Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Iliveinthekhole on May 20, 2013, 04:44 pm
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Hey guys
I suffer from extreme social anxiety and I take xanax to help me combat simple things such as going into town to do shopping and stuff. If I have to go into a large shopping mall packed with people my normal dose is about 5 x 2mg bars 30 mins before I enter the store, and 3 - 4 cans of bourbon. Without bourbon, I have to take double the dose so around 8 x 2mg bars.
This dose will allow up to 1 - 1.5 hours of shopping / crowded area. If im stuck at say a wedding or some gathering that goes all day ... I can consume up to 30 x 2mg bars in an 8 hour season. What ever is in this drug, is the cure for the malfunction in my brain, without it, I CANNOT go into any public area, the voices get so loud that I cant hear / intake what the person im having a conversation with.
Now some people think that this dose is slightly on the higher side of what most people take, but unfortunately due to tolerance, 8 bars now has the effect 1/2 a bar did when I started. Im not off my face at 8 bars, I dont sway, I dont slur, I feel like its the chemical in my brain thats missing to live that normal life that most of you take for granted. Im just able to walk with my head up, not stairng down as I walk, and I dont have the constant voices listening to everyone's conversations and then the voices "de crypting" the code the public speak to humiliate me.
Now ive read and had a few people talk about Klonopin, saying its kind of the same affect as xanax but long lasting.
Id like to hear from someone who has had both and let me know if it has the same affect feeling like "yah there probably talking about me, but who gives a damn" aka normal persons mind I guess?
So is this something I should try swapping to? I am sick of carrying 30 - 40 bars on me eveytime I have t go out,
Also, another drug that works the same as Xanax I have found is rohypnol, but its harder to get now and they are only 1 mg tabs ....
I rattle so loud when I walk, its not cool.
Hope someone can shed some light on the subject.
Thank you
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Klonopin has a longer half life, and in the past, I found it to be much more useful than Xanax in serious cases.
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Here's some advice that you will no doubt love me for:
Buy the cheap diazepam powder on SR. Stop getting Xanax bars and Klonopin, while good and having a half life than Xanax, is still useless IMHO.
Valium is the best that I've ever come into contact with. I go through about 1 gram every week or two, and it's just wonderful. It works so well! The half life being so large is also very beneficial. One dose will probably get you through that shitty wedding. I have terrible social anxiety and panic so I understand what you're going through.
By voices do you, by chance, happen to mean schizophrenia? If so, you need to drop the benzos and get on an antipsychotic. They help anxiety as well. I have schizophrenia too, but I'm unmedicated. None of the AP/AAPs I've tried have worked for me and it's pretty pointless to keep trying. They have pretty shit side effects too, but they DO help a lot of people, so...
Anyway, good luck to you. I hope you find a drug that works.
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I wouldn't be too sure about valium in this case though. If you are taking something like 10 mg of xanax, the equivalent dose of valium for anxiety relief would be something like 100 to 200 mg. That is literally enough to give an elephant a good nights sleep, though by no means a fatal dose on its own.
Clonazepam is longer lasting compared to alprazolam, which may be a benefit if you need it all of the time. Otherwise, i suppose it would be better to take alprazolam only when needed, and nothing when not needed (i.e. being safely at home etc).
By what you describe it would, however, seek further proper medical treatment. General and/or social axiety are fairly common problems that are often solved by the same treatment (i.e. "normal" doses of alprazolam, clonazepam, diazepam etc). Auditory illusions or overstimulation are not a common factor in such disorders however, and i could be worth to get that checked out instead of taking ever higher doses of benzo's to deal with the situation.
Perhaps there it something wrong with your ears in the most literal sense of it, which may be remedied by a more specific approach. I'd have an audiogram taken at the very least to ensure that your ears are working the way they should be. Worst case that reveals nothing at all, but considering its a fairly inexpensive test i'd still recommend just taking it to exclude things at least.
