Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: tit4tat007 on May 22, 2013, 06:13 pm
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So there was a thread from a vendor asking about how to sell BTC safely; I gave my two cents which is basically is that I have been a long time miner of bitcoins (Use an avalon to mine BTC) and I have been selling them on localbitcoins.com
I got a PM from a user asking me if I was in Toronto...silly me I gave him my localbitcoins username because I do not have anything to hide. I mean I order pot once or twice a year but that's about it. SR is my choice because..well...I get it for free =D and plus I don't really know any drug dealers and stuff so it would be a mission to find and risk it being shitty dirty weed and I'd be too scared to say anything about it.
Soooo yea anyways 4 days or so after receiving this PM two RCMP officers show up at my door. My brother let them in because, besides being a goody two shoe, I could convince him my pot was herbal tea if he ever found it. They said there is evidence I am doing illicit activity, and despite showing them my bitcoin operation they still wanted to take a look around.
Now I buy pot off SR very rarely (1-2 times a year). I use a USB drive to run Tor and it is kept away from home. Additionally there is no drugs in my home, paraphanelia, nor do my occasional orders come here.
The cops searched the house, quite thoroughly, but if stories of raids are true it was nothing to that extent. They asked if I would consent to drug dogs search, I said sure but they would have to do a clean up after to make sure any mess was cleaned up. They said they would get back to me.
Now I realize I was stupid to give this guy my LBC username, but I mean this is besides the fact. Vendors who are selling bitcoins ANYWHERE need to be EXTREMELY careful. If I was an SR vendor or involved in anything illegal I would be typing this message from a prison cell!
It is possible that localbitcoins is releasing information to law enforcement, be EXTREMELY cautious if you are selling your BTC on here. I don't know how most vendors on here are cashing out there BTC, and honestly if I wasn't a legit miner I would be scared shitless right now.
Given most of the stories on here (people bookmarking URL, PW on computers, no encryption, no Tails, etc) I would not be surprised if vendors on here are just selling their BTC thinking that it is all okay.
PLEASE BECAREFUL SELLING YOUR BTC --> I strongly think that this is the LE new way to catch vendors. They focus on sellers of BTC.
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Your story invokes my spidey sense, wait oops wrong hero.
Seriously though, this makes little sense to me. It doesn't seem to follow anything I would expect but you are in Canada so okay.
Did the pm you got have a link or anything? Well now that I think about 4 days is a bit quick for LE to find someone through and IP. So maybe it was localbitcoins.
If it really was localbitcoins then that is scary. I think being part of being anonymous isn't just using tor but making sure that if someone wanted to, they couldn't find you. I would never use my real address anywhere, use whatever you can but the address where your physically staying or keeping bad things, yeah I never put that anywhere online let alone anywhere with my name.
It seems like you gotta be extra careful now good thing you only get like 1 or 2 a year, I doubt they would care enough to pursue.
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So you believe that an undercover LEO messaged you on the SR forums to ask you if you were in Toronto, then you proceeded to give them your SR username for no reason? Something isn't quite making sense to me, how would any LEO know even remotely where you were located unless you had said so previously on the forums? And how would they have traced an SR username to your house?
Unless of course you told a stranger on the SR forums or on SR itself your address so they could swing on by and buy some BTC in which case I would say; well, what did you expect?
Even after this I'm still confused. Also, why would a LEO ask you for permission to drug dog search your house and then LEAVE giving you plenty of time to get rid of whatever it is you maybe had?
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I'm quite confused by the story as well.
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Many sellers on localbitcoins are probably LE. One of them owns this company:
CLEARNET
www.inspiringforensics.co.uk/
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I remember this guys post - about his mining with avalon. It was a week or so ago... Its legit.
So, you're saying from that post, LE managed to figure out who you were on localbitcoins.com, approached localbitcoins for some information about you - and raid you?
Is it possible that LE figured out who you were by doing a transaction with you on localbitcoins.com themselves. If you're legit, you could be using a legit bank account right?
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Why would LE care though? Buying / selling btc is legal, and the OP stated that he doesn't vend here, nor does he buy drugs except for 1-2 times a year. So what made LE so interested in him?
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The localbitcoin LE connection could help explain why so many accounts never respond to buy or sell offers I put in, but everyone I've met on localbitcoins no where near resembles LE unless I'm very naive.
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I think the real question here is how the fuck did you get your hands on an Avalon and how much are you selling it for?
