Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Dread Pirate Roberts on March 21, 2013, 02:03 am
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I've been informed that some vendors are attempting to form a cartel. In such an arrangement, they would agree on what price to charge so they can charge more than they would be able to if they were competing with each other. Another vendor has re-posted their plans in order to warn the community at large of the plan. There are two things I'd like to say about this:
1) Up until now, it has been our policy to delete any reposts from the vendor roundtable in order to preserve the privacy of that forum. Because it is nearly impossible to prevent the reposter from creating new accounts and reposting over and over, we will no longer attempt to control this behavior. This will just be a limitation of the vendor roundtable and vendors should act accordingly.
2) Cartels are nearly impossible to maintain without the use of violence, especially in an environment as competitive as Silk Road. There is also nothing morally wrong with them. If a cartel were to form, I would not attempt to break it up unless its members were breaking other rules. If you want an explanation for why cartels are nearly impossible to maintain in a free market environment, please read "Man, Economy and State" chapter 10, part 2, section D.
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Nicely played, my hat is off to you. :)
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I saw the posting about the price fixing and thought that was a hoot. It costs $500 to get a vendor account. The new guy with the new account would really like to make the $500 back and then some. No one knows who this new guy is so there is 0 enforcement potential for price fixing. Might last a while at a time and power to the vendors. We all know where the street is if things get too expensive. Doesn't mater how high you fix a price if you aren't selling anything.
Glad you replied to this though, sure lots of people get scared when they hear stuff like that.
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2) Cartels are nearly impossible to maintain without the use of violence, especially in an environment as competitive as Silk Road. There is also nothing morally wrong with them. If a cartel were to form, I would not attempt to break it up unless its members were breaking other rules. If you want an explanation for why cartels are nearly impossible to maintain in a free market environment, please read "Man, Economy and State" chapter 10, part 2, section D.
Or, for the a less literate illustration, rewatch some choice episodes from The Wire, Dallas, Miami Vice, or go play some GTA... Do no one learn anything from TV shows and video games anymore ?
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Great way to handle the situation, or maybe the only way you can. Wasn't sure we would hear from you on something like this.
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Business, as usual.
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I think this is rather kind of a joke. "Cartels" I mean come on there are so many different and independent vendors that there will always be cheaper prices. Cheaper prices moves more product. Like DPR mentioned we operate on not only a free but anonymous market. If you have enough of the product for sale you will always have buyers. I say let them form their little monopolies. By X number of vendors forming at certain prices this just makes it easier for me to find the cheapest reliable vendors who actually stayed true which there will be very few of.
Then there is always the forums so the truly intelligent people traveling on the road. I check here for the cheapest prices, quality, stealth ect. already so this won't be affected in any way.
Do these people not realize that by forming groups under set prices they will only take away from their own sales. Why would you use different vendors when they are all one set price, you are going to establish who is the best and always use them... Every time, same product, same price, same vendor. This means all of the other vendors that also have their prices at this level will just simply be losing. There will be an alpha vendor for each drug and since everyone prices are the same people will flock to the alpha. Then all of the other monopoly vendors will have fucked themselves out of their own business.
But this won't happen because there will always be the smaller/newer vendors that are coming with better product and cheaper prices each coming day. The MDMA market will be unaffected especially since if it fluctuates too high someone will just mass synthesize some good quality stuff at a price way below others. With other drugs like coke, heroin, meth, I assume most vendors get their product or at least the base materials from the same relative people. This would allow for an easier fixed price to be established. But since MDMA can always be synthesized personally I don't see a fixed price...
Cannabis will clearly not be affected due to the over inflation of it on the road, pharmaceuticals as well... Although I do see opiates becoming fixed as they already are.
Other things like Ketamine and Acid will always be among the cheaper things but not so high in quantity, and definitely not too many reliable vendors.
As I see it the drugs I dabble in aren't affected by these monopolies forming so quite frankly I am ready to see how this will turn out!
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A cartel will never continue to survive when 1 person is bringing in more profits than another person, after all why give up your larger profit for no gain?
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Politics politics every which way I look today... (subbing)
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<3, do work son, love the transparency.
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I guess it's the only approach that could work, collusion happens behind the scenes anyway, just this vendor decided to openly bring it up. There really is no way to prevent it.
