't even drink, 18 months later. Stone sober. Two others I knew personally had zero desire for stimulants after rolling in a therapeutic setting.
However you get clean, get clean and stay clean. Look at the addicts around you and how they've changed over the years. That WILL be you if you don't get serious. I don't advocate that everyone be sober, but we all know the damage some of these drugs can do, and I wish the best for anyone who wants to quit.
-yaosh
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Ahh drug addiction. The scourge. The fear. I've been dealing with drugs/addiction for 25+ years in some capacity - nearly my entire life. I've been on just about all sides of the issue too. That includes watching addiction destroy people, being nearly destroyed by it myself, casually using, not-so-casually using, and even getting a double degree in Psych and Criminal Justice for an eventual goal of working as a drug counselor. I've also got most of Erowid committed to memory and I've done every substance I could get my hands on except that I turned down meth the one time I saw it (because it was brown - that turned out to be a good idea) and I never shot heroin even though I have had a rig and dope at the same time. Ditto cuh-caine - have had the llello and a rig at the same time but didn't want to combine them (that particular llello was cut with inositol - I know cus I was there when he cut it). Other than that, though..... One time in college someone asked me to list out all the drugs I've done and how I've done them and I listed them one at a time line by line - it was four pages single spaced. That was more than ten years ago.
The main thing I've learned? Just about everything people outside the drug scene say about drugs = total fucking fiction, to the point where it pissed me off enough that I wanted to get into the field myself to spread ACTUAL information. If you're like me, people have been saying shit to you your whole life like "omg if you snort 50 milligrams of cocaine you will be sucking DICK by the next morning!!!!" and other complete bullshit. At one point or another I've been told the same sort of story about every drug. I have just nodded and smiled, even back when I had to sit through the stupid DARE program. Even as a lilkid I knew that was horseshit.
The second biggest thing I've learned? The dangerous drugs that will grab you up real quick are the ones you can get any time you want. This is especially true for the drugs you can buy at the damn 711 around the corner. Yeah that's right - I think tobacco and alcohol are the worst drugs there are. It doesn't take very long at all to get hooked on one or the other, and in doing so you ensure that you are going to have a problem for the rest of your life even if/when you quit. I've been addicted to both and have had many other friends who have been addicted to both. It's not a mental thing, it's not a cute thing, it's not a cool thing, and you can and will feel terrible if/when you try to stop. I lived in NYC for a little while after college and I picked up a nasty booze habit there. I was a habitual drunk. Eventually (read: very quickly) it started affecting my work and what few personal relationships I had. A little later I started noticing it. Then I tried to stop.
The thing about booze and tobacco is that if you have large amounts of misery/anxiety you are dealing with, these two drugs WORK. Forget about all that nonsense about Ketamine curing depression - people have been using booze and smokes to medicate their depression for ages. They work! And by the time you realize that, your brain has already literally changed its structure to accommodate the Cure. You are too late. I really only stopped drinking heavily on a daily basis a few years later (after many unsuccessful attempts) when I got a DUI. I actually wasn't even drunk when I got the DUI - not mentally, anyway. I hadn't been drinking! But I blew over the limit anyway.... I dried out in jail and it was miserable. I got out and bought some booze to kill the terrible mental and physical feelings. Then over the next few days I realized just how much that DUI was going to cost and realized that I could barely afford to keep eating, much less being a drunk. I stopped by necessity. It became something I no longer could get any time I wanted. That's how it stopped.
My story is my story, but it is the exact.same.fucking.story for no fewer than five people I know, and I don't know that many people! In lots of cases your mileage may vary but in this case .... No.
Ditto cigarettes. You start smoking you are a smoker for life, even if you quit. I smoked for years and quit five years ago but I still have cravings daily. How did I quit? I tried lots of times with willpower, and I even quit for a year using willpower alone, but eventually I was like fuck having constant cravings and I gave in. Then I watched my dad die of lung cancer right in front of me. He was 56.
I quit by imagining that if I smoked another cigarette it would be like punching him in the face while he was lying there shriveled and near death like he was the last time I saw him, two days before he died.
^^^ Stronger than my stupid little cravings.
Ok so booze and tobacco whatever. Bottom line here is that you only get addicted to shit you can get any time you want it. This is why I like SR so much. I'm not afraid to smoke some meth or shoot some her'ron or whatever-the-fuck from SR because after it's gone, it's gone. For me to go through Dwolla + Mt Gox + SR + Some seller shipping it whenever + USPS ........ there's no possible way I can decide "Hey I want Chemical X" and get it in less than a week.
Not true for the pills I've been addicted to. Sure I'd done random pills here and there before - just about every one that can be done for fun. I did whatever the hell I wanted to with them to get the most out of them. Yeah I've shot pills before like a retard, so what? Friend X says "omg wanna shoot 8mg of Dilaudid" I say "fuck yeah I do" .... Cus why not? The only only only time I've ever gotten addicted to anything after one try is sex. And I'm even partly kidding about that. Seriously it's not possible to get addicted to something after doing it one time. If you do get addicted after one time, *you were addicted before you tried it*.
I'll repeat that: if you get addicted after trying a drug one time, *you were addicted to the drug before you took it*.... I've had this idea for a long time and I've had it confirmed over and over and over again. Even with the crazy-drug-turned-punchline that is crack. The couple people I know who have picked up a crack habit were like "OMG CRACK" before they ever even saw it. 100% of them. Otherwise they wouldn't have smoked crack! Duh!
Anyway. After having too many years of experience with pills and knowing lots of other people who do too, I can say that I have only been addicted to pills I had a prescription for. Because of the basic principle that you only get addicted to shit that is readily available, and what is more readily available than shit in a pill bottle on your desk? I know of this happening with just about every Rx that there is.
So where am I going with this? Cut off your supply! The only other way to stop is by something fucking HORRIBLE happening in your life - pretty much by watching someone you love die/almost die or by you personally going to jail (I've found that it's quite easy to watch someone else go to jail and say "that'll never be me"....).
Cutting off the supply breaks the physical addiction - intrinsically and tautologically - every time, 100% guaranteed. How can you have a physical addiction to something you can't get?
The real problem is the mental part. Someone said in an earlier post that lots of people don't quit cus they think its hard. That thought makes it hard. I'm not going to tell you that wds are fun because they aren't. But by the time you get to a point where you'd get the wds from your stupid mistakes, isn't your life WAY worse already? Do you want to be controlled by something so small? "How could I let this bring me back to my knees" ....
"WAHH but I can't stop" = horse shit. You are here looking for help, so you're already halfway there. The most intense wds come from IV opiates. You will feel intensely bad, probably worse than you'll ever feel in your life ..... Well, when I was a kid I had a flu and an ear infection in both ears and I was laid up for two weeks and it was fucking miserable. And you know how I got through that? ....... I didn't! Time passed! I just gritted my teeth and went through it.
"WAHHH it's not that easy" = bullshit. You got yourself into this mess - get yourself out of it. You can do it. I don't know you but I'm pretty sure I've seen people weaker than you with bigger habits than you kick, for good. How do I know their habits are bigger than yours? Because you're reading. . .
"WAHHHHHHH but I'll be sick for THREE WHOLE DAYS!!" = you are a pussy. Don't be that so much.
That's my guide to kicking opiates. If you ask me opiate wds are cake compared to some of the others out there. For example, fucking XANAX. Sure opiate wds are more acutely horrible but they're over after a few days. Xanax wds can take *months* ... Yes *MONTHS*. And after a few days your physical symptoms will disappear and after a few weeks you might start sleeping ok again, but you're going to feel like shooting yourself in the face for a very very long time. Yes, literally. I've been there and know many other people who have been there - you will literally feel suicidal trying to stop a bad Xanax habit, more so the worse your habit is.
Oh and Xanax wds can cause seizures for MONTHS too. I've seen this happen in several people too - the first time I saw it and my friend said it was from stopping Xanax several weeks earlier I called BS on him but then I've seen it happen over and over again. . . That *sucks*. I was lucky in this department. You won't be. ..... Even if you will be, you have to assume you won't be.
In other words, cautionary tale : don't start thinking Xanax is innocuous and start taking twenty of them a day for five years or something ridiculous. And if you do think you have/are developing a Xanax problem, *taper off* don't just stop. Seriously. EMTs have said over and over again that seizures from people abruptly stopping Xanax are a frequent occurrence for them. My friend had over a dozen (probably closer to two dozen) seizures in two months. The last one he had was actually many seizures (I counted it as one in the previous sentence, btw) - he seized something like 8 or 9 times in a row one afternoon and ended up in a coma for two days. Luckily he's been seizure-free since then but doc told him that he needs to watch out for that FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE. This is from a habit of ~8mg a day which had built up from 2mg over a period of about three years.
I picked up other addictions to pills from actually having legitimate prescriptions for legitimate conditions. After a couple months taking Adderall for ADD or taking Oxy/Vicodin/whatever for pain, you pick up both a tolerance and a habit. When I stopped taking both medicines, I can say that the return of the conditions they were treating was far worse than the wd symptoms of the drugs. Even when I was snorting 30mg roxis on a daily basis like a retard.
Other rules of thumb? If you can get more of it tonight, don't fucking shoot it into your veins this afternoon. You will want more of it tonight. Actually, your veins will want more of it tonight.
Which leads me to this point that may help someone out there (certainly helped me in a lot of different ways): what you think of as "you" is a series of electrical firings in your brain. Or a soul. Or whatever the fuck you want to call it. But you are not your body - you need to think of your different body parts as completely separate beings. I first had this thought when I was a teenager and would have a ridiculously out of control libido - it wasn't *me* that wanted it. I wasn't making a conscious choice to say "I would like sexual release right now" - it was after the fact. Me = the last person to know that. Similarly, your veins will want more of the drugs you put in them. Obviously this isn't literally true but it's a helpful illustration for drugs/sex/a lot of other things.
Finally, remember that it's possible to get addicted to anything. ANYTHING. If you think of addiction as a solely physical phenomenon (ie, you stop taking the drug and you get physically ill), there are only a handful of addictive drugs and you already know what they are.
But mentally? You can get addicted to ANYTHING! Books. Money. Music. Light. Violence. Anything. You do this by integrating it into your personality. I was "addicted" to weed for a while because I was the weed man. I sold it for a while, and always had it for many years. It was integral to who I was as a person. The only way to kill that kind of addiction is to fundamentally change your identity. I was aware of that but consciously chose not to - in that case, I really could've stopped any time I wanted to but I just didn't wanna. Any coffee snobs out there? You are probably addicted to caffeine. You are also "addicted" to coffee itself.
Don't believe me? Explain what the fuck decaf coffee and nonalcoholic beer are for. Ritual. Because some guys like to Watch The Game and drink beer. And some people simply Need Their Morning Coffee.
You can use this information to effect personal growth. Sure you can use it to help with an addiction to Whatever, but you can also use it to develop an addiction purposefully. Addiction gets stigmatized because it has such a negative connotation. And it deserves it. Don't get me wrong here - addiction is fucking TERRIBLE, even though everything I've said to this point is basically "you absolutely can quit it's not so bad".. It IS bad. It sucks! Nobody wants to kick an anything habit! Even really innocuous ones. Just think of booze - nobody wants a damn hangover and people will go to huge lengths to avoid it, up to and including developing a really bad hair-of-the-dog problem. And that only lasts for a few hours!
A minor opiate addiction will lead to symptoms like the common cold. It'll lessen in intensity and disappear after a short while. So with the very minimum opiate addiction, your "withdrawal symptoms" = your nose will run for 36 hours or so and you'll feel Blah, maybe for 3 days. That is sooooooooooo smmallllll but guess what? IT SUCKS! Nobody wants a damn cold, even a minor one!
So because even a minor drug addiction is a pretty miserable experience, addiction gets a much-deserved negative connotation, but you can make yourself get addicted to positive things by doing the reverse of trying to stop: make it part of your personality instead of excising it. Those people you see running marathons? Those people are addicted to exercise just as strongly as IV her'ron users are addicted to her'ron. I won't say it sucks for them just as badly to stop, but they would feel pretty shitty if they stopped exercising, even for just a few days.
Ever go click around Wikipedia? That turns into compulsive use pretty quick. You'll be learning, though.
And so on, and so on, and so on.
..... So that. That's my two cents.
And since this may be the only post I've made so far that is actually 100% serious I feel the need to include a summary not so serious, because I am addicted to humor:
TO SUM UP:
1- Lord loves a working man
2- Don't trust whitey
3- See a doctor and get rid of it
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Ahh drug addiction. The scourge. The fear. I've been dealing with drugs/addiction for 25+ years in some capacity - nearly my entire life. I've been on just about all sides of the issue too. That includes watching addiction destroy people, being nearly destroyed by it myself, casually using, not-so-casually using, and even getting a double degree in Psych and Criminal Justice for an eventual goal of working as a drug counselor. I've also got most of Erowid committed to memory and I've done every substance I could get my hands on except that I turned down meth the one time I saw it (because it was brown - that turned out to be a good idea) and I never shot heroin even though I have had a rig and dope at the same time. Ditto cuh-caine - have had the llello and a rig at the same time but didn't want to combine them (that particular llello was cut with inositol - I know cus I was there when he cut it). Other than that, though..... One time in college someone asked me to list out all the drugs I've done and how I've done them and I listed them one at a time line by line - it was four pages single spaced. That was more than ten years ago.
The main thing I've learned? Just about everything people outside the drug scene say about drugs = total fucking fiction, to the point where it pissed me off enough that I wanted to get into the field myself to spread ACTUAL information. If you're like me, people have been saying shit to you your whole life like "omg if you snort 50 milligrams of cocaine you will be sucking DICK by the next morning!!!!" and other complete bullshit. At one point or another I've been told the same sort of story about every drug. I have just nodded and smiled, even back when I had to sit through the stupid DARE program. Even as a lilkid I knew that was horseshit.
The second biggest thing I've learned? The dangerous drugs that will grab you up real quick are the ones you can get any time you want. This is especially true for the drugs you can buy at the damn 711 around the corner. Yeah that's right - I think tobacco and alcohol are the worst drugs there are. It doesn't take very long at all to get hooked on one or the other, and in doing so you ensure that you are going to have a problem for the rest of your life even if/when you quit. I've been addicted to both and have had many other friends who have been addicted to both. It's not a mental thing, it's not a cute thing, it's not a cool thing, and you can and will feel terrible if/when you try to stop. I lived in NYC for a little while after college and I picked up a nasty booze habit there. I was a habitual drunk. Eventually (read: very quickly) it started affecting my work and what few personal relationships I had. A little later I started noticing it. Then I tried to stop.
The thing about booze and tobacco is that if you have large amounts of misery/anxiety you are dealing with, these two drugs WORK. Forget about all that nonsense about Ketamine curing depression - people have been using booze and smokes to medicate their depression for ages. They work! And by the time you realize that, your brain has already literally changed its structure to accommodate the Cure. You are too late. I really only stopped drinking heavily on a daily basis a few years later (after many unsuccessful attempts) when I got a DUI. I actually wasn't even drunk when I got the DUI - not mentally, anyway. I hadn't been drinking! But I blew over the limit anyway.... I dried out in jail and it was miserable. I got out and bought some booze to kill the terrible mental and physical feelings. Then over the next few days I realized just how much that DUI was going to cost and realized that I could barely afford to keep eating, much less being a drunk. I stopped by necessity. It became something I no longer could get any time I wanted. That's how it stopped.
My story is my story, but it is the exact.same.fucking.story for no fewer than five people I know, and I don't know that many people! In lots of cases your mileage may vary but in this case .... No.
Ditto cigarettes. You start smoking you are a smoker for life, even if you quit. I smoked for years and quit five years ago but I still have cravings daily. How did I quit? I tried lots of times with willpower, and I even quit for a year using willpower alone, but eventually I was like fuck having constant cravings and I gave in. Then I watched my dad die of lung cancer right in front of me. He was 56.
I quit by imagining that if I smoked another cigarette it would be like punching him in the face while he was lying there shriveled and near death like he was the last time I saw him, two days before he died.
^^^ Stronger than my stupid little cravings.
Ok so booze and tobacco whatever. Bottom line here is that you only get addicted to shit you can get any time you want it. This is why I like SR so much. I'm not afraid to smoke some meth or shoot some her'ron or whatever-the-fuck from SR because after it's gone, it's gone. For me to go through Dwolla + Mt Gox + SR + Some seller shipping it whenever + USPS ........ there's no possible way I can decide "Hey I want Chemical X" and get it in less than a week.
Not true for the pills I've been addicted to. Sure I'd done random pills here and there before - just about every one that can be done for fun. I did whatever the hell I wanted to with them to get the most out of them. Yeah I've shot pills before like a retard, so what? Friend X says "omg wanna shoot 8mg of Dilaudid" I say "fuck yeah I do" .... Cus why not? The only only only time I've ever gotten addicted to anything after one try is sex. And I'm even partly kidding about that. Seriously it's not possible to get addicted to something after doing it one time. If you do get addicted after one time, *you were addicted before you tried it*.