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Why would LE care though? Buying / selling btc is legal, and the OP stated that he doesn't vend here, nor does he buy drugs except for 1-2 times a year. So what made LE so interested in him?
Yeah, this is definitely a good question. I'm wondering the same Scout - I was just chipping in to let everyone know the previous post the guy has cited as the suspected reason for this, was real.
Theres two explanations here that I can see... maybe both simultaniously
One would be that that particular post wasn't linked to the raid, and that it was more to do with something else this guy could have posted to reveal himself. If he is regularly selling bitcoins then I guess LE would be interested. (Although that particular thread im sure would be been interesting to LEOs all over the place I bet). If the guy had nothing to hide then maybe he wasnt so careful with what he published around here, or anywhere?
Another would be that LE saw an easy target, because of his openness, and are either so ignorant, or getting so desperate, that they thought this guy was worth making an example of in some way.
Not that I believe everything I read on here - but this is more plausible than some of the stories I see.
I think the real question here is how the fuck did you get your hands on an Avalon and how much are you selling it for?
haha. true that. +1 for the mood lightening! 8)
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Why would LE care though? Buying / selling btc is legal, and the OP stated that he doesn't vend here, nor does he buy drugs except for 1-2 times a year. So what made LE so interested in him?
Yeah, this is definitely a good question. I'm wondering the same Scout - I was just chipping in to let everyone know the previous post the guy has cited as the suspected reason for this, was real.
Theres two explanations here that I can see... maybe both simultaniously
One would be that that particular post wasn't linked to the raid, and that it was more to do with something else this guy could have posted to reveal himself. If he is regularly selling bitcoins then I guess LE would be interested. (Although that particular thread im sure would be been interesting to LEOs all over the place I bet). If the guy had nothing to hide then maybe he wasnt so careful with what he published around here, or anywhere?
Another would be that LE saw an easy target, because of his openness, and are either so ignorant, or getting so desperate, that they thought this guy was worth making an example of in some way.
Not that I believe everything I read on here - but this is more plausible than some of the stories I see.
I think the real question here is how the fuck did you get your hands on an Avalon and how much are you selling it for?
haha. true that. +1 for the mood lightening! 8)
Sorry I was not more clear --> it was my LOCALBITCOINS username that I revealed. My SR username is totally different. I know it was dumb but I figured, hey, more customers the better. I regretted it right away but it was too late. Then I thought what ever what do I have to fear.
I am the largest seller of bitcoins in my area, with over 500 transactions. There is about an average of $400 in sales a day at times, and anything I mine is almost sold instantaneously as I am one of the only sellers on there who sell at current weighted average.
I assume this is what happened...They saw my high bitcoin sales and purchased off me. After obtaining my phone number or email they were able to track my residence. Obviously not enough for warrant they decided to pay a visit, hoping to turn up a drug operation.
I just find it kind of strange that this happens so close to the PM I received inquiring about my bitcoins. But it could be just a coincidence..but in my profession coincidences don't exist in our vocabulary
Personally the way they were talking they were just trying to gauge and see if I had some drug affiliation at all. I mean they did not take my PC, they did not cut open couches and stuff like that. It seemed more like they were grasping at straws since they had the info of some guy who sells a shitload of BTC. I have since removed my LBC listing, not sure if I will continue to sell there or not.
While I am not a police officer, my profession does involve relating with them, and it is possible this is why they were friendly about everything. Personally I do not expect them to come back, and I more wanted to share this so vendors who sell bitcoins on LBC and stuff know to be careful and that this could easily happen to them if they have high bitcoin sales.
Basically I order an oz or half oz off SR every couple months, I barely smoke (only on occasion, since I don't drink) so it's kept somewhere where its put to more use. I mean the last transaction I made was when I was in the UK and we needed some bud.
BUT YEAH....I mean i'm not looking for any sympathy or anything here guys, I'm totally fine and so happy that I'm not involved in anything incriminating (although if I was I would have been much safer)
I have emailed LBC to see what they have to say...no reply so far
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Way to dodge the important question! How did you get your hands on an avalon? How much did it cost? How much would you sell it for?
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Way to dodge the important question! How did you get your hands on an avalon? How much did it cost? How much would you sell it for?
LOL...arrived via DHL back in January....I can't tell you how happy I was I went with them instead of BFL. I see people crying all over how they have been waiting forever and ever while I mint away =)
I heard they pegged the price at 70 BTC now? And man I would never sell this thing..paid for itself almost instantly.
