Silk Road forums
Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: topshelf1 on June 07, 2013, 08:05 am
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It makes perfect sense if you are trying to infiltrate Silk Road...
you pose as a vendor to get as many real names and addresses as possible...and then steer them to a website off of tor...which means you instantly snag their physical IP address...
At that point it is a simple matter to connect the dots...in order to log into tor you must go through your local IP...if someone already knows the name of the user and their local IP ...they can force the ISP to give them all the records of when that user has accessed tor...
They could even install a keystroke worm on your computer and get your SR usernames...passwords...transactions...etc...
EXTREME CAUTION...THIS DOES NOT PASS THE SMELL TEST...
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It makes perfect sense if you are trying to infiltrate Silk Road...
you pose as a vendor to get as many real names and addresses as possible...and then steer them to a website off of tor...which means you instantly snag their physical IP address...
At that point it is a simple matter to connect the dots...in order to log into tor you must go through your local IP...if someone already knows the name of the user and their local IP ...they can force the ISP to give them all the records of when that user has accessed tor...
They could even install a keystroke worm on your computer and get your SR usernames...passwords...transactions...etc...
EXTREME CAUTION...THIS DOES NOT PASS THE SMELL TEST...
Hopefully people would know better than to access a link outside of the protection afforded by Tor.
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Hopefully people would know better than to access a link outside of the protection afforded by Tor.
Yes...hopefully...but that is exactly what medicinewoman instructs readers of her "guide" to do...
Regards,
Topper...
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Hopefully people would know better than to access a link outside of the protection afforded by Tor.
Yes...hopefully...but that is exactly what medicinewoman instructs readers of her "guide" to do...
Regards,
Topper...
Can you be more specific? What does she advise in her guide?
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Can you be more specific? What does she advise in her guide?
I'm getting this info from a reviewer of her guide who was alarmed at this advice...the review is here...
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/25045a8e31
Third review from the top...fourth paragraph down...
Regards,
Topper...
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Can you be more specific? What does she advise in her guide?
I'm getting this info from a reviewer of her guide who was alarmed at this advice...the review is here...
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/25045a8e31
Third review from the top...fourth paragraph down...
Regards,
Topper...
Okay, but could it be that she's advising accessing a site like Mt Gox or something where logging in via Tor will lock you out of your account?
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Okay, but could it be that she's advising accessing a site like Mt Gox or something where logging in via Tor will lock you out of your account?
I don't think so...I think the site in question is where you go to download her "guide"...since the reviewer specifically says that he... "downloaded the file fine while on Tor..."
Regards,
Topper...
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I think you are paranoid, its all about traffic and advertising
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What exactly do you mean by "traffic and advertising...?"
She has one single item in her SR store....which is free...so how exactly is advertising on the forums going to help...?
I certainly don't think calling people paranoid is helpful...when dealing with a serious issue like security...
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i see what you mean topshelf - something doesn't smell right. why pay for a vendors account to give away free stuff?
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I don't really understand the threat here? Is the link to a random clearnet site or a site that his owned by the vendor? Because even if i was on tor browser and then i went to a link on clearnet in another browser they wouldn't be able to link the two?
The only way i can see this working is if the link was to a site owned by the vendor and upon sending the guide the vendor altered the link so it passed a unique value. So then the vendor could link an IP to a customer because they would know which customer they gave the link with that value too. I cant see any other way this could be done.
If its just the same link in every document the vendor may be able to get all the IP address's that had visited that link but would then struggle to connect these to a specific buyer. Plus as its a clearnet link the site is probably searchable meaning that loads of random people would probably visit the site as well making it even harder. Or someone could just post the link and get everyone to click on it again saturating the list of IP's
With regards to peoples names an address's, This vendor shouldn't have these details as they are providing a digital guide which doesn't require them!
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@Luvs...
The link is when she knows your name...since she asked or it on the order form for the guide...and then she finds out your IP address...since she steers you to a clearnet site to download the guide...AND SPECIFICALLY TELLS YOU NOT TO USE TOR TO ACCESS THE DOWNLOAD SITE...
Now she knows your name...and she knows your physical IP address...and so it is a simple matter for LE to go to your ISP and say give us the records or this guy...evidence being that he ordered an item (her guide) off Silk Road...
Regards,
Topper...
PS: Yes she has no need whatsoever for your name and address...she is purportedly offering you a free download...
FISHY FISHY FISHY...
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The link is when she knows your name...since she asked or it on the order form for the guide...and then she finds out your IP address...since she steers you to a clearnet site to download the guide...AND SPECIFICALLY TELLS YOU NOT TO USE TOR TO ACCESS THE DOWNLOAD SITE...
she actually ASKS for your name before giving you the link??
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@Luvs...
The link is when she knows your name...since she asked or it on the order form for the guide...and then she finds out your IP address...since she steers you to a clearnet site to download the guide...AND SPECIFICALLY TELLS YOU NOT TO USE TOR TO ACCESS THE DOWNLOAD SITE...
She might steer you to a site on clearnet but then when you access it how does she know from the IP alone that your the person that she gave the link to? If its a site on the clearnet it could be anyone accessing that link even someone that may have just stumbled across it. Unless the link was different for every customer and had some kind of unique identifier this just wouldn't work!
Like i say, once given the link it could just be posted in any forum and have it saturated with hits in no time!
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i see what you mean topshelf - something doesn't smell right. why pay for a vendors account to give away free stuff?
I do agree with this tho! It is strange that someone would pay for a vendors accoutn to give away free stuff... just doesn't make any sense when she could just promote her free guides in this forum or even just post the guide in a thread for everyone to see!
Does no one have the link that she gives out?
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she actually ASKS for your name before giving you the link??
Yes...very specifically your name and address as it would appear on a letter...
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/orders/cart
@ Luvs...again...once she has your name and address and your IP address...LE can go to your ISP and request all records for that name...
It doesn't matter that a lot of different IP addresses were accessing that download site that she is running...it is a simple matter to cross check your IP address physical location to your actual mailing address...bingo...
Regards,
Topper.
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I would be careful calling a vendor law enforcement until more facts that would support that came out. You do not want to be responsible for ruining someones reputation because you jumped the gun. Who knows, maybe she is making vendors guides to sell and was going to supply the buyers guides for free?