I'll repeat that: if you get addicted after trying a drug one time, *you were addicted to the drug before you took it*.... I've had this idea for a long time and I've had it confirmed over and over and over again. Even with the crazy-drug-turned-punchline that is crack. The couple people I know who have picked up a crack habit were like "OMG CRACK" before they ever even saw it. 100% of them. Otherwise they wouldn't have smoked crack! Duh!
Anyway. After having too many years of experience with pills and knowing lots of other people who do too, I can say that I have only been addicted to pills I had a prescription for. Because of the basic principle that you only get addicted to shit that is readily available, and what is more readily available than shit in a pill bottle on your desk? I know of this happening with just about every Rx that there is.
So where am I going with this? Cut off your supply! The only other way to stop is by something fucking HORRIBLE happening in your life - pretty much by watching someone you love die/almost die or by you personally going to jail (I've found that it's quite easy to watch someone else go to jail and say "that'll never be me"....).
Cutting off the supply breaks the physical addiction - intrinsically and tautologically - every time, 100% guaranteed. How can you have a physical addiction to something you can't get?
The real problem is the mental part. Someone said in an earlier post that lots of people don't quit cus they think its hard. That thought makes it hard. I'm not going to tell you that wds are fun because they aren't. But by the time you get to a point where you'd get the wds from your stupid mistakes, isn't your life WAY worse already? Do you want to be controlled by something so small? "How could I let this bring me back to my knees" ....
"WAHH but I can't stop" = horse shit. You are here looking for help, so you're already halfway there. The most intense wds come from IV opiates. You will feel intensely bad, probably worse than you'll ever feel in your life ..... Well, when I was a kid I had a flu and an ear infection in both ears and I was laid up for two weeks and it was fucking miserable. And you know how I got through that? ....... I didn't! Time passed! I just gritted my teeth and went through it.
"WAHHH it's not that easy" = bullshit. You got yourself into this mess - get yourself out of it. You can do it. I don't know you but I'm pretty sure I've seen people weaker than you with bigger habits than you kick, for good. How do I know their habits are bigger than yours? Because you're reading. . .
"WAHHHHHHH but I'll be sick for THREE WHOLE DAYS!!" = you are a pussy. Don't be that so much.
That's my guide to kicking opiates. If you ask me opiate wds are cake compared to some of the others out there. For example, fucking XANAX. Sure opiate wds are more acutely horrible but they're over after a few days. Xanax wds can take *months* ... Yes *MONTHS*. And after a few days your physical symptoms will disappear and after a few weeks you might start sleeping ok again, but you're going to feel like shooting yourself in the face for a very very long time. Yes, literally. I've been there and know many other people who have been there - you will literally feel suicidal trying to stop a bad Xanax habit, more so the worse your habit is.
Oh and Xanax wds can cause seizures for MONTHS too. I've seen this happen in several people too - the first time I saw it and my friend said it was from stopping Xanax several weeks earlier I called BS on him but then I've seen it happen over and over again. . . That *sucks*. I was lucky in this department. You won't be. ..... Even if you will be, you have to assume you won't be.
In other words, cautionary tale : don't start thinking Xanax is innocuous and start taking twenty of them a day for five years or something ridiculous. And if you do think you have/are developing a Xanax problem, *taper off* don't just stop. Seriously. EMTs have said over and over again that seizures from people abruptly stopping Xanax are a frequent occurrence for them. My friend had over a dozen (probably closer to two dozen) seizures in two months. The last one he had was actually many seizures (I counted it as one in the previous sentence, btw) - he seized something like 8 or 9 times in a row one afternoon and ended up in a coma for two days. Luckily he's been seizure-free since then but doc told him that he needs to watch out for that FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE. This is from a habit of ~8mg a day which had built up from 2mg over a period of about three years.
I picked up other addictions to pills from actually having legitimate prescriptions for legitimate conditions. After a couple months taking Adderall for ADD or taking Oxy/Vicodin/whatever for pain, you pick up both a tolerance and a habit. When I stopped taking both medicines, I can say that the return of the conditions they were treating was far worse than the wd symptoms of the drugs. Even when I was snorting 30mg roxis on a daily basis like a retard.
Other rules of thumb? If you can get more of it tonight, don't fucking shoot it into your veins this afternoon. You will want more of it tonight. Actually, your veins will want more of it tonight.
Which leads me to this point that may help someone out there (certainly helped me in a lot of different ways): what you think of as "you" is a series of electrical firings in your brain. Or a soul. Or whatever the fuck you want to call it. But you are not your body - you need to think of your different body parts as completely separate beings. I first had this thought when I was a teenager and would have a ridiculously out of control libido - it wasn't *me* that wanted it. I wasn't making a conscious choice to say "I would like sexual release right now" - it was after the fact. Me = the last person to know that. Similarly, your veins will want more of the drugs you put in them. Obviously this isn't literally true but it's a helpful illustration for drugs/sex/a lot of other things.
Finally, remember that it's possible to get addicted to anything. ANYTHING. If you think of addiction as a solely physical phenomenon (ie, you stop taking the drug and you get physically ill), there are only a handful of addictive drugs and you already know what they are.
But mentally? You can get addicted to ANYTHING! Books. Money. Music. Light. Violence. Anything. You do this by integrating it into your personality. I was "addicted" to weed for a while because I was the weed man. I sold it for a while, and always had it for many years. It was integral to who I was as a person. The only way to kill that kind of addiction is to fundamentally change your identity. I was aware of that but consciously chose not to - in that case, I really could've stopped any time I wanted to but I just didn't wanna. Any coffee snobs out there? You are probably addicted to caffeine. You are also "addicted" to coffee itself.
Don't believe me? Explain what the fuck decaf coffee and nonalcoholic beer are for. Ritual. Because some guys like to Watch The Game and drink beer. And some people simply Need Their Morning Coffee.
You can use this information to effect personal growth. Sure you can use it to help with an addiction to Whatever, but you can also use it to develop an addiction purposefully. Addiction gets stigmatized because it has such a negative connotation. And it deserves it. Don't get me wrong here - addiction is fucking TERRIBLE, even though everything I've said to this point is basically "you absolutely can quit it's not so bad".. It IS bad. It sucks! Nobody wants to kick an anything habit! Even really innocuous ones. Just think of booze - nobody wants a damn hangover and people will go to huge lengths to avoid it, up to and including developing a really bad hair-of-the-dog problem. And that only lasts for a few hours!
A minor opiate addiction will lead to symptoms like the common cold. It'll lessen in intensity and disappear after a short while. So with the very minimum opiate addiction, your "withdrawal symptoms" = your nose will run for 36 hours or so and you'll feel Blah, maybe for 3 days. That is sooooooooooo smmallllll but guess what? IT SUCKS! Nobody wants a damn cold, even a minor one!
So because even a minor drug addiction is a pretty miserable experience, addiction gets a much-deserved negative connotation, but you can make yourself get addicted to positive things by doing the reverse of trying to stop: make it part of your personality instead of excising it. Those people you see running marathons? Those people are addicted to exercise just as strongly as IV her'ron users are addicted to her'ron. I won't say it sucks for them just as badly to stop, but they would feel pretty shitty if they stopped exercising, even for just a few days.
Ever go click around Wikipedia? That turns into compulsive use pretty quick. You'll be learning, though.
And so on, and so on, and so on.
..... So that. That's my two cents.
And since this may be the only post I've made so far that is actually 100% serious I feel the need to include a summary not so serious, because I am addicted to humor:
TO SUM UP:
1- Lord loves a working man
2- Don't trust whitey
3- See a doctor and get rid of it
Excellent post. Bravo.
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Reminds me of when I was addicted to DXM years ago and this recovering junkie said, "You don't even do real drugs. Do a real drug like heroin. DXM is for pussies." He died a month later from a relapse.
Wow. What an asshole.
But that's the thing with (mental) addiction: the addict is consciously and unconsciously looking for ways to justify her habit. "I'm different from other people" and "My drug of choice is different from other people's drug of choice" are pretty natural opinions to have in that situation. Oh yeah he's struggling with alcohol, but meth isn't like that. Oh sure, the guys who shoot up heroin with me are all addicted, but I have much more willpower than that. It's their fault for using an inferior drug/being weak-minded, but *I* am immune because of X, Y and Z rationalizations.
In the end, of course, X, Y and Z are bullshit. if you can manage to shoot up H once a month and be fine with it, that's cool. If you're doing it more than once a week you're probably either addicted or in the final stages towards becoming so. And if you do it more than once a day, you're fucked. But people are proud, and we always think that these things apply only to other people, that we're better, stronger and more disciplined than all those other apes out there.
We're not, though. We ARE those other apes out there, we're just wearing different suits. Long before I ever tried my second drug (alcohol being the first), I decided that for each drug I tried, I'd set a limit for myself beforehand (e.g. "never more than once every ten days, never more than one redose" is my ketamine rule). The limit is supposed to be strict, so that I'll most certainly not be (chemically) addicted when I reach it. And if I pass it, then I forbid myself from ever touching that substance again. That's right. I treat myself as a recovering addict, even though I've never actually had an addiction. I've never broken my limit or negotiated with it ("It's been a month since I've done this, so it's okay to do it two days in a row this once" would be such a negotiation) and I know that the frustration I"d feel if I ever did break it would be huge - hopefully enough to get me to stop doing that drug, since the limit is meant to be at a pre-addiction level.
I think every responsible drug user should have a "safety net" system like mine, if nothing else for the peace-of-mind it can offer.Better safe than sorry. But those of us who are dealing with an addiction - to ANYTHING - deserve our sympathy, not our scorn. You guys are fighting a demon that's lurking just around the corner for everyone. It doesn't matter that the demon is there for a different reason, or that some people don't believe it'll come for them. It's there, it's real and it's ugly. We have to fight it together!
People in the rooms can be fucking assholes. I've heard that shit too. "You don't have a problem." or "You need to back out until you hit bottom." No shit on that last one. My OWN FUCKIN SPONSOR told me that shit. Worthless piece of shit. Sorry, guys. lol. I'm done venting.
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Have a love-hate relationship with benzodiazepines, having painstakingly so felt how these 'little devils' work and when they wear off, always in the back of my mind there is a 'need' to take more and then the conscientiousness about 'needing it', and really needing it and feeling like I'm taking a road that's a bit too comfy, since they work so damn well it's hard not to pop another for convenience's sake. I am truly a benzo man, but recently I gathered the guts to try LSD, obviously something completely different and seemingly chaotic neutral act for someone with an anxiety disorder.
Like so many others here I have began systematically experimenting with drugs because in my mind I think I will stumble upon something that can increase my life quality. I promised myself this year I was gonna do all I can to live a better life and 'just pushing myself' and exercising doesn't work for me without the combination of some chemical concoction.
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Completely agree with those who hate the stigma attached to certain drugs, and think that 99% of what non-users out there think/hear is bullshit. This is just coming from personal experience, but I've had far worse experiences with "safe" drugs than I've had with illicit stuff. Was seeing a shrink once who prescribed me 1mg of Klonopin 2x per day for anxiety. She told me this was a low dose, and said, "2mg of Klopopin a day does not a junkie make." Well for one, the stuff worked for me for about a week before it stopped helping my ever-present anxiety. Also, the withdrawal was absolute torture. From this "pussy drug," I had brain zaps, vertigo, and excessive sweating for about 6x after I tapered off (didn't go cold turkey). Years later, I still feel like my serotinin is out of whack, and that I'll probably never feel quite right again.
Compare this to my experience with ecstasy, cocaine, and heroin (although I've never been a chronic user) and the side effects were pretty much non-existent after stopping usage.
Sorry for the ramble, but I know the horrors of being physically addicted to a substance, even if it's one that's not considered dangerous or particularly habit forming. Benzo withdrawal is an absolute bitch, and if anyone is struggling with this right now please feel free to reach out to me, if for nothing more than moral support.
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Worst withdrawal medications/drugs:
1. Opiates (unless you now have a prescription on methadone etc. for ex. heroin addicts. if case put benzos on top.)
2. Benzos!
The list may be long but to sum it up, those benzos are very small pills and they seem a whole lot less harmful than a syringe. I have a friend who's an ex. heroin addict and he gets methadone and is having one hellish ordeal with benzos like xanax and rivotril.
One could wonder, is the ultimate downers' 'high', a mix of opioids like oxycodone, and, say.. benzo like flunitrazepam?
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Its sad to see all the people on these forums that are recreational drug users and they're like "I just ordered heroin and syringes, I can't wait to shoot up finally!"... Wtf are you doing... If you are a certain kind of person like myself, you will shoot up for the first time and never ever be able to get back to the person you were before you did it. Hard drugs change the way your brain functions. Heroin and methamphetamine are the grand champs, you go up against them you're gonna lose. Do not, i repeat DO NOT shoot cocaine. Although it's not as hard to quit as heroin, if you shoot coke/crack you will soon be in situations that are really fucking bad. I've been through many rehabs, prison, had friends and family die, done deceptive, desperate, violent things to get my fix.. It's not cool. I'm not gonna talk shit about different methods of recovery, I'm just gonna let people know what has worked and not worked out for me in the past. 12 step groups, I'm sorry, I just can't do it.. Bill Wilson was a complete scumbag and many of the guys who run the show in AA/NA are exactly like him, they may (or may not) be clean/sober but they just channel their darkness into other despicable behavior such as gambling, over eating, and preying sexually on women in the rooms who are emotionally fucked up. I dont give a fuck what kind of rhetoric you wanna throw at me, 12 steps is about finding God, and I just cant do that. On the other hand, I've seen alot of more or less respectable people stay clean for long periods of time and they attribute it all to the steps and the program.
About 2 years ago I went on the methadone clinic for the second time in my life. The first time was maybe 4 years ago and I was forced to go on the clinic by court, I did not want to stop using and I was eventually put in jail for a year where I kicked 60mg of methadone + 2 bundles of heroin a day cold turkey. A month after my release I relapsed and developed a decent habit again. As time went on I was doing crazier shit to get my dope, I was dangerously close to a long prison sentence or getting shot in the face by the cops, not to mention the constant gamble of shooting street drugs (which already put me through overdoses, sepsis infections, and hepatitic C). So I decided to give methadone another try, this time I let them increase my dose to around 100mg and this was the first time since I started shooting dope that I was able to go through the day and not really have it on my mind. I was not a perfect patient by any means, if I had a lot of money maybe once every 6-8 weeks I would cave in and do coke and benzos/dope, but I was actually able to hold a job, all my relationships and general quality of life improved drastically over time. The real value of the clinic for me was that I knew after taking my 100mg that I would have to spend a couple hundred dollars to have enough dope to break through the methadone and it would be weak anyway, most of the "rush" would be from the cut and the high is barely noticeable when your receptors are already occupied by methadone. I've had some pressure from my family to get off methadone, they can't understand what it's like to be a heroin addict and I can't expect them to understand, so there is some conflict about it. I decided to try Ibogaine about 2 months ago under a bit of pressure from my family, I could go on all day about this but I'll just say this: its BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. If you're curious about it, PM me. Anyway, I'm going back on the methadone clinic in about a week. There's alot of things that suck about medication assisted treatment but compared to my old lifestyle, I have to say I might not be here with out it...
I dont even know why I just wrote all that shit, but my main points are these:
1.) If you are gonna start sticking yourself with needles, you are about to make your life a lot fucking harder, you can't even comprehend. Good luck and godspeed.
2.) If you have just had enough of the hard living and being fucked up and strung out and never achieving what you really want, there's lots of different things to help you get clean but none of them are worth shit unless you are really done with it. And for some it takes alot of loss and pain to realize that. The real "success rates" for people using hard drugs are very very fucking low, but you may notice that the "success rate" of NA or therapeutic communities or anything else are about the same as the "success rate" of an addict quitting without those things. Its up to you.
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I have never taken MDMA more often than once a month
I have never taken MDMA without antioxidants
I have never taken acid without at least a 2 week break, and so far I have been unable to tell the difference between a 2 week break(max for tolerance) and longer.
I have taken 2c-b in very tolerance building doses and it seems to give me more tolerance than any other drug
I bought my first pack of cigarettes last week(I will not open it)
I use a lot of weed, but I vaporize it 9 times out of 10 and I have taken a week-long tolerance break fairly recently. I don't think I could go on longer than a week tolerance break because I get bored :3 I love THC and it heals my lungs with cancer fighting vapor after horrible tasting DMT vapor but I know I could quit if I substituted with a few good books, tea, and some alcohol driven sexcapades.
These facts let me stare my mother deep in her eyes and tell her I am being safe, please follow my recommendations and you can do the same :)
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I love THC and it heals my lungs with cancer fighting vapor
I don't want to burst your bubble, but the more recent studies into the cancer-fighting properties of THC concluded that it has a completely negligible effect. Vaporizing is safe, but smoking marijuana actually increases your risk of throat and lung cancer due to the high temperature of the smoke... unless you're in the habit of fitting your joints with cigarette filters or something similar to cool the smoke down. Either way, whatever your ROI, THC does not fight cancer.
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yeh WTF,is wrong with your weirdos.Get off those drugs,and smoke some kushy.....