Funniest thing is since I had a bunch of 6990s I sold I kept two for myself. I don't usually game so I crossfired them and thought I would try...one week later there both fried! Hopefully the ones I sold didn't have similar faith because I might get a bunch of angry people hunting me down from Kijiji!!!
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Reminds me of this.
i dont trust localbitcoins.com because what if its a fed setting up an account and selling bitcoins locally and ten they follow you to your house and keep you under watch
I'll just leave this here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174918.0
So, as a few of you guys know, I'm moving to another country soon enough. When I get over there I won't have access to my bank account, so a few weeks ago I decided it might be a good idea to sell some of my BTC for cash. I had done this a couple of times before and had a positive experience, so had no whims about doing it again.
So I received a request from someone who wanted to buy 500euro worth of BTC in a f2f transaction. I drove down to meeting spot, met the guy, he gave me the 500euro and basically ran back to his car and drove off. I obviously found this strange, but it was an escrow tx, so I released escrow from my phone and went back to my car.
On my drive back, I noticed that there was a Ford Mondeo behind me (the kind of car that is usually used by undercover police in my city). It seemed to be following me, I didn't have all my paperwork on my car in order, so I decided to take a detour down some local back-roads and shake it.
So anyways, I lost the car, drove home and thought nothing of this strange encounter.
Over the next few days, I noticed strange needle marks and tiny tears in all of my mail, I also noticed a really strange parked car outside my house one day, when I walked over to it to ask them what they were doing there, they drove off at speed. I probably should've been suspicious then, but I had done nothing wrong and shrugged it off.
A couple of days later, I wake up to the sound of my door being smashed in. I run down to find 5 police officers in my house. They showed me a search warrant under the misuse of drugs act. The national drugs unit were parked outside with sniffer dogs ready, they left after a few minutes though and didn't come inside with the dogs. The police told me the person I met on localbitcoins was an undercover police officer, and they had copied the registration number off of my car and got my address from it.
They stripped the whole house down, turned everything upside down looking for drugs. They found 1 joint of weed and they also seized a clock which they thought was a digital scale (it wasn't) and informed me that they were going to prosecute me for intent to supply, even though I wasn't selling, and I showed them a prescription from a doctor in another country (that isn't valid here) and told them the superintendant of the local police station had informally told me that they wouldn't prosecute me for possession if it was medical use even though I was technically breaking the law. They also found padded envelopes and accused me of selling drugs through the post (a complete lie with no evidence).
They then told me that if I didn't give them all the messages & phone numbers of everyone I had met to sell BTC that they were going to seize all my bitcoin miners, computers etc and have them "analyzed". I was about to move country in the next few days and didn't want the hassle of having to deal with this, so I told them that I had deleted all the messages (which I did) but that I would be able to get them back if they left my computers there, and that I would co-operate fully (I'm obviously not going to co-operate). They then left and I changed my flight date and basically fled the country the next day, luckily I was planning on moving in a week anyways.
So, a warning to you guys, be careful doing f2f transactions or buying/selling BTC in general, even though we're not breaking the law it doesn't mean you won't get unwanted attention from the police.
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Before this spins out of control and the rumors start flying, I was the one who PMed tit4tat007 and it was to find a steady seller of BTC. I figured that since he mines lots of coins that he would be one of the best guys here to talk to about it and try to work something out for a good supply.
We exchanged a few messages and then I didn't hear back from him until he accused me of calling the Feds on him. This was after he told me that his ads were mysteriously not appearing on LBC and that he would be contacting them to find out why.
I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS SHIT. I don't know what happened other than reading his accusation in my PM and seeing the thread here.
I have given advice in these forums on how to exercise your rights to prevent EXACTLY the kind of shit that tit4tat007 went through here. First off, never let LE into your home. NEVER. The only exception is if they have a warrant that bears your name, the current date, the correct address and exactly what's to be searched, signed by a sitting judge. If you were ever handed a warrant, CALL YOUR LAWYER IMMEDIATELY.
But you know.... this is all my fault because I told tit4tat that I remember his LBC nick from a few months ago, revealing mine in the process. I was very open with him all the way. Too bad it had to come to this. >:( :( :o
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Well, tit4tat, thanks for sharing this - and for clearing it up. I figured what you said might have been the case. I really hope others who are thinking of selling on localbitcoins (or buying from it, I suppose), get to see this thread. Seems some people have already had their suspicions anyway, but this is pretty troubling.