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or it could be for blackmail purposes or it could be there's some kind of malware on her site or she's looking to hack you later.. there could be a myriad of reasons.
Has anyone actually asked her? I know this might seem strange but there may be a perfectly good reason.
Yes...I put these same questions to her on her own thread promoting her "guide..."...she has not replied...because there can be no logical explanation for what she is doing...except that she is running a LE operation...
Look at it this way...let's say I am a newbie here and the first thing I need to do in order to buy drugs...is to get some bitcoins ffirst...
Well this is a clever way in for LE...they set up a vendor account where the only thing they "sell" is a FREE guide to getting bitcoins...
only problem is...when you click on this vendor store to "download" the guide...she asks for your name and address exactly as it appears on a letter...
Why...?...in fact why even open a vendor account and put up $500 bond, just so you can give away a free guide...?
Okay...let's say you are that gullible newb and you take the bait...you fill in your name and address and she sends you a link to a clearnet website where you can download her guide...and she EXPRESSLY TELLS YOU NOT TO USE TOR TO ACCESS THIS SITE....even though you can access the site and download the guide using tor just fine...
Big Question...?...why does she insist you not use tor to download her guide...?...
Obvious answer...so she can get your real physical IP address...
Now she has your actual name and address...PLUS your IP address...Law enforcement can now go to your ISP and say give us the records for all the internet activity of this person...
Or...they don't have to do that...it can be part of a much bigger game...where they snag the names and matching real IP addresses of dozens of Silk Road Users...eventually they have hundreds of names of SR users plus their IP addresses...which means they also know their ISPS...
They can do a number of things at this point...they can put each of those names under surveillance at the post office...(since each of those newbies was trying to get bitcoins so he/she could buy drugs)...its a safe bet that some ways down the road they will be getting drugs through the post office from SR vendors...
LE just sit and wait and add more and more names...until they make a big operation and intercept dozens of SR packages in one fell swoop...
At that point it gets interesting...some of those arrested will be offered deals to turn informers and feed their LE handlers SR info on a regular basis...
That is how these things work...anyone who things this Medicinewoman is legit should have their head examined...
Regards,
Topper...
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I think Medicinewoman smells kinda ......fishy.......myself ;D
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@ Luvs...again...once she has your name and address and your IP address...LE can go to your ISP and request all records for that name...
Again.. I don't think you realize how hard it would be to connect the hit on the website to the customer she gave the link too! They could cross reference address's with ISP's assuming the customer used their real name and address which in this instance, as there is no actual delivery i cant see why any one would. But even then its not an easy process and i can assure you this from experience with 4 years working for a major ISP
I think the possibility of some kind cyber crime to be more likely! This would explain why it had to be through clearnet because it could be an attack that utilizes the methods that the tor browser disables!
or..... She could just be a nice person who paid to hand out free guides or like some one else has also said the free guides could just be a beginning for this vendor whilst she sets up propper shop!
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Llama...I don't understand your logic...
Yes buying bitcoins is not illegal...but buying drugs is...
There are Senators standing up in Congress screaming red-faced and veins bulging that Silk Road has to be shut down...
Do you think law enforcement is just going to sit still while the pressure from above builds and builds...they want to shut this place down...that is a huge priority...
When I see someone like this Medicinewoman taking out a $500 vendor account to give away a free guide...which she could easily post permanently here on the site...I have to ask why...?...what logical explanation could there be...?
When that same vendor then asks for your name and mailing address...just so she can give you a url...I also have to ask why...? ...what possible reason could there be...?
And then strike three...that same vendor asks you not to use Tor to access the download site...?...what the heck...I'm sorry but if any one of these three strikes makes any sense I am willing to listen...but three strikes and you're outta here...
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why would LE even waste their time chasing newbie bitcoin buyers so they can seize a couple of grams on their first purchase? That doesn't make any sense! If you know LE then you know other than the street cops they aint interested in the small fish! They will be looking for ways to get vendors not some guy who doesn't even know how to buy a bitcoin yet!!
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Luvs...once again I don't follow your logic...
Sure some of the more cautious among us will not give out our real name and address...just to get a link to a free bitcoin guide...but some will...statistically proven...
And then what...here is where I don't follow you...she has snagged a few dozen takers so far...so these are folks who have gone to her SR store...given a name and address (maybe real maybe fake)...and then gone on to her url and downloaded her guide...
Again some of these may have used their better judgement and ignored her instructions to not use tor...but that still leaves several hapless individuals who have probably given their real names and addresses...and who have used clearnet to access her site...now how many IP addresses does she have...a few legit ones at most...
how hard is it to match these up to the legit names...and addresses...remember she has your address...i your IP is geographically close to your address its a match...
I don't see how this is so hard...
Some people are using the word paranoia...but they seem to forget that we have a war on drugs that has over 1 million goons in uniform and spends who knows who many billion dollars a year...
The drug war uses a two-prong strategy...going after both users and sellers...if LE is having a hard time cracking into Silk Road...don't you think they are going to try to go after buyers...?
What better way tan to target newbies...?...
Asking for name and address...?...puhleeze...for a url to download a guide...? ...puhleeze...telling you not to use tor when downloading the guide...?...puhleeze...
This is a LE operation no question....can anyone be so naive that there are not right at this very moment several dozen LEOs logged into this site...
Quite honestly I have to think the ones that are defending this quite transparent scam are suspect themselves...
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Where do you guys get the idea that LE doesn't go after the small fry...?
Get caught with a 40 rock in your pocket and you're going to jail for a good long time...
Like I said...they are probably not making much headway cracking the SR technology and getting a way into the inner circle...
Logically then they need to nibble at the edges...
Once they have a buyer's real name...and your real IP address...they don't have to have the drug dog at the post office every day...they get a simple legal order for your ISP to intercept all your internet communications....everytime you log on tor...they know it...there;'s a good chance you have made a buy...and they can have that mail set aside for a few days or weeks...
They come in one morning with the dog and check all that stacked up mail...bingo...
Once they have the goods they also have a lead on the seller...they know his postal code...they are chipping away...
but the real point of a program like this could be months in the making...they want to assemble a database of SR buyers and their real names...addresses...and IPs...