We're lucky to have access to an open market instead of a small local market that would be subject to the same price collusion anyway.
Vote with your money, if you don't like the price, don't buy. It's that simple.
The concerning thing is if they start colluding on quality as well as price.
Plus this gives the little guys a chance to make a name for themselves and keep the "cartel' honest.
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+1 @Dread Pirate Roberts for the passive-aggressive intellectual leadership. Cartel smartel, carry on. Business as usual.
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A Cartel forming is just what this place needs to get on the radar of every 'other' agency that doesn't monitor this place yet.
They've got a golden goose laying golden fucking eggs and they want to eat it...
This place is the best thing that's ever happened in the history of drugs for buyers AND vendors alike....wtf
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It must be borne in mind that SR isn't a free market by any means. It is a black market. And it isn't even an ordinary black market. Actually it's just a small part of a black market that is operated as some kind of 'market' monarchy run by the SR owners.
So, the slogan "cartels can't exist in a free-market!!!!" isn't too relevant here.
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Fuck it!! i will pay my bills by any means !!!! :P
if it wasnt for SR i would be in some homeless shelter...and i dont think my wife would like that!! LOL
we're in this circle...well i believe that within our circle there will be an inner circle..cartel or not...you all are here for a reason...
be it medical reasons or just stoner reasons.... cartel or not..i have a family to support....so dont go anywhere @ DPR!!! LOL
As well....my hat is off to you DPR and many thanks from my family to yours!
Honestly, before i found this place i thought of robbin banks :o
DPR...Let your Child Grow!!
Thank You for what You Do!!
Peace,
ChemCat
O0
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Shit if the Amish have a mafia I expected Silk Road to have some cartels.
8)
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Shit if the Amish have a mafia I expected Silk Road to have some cartels.
8)
LMMFAO
;D
damn now i cant remember that guys name.....OMG!! Levi!! damnit bruce are you Levi? LOL :-*
Those amish do as they do ... Gotta Luv 'Em LOL
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I think I had a couple of vendors contact me trying to be a supplier or to become chummy awhile back. Seems a bit like an oxymoron though.
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Re: cartel formation and the vendor forum
« Reply #17 on: Today at 07:09 am »
I think I had a couple of vendors contact me trying to be a supplier or to become chummy awhile back. Seems a bit like an oxymoron though.
Stay in the Saddle My Friend.
We're revolutionairies!!!!
Peace,
ChemCat
O0
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How in the fuck does a cartel operating on an anonymous market enforce any of their rules? Attempt to DDoS the new guy selling for $10 cheaper? Buy their smaller quantities so they can leave 1/5 feedback? Sounds like a totally worthless plan, but maybe I'm missing something here...
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A Cartel forming is just what this place needs to get on the radar of every 'other' agency that doesn't monitor this place yet.
They've got a golden goose laying golden fucking eggs and they want to eat it...
This place is the best thing that's ever happened in the history of drugs for buyers AND vendors alike....wtf
LOL. the cracked me up! DPR didn't mean a cartel being formed as in the violent Mexican/South American drug cartels! He meant cartel in the economic definition, which is:"a formal "agreement" among competing firms. It is a formal organization of producers and manufacturers that agree to fix prices, marketing, and production."
A bunch of vendors are not coming together to form the TOR version of Pablo Escobar's outfit!
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Who were these particular vendors? As so we may laugh at them.
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Shit if the Amish have a mafia I expected Silk Road to have some cartels.
8)
Lol yea, gotta love the thuggish, ruggish Amish.
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The post from DPR really brought this situation into perspective for me today. Economics, especially on cartels, was really not one of my strong suits in graduate school. I'm not sure many people can invoke a response from DPR so I think putting up my soapbox is in order, my work here is complete. All I wanted to do was keep the dialogue a live so the community could have an honest debate over the subject matter. If anyone hasn't had a chance to read DPR's recommendation and would like to, here it is:
D. THE INSTABILITY OF THE CARTEL
Analysis demonstrates that a cartel is an inherently unstable
form of operation. If the joint pooling of assets in a common
cause proves in the long run to be profitable for each of the
individual members of the cartel, then they will act formally to
merge into one large firm. The cartel then disappears in the
merger. On the other hand, if the joint action proves unprofitable
for one or more members, the dissatisfied firm or firms
will break away from the cartel, and, as we shall see, any such
independent action almost always destroys the cartel. The cartel
form, therefore, is bound to be highly evanescent and unstable.