It really does go to show though, they are struggling to deal with the almighty Silk Road. Obviously really fucking desperate to get convictions.
Congrats LE, on making royal fools of yourselves 8)
On a side note - what about bitbargain? Presumably the same is happening there. I mean, theres no face to face meet ups are there? But people are still using the personal bank accounts to buy.
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As a few others have intimated, this story just doesn't ring true. That the authorities might be interested in a large seller of btc isn't in itself that surprising but the more likely response would be a tax audit. From there the authorities could build parallel cases: one for tax evasion and another for whatever illlicit activity they can tie to the btc operation. But the idea that local LEOs will just turn up and seek entry to search your place on some sort of hunch is extremely unlikely (especially in major city like Toronto where they are used to dealing with sophisticated illicit operations). If the police were told 'no, I'm not granting you permission to search my house' then they would have to leave and secure a warrant while giving the occupants of the house the opportunity to 'clean up' - this sort of telegraphing of intent is just not very probable.
If the cops sensed there is something to this guy that deserves a deeper look, they would be far more likely to monitor your mail, seek info of your internet usage through your ISP, and maybe some checks on bank accounts to try and figure out how much money this btc operation makes. Once they have all the facts they can fairly easily dig up, and if they can make a case to a judge, then they might come by - with warrant in hand.
PB.
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Well, tit4tat, thanks for sharing this - and for clearing it up. I figured what you said might have been the case. I really hope others who are thinking of selling on localbitcoins (or buying from it, I suppose), get to see this thread. Seems some people have already had their suspicions anyway, but this is pretty troubling.
It really does go to show though, they are struggling to deal with the almighty Silk Road. Obviously really fucking desperate to get convictions.
Congrats LE, on making royal fools of yourselves 8)
On a side note - what about bitbargain? Presumably the same is happening there. I mean, theres no face to face meet ups are there? But people are still using the personal bank accounts to buy.
The buying and selling of btc is not a crime. It is fine to purchase a small amount of coin using a personal bank account - there are something like 100 new retailers a day signing up to use btc so purchasing a small quantity in 'public' (using a bank transfer that can be easily traced) is not a problem (different story for vendors and those moving large quantities of coin though). The trick is making sure the btc you purchased and arrived to your online wallet can in no way be linked to the btc that arrive to a SR account. But if you send to SR using, say, shared send from BC, and then SR of course puts the payment through a tumbler, it is very very close to impossible for anyone to definitively link the coin you purchased from Local Bitcoin, with a coin that arrives to SR.
PB.
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people watch too much movies
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As a few others have intimated, this story just doesn't ring true. That the authorities might be interested in a large seller of btc isn't in itself that surprising but the more likely response would be a tax audit. From there the authorities could build parallel cases: one for tax evasion and another for whatever illlicit activity they can tie to the btc operation. But the idea that local LEOs will just turn up and seek entry to search your place on some sort of hunch is extremely unlikely (especially in major city like Toronto where they are used to dealing with sophisticated illicit operations). If the police were told 'no, I'm not granting you permission to search my house' then they would have to leave and secure a warrant while giving the occupants of the house the opportunity to 'clean up' - this sort of telegraphing of intent is just not very probable.
If the cops sensed there is something to this guy that deserves a deeper look, they would be far more likely to monitor your mail, seek info of your internet usage through your ISP, and maybe some checks on bank accounts to try and figure out how much money this btc operation makes. Once they have all the facts they can fairly easily dig up, and if they can make a case to a judge, then they might come by - with warrant in hand.
PB.
I am guessing they did but they could not come up with enough evidence for a judge to grant them a warrant. So they went to the alternative of knocking on the door, questioning, then watching the house for any disposal of potential evidence. I think there still monitoring my house, but I could not care less. I pay and declare all my taxes appropriately (at least that's what my accountant tells me LOL)
I mean I am just letting vendors know what happened. They checked into me because of high bitcoin sales. They didn't come bang down my door, they didn't tear up my sofa and mattresses. And they did not have a warrant. It is highly possible they were looking into me for some time but, as I said before, I am (almost) clean as a whistle. There really would be nothing to find, which is why I believe they resorted to this feeble attempt to amount some sort of evidence for an arrest
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Well, tit4tat, thanks for sharing this - and for clearing it up. I figured what you said might have been the case. I really hope others who are thinking of selling on localbitcoins (or buying from it, I suppose), get to see this thread. Seems some people have already had their suspicions anyway, but this is pretty troubling.