Then they go in on one fell swoop and bust several dozen SR buyers...hundreds maybe...maybe enough to disrupt the operation...can't have sellers without buyers...
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It doesn't ask for an address and I can't really fault any of her logic. I find it interesting that she has spent the money on a vendor account that doesn't generate any money and that instead of the download, she could actually just email it to a tor email address (which people should have just in case anyway.
and according to feedback left earlier today, you can access it though tor so there's no real issue.
And I think you are in cahoots with her...
here is her checkout link...
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/orders/cart
Notice that it says..."Please enter your name and address
as it would be written on a letter:"
And yes her download link is available through Tor...but she EXPLICITLY instructs the customer not to use tor...
You don't see an issue...?
Well if you can defy logic like that then I suppose there is no issue...you are simply in cahoots with her...
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Has anyone ever purchase digital goods from SR before. I have had a multitude of download links and different methods of delivery. All of them have been similar to what this vendor is doing. Except that she is asking for name and address. And that was not even on the listing page? Only on her profile?
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Look Llama...
I know the address and name is obviously required when the vendor is actually SENDING you something in the mail...but why does she choose this method when all she is sending you is an email with a url...?
It makes no sense...
Also why is she instructing people to download her guide outside of tor...?
Again there is no logical explanation...?
And the kicker...why does she put up a $500 bond in order to give away free text material that can be posted on the site free of charge...
If she wants to solicit donations...she can set up a donation jar like others...
I certainly have not changed my suspicions about the way this person is operating...
I also certainly am quite sure that there are plenty of LE people right here participating in these forums...yourself perhaps...?
I am not concerned in the least about the reputation of a person whos actions are very suspicious to say the least...
I am more concerned about those unsuspecting newbies who are going to end up on a police database with their name...address...and IP...and perhaps a legal order for their ISP to set up a VPN to channel all their communications directly to LE...
And one last question...?...why exactly are you so concerned and sympathetic to a person that you supposedly do not know...and whose product you supposedly do not know...?
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Where did you learn your debating manners...a barnyard...?
You think it is okay to insult people and call them names...?...that's called an ad hominem attack and is what the loser of a debate resorts to when he is unable to win with facts and logic...
And speaking of facts and logic...what you just offered is pure bs...the idea that she is planning to at some later date actually sell something is pure supposition...did you perhaps consult your crystal ball on that one...?
opening a vendor account to give away a free url link via email...looks more like a way to collect names and addresses than anything resembling a business plan...
That's the only logical reason...knowing that the way the site is set up...she can harvest those names and addresses without actually selling anything that could not go through email or be posted here on the site...
As for building up a reputation... I have seen several new vendors here in the short while I have been here...and they act logically...they go on the forums and they announce their plan to sell such and such and they offer lots of free samples to qualified reviewers who already buy those products...that's how this is done...
And your explanation...maybe she is telling people not to use tor to access her download site because the poor soul mistakenly thinks it might not work...oh dear...I could stoop to some pretty creative insults here too...but that's not my game...
Vendors have the responsibility to conduct business in a safe manner...there are tons of resources here and saying "I didn't know" is not a valid excuse when it comes to doing business in an unsafe way this place...
Funny how you don't deny being law enforcement...also worth noting that if an LE agent wanted to vend here...they would have to give stuff away or free...since selling on an illegal site is against the law...
Now wonder the call you the LAME Llama...
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The RC community wouldn't let this slide, we should get right to the bottom of this quickly
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... :o
I have accessed clearnet sights with Tor... It's a good thing that I have never bought anything on SR... not yet. But the link was from another forum user and it was a legit Forbs site (He was telling me about the story of the cocaine in red bull cola.
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Medicinewoman...
you say you want to make the road a little smoother or newbies...but you;re a newbie yourself...so what is your qualification...?
you are going to put out a guide for vendors...?...well that's rich...how to make money by giving stuff away for free...
Sorry...I don't buy any of it...
I looked through all the digital items category and there is only one other person giving away something for free...a hacking book...
Again I have to be suspicious...why invest $500 in a vendor account to give away something with no price tag attached...?
Of course Law Enforcement who try to infiltrate as vendors here are not allowed to sell drugs...or anything else for that matter...since this is an illegal market...
So having 2 people out of thousands who are vendors here who give away stuff for free...while at the same time collecting information on customers...well...that could be the only logical reason for investing the $500...
There is tons of great informational resources on here...from bitcoin...to becoming a vendor...and lots of great people to help...including some very astute moderators...
There is no need for newbie to this site to now say she is going to instruct people on how to conduct business here...it beggars belief...
There is an ulterior motive here and that is collecting information on SR customers...that's all LE can do at this time...chip away at the corners...but if you do it enough...you could bring the whole house down...
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As MedicineWoman has already pointed out, there's no way to edit anything in the SR ordering process as far as the vendor is concerned. She specifically states on her listing (and yes, this was there even before this thread and its accusations were levied):
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I DO NOT NEED OR WANT YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION WHEN ORDERING!
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The Road doesn't allow me to omit the "Shipping Address" box when customers place orders. So, simply insert a random string in that box. Do NOT give me your address, as this item is a digital download. And I sure don't need or want your email address.
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As MedicineWoman has already pointed out, there's no way to edit anything in the SR ordering process as far as the vendor is concerned. She specifically states on her listing (and yes, this was there even before this thread and its accusations were levied):
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I DO NOT NEED OR WANT YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION WHEN ORDERING!
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The Road doesn't allow me to omit the "Shipping Address" box when customers place orders. So, simply insert a random string in that box. Do NOT give me your address, as this item is a digital download. And I sure don't need or want your email address.
In that case...I stand corrected...on that particular point...
however Medicinewoman herself states that buyers still provide that info...although she "ignores" it...
I am still waiting to hear a good explanation as to why someone would spend $500 to open a vendor account...and then charge nothing for their product...
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or it could be for blackmail purposes or it could be there's some kind of malware on her site or she's looking to hack you later.. there could be a myriad of reasons.
Has anyone actually asked her? I know this might seem strange but there may be a perfectly good reason.