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well, im ready to quit, i dont actually enjoy the stuff im taking - h - is my current doc. im not full blown years on the gear but for teh last 3 monthsm ive been using every day, snorting high quality smack. i look a mess and my boss is starying to notice, why i look like shit, why do i look tired all the time etc. my missus have given me notice - to be honest that doesnt make me wanna quit... i wanna quit cos i dont want to eventull hit rock bottom - i know (when ive run out of gear) that horrible, self loathing, never doing it again feeling - had it with coke (5 years using regularly - min 4 times a month to 16 a month) functioning at work (because in that job, i could pretty much do what i wanted and somehow managed to get away with it, i was hiding really, days off sick when was coming down etc). I moved jobs, partyly tp get away from my coke friends, but sadly (and this was always going to be the case), im still connected to my dealer, so, now in my new job i continued my coke habit, although managing to use only at weekends, as in this job, my boss sits straight opposite me, and they are very hot on how are you, feeling ok? any probs at work,? getting good feeback from clients, any probs you got come and talk to me? as its soooo obvious when ive used something, even then next day, ive msnsged to curtail my coke usage to weekends only. BTW during the times my boss is asking, if theers any probs, come tslk to him - in my paranoid world (just becasue im paranoid donest make me wrong!) i take that as him wanting me to fess up im using, and whilsgt they may go the option, oh we can get u treatment etc - it will be followed by the quickest ticket out of that job, which is not my aim at all.
Anyway, clealry ive been on a mission to be gettinh "off my face", out of reality more often, as my midweek "fun" was not n option, ive now replaced coke and started spending my money on heroin. as ive said - its been 3 months of using it pretty much everyady. i had a 1 week break in that 3 months, and during that time i recall feelt shit, sweats, insomnia, cant remember if i was puking, buf def high to lo temp, shaking etc but eventually started feeling better but got such bad depression that only way i could thnk my way out of it, was to buy some more heroin, so, eventually thats what i did, which is teh end of 3 months. And now here i am , about to take my last line and finish it all off today - am missing a family party because, of my drug use. my missus wants me to go, but not high. so ive said i wont go (in the bad books again!). My reason of wanting to not go and finish off my stuff, is so i can use it all as quickly as possible, and get that shitty feeling starting Sunday. I habe booked Monday off too, as hoping my main w/d feelings (will i have any?) will have finished by then, or i will sttart to feel better , ready for work Tuesday.
my main question, is what shoudl i do in preparation for tomrrow ?(when drug access will not be a possibiloty, only coke - and i can asure you that will be the last thing i will do, i have enough self will to not go down that route, besides, i really will feel doubly fucked if i use coke.) Benzos used toi be an option, but i was always convinced they were weak, and anywasy, no drug is available unless Over the counter.
CAn anyone advise me if thee is anything i need tgo do. i see it as a relavely short using H period, in advance, during w/d's. And the for future cravings? Cos, and i like to thiubk im not an arrogant fuckr, but oi coonsider i have a resanable level of intelligence, however, despite going through feelings of self-loathing, tears, tantrums and the like, one week later ive convinced myself, ah fuck it, i will have a good time and i will deal with the consequences, despite 1 week ealier having that horrible never again feeling - you know the one !
id really appreciate some advice or assistance on this. i finally fessed up to a doctor, who has sent me in the direction of a drop in clinic and monday, on my day off , may head op tehre. but im lookig for an easy w/d period, with or without chemcical assistance, but not coke or more smack.
Will i get w/d's? what should i do / take to ease sympotms? what do i do long term to stop ground hog day?
really appreciate in advance any throughts / advice ou can give me, cheers SJ
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This is a great idea, well done for this initiative! Any ex coke peeps, I would really like an insight?
Cheers all...
Best way I Know of quitting is 100% cold turkey. Pick a time where you can take a solid 30-60days off (if you're working)---stay the fuck away from *ANYONE* that can offer you drugs. If you have a trusted friend that can be with you that would be great.
however, I'll be straight up honest. You are in a world of hurt. When you detox, as you can imagine, it's all that poison leaving your body....and it's a miserable experience. But if you muscle through it...you *CAN* do it. That's the biggest thing....you have to get the fuck away from *ANYONE* where you can get your fix from or it will be all a waste of time.
Also, Detoxing from Coke is difficult because your so use to being "AMP'D"---when you detox...you'll go "below the line" of normal--fall into a deep depression (anything you can harm yourself with---keep away from yourself)--again, a Good buddy or someone to talk to will really help.
Also, stock pile up on all kinds of Juice--V8 has those Fusion Drinks that are REALLY GOOD. Orange Juice. Gatoreade, all the fruit you can buy. Just don't take *ANYTHING* with Caffeine (Sodas, Coffee, etc.).
I wish you well man...I know you can do it as you took the first and hardest step admitting you need help.....Best of LUCK!
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This is a great idea, well done for this initiative! Any ex coke peeps, I would really like an insight?
Cheers all...
P.S---I saw someone mention going on Wellbutrin and/or Adderall...I almost wrote in my first post, possibly taking Adderall. Funny, it's called "Diet Coke"---I take 30mg 2x day XR--course I just take 2 in the a.m. and I get *AMP'D* I mean off the wall AMP'D
So, that's a good point, you might want to talk to a Psychiatrist, about starting on an Anti-Depressant. I know that Effexor is an antidepressant that works on the "Dopamine"(it's part of the (SNRI) class of anti-depressants). serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor . Additionally, in high doses it weakly inhibits the reuptake of dopamine.
According to WikiPedia---Cocaine works in the same Neural pathways--Specifically, it is a serotonin–norepinephrine–dopamine reuptake inhibitor, which mediates functionality of these neurotransmitters as an exogenous catecholamine transporter ligand. It is addicting because of the way it affects the mesolimbic reward pathway.
Effexor *DOES NOT* make you "High"---actually, the worst side effect of Effexor is if you take too high a dose, it makes you not give a FUCK about anything. I mean it even takes away the "Good Anxiety" that motivates you to do stuff....You know, like I had a friend taking it--and he got behind on his car payment...he just put the bill aside and said "I'll take care of it later"---that "GOOD ANXIETY"---never took over for him to "deal with it"---4-months later--they repo'd his car...still didn't give a fuck...just said "oh well"> (they wrote him and told him he could come pick up all the interior contents--gym bag, etc.---he didn't even bother).
But see a shrink, be honest, and he might have some good insight. Only reason I didn't mention Adderall---is it doesn't address the problem of being AMP'D and the feel good feeling of that (Adderall is the equivalent of ROCKET FUEL--compared to Ritalin)--HA! When my "Dr. Feelgood" / Psychiatrist prescribed it for me--he's really cool and he said "FUCK Ritalin"---we'll get you on the good stuff Adderall.....*LAUGHING*...Love my Doc...
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There's a quote from a movie: "Every person has a darkness,, it doesn't mean they are evil, it just means that sometimes you have to go to some really dark places to see how beautiful the light is after dusk."
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From a pharmacological standpoint, wellbutrin should be pretty good for cocaine addiction. 30hr half life and is a Norepinephrine-Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor. Is actually approved under another name for helping with cigarette addiction.
This is an incredible thread.
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Is actually approved under another name for helping with cigarette addiction.
^ Zyban
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I have known serious, serious addicts for almost any drug. Cocaine you can walk off in 24hrs, nobody should be addicted to coke it's a joke to get unaddicted. Just use minor willpower. Those who can't have other problems they are covering up by using cocaine, and need psych counselling. No scientology, no jesus loves you bullshit, no new age magic healing incense just go talk to somebody and get your life in order ffs.
Heroin/Opiates are a completely different game, as they rewire your entire brain. I would never touch any of them for fear of enjoying them to much. Your brain literally is somewhat rewired and MUST HAVE OPIATES. Getting off them is like having a 2 week severe flu. Imagine Swine Flu and times that by a billion, that's getting off heroin. (Which is why Ibogaine and LSD work great for getting off Opiates). You will always crave opiates, forever, like a smoker will always crave cigarettes somewhat even 30yrs after quitting.
That said, you can exist a totally normal and very long life being a heroin junky unless of course your accidentally overdose, or get so fucked up you can't function at a job, which is easy considering there's no standards of purity in the street drug scene.
When people do drugs, they get super fucking high the first couple of times, and it's amazing. Then they spend the rest of their life trying to get that high again, by upping the dose and it never happens because you build tolerance. You just keep chasing the dragon.
Illegal drugs are not the scourge of humanity. Prescription pills are, as doctor's are handing out Oxy and legal speed to everybody and they end up addicted. Doctor cuts them off, so they go to the black market. This is the real problem. Nobody should be addicted to drugs, you should be able to walk into a non religious treatment center, talk to somebody and do detox for free if it starts controlling your life. It's in all our best interests that there are no drug addicts. You can ignore the problem until one of them comes at you with a sharpened stick in the subway to get $10 for meth because their life is out of control
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Why would anyone want to quit their drug of choice? Ok, addictions and whatnot but it seems to me that the only problem is supply. Which we here on Silk manage very well. Ha Down with the sob story stuff. Be people and deal with your addictions (?) and or substances. As always, know your bodies and know yourselves.
Peace,
DiMiTri
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Great stories so far everyone! I'm gonna attempt to write my story of benzo addiction which ended last year (about 8 months ago)... I have never wrote this experience before, nor have I explained it in such detail... Here we go:
(After-note: Wow, this turned into a fucking essay! Sorry ya’ll! :P)
Gender: Male
Weight: 175lbs
Age: 20-25
Since I was a teenager, I suffered from anxiety attacks. The first 5 attacks I had, I thought I had a serious heart defect (very common for anxiety disorders). I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) after visiting my physician; the GAD is almost certainly genetic as it runs on my mom’s side of the family. At this point I did not take medications and was completely against the idea of me taking something daily and depending on it (but I had a strong curiosity to try whatever drug I could in high school).
Years passed, during which I tried all the well-known street drugs save heroin and crack.
One day at the end of summer I began feeling very anxious and “depersonalized” for no obvious reason, which led to depression and misery. Weeks past and I felt the same, a fuzzy headedness with a feeling of too much uncomfortable mental stimulation. When I went through a nice workout of lifting weights and cardio, my mood definitely improved but still wasn’t optimal. “I can live with this,” I thought, “It will go away eventually as it has in the past.” It was bearable, it just fucking sucked. The worst came when I couldn’t sleep for a few nights and things amplified 10-fold. Then another night went by with no sleep. I couldn’t take it anymore.
NOTE: Never consider a doctor’s advice as the absolute right, healthy thing to do. Always do your own research and get second or even third opinions.
I visited a walk-in clinic where I was prescribed lorazepam (Ativan). Wow! It’s a miracle for sleep... But it doesn’t last very long =\ . 10 days later I ran out of the Ativan that I was taking 2-4mgs a day of. The following day I had terrible rebound effects and what I definitely identified as withdrawal from this shitty little pill. I visited my family doctor who prescribed me clonazepam (Klonopin, Rivotril). I was told to take 0.5mgs 3x a day. I did. I figured, hey, the doctor knows best and I liked how I felt more normalized and even mildly buzzed from it. And oh how I love to occasionally get high; but this wasn’t occasional, it was every day. I had never had any problems with substances until this point. No problems until a doctor prescribed me something and told me to take it every day.
Time passed, I continued taking it. Over the next year I went to walk-in clinics 1-3x a week to get more benzos, because the amount I was prescribed wasn’t good enough for me anymore. I decided that I should cut back, taper and quit, and heard that diazepam (Valium) was a long-acting benzo that minimized withdrawal intensity. I asked a doctor for it, claiming that I was already taking it regularly. I always had some new story for doctors, and I made sure to act happy, intelligent and alert. And I was happy because I was getting drugs! I just felt so fucking smart having these stories work all the time... reeeeal smart. All this did was make me switch to Valium from clonazepam, which I enjoyed a bit more because of the lesser sedation it gave me (I was beginning to get really depressed from the benzo use, of course I became depressed because I was taking an average of 100mgs of Valium every day).
Just over a year after my first clonazepam, I concluded that I was a cunning enough guy to so many different doctors to prescribe what drugs I wanted (90% success rate out of probably... wow never thought about it till now... probably 40 different doctors; some repeated or returned to because of the success). I could socially manipulate ANYONE, I thought. I began forging prescriptions. This was very fun for me; it was a rush! I could be a little crafty and obtain ANY drug I wanted (didn’t write Oxys as I knew they were the most suspicious, but I did almost everything else!). I wasn’t so depressed anymore because I could pick a substance, go fill the script and get high off it within an hour. I would be sitting in a college lecture, while typing a prescription for an after-school treat. I did this about 60 times. Then I got arrested. I got too desperate for success and thought that since I got away with it over 50 times, so why couldn’t I pull it off this time? I got a bit “sloppy” as they say.
So I got taken into the station high off of narcotics I got illicitly from another pharmacy that day (had 55 more in my coat the cops somehow didn’t catch.. LUCKY ME!). I ended up getting charged with 2 counts of “uttering a forged document” (Canadian Criminal Code). I’m very lucky that I didn’t get a possession charge for what I had on my person at the time (when I was released I grabbed my jacket carefully but still heard the pills shaking in the bottle =P the cops didn’t though!). While in the solitary holding cell, I “woke-up”. My life had gone to shit (this was almost 2 years after the benzo use started). I was an emotionless, careless, arrogant asshole. Thank God I got arrested!
Now it may seem weird that I’m glad I got arrested, but I honestly think it was the only way out alive. I had become a very deceitful person who always had his way. I had no emotion or interest beyond satisfying myself and a strong attachment to the lusts of life. The worst part is that I could absolutely not have a criminal record with the nature of the work field I was going into. I dropped $8000 on a lawyer... All my money. Of course it paid off and I got a slap on the wrist, which definitely wouldn’t be the case if I didn’t get a great lawyer. From here on out, I was myself again, trying to make everything better!
The process of getting better and getting sober was not quick... It took 6months from my decision to quit to taper and finally come off. The whole process mentally sucked, I felt really anxious, but as my Valium dose decreased, I was getting much less depressed, which is what kept me going and motivated. While tapering in the summer, I used MDMA 3x a week to pick up my mood when I was feeling discouraged about my recovery... And the M was actually quite effective in helping me recover, along with occasional time-release tramadol use (2 weeks on, 2-3 weeks off), which gave me a nice pleasant , focused energy. I finally came completely clean off benzos last August. I was proud of myself, but I didn’t feel normal yet. Very slowly over the next 4-5 months, the shitty withdrawal finally faded. If you want to know what benzodiazepine withdrawal is like and was like for me, just searched “benzo withdrawal” on google... I had almost ALL those symptoms. It fucking sucked, but staying on that shit would’ve been far worse.
Life goes on, I still use recreational drugs, with a lot less interest than when I was younger, but these aren’t the problem... The problem was bad medical advice and my perception of prescriptions being so much better than other drugs (yeah, right...). Of course I give myself the most blame, but I still believe there is a huge lack of education with benzos in the medical system. A big thing that helped me was exercising. Without a 60-90min workout 4x a week I feel terrible (been doing this since I was 14). I finally tried Valium again (40mgs) 4 months after completely coming off, and... I didn’t enjoy it at all! I felt a bit tired and too relaxed... it was boring to say the least. I don’t see any reason to use benzos anymore except for stimulant come-downs, and so I don’t use them anymore.
CONCLUSION: Every addiction is a huge struggle, and all I have to share is my struggle with Valium. Benzo addiction is very different from other drug addictions, especially when it’s something as long acting as Valium or clonazepam. It may not be as intense as opiate withdrawal, but the duration of agony is so discouraging at times. This is why MDMA helped me occasionally when I was withdrawing. You just feel like giving up sometimes, when you wake up every day for months and still feel like a broken man.
Sorry for the long report, I had to get it all out there =P
My deepest compassion and support goes out to all those suffering from any addiction. I know how hard it can be, but I also know that we can all overcome it, and also how much better everything becomes... eventually. It takes time, but there’s a bright fucking light at the end of that tunnel. Wear some sunglasses! 8)
:) Be safe and have fun everyone! =D
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Regicide, that was a fascinating read, thanks for sharing. I can relate with how miserable withdrawal from benzos can be, and in hindsight wish I had questioned my psych more when she first suggested I start taking 0.5mg Klonopins 2x a day - telling me there was no way I would develop an addiction at that dose. Benzos can be great drugs if taken the right way and for a limited amount of time, but long-term use almost always ends badly.
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Regicide, that was a fascinating read, thanks for sharing. I can relate with how miserable withdrawal from benzos can be, and in hindsight wish I had questioned my psych more when she first suggested I start taking 0.5mg Klonopins 2x a day - telling me there was no way I would develop an addiction at that dose. Benzos can be great drugs if taken the right way and for a limited amount of time, but long-term use almost always ends badly.
Thanks for reading the whole thing! ;D
I couldn't agree more with your opinion, in 90% of cases they are only good for a couple of months at most. I'm happy to hear that you are no longer depending on benzos yourself!
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Hey guys, I'm not sure how active this thread is, but I was wondering something.
