Quote from: kmfkewm on July 08, 2013, 07:34 amYOU are the one who doesn't seem to grasp that violence breeds violence! THEY ARE USING VIOLENCE AGAINST US AND YOU ARE SAYING WE SHOULD NOT USE VIOLENCE AGAINST THEM!You know it's interesting... I'm incredibly sympathetic to your positions; I generally agree with you on at least what the ideal ends (if not necessarily the means to those ends) should be... and yet it occurs to me just now, you really don't believe that violence and force should be used *solely* because they are the quickest or only means to the end you seek. You want to indulge in your instinctual desire for revenge. That's very understandable... I think we all do. I think we'd all like that very, very much -- those of us who've seen friend's lives destroyed faster and more permanently by "justice" and "rehabilitation" than any crimes they ever committed, anyway.But we can't do that. We musn't do that. Ever. That's how we got here. That's how just looking at a bunch of 0s and 1s that are interpreted and painted as a naked child on a computer screen became very nearly as bad as kidnapping that child and taking the pictures yourself: they're both disgusting things to do, and people hate disgusting people who do disgusting things. They lump them together. People don't want anyone to be so disgusting, and they don't want to accept that some people just plain are. They're also mostly incapable of accepting that it's only their own perspective, and it's no more just to be disgusted than it is to not be (provided no one's harmed, obviously).But that's exactly the reason why we can't lump them together the same way. As long as they don't hurt anybody, they *must* be tolerated. The pedophiles, the circus freaks, the woefully retarded, the malformed and cursed and ostracized and every other manner of disgusting creature ever to have the genes of a human. They *must* be tolerated. Even if they *do* hurt others, punitive damage is not justice. It's justified revenge. It serves no good. It certainly doesn't rehabilitate, that's for damn sure. It -- er... I'm getting off track with this, aren't I... that's neither here nor there, never mind.What I'm getting at is that this tolerance extends to those who would do us harm: they must be tolerated. This is *not* to say they must be allowed to do us harm or that we shouldn't defend ourselves, nor am I saying that we shouldn't -- if necessary -- forcibly restrict their freedoms so that they are unable to continue to hurt us. But that is all that should be done: prevention of future harm. Not visiting harm upon them in response. That just ends up with an extra person being harmed, and people who are harmed generally -- wait for it, wait for it now...! -- wish for revenge (i.e. to harm others). That's... pretty silly to knowingly continue doing, don't you think?Now getting to a point where the ones with the power would choose to restrict the right people and not the ones doing no harm... well, that's another matter entirely. Necessity is a bitch sometimes; if there's no other way, then there's no other way. But I don't think there's no other way. I don't think you do either though. You just don't think there's any *faster* way, is that correct?To jump straight to violence and revenge is to do the same exact thing that got us where we are: ignore logic and rationality in favor of our baser desires. Do you really not agree that society -- any human society -- will never be able to reach its most ideal state without a real commitment to logic and reason? More of one than just abandoning them when convenient for our own personal indulgences, I mean?I guess what I'm asking is... do you not agree that your motivation is in part as reprehensible as those you seek to visit justice upon? I mean that's exactly what *they're* doing. I'm curious and sincerely asking what your perspective is on -- well, on yourself, basically.