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I take 150mg of Valium almost every night. At the very least 80mg. I have been known to take upwards of half a gram (and I've taken a gram before!) however. The LD50 for basically any benzo is so low that you simply are NOT going to die. APAP is so much more dangerous. Diazepam is simply a better anxiolytic. Xanax/alprazolam is good, but it's mainly for breakthrough PANIC, not anxiety. Clonazepam is much better for anxiety, though for me, I find diazepam to be significantly better.
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Klonopins are the best overall benzos for all round anxiety problems.
Due to it's long active half life and potency, low doses are used 1-2 times a day or when needed.
Xanax and valium are nice but the tolerance grows way to fast. They are good if taken on an off. Xanax especially if you need to sleep or when coming off hard drugs. Valiums would be the most perfect benzo for social anxiety but obviously due to the tolerance growth it's not very practical.
If you tell a psychiatrist you want to take 20mg of a valiums a day, he will look at you like you are crazy as that is already a very high dose. I couldn't tell my psychiatrist I was able to take 200+mg to feel normal, 12-16mg of xanax, or 4-8mg of klonopins or he would never prescribe anything.
Klonopins are the least desirable to abuse yet have been the most helpful in my life. Absorption can be quickened by taking it sublingually under the tongue and you can also ask the doc for klonopin wafers that melt even faster in the mouth.
Good luck
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whatever you do... do not drink alchohol and clonopin.
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You shouldn't drink alcohol with any benzo perioid.
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Holy fuck that is a lot of benzo's!!
I know that anxiety can be bad, but taking that quantity of benzo's and even mixing it with alcohol isn't going to help in the long run.
Have you tried getting counselling or something? This could help you a lot.
I'm not saying benzo's are a bad thing, but I just don't think they are the solution to your problem.
Everyone is affected differently, but exercise helps a lot of people who get anxiety.
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Where the fuck do you live where they serve bourbon in cans?
Seriously though, you need to go into inpatient at the hospital and wean down your dose and get on either klonopin at a lower dose or due a diazepam taper in hospital or you're going to have DT's if you stop cold turkey. You had me @ liquor + benzos. Your quality of life will improve if you detox.
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Where the fuck do you live where they serve bourbon in cans?
Seriously though, you need to go into inpatient at the hospital and wean down your dose and get on either klonopin at a lower dose or due a diazepam taper in hospital or you're going to have DT's if you stop cold turkey. You had me @ liquor + benzos. Your quality of life will improve if you detox.
Where do you live where they don't sell bourbon in cans?
They are found here in cans pre-mixed with cola.
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I didn't say a mixed drink. I said a can of bourbon. Straight bourbon. In a can.
Well I guess wine comes in a box...
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I didn't say a mixed drink. I said a can of bourbon. Straight bourbon. In a can.
Well I guess wine comes in a box...
Well we can assume the OP was referring to cans of mixed bourbon.
3 cans of straight bourbon would be enough to get most people extremely drunk, let alone being mixed with benzo's.
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Klonopin is the best anxiolytic benzo, period.
Xanax really gets me high. Don't get me wrong, it relieves anxiety, but not as functionally as Kpins. And Xanax has stronger side effects too from my experience.
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I take 150mg of Valium almost every night. At the very least 80mg. I have been known to take upwards of half a gram (and I've taken a gram before!) however. The LD50 for basically any benzo is so low that you simply are NOT going to die.
As others have mentioned, the combination with alcohol is dangerous.
By itself a gram of valium (i.e. 100 typical 10 mg pills) will not kill you, they will knock most people out for a day or perhaps two without much of a lasting effect at all. If you down those same 100 tablets with a bottle of booze things change though. Respiratory depression becomes a really issue, and can be fatal if untreated (i.e. it happens when you are alone in your own bed). Tolerance obviously plays a role, but there still is a risk.
Looking strictly at the benzo's i would not say clonazepam is worse or better than alprazolam. They have different properties, and half life is an important one there. Alprazolam is very good for short term use, take a dose before going into a situation that sparks anxiety for you. Clonazepam may be more suitable if you suffer from panic problems all of the time and need are more constant treatment.