If joint action is the most efficient and profitable course for
each member, a merger will soon take place. The very fact that
each member firm retains its potential independence in the cartel
means that a breakup could take place at any time. The cartel
will have to assign production totals and quotas to each of
the member firms. This is likely to lead first to a good deal of
bickering among the firms over the assignment of quotas, with
each member attempting to gain a larger share of the assignment.
Whatever basis quotas are assigned on will necessarily be
arbitrary and will always be subject to challenge by one or more
members.13 In a merger, or in the formation of one corporation,
the stockholders, by majority vote, form a decision-making
organization. In the case of a cartel, however, disputes arise
among independent owning entities.
Particularly likely to be restive under the imposed joint
action will be the more efficient producers, who will be eager to
expand their business rather than be fettered by shackles and
quotas to provide shelter for their less efficient competitors.
Clearly, the more efficient firms will be the ones to break up the
cartel. This will be increasingly true as time goes on and conditions
change from the time the cartel was first formed. The
quotas, the jealously made agreements that formerly seemed
plausible to all, now become intolerable restrictions for the
more efficient firms, and the cartel soon breaks up; for once one
firm breaks away, expands output and cuts prices, the others
must follow.
If the cartel does not break up from within, it is even more
likely to do so from without. To the extent that it has earned
unusual monopoly profits, outside firms and outside producers
will enter the same field of production. Outsiders, in short, rush
in to take advantage of the higher profits. But once one strong
competitor arises to challenge it, the cartel is doomed. For as
the firms in the cartel are bound by production quotas, they
must watch new competitors expand and take away sales from
them at an accelerating rate. As a result, the cartel must break
up under the pressure of the newcomers’ competition.14
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And if the thread hasn't been re-posted yet I'm all ears, kept a copy and am happy to post for the masses to see.
Having not reading it, can't comment on whether you should re-post or not, but feel free to pm
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@ Petimus
+1 for posting the article.
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Were these vendors going to specialize in any one drug or were they going to try to have a monopoly on multiple drugs? If so which drug/s? It would be easy for a lot of the West Coast weed vendors to form some sort of cartel I would think. They can go right ahead, there are many other vendors on the road with product at great prices.
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Were these vendors going to specialize in any one drug or were they going to try to have a monopoly on multiple drugs? If so which drug/s? It would be easy for a lot of the West Coast weed vendors to form some sort of cartel I would think. They can go right ahead, there are many other vendors on the road with product at great prices.
It was supposed to be a cartel for cocaine.
I posted much the same thing as DPR on the thread that was deleted. A cartel cannot work. Since a cartel cannot work, I am not worried about it at all.
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It was supposed to be a cartel for cocaine.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!! What, are these vendors children, trying to emulate what they see on TV? As if Mixy wasn't already going to kill cocaine, these ragamuffins want to put the nail in the coffin.
Could someone name the names, so I may laugh harder at their expense?
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Thank you moksha, that was hilarious. Do you have the username of the original poster from the vendors' forum?
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Respect for how you managed that DPR...
BG
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No DDOS - Any vendor who doesn't co-operate with said cartels new pricing plans, will have negative feedback left on their account by other cartel member vendors posing as buyers.
This is dodgy, but un-avoidable.
Any vendor who takes part in this should be shot with a stinking ball of their own shit.
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This is as darknet as the darknet gets.
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No DDOS - Any vendor who doesn't co-operate with said cartels new pricing plans, will have negative feedback left on their account by other cartel member vendors posing as buyers.
This is dodgy, but un-avoidable.
Any vendor who takes part in this should be shot with a stinking ball of their own shit.
This is true. And I agree that it can't work long term, however no one seems to be discussing the short term effects of it. What could a new vendor do to battle it? Use the forums extensively? You would have to build your reputation from the forums and I don't know the the majority of buyers actually ever come here. Do they?
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They aren't actually going to be using 'dirty' techniques.
It's just an agreement that all vendors in the cartel, do everything fairly. Same marketing, same pricing and so on.