I don't feel comfortable down loading anything YET. Perhaps others should feel the same way? idk ijs
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however Medicinewoman herself states that buyers still provide that info...although she "ignores" it...
to be fair though, vendors can't force people to read their listing description, and also can't force people to be smart. some buyers don't read anything and then don't think, and end up putting their info. i've heard of buyers providing their name, address, email, and PHONE NUMBER to vendors, unencrypted, for digital items! so ... i don't think we can blame any vendor for what info they end up receiving from buyers who don't know better.
also, i appreciate that you're trying to warn people to help keep them safe. that's noble. but just because we are on the "darknet" doesn't mean that the marketplace is devoid of selflessness. my best guess is that she's providing the info for free for the benefit of the marketplace. plus, she mentions that people who are interested in a guide about obtaining bitcoins are probably not going to have bitcoins already ... so it might technically be pretty difficult for her to actually sell the guide.
even as a moderator, i've received PMs with people sending their info for whatever reason.
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Llama...I don't understand your logic...
Yes buying bitcoins is not illegal...but buying drugs is...
There are Senators standing up in Congress screaming red-faced and veins bulging that Silk Road has to be shut down...
Do you think law enforcement is just going to sit still while the pressure from above builds and builds...they want to shut this place down...that is a huge priority...
When I see someone like this Medicinewoman taking out a $500 vendor account to give away a free guide...which she could easily post permanently here on the site...I have to ask why...?...what logical explanation could there be...?
When that same vendor then asks for your name and mailing address...just so she can give you a url...I also have to ask why...? ...what possible reason could there be...?
And then strike three...that same vendor asks you not to use Tor to access the download site...?...what the heck...I'm sorry but if any one of these three strikes makes any sense I am willing to listen...but three strikes and you're outta here...
Could you tell me what strikes one and two where? I can't find them in this? :-*
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I've read through the guide and it seems fine to me... It didn't throw any red flags in my mind, and the PDF seems clean on my system.
I'm still new to all this, but SR asks for Name and Address for every purchase right? Just put in "Thank You" or something similar. It was a little odd that I was asked to download on clearnet, but it downloaded fine through Tor, but I always keep my connection private and secure even while browsing clearnet for other reasons.
Even if this was some elaborate LE operation, there would be no way to prove anything... So you downloaded a .pdf document on how to securely buy BTC, who cares? There would be no way to link it to your account on SR, or see other purchases on your account, or get your mailing address provided you didn't supply it.
I just figured it was a new vendor on the road trying to build up their stats before they went on to sell some items.
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I just figured it was a new vendor on the road trying to build up their stats before they went on to sell some items.
Yep, this is my understanding of what MedicineWoman was doing.
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Maybe, and this is for you topself0, this is an established person here that has already made so much money from being at the top they want to give something back to the community and 500 dollars and their time is just a drop in the Ocean to them. I know kind people like this who don't have to be rich to do something helpful, but obviously in your World there are none, this is as sad as your inability to accept the count less people that have explained over and over again all the possible reasons things looked the way they do. Please calm yourself before impulsion into a world of permanent paranoid delusions (ppd).
Or, you just got a hell of a good batch of ice in which case tell me where so I can get some. hehehe :-)
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Llama...I don't understand your logic...
Yes buying bitcoins is not illegal...but buying drugs is...
There are Senators standing up in Congress screaming red-faced and veins bulging that Silk Road has to be shut down...
Do you think law enforcement is just going to sit still while the pressure from above builds and builds...they want to shut this place down...that is a huge priority...
When I see someone like this Medicinewoman taking out a $500 vendor account to give away a free guide...which she could easily post permanently here on the site...I have to ask why...?...what logical explanation could there be...?
When that same vendor then asks for your name and mailing address...just so she can give you a url...I also have to ask why...? ...what possible reason could there be...?
And then strike three...that same vendor asks you not to use Tor to access the download site...?...what the heck...I'm sorry but if any one of these three strikes makes any sense I am willing to listen...but three strikes and you're outta here...
Could you tell me what strikes one and two where? I can't find them in this? :-*
Gizzelda...strike one for me was putting up a sizable vendor bond...just to give away some kind of guide for free...now sure I believe in selflessness...but the truth is there is plenty little of that in this world...probably about as rare as hen's teeth...
Someone else mentioned that she's probably just easing in slow and will start selling real products in due time...fair enough...we'll see if that actually comes to pass....
Asking for a name and mailing address was strike two...although this has been clarified that the checkout cart system is set up that way...and that the smart thing to do is to just enter any kind of useless words in there...
however...some people still do take this literally and fill in their real name and address...and Medicinewoman has said so herself...although she says she ignores it...so let's call this one a ball rather than a strike...
Then strike three was that she set buyers to a clearnet site and specifically instructed them not to use tor to download the pdf guide...she says she has now rectified that and instructs buyers to go through tor...
So maybe my kvetching here has at least done a little good...
Regards,
Topper..
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Llama...I don't understand your logic...
Yes buying bitcoins is not illegal...but buying drugs is...
There are Senators standing up in Congress screaming red-faced and veins bulging that Silk Road has to be shut down...
Do you think law enforcement is just going to sit still while the pressure from above builds and builds...they want to shut this place down...that is a huge priority...
When I see someone like this Medicinewoman taking out a $500 vendor account to give away a free guide...which she could easily post permanently here on the site...I have to ask why...?...what logical explanation could there be...?
When that same vendor then asks for your name and mailing address...just so she can give you a url...I also have to ask why...? ...what possible reason could there be...?
And then strike three...that same vendor asks you not to use Tor to access the download site...?...what the heck...I'm sorry but if any one of these three strikes makes any sense I am willing to listen...but three strikes and you're outta here...
Could you tell me what strikes one and two where? I can't find them in this? :-*
Gizzelda...strike one for me was putting up a sizable vendor bond...just to give away some kind of guide for free...now sure I believe in selflessness...but the truth is there is plenty little of that in this world...probably about as rare as hen's teeth...
Someone else mentioned that she's probably just easing in slow and will start selling real products in due time...fair enough...we'll see if that actually comes to pass....
Asking for a name and mailing address was strike two...although this has been clarified that the checkout cart system is set up that way...and that the smart thing to do is to just enter any kind of useless words in there...
however...some people still do take this literally and fill in their real name and address...and Medicinewoman has said so herself...although she says she ignores it...so let's call this one a ball rather than a strike...