I would argue to try alprazolam first though, since it can bring very good relief when required, while it clears your system rapidly enough to avoid tolerance/dependence problems if you do not need in on a daily basis.
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Hey guys
I suffer from extreme social anxiety and I take xanax to help me combat simple things such as going into town to do shopping and stuff. If I have to go into a large shopping mall packed with people my normal dose is about 5 x 2mg bars 30 mins before I enter the store, and 3 - 4 cans of bourbon. Without bourbon, I have to take double the dose so around 8 x 2mg bars.
This dose will allow up to 1 - 1.5 hours of shopping / crowded area. If im stuck at say a wedding or some gathering that goes all day ... I can consume up to 30 x 2mg bars in an 8 hour season. What ever is in this drug, is the cure for the malfunction in my brain, without it, I CANNOT go into any public area, the voices get so loud that I cant hear / intake what the person im having a conversation with.
Now some people think that this dose is slightly on the higher side of what most people take, but unfortunately due to tolerance, 8 bars now has the effect 1/2 a bar did when I started. Im not off my face at 8 bars, I dont sway, I dont slur, I feel like its the chemical in my brain thats missing to live that normal life that most of you take for granted. Im just able to walk with my head up, not stairng down as I walk, and I dont have the constant voices listening to everyone's conversations and then the voices "de crypting" the code the public speak to humiliate me.
Now ive read and had a few people talk about Klonopin, saying its kind of the same affect as xanax but long lasting.
Id like to hear from someone who has had both and let me know if it has the same affect feeling like "yah there probably talking about me, but who gives a damn" aka normal persons mind I guess?
So is this something I should try swapping to? I am sick of carrying 30 - 40 bars on me eveytime I have t go out,
Also, another drug that works the same as Xanax I have found is rohypnol, but its harder to get now and they are only 1 mg tabs ....
I rattle so loud when I walk, its not cool.
Hope someone can shed some light on the subject.
Thank you
Sorry to hear of your problems. Anxiety is common and Xanax etc can help. But I'd only use it on desperate occasions. Reason for this is you can get addicted very quickly and feel withdrawal symptoms within 2 weeks. Yes 2 weeks. That's not set but everyone reacts differently. Second reason is an issue you already face. Tolerance builds so fast. Iv got a fair bit of experience with benzos and had withdrawal from Xanax after a week of recreational binges. Clonazepam is the strongest. It just feels more heavy and sedating. Diazepam is very good because of the long half life. Best way to control anxiety is both with real therapy combined with small amounts of drugs that treat anxiety.
Just don't lie to yourself and say you need drugs to treat a problem that doesn't even exist. And a lot of people would lie to themselfs and create a problem just to get drugs that get you high. I mean I did it when I was younger. I thought I had ADHD. Bullshit. Never had it. Just got high from Ritalin.
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I take 150mg of Valium almost every night. At the very least 80mg. I have been known to take upwards of half a gram (and I've taken a gram before!) however. The LD50 for basically any benzo is so low that you simply are NOT going to die.
As others have mentioned, the combination with alcohol is dangerous.
By itself a gram of valium (i.e. 100 typical 10 mg pills) will not kill you, they will knock most people out for a day or perhaps two without much of a lasting effect at all. If you down those same 100 tablets with a bottle of booze things change though. Respiratory depression becomes a really issue, and can be fatal if untreated (i.e. it happens when you are alone in your own bed). Tolerance obviously plays a role, but there still is a risk.
Looking strictly at the benzo's i would not say clonazepam is worse or better than alprazolam. They have different properties, and half life is an important one there. Alprazolam is very good for short term use, take a dose before going into a situation that sparks anxiety for you. Clonazepam may be more suitable if you suffer from panic problems all of the time and need are more constant treatment.
I would argue to try alprazolam first though, since it can bring very good relief when required, while it clears your system rapidly enough to avoid tolerance/dependence problems if you do not need in on a daily basis.
