Quote from: BlueGiraffe on February 21, 2013, 08:34 pmQuote from: SelfSovereignty on February 21, 2013, 07:21 pmQuote from: TK1991 on February 21, 2013, 05:49 pmQuote from: SelfSovereignty on February 21, 2013, 12:19 amI hope you understand that what you've just done is told someone in so much pain they're literally debating defying thousands of years of instinct and genetic motivationHaha, people have been killing themselves for a long time. To think that we've actually been following any sort of genetic guidelines is not only short sighted, it is flat out wrong. People guzzle high fructose corn syrup, litres a day. Half of them don't even drink water. We drive to work, drive to our family/friends. Hell. Most of us drive 2 blocks to the store when anyone with any sense would just walk. We stick needles in our arms to achieve highs that end up killing us. We show nothing but disregard for out genetics, what makes you think we're supposed to be so against killing ourselves? In this day and age it is weird NOT to think about killing yourself.Humanity is just a soup of terrible genes. People that would've died early in life because of sheer stupidity now grow up to have 12 kids. We are not genetically disposed to anything but death, we are not built to survive anymore.I don't know what happened, hon, but you confuse the Hell out of me these days. This is a poor thread for an academic argument -- I just can't stand people who posit theories as though they were fact and then try to manipulate others based on their own personal interpretations of "reality." So I went for the most obvious flaw I could see, which is how terrible the repercussions would be if they were true. I don't care what someone believes, everyone should have the right to believe anything they choose -- but when you start telling someone in pain that their pain is going to last forever if they're not careful, I take issue with it.So I commented. If you took what I said personally, then I apologize. I didn't mean to offend you. I'm not sure exactly what to say to that though. Regardless, it wouldn't be appropriate in this thread I suppose...SS, please read my response, and please re-read my previous post.I have NEVER said or suggested that "her pain is going to last forever". Once again this is your reading, and (mis)interpretation of my words. Not sure why you're doing that, but anyway...All statements anyone makes are clearly their point of view. To state that every time we speak is superfluous. However I do propose that consciousness is eternal and as we are that, we do not die - can not die. If you wish to believe that physical death is the end of everything you're welcome to that (rather depressing) idea. But it's not my point of view at all :) And frankly if I did have that point of view I would find it very depressing. Happily I know that it doesn't end and it cannot end. We are eternal, never born, never dying. It's a beautiful thing to contemplate. And (KitKat this is for you too) contemplating the unfathomable mystery of how that could be so, and how we even come to exist now, it can be found to be the foundation of sanity and deep peace...Yes, life is fucking hard, and is filled with masses of pain (and probably more pain than pleasure in the final analysis). And it can be headfucking confusing. And so it is. And so it is. Our task is only to recover and express our native happiness and freedom in the midst of that. That is what the shamanic use of drugs is all about at the root, and is what all spiritual systems are purposed towards ultimately. And right here on SR are masses of entheogenic substances that serve that recovery, and many people who know how to use them.It's not a bad place all in all for someone to find their way again...BGThere are two kinds of people here: those who do drugs because they feel good, and those who think that somehow ingesting a chemical lends you magical powers of perception. I'm sorry, but in my eyes, you are fucking insane. It is that clear to me: you are irrational and wrong in my opinion. I have done LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, MDA, 2C-B, marijuana, cocaine, amphetamine, methamphetamine, 2-FMA, 4-FMA, mephedrone, MDPV, and more fucking pharmaceuticals than I can even count let alone remember. I have seen and felt the things that you speak of, and I tell you, you are fucking wrong.It is blatantly obvious to me that you have mistaken the only lesson drugs have to teach -- that we are ephemeral and given to mistaken perceptions. That is it. That is all. Accepting that we fail as often as we succeed in our attempt to perceive the world is the basis of science, it has created this modern world around is, it has made us undisputed masters of all that we see. We are as Gods among these creatures because of science. And you reject it. I cannot understand how you fail to see the power in requiring proof for one's beliefs. Not sensation, proof.I do not go about reminding people that I think they're crazy and stupid for believing that the sensations they experience from drugs are real. They are as real as the fucking molecule in your blood and no more; they are not indicative of some metaphysical truth, and anyone who accepts such a thing on the basis of a sensation and nothing else is mistaken on such a grand level as to be awe inspiring.I am sorry, but in my unprofessional, subjective opinion, you are fucking insane. Go believe your bullshit and stop leading others astray with it. You have every right to believe it. You have NO right to try and manipulate people in pain with it.