I know it's not good to replace one addiction with another, but I'm thinking about trying to smoke cigarettes instead of smoking meth. I don't know that I will be able to give up on meth completely, but it would be nice to have something I could switch to every now and then to take a break.
If I did do this, do you think I am more likely to just become addicted to meth AND cigarettes and want both of them all the time, or do you think I would be able to substitute the meth with cigarettes successfully?
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Hey guys, I'm not sure how active this thread is, but I was wondering something.
I know it's not good to replace one addiction with another, but I'm thinking about trying to smoke cigarettes instead of smoking meth. I don't know that I will be able to give up on meth completely, but it would be nice to have something I could switch to every now and then to take a break.
If I did do this, do you think I am more likely to just become addicted to meth AND cigarettes and want both of them all the time, or do you think I would be able to substitute the meth with cigarettes successfully?
Considering how well meth and cigarettes go well together, I would advise against this method. Since cigarettes have very little psychoactivity, they will not help that much in kicking the meth habit.
As for replacing one addiction with another, I don't think this is a bad idea in many cases. It can become problematic for some, but for others, a lesser appealing addiction may be a lot easier to kick in the end. I'm not too sure what to recommend for you as everyone is different, but I would choose something that doesn't mix well with meth so you are not tempted to continue tweaking.
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I just started taking Selegiline to help me study and found two interesting side effects; no desire to smoke cigarettes (I'm a casual smoker, a pack a week at most), or weed.
It also works good to study, I don't feel restless like when I take Adderall or Ritalin - and according to this study the memory benefits are better.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19368765
Selegiline also has neuroprotective properties unlike alot of SSRIs and SNRIs - smoking is a terrible habit, I think anyone not on opiates, cocaine or an SSRI should give it a try. But, selegiline is a MAOI so there are some dietary restrictions (but nothing really crazy at normal dosages).
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Hey guys, I'm not sure how active this thread is, but I was wondering something.
I know it's not good to replace one addiction with another, but I'm thinking about trying to smoke cigarettes instead of smoking meth. I don't know that I will be able to give up on meth completely, but it would be nice to have something I could switch to every now and then to take a break.
If I did do this, do you think I am more likely to just become addicted to meth AND cigarettes and want both of them all the time, or do you think I would be able to substitute the meth with cigarettes successfully?
ive heard that everyone who goes to a detox clinic comes out a cigarette smoker weather or not they were before. but they also have no access to other drugs.
i bet you are right about the meth and cigarettes thing... If you want to go the stimulant route maybe start by oral consumption of extended release adderall.
Also, the NDRI wellbutrin may be a good idea (look into it!). It wont be much of a 'high' but it does have a hella long half life and blocks dopamine receptors.
finally benzos could possibly be used to quell addictive urges but this is also bad news bears if they just end up getting added to your repertoire.
good luck!
(not a doctor)
whirl
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I can say that I've been on both sides of this situation. Sadly, both of my uncles perished from heroin overdoses. I know this is not designated for family stories or things of that nature, but I have been there as well. Honestly, I hear so much about supposed "magic" drugs that are made with the sole purpose of helping you ween off of an addiction, though I find a great fault in those, but a much greater fault in the trade off of one hard drug for another. When I was heavily addicted to opiates, first taking them sporadically, than moving to (in what seemed like no time at all) taking several every day, I considered trying another drug to help ease the process. But what good is there in trading one hard drug for another? I was abusing a plethora of opiates, with my main offenders being fentanyl and opana, and looking back I can barely come to terms with just how bad that addiction was. It was ruining my life, my relationships. I used as a means to escape the major bout of depression that I had been suffering through for 5 continuous years, with little hope for a brighter future. I apologize for this seemingly pointless rant, but I assure you there is some meaning to this. My greatest comfort, rather, what helped me the most was spiritual guidance. Meditation truly helped ease me through the intense cravings and feelings of withdrawal that accompanied my quitting process. Even though I weened off very gradually so as to avoid shock, the withdrawal was terrible; I can not for the life of me even understand how I made it through in one piece. I've turned out for the better though, well at least I think I have! I have found a better outlook on life. I guess having recovered from seemingly unrecoverable circumstances can have a healing effect on one's character and self-concept. Meditation truly helped though. It took some time to get used to (as I've never been one to let go and just feel the flow if you will), but after finally adjusting, I found much solace in spiritual guidance. I began meeting with a dear friend of mine who taught me the path to enlightenment. Although this sounds like bull shit, and a load of mumbo jumbo, it really gave me a new perspective on life. I finally found the hope that I had sought for so long. Regardless, I now know of this hope, and it has finally made way into my life. I really hope to be able to help those in need, those who can not help themselves. If anyone wishes to talk, feel free to message me. I will not judge
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Pain pills are my DOC
I'm just coming off of a week without anything now, as I write this. Today I went crazy and was trying to figure out a way to get some asap, but I fought the compulsion by trying to stay really busy. That always seems to help me. If I am over the bad body ache part of it and the shitting constantly, I can usually ride out the rest of it by staying busy.
The first few days, my advice, if u can, is get some benedryl or some shit like it and put your ass to sleep for 3 days. I can't get away with that part, I have a family and all that, but if I didn't have any obligations I would just sleep til I felt okay.
I always wanna stay away, but I love how I feel on the opies. It's not really that I feel bad without them, it's that I feel freakin AWESOME on them... I clean everything, I get all my "to do's" done...I hang out with friends and I am truly happy. til that shit wears off and I've nothing left. That's the shitty part.
:/
I've tried all the opiates/opiods and I only like hydro and oxy. Don't like nodding, I like being productive and social, neither of which I am naturally.
Ironically, SR has helped me through my w/d's. This thread is very comforting for me to read. Thanks for everyone's stories. Goodluck to anyone coming off of something. It feels so awesome when you get away from it... keep trying, and so will I. No chemical should control your life, you've got to remember that part.
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Heroin was the best and worst thing to ever happen to me. I concur with some others about my brain now being rewired. I can be off H for months and still crave it. And I KNOW that once i'm on it, my life will go to shit really fucking fast, yet I still continue going back to it. NA has helped me but it is a life-changing commitment. I've had periods of being active in NA and my life changed for the better but I always find myself going back to H. As a human, i'm a creature of habit, and would sometimes rather live in the familiar pain that H brings.
My intelligence is my main downfall because I still want to believe that I can "out-think" the drugs and somehow fit them into my life. But I know no matter how hopeless I feel, there is always a way out... if I want it.
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I've used opiates on and off for a few years now. I haven't yet been addicted. I didn't really care much for the drug, so it was easy not to let it get into my head. My DoD (drug of destruction) is cocaine. I can't mess with that.
A few weeks ago a friend gave me some 10mg percocet pills. I took a few and it made me feel happy. I drained the rest of the pills mostly on a coke binge to help tone down the speedy effects of the coke.
The other day she gives me percocet again. It took two the first day and 4 the second. On the second night, I smoked some weed too and felt very comfortable. Then I freaked out. I cannot mess with stuff like this. It didn't hit me until this last experience that I can not handle opiates. I will get addicted and very easily. I used to scoff at heroin addicts and wonder why on earth they would continue to use a drug over a period of time knowing full well what the consequences were. Coke heads don't have to go to detox unless it's an extreme case. Well, I take back that old opinion.
I was having a friend for dinner and I gave the pills away. I also had adderall and seroquil and I was going to dump it down the toilet if this friend didn't take them off me.
I'm happy to have several things coming at me, and they all have THC. I'm really proud of myself for giving up these pills because I often feel depressed and those pills just snap me right out of it. I can't mess with something that powerful.
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Hey guys,
i dont have read the post bevore - sry!
I just want to share ( in my opinion important ) things about me.
So i am high on coke - the drug which fuck me a lot; i know why, i see the way out and i feel that i make steps forward ( that really good :-) )
Hope that i dont loose the point and the rush from my last shot hold on - so that i can show you what up with me inside.
This need a lot of awareness from you - and also a lot understanding in mankind. Also i have a spiritual believ system - which give me extrem safe framing ( appreciate corrections of substantives, verbs etc. which are more precise - thx )
Just write now - and i would be happy to share all of this with you
1. To help you
2. to help me - ( everything we love - is at least a thing from ourself which we love or want to love - often you can not see it )
So i go on - forgive when you can not follow - important thing i wanna let you know: yes i am high on coke, i have a wrote flash...
i use this flash to get to a thing which will come out - i cant see it but i can feel it...
My story!
15 years ago i had a bigger addiction to many drugs. It begins with smoking joints, a little bit alkohol, often tbh: masturbation ( also the same flight from the truth - or else... ) Then i get in connection with the harder drugs. I was alwasy very interested and curious on Selfexperience with this drugs - i - 15 years ago i dont know that ! - used this things to figure out a perfect way for me
to everytime good mood, not strong, but the safe feeling in me to be on the top - always i like to be on the top - and even when other people think, or see or etc. i screw it for me in this way - thats compatible with me to feel safe - hope you can follow me... thats deep thoughts and emotions with theire "mechanics" -
i could write much more about my past - i ll keep the point... ( just a little round off the point - i am sure all of you know the feeling and the automatic protection when something will apear - will loose the hiding - sry - i wish to have more verbs for presice description of those things..) Thats the point why i am flushing around at the moment...
but let me look under the safe feeling - and kontemplate all faces which you ( thats also for me ) have created - + aware the unconciouse things you can not see at the moment - i feel the winding around the point - showing in writing and writing and dont talk about....
it looks like a ugly, bad "child" ( for me it looks like - be creative you get the right thing ! )
i wrote this like an advice for you to bring it more seizable ... dont want to say this is the thing you have to do - i dont have the status to guide you like an old, experienced man ( sometimes the Esoterik fans belive they are OLD!! souls! )
Aaaah - you see - i wrote and my words and focus goes away from the point of - ( an idea is to think and feel about what this point brings...)
so back to the awful feeling in me - i dont wanna see it, dont want to confrontat myself with it; but this is a part from me!
For you: self against self - an unconsious reaction to protect your self...
ok - the ugly child! it looks angry, glare with the eyes - i feel that the eyes are important - fall into it... waiting in a thrustfool ground emotion - what they want to say me -
now i ll make my last shot - to get over the edge... ( madness guys- its 4 o clock in the night; i have to get up at 7:30 and i have 2 important new contacts to establish my business - hope i ll get it - but now i will do this... )
sorry again for those big jumps - the eyes! they tell me : (and now i nearly switch with my inner awareness into the child to get it)
i am so angry, frustraded, sad - i have a lot of grief - feel myself as a bad, black, grief, - want to cry - yeah the child feel crying will give an release - feels better not good - i try it ( at this mom i wish i could cry in reality but im numb with coke - think about this! what are you want to numb? - so im crying - i dont get love from someone is the reason - it my dad!
he always prayd me - you are nothing and you will never be great ( not the right articulation - searching for - to be someone )... thats a mode which i ever want to avoid!
15 years ago this story goes unconcious with me - today i know ( the truth i feel and life is - based on feeling - maybe 70% of my way as the person i am - but it depends on the point where you looking at yourself ) crazy i know - but it is good to manage this - very helpful...
Go on: Some ruff Situations, accidents with a near by death experience ( help for the right verb! ) force me to change my life from ground on... i had no idea how to do - ( when i review this i am sure that there was something which protect me in a very fine, non visible feeling )
who can see feelings ?? *lol* ( recognice that i get in a easier mode - to share this is good for me! ) the point!
i remeber THE Situation for me which give me all i need to change and the doubtlessness ( fuck - i loose much time with searching verb in leo! ) that i can surely handle it - it try to decribe exatcly: i stole some pills from an apotheke, they fixed me - i had no chance - no way out ( today i would interpret it like: live tells me to look at something! in a very neccesary manor ) then in the jail - it was a moment of hoplessness, all the barriers which i always use broke down - and i saw myself - feel the potential and the power cause it was a review of all the thing i have done - and they all end in ONE POINT - here in the jail - and live teaches me to never avoid thing which are deep in me - live shows me ( it was a ruff situation! but i need it !) to allow unknown thing and to trust in me - and there was a doubtlessness ( perfect verb :-) ) - that i have the liability for this situation! I have created it! Not the others! And the change was easy and at the same time there comes my most powerful belief system: I HAVE DONE THIS _ NOW I AM HERE -AND NOW I CAN DO THE SAME -JUST IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!!!
This and the attribute i get out of the near death exp. keeps me up for 15 years! I worked a lot and hard on myself - ( fuck i should go to bed but i want going on - as long as i can ) and it becomes a part of my live - THE LIVE WHICH TEACHES ME EVERY TIME -
i could tell you so much what i have found just on myself - and now i am on a point where i can see that we all are the same! This is great!
Its one of the most powerful tools for every relationship! And if you like to think philosophy - all thing which you get in contact are a form of relationship - can you see what i want you to get? We are a product of our self - thats the truth! not the words from any DVD which goes around ( if you know ) this is the experience of a mighty instrument.
Now i will take some benzos - to get a little bit sleep - my soul pray at this moment or better she crys - help me please, i know you are there, i know you are with me, and i am sure that ( i had a moment which i could see it from an above point of view - also called meta level ) this is not really a part of the scheme of my life ( i call it mylifeway ) - i am sure i will fix this - a thing which i am depressed about at the mom is - that i can not feel the time of it... maybe you know what i mean exactly? if not i ll help you - everybody knows a situation or a goal you wanna reach - wish it would be... etc. - if you are silent enough you can feel if the time is ripe! Think about this! It could be important for you - cause you can learn how it feels to create your life - and ( i know this will be confusing most of you -but i hope ONE guy is out there who can follow me - who knows it - thats simple! i mean you have the might to create your life - everything is possible - you can learn to feel the ripe of time - but you have to found all this thing in yourself - without any doubts and with the power to avoid any little things which want you to break - or better to proof your inner strengh... thats philosophy i know - but it is good for me to reflect about this post when i am off coke - maybe this could help someone maybe not - i go to bed yet ...
bye - and thx for listening, appreciate every coments and inputs
i hope to get the right sign from my teacher the life...
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Heroin was the best and worst thing to ever happen to me. I concur with some others about my brain now being rewired. I can be off H for months and still crave it. And I KNOW that once i'm on it, my life will go to shit really fucking fast, yet I still continue going back to it. NA has helped me but it is a life-changing commitment. I've had periods of being active in NA and my life changed for the better but I always find myself going back to H. As a human, i'm a creature of habit, and would sometimes rather live in the familiar pain that H brings.
My intelligence is my main downfall because I still want to believe that I can "out-think" the drugs and somehow fit them into my life. But I know no matter how hopeless I feel, there is always a way out... if I want it.
I absolutely agree with heroin re-wiring your brain. I was an I.V. user of it for 3 years daily with a pretty good sized habit towards the end, a gram a day (probably more like 8-12 hours)
I notice that all drugs effect me in a completely different manner after being an addict, for example coke use to be awesome high and now it just doesn't do much even the high quality off SR doesn't even feel much like the same drug as I did before I was on heroin.
I was clean for about a year and did opiates again and had instant withdraws the after they wore off even though I had been clean, and still had a high tolerance, like my brain is permantlely set to w/d whenever an opiate is in me and the tolerance barrier is always somewhat existant. I consider this to be a good thing, because knowing I will withdraw keeps me from wanting to use and slipping up and going through a cycle of using and sobriety. I hate the fucking withdraws, and it does suck that I can't ever enjoy heroin or even pill opiates again it really is what is best for me, because I cannot control my use with them and things spiral out of control really fast.
It was difficult for about half a year staying clean, but I did and it has been about 2 years now and I have only had about 4-5 relapses each a single time and all because I was around or getting someone dope to be nice and had to try some. The hardest part is getting your head around the fact that you will never be able to feel that good again and that you are giving up on setting foot in the most blissful amazing room (the heroin high) after being in it so much. It is really hard to let that go, and return to being normal which at first seems so dull and pointless to live life on such a lesser level, but after a few months your brain starts adjusting and chemicals start flowing more like they should and you will find out that happy times and enjoyment from life can happen when you aren't high. It is getting past the months of depression and feeling blah about everything that is the hardest. It seems like life is worthless for awhile and it will never change, but it does I promise.
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Heroin was the best and worst thing to ever happen to me. I concur with some others about my brain now being rewired. I can be off H for months and still crave it. And I KNOW that once i'm on it, my life will go to shit really fucking fast, yet I still continue going back to it. NA has helped me but it is a life-changing commitment. I've had periods of being active in NA and my life changed for the better but I always find myself going back to H. As a human, i'm a creature of habit, and would sometimes rather live in the familiar pain that H brings.
My intelligence is my main downfall because I still want to believe that I can "out-think" the drugs and somehow fit them into my life. But I know no matter how hopeless I feel, there is always a way out... if I want it.
I absolutely agree with heroin re-wiring your brain. I was an I.V. user of it for 3 years daily with a pretty good sized habit towards the end, a gram a day (probably more like 8-12 hours)
I notice that all drugs effect me in a completely different manner after being an addict, for example coke use to be awesome high and now it just doesn't do much even the high quality off SR doesn't even feel much like the same drug as I did before I was on heroin.