It really does go to show though, they are struggling to deal with the almighty Silk Road. Obviously really fucking desperate to get convictions.
Congrats LE, on making royal fools of yourselves 8)
On a side note - what about bitbargain? Presumably the same is happening there. I mean, theres no face to face meet ups are there? But people are still using the personal bank accounts to buy.
The buying and selling of btc is not a crime. It is fine to purchase a small amount of coin using a personal bank account - there are something like 100 new retailers a day signing up to use btc so purchasing a small quantity in 'public' (using a bank transfer that can be easily traced) is not a problem (different story for vendors and those moving large quantities of coin though). The trick is making sure the btc you purchased and arrived to your online wallet can in no way be linked to the btc that arrive to a SR account. But if you send to SR using, say, shared send from BC, and then SR of course puts the payment through a tumbler, it is very very close to impossible for anyone to definitively link the coin you purchased from Local Bitcoin, with a coin that arrives to SR.
PB.
Thats not really what the topic is about though. Nobody is saying that the buying or selling of btc is a crime. This guy isn't much of an SR user - so thats not the issue here either.
Its not that black and white - whats happened here is unlikely, and doesnt make sense without the other side of the story, which we'll never have (i'm talking about LE's side). But its definitely not impossible. To me, it seems quite reasonable that the pressure on LE to make SR busts, paired with some plain old ignorance or human error in interpreting what this guy was upto, could have lead to them knocking on his door. Stranger things have happened.
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As a few others have intimated, this story just doesn't ring true. That the authorities might be interested in a large seller of btc isn't in itself that surprising but the more likely response would be a tax audit. From there the authorities could build parallel cases: one for tax evasion and another for whatever illlicit activity they can tie to the btc operation. But the idea that local LEOs will just turn up and seek entry to search your place on some sort of hunch is extremely unlikely (especially in major city like Toronto where they are used to dealing with sophisticated illicit operations). If the police were told 'no, I'm not granting you permission to search my house' then they would have to leave and secure a warrant while giving the occupants of the house the opportunity to 'clean up' - this sort of telegraphing of intent is just not very probable.
If the cops sensed there is something to this guy that deserves a deeper look, they would be far more likely to monitor your mail, seek info of your internet usage through your ISP, and maybe some checks on bank accounts to try and figure out how much money this btc operation makes. Once they have all the facts they can fairly easily dig up, and if they can make a case to a judge, then they might come by - with warrant in hand.
PB.
I am guessing they did but they could not come up with enough evidence for a judge to grant them a warrant. So they went to the alternative of knocking on the door, questioning, then watching the house for any disposal of potential evidence. I think there still monitoring my house, but I could not care less. I pay and declare all my taxes appropriately (at least that's what my accountant tells me LOL)
I mean I am just letting vendors know what happened. They checked into me because of high bitcoin sales. They didn't come bang down my door, they didn't tear up my sofa and mattresses. And they did not have a warrant. It is highly possible they were looking into me for some time but, as I said before, I am (almost) clean as a whistle. There really would be nothing to find, which is why I believe they resorted to this feeble attempt to amount some sort of evidence for an arrest
Well, I'm not going to say this is fiction (just yet) - but it is one of the more unusual stories I've heard. Let's walk through it. Local LEO's find you trading btc and decide to visit your home to request permission to search your house. I'm curious how they justified the request. Did they tell you your name had been mentioned by someone else? As well, I don't ever recall hearing a story whereby the police asked to search a house - rather it is more common for police to ask to come in 'for a chat' to 'help clarify some things that have come up in another investigation' that sort of thing. It's quite novel for the police to arrive and say' hi - can we search your house?' And even less likely anyone would consent. It is more common for them to try and get their foot in the door through some other pretense and then, once inside, start looking around.
Finally, you mentioned this occurred in Toronto - so why were the feds (RCMP) involved? Toronto Metro is huge police force (largest in Canada I believe) and the feds would only be conducting high level investigations of a national scope in Toronto ... again, I'm struggling to understand why the federal police would arrive at your door, without a warrant, and ask to search your house for unspecified reasons ... sorry buddy, but this sounds a lot like BS.
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Well, tit4tat, thanks for sharing this - and for clearing it up. I figured what you said might have been the case. I really hope others who are thinking of selling on localbitcoins (or buying from it, I suppose), get to see this thread. Seems some people have already had their suspicions anyway, but this is pretty troubling.
