Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: goblin on May 01, 2013, 12:44 am
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It occurred to me that this attacker, if he's one guy albeit with perhaps several machines at his disposal, wouldn't it be a tremendous drain on his resources to keep this attack continuously for so long already? Does it seem plausible that this can be done from one point?
Or would this indocate a systemic and widespread attack, such that could only be managed by government agencies with deep pockets? Any thoughts on this?
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Why would the government be behind this? Don't you think they'd rather take down SR in a very public way with big headline busts and the like? I don't see DDoS'ing SR to push business to other markets as a government tactic. This, in my opinion, has nothing to do with the government and everything to do with an angry individual or individuals.
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So you're saying that it is technically and physically possible for a lone individual to be able to do this, and through tor, yet.
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So you're saying that it is technically and physically possible for a lone individual to be able to do this, and through tor, yet.
Maybe a botnet?
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=153792.0
^ just popped up. Not sure if it's legit or not.
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Angry people suck. Either way, it can't go on forever . It consumes resources.
Sooner or later they will move on to more profitable targets.
This is so super-hero villan like.
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There's no government incentive in this really...
I don't think we'll ever know who decided to do this unless DPR finds something out or the attacker makes some sort of public statement. There have already been "reports" that the attacker(s) was/were doing it for a ransom, so I wouldn't expect any really accurate information from anyone other than the parties participating in this "cyber war"
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It has no sense to shutting down SR in this way by government but usually they're stupid so maybe they stay behind the attack ? However people wouldn't be happy if they heard that government spend funds from their taxes on fighting with website which is not main danger now.
Another hypothesis is that they're doing DDoS to check site engine, software and find some bugs.
But as I remember we had some DDoS in past and in past site was unable to reach for couple of days so I have some hope but what is worst in this case is that here is community but except all this community there's thousands of normal SilkRoad users whose don't follow all DPR updates and they're wondering what is happening and site will lose so much customers in this way if DPR don't turn it on back prompt.
My future idea is to promote more this forum because people has to have some place where they can come back and share their ideas / talk with each other or just feel stronger together.
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I guess we'll see how this new claim plays out
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They do not pay for the resources. They use computers all over the world that are unknowingly infected with software that runs in the background and takes control over their resources. The infected computers make up a what's called a botnet. They will likely have thousands to tens-of-thousands of bots in their botnet at a given time. The botnet operator can control the infected computers in various ways, which can be further enhanced and customized by scripting or coding your own programs, or by modifying existing ones.
The one thing the attack does have to do to maintain the botnet is add bots to it. A percentage of people will detect the software and remove it from their computer, thus removing a bot from the botnet. There are paid and non paid methods to add bots. If this is a skilled attacker who can program, he already has a bunch of non paid ways set up to automatically add bots via torrents and usenet. I would bet the attacker is skilled and can program since the way they are DOSing SR would require a custom Tor client, or scripting of Tor connections and is a-typical of normal DOS methods.
+1, we could use more facts and less speculation. ::)
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It occurred to me that this attacker, if he's one guy albeit with perhaps several machines at his disposal, wouldn't it be a tremendous drain on his resources to keep this attack continuously for so long already? Does it seem plausible that this can be done from one point?
Or would this indocate a systemic and widespread attack, such that could only be managed by government agencies with deep pockets? Any thoughts on this?
Could be a united effort by INTERPOL. But I definitely believe it is government / law-enforcement related, especially considering they even attacked the forums a couple of times, to prevent us members from communicating with each other.
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If the extortion attempt is real and not just someone tryign to take advantage of the situation, that would explain the motive. If that's not the case, that the only motives that makes sense would be those of competing markets. Sometimes people do stuff like this just to troll. If that was the case it would be the most significant troll I have seen in some time on the interwebs.
well, there is also the concept that 'right' and 'wrong' are relative and it could be just another crusader. the classic weakness of anarchy is that 'might is right' and there are plenty of people who see us drug users and dealers (and SR) as 'bad' people doing 'bad' things. the only way to resolve an ethical position in such an environment is to fight it out... and leave me without good ganja in the meantime :(
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My current guesses/thinking is either:
Wealthy ignorant "conservative" American freedom-hater(s). Probably thinks he or she or they are doing "God's work". Using this effort to make themselves feel better about some other bad shit they are responsible for and know down deep they can never make up for.