I was clean for about a year and did opiates again and had instant withdraws the after they wore off even though I had been clean, and still had a high tolerance, like my brain is permantlely set to w/d whenever an opiate is in me and the tolerance barrier is always somewhat existant. I consider this to be a good thing, because knowing I will withdraw keeps me from wanting to use and slipping up and going through a cycle of using and sobriety. I hate the fucking withdraws, and it does suck that I can't ever enjoy heroin or even pill opiates again it really is what is best for me, because I cannot control my use with them and things spiral out of control really fast.
It was difficult for about half a year staying clean, but I did and it has been about 2 years now and I have only had about 4-5 relapses each a single time and all because I was around or getting someone dope to be nice and had to try some. The hardest part is getting your head around the fact that you will never be able to feel that good again and that you are giving up on setting foot in the most blissful amazing room (the heroin high) after being in it so much. It is really hard to let that go, and return to being normal which at first seems so dull and pointless to live life on such a lesser level, but after a few months your brain starts adjusting and chemicals start flowing more like they should and you will find out that happy times and enjoyment from life can happen when you aren't high. It is getting past the months of depression and feeling blah about everything that is the hardest. It seems like life is worthless for awhile and it will never change, but it does I promise.
Thanks for that post dude. Yeah the first couple months off of H are the worst. It's hard to think of anything else even as I slowly start to feel better, then I just end up using again and setting myself back. It's a terrible vicious cycle.
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This is my first post. I will put something of a "testimony" together at another time. Glad to see there is a topic discussing addiction and openly acknowledging and confronting it, this is encouraging. If anyone needs to talk about getting off, in particular in re: opiates i will try to check inbox consistently. I was first prescribed demerol and morphine at 5 yrs old. yes as a 5 yr old baby, ive had severe migraines my whole life and even at that young age it was the only thing doctors in the hospital could find that would allow me to calm down and stop screaming from the pain. Anyway as you can imagine w/such a early start i'.ve been to every corner and covered every square inch of the opiate addiction.dependance/legitimate use scene. Before i recently stopped going to pain management doctor i was taking 1 40mg Opana ER 4x a day( every 6 hrs) and 2 30mg Oxycodone IR tabs every 4 hours( so 60mg every 4hrs or 6x a day = 360mg oxycodone day) I would occasionally switch back and forth from the opana dose i was on to1 Morphine 200mg tabs every 6 hours or 2 every 12 hours. Im now down to a miniscule amount of Buprenorphine (like .2 every 12 hours) or maybe like 2 percocet a day. Withdrawls are terrible but to me its easier to go from that huge daily dose to where i am now than it is to go from where i am now ( a couple vicodin a day basicallly) to nothing. i just cant find a way to do it, the shock my body feels from the pain is just too much. I consider myself strong, i cut down from that huge daily opana and oxycodone dose to a couple percocet a day in about a months time. WHere i go from here im not sure. It appears that no opiates is not an option for me, im not really sure what the right way to do things is. I will be the first to admit im lost.
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hi@ all - i dont have read your post - so sry that i start with some of mine dont belong to your post etc. before:
want to give a little personal and sensitiv - wish - to most of you...
there are a lot of things i should share with you if i want to get it!
In the past i have done some post ( i think 2 or 3 ) which are very long, loosing the point, confusing you...
so i just want to share something with you - it always start breaking out of me when i am on coke...
like right now :-))
i search something special - dont know if anybody is out there - and also in this community who feels a move to it - or is ready to start ...
Maybe someone of you out there feels comfortable to start a relationship with me - cause i dont have anyone who i can communicate anything depending on coke, addiction and
the most important for me:
anybody who has established a fulfilling life - who works daily on his way to stay in line with his "lifeplan", this is spiritual but not esoteric! It is very difficult to get my "point" where i see myself -( maybe you can imagin it like on what level of selfrealization you are - always keep at the botton etc. )- across.
Also my bad speach is a handicap to communicate exactly. This results often in a surely to long post - and i think i bother you in a way. Dont want to loose the point - sry if it is so - i want to fix it! plus: it only start to break out when i am high!
You can hopefully understand or get a sense of my situation: so if you are recognise your self with the above - contact me - i also think about to let you know what my ideal is...
but this would be reject many of you and also i dont want to give you a ( false ) picture of me...
I will post this in the next days again, so that most of these members can read it... hope to get the right one -
I TRY TO GIVE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN A SHORT NOW:
i want to let you knwo this so that you maybe see you in the ( ideal ) same situation and personal attitude etc.
i am just in the situation that i have changed my life to a very positive - and now unconcious I bring back these old known behaviors and programms which start my addiction again -
you have to know: i see it as a chance for me - as a present from the life and i ( hope that i dont overestimate myself ) will take it -
to finish it for ever ( and there i have a really special point how i belief the world? )
this is the point: i think i have realized my life to a "good" level - want to go forward and have the impulse that i need a guy who is able to give me the right part, ya know!
So - i would be very happy if some of you guys want to start this "relationship" with me - prefered when you also want to finish your addiction - in a high selfrealization way .
on your way -
i am sure that there will be a big potential to discover - cause i ( not really sure yet ) mean to feel it is part of my destiny - want to find out if i am right...
Sry for a little long post - for a little long post: but i could not better bring it across...
ask away for anything you want to know!
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one thing i want to tell you now...
just to give a little release for my - bad certain ( sry for the none correct verb - appreciate any advise to shape up my speach! ) always when i am on coke - i try to learn etc....
and i start to cheat out all my philosophics - to help anybody who is right around me - and to ( i think so ) give you the impression that i am a very intelligent, big thinking, more comparing, and therefore a leading man for you - always i lost the point - and write confused...
so i want to get out:
i lied my wife - with a unbeliefable story - to get the time, to do more coke - to feed my addiction - and the last times i do coke i can not finish till it is out!
i have a really bad certain ( bad thoughts of what you have done - knowing that it wasnt ok! )
jsut want to talk about it - and also to start building some kind of trusthworthiness with some of you - to setup sharing personal, and sensitive things ... start to get to know you - therfore i often write lot of myself - just want to speed up this process - but i often loose the limits of giving you a rejecting impulse - sry when i do that!
so maybe some of you also know this - creative but bad moving game -
how do you manage this - also i am interested in your story - how do you start using drugs, what is your personal benefit you belief to get ( or everything you realized as yours )
what kind of drug do you prefer - and maybe you have an opinion why you are using this drug - not others ( or you are polymorph )
appreciate every selfrealisation of you - which you want to share - or want to get it out - or if you feel the impulse - you can ask me for some advice ( just my opinion ) ...
and to keep it honest: i often fall in the Role of a worldsafer or so ( kind of prayer i think is the right verb )
- want to change and bring everything to the ONE truth i belief - ( and always can nerv you with proving my point, forcing you to give feedback etc... )
so if i start my bad - feel free to keep me at the bottom - say: hey guy keep the bottom - dont fly high!!
hope i dont spread you - or give wondering impression - i am high at the moment and want to talk about - anything between sky and earth - depending to figure out the release of my addiction...
bye
and to give help to you - i wish it for all of you! let the truth come through and
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I've made a goal of trying every substance at least once, and ever since finding this sight, it seems like it's going to be a reality. The Hallucinogens and Dissociatives seem like they'll be fine, but what about when I get to the amphetamines and opiates? Meth and cocaine seem like they will fuck me up coming down. What then? is it that bad? What about taking some Adderall to give me enough willpower to get through the probably-two-or-so-day comedown?
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methadone is a godsend. helped me get off opiates. what i did was popped 10mg Methadones for a few days then stepped down to maybe 7.5mg methadone for a few days then 5mg or so and i havent touched a hydro or oxy in over a week or so. So if you hate your heroin / pill WDs, get your hands on some methadone and you'll be good!
Now for the MXE, alcohol and Xanax its on!!!!!!
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About two-three years ago I started with weed, as everyone I guess. It was alright but I did not like the weed 'scene' where I live... most smokers are fucking assholes, thinking smoking weed is a race or a game. They have such high tolerances that I swear they could smoke about 15-20 g in an hour and not even get that high. A year in, I start to see other possibilities... one of my closest friends got about 2 lines of coke and shared it with me. It was either just too shitty or probably wasn't even coke cause I barely felt anything more than a RedBull buzz but anyway, I got a gram of it and I was quite disappointed. Fuck coke, I said in my mind then I decided to get into pharms. Where I live, most pharms are OTC and there's a pharmacy in every corner. I'm talking about stuff like benzos, opiates, etc not your average OTC stuff thats in USA. Picked up a codeine addiction... pure codeine, which I took every night to relax for a year straight. I liked the rush it provided and I could get it anytime... so a while later I found out all the joint and body aches I had were because of a spine condition. I had the surgery done in Germany and suddenly I had scripts for hundred of Oxy pills (OC) and fentanyl patches.
Almost a year later (now), I am still severly addicted to fentanyl patches although I can't find anymore Oxy cause it doesn't exist where I live.
Yesterday, for the first time in my life, I got half a g of heroin and I snorted the whole bag today, it did not do anything, not even relieve WDs. (either it was too shit or my tolerance is too high)
I know I will always be addicted to some form of opiate for the rest of my life because of the aches I have, even after the surgery (might take up to 3 years to disappear I was told by the doc)
I don't have much choice, I know methadone treatment is just another addiction and cold turkey is just a lot to bear when quitting fent. Although my tolerance is way past its prime, I still have trouble taking the next step and quitting.
Good thing is I'm close to quitting benzos... I'm on 0.1mg of xanax a day and slowly tappering. I'm pretty much at a loss.
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If you have problem with addiction look into IBOGAINE THERAPY!
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About two-three years ago I started with weed, as everyone I guess. It was alright but I did not like the weed 'scene' where I live... most smokers are fucking assholes, thinking smoking weed is a race or a game. They have such high tolerances that I swear they could smoke about 15-20 g in an hour and not even get that high. A year in, I start to see other possibilities... one of my closest friends got about 2 lines of coke and shared it with me. It was either just too shitty or probably wasn't even coke cause I barely felt anything more than a RedBull buzz but anyway, I got a gram of it and I was quite disappointed. Fuck coke, I said in my mind then I decided to get into pharms. Where I live, most pharms are OTC and there's a pharmacy in every corner. I'm talking about stuff like benzos, opiates, etc not your average OTC stuff thats in USA. Picked up a codeine addiction... pure codeine, which I took every night to relax for a year straight. I liked the rush it provided and I could get it anytime... so a while later I found out all the joint and body aches I had were because of a spine condition. I had the surgery done in Germany and suddenly I had scripts for hundred of Oxy pills (OC) and fentanyl patches.
Almost a year later (now), I am still severly addicted to fentanyl patches although I can't find anymore Oxy cause it doesn't exist where I live.
Yesterday, for the first time in my life, I got half a g of heroin and I snorted the whole bag today, it did not do anything, not even relieve WDs. (either it was too shit or my tolerance is too high)
I know I will always be addicted to some form of opiate for the rest of my life because of the aches I have, even after the surgery (might take up to 3 years to disappear I was told by the doc)
I don't have much choice, I know methadone treatment is just another addiction and cold turkey is just a lot to bear when quitting fent. Although my tolerance is way past its prime, I still have trouble taking the next step and quitting.
Good thing is I'm close to quitting benzos... I'm on 0.1mg of xanax a day and slowly tappering. I'm pretty much at a loss.
Just some food for thought. store brand Imodium (because its cheaper) and zantac make for a good curb for opiate w/d's. Loperamide (active ingredient in Imodium) is an opiate and tho its doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, it will sequester a great deal of the misery of detoxing. Not to mention it will keep you from having choros (poopers)
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What an interesting thread. Thanks for all your sharing. My addiction is to toxic people :(
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Since I only hate on benzos, I might as well do something productive and show you how you can get off. My best friend went (or maybe is still going) through this and just watching was a nightmare. It's good to see that at least somewhere on SR benzo withdrawals are being recognized as one of the nastiest things on earth.
So, you wanna quit benzos? How hard it is really depends on the dose you are taking. If you taking this shit daily for a couple of weeks, you are addicted. The longer you take them the more you brain is used to them and the tougher the withdrawals can be.
The first thing you need to know is this website: http://www.benzo.org.uk
Especially this subsection: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm This is the ASHTON MANUAL, the only scientific thing ever done about benzo-withdrawal. It was written by Prof. Heather Ashton who was the head of a benzo-withdrawal clinic in UK until she retired and the clinic closed. Most doctors will never had heard of that, this stuff is not taught at pseudo-med-school Psychiatrists attend. Very often a withdrawal schedule that is way to fast is suggested. If you are cooperating with a doctor, read the Ashton Manual first. Prof. Ashton was head of a withdrawal clinic for 12 years, all the expertise is bundled there. She is still the leading expert on this topic, with like 250+ papers published on benzos. Your doctor might have withdrawn a handful of patients. But the real knowledge is there.
Can anyone get off this shit? yes.
What do you need? patience. lots of patience.
Will everyone suffer withdrawal symptoms? Unfortunately pretty much everyone, yes. It can be reduced by A LOT when tapering off very slowly.
How does it work?
You can taper off from whatever benzo you are on or you switch to a benzo with a way longer halflife. Diazepam being the benzo of choice, since the active metabolite can lurk in your body for over a week. The effects of diazepam wear off after 8-12hrs, but the long halflife protects you from the nastiest withdrawals. Check the halflife of your benzo and the equivalency to Diazepam here: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm#5 In the right column you can see the equivalent dose to 10mg diazepam, so 0.5mg Alprazolam would equal about 10mg Diazepam. Some smartasses always argue about this table being incorrect on exactly their preferred benzo, but keep in mind this was established after 12 years of clinic. And the whole manual is laid out to maximize the reduction of withdrawal-symptoms. If you can do with less Diazepam, that's good for you. It might safe you some weeks.
Now you can figure out how much Diazepam is needed, then you follow a schedule to switch over to Diazepam and then you start the tapering. My friend, lets call him heinzi was on 2-3x 2mg Clonazepam a day (those were sourced illegally and he got himself into this mess by being plain stupid) for the last year, being addicted for 3 years. Doesn't sound like that much, right? Well turns out it equals 80 - 120mg of Diazepam a day. Yes, that means you take 12x 10mg Diazepam a day. At that point he realized in how much trouble he actually got.
One more very important advice: if you are addicted to such a high dose, DO NOT attempt to QUIT COLD TURKEY. This can result in very serious seizures and death (yes, death).
You should read the whole Manual, it contains pretty much every documented long-term benzo effect and a lot of withdrawal symptoms. Might be scary to read, but you need to be prepared to what might hit you, so you know it's just withdrawals (heinzi struggled a lot with symptoms coming out of the blue and not being sure if it will ever get away).
Next step is checking your withdrawal schedule here: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm This is where the patience is needed. It contains the switch over to Diazepam and the withdrawal itself. Schedule 2 shows the withdrawal from 40mg Diazepam. If you take maximum time this would take 1 year (!) to complete and should give you minimal w/d-symptoms. So heinzi's dose was at 80 - 120mg Diazepam, since he didn't want to invest three years, shorter cycles and bigger steps were traded for an awful amount of pain. The schedules are not set in stone and should be adapted to your personal experience. For example heinzi figured that at the higher doses a bigger cut every week was easily doable. He started at 100mg and cut by 5mg every 1-2 weeks. That's only 5% so it's not that big of a deal. It is a big deal though when cutting from 10mg, then it would be 50% and almost undo-able. Relative Values matter. Heinzi planned 6 - 8 months to withdraw to 0mg. He stuck to his plan, but he suffered a lot. Once he was at 0mg, it's not like you are there and it's over. About 10 days after he cut to 0mg the Diazepam had left his body and the fun started. He experienced mostly Perceptual distortions, Depersonalisation, derealisation. Once he told me it "feels like a bad acid trip. gone worse". Heavy visual and auditory distortions combined with a feeling of not being really here, being in a dream or a movie. sometimes watching himself in 3rd person. This lasted for about 3-4 months and faded out very slowly. Keep in mind that he had this coming since he chose the "fast" road.
That's pretty much it. Sounds easy? It is! You can do it. It's possible for everyone. Knowledge really is power here. It's really not that difficult, it can be done without doctor although heinzi chose to visit a doctor about 3 months in due to the heaviest depression and anxiety I have ever seen. He was considering to kill himself because he didn't know how to handle an upcoming appointment with a social worker. He got an ssri for the depression which really helped. Success rate of SSRIs at benzo induced depression is > 80%. If you get depressed, go for it.
If you are thinking "I am not on a extremely high dose, I can quit cold turkey", this is probably correct. the risk of seizures depends on the dosage of course. We gathered enough empirical evidence from multiple w/d support forums to find following effect: Lets say Bob and Alice take 20mg Diazepam a day. Bob quits cold turkey and "goes through hell" for the next 6 months. Alice tapers for 3 months and then goes through a moderate benzo-afterparty for another 3 months. So the total recovery times seem to match up, it's all very individual of course, but we found this phenomenon a couple of times.
I spare you the full story of heinzi. He started about a year ago and is now pretty much symptom free although he got depressed again and takes medication. During this last year he was not able to work or go to University.