It really does go to show though, they are struggling to deal with the almighty Silk Road. Obviously really fucking desperate to get convictions.
Congrats LE, on making royal fools of yourselves 8)
On a side note - what about bitbargain? Presumably the same is happening there. I mean, theres no face to face meet ups are there? But people are still using the personal bank accounts to buy.
The buying and selling of btc is not a crime. It is fine to purchase a small amount of coin using a personal bank account - there are something like 100 new retailers a day signing up to use btc so purchasing a small quantity in 'public' (using a bank transfer that can be easily traced) is not a problem (different story for vendors and those moving large quantities of coin though). The trick is making sure the btc you purchased and arrived to your online wallet can in no way be linked to the btc that arrive to a SR account. But if you send to SR using, say, shared send from BC, and then SR of course puts the payment through a tumbler, it is very very close to impossible for anyone to definitively link the coin you purchased from Local Bitcoin, with a coin that arrives to SR.
PB.
Thats not really what the topic is about though. Nobody is saying that the buying or selling of btc is a crime. This guy isn't much of an SR user - so thats not the issue here either.
Its not that black and white - whats happened here is unlikely, and doesnt make sense without the other side of the story, which we'll never have (i'm talking about LE's side). But its definitely not impossible. To me, it seems quite reasonable that the pressure on LE to make SR busts, paired with some plain old ignorance or human error in interpreting what this guy was upto, could have lead to them knocking on his door. Stranger things have happened.
Odd things happen - I agree.
But here we are told a federal police agency dropped by for unspecified reasons - tipping the suspect off to their investigation for no obvious purpose. Maybe the RCMP are just really incompetent. Or maybe this story is a fairly tale. You're right that local LEO's would like to make a few SR busts, but there is much lower hanging fruit associated with SR for them to go after. A lot of the vendors here also run street operations. The less intelligent among them are lazy, don't practice good opsec and are pretty easy pickings for LE.
Now, a tax investigation into the income of btc miner I can more easily believe - and of course tax evasion will get you more time than petty dealing.
PB.
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Interesting point - but for me this just comes down to human error. If it happened, it happened because of incompetents. And lets face it - they're no fairytale ;)
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Oh ... a karma neg.
Seems I may have touched a nerve.
I could also mention as well that as Ontario (the province where Toronto is located) has it's own provincial police, the RCMP in that province would only be involved in Major investigations of a national scope.
It could be that tit4tat007 sold some btc to a cop (nothing illegal about that), or sold to an individual that is/was under investigation at the time. OK, that I can see. But this leap whereby that turns into the feds requesting an unwarranted search ... not so much. As I have said, if they thought the poster was worth investigating, their first move wouldn't be to knock on the front door and announce themselves and their investigation.
Then to say the house is still being watched ... sure. Because in major cities across NA cops have ample resources to put a car on house that has been searched and produced nothing, and where no illicit product is being shipped.
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As a few others have intimated, this story just doesn't ring true. That the authorities might be interested in a large seller of btc isn't in itself that surprising but the more likely response would be a tax audit. From there the authorities could build parallel cases: one for tax evasion and another for whatever illlicit activity they can tie to the btc operation. But the idea that local LEOs will just turn up and seek entry to search your place on some sort of hunch is extremely unlikely (especially in major city like Toronto where they are used to dealing with sophisticated illicit operations). If the police were told 'no, I'm not granting you permission to search my house' then they would have to leave and secure a warrant while giving the occupants of the house the opportunity to 'clean up' - this sort of telegraphing of intent is just not very probable.
If the cops sensed there is something to this guy that deserves a deeper look, they would be far more likely to monitor your mail, seek info of your internet usage through your ISP, and maybe some checks on bank accounts to try and figure out how much money this btc operation makes. Once they have all the facts they can fairly easily dig up, and if they can make a case to a judge, then they might come by - with warrant in hand.
PB.