Just so everything is fairer for them.
**At least I think it's like that anyway**
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This is very interesting. I'd like to believe there are still vendors that have a minimum of ethics. I think choice is what makes this place go around.
Aren't most vendors already too busy doing their thing and relatively satisfied by the profits? One or two people might join forces, but if everyone does there is no game... ever played risk?
This is pretty analogous to the real economy, you have big corporations trying to standardize the supply and increase their market share, but there are also loads of alternatives and people who don't give in.
The advantage of being anonymous grants the individual the power to set up shop without risking his life unlike the in the streets. If coke gets monopolized by a few on SR, there will always be a smart kid with a good supply in for a buck at some point. And this forum is essential for guaranteeing "fair trade".
And the bottom line is SR is a tiny fraction of the drug trade. If shit gets too expensive I'll just work it the old fashion way. Mind you I only buy on SR if I can't find locally.
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its supply demand duh
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no shit Alfred ;)
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As a supposed "founding member" of the "cartel" I can tell you that getting drug dealers to do your bidding is akin to herding cats.
Allow ne to be more specific:
THERE ARE NO CARTELS!!!
Jeez are you guys freaking out or what?
This is like when SR goes down and we don't hear from DPR for a day or two - everyone loses their shit.
LOL
It's a free market people. Buy o don't buy, you are the only ones in charge.
Modzi
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LOL founding member. Don Modziw Corleone. This entire cartel fiasco is hilarious man. I can see the next Gawker article already... "Infamous Online Drug Marketplace Silk Road and the Cartel Connection", and then fuckin Senator Charles Shumer just shitting enough bricks to build a mansion.. "i wanted this ebay of narcotics shut down.. but now they've become a powerful drug cartel!"
Sorry Chuck
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Oh fuck I just figured it all out! THE CARTEL HAD TONY76 WHACKED! He must have been planning to leak their nefarious plans onto this forum so the cartel got to him..
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LOL founding member. Don Modziw Corleone. This entire cartel fiasco is hilarious man. I can see the next Gawker article already... "Infamous Online Drug Marketplace Silk Road and the Cartel Connection", and then fuckin Senator Charles Shumer just shitting enough bricks to build a mansion.. "i wanted this ebay of narcotics shut down.. but now they've become a powerful drug cartel!"
Sorry Chuck
LOL
You have made the Don laugh. Don't do it too often...
Modzi
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Simply focusing on defining terms such as cartel, glosses over the actual issue that people are upset about. The idea of vendors colluding to gouge prices and that particular type of discussion would be allowed to proceed in private, unbeknownst to SR customers, without any moderation to speak of while the user forums are heavily policed of dissident chatter. DPR can be as didactic as he wants in his responses, but it will not address the issue that if vendors are allowed to so brazenly attempt to tip the scales in their favor unfairly. And do so in private, directly facilitated by the SR vendor forums without any accountability, while our own discussion into this matter is quickly locked by a moderator that undermines the fragile, tacit trust and understanding that needs to exist for people to feel confident about coming here and not getting dicked around with.
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Nice work!
Turns out DPR offers these great but expensive tuition lessons in econ. At least these guys are living vicariously, there is that thrill of feeling extra clever I suppose. Good luck with all that.
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Nice work!
Turns out DPR offers these great but expensive tuition lessons in econ. At least these guys are living vicariously, there is that thrill of feeling extra clever I suppose. Good luck with all that.
Welcome back?
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Nice work!
Turns out DPR offers these great but expensive tuition lessons in econ. At least these guys are living vicariously, there is that thrill of feeling extra clever I suppose. Good luck with all that.
Welcome back?
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Yes, I'm really pine and I'm back! How do you do Scout! :)
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As a vendor who's game is always to enter a market and provide the highest quality product at the lowest price this sounds fine to me for them to do. I'll just keep doing what I"m doing and we shall see who has more luck. I bet my margins are still as good or better then theirs.