TL;DR: Wanna quit? get the ashton manual and make it your bible for the next 12+ months.
In case anyone wonders, in the ashton manual you often read "long-term benzo users" but no definition of how long "long term" actually is. It's 10+ years.
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Very nicely written muslix :). Your post should be put in bold and underlined, because it is indeed very sobering :o and it really changed my opinion on benzos. Benzo withdrawals seem to be a real "competition" against opiate withdrawals. I would never have thought benzos could cause such strong post-accute WDs. And the psychological effects - the hallucinations, depersonalisation etc. - pure hell. From now on, I am staying away from that shite.
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+1 karma, müslix. Great PSA.
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Honestly, how can you even get addicted to shit like shots ?
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Since I only hate on benzos, I might as well do something productive and show you how you can get off. My best friend went (or maybe is still going) through this and just watching was a nightmare. It's good to see that at least somewhere on SR benzo withdrawals are being recognized as one of the nastiest things on earth.
So, you wanna quit benzos? How hard it is really depends on the dose you are taking. If you taking this shit daily for a couple of weeks, you are addicted. The longer you take them the more you brain is used to them and the tougher the withdrawals can be.
The first thing you need to know is this website: http://www.benzo.org.uk
Especially this subsection: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm This is the ASHTON MANUAL, the only scientific thing ever done about benzo-withdrawal. It was written by Prof. Heather Ashton who was the head of a benzo-withdrawal clinic in UK until she retired and the clinic closed. Most doctors will never had heard of that, this stuff is not taught at pseudo-med-school Psychiatrists attend. Very often a withdrawal schedule that is way to fast is suggested. If you are cooperating with a doctor, read the Ashton Manual first. Prof. Ashton was head of a withdrawal clinic for 12 years, all the expertise is bundled there. She is still the leading expert on this topic, with like 250+ papers published on benzos. Your doctor might have withdrawn a handful of patients. But the real knowledge is there.
Can anyone get off this shit? yes.
What do you need? patience. lots of patience.
Will everyone suffer withdrawal symptoms? Unfortunately pretty much everyone, yes. It can be reduced by A LOT when tapering off very slowly.
How does it work?
You can taper off from whatever benzo you are on or you switch to a benzo with a way longer halflife. Diazepam being the benzo of choice, since the active metabolite can lurk in your body for over a week. The effects of diazepam wear off after 8-12hrs, but the long halflife protects you from the nastiest withdrawals. Check the halflife of your benzo and the equivalency to Diazepam here: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm#5 In the right column you can see the equivalent dose to 10mg diazepam, so 0.5mg Alprazolam would equal about 10mg Diazepam. Some smartasses always argue about this table being incorrect on exactly their preferred benzo, but keep in mind this was established after 12 years of clinic. And the whole manual is laid out to maximize the reduction of withdrawal-symptoms. If you can do with less Diazepam, that's good for you. It might safe you some weeks.
Now you can figure out how much Diazepam is needed, then you follow a schedule to switch over to Diazepam and then you start the tapering. My friend, lets call him heinzi was on 2-3x 2mg Clonazepam a day (those were sourced illegally and he got himself into this mess by being plain stupid) for the last year, being addicted for 3 years. Doesn't sound like that much, right? Well turns out it equals 80 - 120mg of Diazepam a day. Yes, that means you take 12x 10mg Diazepam a day. At that point he realized in how much trouble he actually got.
One more very important advice: if you are addicted to such a high dose, DO NOT attempt to QUIT COLD TURKEY. This can result in very serious seizures and death (yes, death).
You should read the whole Manual, it contains pretty much every documented long-term benzo effect and a lot of withdrawal symptoms. Might be scary to read, but you need to be prepared to what might hit you, so you know it's just withdrawals (heinzi struggled a lot with symptoms coming out of the blue and not being sure if it will ever get away).
Next step is checking your withdrawal schedule here: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm This is where the patience is needed. It contains the switch over to Diazepam and the withdrawal itself. Schedule 2 shows the withdrawal from 40mg Diazepam. If you take maximum time this would take 1 year (!) to complete and should give you minimal w/d-symptoms. So heinzi's dose was at 80 - 120mg Diazepam, since he didn't want to invest three years, shorter cycles and bigger steps were traded for an awful amount of pain. The schedules are not set in stone and should be adapted to your personal experience. For example heinzi figured that at the higher doses a bigger cut every week was easily doable. He started at 100mg and cut by 5mg every 1-2 weeks. That's only 5% so it's not that big of a deal. It is a big deal though when cutting from 10mg, then it would be 50% and almost undo-able. Relative Values matter. Heinzi planned 6 - 8 months to withdraw to 0mg. He stuck to his plan, but he suffered a lot. Once he was at 0mg, it's not like you are there and it's over. About 10 days after he cut to 0mg the Diazepam had left his body and the fun started. He experienced mostly Perceptual distortions, Depersonalisation, derealisation. Once he told me it "feels like a bad acid trip. gone worse". Heavy visual and auditory distortions combined with a feeling of not being really here, being in a dream or a movie. sometimes watching himself in 3rd person. This lasted for about 3-4 months and faded out very slowly. Keep in mind that he had this coming since he chose the "fast" road.
That's pretty much it. Sounds easy? It is! You can do it. It's possible for everyone. Knowledge really is power here. It's really not that difficult, it can be done without doctor although heinzi chose to visit a doctor about 3 months in due to the heaviest depression and anxiety I have ever seen. He was considering to kill himself because he didn't know how to handle an upcoming appointment with a social worker. He got an ssri for the depression which really helped. Success rate of SSRIs at benzo induced depression is > 80%. If you get depressed, go for it.
If you are thinking "I am not on a extremely high dose, I can quit cold turkey", this is probably correct. the risk of seizures depends on the dosage of course. We gathered enough empirical evidence from multiple w/d support forums to find following effect: Lets say Bob and Alice take 20mg Diazepam a day. Bob quits cold turkey and "goes through hell" for the next 6 months. Alice tapers for 3 months and then goes through a moderate benzo-afterparty for another 3 months. So the total recovery times seem to match up, it's all very individual of course, but we found this phenomenon a couple of times.
I spare you the full story of heinzi. He started about a year ago and is now pretty much symptom free although he got depressed again and takes medication. During this last year he was not able to work or go to University.
TL;DR: Wanna quit? get the ashton manual and make it your bible for the next 12+ months.
In case anyone wonders, in the ashton manual you often read "long-term benzo users" but no definition of how long "long term" actually is. It's 10+ years.
Thank you for this information (Will read it when I have time because I need help). (Would read it now but I got work in 5 hours)
I started taking 10mg Diazepam tablets to cope with some work and life related stress and the next thing I know I have gone through over 130 tablets in just under 3 weeks I got about 60 tablets left.
Some days I was taking as much as 60-70mg per day I have been trying to taper off down to about 30-40mg per day.
But the last Day or two I have noticed an increase in Suicidal Thoughts and a feeling of depression and irritability this is not normal for me even under stress. I assume this is a side affect of trying to taper off this shit. I have tried taking 10mg per day to taper off but I just cant do it. I seem to be stuck at 20-40mg per day I know am addicted and I just don't know what to do.
If anyone can give me some advice and help me please do.
Kind Regards
SpeedCrunch
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don't run out of valium if you are experiencing the above
don't try to bite off more than you can chew with your withdrawl schedule, take it easy
those shitty thoughts are a symptom of withdrawl. Youre taking something away that your mind and body that it has grown accustomed to
if you are stuck at 20-40mg then stick there for a week or two
then get down to 10-30mg
then get down to 5-10mg
then eliminate it
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Thank you for this information (Will read it when I have time because I need help). (Would read it now but I got work in 5 hours)
I started taking 10mg Diazepam tablets to cope with some work and life related stress and the next thing I know I have gone through over 130 tablets in just under 3 weeks I got about 60 tablets left.
Some days I was taking as much as 60-70mg per day I have been trying to taper off down to about 30-40mg per day.
But the last Day or two I have noticed an increase in Suicidal Thoughts and a feeling of depression and irritability this is not normal for me even under stress. I assume this is a side affect of trying to taper off this shit. I have tried taking 10mg per day to taper off but I just cant do it. I seem to be stuck at 20-40mg per day I know am addicted and I just don't know what to do.
If anyone can give me some advice and help me please do.
Kind Regards
SpeedCrunch
Sorry to hear you are going through such a rough time there SpeedCrunch. Benzos are really tough, but you have made some progress by lowering it down to that range. As mentioned you need to take it slow and have patience with yourself. This is by far one of the hardest to come off of and caries one of the highest (if not the #1) risks during this phase.
I think its important to mentally support yourself, especially since you are noticing those thoughts, the depression, and irritation. Depression indicates a feeling of being stuck/hopeless. Know that you are not, even though it may seem like you are in that moment. You have already made headway so give yourself credit every time you begin to feel a bit down. Meditation is a great way to help let go of the mind and just simply relax. You need to let your Parasympathetic nervous system kick and unlike our SNS (fight or flight) it takes time for it to ramp up and relax you. If you can work it into your schedule, set aside 30 minutes once or twice a day to work on breathing as an entry to meditation. This "you" time that you have scheduled is a very healthy and therapeutic activity. PM if you need some ideas on how to get started there.
Take a look at your dosing schedule. Is it set and you look at the clock, think "Oh man its time!" or is it more random? Try to break that cycle if you can. Maybe just take half instead of a whole that 2nd or 3rd time.
Take a few minutes each day to write a gratitude list. 5 things that you are grateful for, even if it was just a person smiling at you, or a thank you a coworker said for getting the copy from the printer for them. keep it simple. It may seem silly at first, but it will over a week or two start to make your sense of well being stronger which in turn will aide with those suicidal thoughts and depression as well.
You can make it through this, just one step at a time. You are seeking help and acknowledging that there is an issue which is HUGE. I can't stress that enough. Keep telling yourself that you are strong and that you are ready to have your life back to where you'd like it to be, and you will find yourself there soon! PM me with your progress!
Best wishes and warm thoughts your way,
Briggs1
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@ aciddeath and Briggs
Thanks guys for the support.
As for my dosing schedule at first it was just when I was stressed and at work. Started taking 10mg every time I got a bit stressed out but then after a while I noticed I had to keep taking more because 10mg at one point just wasn't doing anything.
The next thing I know am poping 6-8 pills a day and I don't know how it happened it's like it snuck up on me.
I have never had an addiction problem in my life till now.
The only reason I keep diazepam on hand is in case one of my LSD trips goes bad.
(I find diazepam can mellow out an LSD trip if things go bad )
But I had about 200 tablets and thought hell why not have a stress free time at work and try some.
So I started taking them before working and the next thing I know am trapped in a vicious cycle that I just cant break.
Anyway.....As for my current my dosing schedule it's been very erratic and random. It's like I get random cravings and irritability that only diazepam can help me with and at times I just feel so angry.
I first noticed it a few days ago I thought I was just stressed from work but then I started having suicidal thoughts and feelings of depression and it just started getting weird.
That's when I knew I had a problem.
But at any rate I took 30mg yesterday and today I have lowered it to 20mg I fell I bit irritable like a pent up rage feeling. But am not going to take anymore today. Over the next week or two am going to lower it to 10mg then 5mg and then see if I can just cut it off.
But at any rate when I get off this shit am only going use this shit for emergencies from now on. e.g bad trip's or some type of family crisis but even then only if I have to.
Benzo's are some very freaky shit I feel like a heroin addict. It's like Diazepam is controlling my life :/
Thanks guys
SpeedCrunch
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One thing to remember when quitting drugs of any sort is that it is easy to quit. Many people end up not quitting because they have a false sense of how difficult it will be. It isn't difficult at all. It is quite a simple process - stop taking drugs. Friends and some kind of support (AA/NA meetings etc...) is quite helpful.
I was addicted to Heroin and Fentanyl (v. high doses). I quit in a couple of days with Buprenorphine powder and Ketamine.
I was addicted also to Phenazepam. I was taking 2000mg/day. I was prescribed Carbemazepine and went cold turkey on the Phenazepam. Not reccomended. I still had a seizure and all my knuckles on my right hand are flat now where I ground them off on the floor. A Taper would be a good idea, but probably wouldn't work very well with a long acting benzo such as Phenazepam.
For anybody quitting opiates:
Small doses of Ketamine will remove withdrawal symptoms.
Methadone is harder to get off than Heroin and some other opiates (longer half life = much longer withdrawals).
Buprenorphine is good, but the branded Subutex/Subuxone seem to make people feel sick.
For anybody quitting Benzodiazepines:
Carbamazepine is needed.
A taper is not needed, but is highly recommended.
Remember to quit caffeine too!
Any tapers I would recommend finishing as soon as possible.
Any body who cant sleep during detox. Deal with it. The last thing you want is a sleeping pill addiction.
I am now 100% drug free. I still suffer from amnesia caused by the Phenazepam. And I still get phantom taste smell of Ketamine and Fentanyl from time to time.
Hope this helps.
This is very good advice IMO.....+1 to mju7
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I'd like to quit drug abuse and be content being sober and "clear" headed again.
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Reading some of the statements here brings me down to Earth... i'll be the most moderate consumer as possible, i've done coke some times before, but didn't like it that much.
I'm not much of an alcohol consumer as well, so this sometimes can let me between the wall and the sword, i can't be sober at weekends :P... so i am getting too anxious and taking mdma quite regularly... stopped now for awhile, 1 month and a half, will do again when 2 months have passed.
It's also quite scary that i've been smoking weed every single day... I really can't imagine how hard must be to quit Heroin or some opiates...
Need to face the fact that drug consumption can be done with recreational purposes, very few times in a year, if i can maintain this discernment i'll be enjoying some fucking awesome LSD trips and mdma rolls for years without noticeable damage :D
need to preserve the brain, i'm still studying lol
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I have a problem.. I seem to have hurt my nose. -sniffsniff- I need help
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Snort some more coke , until you can't feel it anymore. You should be fine...
If you have ketamine, try 1g. No more pain.
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THAT WHITE HORSE???!??!?!
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I just wanted to drop by and say thank you.
Thanks to this thread and the people in it I am now Diazepam (Benzo) free :) (Been off the shit for about 2 weeks now)
All I can say is if your taking Diazepam be very careful it sneaks up on you and before you know it your trapped.
Very Kind regards to all those who have helped in this thread. :)
I also want to add no matter what drug your taking never EVER! underestimate it and always respect the drug your taking. (To be honest I feel lucky this could of turned out so much worse)
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holy shit, this thread scares the shit out of me.
i'm not at all a hardcore user. i'll drop an E maybe 3-4 times a year at music festivals, but weed has always been my drug of choice. i've been smoking for about 12 years. for the first 9 years of that, it was completely under control. it was a quarter a month and i'd only smoke on weekends. i only needed 5-6 cones a night and i was done.
its funny, i spent 9 years having arguments over the merits of pot and arguing that it isn't really a physically addictive drug.
and then over the last 3 years, i realised how wrong i was. it's a combination of things - i moved away from all my family an friends for a job. i hated the job when i got there but was stuck in it til about 5 months ago. but i had money, and in the city that i now live in (not to mention SR now), i have availability like I never had before.
now? if i'm really stressed or really anxious, that quarter that used to last me a month is lucky to last me a day. i started leaving my new job, one that i like, early most days so i could go home and smoke. i've cut off friends, i deferred the uni degree that i was studying part time, and on days like today when i don't have any and can't get any, i shake and i can't sit still.
and 'they' say that pot isn't addictive?
i don't know what to do. i have an addictive personality, i know this. i've been addicted to gambling, but got away from it. i've had what i 'diagnosed' as the early stages of an alcohol addiction, but i managed to escape that. i hurt my back about 4 years ago, spent 2 years on pain killers that i realised i was addicted to - to the point where i hurt it again a couple of months ago and won't take anything other than anti inflammatories. and i smoke ciggies too.
but pot is different. i wanted to give up gambling, cos it cost me too much money - and i wanted that money to buy pot. i wanted to give up alcohol, because the high from weed was better than from whiskey or vodka - and so my alcohol money was better spent on weed. i wanted to give up the pain killers because i thought at the time it was diluting my high.
i don't want to give up pot. it makes me feel great. it helps me relax. it helps me lose my anxieties and stresses.
and whereas before i'd go a day without gambling and i'd think "this is ok - i can do this, and it'll be good" - now I go a day without pot and don't know how i'll get through it. panicking at 3 in the afternoon about how i'll get to sleep tonight. panicking about how i'll work tomorrow with nothing to come home to, or how i'll sleep tomorrow night, because the earliest my SR order will come is Tuesday (more likely Wednesday).
so back to my original comment about this thread scaring the shit out of me.
i don't want to give up pot. i don't want to give up that high. but i do wish that i never had to 'suffer' these days where i don't have any.
i started looking at other illicit drugs. because my tolerance to pot is high; because i'm confident that, unlike pot, i could have something like lsd in the house and not feel as though i have to use it; and because lsd and coke were the 2 that i always wanted to try, but never have. (crystal and heroin can fuck off, i have no interest in trying either)
i don't think i'll be doing that any more... to be jonesing today without pot doesn't bode well for me if i enjoy coke or lsd a little bit too much. i just wish i could buy pot from the corner store so i don't have to be without. (which, in a sensible world of harm minimisation, rather than criminalisation, would be the case!)
so yeah, it's a pot addiction - but the advice i want isn't how to give it up. it's what i can/should most safely do (or what i should use) on days like today where i'm jonesing from a lack of pot.