I am guessing they did but they could not come up with enough evidence for a judge to grant them a warrant. So they went to the alternative of knocking on the door, questioning, then watching the house for any disposal of potential evidence. I think there still monitoring my house, but I could not care less. I pay and declare all my taxes appropriately (at least that's what my accountant tells me LOL)
I mean I am just letting vendors know what happened. They checked into me because of high bitcoin sales. They didn't come bang down my door, they didn't tear up my sofa and mattresses. And they did not have a warrant. It is highly possible they were looking into me for some time but, as I said before, I am (almost) clean as a whistle. There really would be nothing to find, which is why I believe they resorted to this feeble attempt to amount some sort of evidence for an arrest
Don't mean to drag this out, but I just noticed something you said: "...knocking on the door, questioning". But you said they entered the house and searched everywhere? Did they question you before or after the search? Did they advise you of your rights before questioning? You mention an arrest, did they arrest you? If so on what charge specifically? You said "there would be nothing to find", but as you say they searched the house so your phrasing is odd. More like, 'they searched and found nothing', not 'there really would be nothing to find' which suggest they didn't search.
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FACT #1: tit4tat is one of the only people in Canada to be mining with an Avalon rig at over 60 GH/s
FACT #2: tit4tat's bank manager just recently pulled him aside to question him about his cash activity, telling him that his account has been flagged
FACT #3: 2 of Canada's largest banks kicked the largest Bitcoin operations out of their accounts only last month. ***NO*** other countries' banks have done the same!
Put those 3 together and what you get is LE intimidation into a legitimate major Bitcoin business. The banks report EVERYTHING to the Canadian version of FINCEN. I think LE got what it needed and paid tit4tat a visit in the hopes that they'd find something incriminating. They also taught him a lesson and scared him. A lot. I wouldn't put any of this past them. I seriously think his bank sicked the Feds on him.
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As a few others have intimated, this story just doesn't ring true. That the authorities might be interested in a large seller of btc isn't in itself that surprising but the more likely response would be a tax audit. From there the authorities could build parallel cases: one for tax evasion and another for whatever illlicit activity they can tie to the btc operation. But the idea that local LEOs will just turn up and seek entry to search your place on some sort of hunch is extremely unlikely (especially in major city like Toronto where they are used to dealing with sophisticated illicit operations). If the police were told 'no, I'm not granting you permission to search my house' then they would have to leave and secure a warrant while giving the occupants of the house the opportunity to 'clean up' - this sort of telegraphing of intent is just not very probable.
If the cops sensed there is something to this guy that deserves a deeper look, they would be far more likely to monitor your mail, seek info of your internet usage through your ISP, and maybe some checks on bank accounts to try and figure out how much money this btc operation makes. Once they have all the facts they can fairly easily dig up, and if they can make a case to a judge, then they might come by - with warrant in hand.
PB.
I am guessing they did but they could not come up with enough evidence for a judge to grant them a warrant. So they went to the alternative of knocking on the door, questioning, then watching the house for any disposal of potential evidence. I think there still monitoring my house, but I could not care less. I pay and declare all my taxes appropriately (at least that's what my accountant tells me LOL)
I mean I am just letting vendors know what happened. They checked into me because of high bitcoin sales. They didn't come bang down my door, they didn't tear up my sofa and mattresses. And they did not have a warrant. It is highly possible they were looking into me for some time but, as I said before, I am (almost) clean as a whistle. There really would be nothing to find, which is why I believe they resorted to this feeble attempt to amount some sort of evidence for an arrest
Don't mean to drag this out, but I just noticed something you said: "...knocking on the door, questioning". But you said they entered the house and searched everywhere? Did they question you before or after the search? Did they advise you of your rights before questioning? You mention an arrest, did they arrest you? If so on what charge specifically? You said "there would be nothing to find", but as you say they searched the house so your phrasing is odd. More like, 'they searched and found nothing', not 'there really would be nothing to find' which suggest they didn't search.
I think your misreading mate, I was not arrested at all. In fact the cops were not extremely hostile or anything, like nothing excessive. According to my brother they told him how there is some evidence how I may be involved in some illicit activity and they need to ask me a few questions. He said sure let them in and then called me down.
They told me about how I have been having a lot of these email transfer for bitcoins, and were saying how drug dealers and human traffickers and pedophiles tale bitcoins for payment and need to convert it to the cash, and began asking if I was involved in this stuff.
Right away I took them to my mining room, explained how it made the money and stuff. I told them to feel free to take a look around, and they did.
They did it respectfully though, I would say, compared to how other people describe raids being done.
But yea all this is pretty much besides the point lol...I got nothing to gain from this...just wanted to alert vendors and stuff because if they are doing this they would have been screwed had they been in my position.