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Welcome Back @ pine 8)
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Simply focusing on defining terms such as cartel, glosses over the actual issue that people are upset about. The idea of vendors colluding to gouge prices and that particular type of discussion would be allowed to proceed in private, unbeknownst to SR customers, without any moderation to speak of while the user forums are heavily policed of dissident chatter. DPR can be as didactic as he wants in his responses, but it will not address the issue that if vendors are allowed to so brazenly attempt to tip the scales in their favor unfairly. And do so in private, directly facilitated by the SR vendor forums without any accountability, while our own discussion into this matter is quickly locked by a moderator that undermines the fragile, tacit trust and understanding that needs to exist for people to feel confident about coming here and not getting dicked around with.
Nice work!
Yes, I'm really pine and I'm back! How do you do Scout! :)
Firstly, Holy crap! It's Pine! It's like talking to the burning bush!
Finally a topic good enough to draw both DPR and Pine to comment. It's better than the burning bush, it's like God is talking and Jesus chimes in too, "Yeah Dad - you tell them bitches..."
So yes as Scout said, welcome back Pine :) (BTW things have not improved i your absence).
Regarding the post above from dipstick (JK)
Your "you miss the point" post misses the poiint. DPR runs a freedom loving site here. He does not interfere unless substantial danger is afoot (like closing the Armory). The censorship you speak of was not censorship of discussion here in the non-vendor forum. Non-vendors may discuss all they want. The actions taken were due to someone breaking the rules, namely copying information posted in confidence on the vendor only forum to the non-vendor area.
Now you may say that this was a "whistle blower" (more like a Julian Assange dick licker if you ask me) but he was breaking the rules regarding the proper actions of a vendor. We vendors need a safe place where we can strategizse and educate and protect vendors from the darker side of the Darknet.
So as to assuage customer fears I have made many posts regarding price fixing. I have tried to point out how rambunctious vendors are and how difficult it would be to keep them in line (like herding cats). I have openly discussed the actual conversation that lead to this outcry pointing out that it was in my case between only three vendors who obviously could never "corner the market" on anything.
There are far too mny vendors selling far too many products for anyone to ever form a cartel in anything here on SR. For those not familiar let me repeat an oft quoted phrase in the commodities markets: “The cure for high prices is, high prices.” Fear not my young drug addicts, your shit will be expensive, but never more than you can afford. This is proven by my own quote: "If you can't afford it, you're about to quit."
Modzi
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Fear not my young drug addicts, your shit will be expensive, but never more than you can afford.
I love this.
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Fear not my young drug addicts, your shit will be expensive, but never more than you can afford.
I love this.
+1 brother. I love anyone who loves my shit. Plus you love it because you are an old drug addict (Arm Tracks LOL).
Modzi
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Another + for ya @ modzi
Peace,
ChemCat
8)
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Cartel is my favorite word
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Your "you miss the point" post misses the poiint. DPR runs a freedom loving site here. He does not interfere unless substantial danger is afoot (like closing the Armory). The censorship you speak of was not censorship of discussion here in the non-vendor forum. Non-vendors may discuss all they want. The actions taken were due to someone breaking the rules, namely copying information posted in confidence on the vendor only forum to the non-vendor area.
"He does not interfere"
"Actions taken due to someone breaking the rules..."
Maybe it's just me, the consumer, but this is obviously a contradiction in my eyes. DPR, while I appreciate this service and will continue to use it, is human. I don't know the guy. So I'm going to assume since he's running a black market, he isn't above allowing stuff like this for a cut. To assume otherwise is absolutely foolish in my opinion. Always assume someone is trying to fuck you over.
The point that people keep making about "oh it will never work" isn't the point. The point is it was allowed to be discussed openly about how to rip off consumers. Plain and simple. You can dress it up however you want, but there it is. The capitalist system in its full glory.
All that said, it won't change anything for me. I just don't agree that "it's not a big deal" or whatever kind of BS DPR or anyone else "high up" want to sell. I agree that it wouldn't work and I appreciate DPR taking the time to address it. Vendors even attempting to collude is a "substantial danger" in my book. Obviously to a vendor it would not be.
Don't believe everything even DPR tells you people. Think for yourself.
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Simply focusing on defining terms such as cartel, glosses over the actual issue that people are upset about. The idea of vendors colluding to gouge prices and that particular type of discussion would be allowed to proceed in private, unbeknownst to SR customers, without any moderation to speak of while the user forums are heavily policed of dissident chatter. DPR can be as didactic as he wants in his responses, but it will not address the issue that if vendors are allowed to so brazenly attempt to tip the scales in their favor unfairly. And do so in private, directly facilitated by the SR vendor forums without any accountability, while our own discussion into this matter is quickly locked by a moderator that undermines the fragile, tacit trust and understanding that needs to exist for people to feel confident about coming here and not getting dicked around with.