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I just wanted to drop by and say thank you.
Thanks to this thread and the people in it I am now Diazepam (Benzo) free :) (Been off the shit for about 2 weeks now)
All I can say is if your taking Diazepam be very careful it sneaks up on you and before you know it your trapped.
Very Kind regards to all those who have helped in this thread. :)
I also want to add no matter what drug your taking never EVER! underestimate it and always respect the drug your taking. (To be honest I feel lucky this could of turned out so much worse)
Hi SpeedCrunch,
Being addicted to weed is not funny business. Been smoking for about 4.5 years daily and I'm still very young with no want to stop or quit. I have given up other drugs for weed money as well but I find that maybe you should consider changing the way you smoke so that you don't waste as much weed to get high and fiend less? I recently bough a nice portable vaporizer ($250) and it has already conserved me at least weeks worth of bud every month. It also makes it so I dont have to smoke constantly throughout the night to get high (you stay high for longer, different temperatures create different "high's" 320-350 is more of a head high 345-370 more of a stoned body high. I usually smoke a lower temp vape in the day time and maybe one two vape packs at night on a higher temperature.
Get some hobbies for when you are out of bud... I try "rewarding" myself with weed by spending a day doing things around my house, school, that I know I won't accomplish when I have extra $$ or weed to spare. Or maybe start by making one day a week that you don't smoke and go through a routine that day of getting things done...
From experience, stay busy otherwise there's no way to stop you from shaking and dwelling on the lack of bud...
Stay strong! ;)
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funnily enough with drugs im a take it or leave it kind of guy, sometimes... Although when im on a mission very few things make me stop passing out does, ended up at a right shithole doing mcat the other night, was full of local scumbags, i only half noticed like "what the fuck am i doing here",
that aside, i never feel a need to retake drugs after or anything ill go months without them (years if i felt like it).
However booze is one thing (im youngish) i cant let go of, or behave sensibly on i think if i have one pint ill have to have 20, then the next day due to regret from the night before ill start it all over again, however i managed to break that cycle with some help, although it has started again ish, at weekends i began drinking again after 6 months tea totalled, and im displaying the same things, i made a forum acc but lost the pass cos i was pissed (oh well), but not every day like before thank god for that, it can really wreck your life addiction doing nothing every day except either avoiding life, or indulging in mindless behavior. goodluck to everyone suffering at the moment, you need help and can do it.
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I'm currently working a 12 step program as a result of some problems with authority. It's not as cultish as it seems. I think the important thing it does is it puts people in contact who are trying to solve a common problem. If you want to learn guitar, you hang out with people who play guitar. But if you don't do what they do, you're still gonna play like shit. That's the role the 12 steps play in AA for me.
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Benzos are known to cause depression. So, if you're feeling blue or suicidal after using benzo, you should probably ween off of it.
However, Xanax is one benzo that may not exacerbate depression if used responsibly.
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Awesome thread. My suggestion to anyone struggling with addiction is plant a vegetable garden and smoke DMT in it. Encapsulate an MAOi like Syrian Rue and ingest about 7 grams of it prior to the invocation. A lot of people like to listen to trippy music like Shpongle but I'm the exact opposite. Give me a healthy dose of dreamsters, a sensory deprivation chamber, and all my earthly problems just fade away. I haven't touched narcotics, alcohol, caffeine or even processed foods (possibly the worst of them all) in over three years and couldn't be happier. Oh yeah, and fuck TV and fuck electoral politics because you'll get nothing but horseshit from either. Read, read, and read some more. Philosophy, Economics, and Psychonautics are my go-to subjects and are, I feel, the most useful in freeing oneself of all mental slavery whether it be chemicals, poverty, the state, etc. Life is short and every moment passed is an opportunity cost of not having done something more worthwhile.
PS I have no experience with Ibogaine but have heard it's very useful for getting the monkey off your back. As always, proceed with caution. Good luck and long live the Agora!
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Hi guys I am from Brazil, new around here and looking for nice and good weed for a fair price of course ...
Could you help who can sell me that weed that I am looking for ?
Thanks guys
Take care
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Benzos are known to cause depression. So, if you're feeling blue or suicidal after using benzo, you should probably ween off of it.
However, Xanax is one benzo that may not exacerbate depression if used responsibly.
I've read a lot of comments in various threads about people keeping benzos on hand so that they can easily sleep at the end of an acid trip or abort a bad trip. Whilst that might seem to be a good idea these pharmaceuticals are pretty addictive and it seems as though it can easily become a habit.
I have a friend who ended up seriously addicted to antidepressants after her doctor prescribed them for her post-natal depression. A little bit of an internet search and I found that the withdrawal period was longer and more severe than heroin. She's been on them for some time (years) and the prospect of getting off soon is not high. What I cant believe is how physically different these drugs have made her look. Scary shit.
I have one Benzo that came with some acid that I ordered but I swear that I won't use it unless the train really, really derails. Derailing can be pretty insightful at times anyway and I think is part of the territory. Do we take acid just to see freaky shit or to learn a little more about ourselves?
Please be careful with big phama products people. Why do you think they make so much money? Yes the masses that are addicted to them.
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Benzos are known to cause depression. So, if you're feeling blue or suicidal after using benzo, you should probably ween off of it.
However, Xanax is one benzo that may not exacerbate depression if used responsibly.
I've read a lot of comments in various threads about people keeping benzos on hand so that they can easily sleep at the end of an acid trip or abort a bad trip. Whilst that might seem to be a good idea these pharmaceuticals are pretty addictive and it seems as though it can easily become a habit.
I have a friend who ended up seriously addicted to antidepressants after her doctor prescribed them for her post-natal depression. A little bit of an internet search and I found that the withdrawal period was longer and more severe than heroin. She's been on them for some time (years) and the prospect of getting off soon is not high. What I cant believe is how physically different these drugs have made her look. Scary shit.
I have one Benzo that came with some acid that I ordered but I swear that I won't use it unless the train really, really derails. Derailing can be pretty insightful at times anyway and I think is part of the territory. Do we take acid just to see freaky shit or to learn a little more about ourselves?
Please be careful with big phama products people. Why do you think they make so much money? Yes the masses that are addicted to them.
This has been discussed multiple times here on the forums :) and I agree with what you said. Benzos are great tools, but using them recreationally is dancing with the devil. I never got much of a recreational value from them anyways...So I suggest everyone to stay away from benzos unless you want to use them during WDs, to end a bad trip etc. :) Benzo withdrawals are indeed worse than heroin (or other hard drugs) and can take up to months. Stay safe ;)
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Hi guys I am from Brazil, new around here and looking for nice and good weed for a fair price of course ...
Could you help who can sell me that weed that I am looking for ?
Thanks guys
Take care
Your post is in "Thread for those that need help quitting their drug of choice"
Is your post a cry for help that we have to work out ourselves?
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This is a great resource ...mainly for coke users http://www.saolproject.ie/cocaineresources.php can download free resources
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My girlfriend of 1 year came to me last night and admitted that she has had a problem with Percocet 30mg. She has been doing them off and on for close to 1 year. This explains alot to me but that's a whole different story. She was doing between .5 and 1.5 pills a day and snorted them.
She started today by taking 1/4 suboxone. Is there any advice anyone can give me and or advice to pass on to her?
Thanks
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I am not trying to be insincere or an ass, but she really doesn't need the suboxone. That isn't a large dose to withdrawl from. Sure she will have withdrawls, but it is something she should go through to quit. It seems like is on the fence if she is avoiding the withdrawl with subs. 1.5 years and only 30 mg of percocet a day aren't really going to produce that bad of withdraws.
Speaking from experience with opiate addiction there are many times you know you want to quit and need to, but there is still a part of you that doesn't, so you switch to a substitute or say you are going to taper, but it hardly ever works out that way. I probably quit heroin 1000 times before I finally just said I was done doing opiates at all ever and that is the only way I have been able to stay away from heroin (I know subs aren't actually an opiate, but she will w/d without them and they give an opiate like effect) I broke an almost four year daily heroin habit and there is no way I would of done it unless I just refused to do opiates.
It is hard. Just be supportive and don't be surprised if she relapses it is part of it really. I 99% of opiate addicts relapse a few times before they actually stay sober. Don't get mad if she does, but try to understand and talk to her about the relapse. There is nothing worse when you are trying to get clean and relapse and everyone unleashes hell on you like you did it because you wanted to relapse. It is a hard addiction to understand if you have never been there, but obviously she wants to get clean I just don't think subs or methadone are a way to get clean because you aren't breaking the addiction in my opinion. That should be a last resort if you absolutely can't get clean and that is usually long term users of heroin who have a big habit and there is just no way they can go cold turkey.
I am sure there are a lot of people who will disagree with me about this post, but I have been there and after I got clean I would see how all my friends never did and would try and try with maintenance programs, but they all still are on dope and the longest they stay clean is in jail.
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What's considered an addiction regarding cocaine use?
Is needing it everyday or 5 days of the week or is it based on how often or much you find yourself needing to do it?
It's a powerful drug the way it can make you trick yourself into doing more and more...just another line, one more and that's it, one for being so good deciding that the last one was my last!
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If you need any drug it is an addiction. Wanting it is different, but if you can't function without it then your addicted. I would say you are addicted to coke when it interferes with your life in multiple negative aspects. Examples: Spending rent on drug, causing strain in your personal relationships such as friends family girlfriend/wife, not being able to have fun with out it such as going to the bar without cocaine is no longer fun and you would rather wait it until you had some coke but before it use to not matter.
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One thing that helped with me (cigarettes have been my only issue though) is change of routine. This only really works for drugs that don't have strong withdraws though. We tend to work bad habits in our daily routine. So if possible, take some things out or change it around. It can be a big help. Try fitting in activities that can replace your use.
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Have any of you tried a psychedelic to help stop.your drug of choice? helped me quit meth
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Have any of you tried a psychedelic to help stop.your drug of choice? helped me quit meth
This.
I have heard of MANY cases of breaking of addictions after taking psychedelics.
How exactly did it work if I may ask? I'm not sure how to articulate it correctly, but how did the LSD make you feel something different the next day that made you not crave meth? Was it insight of some sort?
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Here let me just quote myself from another thead.
I didn't really want to comment on the bumping of the heads in this thread, but it is the internet and when people are discussing things that they're passionate about, disagreements are sure to occur. You may not accept what he experiences while tripping as profound but to him it could be the most awesome experience ever to love on his wife while tripping, and the opposite holds true for you as well. We are all different breeds of people but is interesting to see how different people from different walks of life take in from their tripping experiences. You both seem to have your hearts in the right place, but regarding him buying up the market, if i had the money i would stock pile it myself just to have it so i could pass out the experience to people.
Where I live meth is a king, but i want to be able to help my fellow people get off that destructive mode of living. I know using a drug to combat another drug will be a fucked up notion to a lot of people that don't understand the phenomenon. The only bad trip I've ever had was also probably best thing that could have happened for me in the long run but I admit that I am a hard head and didn't accept the teachings of it. I was strung the fuck out on methamphetamine had been up for five days and on Halloween day, in the morning while i was there in my room tweaking I said out loud "Satan, I believe you exist if i eat some acid tonight" Low and behold after having not tripped in years somebody dosed me with like what felt like 8 or 9 drops of liquid. That shit was a lot to chew on while i was tripping. And then the next morning my girlfriend at the time was telling me some awful things about wanting to have an abortion if she was pregnant and then my father calling me and telling me I was a piece of shit thief for ordering some guitar strings with my mom's money. The next day was terrible, still hadn't slept and was crushed by realizing what a worthless pile of excrement i was becoming as a human being, and i really wanted to kill myself. Plus this was like a monday morning and wendnesday i had to go see my parole officer and my piss was extremely hot. I parked my car in the park and cried for a while and had to call a different ex girlfriend of mine, just to have someone to talk to. So I eventually made it back to my parents house. I was still very depressed at this point and was sitting out on the front porch just letting my thoughts wonder. Then the church bells started to ring, and it was the most beautiful sound I'd ever heard. And then i could hear the phone ring, and my mom brought it to me, strangest fucking thing, it was my parole officer, he told me not to come in that Wednesday for whatever reason. It was like the greatest gift ever was bestowed on me. That helped me stop doing meth for a long time but that's another story.
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I used to blow multiple grams a day of the purest shit around.
It all started out as fun and before I knew it I had wasted so many years and hundreds of thousands on drugs and partying.. unfortunately, I did not have the problem that most would have.. needing more money for their addiction., so I was able to take myself pretty low before I realized I had to quit.
Having a heart attack = bad news= time to quit.
The best advice I can give to someone who might be how I was is to surround yourself with people who care about your well-being and want to see you grow old and happy with them.. not all fucked up on (insert drug of choice here) or trying to take make money off ya. so yeah aa meetings and support groups/ family support worked for me, of course I fucked up and pissed a lot of people off around me because of my addicitons, but the ones who truely cared about me saw through it all and stuck with me until I could quit everything
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I recently started on a Nootropic regimen in a vain attempt to be able to function whilst not on amphetamines(not an addiction per se, I've had a complete inability to focus when sober since I was quite young) and one of the most surprising results I've had is that its destroyed my nicotine addiction. I don't feel the 'need' to smoke, although I still do from time to time, rather more as an added stimulant hit than anything else though.
I'm not sure if it was the Noopept or Pramiracetam that did it, when I run out of one of them I'll find out I guess.
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(I know subs aren't actually an opiate, but she will w/d without them and they give an opiate like effect) I broke an almost four year daily heroin habit and there is no way I would of done it unless I just refused to do opiates.
Yeah, I thought the same thing. This isn't a really heavy addiction haha... anyway suboxone IS an opiate, it's just not a full opiod agonist, it's a partial opiod agonist :p
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Hi guys I am from Brazil, new around here and looking for nice and good weed for a fair price of course ...
Could you help who can sell me that weed that I am looking for ?
Thanks guys
Take care
Read section and topic title man, this is really the place you should avoid when to ask of good stuff as here it comes mostly addicted people.
I really like this thread: I think that it's one of the few places where you can actually have a mature and objective discussion about drugs. When I try to discuss drugs policies and stuff with friends and parents it seems that they're stuck at the definition drug=something that will SURELY harm you because it's illegal. Such a shame so much people don't think with their head..
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One thing that helped with me (cigarettes have been my only issue though) is change of routine. This only really works for drugs that don't have strong withdraws though. We tend to work bad habits in our daily routine. So if possible, take some things out or change it around. It can be a big help. Try fitting in activities that can replace your use.
^^^^
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Anyone used tramadol to help break from other prescription opiates? I believe tramadol isn't a full opiate (isn't it synthetic or something?) so I would "assume" its not as habit forming? I'm up to 15mgish (oxy) about 2-3 times a week, and I really need to keep it at bay. I definitely find myself missing it on the days off but I'm not quite ready to stop. I know its trying to grab me so trying to be semi-smart about it..
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I imagine some reading this are struggling to quit cigarettes. I managed to quit myself with the electronic cigarette. A lot of people know about e-cigs, but something they may not know about is Swedish Snus. Now, there are Camel and Marlboro snus available in the USA, but they taste like crap and have very little nicotine in them. You have to order the snus from Sweden, and there are a few websites like buysnus and snuscentral that will ship it to you. For those in the EU, it is more difficult, but there are ways to get it.
The Swedes did a 30 year study of the health effects of snus and found that very little harm resulted in using snus. The Swedes have the lowest rate of lung cancer in the EU, in part due to people quitting smoking by using snus. I myself have quit smoking several times over the years, for long periods of time, only to go back. Now, armed with my e-cig device and swedish snus, I have quit now for almost 2 years. Occasionally I will bum a smoke in social settings, and never fear getting addicted to it. A few months back I discovered snus and I love it. You place it in your upper lip, and you don't need to spit. It doesn't cause you to produce saliva, so you just taste the mix of tobacco, salt, and other flavors and you get a really nice buzz from the nicotine. They make regular, strong, and extra strong snus. The nic hit isn't at all like cigarettes, it's smoother and feels like an IV drip of nicotine. A very nice relaxing buzz. There are a ton of brands to choose from as well. This is a 300 year old tradition in Sweden and many of the snus brands have been around for a long long time.
Although you will be trading one habit for another, it's certainly worth it. Snus are much cheaper than cigarettes, there is no worry about getting cancer, you get a really nice buzz, and the variety of tastes available with the different brands keeps you interested. Many people switch from dip to snus and/or cigarettes to snus. Many people report having little difficulty getting away from smoking once they discovered snusing. Hope this helps someone out there struggling with that nasty habit of smoking.
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I just realized that I have gotten very obsessed with drugs. It is in my mind a lot. Also thinking about when and where I can use it and where I could get drugs. Now that I have access to SR, the where is no problem anymore. And receiving & using my first order was funny enough when I realized that I am heading the wrong way. I am setting a limit on my use.