Then strike three was that she set buyers to a clearnet site and specifically instructed them not to use tor to download the pdf guide...she says she has now rectified that and instructs buyers to go through tor...
So maybe my kvetching here has at least done a little good...
Regards,
Topper..
Sounds like you just can't fix stupid! ???
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Maybe, and this is for you topself0, this is an established person here that has already made so much money from being at the top they want to give something back to the community and 500 dollars and their time is just a drop in the Ocean to them. I know kind people like this who don't have to be rich to do something helpful, but obviously in your World there are none, this is as sad as your inability to accept the count less people that have explained over and over again all the possible reasons things looked the way they do. Please calm yourself before impulsion into a world of permanent paranoid delusions (ppd).
Or, you just got a hell of a good batch of ice in which case tell me where so I can get some. hehehe :-)
Gizzelda...this Medicinewoman still qualifies as a Newbie here...not even a Junior Member...so how could she be an "established person" who has made lots of money here and wants to give something back...?...
I have been raising questions because I am concerned for the security of this operation...I have my own reasons...I have ready access to top-notch name brand prescription drugs and intend to open a vendor store here in the next few days...and I would like this place to stay in business...at least long enough for me to make my little pile...
Early on in my trip I was guided by a very patient and knowledgeable moderator (of which there is no shortage here) and he told me flat out I was not near ready to start vending...he advised me to spend a few weeks learning about bitcoins...pgp security and many other issues...I have taken that good advice to heart and have spent many many hours preparing...asking questions on forums...etc... so I can be ready to make the leap and set up a vendor operation which I think a lot of people will benefit from...
Then I see this medicinewoman and all her suspicious behavior...for instance...she is a newbie herself but she is expert enough to write how-to guides...she could post this info on the forums where a lot more people can benefit from it...and people could debate and discuss the merits and shortcomings of her info and advice...but she chooses to set up a vendor store...which seems like a totally inappropriate venue for this kind of activity...
She tells people to go off tor to download her paper...supposedly this has now been rectified...
We all need to realize that this place is not bullet proof...there are hugely powerful forces working around the clock to bring this place down...
We all need to stay on guard...neighborhood watch if you will...and when we see something suspicious...let's bring it out in the open and hash it out...no pun intended...
Regards,
Topper
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Topshelf,
Have you ever received digital goods off of SR before. There are quite a few vendors that direct you to clearnet websites to download your item. I mean I have downloaded like 10 different things that way. I do not see what the issue is.
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Topper,
I think you are properly suspicious. This is serious business and suspicious should be the default condition.
If the guides are so good, then why not just post them to this forum. I suppose her argument might be that some folks go to SR but not this forum. Someone interested only in education for the community should post here. Maybe she is raising her stats for a future sales opportunities. That seems to be the only reasonable explanation other than a LE connection.
Are these clearnet URLs serialized? That would be a dead LE giveaway and would make each URL directly traceable to the SR order. If it is just a static URL then why have people place an order just to get it. She explains that the guide changes but you can change the guide without changing the URL. Just put a date or version number on it.
I think you are right to be suspicious.
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Snowflake you should take security more seriously.
However its a clean file, exactly as described.
For the paranoid among you:
1.Get a USB
2.Download a version of Linux live to USB
3.Shutdown computer and boot Linux from Bios
3.Select the temporary OS (live)
4.Open Firefox and Download Tor.
5.Download the PDF through TOR
6.Open Pdf whilst disconnected from the internet.
Its a very helpful review which is free because its for people who don't have bitcoin.
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No body should ever open anything they recieve while on tor not it tor. Just for the safety reasons.
Also as other people said bootable usbs are great as are bootable sd cards
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I just figured it was a new vendor on the road trying to build up their stats before they went on to sell some items.
You're on the money. Building up stats, testing whether folks are interested in downloading well-written information. It's clear they'll buy pot, etc., but I wanted to see if they value the time it takes someone to wade through confusing information and compile it in a simple and easy-to-read manner, informed by a lot of experience, trial and error.
I started with a BTC guide since that's the first and most obvious hurdle on the Road. It's free because I can't charge folks bitcoins for a guide on obtaining bitcoins.
I *can* charge for other services, and will do so in the future, provided I can make a reasonable profit with a minimum of hassle.
I enjoy the idea of earning a living without breaking a single law. But this sure doesn't make me LE. I support this community and am proud to be part of it.
I in no way fault anyone, anytime, for being suspicious. The feedback I received--from folks who downloaded my guide--helped me streamline my process and make it more and more clear. Feedback on the forum is quite a bit harder to track, but I'm doing what I can.
And this, roadsters, is my 50th post!
Peace,
MW
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MW,
Are your clearnet URLs serialized? Do you issue a unique URL for each order?
If so, an investigator with access to your information could tie the IP address to an actual order placed on SR. This is not a crime but might be enough to start an investigation of the activity at that IP.
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TJStrong:
Are your clearnet URLs serialized? Do you issue a unique URL for each order?
Users are now advised to visit my URL's through Tor. The URLs look like
http://www.blah.com/file/o3qrjv
Not serialized.
A unique URL is issued for each *revision* of the guide, not for each person who downloads. I revise the guide when people point out typos or spots that lack clarity. I also revised the guide recently to eliminate using Mt Gox, now that Mt Gox requires I.D. verification on accounts. The guide is now on it's 6th revision.
The URL changes with each revision because this is not just a static URL sitting forever; I'm using a service which gives me a new URL everytime I upload the document.
Peace,
MW
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Thanks for clarifying that.
But link shorteners could also be used in the same way as a serialized URL. The only real test would be to "buy" your guide from multiple accounts and see if the shortened URLs are indeed the same for all "purchasers".
The real problem I see that I think Topper saw too was that your methods are fraught with risk but aimed at noobs who wouldn't be able to assess or even be aware of the risk. In fact there are users on this thread that don't understand the risk of downloading in the clearnet.
The sad fact is that you can't prove you are not LE. It's hard to prove a negative. But you could allay all suspicions by selling drugs. Ironic, eh.
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TJStrong
In fact there are users on this thread that don't understand the risk of downloading in the clearnet.