And that is exactly what DPR addressed while posting. Yes it happens, who cares, it won't work.
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Welcome Back @ pine 8)
Firstly, Holy crap! It's Pine! It's like talking to the burning bush!
Finally a topic good enough to draw both DPR and Pine to comment. It's better than the burning bush, it's like God is talking and Jesus chimes in too, "Yeah Dad - you tell them bitches..."
So yes as Scout said, welcome back Pine :) (BTW things have not improved i your absence).
LOL! Thanks guys ;)
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wow!!
:o
heavy shit man!!
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Your "you miss the point" post misses the poiint. DPR runs a freedom loving site here. He does not interfere unless substantial danger is afoot (like closing the Armory). The censorship you speak of was not censorship of discussion here in the non-vendor forum. Non-vendors may discuss all they want. The actions taken were due to someone breaking the rules, namely copying information posted in confidence on the vendor only forum to the non-vendor area.
"He does not interfere"
"Actions taken due to someone breaking the rules..."
Maybe it's just me, the consumer, but this is obviously a contradiction in my eyes. DPR, while I appreciate this service and will continue to use it, is human. I don't know the guy. So I'm going to assume since he's running a black market, he isn't above allowing stuff like this for a cut. To assume otherwise is absolutely foolish in my opinion. Always assume someone is trying to fuck you over.
The point that people keep making about "oh it will never work" isn't the point. The point is it was allowed to be discussed openly about how to rip off consumers. Plain and simple. You can dress it up however you want, but there it is. The capitalist system in its full glory.
All that said, it won't change anything for me. I just don't agree that "it's not a big deal" or whatever kind of BS DPR or anyone else "high up" want to sell. I agree that it wouldn't work and I appreciate DPR taking the time to address it. Vendors even attempting to collude is a "substantial danger" in my book. Obviously to a vendor it would not be.
Don't believe everything even DPR tells you people. Think for yourself.
See, you are still not getting the point. All the collusion and cartel formation in the world cannot change the fact that those guys cannot force anyone to give them their BTC. Every transaction made on here is a purchaser willingly giving up their money for a product. I do not think that the folks selling the product getting their thoughts together on how to maximize their earning potential is wrong. It may suck because you might have to end up paying more for what you want, but if it goes to a point beyond what you are willing to pay for, no one is going to force you to buy it.
There is an old saying, "never charge more than what the market can bare" and it applies here as much as anywhere else. The job of someone in business is to find out what that point is and make as much money as possible.
I want the vendors here to make money, because if they didn't we would not have access to their products. They cannot collect more than we are willing to spend.
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That's true and I get that. What about the one, two, or however many vendors they give 1/5 feedback to that refused to participate? I understand that didn't happen and most likely won't, but the option is there. That person is basically fucked out of their $500 account and will have to open a new account due to nothing more than a group of people trying to squeeze a few more bucks out of people. I understand it's the way of the world and there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop it. That doesn't make it ok or right though. And trying to pretend that is does my referencing market forces is not cool in my book.
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2) Cartels are nearly impossible to maintain without the use of violence, especially in an environment as competitive as Silk Road. There is also nothing morally wrong with them. If a cartel were to form, I would not attempt to break it up unless its members were breaking other rules. If you want an explanation for why cartels are nearly impossible to maintain in a free market environment, please read "Man, Economy and State" chapter 10, part 2, section D.
I think the UK weed scene on SR could be effected by a cartel.
The reason is that there are very few weed vendors operating from the UK. This means that they are not in a state if perfect competition. This is the reason that UK weed prices on SR are roughly double the street price for a similar product. Prices don't seem to be coming down at all, which means that obviously its selling. This in turn means that there is no incentive for a new vendor to undercut the going rate.
If there were 1000 domestic sellers for each drug in each country then we would be close to perfect competition and it would be difficult for anyone to price-fix. However this is not the case in something like the UK weed market where there are only a handful of vendors, thus the current situation is more akin to a state of oligopoly. Governments imposed price-fixing regulations are mainly targeted at industries in a state of oligopoly because when a few people control a market, it is very easy to price-fix.