And they searched and found nothing .. because there is nothing to find =) . Like I explained, I am not your typical SR user I would say. Me and my buddies don't know anyone who to get Pot off, and rather then have to go to random strangers and get some weird weed we turn to SR. Plus I am in the UK a lot and those people down there can be kinda rough haha so I usually use SR when I am there and want to relax.
If my tone made you think that they like smashed down my door and like handcuffed me it was nothing like this at all. While they did seem a bit aggressive and stuff at first by the time they left it was a much lighter mood. I was pissed because I thought it was because a user who PM'd me was LE and that just got my blood boiling. But thinking about it now, that could have just been a coincidence.
The user replied to my PM with his suggestion that it was the bank which probably alerted the police, as I did have issues with them. This also could be possible, but I do not rule out LBC as having a role in this encounter.
But yea man no charges have been laid against me, no arrests, no warrant. I do think they are still watching the place though, I couldn't say for certain. They did not seize my mining equipment and stuff, and it is nothing like the story Jack n Hoff posted. If they took my miner I would probably not be able to write this because I would be too busy killing myself.
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If they took my miner I would probably not be able to write this because I would be too busy killing myself.
LOL! My thoughts exactly. Man you have no idea how jealous I am of you. Like I seriously envy you. Can we have a discussion about your ASIC? So many things I want to talk about...
Make a thread and tell us about it please! Like, how much does it mint per day, have the returns diminished since you got it, what do you expect to be making 1 year from now, just fun stuff like that! I think a lot of us would really like that :)
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This is a bad idea on so many levels, I don't know where to start.
DON'T TALK TO POLICE. AND NEVER, EVER LET THEM INTO YOUR HOME.
"Sorry, officer/constable/sergeant/whatever, I know you're just doing your job, but I don't know you, I can't let you into my home, and I don't consent to any searches of my premises."
If LE ever had a hard-on for you, you would have buried yourself by letting them in. They would've found a way to obtain a warrant to seize and search your computers. And used the seizure of your mining rig to pressure you to cooperate, maybe as far as getting you to agree to a plea. Maybe this doesn't happen in Canada as much as it does in the US, but it does happen. All because people want to play nice with the police, talk to them all they want, and do it in the quiet of their own home.
Consider yourself lucky this time around because next time you won't be.
According to my brother they told him how there is some evidence how I may be involved in some illicit activity and they need to ask me a few questions. He said sure let them in and then called me down.
They told me about how I have been having a lot of these email transfer for bitcoins, and were saying how drug dealers and human traffickers and pedophiles tale bitcoins for payment and need to convert it to the cash, and began asking if I was involved in this stuff.
Right away I took them to my mining room, explained how it made the money and stuff. I told them to feel free to take a look around, and they did.
They did it respectfully though, I would say, compared to how other people describe raids being done.
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BTC isnt illegal, but LE knows exactly what people use it for, they know anyone with BTC has a certain % chance that they are familiar with SR, so they took their chance and tried to see if they could charge him with something.
Even if you know you don't have anything to hide, never talk to the cops and especially don't consent to ANYTHING let alone searches.
Seriously dont talk to the cops.
Theyll turn a phrase and next thing you know youre fucked.
Just dont talk to cops.
DENY DENY DENY
"Silk who?...oh yeah that ancient trade route we learned about in High School..."
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I just read the Toronto mayor is involved in a big scandal over smoking crack cocaine. It's making international news now. That's gotta be a little demoralizing to the cops there
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I seriously think his bank sicked the Feds on him.
Would it be a stretch to think that the feds already contacted his ISP and saw tor activity, giving them more suspicious activity?
This is a bad idea on so many levels, I don't know where to start.
DON'T TALK TO POLICE. AND NEVER, EVER LET THEM INTO YOUR HOME.
You don't even have to open the door afaik. Silk Road makes me want to enter into legal studies.
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I shall repeat this mantra to the end of my days: tell police to FUCK OFF, and FUCK OFF HARD!
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I shall repeat this mantra to the end of my days: tell police to FUCK OFF, and FUCK OFF HARD!
Agreed! 8)
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Interesting thread...I was wondering about the sellers of BTC on localbitcoins when I checked it out
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I'm still debating between Bitinstant and BST. Although I did find some localbitcoins in my area
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I for one totally believe this story.
Here is how I think it went down. Some asshole got busted and needed to roll over on someone. The best he could think of was the guy he bought bitcoins from. He tells a little story and next thing you know there's a knock at the door.
Modzi
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I believe this story too.