I was definitely at fault when I first published my Bitcoin Guide. I thought since the guide contains nothing illegal, there's no reason to call attention to it by accessing it via Tor, so I advised downloading the guide via the Clearnet. I see this point debated endlessly in the forums, by the way, but still, I should know better, because I've been on the Road since 2010.
The error was certainly mine, and has been corrected.
I agree that all buyers need to be aware of the high risks involved when traveling this road. And I agree with your ironic assessment: I cannot prove a negative. I can ironically only become legit on this site by breaking the law! Being a good citizen, by offering free and helpful material, has only aroused suspicion.
Hopefully, the newbs who have been helped out by my guide will say more in their feedback about how it helped them, and my original mission of helping folks along a rocky path will be fulfilled. In the meantime, caution is the word, and I've really appreciated the dialog and feedback.
Peace,
MW
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TJ...you make some good technical points about which I was not aware....not being a computer guy so to speak...
I think you also made a good point about medicinewoman laying all suspicions to rest by selling drugs...which would prove she is not LE...
but analyze carefully her answer...she does not want to sell drugs because she is a "good citizen..."...which implies that selling drugs makes you a bad citizen...this is exactly the mindframe of law enforcement...
This is important to note since the prevailing mindframe and culture of this place is libertarian...anarchist... and anti-state...which are legitimate political beliefs...especially in this day and age of the state becoming ever more tyrannical...financial power concentrated in the hands of a tiny few oligarchs etc...
So I would ask Medicinewoman what exactly is a "Good Citizen" like herself doing in a place like this...?...she would be much more at home on facebook...
In fact we must take notice that medicinewoman is not selling anything at all...she is giving away a product and only asking for a donation...this too says "beware law enforcement"...because even selling something legal...on an illegal website is an actual criminal act...and since LE are not allowed to commit criminal acts...they choose to give away the product for free...and can still be a vendor here...and try to dig deeper into the workings of this place...
Yesterday I spent nearly an hour going through all the listings in the digital products category...and found only one other listing that was being given away for free...this was a hacking book and I should have made a note of the url...
I think the moderators should take note of these vendors who charge no price...and think about the possibility that this is in keeping with the rules that law enforcement goes by...
Regards,
Topper...
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In fact we must take notice that medicinewoman is not selling anything at all...she is giving away a product and only asking for a donation...this too says "beware law enforcement"...because even selling something legal...on an illegal website is an actual criminal act...and since LE are not allowed to commit criminal acts...they choose to give away the product for free...and can still be a vendor here...and try to dig deeper into the workings of this place....
In the U.S. I'm not sure that selling a legal product on a site that features mostly illegal products is actually a crime. But it certainly would be a reasonable suspicion for further investigation.
If I were a cop and wanted to use MW's setup to sting someone here is how I would do it. Issue a new and unique link shortener for each person that requests a download. The cops would also need some sort of admin access to the link shortener to collect IPs. That way when they click on the shortened clearnet link, the cops get your IP address. Unless you are using a VPN or proxy, the IP is all they need. Whether the person entered their mailing name and address is irrelevant.
Then the cops go to a judge and say, "We have hard evidence that the individual in this case was using a secret website that primarily sells illegal contraband. They ordered from us a document about how to use the website. We suspect that they are contemplating purchasing drugs and we believe that this constitutes a reasonable suspicion that a crime has or will be committed." The American judge says "Sure! Here's your warrant." In our new reality, they probably wouldn't bother with the warrant and just access the vast NSA database that they maintain on all American and foreign internet activity.
I have no idea whether MW is running this kind of operation but the risk is too great because the surveillance is so simple.
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Gizzelda...this Medicinewoman still qualifies as a Newbie here...not even a Junior Member...so how could she be an "established person" who has made lots of money here and wants to give something back...?...
Regards,
Topper
now I didn't go look up her/his profile on SR, but just because they are a newbie here on the SR forums, doesn't have any bearing on how long they've been a SR member. The Silk Road and the SR Forums are 2 different places.
I'm not sure this whole thing of her/him being LE is making much sense. I would think LE would be after people that are up the ladder a little more then people that need a Bitcoin tutorial. I mean c'mon.... can you see the LE Head Cheese giving approval to try and snare a bunch of newbies that downloaded a tutorial on bitcoins (which are legal)?
In reading thru this thread, it just seems that you have this notion in your mind and it doesn't matter what anyone else says, you are going to believe your story and that's just the way it is. Doesn't seem like you are very open to other people's replies.
Nothing wrong with advising the community when things don't look right. I think everyone would welcome that. But we need to be careful we aren't ruining people's reputation just because we "think" someone might be up to no good. Look at your SUBJECT title.... you basically accuse someone of being a Law Enforcement Scam with no proof whatsoever, just a bunch of "well this is weird" and "why would they do this if they weren't LE"
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I'm not sure this whole thing of her/him being LE is making much sense. I would think LE would be after people that are up the ladder a little more then people that need a Bitcoin tutorial.
That's your opinion...there have been plenty of opinions posted in this thread that think otherwise...
As for LE going after little guys...what exactly do you know about how LE works...? my father spent his career in LE...and they scoop up all kinds of small fry to use them as informants...jailhouse snitches etc...they are the bedrock of the profession...any LE operation to take down a king pin starts with scooping up the small fry first...maybe you should stick to talking about things you know something about...whatever that might be...
@TJ...you make some great technical points...you obviously know how the system works and can see trouble in the way this kind of scheme can be run...
Most of the people here have no idea of even the basics of how vulnerable they are on line...LE can get their hands on just about anything they want from your ISP...without even a warrant...court order or anything like that...
That is why I take objection to people like "Pool Playa" trying to downplay risks...when it is quite clear he knows zilch about the subject...
Regards,
Topper
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In the U.S. I'm not sure that selling a legal product on a site that features mostly illegal products is actually a crime. But it certainly would be a reasonable suspicion for further investigation.
Yes it may or may not be legal for an LE operative to sell legal goods here...I don't know...but it would certainly compromise their case when it went to court...by opening up a defense of entrapment...
btw cops do illegal stuff all the time...including selling drugs...murdering people...extortion...rape...you name it...they just don't leave a trail that can hurt the case...in this case the electronic trail can't be swept under the carpet...