What this is showing is that there are portions of SR where current conditions are such that a cartel could indeed price-fix.
If you disagree then please explain why it is that the UK weed prices (not including P+P which are billed separately) are twice that of street prices for similar quality product. Why are new vendors not charging significantly less? In a state of perfect competition we should be seeing prices come in line with the street value. As this is not happening we can only conclude that the weed market of SR is no where near a state of perfect competition and thus cartels could thrive.
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2) Cartels are nearly impossible to maintain without the use of violence, especially in an environment as competitive as Silk Road. There is also nothing morally wrong with them. If a cartel were to form, I would not attempt to break it up unless its members were breaking other rules. If you want an explanation for why cartels are nearly impossible to maintain in a free market environment, please read "Man, Economy and State" chapter 10, part 2, section D.
I think the UK weed scene on SR could be effected by a cartel.
The reason is that there are very few weed vendors operating from the UK. This means that they are not in a state if perfect competition. This is the reason that UK weed prices on SR are roughly double the street price for a similar product. Prices don't seem to be coming down at all, which means that obviously its selling. This in turn means that there is no incentive for a new vendor to undercut the going rate.
If there were 1000 domestic sellers for each drug in each country then we would be close to perfect competition and it would be difficult for anyone to price-fix. However this is not the case in something like the UK weed market where there are only a handful of vendors, thus the current situation is more akin to a state of oligopoly. Governments imposed price-fixing regulations are mainly targeted at industries in a state of oligopoly because when a few people control a market, it is very easy to price-fix.
What this is showing is that there are portions of SR where current conditions are such that a cartel could indeed price-fix.
If you disagree then please explain why it is that the UK weed prices (not including P+P which are billed separately) are twice that of street prices for similar quality product. Why are new vendors not charging significantly less? In a state of perfect competition we should be seeing prices come in line with the street value. As this is not happening we can only conclude that the weed market of SR is no where near a state of perfect competition and thus cartels could thrive.
Street prices for cannabis in the UK as far as I am aware are around £200-240/oz for bad quality 'cheese'.
My prices are pretty much that without even adjusting for how much I lose from escrow hedging and laundering. When I sell Oz's I have been selling them for upper end street prices but my product is significantly better. I have cleaned up.
There is a lack of supply in the UK, most growing is done by Vietnamese gangs/Triad members and they grow shit. There is simply a huge demand and not enough growers. Also, have you seen the cost of living lately? Fuck me the UK is expensive and I barely make minimum wage!
You are correct though, you could come in and charge ridiculous prices and clean up, that is nothing to do with cartels, it is simply a supply/demand issue.
Can everyone in England PLEASE GROW MORE POT! I'M TRYING BUT I CAN'T KEEP UP!!!!!
Jah Bless
The Doctor
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Street prices for cannabis in the UK as far as I am aware are around £200-240/oz for bad quality 'cheese'.
I wouldn't say its bad quality at that price, nor would I say that the vast majority of UK weed on SR is incredibly good. If there is a difference between the quality of weed that I have obtained SR compared to in RL then the difference is marginal at best.
You are correct though, you could come in and charge ridiculous prices and clean up, that is nothing to do with cartels, it is simply a supply/demand issue.
The term cartel is used loosely as there is no way to enforce the agreement, however as soon as an established vendor contacts a new vendor and says "dont sell so cheap" then we have a cartel... its price-fixing. Cartels only exist in markets with a supply/demand issue, cartels do not exist in markets close to perfect competition. My point was that DPR states that cartels are almost impossible to maintain in a free market, and as its DPR the implication is that SR is operating as free market but there are vast sections of SR that are not operating as a free market due to a lack of sellers.
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I absolutely agree, the situation is pretty dire and there needs to be more sellers, I can't do all the work!
Sorry I was a little flippant before, I just get a little bit frustrated because there is a serious grower shortage in the UK, that is what leads to the price. In my experience the price also does not reflect quality, an Oz is and Oz regardless of the quality, this may be somewhat different nowadays but it used to be a lot more like that.