Yes, of course. Common knowledge. However, alprazolam has such a short half life, that it's not good for GAD. It's for breakthrough panic. Klonopin is far better for GAD. Valium as well.
For someone with ongoing and constant anxiety, the short half life of Xanax will wreck you. You need the benzodiazepine in your system for an extended period of time for the effects to remain. Once Xanax runs out, your anxiety is back.
Xanax is TERRIFIC, but it's NOT good for GAD.
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Clonazepam is much, much more effective than Xanax in a long term sense. The amount of Xanax bars you are taking are, to be blunt, is insane. If you are telling the truth, go get help and detox soon. You cannot live that way, for long.
With that being said, I have always found that Kpins are longer lasting with smaller doses and also not as many side effects. Xanax just puts me in a sleepy haze, and almost gives me a hangover-like feeling.
Good luck.
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Yes, of course. Common knowledge. However, alprazolam has such a short half life, that it's not good for GAD. It's for breakthrough panic. Klonopin is far better for GAD. Valium as well.
For someone with ongoing and constant anxiety, the short half life of Xanax will wreck you. You need the benzodiazepine in your system for an extended period of time for the effects to remain. Once Xanax runs out, your anxiety is back.
Xanax is TERRIFIC, but it's NOT good for GAD.
It depends on how generalized that anxiety actually is. Often there is an agoraphobia component to is (there seems to be in this case). If it can be controlled by xanax there is something to say for chosing xanax of clonazepam in that scenario.
The long half life of clonazepam and especially diazepam give the user little control or choice. While effective, there are just not drugs you can only take when required and leave when not, increasing the risk of tolerance and dependence.
This is taking into account that the generalized part in GAD often actually does not mean 'in any situation', but just 'in more than one specific situation'. Fear of heights would probably be classified as specific, but fear of getting hit in/by traffic would already border on generalized since there is little chance of avoiding traffic apart from staying in your house all the time.
If the axiety trigger is in any way predictable and not present continously, shorter lived benzo's like xanax have a definite advantage at both reducing risk of dependence and giving the patient a feeling of control. The latter isn't often mentioned, but handing someone a tool to make an otherwise very unpleasant activity bearable/neutral can be very constructive.
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Yes, of course. Common knowledge. However, alprazolam has such a short half life, that it's not good for GAD. It's for breakthrough panic. Klonopin is far better for GAD. Valium as well.
For someone with ongoing and constant anxiety, the short half life of Xanax will wreck you. You need the benzodiazepine in your system for an extended period of time for the effects to remain. Once Xanax runs out, your anxiety is back.
Xanax is TERRIFIC, but it's NOT good for GAD.
It depends on how generalized that anxiety actually is. Often there is an agoraphobia component to is (there seems to be in this case). If it can be controlled by xanax there is something to say for chosing xanax of clonazepam in that scenario.
The long half life of clonazepam and especially diazepam give the user little control or choice. While effective, there are just not drugs you can only take when required and leave when not, increasing the risk of tolerance and dependence.
This is taking into account that the generalized part in GAD often actually does not mean 'in any situation', but just 'in more than one specific situation'. Fear of heights would probably be classified as specific, but fear of getting hit in/by traffic would already border on generalized since there is little chance of avoiding traffic apart from staying in your house all the time.
If the axiety trigger is in any way predictable and not present continously, shorter lived benzo's like xanax have a definite advantage at both reducing risk of dependence and giving the patient a feeling of control. The latter isn't often mentioned, but handing someone a tool to make an otherwise very unpleasant activity bearable/neutral can be very constructive.
100% true and I agree with you completely. I was very unclear, forgive me for that. I was referring to GAD where the symptoms are continous.
Do not get me wrong. Xanax is a VERY, VERY good medication. I was on both that and klonopin for years. They both saved my life, and Xanax for breakthrough trigger panic on many occasions.
Thank you for making what I was saying clearer for everyone else, Ben.
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That's quite alright. The 'general' in GAD is just a bit of a misnomer, which can be interpreted as 'fear of everything all the time' or as ''fear of multiple (unrelated) things'.