I have no idea whether MW is running this kind of operation but the risk is too great because the surveillance is so simple.
bingo...that's the bottom line...that is why caution is a good policy in this case...
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I'm not sure this whole thing of her/him being LE is making much sense. I would think LE would be after people that are up the ladder a little more then people that need a Bitcoin tutorial.
That's your opinion...there have been plenty of opinions posted in this thread that think otherwise...
As for LE going after little guys...what exactly do you know about how LE works...? my father spent his career in LE...and they scoop up all kinds of small fry to use them as informants...jailhouse snitches etc...they are the bedrock of the profession...any LE operation to take down a king pin starts with scooping up the small fry first...maybe you should stick to talking about things you know something about...whatever that might be...
@TJ...you make some great technical points...you obviously know how the system works and can see trouble in the way this kind of scheme can be run...
Most of the people here have no idea of even the basics of how vulnerable they are on line...LE can get their hands on just about anything they want from your ISP...without even a warrant...court order or anything like that...
That is why I take objection to people like "Pool Playa" trying to downplay risks...when it is quite clear he knows zilch about the subject...
Regards,
Topper
after some deep thought (3-4 seconds in this particular case), I've decided that you not worthy of reasoning with. It's a exercise in futility to try and reason with people such as yourself. You live in your own little world and I have to just accept that I cannot fix STUPID.
You can't even reply with anything that resembles a person reading someone's post, then commenting to their points.
That's a dealbreaker in my book, if the person has no comprehension skills, having a conversation with them is going to be a waste of time. Unless I'm looking to be humored. Busy right now, so I'll have to pass on that one :)
Good luck and do enjoy all the misinformation you've been spewing, it'll come in handy some day, I'm sure ;D
You know what may actually be possible, is that YOU are LE. You're using the old "Accuse a few other people of being LE to try and get people on my side so we can buddy up, then I can gather intelligence on them"
Yeah... I see thru your weak scheme. Nice try DEA
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It doesn't ask for an address and I can't really fault any of her logic. I find it interesting that she has spent the money on a vendor account that doesn't generate any money and that instead of the download, she could actually just email it to a tor email address (which people should have just in case anyway.
and according to feedback left earlier today, you can access it though tor so there's no real issue.
And I think you are in cahoots with her...
here is her checkout link...
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/orders/cart
Notice that it says..."Please enter your name and address
as it would be written on a letter:"
And yes her download link is available through Tor...but she EXPLICITLY instructs the customer not to use tor...
You don't see an issue...?
Well if you can defy logic like that then I suppose there is no issue...you are simply in cahoots with her...
I just had a great laugh.
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Has anyone ever purchase digital goods from SR before. I have had a multitude of download links and different methods of delivery. All of them have been similar to what this vendor is doing. Except that she is asking for name and address. And that was not even on the listing page? Only on her profile?
You can fill anything into that field with the address. Yea I bought multiple files already, just download them over tor and you will be fine.
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Anyone that would do that is stupid.
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I think people should be less paranoid of LE and more paranoid of hackers. LE doesn't get much benefit out of a few IP addresses. Good luck trying to get a search warrant because someone visited your website. The bigger fear is hackers. Someone gets a worm into your computer, nabs passwords to your BTC accounts and empties them out. They make off with hundres-thousands-hundreds of thousands and there's nothing you can do about it. LE wants to shut down venders, hackers want to wrangle in sucker buyers.
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@topshelf.. I'm not surprised you don't understand my logic because i would be surprised if you understand anything at all! I didn't respond earlier because i realized quite quickly that your a moron and stupidity cannot be argued with! But now i just want you to ask how you can carry on saying what you are now you have finally come to terms with the fact that MW never asked for any personal info? This completely blows all you theory out the window and just leaves 'LE' with a long list of random IP address's that could or could not be from SR users! Your 3 strikes have become 2 strikes meaning that MW is still in the clear! lol
You live in a delusional world filled with paranoia!
I would suggest you maybe stay away from drugs as they are only going to make you paranoia worse and soon you will be accusing your neighbors cat of performing surveillance on your house and patting down your postman to make sure he is not wearing a wire!!
If I were a cop and wanted to use MW's setup to sting someone here is how I would do it. Issue a new and unique link shortener for each person that requests a download. The cops would also need some sort of admin access to the link shortener to collect IPs. That way when they click on the shortened clearnet link, the cops get your IP address. Unless you are using a VPN or proxy, the IP is all they need. Whether the person entered their mailing name and address is irrelevant.
I tried to explain this quite near the start of this thread but the OP was having none of it because i was opposed to his theory and that's how he works no matter what anyone says, if they are opposed to his views, they are wrong!
But as far as I'm aware the link that is provided to everyone is the same which would make it very hard to link IP address's to the SR account used to obtain the guide!
Where do you guys get the idea that LE doesn't go after the small fry...?
Get caught with a 40 rock in your pocket and you're going to jail for a good long time...
Your quite right LE does care about small fry but it has people that deal with that side of things, patrol/street cops that rely on stupidity and random events to catch small time crooks and drug users. But do you really think when it comes to the kind of people that are looking at SR that they want to catch all these people buying grams just to see them replaced by new people buying grams... simple answer is no they dont! They are trying to catch vendors..... don't confuse the cops that will arrest you for a 20 bag with the cops that are looking at SR... they will be very different people in different leagues!
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This thread is friggen hilarious!!! I started reading it and I thought wow this Topshelf guy is out to lunch LOLOLOL he is super paranoid and is convinced the CIA is tapping his phones and watching him through his tv. HAHA . I could only read like 1 or 2 pages and then I said fuck me 5 pages!! there is no way this moron still thinks she is LE after 5 pages, no way cant be. I almost fell off my chair sure enough this guy is still convinced.
There is so much bulk dealing going on here by big time dealers to even think for one second that LE would spend all that time and resources on newbies that dont even know what a bitcoin is and havent even made a purchase yet and might not even go thru with it is Fuckin ludicrous!!!!!
you either have no common sense or just stupid stubborn and would never admit you put you foot in your mouth before thinking. (to do this IRL is understandable we all do it but you gotta be a real idiot to do this online on a forum where you can edit and retract your statement or at least have time to think of a good comeback or excuse for the screwup)
sorry for the harshness I dont know why Im being so harsh, maybee its cause I just got off night shift and getting irritated that I couldnt figure out if this was a joke or not.