It is quite sneaky how the mind works, how it justifies and how blind it can be.
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At one stage in my life it felt like everything was crashing in at once...I lost my job and my wife left me. I medicated myself daily on hard booze and opiates (RC's). I knew i had to stop one way or another Or I would be dead. I tried going to the doctor, counseling and tacking various medications and none really help out in any way. I know it seems peculiar (suppose its just me) but receiving a pet cat from a friend as a gift, I found significantly lowered my intake of drugs. Don't know what it is...hopefully a psychiatrist or someone from the medical background could shed some light.
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EXCELLENT THREAD!!!
ok... very interesting about ketamine stopping opiate withdrawal.
is this the same for a synthetic opiate like DHC which i am dependant on 2yrs plus and cant get off?
pm me or reply... would be really interested to know about the KETAMINE withdrawal soother effect. cant stand these stupid dhc pills anymore but half life is short and withdrawal very instantly BAD! any help or advice greatly appreciated ... i also heard the B powder may help but doctor says otherwise!!!
thank you ! :)
peace
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If you want to learn how to kick an addiction, simply watch trainspotting lol. Everything you need to know, right there in one awesome fucking movie. In all seriousness addiction is terrible, even though I have never had to go through it, and hopefully have enough self control to never have, I wish nothing but the best to those struggling with addiction.
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If stopping drugs altogether is your goal NA works and it costs nothing. Shrinks and treatment all end up pointing you there anyway. I suggest anyone withdrawing from physically addictive substances incorporate a basic yoga practice of at least 12 sun salutations followed by 10 min relaxation/meditation whether they are 100% clean or not. In my experience it greatly alleviates sickness. Not entirely but it a reprieve and you will get in shape. It is easy to switch drugs and binge on cigarettes and coffee. Although I am not 100% clean being intentional with what I am doing has made a huge difference. Addiction hates life.
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It's very interesting to me that virtually no one in this thread has a meth problem. There's a lot of talk about it having the wost recovery rates of any drug. I've seen some estimates put recovery chances at 20%, as in 80% of addicts die still addicted and still using. I don't know if I really believe that, but I've seen it said.
It honestly disturbs me that there's like... nobody here who says they want to quit. So I'm curious: is there anybody out there at all that even *wants* to stop their daily meth use...? Addict or not, do you *want* to stop? Do you ever intend to?
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I am frightened to hear answers to SS's question. I would argue, however that those who quit would steer clear of anything relating to meth as it is a psychologically addictive drug. Not thinking about it = Not craving it. Or all those who have fallen to it completely, need more help than this thread. I also think that many people are able to conquer the habit by themselves without going into rehab. Its an easy drug to quit if you have enough courage.
I have been strongly considering this option as a way of assuring that I stick to safe levels of use.
This is a TIMED SAFE. It only allows access after X period of time which the owner sets before locking it.
CLEARNET LINK!
http://captureddiscipline.com/
It is $130 which is pretty cheap for the potential harm that this drug holds. It would work well for SR because of the length of time between ordering product and its delivery, it is easier to watch the safe and wait for it to open.
It would also be good for just about any other drug. I am not posting this for advertisement.
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I'm in a bit of a hurry at the moment, but I'll be back to elaborate/respond later...
Does anyone have anything to say about using Ibogaine to help quitting ones drug of choice?(opiates, heroin in particular) Any info on dosage, preparation for the trip, experiences, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Hmmmmmmm......
There are also some herbals that may help.
I have heard a lot of people have reported that kratom tea can really help with withdrawals from hydrocodone and oxycodone (regular, not contin). I do not know if it helps with heavy drugs like heroin and oxycontin. There is a lot of variation in the potency and quality of kratom, but the "Maeng Da" strain is the best and more expensive. wwww.iamshaman.com is a reliable site. Unfortunately, kratom is not legal in Australia and for no good reason, just morbid puritanism. What you do is take a handful of the kratom (preferably Maeng Da) and throw it into about a liter of boiling water and simmer for half an hour. Sweetening it might help with the bitterness. The idea is to drink a glassful of the tea when you feel withdrawals coming on and keep drinking it until your symptoms subside. Kratom can be addictive in some people but this is rare. If you have used kratom heavily, taper off your dose over about a week to ten days and you are unlikely to have problems. Kratom is fairly euphoric in its own right and may satisfy the craving for opiates when you are trying to cut back.
The other herb falls in a legal grey area but is becoming more and more available. It is easily available in the Andean region of South america and in most of the English speaking countries. This is coca leaf, the source of cocaine. Typically you get it as tea bags or as candy or as ground coca leaf flour. Despite the fact that coca is the source of cocaine, its effects are nothing like drug cocaine. Coca leaf tea is as mild as mother's milk, almost exquisitely gentle yet effective. I am not sure if it qualifies as a true stimulant, for example it generally makes blood pressure go down a little rather than rise. generally coca leaf causes a feeling of clarity and awareness. It abolishes fatigue and depression, clears the fog from your head, makes you feel more alert and aware, but generally without any "kick" or "rush". It just makes you feel like you are having a really good day. it gives you a rather dogged kind of endurance if you do something physically active. It is also relaxing and relieves anxiety. These latter effects become stronger if you increase the dose and large doses tend to result in drowsiness and sedation. You will NOT get "speedy" effects. Coca resembles prescription antidepressants of the reuptake inhibitor class, and this is cocaine's primary effect, at least when taken as coca. Coca tea is mood brightening, fatigue relieving and also a fairly strong analgesic, somewhat like Tramadol. Coca may interact with prescription reuptake inhibitors so be cautious if you are taking something like that, especially serotonin reuptake inhibitors like Prozac. studies in South America hvae shown that coca tea is much the most effective agent in rehabilitating cocaine addicts, Cocaine in coca acts as a non-selective triple reuptake inhibitor for Serotonin, Norepinephrine, and Dopamine. There is general recognition that such triple reuptake inhibitors are the best agents against depression and many are also effective analgesics. For a variety of reasons, they have had trouble with bringing these drugs to market. One is too unstable to be stored, others ineffective, others toxic or with intolerable side effects, and a few have marked stimulent effects which makes them addictive, There is really no need for all this bother as coca leaf is highly safe, free of side effects and not at all addictive. the problem with heavy cocaine users is their neurons which react to serotonin, norepinehrine and dopamine become heavily "downregulated" due to excessive continued overstimulation. When they go off coke, their neurohormone activated neurons have little activity and they feel depressed and awful and this can persist a long time. Coca leaf tea reverses the downregulation effect and restores something close to normal activity, tCoca leaf tea, at least in most English speaking countries can be readily obtained by going to amazon.com and putting "coca leaf" into their search engine and making an order. i suspect it may also be useful for much the same reason for people having problems with amphetamines. it is well worth a try and it is nice stuff to try out even if you are not into stimulants.
DarkPharoah
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Hmmmmm..... If you want to try something natural, consider high quality kava kava. This is perfectly legal in the U.S. but may be problematic in Europe. The main problem most people have with kava is they get crap and take it in small doses and dont get anything worthwhile from it. I only recommend genuine organically grown Hawaian kava and make sure it is a named variety. More than 20 years ago some Native Hawaians realized they were losing their language as well as their culture and decided to do something about it. One custom that had been lost since about 1950 was kava drinking (it is called 'awa in Hawaiian). They looked into jungles around old farming areas and were able to recover many native varieties quietly growing in the forest. These native varieties of kava kava are the best in the world. Anything from other islands has without fail proven disappointing, It is widely believed the natives of these other islands save the best for themself and sell inferior mass produced kava (grown in a hurry with lots of pesticides) to outsiders. Anyway, the Hawaiian kind is very noticeably superior and has outstanding effects. If you have never been impressed by kava this will change your mind! it is typically organically grown in rich volcanic soil and allowed to grow for around 5 years. Only the roots are used and none of the potentially toxic above ground parts. Native kava kava in its traditonal form has NEVER been associated with hepatotoxicity. Kava extracts prepared in Europe made extensive use of the very cheap above ground parts of the plant which the natives never use despite the fact they are rich in kavalactones. It turns out they contain one or more alkaloids that can cause liver problems (very rarely and at a rate well below the rate of benzodiazapines ) with the liver. Prepared extracts besides, never seem to have the fine effects of the classic drink.
I recommend the fine mahakea kava at www.konakavafarm.com Just get the straight powdered kava, not any of the prepared products. www.mauikava.com often offers several different vaarieties, depending on the season. Right now, they only seem to have Isa, a really potent and long lasting medicinal kava from New Guinea, the original homeland of kava It might be the thing for high powered antianxiety problems. It is often called "tuday' because the effects last into the next day. Can cause nausea in people with sensitive stomachs. the Maui site sometimes offers other varieties. I reciommend the Moi (or purple Moi), a fast acting rather crebral kava or Papa Ele Ele, which has a nice balance of physical to mental effects. The balance of the different kavalavctones determines the effects of the kava. there is a special number code that indicates the composition of the major kavalactones in a prticular variety of kava. You can look this up if you take a real interest. it is sometimes called the "chemotype" and typically contains three or six numbers showing the principal kavalactones in that particular bvariety of kava.
Anyway, get straight kava powder. put about a pint of water heated to about 120 degrees F into a blender that has been well rinsed with hot water. (Dont make it too hot or you will damage the kavalactones!) Add several tablespoons of kava powder into the blender with 1 tablespoon of lecithin granules and two tablespoons of vegetable oil. Then blend on "high" for about 5 minutes. If the powder is very fine, you don't to strain it otherwise just use a fine strainer. It should be drunk right a way and gulp it down quickly. This is how the natives do it. Although the underlying flavor of good kava is not bad, just kind of earthy, the kavalactones first create a bitter slightly burning effect on the throat followed by numbness. Kava is a close relative to black pepper and has a hint of its heat, especially the primitive Isa variety which smells like pepper too. You can try adding it to other liquids but I find it best to just drink it down and get it over with. It nverthelless rests comforttably on the stomach which should be empty. You will feel affects in 5 minutes. It is a marvelous feeling of deep peacefulness and relaxation. Drinking more cupfuls increase the effect. The kavalactones do not act like any other sedative/hypnotic. They act somewhat similarly to cannabinoids in marijuana. Like them, they act as "lipoidal neuromodulators). These attach themselves to the sides of selected nerve cells and alter their responsiveness to stimulation. Cannabinoids act prominently on the higher brain. The kavalactones dont and work almost entirely on the primitive reptile brain, where fear and hate and aggression originate. Kava has a unique ability to promote peacefulness. in the islands it is widely drunk before dealing with tense situations like business disputes and lawsuits. I can think of two proverbs the Hawaiians have about kava. one is "Drink kava so the spirit may be nourished and grow strong." The other is "Walk carefully after you drink much of kava lest the earth ris up to meet you."
Anyway, kava is free of serious toxicity and no known fatalities, Seriously overendulging in it may cause hangover and nausea the next day. If you drink lots of it over time, you are likely to develop an itchy, scaly condition called "lomelome", "kanekane" or lots of other native names. In areas where kava is rare and expensive it is a bit of a status symbol but in other areas it may be regarded as a shameful sign of overindulgence. it goes away quickly if you stop using kava and will not return if you moderate yuour intake. It is the result of kavalactones accumulating in the subcutaneous fat. Kava kava is worth exploring if you have anxiety issues.
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I really can't recommend anyone take kava for any length of time. Even the FDA has released public warnings that it can cause liver failure; it's just not safe for anything but extremely rare use (which means it's basically useless unless you don't give a fuck about the organs keeping you alive & feeling well).
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I have quit on ciggies myself too and I did it with sheer will power. Never put yourself into something so much that you can't get out of it, well if you have then you are really screwed.I can't image being in that position. But not giving into the urge finally pays off. Just remember the 21 day rule and don't think about the drug as much as you can. A change or distraction certainly helps!!
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I have an experience with nearly all the addictive drugs, mainly opiates but have abused alcohol, benzos and wat not... And in my opinion to quit any drug of your choice psychedelics are the best...
Any psychedelic if taken for self realization gives you trips those are meant to explore your inner being. And when you explore your inner being, you get to know yourself.. What you are good at and what not. Trip hard on a psychedelic and the best option is to meditate on a psych.
Next thing would be your will power, and that is something which is essential.
I abused H for almost 6 years with breaks in between but yes you don't count these breaks when you abuse a substance. You have to be perfectly clean to say you are out of a certain shit.
And when I first did LSD, it was 'wow'. And on my 3 acid trip I stopped using any opiate, or alcohol or any other drug. except (hashish) .. That's a complimentary for me and I don't consider it as a drug but a useful herb that makes you :) ...
So in my opinion psychedelics should be used in an effective way and dosage to sure any addiction and don't forget the beautiful HERB
Be safe,
psytrip
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Great thread,
Before I became a “weekend warrior” I had problems with several drugs. From my experience its not just about the drugs but also about what else is happening in your life. Sometimes you have to deal with that before tackling your habits.
What worked for me was to become a health nut. A massive exercise regime and becoming interested in good nutrition. The exercise makes your body produce endorphins, which act on the same receptors in the brain as do the drugs so it takes the edge of the craving.
Caring for your body also makes you want to abuse it less. Having said that I think being fit means when I do indulge I get more wasted than my friends and recover better too.
Anyway it works for me.
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I have a lot of love and respect for this thread.
I wish I didn't have such a bad MJ habit, but I'm very thankful to have given up Nicotine on my own.
You just really gotta want to actually quit. That goes for anything that you want to give up.
Although physical addiction is pretty damn bad, so is psychological.
The only way to "fix" a craving is just to get your mind off it as soon as possible. (Easier said than done, I know)
The more you play around with those thoughts, the more likely you are going to end up rationalizing your decision to use.
I just know that when I start to obsess over a drug in my head, I'm headed nowhere fast.
Moderation is key. Just because you can, doesn't mean you have to.
Now.. If I could just apply this to my life!
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I need help giving up the marijuana. I've smoked heavily daily for 6 years.
The main issues I will have when trying to quit are:
Irritability, trouble sleeping, constipation, loss of appetite, and night sweats.
If you (or any other) have relief for any of the above symptoms, please share.
I would like to note that I am not looking to give up one habit for another, been down that road already.
Are you smoking it straight or mixing it with Tobacco?
If you are then the first step would be to tackle the tobacco addiction first, then the marijuana.
For marijuana this worked for me. It takes a bit of organizing but makes it hurt less.
1. Stop smoking it and start taking it orally. cooking it, eating it, making tea, soaking it in alcohol. Whatever It breaks the habit of cutting up and rolling, which is part of the habit. If you cant do this, you can still try the 2nd part.
2. Setup a dosage schedule for two weeks (or longer) I did it over 1 month.
Use smaller and smaller amounts each day, then quit at the end of schedule.
3. Like I said earlier in thread. do exercise and improve diet. it helps
It still hurts but less so.
As I said this worked for me.
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i def have had some history.
i almost died detoxing from alcohol and still couldn't stay stopped until i started smoking mj everyday and then that actually caused me some trouble because i wasn't dealing with life at all.
i don't think i could have stopped drinking without the mj, for any considerable amount of time, at least. but it took jail and a lot of mindfulness based therapy to find some inner calm so that i feel like i don't need something to feel ok. most of the time now i feel just like i wanted to feel when i was drinking or smoking anyways. happy, accepting, bright, etc.
the 12 steps help you get right with your fellow man and god, which i never really acknowledged except when directing negativity.
i like how people here are saying that you don't have to make that your life, but if you want it they can change your life.
i just come here because i think there's still an enormous amount of fun to be had without being controlled by drugs. i really want to try some lsd and mdma, among other things and this place is a godsend because some of the *legal alternatives just don't seem safe to me anymore.
quitting cigs actually lowered my anxiety/irritability and relapses
excercise, whether it's just walking or a hardcore workout regimen; is indespensible for maintaining happiness and mental stability. imo
check out mindfulness, tich naht hahn has changed my life
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This thread is some read. Some amazing stories. Just thought I'd bump it for anyone who's not seen it. Wasn't it pinned before?
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Great idea for a thread.
In my small world of gram at a time weed purchases, I have a new technique I'm trying out to gain control over my weak will. For years I was weed free but started up again and love the feeling of being high a bit too much. My plan is to try and think about the years when weed was not the biggest thing in my life but a non-concern, something I never even thought about. If I could do it then, then why not now? Will report my longer term results when possible. Until I am able to store a gram of "superduper" in my desk for two months and have it go untouched my work will continue. I want to be able to pull it out and fondle it without caving in to desire to commune with the altered states. Like a race car driver, to be in complete control of my vehicle at all times. This is my goal, even if bitcoin runs up to 1K each and I'm able to buy the best of the best, control over my impulse to suck in the smooth balm of MJ is my plan.
Godspeed and cheers to the the community!
Not sure this will work, as of this edit, spoke to my supplier and of course asked if he had any. May need to extract myself from the supply chain.
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If I could just quit smoking so much fucking pot on a regular basis, I would be rich as fuck.