The latter case is just more common - few patients experience fear all the time at all places. Many do, however, have panic sensations in a broad range of situations that often are not very obviously related to each other. If someone presents, with, for example, a fear of heights, a fear of large open spaces, and fear while driving across bridges and through tunnels, that could easily be labeled as generalized anxiety and medicated as such.
Practically such a patient would not need continuous anxiolytic treatment though, as most people spend their days away from ledges, public squares and highway tunnels. In such a case i think it would be better to use short acting treatments like xanax for instances where you know you have to, for example, walk about a public square. There would however be no reason to take any medication as long as you are sitting at home or working from your comfortably safe office.
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That's quite alright. The 'general' in GAD is just a bit of a misnomer, which can be interpreted as 'fear of everything all the time' or as ''fear of multiple (unrelated) things'.
The latter case is just more common - few patients experience fear all the time at all places. Many do, however, have panic sensations in a broad range of situations that often are not very obviously related to each other. If someone presents, with, for example, a fear of heights, a fear of large open spaces, and fear while driving across bridges and through tunnels, that could easily be labeled as generalized anxiety and medicated as such.
Practically such a patient would not need continuous anxiolytic treatment though, as most people spend their days away from ledges, public squares and highway tunnels. In such a case i think it would be better to use short acting treatments like xanax for instances where you know you have to, for example, walk about a public square. There would however be no reason to take any medication as long as you are sitting at home or working from your comfortably safe office.
Agreed again. You seem to know your stuff; are you involved in the medical community? I was originally in medical school but I dropped out. Valium is just a wonder for me, because I DO have constant anxiety (it's stupid, it's like anxiety-NOS. I'm anxious for no reason whatsoever).
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I'm no medical practitioner or anything like that, but do have a masters degree in (bio)chemistry. I suppose that provides an insight into pharmacological issues once in a while.
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I'm no medical practitioner or anything like that, but do have a masters degree in (bio)chemistry. I suppose that provides an insight into pharmacological issues once in a while.
I see, that explains it. Nice to meet you. Thank you for your insights. I love to hear from people in the chemistry community. I'm an organic chemist myself. Bio chem is NOT for me, haha.
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I suppose both branches of chemistry have their up and downsides ;)
Perhaps we should team up and find the ultimate knock-out drug and synthesize it too. It seems very odd that there is no substance that will put you to sleep quickly and reliably, apart from smelling a rag of chloroform. Considering the headaches you get from working with lower exposure to chloroform that doesn't seem like the best option, despite me really liking the smell of it :D
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I just read a great thread by DoctorX. Have you asked him this question?
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I suppose both branches of chemistry have their up and downsides ;)
Perhaps we should team up and find the ultimate knock-out drug and synthesize it too. It seems very odd that there is no substance that will put you to sleep quickly and reliably, apart from smelling a rag of chloroform. Considering the headaches you get from working with lower exposure to chloroform that doesn't seem like the best option, despite me really liking the smell of it :D
I've actually used chloroform to get to sleep before. It's insane sometimes how long I stay awake. But that headache really is a killer.
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That i can imagine. I've worked with solvents extensively and sometimes just on the bench even when protocol required a fumehood.
I actually like the smell of chloroform-methanol solvent, and i've never been overly cautious about handling it. The only real reason for me to use gloves was to avoid getting fatty acids from my hands into samples. Inhaling the stuff and getting it on my fingers did results in a headache with chloroform though.
Using chloroform as a sleep inducing agent is pretty dangerous though. If you have access to lab equipment, i'd prefer some nitrous oxide as that will knock you out cold with much less of a hangover the next day. Not that that is a safe sedative by any measure, but it surely is less dangerous compared to chloroform.
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If this is an issue everyday for you. You could take Clonazepam in the morning and before bed and take Xanax when you start to feel uneasy.
I have noticed taking benzo's sublingually have a quicker onset...
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Klonopin has a longer half life, and in the past, I found it to be much more useful than Xanax in serious cases.
In my opinion, this pretty much sums it up ^