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I don't know about this particular vendor, but I was just wondering after I made a non-drug purchase the other day what would stop LE from selling legal items and just keeping the shipping info. Names, addresses and the whole 9?
I don't think I'm going to buy anything other than the stuff you can't get anywhere else on here anymore.
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hmmm
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@topshelf... I think you should edit your OP as it could be damaging to MedicineWomen's reputation on here as a lot of people wont read the whole thread and may take you accusations seriously and I think there has been enough things said that prove your not correct!
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===================================================================================================
METHOD 2. MONEYPAK STEPS IN DETAIL
===================================================================================================
A. GET A HOTMAIL OR OTHER ANONYMOUS EMAIL ACCOUNT
Hotmail is nice because you do not have to give them an existing email account in order to sign up:
http://www.hotmail.com
======
B. DETERMINE YOUR UNIQUE BITCOIN ADDRESS ON THE ROAD
======
1. Click the account link on the top
2. Click the link that says Click here to make a deposit
3. Your bitcoin address will be displayed; it’s a random string
Copy the bitcoin address (Control-C on Windows; Command-C on Mac):
======
C. GET A ZIPZAP MONEYGRAM FROM BitInstant
======
IMPORTANT:
ZipZap charges $3.95 for MoneyGrams.
BitInstant has a maximum limit on transfers of $500.
$500 - $3.95 = $496.05
1. Visit www.bitinstant.com
MoneyPaks are reload cards. They have nothing to do with BitInstant.
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MoneyPaks are reload cards. They have nothing to do with BitInstant.
Typo corrected.
Also, I appreciate the feedback, but request that if you find problems with my wording or procedures, PM me please. I'm far more likely to find your comment in my Inbox than as a reply on the forum. That's exactly why I wrote the procedure up; these BTC "how-to's" are strewn all over the forums, and are often outdated or inaccurate.
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Ya im with paranoid camp.
A vendor account is expensive !!.....very..
If you just want to love and help and give free info...why not just put the link in the fucking forums for everyone to get for free ?.....
Only reason you spend 4BTC to give away freebies in the manner she is, is to collect info.....END OF
So all you newbies hitting up the paranoid guy. chill. Although it seems her PDF is harmless etc and it would appear from feedback she/he is just not so security wise. His logic and indeed suspicion is not without massive justification.
I stand by my own logic. If you want to give way for helpfulness then just post a link to anon DL in forums....simples.....
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Ya im with paranoid camp.
A vendor account is expensive !!.....very..
If you just want to love and help and give free info...why not just put the link in the fucking forums for everyone to get for free ?.....
Only reason you spend 4BTC to give away freebies in the manner she is, is to collect info.....END OF
Have you read the whole thread? Just curious as to what info you think she is collecting? She actually states on her vendor page (and always has) that she does not require your name or address so its not that!
So all you newbies hitting up the paranoid guy. chill. Although it seems her PDF is harmless etc and it would appear from feedback she/he is just not so security wise. His logic and indeed suspicion is not without massive justification.
I stand by my own logic. If you want to give way for helpfulness then just post a link to anon DL in forums....simples.....
Again this has been discussed and the reason she is doing what she is doing is to build up stats, feedback and reputation for when she decides to do more on the road! Plus as someone has mentioned already she will get the money back when she gets 300 transactions!
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I've only read the beginning and end of this thread--will go back to read the middle--but her methods don't seem to be the cheapest anyway.
Does anybody have alternative options for anonymously converting BTC to cash besides selling it on SR or localbitcoins?
Also, as far as buying BTC, how does using non-anonymous methods (Coinbase, Dwolla through BitInstant) and sending through a mixer compare? A lot of people suggest buying through BlueSkyTraders or similar vendors, but doesn't that still have a trackability issue? Say, if BlueSkyTraders get investigated for laundering, their BTC can be traced back to me, etc.
I hope this is clear-ish, I just haven't been able to find answers in others posts.
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TJStrong
In fact there are users on this thread that don't understand the risk of downloading in the clearnet.
I was definitely at fault when I first published my Bitcoin Guide. I thought since the guide contains nothing illegal, there's no reason to call attention to it by accessing it via Tor, so I advised downloading the guide via the Clearnet. I see this point debated endlessly in the forums, by the way, but still, I should know better, because I've been on the Road since 2010.
Topless, this is the point of established, "...since 2010..." told ya. hehe :)
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Topless, this is the point of established, "...since 2010..." told ya. hehe :)
Actually, I didn't get on the road til end of 2011 -- typo in previous post. If only I had bought BTC's then!
Peace,
MW
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Again this has been discussed and the reason she is doing what she is doing is to build up stats, feedback and reputation for when she decides to do more on the road! Plus as someone has mentioned already she will get the money back when she gets 300 transactions!
Yeah, but, that's just what someone suggested she might be doing. Then she comes in and says, "yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing!"
How often has a vendor done that? Sure, it's clever. I just don't know.
You fucking ought to stay the hell away from things you know nothing about.
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Ok made it through all pages. Here is my .00000000002 bitcoins on the topic. Topshelf has valid points and I think your better off being paranoid than naive about the lengths LE will go to infiltrate the road. I feel he is free to post his opinion but should word it better like "possible" or "Beware" of LE phishing? I can see alot of haters or vendors trying to soil a competitors reputation. I can tell you that too many roadsters give up way to much information that is not needed in these forums. I like the point he made about them nibbling on the edges to get to the chore. LE are not that smart and almost every bust they get comes from the weak, CI's, snitches. The other 1% comes from sure luck. I say do your own homework and scour the forum for your answers. I've been here since Jan. and have built my posts the good ole fashion way. I think that if this guide was so good it would get stickied! All I know is that I'm not going to get busted. Now I am knocking on wood. knock knock.....
GP
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def sounds like some narco swine to me. I notice the listing is now 5.00 i thought it was free..
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The information is free, as plaintext right in the listing itself. The $5.00 is an optional donation.