My experience of street weed in this country in the last few years is limited but from the few dealers I know the quality has been gradually dropping, nowadays people just say it's 'blues' or 'cheese' because then people will pay more. I honestly cannot speak for the quality of weed on SR but mine is very good, it isn't your average dealer weed as I think my customers would attest to. I am fairly expensive but I work fucking hard and my takehome wage doesn't really justify the amount of work I do, and that includes continually educating myself on growing, making concentrates, edibles, etc.
The great thing about weed is that everyone can be easily self sufficient for minimal work and cost, I would like more people to grow and then there never could be pricefixing. I'm also happy to help people learn, feel free to ask if you want to get started.
For what it's worth nobody has contacted me about prices, and if they did I would tell them to FUCK OFF. I work for me, thats why I do what I do.
When I started growing I used to sell at £140/oz and I felt that was overpriced at the time, of course it wasn't as good as it is now but it was cheap.
I think the Australian market demonstrates how badly an isolated market can be inflated by demand outstripping supply but as far as I am aware it is not an issue of pricefixing amongst competitors and more because the individual sellers will make as much as they possibly can through incremental price increasing.
Weed cartels will always be hard to organise in a sustained fashion because independant growers can come along and undercut more easily than they can with say heroin or cocaine. That said I really do understand what you are saying, there are very few UK cannabis vendors and very high prices. What there is tends to be imported outdoor weed of variable quality.
Jah Bless
The Doctor
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@DoctorNoname
I think we are pretty much on the same wave length here.
I agree that quality and price aren't really linked, there becomes an established price and although quality may cause the price to fluctuate, it tends to fluctuate around the going rate.. i.e. a few weeks ago a mate sold me some sub par week in RL, the first words out of his mouth were along the lines of "its not fantastic but Ill do it at £7 a gram"
I guess maybe the weed in my area might be a bit better than the national average, but even the bad weed is OK and often comes with a bit of a discount. I have never had "bad" weed off SR but I have had a lot that is pretty similar to what I get in RL.
The one thing that I do like about SR is the choice, having smoked for years I guess you reach a certain age where you start becoming a bit of a Connoisseur. In RL there usually isnt much in the way of a choice as dealers tend to have only one strain at any one time and often it isn't what they say it is (although I don't think that's a scam I think they just buy whats going at the time and if someone mentions a name then that's what they call it).
Whats your Vendor name? PM me if its not something you want to post and Ill have a look at what you are selling. Doctornoname isnt one I remember and I just checked the first few pages of UK only weed and didnt see you.
All the best
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I'm kind of new, I only started trading about a week ago, my seller page is linked at the bottom of my posts. I'm probably pretty low in the UK weed rankings because I've sold out of oz's and halves which went quickly.
You're right about it not being malicious the way they name weed, either nobody bothers to ask growers or they just don't care so the imformation is lost. Although the Asian grows tend to be cheap KC Brains strains if I'm not mistaken.
I think we need to get Britain growing, that way they will learn just how terrible British commercial weed actually is. I look at more growers as giving me a more educated customer base, I love nothing more than selling to growers because they appreciate quality the most. There is something honorable about having someone who never pays for weed buy some of yours.
Also more growers means lower prices which would mean that I could start buying occasionaly!
Jah Bless
The Doctor
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I think that this was simply a transparency issue, DPR was simply letting us know that the ship is sailing smoothly and addressing a lot of member concerns regarding collusion. Cheers DPR!
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If anyone knows, who were the vendors?
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My concern would be the members of this "cartel" all work together to destroy the feedback of the people who weren't in on it i.e. the competition. This is the only way I can foresee it becoming an issue.
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I don't think Chapo Guzman, The Rothschild Banking Dynasty and the Russian Government would agree there DPR!
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@Buster39
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=136090.0
Nod with the bitchin tar - is the one that wrote the post.
Quite a few other vendors said they were interested but have not YET been named.
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2) Cartels are nearly impossible to maintain without the use of violence, especially in an environment as competitive as Silk Road. There is also nothing morally wrong with them. If a cartel were to form, I would not attempt to break it up unless its members were breaking other rules. If you want an explanation for why cartels are nearly impossible to maintain in a free market environment, please read "Man, Economy and State" chapter 10, part 2, section D.
Some people think that I use SR for the drugs: False. I use SR for the Rothbardian economic references.