OR
Someone trying to have a small affect on Bitcoin Prices for short-term trading advantages.
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What affect would hurting SR have on BTC prices?
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What affect would hurting SR have on BTC prices?
I think this softens the short-term Btc demand due to psychological worries about a chunk of Bitcoin-using-markets stability being lost and partly by stopping SR buyers from needing to buy Bitcoins.
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I don't think this is being done by a government. If any government was doing this, they would surely target the other onion markets and the onion cp sites as well. They would also hit much harder, play dirtier, and use higher level tactics like trying to locate the SR server.
Unless the other onion market(s) were run by them.
Government operations must always be considered and with Obama's expansion of offensive cyber-weaponry via executive order a few months ago, government black-ops must be considered as even more a possibility.
A case can certainly be made that the recent DOS attacks on BitInstant, Bitfloor, MtGox, BitStamp, etc. and the recent continued attacks against Silk Road, Tormail, and the banks now closing the accounts of Bitfloor, Bitcopioa (and who knows how long before BST goes down) could all be part of a coordinated government effort to make using the road difficult-to-impossible.
I don't know the numbers, but I'm sure Silk Road's userbase is growing by leaps and bounds on a regular basis. Government must stop it before it goes completely mainstream. This makes the Road top priority, above all other "illegal underground websites." (including cp) When you have high-profile US Senators like Chucky Shumer publicly calling for action, expect action.
And from what DPR has revealed, the past two attacks have been sophisticated. I would speculate that these are the types of attacks that might be carried out by government hired hackers.
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Here's my own analysis based on the somewhat scarce info we have so far. First, this is the info I think is pertinent (please feel free to quote me and add any other info you think is relevant):
- Two (or more?) DoS attacks on SR fairly close together for fairly sustained periods of time, though not more that a few days.
- No-one has come forward to claim responsibility yet apart from a few obvious fakes
- Similar attacks at similar times (though less severe for less time) on Tormail and SR forum
- *Possibly* linked DoS attacks on various Bitcoin sites
- No similar attacks on SR's competition; BMR & Atlantis (AFAIK)
So, who's set to profit and how can this info be linked? Firstly, I don't think the Bitcoin attacks are linked; there are all kinds of reasons for attacking BTC apart from SR as it's a threat to every central banking system on the planet, plus they're not on TOR so it's a different kind of attack. I'm not even sure the Tormail attack is linked; although at similar times, the attacks do not seem to be choreographed at all.
Secondly, I don't think it's the competition in the form of BMR or Atlantis. Why? Because they have as much to lose from this kind of attack, as any market-share they build up could be lost just as easily as SR could lose theirs from this attack. All it does is show that this kind of TOR hidden service can be disrupted, which is not in the best interests of either competitor.
Thirdly, I don't think it's LE, for all the reasons already stated; it doesn't help them at all and they have nothing to gain from such a secret and ultimately fruitless action.
So who else is set to gain? Street dealers. Organized crime. For decades they've had a monopoly on drugs distribution and it has been their principle cash-cow ever since prohibition ended and casinos were legitimatized. Hell, even prostitution is starting to go mainstream - I've seen the reality shows of those Bunny Ranches, and you would not believe some of the areas of Frankfurt! Where else other than narcotics can they make such serious sums? And it's not just the direct market share SR et al are elbowing in on (though I imagine that's significant and growing), but the way it pushes up quality; in the old model you knew the dealer or two in your area and you had to buy from them, so the local suppliers could cut everything as much as they wanted and the product could be as poor as they like and what you gonna do about it? On SR there are reviews and options, so competition pushes up quality (one reason I prefer it). This means that organized-crime needs to up quality to compete, further hitting profits. And any criminal mafia-style organization wouldn't need to take credit for the attack, all they would need to do is make online dealing unstable enough to drive people back to street-dealing.
So, I think it's probably some kind of traditional drug-supply syndicate - mafia or some such - trying to protect their own business. Traditionally they would try a broken knee-cap or head or two, but online they are reduced to DoSing....